Michelle Wie Kicking It Up Right Now

[NaptownChief]

She has birdied 3 of her first 5 holes today to move to 4 under...A lot of holes left to play in order to make the cut but certainly putting herself in a good position early.

[Merlin]

What is truly amazing is her age, 15!.

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

Saw her at the Women's Open a last week. She along with several others are amazing, but they all blew up at Cherry Hills and it took a lucky shot out of the trap to win it for Birdie.

[NaptownChief]

What is truly amazing is her age, 15!.



She is amazing...Her talent is obvious and outstanding but there are other really young players with nearly as much talent but really sets her apart is her mental ability to handle big time pressure and spot light. There are other 15 and 16 year olds that can and do beat her but you put them out there on a stage like this and they would lock up and shot 100.

[DB-Freak]

BWAAAA I wouldn't really call golf a talent game, but she is pretty talented.

Physical tool don't really matter too much.

Intangibles baby intangibles.

[NaptownChief]

BWAAAA I wouldn't really call golf a talent game, but she is pretty talented.

Physical tool don't really matter too much.

Intangibles baby intangibles.



Only thing that tells me is you don't play the game much....It is much tougher to hit a golf ball well than a baseball and most other things in sport. Many people could spend a couple weeks pounding golf balls at a range and never hit a single ball well.

[DBroncos4life]

Her and Tiger should have kids.

[yavoon]

gogo michelle! I hate those ppl who say she shouldn't be here competing that she sould be beating other 15 year olds by 10-20 strokes on inferior golf courses.

go michelle!

[yavoon]

She is amazing...Her talent is obvious and outstanding but there are other really young players with nearly as much talent but really sets her apart is her mental ability to handle big time pressure and spot light. There are other 15 and 16 year olds that can and do beat her but you put them out there on a stage like this and they would lock up and shot 100.

other 15 year olds can beat her on courses made for other 15 year olds. they would get TORCHED on pga tour events. only michelle w/ her length and maturity can handle them.

[yavoon]

Only thing that tells me is you don't play the game much....It is much tougher to hit a golf ball well than a baseball and most other things in sport. Many people could spend a couple weeks pounding golf balls at a range and never hit a single ball well.

u can actually get worse too, thats how hard and subtle golf is. just practicing isnt enough.

[RhymesayersDU]

BWAAAA I wouldn't really call golf a talent game, but she is pretty talented.

Physical tool don't really matter too much.

Intangibles baby intangibles.

This is so off-base it's not even funny. Golf takes talent, and physical tools do matter.

[NaptownChief]

gogo michelle! I hate those ppl who say she shouldn't be here competing that she sould be beating other 15 year olds by 10-20 strokes on inferior golf courses.

go michelle!



I agree...This will better prepare her than anything...handling pressure and confidence will be much stronger after this.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

It is much tougher to hit a golf ball well than a baseball and most other things in sport.

A little overboard with that statement. Hitting 95 mph fastballs, sliders, curve balls, etc... ranks right up there with the all time hardest things to do in sports.

[Master___Pain]

Her and Tiger should have kids.

And they could have a miger!!

http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/8753/migercopy6jg.jpg

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

And they could have a miger!!

http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/8753/migercopy6jg.jpg

Heard a doctor on the radio talking about how she will need to change that swing or she will have serious back problems by the time she is in her early 20's. He said that is why Tiger changed his swing.

[NaptownChief]

A little overboard with that statement. Hitting 95 mph fastballs, sliders, curve balls, etc... ranks right up there with the all time hardest things to do in sports.



That all depends if you want to compare apples to apples...Hitting a 95 mph fastball is hitting one of the best fastballs in the world which would equate to hitting one of the best drives in the world which would be around 350 yards. Which again would be much harder. I can drive the ball a pretty good distance and occassionally poke it over 300 yards but I have a much better chance of hitting 95 mph fastballs than I do hitting 350 yard drives and that is despite the fact I play golf almost every day and haven't played baseball in 10 years.

[Master___Pain]

Heard a doctor on the radio talking about how she will need to change that swing or she will have serious back problems by the time she is in her early 20's. He said that is why Tiger changed his swing.

The reverse C is death to backs. Especially as you get older and lose elasticity. Ask Fred Couples.

[yavoon]

The reverse C is death to backs. Especially as you get older and lose elasticity. Ask Fred Couples.

u know I believe this, and it makes sense. but there are ppl who play golf literally 5-8 hours a day 6 days a week from the time they're 14 till the time they're atleast 45. and they then go on to play golf less regularly till they're 70. and this is not just 1 or 2 lucky ppl.

of course others end up hurting their backs, but I just gotta wonder, a lot of ppl do a lot of golf and dont throw out their backs.

[Master___Pain]

u know I believe this, and it makes sense. but there are ppl who play golf literally 5-8 hours a day 6 days a week from the time they're 14 till the time they're atleast 45. and they then go on to play golf less regularly till they're 70. and this is not just 1 or 2 lucky ppl.

of course others end up hurting their backs, but I just gotta wonder, a lot of ppl do a lot of golf and dont throw out their backs.

The reverse C that some golfers have in their swings is very bad for thier backs. You wont see many weekend warrior golfers get in the position that Wie is in in the previous picture in this thread. It produces a huge amount of torque, hence the great distance that the golfers with the reverse C hit it. Many if not most PGA players are more upright in their finish and don't have the drastic reverse C that you see in Tiger old swing and in Wies.

[DB-Freak]

This is so off-base it's not even funny. Golf takes talent, and physical tools do matter.
What physical tools?

[Master___Pain]

What physical tools?

Tools?! You want tools? Here's your friggin tools.

http://images.pgatour.com/tournaments/britishopen/photos/img7455429.jpg

[Bronco_Beerslug]

That all depends if you want to compare apples to apples...Hitting a 95 mph fastball is hitting one of the best fastballs in the world which would equate to hitting one of the best drives in the world which would be around 350 yards. Which again would be much harder. I can drive the ball a pretty good distance and occassionally poke it over 300 yards but I have a much better chance of hitting 95 mph fastballs than I do hitting 350 yard drives and that is despite the fact I play golf almost every day and haven't played baseball in 10 years.

If you haven't swung a bat in 10 years you aren't going to hit major league pitching (or even if you have played) not very many pitches anyway and not many would have any kind of wood on them. I didn't start playing golf until I was 39. I don't play all that much but hit low to mid 80s. In Denver, I could drive 300 yds (sometimes a little longer) but only around 280 or 90 down here.
I find hitting a golf ball easier than hitting baseballs.

Ask Jacobsen how hard it is to hit a baseball :)

[DB-Freak]

Hand-eye coordination, concentration, consistency, decision making skills, adaptiveness, shot control.

Yes if you wanna talk about swing mechanics, you need an explosive and flexible torque.

[watermock]

She can do whatever she wants. If she makes the cut, fine. Defeating David Duval isn't earthshattering. It's just more media spin like Danica managing to take out half the field on race day. Talk about the dead zone. This time of year is terrible. We are discussing a 15 year old golfer? How about those White Sox?

Sassy is headed to Dove Valley to watch men in shorts, only to be turned away. Wabbit gives her a pass for "special consideration".

I'm ready for camp. The Cubs are still losing...8 in a row. Some things never change. Why the media still talks about the Cubs is a total mystery to me. The story is the White Sox, who have the best record in the majors.

[illbroncsfn]

I grew up in the Quad Cities and the TPC Deere course has gotten easier over time.

Still quite a feat for a 15 old women to be in contention at the turn- I know all the executives of the tourney couldn't be any happier...

[Bronco_Beerslug]

She can do whatever she wants. If she makes the cut, fine. Defeating David Duval isn't earthshattering. It's just more media spin like Danica managing to take out half the field on race day.

Sorry but if she makes the cut in the MENS tourney this is a story!!!!!!

4 holes to go, she's at -4 the cut is -3.
ESPN is carrying her last 4 holes.

[Taco John]

http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2005/writers/chris_lewis/07/06/inside.golf/tx_wie2.jpg

[gunns]

She can do whatever she wants. If she makes the cut, fine. Defeating David Duval isn't earthshattering. It's just more media spin like Danica managing to take out half the field on race day. Talk about the dead zone. This time of year is terrible. We are discussing a 15 year old golfer? How about those White Sox?

Someone having problems getting in touch with their feminine side today?

[Tredici]

The reverse C is death to backs. Especially as you get older and lose elasticity. Ask Fred Couples.

I'm not sure you can make the same comparison between men and women. Women have far more flexibility than men - due to less muscle mass. Especially in the shoulder and arm area.

You want an actual demonstration. Put on a bra and try to reach behind and fasten it. It's a move women do easily, but the majority of men can't even come close. -- Not kidding.

Just as she doesn't have the upper arm mass to throw a baseball like a man, you can't compare her upper arm and shoulder movements to a man, either.

[Sodak]

If you can smoke and drink while playing, it's not a sport.

That would exclude Golf, Bowling, Darts, Pool, Bocci, and Petanque from the sport category. All can be found under the "Game" heading...



Soup is Good Food....

[JPEZ]

http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2005/writers/chris_lewis/07/06/inside.golf/tx_wie2.jpg
Her golf skills are..........un-WIE-lievable! ;D

[Bronco9798]

I'm not sure you can make the same comparison between men and women. Women have far more flexibility than men - due to less muscle mass. Especially in the shoulder and arm area.

You want an actual demonstration. Put on a bra and try to reach behind and fasten it. It's a move women do easily, but the majority of men can't even come close. -- Not kidding.

Just as she doesn't have the upper arm mass to throw a baseball like a man, you can't compare her upper arm and shoulder movements to a man, either.

I just put my wifes bra on tried it, damn you're right....HaHa....I did find one thing out though. I have the same chest size as my wife, it fit quite nicely........:drown: :~ohyah!:

BTW, I can snap a bra off. We guys just get a little clumsy with them after about 15 beers........

[Tredici]

I just put my wifes bra on tried it, damn you're right....HaHa....I did find one thing out though. I have the same chest size as my wife, it fit quite nicely........:drown: :~ohyah!:

BTW, I can snap a bra off. We guys just get a little clumsy with them after about 15 beers........

It's a not so nice trick some physical therapists like to bait men with. A lot of rehab comes with a broken, or separated shoulder.

[Hogan11]

http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2005/writers/chris_lewis/07/06/inside.golf/tx_wie2.jpg
Her golf skills are..........un-WIE-lievable! ;D

All I can think of is Kung Pow..Enter The Fist....OHHH WIE, OH WIE, OH WIE, OH WIE.......Ha!

[Bronco9798]

It's a not so nice trick some physical therapists like to bait men with. A lot of rehab comes with a broken, or separated shoulder.

I've never had a broken/separated but I have had shoulder surgery, that was never in my rehab.

Thank goodness.......

[broncos love]

Big deal out of nothing, missed cut by 2 or 3 . Anyone thinks she can shoot 8 over par at cherry creek at a US WOMENS OPEN and make a pga tour cut at age 15 is a little crazy. Maybe when she turns old enough too buy drinks for me I will believe.

[Tredici]

Big deal out of nothing, missed cut by 2 or 3 . Anyone thinks she can shoot 8 over par at cherry creek at a US WOMENS OPEN and make a pga tour cut at age 15 is a little crazy. Maybe when she turns old enough too buy drinks for me I will believe.

Doubt it will take that long. How many (older) men did she beat who missed the cut by more?

[yavoon]

If you can smoke and drink while playing, it's not a sport.

That would exclude Golf, Bowling, Darts, Pool, Bocci, and Petanque from the sport category. All can be found under the "Game" heading...



Soup is Good Food....

and baseball.

[yavoon]

Big deal out of nothing, missed cut by 2 or 3 . Anyone thinks she can shoot 8 over par at cherry creek at a US WOMENS OPEN and make a pga tour cut at age 15 is a little crazy. Maybe when she turns old enough too buy drinks for me I will believe.

lets see, 54 hole leader at us womens open. 2nd at lpga(another major). missed cut by 2 at john deere, missed cut by 1 at sony open(last year).

yah she has no shot on the planet it snot like she's played like I dont know 8 tournaments in the last year and done amazingly well in all but like 2.

vijay goes 7 over and bombs a cut no1 bats an eyelash, if she is nething but 1 or 2 off the cut ppl start moaning and bitching.

[yavoon]

if this was a male 15 year old smoking 300 yard drives and competing to make cuts everyone and their dog would be on this guy like he was tiger 2.0. but somehow being a female she gets a lot of admirers, but frankly a ton of haters. I'm personally shocked and ashamed at how many ppl dislike, downplay and otherwise are not pleased with the fact that a 15 year old girl can compete w/ pga tour pros.

[Merlin]

if this was a male 15 year old smoking 300 yard drives and competing to make cuts everyone and their dog would be on this guy like he was tiger 2.0. but somehow being a female she gets a lot of admirers, but frankly a ton of haters.

Gender seems to play way too much on this story, and in the mix what is getting lost is how good she is regardless of gender. Yavoon makes reference to Tiger, and there is an apt comparison.

Tiger's first PGA event took place when he was 16, where as her first PGA event occurred when she was 14. He shot 72-75 at the 1992 Nissan Open, missed the cut by six strokes. Wie's first PGA tournament took place 18 months ago, the Sony Open in Hawaii and shot 72-68 (68!), and missed the cut by one stroke.

Wie's story should only be partly about gender, but it should be mostly about her talent and her mental abilities. At 15 she has done what few male greats have done at the PGA level, and for any knucklehead to dismiss her because she missed the cut by 3 shots show's he either know nothing about the game, he is letting gender cloud his vision, or he is a troll (I am sure there are other possibilities, but those are the ones that come to mind).

Merlin

[watermock]

First, as much as ESPN spins it, she went double bogey, bogey bogey at the end. Not exactly a dominant ending. She's a fine young player and should be allowed on both circuts. She is a fine young player in the mold of a female Tiger Woods, but the media attention is ludicrous. She doesn't make the cut and it's a huge story?

BTW, she doesn't drive 360, she drives 260, which is impressive, but let's get our facts straight.

[yavoon]

First, as much as ESPN spins it, she went double bogey, bogey bogey at the end. Not exactly a dominant ending. She's a fine young player and should be allowed on both circuts. She is a fine young player in the mold of a female Tiger Woods, but the media attention is ludicrous. She doesn't make the cut and it's a huge story?

BTW, she doesn't drive 360, she drives 260, which is impressive, but let's get our facts straight.

she doesn't drive 260. her avg in the lpga womens major was 287. and thats in tournament competition.

its not a big deal for her to hit it 300

[watermock]

She isn't making 300 yard drives or making the cut.

She is hitting incredibly strong 260 drives for a young woman and missing the cut. Chef Fan must live in some alternate universe devoid of reality.

[watermock]

she doesn't drive 260. her avg in the lpga womens major was 287. and thats in tournament competition.

its not a big deal for her to hit it 300

WTF? I never said she couldn't drive, she doesn't drive 300, and to post an average on a womans course isn't the PGA. She drove 287 on an LPGA COURSE. What part of this escapes you?

Since even your stat is on an LPGA COURSE, hopefully you understand I was talking about the PGA.

It's irrelevant because she drives around 260. I'm not slamming her, your spinning. It's amusing when someone can bring up 287 and make it to 300. I can guarantee her average drives are 260. I done with this argument.

[yavoon]

She isn't making 300 yard drives or making the cut.

She is hitting incredibly strong 260 drives for a young woman and missing the cut. Chef Fan must live in some alternate universe devoid of reality.

she hit 287 and finished second in a womans major. u must be stupid I can frigging hit it 260. 260 for michelle is a layup.

[yavoon]

WTF? I never said she couldn't drive, she doesn't drive 300, and to post an average on a womans course isn't the PGA. She drove 287 on an LPGA COURSE. What part of this escapes you?

Since even your stat is on an LPGA COURSE, hopefully you understand I was talking about the PGA.

It's irrelevant because she drives around 260. I'm not slamming her, your spinning. It's amusing when someone can bring up 287 and make it to 300. I can guarantee her average drives are 260. I done with this argument.

oh I'm sorry do they use different balls on the lpga? I wasn't aware! u ****ing retard.

[yavoon]

WTF? I never said she couldn't drive, she doesn't drive 300, and to post an average on a womans course isn't the PGA. She drove 287 on an LPGA COURSE. What part of this escapes you?

Since even your stat is on an LPGA COURSE, hopefully you understand I was talking about the PGA.

It's irrelevant because she drives around 260. I'm not slamming her, your spinning. It's amusing when someone can bring up 287 and make it to 300. I can guarantee her average drives are 260. I done with this argument.

a 287 avg pretty much guarentees some of ur drives are 300 unless u r absurdly consistent. and even then it was in a major which has a premium on accuracy, to correct that for what would normally be termed as "how far she can hit it" its even more.

[watermock]

The courses are more open in the LPGA. Go be delusional. I never said she didn't hit a 300 yard drive. I said she averages 260. Her average was posted on ESPN. Are you coherent?

Either ESPN is wrong, or you are. Regardless, it's irrelevant. She make the cut, I hoped she would actually. Arguing about 20 yards of driving distance is so classic spin it's amusing. It has nothing to do with any sort of argument whatsoever.

She can drive 600 yards. Doesn't change anything. If you want to deny stats, and push this agenda, go at it. Your making baseless assertions.

I will tell you one last time. The kid drives at 15 around 260 on the PGA. It's incredibly impressive. You want to bump it.

I suggest you put a link up and then I will. Put up a link. Not from the LPGA, but from the PGA, because that is what I'm talking about.

I'm done. Show me how she is driving on the PGA.

Go on. Your going to find 260. It's not even important. She didn't even make the cut and your in a tizzy.

[yavoon]

The courses are more open in the LPGA. Go be delusional. I never said she didn't hit a 300 yard drive. I said she averages 260. Her average was posted on ESPN. Are you coherent?

Either ESPN is wrong, or you are. Regardless, it's irrelevant. She make the cut, I hoped she would actually. Arguing about 20 yards of driving distance is so classic spin it's amusing. It has nothing to do with any sort of argument whatsoever.

She can drive 600 yards. Doesn't change anything. If you want to deny stats, and push this agenda, go at it. Your making baseless assertions.

I will tell you one last time. The kid drives at 15 around 260 on the PGA. It's incredibly impressive. You want to bump it.

I suggest you put a link up and then I will. Put up a link. Not from the LPGA, but from the PGA, because that is what I'm talking about.

I'm done. Show me how she is driving on the PGA.

Go on. Your going to find 260. It's not even important. She didn't even make the cut and your in a tizzy.

she avged 260 in this tournament, maybe the holes they were on she felt like laying up was fine. avg distance from tournament to tournament is different, in the womens open she used 3 woods for a lot of holes. she has generally been very conservative with her shots ala tiger woods before his last swing change. hell they only measure like 2 holes per round she mighta shanked one into the rough I dont know.

ur trying to pawn it off as 260 is how far she hits the ball when nothing could be further from the truth. if she only hit it 260 she would be like every other reasonably talented young golfer.

ur problem is u see the # 260 but w/o any knowledge or ability to properly understand it. u just blurt it right back, yet if u knew about michelle u would realize that saying "well she only hits it 260" is an absurdity.

[watermock]

No, average driving distance is average driving distance. What tournament? That is her driving distance, period. I asked for a link about her distance. You can't provide one. Now your making excused about the course? All you manage is to make an assertion how she "layed up" which is absurd. It's so classic.

ur problem?

I'm not going to bother.

[yavoon]

No, average driving distance is average driving distance. What tournament? That is her driving distance, period. I asked for a link about her distance. You can't provide one. Now your making excused about the course? All you manage is to make an assertion how she "layed up" which is absurd. It's so classic.

ur problem?

I'm not going to bother.

if u honestly think michelle drives it 260 than u might as well also believe the earth is flat. I already told u her avg in the lpga major, u think they use different balls?

[Tredici]

Stats comparisons: 2005 Wie vs. 2004 Wie at Sony Open in Hawaii



PGATOUR.COM compares Wie's performance in the 2004 and 2005 Sony Open in Hawaii with statistics powered by ShotLink.

2005 Sony Open in Hawaii Stats


Wie The Field
Driving Distance (All Drives) 267.5 275.3
Driving Accuracy 64% 54%
Greens In Regulation 53% 59%
Putts Per Round 31.00 28.97
Average Putt Made 3 ft 4 in 4 ft 10 in
Par 3 Average 3.38 3.02
Par 4 Average 4.29 4.17
Par 5 Average 4.75 4.56

2004 Sony Open in Hawaii Stats


Wie The Field
Driving Distance (Official Distance Holes) 271.0 279.7
Driving Distance (All Drives) 274.1 279.5
Driving Accuracy 68% 54%
Greens In Regulation 56% 65%
Putts Per Round 27.00 29.78
Average Putt Made 7 ft 6 in 4 ft 9 in
Par 3 Average 2.88 2.96
Par 4 Average 4.12 4.07
Par 5 Average 4.50 4.40
TOURCast: Become a TOUR Pass member and replay Michelle Wie's 2004 Sony Open in Hawaii

Michelle Wie's Average Birdie Putt (shots that the green was hit in regulation)

Year Length
2004 33 ft 8 in
2005 37 ft 6 in

In 2004, Wie made 7 putts over 10 feet

Round No. Length
Rd 1 4th Hole 33 ft 3 in
Rd 1 6th Hole 19 ft 9 in
Rd 1 12th Hole 10 ft 11 in
Rd 2 7th Hole 58 ft 5 in
Rd 2 8th Hole 14 ft 2 in
Rd 2 11th Hole 52 ft 3 in
Rd 2 16th Hole 16 ft 9 in

In 2005, Wie only made 1 putt over 10 feet

Round No. Length
Rd 1 1st Hole 14 ft 3 in

In 2004, Wie hit 3 drives over 300 yards

Round No. Length
Rd 1 14th Hole 317 Yards
Rd 1 18th Hole 301 Yards
Rd 2 16th Hole 311 Yards

In 2005, Wie hit 2 drives over 300 yards

Round No. Length
Rd 1 6th Hole 303 Yards
Rd 1 13th Hole 311 Yards

The kid is a special talent. Pretty amazing to think these comparisons are being made between her 14th and 15th birthdays.

[Sean]

Seems Morgan Pressel is beginning to feel envious of Wie. This could make for a juicy rivalry.

Wie, Pressel differ on approach (http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/sfl-mell11jul11,0,4021755.column?coll=sfla-sports-headlines)

[Ninjafied]

First, as much as ESPN spins it, she went double bogey, bogey bogey at the end.
This has all the markings of a classic rookie blow-up. That'll hopefully stop once she matures a bit.
That said, she’s challenging the PGA cut at an age long before most people even pick up the sport.

[NaptownChief]

She definitely choked coming down the stretch but still very impressive at the level she has taken her game at such an early age.



As for the driving distance pissing match I will add that I think the LPGA might cook the distances to make them look better. I certainly don't know that to be fact but one of my best friend's father who was a golf junky went to an LPGA event in the late 80's and noticed the yardage they were listing for the holes seemed over stated so he started stepping off some of the holes and concluded they were grossly overstated. That combined with the fact that Wie's average driving distance stats on the LPGA are a bit higher than those from the PGA and Nationwide event leads me to believe that could be the case. Regardless it doesn't take away from what she is accomplishing.

[Tredici]

She definitely choked coming down the stretch but still very impressive at the level she has taken her game at such an early age.



As for the driving distance pissing match I will add that I think the LPGA might cook the distances to make them look better. I certainly don't know that to be fact but one of my best friend's father who was a golf junky went to an LPGA event in the late 80's and noticed the yardage they were listing for the holes seemed over stated so he started stepping off some of the holes and concluded they were grossly overstated. That combined with the fact that Wie's average driving distance stats on the LPGA are a bit higher than those from the PGA and Nationwide event leads me to believe that could be the case. Regardless it doesn't take away from what she is accomplishing.

No offense but your best friend's father just needs to ask how the yardage is calculated. There is no way the LPGA is consistently overstating that category.

Period.

[NaptownChief]

No offense but your best friend's father just needs to ask how the yardage is calculated. There is no way the LPGA is consistently overstating that category.

Period.



Why do you say there is no way? You work for the LPGA setting up courses?

[Ballhawk]

To interject in all this bickering, Outstanding effort!! A simply amazing performance!!

[Tredici]

Why do you say there is no way? You work for the LPGA setting up courses?

I'm saying they use a consistent formula. I don't know why they didn't think of just having some guy walk it off.

[rbackfactory80]

BWAAAA I wouldn't really call golf a talent game, but she is pretty talented.

Physical tool don't really matter too much.

Intangibles baby intangibles.

Are you kidding me?? Golf is one of the toughest sports period. I play 3-4 times a week and still consider myself average at best. It may not be physically tough but mentally tough it is without question. Physically if you hit the ball further off the tee the better off you will be. It does have a physical aspect just not getting you teeth knocked out.

[Sean]

I'm saying they use a consistent formula. I don't know why they didn't think of just having some guy walk it off.

You seem to have a knack for putting a smile on my face. I'm sure I'm not the only man who says that, either.

[RhymesayersDU]

Are you kidding me?? Golf is one of the toughest sports period. I play 3-4 times a week and still consider myself average at best. It may not be physically tough but mentally tough it is without question. Physically if you hit the ball further off the tee the better off you will be. It does have a physical aspect just not getting you teeth knocked out.
Exactly. I realize some of the guys on tour, like John Daly, aren't in great shape, and might not be true athletes, but you can find those in most sports. There are out of shape pitchers, out of shape D-Linemen, etc. Hell, Oliver Miller was pulling in NBA paychecks for years and he was so big he could have shared the nickname "House" with Dwayne Carswell.

The top guys are athletes, work out, try to get more power into their drives, etc. There is a major physical aspect to it.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

I'm saying they use a consistent formula. I don't know why they didn't think of just having some guy walk it off.
:)
I'm thinking both tours have very accurately measured yardages. The caddies (along with the announcers) know exactly how far they are hitting and how far they have to the front, pin, etc... I highly doubt there is any conspiracy to exaggerate yardages. There are no questions with GPS range finders being used now.

[jonny1]

My only problem with the whole Michelle Wie thing is I read an article that said for the PGA tournament last week, she and her family were flown to the event on a private jet, had a house arranged for them, and special meals from a country club. Who exactly is providing this stuff? Here is the link to the article: http://www.pjstar.com/stories/071005/GRE_B6UDBDMF.077.shtml

And she is playing tournaments as an amateur?

[DB-Freak]

Are you kidding me?? Golf is one of the toughest sports period. I play 3-4 times a week and still consider myself average at best. It may not be physically tough but mentally tough it is without question. Physically if you hit the ball further off the tee the better off you will be. It does have a physical aspect just not getting you teeth knocked out.
I never denied that golf is a tough sport. Apparently I enjoy golf and golf quite often and I never tried to bash it.

Try to see my post after the one you quoted.

[rbackfactory80]

I never denied that golf is a tough sport. Apparently I enjoy golf and golf quite often and I never tried to bash it.

Try to see my post after the one you quoted.

I have put it under review.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

My only problem with the whole Michelle Wie thing is I read an article that said for the PGA tournament last week, she and her family were flown to the event on a private jet, had a house arranged for them, and special meals from a country club. Who exactly is providing this stuff? Here is the link to the article: http://www.pjstar.com/stories/071005/GRE_B6UDBDMF.077.shtml

And she is playing tournaments as an amateur?
Sponsors and promoters are paying the perks. She's only 15 and playing as an amateur (she finished second in a womans major but didn't collect any money).
Golf (PGA and LPGA) doesn't have the NCAA imposing their football and basketball rules on amateurs.

[FADERPROOF]

I'll be cheering for her this week(I believe it is), the winner gets an automatic invite to the Masters at Augusta, where they do not allow female members.

Be an interesting little chain of events if she does win it.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

I'll be cheering for her this week(I believe it is), the winner gets an automatic invite to the Masters at Augusta, where they do not allow female members.

Be an interesting little chain of events if she does win it.
If she did win there probably would be a heart attack epidemic among the "good ole boys" club in Georgia. :laugh:

[Master___Pain]

Sponsors and promoters are paying the perks. She's only 15 and playing as an amateur (she finished second in a womans major but didn't collect any money).
Golf (PGA and LPGA) doesn't have the NCAA imposing their football and basketball rules on amateurs.

Wie has the NCAA to worry about. She takes anything from a sponser or promoter she risks college eligibility. That being said I don't think Wie has any intent on going to college to play golf.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Wie has the NCAA to worry about. She takes anything from a sponser or promoter she risks college eligibility. That being said I don't think Wie has any intent on going to college to play golf.
How would that apply to her now? I don't think she is taking any money (or cars, or stereos or any other presents) from anyone.

[broncogary]

She shot 76 today in the Publinx qualifying.

http://sports.yahoo.com/golf/pga/news?slug=ap-menspublinx&prov=ap&type=lgns

[Master___Pain]

How would that apply to her now? I don't think she is taking any money (or cars, or stereos or any other presents) from anyone.

If she was flown on a jet or had any expenses paid for her. I don't know if she has or has not, but she can't except any gifts of any kind nor can her parents.

[Tredici]

If she was flown on a jet or had any expenses paid for her. I don't know if she has or has not, but she can't except any gifts of any kind nor can her parents.

You need to check eligibilty specifically for golf. This isn't an unusual situation for amatuer golfers, male or female. Their events and tournament invites are very different than someone playing football.

[yavoon]

She definitely choked coming down the stretch but still very impressive at the level she has taken her game at such an early age.



As for the driving distance pissing match I will add that I think the LPGA might cook the distances to make them look better. I certainly don't know that to be fact but one of my best friend's father who was a golf junky went to an LPGA event in the late 80's and noticed the yardage they were listing for the holes seemed over stated so he started stepping off some of the holes and concluded they were grossly overstated. That combined with the fact that Wie's average driving distance stats on the LPGA are a bit higher than those from the PGA and Nationwide event leads me to believe that could be the case. Regardless it doesn't take away from what she is accomplishing.

holy wow. u know most lpga courses work out to pretty similar yardages as the championship mens tees. how exactly do u plan on them fudging this? the shear amount of ppl who would need to be in on this is amazing.

god damn rednecks and they're stupid redneck hunches.

[yavoon]

Exactly. I realize some of the guys on tour, like John Daly, aren't in great shape, and might not be true athletes, but you can find those in most sports. There are out of shape pitchers, out of shape D-Linemen, etc. Hell, Oliver Miller was pulling in NBA paychecks for years and he was so big he could have shared the nickname "House" with Dwayne Carswell.

The top guys are athletes, work out, try to get more power into their drives, etc. There is a major physical aspect to it.

john daly is actually a tremendous athlete. to overswing like he does and hit the ball at a consistency capable of keeping ur pga tour card is rather remarkable in itself.

ur right though he is not in normal great athletic shape, but thats because golf does not rely heavily on conditioning or overall strength(they are minor parts).

[yavoon]

Wie has the NCAA to worry about. She takes anything from a sponser or promoter she risks college eligibility. That being said I don't think Wie has any intent on going to college to play golf.

if wie plays college golf I'll cry. what a waste. not even the normally good female golfers are going to college now. if wie went it would be an absurdity.

[yavoon]

If she was flown on a jet or had any expenses paid for her. I don't know if she has or has not, but she can't except any gifts of any kind nor can her parents.

there are workarounds. I think she is allowed to be reimbursed for travel to events by ppl. and she is allowed to accept money to play golf I think, like say ppl can give her golf shoes(lebron got shoes in high school) or a bag or something. either way its moot, if she violates any of the "amateur" rules she can just as well stop being an amateur. problem solved.

[Tredici]

if wie plays college golf I'll cry. what a waste. not even the normally good female golfers are going to college now. if wie went it would be an absurdity.

I don't know if she intends to play collegiate golf but I saw an interview where she stated she wanted to finish highschool and college. Might change her mind but so far that is her intent.

[-Slap-]

holy wow. u know most lpga courses work out to pretty similar yardages as the championship mens tees. how exactly do u plan on them fudging this? the shear amount of ppl who would need to be in on this is amazing.

god damn rednecks and their stupid redneck hunches.

That's a good laugh to start the day.

:laugh:

[Bronco_Beerslug]

That's a good laugh to start the day.

:laugh:
Getting hammered by yavoon for pulling sh*t out of the air has to hurt!
ROFL!

[NaptownChief]

holy wow. u know most lpga courses work out to pretty similar yardages as the championship mens tees. how exactly do u plan on them fudging this? the shear amount of ppl who would need to be in on this is amazing.

god damn rednecks and they're stupid redneck hunches.


Not too tough their brain child....You can post the yardages for the event based on the back of the tee box and actually set the tees up front for nearly every hole. Many tee boxes 25+ yards long. You do that on the majority of the 18 holes and you can have a course playing 400 yards less than it is posted. I probably don't need to tell someone as smart as you the 400 yards is a big difference in course set up.

To further that if they measure driving stats by yards remaining to the hole substracted from the stated hole yardage they can cook the stats without having to involve the "shear amounts" of people.

4321~

[NaptownChief]

Getting hammered by yavoon for pulling sh*t out of the air has to hurt!
ROFL!



Oh I'm torn apart and just don't know how I could possibly recover. Uhh

[Merlin]

god damn rednecks and they're stupid redneck hunches.

LOL Hilarious! rofl Hilarious!

[Tredici]

Not too tough their brain child....You can post the yardages for the event based on the back of the tee box and actually set the tees up front for nearly every hole. Many tee boxes 25+ yards long. You do that on the majority of the 18 holes and you can have a course playing 400 yards less than it is posted. I probably don't need to tell someone as smart as you the 400 yards is a big difference in course set up.

To further that if they measure driving stats by yards remaining to the hole substracted from the stated hole yardage they can cook the stats without having to involve the "shear amounts" of people.

4321~

Sounds like a lot of trouble. Just have your friend's Dad step it off.

[Master___Pain]

Not too tough their brain child....

When trying to insult someone's intelligence you gotta use the right "there".........

[NaptownChief]

LOL Hilarious! rofl Hilarious!



I'm still trying to figure out why he took a backhanded swipe at Spider...Spider isn't even part of the thread.

[yavoon]

Not too tough their brain child....You can post the yardages for the event based on the back of the tee box and actually set the tees up front for nearly every hole. Many tee boxes 25+ yards long. You do that on the majority of the 18 holes and you can have a course playing 400 yards less than it is posted. I probably don't need to tell someone as smart as you the 400 yards is a big difference in course set up.

To further that if they measure driving stats by yards remaining to the hole substracted from the stated hole yardage they can cook the stats without having to involve the "shear amounts" of people.

4321~

yah except its known and marked where the original yardage measure is in a teebox. and like I already said, the sheer amt of ppl needed to be in on this is just makes it dumb.

[NaptownChief]

yah except its known and marked where the original yardage measure is in a teebox. and like I already said, the sheer amt of ppl needed to be in on this is just makes it dumb.


It doesn't take a "sheer amt of ppl" all it takes is the one person responsible for course set up to have the tees put up front on the tee boxes and occassionally use a completely forward tee box from the norm and you can quickly turn a posted 6500 yard set up into a 5950. There is typically one single person responsible for that duty at all tournaments.

You might think there is no way that they would do such to make the gals look better and you might be correct but you absolutely wrong about it taking "sheers of people" if they wanted to do such.

And I'm not talking about changing markers and such just talking about saying they are playing a 6,500 course set up to the media and in fact actually play it at several hundred yards less.

[yavoon]

It doesn't take a "sheer amt of ppl" all it takes is the one person responsible for course set up to have the tees put up front on the tee boxes and occassionally use a completely forward tee box from the norm and you can quickly turn a posted 6500 yard set up into a 5950. There is typically one single person responsible for that duty at all tournaments.

You might think there is no way that they would do such to make the gals look better and you might be correct but you absolutely wrong about it taking "sheers of people" if they wanted to do such.

And I'm not talking about changing markers and such just talking about saying they are playing a 6,500 course set up to the media and in fact actually play it at several hundred yards less.

like I said though, the actual measured yardage is marked in the teebox(usually w/ a painted stone slab). honestly now do u seriously believe the lpga is cooking yardages? maybe women just hit it longer than u, aint no big thing right?

[NaptownChief]

like I said though, the actual measured yardage is marked in the teebox(usually w/ a painted stone slab). honestly now do u seriously believe the lpga is cooking yardages? maybe women just hit it longer than u, aint no big thing right?



I would imagine they want to make it look as impressive as possible so I wouldn't be the least bit surprised...

As for them hitting it longer than me...well if my swing isn't in sync Cory Pavin is blasting by me but most of the time NaptownChief pokes it out there a decent way. I'm not big bomber by todays standards but I've driven 5 different par 4 over the last few years ranging from 285 to 340 yard holes.

[Ninjafied]

Wow, who would have thought that a 15 year old girl golfer could produce so much to talk about. Amazing this thread has lasted this long. I would have given it an under/over of two pages at most.

On the yardage subject, there are lots of ways to squeeze out a few extra hundred yards and it wouldn’t even really be exaggerating. ie. front of the tee box vs. the back, take the wide edge of the dog-leg, front vs. center of the green, etc…. Now, whether they specifically tamper with it before LPGA events is another matter that I have no idea about. I’m guessing that the courses are well established with yardage already put on the sprinkler heads – so no it doesn’t happen.

But at the end of the day it doesn’t really matter because the PGA and LPGA are very different games. Men have to contend with insane pin positioning, slicker greens and deeper rough. Then throw some extra yardage on top of all that. Sorenstam confirmed all this in her post game interview after missing the Colonial cut 2 years ago.
And they’re not even close to giving the LPGA a uniform ball because Wei is crushing it.

[yavoon]

I would imagine they want to make it look as impressive as possible so I wouldn't be the least bit surprised...

As for them hitting it longer than me...well if my swing isn't in sync Cory Pavin is blasting by me but most of the time NaptownChief pokes it out there a decent way. I'm not big bomber by todays standards but I've driven 5 different par 4 over the last few years ranging from 285 to 340 yard holes.

and u blame the womens tour of exagerations!

[yavoon]

Wow, who would have thought that a 15 year old girl golfer could produce so much to talk about. Amazing this thread has lasted this long. I would have given it an under/over of two pages at most.

On the yardage subject, there are lots of ways to squeeze out a few extra hundred yards and it wouldn’t even really be exaggerating. ie. front of the tee box vs. the back, take the wide edge of the dog-leg, front vs. center of the green, etc…. Now, whether they specifically tamper with it before LPGA events is another matter that I have no idea about. I’m guessing that the courses are well established with yardage already put on the sprinkler heads – so no it doesn’t happen.

But at the end of the day it doesn’t really matter because the PGA and LPGA are very different games. Men have to contend with insane pin positioning, slicker greens and deeper rough. Then throw some extra yardage on top of all that. Sorenstam confirmed all this in her post game interview after missing the Colonial cut 2 years ago.
And they’re not even close to giving the LPGA a uniform ball because Wei is crushing it.

the womens tour is increasing the rough and other such things, in 10 years they might just be a short version of the mens tour. I dont even like insane rough though, takes away a lot of the great shots pros can pull off all just for the sake of making them score worse.

but either way thats why michelle is so special, 15 year old boys who could challenge for pga tour cuts would be amazing enough(tiger missed his first pga cut by 6 when he was 16, michelle missed her first cut by 1 when she was 14).

I have no idea what u mean by the uniform ball comment, all of north america plays w/ the same ball(europe has an ever so slightly smaller ball).

[Ninjafied]

I dont even like insane rough though, takes away a lot of the great shots pros can pull off all just for the sake of making them score worse.
I see your point on the rough issue. However, in some cases, it doesn’t even matter too much. On the easier courses the big hitters are knocking a wedge in regardless of their lie. Then it’s the skill guys that play accuracy like Toms and Couples that suffer even more – which I’d prefer not to happen.

I have no idea what u mean by the uniform ball comment
There’s talk that, instead of making multi-million dollar improvements to the courses, the pros should all play with a uniform ball that has a lower compression. Instead of lengthening the course they would just shorten the drives. You or I might not even know too much a difference, but it would take 20-30 yards of the pros. But that’s still up in the air.

but either way thats why michelle is so special
True, so very very true.
There is no doubt that she’s very talented.
But something tells me that lack of testosterone in a few years will mean that she’ll never be as good as Tiger (on a pure like-for-like comparison).

[yavoon]

I see your point on the rough issue. However, in some cases, it doesn’t even matter too much. On the easier courses the big hitters are knocking a wedge in regardless of their lie. Then it’s the skill guys that play accuracy like Toms and Couples that suffer even more – which I’d prefer not to happen.


There’s talk that, instead of making multi-million dollar improvements to the courses, the pros should all play with a uniform ball that has a lower compression. Instead of lengthening the course they would just shorten the drives. You or I might not even know too much a difference, but it would take 20-30 yards of the pros. But that’s still up in the air.


True, so very very true.
There is no doubt that she’s very talented.
But something tells me that lack of testosterone in a few years will mean that she’ll never be as good as Tiger (on a pure like-for-like comparison).

I think golf could do a lot of things that IMO would make it cooler. ie use 10 clubs, use a uniform ball. unfortunately if an idea to improve golf hurts capitalism, I think its unlikely to happen.

and yah I dont think michelle will ever be as good as tiger. but its fun to muse on how good she is.

and right now she's trying to make the cut at the mens publinks(winner gets to goto masters), she won the womens publinks when she was 13.

[Ninjafied]

but its fun to muse on how good she is.

and right now she's trying to make the cut at the mens publinks(winner gets to goto masters), she won the womens publinks when she was 13.

I'd have no problem betting she'll be the best female golfer ever.
And rather than mess with the # of clubs and capitalism, I think it'd be a huge draw in viewers and even an expanded fan base if she could ever compete in the Masters.
Here's to hoping....

[yavoon]

I'd have no problem betting she'll be the best female golfer ever.
And rather than mess with the # of clubs and capitalism, I think it'd be a huge draw in viewers and even an expanded fan base if she could ever compete in the Masters.
Here's to hoping....

she tried to make the US open as well but didnt make it. and yah I hope she makes a major someday.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Looks close to whether she'll make the cut or not.

Wie must wait to see if she makes match play
LEBANON, Ohio -- Michelle Wie bounced back with a 2-over 72 in the final round of stroke play at the men's Amateur Public Links on Tuesday, then settled in for a lengthy wait to find out if she qualified for match play.

"I'm going to have something to eat," she said after her round. "I'm really hungry."

Wie is playing the men's APL because the winner is traditionally invited to play at The Masters.

The first female to qualify for a men's U.S. Golf Association championship, the 15-year-old Wie followed an opening 76 to get to 8-over 148 through the 36 holes. The last golfer was not expected to complete the second round until several hours after Wie finished.

The top 64 scorers move on to match play Wednesday. Wie's score will likely keep her watching the scores until the final group finishes. Making or missing out on match play could come down to the final shot.

"It's too early to tell," USGA spokesman David Shefter said. "The scores aren't official until every card has been signed. If we have to do a playoff after that, we will."

For the second day in a row, a huge gallery cheered every one of Wie's shots. Around 300 people, including Wie's parents, stuck with her for most of her round. Numerous USGA officials and two deputy sheriffs attempted to clear the way for Wie and her fellow players.

Not everyone was a Wie fan, however.

"I don't think she should be here," said Danny Green, one of the top players in the field, after shooting a tournament-low 65 to stand at 2-under 138. "I think she should play in the women's tournaments because they don't let the men play in women's tournaments. I just don't agree with that, but it's not my call. She qualified and she is going by the rules. She's here and she is a great player. I've got nothing against that."
http://sports.espn.go.com/golf/news/story?id=2106365

[Tredici]

"I don't think she should be here," said Danny Green, one of the top players in the field, after shooting a tournament-low 65 to stand at 2-under 138. "I think she should play in the women's tournaments because they don't let the men play in women's tournaments. I just don't agree with that, but it's not my call. She qualified and she is going by the rules. She's here and she is a great player. I've got nothing against that."

--No offense but the reason is obvious and stated in the paragraph above - -

For the second day in a row, a huge gallery cheered every one of Wie's shots. Around 300 people, including Wie's parents, stuck with her for most of her round. Numerous USGA officials and two deputy sheriffs attempted to clear the way for Wie and her fellow players.

-- She's selling tickets. That translates into more money. It also means increased viewers, which pleases the sponsors. That translates into more money. Seems like the direction golf would like go. --

[Bronco_Beerslug]

-- She's selling tickets. That translates into more money. It also means increased viewers, which pleases the sponsors. That translates into more money. Seems like the direction golf would like go. --

I'm pretty sure "Golf" (male or female) understands what she means for their game :) Does bother me a little though that a 15 year old girl can hit it further than me zowie!

[Tredici]

I'm pretty sure "Golf" (male or female) understands what she means for their game :) Does bother me a little though that a 15 year old girl can hit it further than me zowie!

Maybe that's what Danny is afraid of.

Hahahhahahaha.

[NaptownChief]

and u blame the womens tour of exagerations!



Mediator has played with me, he can verify. Just cause you hit dinkers doesn't mean everybody does.

[broncogary]

http://sports.yahoo.com/golf/pga/news?slug=ap-menspublinx&prov=ap&type=lgns

Wie shoots 72, makes field for match play at men's Amateur Publinx

[-Slap-]

goddamn rednecks and their stupid redneck hunches

If Taco brings back signature lines, I have dibs on this one.

[Hogan11]

Big deal....didn't watch it before her, won't watch it after she breaks upon the scene.

As amazing as it seems, some people just don't care at all about golf....no matter what the feel good story of the year is that's trying to promote it.

[Tredici]

Big deal....didn't watch it before her, won't watch it after she breaks upon the scene.

As amazing as it seems, some people just don't care at all about golf....no matter what the feel good story of the year is that's trying to promote it.

For a minute there I thought I'd wandered into a hockey thread....

[Hogan11]

For a minute there I thought I'd wandered into a hockey thread....

That sounded like an anti-hockey type, didn't it?? Ha!

Oh well, it is what I think of this so-called sport anyways...JMO mind you, people can either take it or not, I really don't care.

[Tredici]

That sounded like an anti-hockey type, didn't it?? Ha!

Oh well, it is what I think of this so-called sport anyways...JMO mind you, people can either take it or not, I really don't care.

Sounds kinda flava clownish to me...

rofl

[Hogan11]

Sounds kinda flava clownish to me...

rofl

Nice try Tred....... Nnyah!

[broncogary]

http://sports.yahoo.com/golf/pga/news?slug=ap-menspublinx&prov=ap&type=lgns

Wie's late birdie sends her into second round of APL match play

[yavoon]

http://sports.yahoo.com/golf/pga/news?slug=ap-menspublinx&prov=ap&type=lgns

Wie's late birdie sends her into second round of APL match play
woohooo.

[broncogary]

http://sports.yahoo.com/golf/pga/news?slug=ap-menspublinx&prov=ap&type=lgns


Wie advances to third round with easy match win at APL

By RUSTY MILLER, AP Sports Writer
July 14, 2005

AP - Jul 12, 2:42 pm EDT
More Photos


LEBANON, Ohio (AP) -- Michelle Wie played through a persistent drizzle Thursday to easily advance in her second match at the men's Amateur Public Links.

The 15-year-old high school junior-to-be, the first female to qualify for a men's U.S. Golf Association championship, rolled to a 6-and-5 victory over C.D. Hockersmith of Richmond, Ind. Wie will play the next round later Thursday against the winner of the match between Tyler Neal of Tucson, Ariz., and Jim Renner of Plainville, Mass.

Every year since 1989, the winner of the APL has gotten an invitation to the Masters. Wie went through APL qualifying in hopes of earning a spot at Augusta National.

Wie won the first hole with a birdie, hitting a 3-foot putt, and never trailed against Hockersmith. She birdied three of the first four holes -- winning them all -- and then parred the par-3 5th for a 5-up lead.

Hockersmith finally won a hole after hitting his approach to 5 feet at the par-3 8th. He also won the 10th hole with a par, but the early deficit was too much to overcome. Wie closed him out on the 13th green.

To win the APL, she still must win her third round match Thursday, quarterfinal and semifinal matches on Friday -- and the 36-hole final Saturday.

After shooting rounds of 76 and 72 during medal play, she defeated Auburn's Will Claxton 1-up with a 15-foot birdie putt on the final hole in her first-round match Wednesday.

Renner, 21, plays at Johnson & Wales University in Miami, where he was the medalist at the NAIA tournament this year. He lost in the first round of APL match play a year ago.

Neal, 19, will be a sophomore on the University of Arizona golf team. He failed to qualify for the APL a year ago.

[broncogary]

http://www.pgatour.com/story/8647351

She lost 5 and 4 this morning.

[yavoon]

boooo!

oh well

[NaptownChief]

http://www.pgatour.com/story/8647351

She lost 5 and 4 this morning.


She took a beat down today much like the one she gave Hockersmith yesterday. It was a good run and she gained some respect out of this run despite the loss.