NBA Free Agency news that only Nuggets fans and DenFan will care about

[RhymesayersDU]

The Bucks, as expected, offered SG Michael Redd the maximum 6-year deal they were allowed to under the new CBA.

Nuggets fans shoudn't even care, we don't have the cash for him... But we all wanted this guy at the trade deadline, so yeah.

DenFan, you think the Cavs will match it? They're gunna have to go max, obviously.

[FADERPROOF]

The Bucks, as expected, offered SG Michael Redd the maximum 6-year deal they were allowed to under the new CBA.

Nuggets fans shoudn't even care, we don't have the cash for him... But we all wanted this guy at the trade deadline, so yeah.

DenFan, you think the Cavs will match it? They're gunna have to go max, obviously.

I heard, I;m not happy because I know the Cavs will **** it up and not get Redd.

[DBroncos4life]

Im a Cavs fan why don't I get to care? ;)

[FADERPROOF]

Im a Cavs fan why don't I get to care? ;)

As a fellow Cavs fan, I find it hard to care about all the stupid moves we do/don't make. Its getting old seeing this team constantly settling to make the 2nd or 3rd best moves instead of going out and getting the best option for us.

We let Boozer go, settle for Gooden, we let Andre Miller go, settle for Jeff McInnis, we're in the process of letting Z go, will settle for 2nd or 3rd best option instead of him.

It's growing tiresome. The Eastern Conference has been down since the Bulls dynasty ended and we haven't been able to find our way into the playoffs in 8 years now. You figure that the law of averages would say that since 50% of the team make the playoffs, the Cavs would stumble into them at least once in the past 8 years.

If we don't do something to get Redd, we'll walk into the season with the same or even worse team than last year, which wil make for 9 straight years of no playoffs.

[SoCalBronco]

As a fellow Cavs fan, I find it hard to care about all the stupid moves we do/don't make. Its getting old seeing this team constantly settling to make the 2nd or 3rd best moves instead of going out and getting the best option for us.

We let Boozer go, settle for Gooden, we let Andre Miller go, settle for Jeff McInnis, we're in the process of letting Z go, will settle for 2nd or 3rd best option instead of him.

It's growing tiresome. The Eastern Conference has been down since the Bulls dynasty ended and we haven't been able to find our way into the playoffs in 8 years now. You figure that the law of averages would say that since 50% of the team make the playoffs, the Cavs would stumble into them at least once in the past 8 years.

If we don't do something to get Redd, we'll walk into the season with the same or even worse team than last year, which wil make for 9 straight years of no playoffs.

Its not in the Cavs hands. They have done all they can. They offered him the Max over a 5 year period which is the best another team can do. Milwaukee gets that special option to offer him the Max over 6. You cant do anything about the fact that they can put an extra 15-20 million on the table.

[HEAV]

Bucks: Redd receives two max offers
by Fanball Staff - Fanball.com
Saturday, July 2, 2005

News
Guard Michael Redd has received two max contract offers, one from his existing team, the Bucks, and one from his hometown team, the Cavs. According to ESPN.com's Marc Stein, Redd has a six-year offer from Milwaukee for an estimated $80-90 million and a five-year deal on the table from Cleveland for an estimated $60-70 million. Under the new collective bargaining agreement, Redd's existing team can offer an additional year.

Views
Leaving an extra $20 million on the table would be significant, but $60-70 million and a spot alongside LeBron James is nothing to sneeze at. Redd's value is probably at its highest in Milwaukee where he runs the show, rather than as LeBron's wingman, but James dishes with the best of them and commands a lot of attention. We'll keep you posted on Redd's decision.

[FADERPROOF]

Its not in the Cavs hands. They have done all they can. They offered him the Max over a 5 year period which is the best another team can do. Milwaukee gets that special option to offer him the Max over 6. You cant do anything about the fact that they can put an extra 15-20 million on the table.

Redd should already be a Cavalier, we had him at the trade deadline and pulled out because we weren't ready to part with Luke Jackson.

Now we're paying for it, and all the other moves that I talked about was in our hands.

[DBroncos4life]

If we let Z go I will be pissed. He is a very good Center, under-rated in my mind. The team pisses players way faster then any other team I have seen. I liked Boozer but Im not sad that we ended up with Gooden instead. We will just have to wait and see I guess. I don't want to end up like those other teams with 6 allstars and no team work to show for it. Anyways whats the word on Ray Allen? I heard the Cavs maybe looking at him as well.

[FADERPROOF]

If we let Z go I will be pissed. He is a very good Center, under-rated in my mind. The team pisses players way faster then any other team I have seen. I liked Boozer but Im not sad that we ended up with Gooden instead. We will just have to wait and see I guess. I don't want to end up like those other teams with 6 allstars and no team work to show for it. Anyways whats the word on Ray Allen? I heard the Cavs maybe looking at him as well.

Last I heard on Allen is that Seattle is loking at a sign and trade to the LA Clippers.

[SoCalBronco]

Last I heard on Allen is that Seattle is loking at a sign and trade to the LA Clippers.

Woo Hoo!

[DBroncos4life]

Last I heard on Allen is that Seattle is loking at a sign and trade to the LA Clippers.



That sucks, he would be a great player for us.

[orange 4 life]

we didnt have the money for redd, and we dont have the money for allen.

that said, my choice is cuttino mobley.

we're talking about an underrated guy here that can shoot and averaged 17 points a game a couple years back.

he would look great in powder blue, and im surprised no one is talking about him.

jake

[RhymesayersDU]

Im a Cavs fan why don't I get to care? ;)
Jesus, there are more Cavs fans? Are you guys breeding or something?

And a big YES to Jake. I'd love Cuttino Mobley.

[Nuggets4]

The Nuggets are seriously going after Bobby Simmons, bringing my dream closer to reality. Rumor has it that we'd send a player to them in a sign-and-trade.

Earl for Simmons. Get it done Kiki.

[RhymesayersDU]

I'd trade Earl for a 6-piece McNugget at this point.

But Bobby Simmons would be nice too.

[Paladin]

I'd trade Earl for a 6-piece McNugget at this point.

Lol. He did do some good things for the Nuggets, but he seems to screw up at just the crucial moments.... I thought he was cute, but now the Nuggets are beyond that. With a SG and Martin getting his knee straight, and Melo with a year, Camby there and Dre, a real chance to go somewhere. I liked Demarr Johnson. Guy came to play.

[FADERPROOF]

I'd trade Earl for a 6-piece McNugget at this point.

But Bobby Simmons would be nice too.

I would too, MCDonald's just jacked up the prices on the 10 piece chicken nuggets value meal up to over 5 bucks here, very worthy of Earl for that amount of bank.

[Nuggets4]

I would too, MCDonald's just jacked up the prices on the 10 piece chicken nuggets value meal up to over 5 bucks here, very worthy of Earl for that amount of bank.

Are you serious?!? Damn. I've been trying to stop fast food but with production week coming up that streak was going to end. This just depresses me.

[RhymesayersDU]

I hate Earl with a passion. When his shot is on, he can be literally the best player on the court... but when his shot is off, he's literally the worst. The fact is, when his shot is off, his size becomes a factor. For most players, if their shot is off, they can make up for it with defense, rebounds, etc, and Earl can't do that.

Way too much of a defensive liability.

[DivineLegion]

The Nuggets ****ed themselves by picking Hodge...have fun with a big ethiopean who can only get the ocasional lucky inside shot...

[epicSocialism4tw]

Be glad that you guys didn't max Redd out for 5 or 6 years. I'm sure that he'll turn out to be a fine player for a good portion of that contract, but a max contract slot is intended to pay for a true difference maker and I don't know if Redd is that. He is a Mike Finley 'lite' and Fin didnt prove to be worth his max contract during his prime because he couldn't put his team over the hump. I see alot of the same limitations in Redd's game that Finley has had, but Redd doesnt have the same competitive fire that Finley does.

[yavoon]

Be glad that you guys didn't max Redd out for 5 or 6 years. I'm sure that he'll turn out to be a fine player for a good portion of that contract, but a max contract slot is intended to pay for a true difference maker and I don't know if Redd is that. He is a Mike Finley 'lite' and Fin didnt prove to be worth his max contract during his prime because he couldn't put his team over the hump. I see alot of the same limitations in Redd's game that Finley has had, but Redd doesnt have the same competitive fire that Finley does.

I think finley is more of a scorer. which just makes him a bad version of kobe or tracy or some other more elite scorer. redd atleast is a great shooter, excellent quick release. doesn't make him worth max, but does give him some more uniqueness than finley posessed.

[epicSocialism4tw]

I think finley is more of a scorer. which just makes him a bad version of kobe or tracy or some other more elite scorer. redd atleast is a great shooter, excellent quick release. doesn't make him worth max, but does give him some more uniqueness than finley posessed.

Finley was and still is a shooter. He could never beat a player off of the dribble, even early in his career. The difference between Fin and other shooters is that he had terrific explosive leapoing ability and could posterize anyone onder the rim. The problem with Fin is that he has always been too timid to beat his man and go down the lane. He resorts to jumpers from around the arc.

[yavoon]

Finley was and still is a shooter. He could never beat a player off of the dribble, even early in his career. The difference between Fin and other shooters is that he had terrific explosive leapoing ability and could posterize anyone onder the rim. The problem with Fin is that he has always been too timid to beat his man and go down the lane. He resorts to jumpers from around the arc.

really I've never watched finley and thot he was particularly dangerous shooting. I mean yah kobe can shoot too. but when u watch redd its more like watching ray allen or peja.

[epicSocialism4tw]

really I've never watched finley and thot he was particularly dangerous shooting. I mean yah kobe can shoot too. but when u watch redd its more like watching ray allen or peja.

Finley is the same way, but he has a little more to his game than those two guys.

The Mavs were actually the team that got Redd his current contract. They wanted him to be the heir apparent to Fin. The Bucks matched the Mavs' offer at the last minute and retained him.

[yavoon]

btw since we talkin about mavs is nowitzki saying anything about getting himself a post game? because its all well and good to be 7 foot but right now he plays like he's 6'6. I mean how can u not be posting up mcgrady and marion? thats all ppl are gna guard him w/ now are athletic SF type players. I see bad stuff for nowitzki if he doesn't learn to postup.

[yavoon]

Finley is the same way, but he has a little more to his game than those two guys.

The Mavs were actually the team that got Redd his current contract. They wanted him to be the heir apparent to Fin. The Bucks matched the Mavs' offer at the last minute and retained him.

then u guys massively overpaid for finley because I see none of peja, allen or redd in him. hahaha well its no shock that dallas overpays for just about everything.

[epicSocialism4tw]

then u guys massively overpaid for finley because I see none of peja, allen or redd in him. hahaha well its no shock that dallas overpays for just about everything.


At the time Fin was a regular all-star and had just led Dallas to playing winning basketball for the first time since the 80's. Fin was a savior of sorts. He demanded a max contract at the time because of the CBA and the market.

I would take Fin in his prime over any of those guys you mentioned. Fin had a more complete game (slightly) and was just as good if not better of a jump shooter. Fin was in his prime when he got his big payday, and fell apart 3 years later. It is believed that Cuban paid Fin the max in part to show loyalty and to attract other players who wanted the big payday to Dallas.

[yavoon]

At the time Fin was a regular all-star and had just led Dallas to playing winning basketball for the first time since the 80's. Fin was a savior of sorts. He demanded a max contract at the time because of the CBA and the market.

I would take Fin in his prime over any of those guys you mentioned. Fin had a more complete game (slightly) and was just as good if not better of a jump shooter. Fin was in his prime when he got his big payday, and fell apart 3 years later. It is believed that Cuban paid Fin the max in part to show loyalty and to attract other players who wanted the big payday to Dallas.

first of all peja has one of the best jump shots of all time, he just lacks in most other areas. ray allen is one of the better pure shooters in the last 10 years. redd? well redd's magic is in his combination of shooting and his quick release.

I'd take finley over peja, cuz peja isn't much a ball player beyond his jump shot. but otherwise I'd take redd and allen.

[epicSocialism4tw]

first of all peja has one of the best jump shots of all time, he just lacks in most other areas. ray allen is one of the better pure shooters in the last 10 years. redd? well redd's magic is in his combination of shooting and his quick release.

I'd take finley over peja, cuz peja isn't much a ball player beyond his jump shot. but otherwise I'd take redd and allen.

Peja has one of the best jump shots of all-time? That is a pretty short-sided analysis.

Redd still has not proved anything besides the fact that he can score 20ppg as a 2 guard which is very common in today's NBA.

Allen has underachieved for most of his career. Allen easily has the faster shot release between he and Redd.

[yavoon]

Peja has one of the best jump shots of all-time? That is a pretty short-sided analysis.

Redd still has not proved anything besides the fact that he can score 20ppg as a 2 guard which is very common in today's NBA.

Allen has underachieved for most of his career. Allen easily has the faster shot release between he and Redd.

why is it short sided? because he hasn't been retired for 20 years? maybe u dont watch redd but redd has a very fast release, I wouldn't say allen has a slow one but easily faster is just incorrect.

and like i said, allen and redd to me are real shooters, finley isnt. finley is a crap version of more elite sg's like kobe or mcgrady.

[MajikMan7]

As a Bucks fan I hate to see Redd get the Max deal. He doesn't deserve it. This deal reminds me of the big mistake the Knicks made by giving Allan Houston a Max contract.

[DBroncos4life]

As a Bucks fan I hate to see Redd get the Max deal. He doesn't deserve it. This deal reminds me of the big mistake the Knicks made by giving Allan Houston a Max contract.


Hey Project I got another A. Davis autogragh card, same card.

[MajikMan7]

Hey Project I got another A. Davis autogragh card, same card.

Damn you.

[DBroncos4life]

Damn you.



Yeah two of the same card. Kind of pissed me off really. It would have been nice to get someone else.

[epicSocialism4tw]

why is it short sided? because he hasn't been retired for 20 years? maybe u dont watch redd but redd has a very fast release, I wouldn't say allen has a slow one but easily faster is just incorrect.

and like i said, allen and redd to me are real shooters, finley isnt. finley is a crap version of more elite sg's like kobe or mcgrady.

Your evaluation of Finley is off a little. I have seen 95% of Finley's games as a Maverick, and he is not in the mold of either of the players that you mentioned. Let me explain.

Finley is and always has been primarily a jumpshoooter. Your idea of him as a penetrating/creating 2 guard could possibly be due to his highlight repetiore where he shows his outstanding athleticism and dunking ability. The problem with Fin has always been that he does not do that as much as he should. Fin cannot be relied upon to create those plays for himself. He cannot break down his man off of the dribble and is too timid to attack the rim, so he resorts to jumpshots that are often spectacular. He has a gorgeous jumper that looks almost exactly like Mike Jordan's.

Bryant and McGrady are both the initiators and main executors of their respective offenses. They act as the point and either distribute the ball or score on offense by throwing the defense into disarray when help defenders leave their players to try and protect the rim. Finley was never able to hold that responsability. He would have to consistently beat his defender to the rim, and he could never do that. Fin would usually catch the ball in rhythm and square up for a jumper.

Fin excelled at the 12-18 ft range and could also consistently hit the three. Fin is a jumpshooter.

It's kind of funny, but Redd is basically a poor-man's Fin when Fin was in his prime.

[yavoon]

Your evaluation of Finley is off a little. I have seen 95% of Finley's games as a Maverick, and he is not in the mold of either of the players that you mentioned. Let me explain.

Finley is and always has been primarily a jumpshoooter. Your idea of him as a penetrating/creating 2 guard could possibly be due to his highlight repetiore where he shows his outstanding athleticism and dunking ability. The problem with Fin has always been that he does not do that as much as he should. Fin cannot be relied upon to create those plays for himself. He cannot break down his man off of the dribble and is too timid to attack the rim, so he resorts to jumpshots that are often spectacular. He has a gorgeous jumper that looks almost exactly like Mike Jordan's.

Bryant and McGrady are both the initiators and main executors of their respective offenses. They act as the point and either distribute the ball or score on offense by throwing the defense into disarray when help defenders leave their players to try and protect the rim. Finley was never able to hold that responsability. He would have to consistently beat his defender to the rim, and he could never do that. Fin would usually catch the ball in rhythm and square up for a jumper.

Fin excelled at the 12-18 ft range and could also consistently hit the three. Fin is a jumpshooter.

It's kind of funny, but Redd is basically a poor-man's Fin when Fin was in his prime.

redd is better than fin as a shooter, u can continue to not believe me thats alright.

also funny, I think jordan has a poor looking jumpshot. jordan of course being a superb athlete that is fantastically coordinated it didnt matter. jordan used a lot of jump and threw a very low trajectory ball AT THE RIM. that is not a good shot. and infact looks like most big players besides maybe ewing who had a much nicer arc on his ball.

and finally finley being "not good enough" to do what mcgrady and kobe did, i agree, and infact I think thats much of what I was saying anyway. finley is like a crappy version, obviously being worse at it he jacks up more shots. but to me he jacks up shots over ppl and around ppl in one on one situations. that to me is more like a scorer. a shooter uses more rhythmn, and is far more dangerous in a set way than slashing here and popping or what have u.

[epicSocialism4tw]

redd is better than fin as a shooter, u can continue to not believe me thats alright.

also funny, I think jordan has a poor looking jumpshot. jordan of course being a superb athlete that is fantastically coordinated it didnt matter. jordan used a lot of jump and threw a very low trajectory ball AT THE RIM. that is not a good shot. and infact looks like most big players besides maybe ewing who had a much nicer arc on his ball.

and finally finley being "not good enough" to do what mcgrady and kobe did, i agree, and infact I think thats much of what I was saying anyway. finley is like a crappy version, obviously being worse at it he jacks up more shots. but to me he jacks up shots over ppl and around ppl in one on one situations. that to me is more like a scorer. a shooter uses more rhythmn, and is far more dangerous in a set way than slashing here and popping or what have u.

Jordan's trajectory was typically variable. That's how athletic he was. He had such a great feel for the game that he was able to adjust in the air and still hit a good % of his shots. He did not have great arc, but his release was as smooth as silk.

[GSRelyea]

If anyone wants any other teams posted, let me know and I will put them up here.

DENVER NUGGETS
Players they might lose: Greg Buckner, DerMarr Johnson

Players they might pursue: Michael Redd, Joe Johnson (R), Bobby Simmons, Keyon Dooling, Ronald Murray (R), Arvydas Macijauskas, Travis Hansen

Current cap position: $44.4 million ($5.1 million under the cap)

Analysis: The Nuggets seriously miscalculated their cap position for this summer at the trade deadline when they traded for Eduardo Najera. Had they not made that trade, they would've been looking at between $7 million and $9 million in cap room. Instead, they just have around $3.5 million, no more than the mid-level exception that every team in the league has.

It will cost them in their pursuit of their biggest need, a sharpshooter in the backcourt. If they want guys like Redd or Johnson, they're going to have figure out a way to do a sign-and-trade (perhaps using Nene as bait) or pick up a guy like Michael Finley from the NBA amnesty program that allows each team to waive one player.

On the cheaper end are guys like Dooling, who started to impress some scouts this year with his play in Miami. Dooling is a combo guard that could be a good fit in Denver. Ditto for Murray, who had a breakout year two seasons ago while Ray Allen was on the injured list.

Macijauskas is more affordable and a good, veteran fit on the team. He played in the Euroleague Final Four this year and has rare experience for someone so young.

Hansen, the former BYU star, was on the same team with Macijauskas and at times looked like the better NBA prospect because of his superior athleticism.

[Master___Pain]

I like the idea of Flip Murray if the price is right.

[FADERPROOF]

Ray Allen has signed a 5 year deal with the Seattle Sonics, so there's one target off the market.

espn.com currently has a poll asking what you would do if you were Michael Redd, either sign with the Bucks or sign with the Cavs, and 63% say that they would sign with the Cavs.

Means nothing I know, but hopefully Redd will go with the voters majority decision and sign here in Cleveland.

[Clockwork Orange]

The voters are voting based upon their desire to see Redd & James together......but I can give you about 20 million reasons why Redd will likely stay in Milwaukee.

Redd's in a Kenyon Martin type situation, he's not exactly a max contract type player, but the open market says that he is. I'm thinking he'll stay with the Bucks, if he doesn't they come out of this looking like the most incompetant front office this side of the Clippers. They could have traded him and got something of value for him last year at the deadline and are now left to sweat it out.

[FADERPROOF]

The voters are voting based upon their desire to see Redd & James together......but I can give you about 20 million reasons why Redd will likely stay in Milwaukee.

Redd's in a Kenyon Martin type situation, he's not exactly a max contract type player, but the open market says that he is. I'm thinking he'll stay with the Bucks, if he doesn't they come out of this looking like the most incompetant front office this side of the Clippers. They could have traded him and got something of value for him last year at the deadline and are now left to sweat it out.

It'll be upsetting to see him sign back with the Bucks, Cavs will probably focus their atention on Mobley or Hughes to fill 1 of the spots on the roster, which brings me back to an earlier post of mine about how Cleveland gets their 2nd 3rd or 4th option out there, and is a reason as to why we havent sniffed a playoff game in 8 years.

[yavoon]

all this over redd is getting silly, nice player, good shot. but a max contract for a perimeter player that ISNT KNOWN for creating or defense or passing? I mean holy **** wtf can he hit half court shots regularly or something? adonal foyle is slightly more overpaid, but maybe only slightly.

[FADERPROOF]

all this over redd is getting silly, nice player, good shot. but a max contract for a perimeter player that ISNT KNOWN for creating or defense or passing? I mean holy **** wtf can he hit half court shots regularly or something? adonal foyle is slightly more overpaid, but maybe only slightly.

Cavs just know that they have to do something this offseason to keep King James in Cleveland once his cotnract is up in 2 years, signing Redd to the max contract is their #1 option because it gives them the best chance of improvement.

Bucks knew Cleveland would toss a max contract at him, so they went ahead and did it as well hoping that their 1 extra year and 20 million more will keep him in Milwaukee.

I agree that he isn't a max contract player, but as Clockwork stated, the market out there makes him one.

[yavoon]

Cavs just know that they have to do something this offseason to keep King James in Cleveland once his cotnract is up in 2 years, signing Redd to the max contract is their #1 option because it gives them the best chance of improvement.

Bucks knew Cleveland would toss a max contract at him, so they went ahead and did it as well hoping that their 1 extra year and 20 million more will keep him in Milwaukee.

I agree that he isn't a max contract player, but as Clockwork stated, the market out there makes him one.

yah, "king" james man he is warping space and time. he better be the next coming. does he even play defnse yet? I know he doesn't play pg, which is funny.

[Clockwork Orange]

I mean holy **** wtf can he hit half court shots regularly or something? adonal foyle is slightly more overpaid, but maybe only slightly.

No, but if you believe the commercials, Lebron can hit 90 footers with regularity. :thumbs:

The only player more overpaid than Adonal Foyle is maybe Brian Grant. That one's a coin toss.

[FADERPROOF]

yah, "king" james man he is warping space and time. he better be the next coming. does he even play defnse yet? I know he doesn't play pg, which is funny.

Why is it funny that he doesn't play PG? At 6"8 260, he's better suited as a 2 or 3, I don't think you'll find too many people that would like to keep him running the point.

As for defense, it certainly needs to be improved, along with just about every other Cleveland Cavs defensive game.

[FADERPROOF]

No, but if you believe the commercials, Lebron can hit 90 footers with regularity. :thumbs:

The only player more overpaid than Adonal Foyle is maybe Brian Grant. That one's a coin toss.

I was there when they were shooting that commercial, saw him drill those with my own two eyes ;)

[yavoon]

Why is it funny that he doesn't play PG? At 6"8 260, he's better suited as a 2 or 3, I don't think you'll find too many people that would like to keep him running the point.

As for defense, it certainly needs to be improved, along with just about every other Cleveland Cavs defensive game.

I think that was james' whole sell was that he had kobe/mcgrady athletic skills and could play point. magic johnson w/ a 40 inch vertical.

of course now it isnt looking like that.

[Mr. Trout]

all this over redd is getting silly, nice player, good shot. but a max contract for a perimeter player that ISNT KNOWN for creating or defense or passing? I mean holy **** wtf can he hit half court shots regularly or something? adonal foyle is slightly more overpaid, but maybe only slightly.


The NBA is riciculous...Look at Allen Houston, Dikembe Mutombo, Matt Geiger the list goes on of numerous people with marginal b-ball skills getting huge sums of money.. That is the way it works. For christ sakes their salary cap is the same as the NFL and they only field 15 people instead of 53.

[epicSocialism4tw]

The Cavs would be better served by Joe Johnson, and they could get him if they bid high enough. I think that he is actually a much better player than Redd. I really don't know why Redd is getting so much hype. Is he from New York or LA or something? Redd will be nothing more than a poor man's Mike Finley. If Bogut comes on strong, Redd could be really good, but I don't see him (Redd) leading that team anywhere.

On another note: anyone else notice how much Andrew Bogut physically looks like Darko Milicic? I think that Bogut could be a really special player. Great basketball mind and all of the tools to succeed as a center.

[Clockwork Orange]

The only thing that will give anyone the slightest shot at Joe Johnson is a max contract and it looks as though the Suns will likely match even that. No way Phoenix lets Johnson get away after trading Richardson, they'd be sorely lacking in three point shooters which was a huge staple of their run & gun attack from a year ago.

I've been reading that the Knicks are willing to dump Stephon Marbury on anyone willing to take on his contract, attitude and ego.

[epicSocialism4tw]

The only thing that will give anyone the slightest shot at Joe Johnson is a max contract and it looks as though the Suns will likely match even that. No way Phoenix lets Johnson get away after trading Richardson, they'd be sorely lacking in three point shooters which was a huge staple of their run & gun attack from a year ago.

I've been reading that the Knicks are willing to dump Stephon Marbury on anyone willing to take on his contract, attitude and ego.


The Suns are talking big, but let's see about that when Atlanta or LAC throws a max contract out there for him to scoop up. With Nash locked up big for another 5 seasons at the max, Stoudemire getting a max extension (6 yrs for probably 15-18 mil/yr), and Marion's contract, you have to wonder what the Suns are really up to.

[yavoon]

The Cavs would be better served by Joe Johnson, and they could get him if they bid high enough. I think that he is actually a much better player than Redd. I really don't know why Redd is getting so much hype. Is he from New York or LA or something? Redd will be nothing more than a poor man's Mike Finley. If Bogut comes on strong, Redd could be really good, but I don't see him (Redd) leading that team anywhere.

On another note: anyone else notice how much Andrew Bogut physically looks like Darko Milicic? I think that Bogut could be a really special player. Great basketball mind and all of the tools to succeed as a center.

really I thot bogut looked stockier and not as lean as darko. I will be impressed if bogut could end up like a vlade divac. that would be a great pickup for milwaukee.

[yavoon]

The only thing that will give anyone the slightest shot at Joe Johnson is a max contract and it looks as though the Suns will likely match even that. No way Phoenix lets Johnson get away after trading Richardson, they'd be sorely lacking in three point shooters which was a huge staple of their run & gun attack from a year ago.

I've been reading that the Knicks are willing to dump Stephon Marbury on anyone willing to take on his contract, attitude and ego.

I wouldn't take marbury if he was given away.

[RhymesayersDU]

Redd's in a Kenyon Martin type situation, he's not exactly a max contract type player, but the open market says that he is. I'm thinking he'll stay with the Bucks, if he doesn't they come out of this looking like the most incompetant front office this side of the Clippers. They could have traded him and got something of value for him last year at the deadline and are now left to sweat it out.

Excellent post. Every summer, there's either a couple of players who are highly coveted, or a position that is so. This summer, it's the shooting guard.

And yes, the Bucks will be the Eastern Conference equivalent of the Clippers if they let him slip. I realize he has Cleveland ties, which may sway him, but as I see it, the Bucks should offer him everything he wants, and let him coach too, a la Kobe Bryant. Seriously, they should give him the moon if he asks for it.

The Nuggets are going to be sweet this year, btw.

[epicSocialism4tw]

really I thot bogut looked stockier and not as lean as darko. I will be impressed if bogut could end up like a vlade divac. that would be a great pickup for milwaukee.

I did not communicate my idea well. I basically meant that the two have very similar faces and bodies. Bogut will outplay Divac. I saw the kid play alot last season and I was really impressed. He had an otherworldy feel for the game. Brilliant passer, excellent rebounder, excellent scorer, good footwork, etc. The guy is a franchise player for certain. I don't really understand why there wasn't as much hype in the media around him as there was for some of the other recent centers to go in the top slot. I would love for my team to take him.

I think that Bogut is more of a mix between Timmy Duncan, Vlade Divac, and Nowitzki. I saw Bogut take centers off of the dribble at the arc and waltz down the lane to nearly tear the rim off.

[Clockwork Orange]

The Nuggets are going to be sweet this year, btw.

If they can land either Bobby Simmons or Cuttino Mobley, I'll be psyched beyond belief. Reports are that Kiki's been in contact with both of their agents.

But if neither of them can be had, Michael Finley may be available before long. I'd consider that a pretty damn good consolation prize.

[RhymesayersDU]

If we get Mobley, I'll wet myself.

[epicSocialism4tw]

If we get Mobley, I'll wet myself.

Mobley and Simmons both will be too expensive for the Nugs. The Nugs are working with the MLE. That leaves them 1 or 2 mil short for either of those guys.

The Nugs should focus on a pure shooting SG who can play some D.

[yavoon]

I did not communicate my idea well. I basically meant that the two have very similar faces and bodies. Bogut will outplay Divac. I saw the kid play alot last season and I was really impressed. He had an otherworldy feel for the game. Brilliant passer, excellent rebounder, excellent scorer, good footwork, etc. The guy is a franchise player for certain. I don't really understand why there wasn't as much hype in the media around him as there was for some of the other recent centers to go in the top slot. I would love for my team to take him.

I think that Bogut is more of a mix between Timmy Duncan, Vlade Divac, and Nowitzki. I saw Bogut take centers off of the dribble at the arc and waltz down the lane to nearly tear the rim off.

meh bogut could succeed, I surely dont know. but if he fails all the telltale signs will have been there, underly athletic, non imposing defensively.

and vlade is good, I think ppl overhype draft prospects, vlade is in the top of centers taken in the last 20 years when u consider just how MANY centers are taken, huge washout position.

and btw stockier and not as lean DOES refer to body types, not sure why u would think it didnt.

[yavoon]

Mobley and Simmons both will be too expensive for the Nugs. The Nugs are working with the MLE. That leaves them 1 or 2 mil short for either of those guys.

The Nugs should focus on a pure shooting SG who can play some D.

haha if bobby simmons gets 6 million a year I will need the heimlich maneuver. omg I mean he's a nobody who has had one impressive(contract) year. this is why what joe dumars did was so special, he actually got good players w/o retardedly inflated stock.

[epicSocialism4tw]

meh bogut could succeed, I surely dont know. but if he fails all the telltale signs will have been there, underly athletic, non imposing defensively.

and vlade is good, I think ppl overhype draft prospects, vlade is in the top of centers taken in the last 20 years when u consider just how MANY centers are taken, huge washout position.

and btw stockier and not as lean DOES refer to body types, not sure why u would think it didnt.

Underly athletic? Have you seen this guy play? He is a legit 7 feet. Not imposing defensively? What does that mean? Sounds like you are walking around having to say that he's 'white'.

Darko Milicic has a pretty solid frame.

[epicSocialism4tw]

haha if bobby simmons gets 6 million a year I will need the heimlich maneuver. omg I mean he's a nobody who has had one impressive(contract) year. this is why what joe dumars did was so special, he actually got good players w/o retardedly inflated stock.

Bobby Simmons is a very effective and versatile SF who happened to win the NBA's most improved player award last season and is still very young. If the market were not flooded with swing players, I would expect Simmons to bring in 7-8 million easy.

[yavoon]

Bobby Simmons is a very effective and versatile SF who happened to win the NBA's most improved player award last season and is still very young. If the market were not flooded with swing players, I would expect Simmons to bring in 7-8 million easy.

sez 1 year. lots of ppl have parlayed contract career years into terminal paycheck cashing. I wouldn't payout to his full potential off of 1 year of performance, thats just nuts.

[yavoon]

Underly athletic? Have you seen this guy play? He is a legit 7 feet. Not imposing defensively? What does that mean? Sounds like you are walking around having to say that he's 'white'.

Darko Milicic has a pretty solid frame.

all the draft coverage on him sounded like this, good footwork, soft touch, great passer as stengths. shotblocking, defense and athleticism as weaknesses. u dont have to believe it i guess, sure maybe he's super athletic(hahahaha) but wutever.

[epicSocialism4tw]

sez 1 year. lots of ppl have parlayed contract career years into terminal paycheck cashing. I wouldn't payout to his full potential off of 1 year of performance, thats just nuts.

That is how the NBA works. Marquis Daniels made well over 5 million for half of a season of play. Ilgauskas will get over 10 million this season. One dimensional Mike Redd will get maxed out along with relatively unproven Joe Johnson. At some point in time, Juwon Howard, Antonio McDyess, Camby, Allen Houston, Eddie Jones, Brian Grant, etc. were all given huge contracts because the market called for it. Demand is high for potential impact players and Simmons is that.

Atlanta still has boucoups of money laying around as do Simmons' Clips and a couple of other teams.

[epicSocialism4tw]

all the draft coverage on him sounded like this, good footwork, soft touch, great passer as stengths. shotblocking, defense and athleticism as weaknesses. u dont have to believe it i guess, sure maybe he's super athletic(hahahaha) but wutever.


Is Tim Duncan super athletic?

Dude, you really are difficult. You talk about players as if you have seen them play with regularity, but come to find out that you actually get all of your information second hand at best.

[yavoon]

Is Tim Duncan super athletic?

Dude, you really are difficult. You talk about players as if you have seen them play with regularity, but come to find out that you actually get all of your information second hand at best.

oh so u think bogut is tim duncan now? dont whine its unseamly, if u actually think something I say is untrue, fine. but dont start this into something else.

I wouldn't dare compare bogut to duncan, but thats me, if u want to tread that line than obviously u r braver than I.

[yavoon]

That is how the NBA works. Marquis Daniels made well over 5 million for half of a season of play. Ilgauskas will get over 10 million this season. One dimensional Mike Redd will get maxed out along with relatively unproven Joe Johnson. At some point in time, Juwon Howard, Antonio McDyess, Camby, Allen Houston, Eddie Jones, Brian Grant, etc. were all given huge contracts because the market called for it. Demand is high for potential impact players and Simmons is that.

Atlanta still has boucoups of money laying around as do Simmons' Clips and a couple of other teams.

well if ur a team that wants to win a championship and u dont have mark cuban(or someone else willing to carry multiple years at 30++ over the cap) as an owner u have to be on the outside of these stupidities. sure lotsa teams overpay, but hey lotsa teams are happy w/ just making the playoffs.

[GSRelyea]

Veteran Mobley has interest in Nuggets
By Marc J. Spears and Adam Thompson
Denver Post Staff Writers

Cuttino Mobley has averaged 17.1 points in his seven seasons in the NBA with three teams. (Getty / Jed Jacobsohn)

Las Vegas - The agent for Sacramento Kings free-agent guard Cuttino Mobley said his client is getting a lot of interest, but the Nuggets are high on his list.

Agent Andy Miller said he spoke to Nuggets general manager Kiki Vandeweghe about his client several times Tuesday. Mobley averaged 17.2 points last season and is one of the NBA's top 3-point shooters - an asset the Nuggets need.

Since the Nuggets may have only the midlevel exception to offer, a sign-and-trade may be needed to consummate a deal for him.

Miller would not discuss other teams that are interested, but the Los Angeles Clippers reportedly are one of them. Sacramento may want to include Mobley in a sign-and-trade after selecting shooting guards Kevin Martin and Francisco Garcia in the past two drafts.

Mobley declined to exercise his option on a contract that would have paid him $6.4 million this coming season. One sign-and-trade scenario could logically include Nene and Voshon Lenard, who are due to make a combined $6.5 million in 2005-06.

Miller said Mobley has a strong relationship with Vandeweghe and coach George Karl, and has said that a visit to Denver isn't necessary for his client.

"We have interest," Miller said. "There are certain teams that have interest who are on the cusp, being one piece away. ... (Mobley) thinks (Karl) can fine-tune his game and make him better while also helping take the team to the playoffs."

Said Karl of Mobley: "I've always felt that he's kind of an all-star, on-the-brink type of guy. ... He's one of the top free-agent shooting guards. We just have to let Kiki work his magic, and hopefully in one week or two weeks or three weeks we have a 30-minute guard. I don't think it's imperative either way.

"One thing I've expressed to Kiki is don't be afraid to be patient."

Meanwhile, one of Denver's internal free-agent candidates at shooting guard remains interested in returning. However, the agent for Greg Buckner guessed that nothing will happen for his client before the Nuggets return from summer league here next week.

"They'd like him back and he'd like to be back, but market forces can send things in different directions," Steve Kauffman said.

Buckner wants a deal that at least approaches the midlevel exception. Kauffman said his client has heard from five or six teams, and Houston is believed to be among them.
Agent Tony Dutt said at least three teams have offered Seattle free-agent guard Antonio Daniels the midlevel exception, but he has not heard from Denver.

[GSRelyea]

Nuggets: We're still scratching our heads over Cuttino Mobley's decision to give up more than $6 million in guaranteed money to opt out of his contract with the Kings. However, it sounds like he's found a suitor in the Nuggets willing to spend their full mid-level for his shooting abilities. Denver is also taking a hard look at Jaric.

Chad Ford covers the NBA for ESPN Insider.

[RhymesayersDU]

Somebody get me some adult diapers, because I'm about to wet myself.

[Nuggets4]

Why? For an undersized gunner who doesn't pass and play defense? No bloody way. I'd rather have Simmons. Hell, I'd rather take a chance on Marko Jaric than take Mobley.

[Tredici]

Why? For an undersized gunner who doesn't pass and play defense? No bloody way. I'd rather have Simmons. Hell, I'd rather take a chance on Marko Jaric than take Mobley.

I was wondering what your opinion would be. No one in Houston was particulary fond of Mobley and were pretty much horrified by the contract and money he was given. -- Most of the talk radio there thought they would never be rid of him because of the salary. I didn't know if that had changed once he actually did go elsewhere. But I would say the kindest words used to describe his play there was underachiever.

[Nuggets4]

He's a gunner. That's it. He doesn't play D and he's not a good passer. He's not as much of a black hole as Steve Francis is (it's a wonder Yao got to touch the ball when they were in Houston), but he's not what we need.

That said, he can light it up when he gets in gear. I'd just rather have a consistent 12-15 ppg with solid D (Simmons) than someone who can go off for 30 one night and 10 the next (Mobley).

Nugs are talking sign-and-trade. Sounds like Nene is the bait.

[GSRelyea]

Nugs are talking sign-and-trade. Sounds like Nene is the bait.

I don't care who we get, I do not want to get rid of Nene. I think that kid could be a special player with the right coaching. Melo & Nene are our FUTURE!!

[Nuggets4]

I'm not on the Nene bandwagon anymore. He doesn't seem to be motivated to be the player he should be. Not to mention it's a crime for someone his size to only be grabbing 6 rebounds a game.

If we can get Simmons for Nene, I'd do it without a second thought. Hell, throw in Boykins and get Jaric as well.

[epicSocialism4tw]

I'm not on the Nene bandwagon anymore. He doesn't seem to be motivated to be the player he should be. Not to mention it's a crime for someone his size to only be grabbing 6 rebounds a game.

If we can get Simmons for Nene, I'd do it without a second thought. Hell, throw in Boykins and get Jaric as well.

Man, that's risky.

With Tim Duncan and Stoudemire in the West, Nene will become a commodity very soon. You have to have a big, strong, athletic 4 to bang with those guys in the post. If you ever want to advance in the playoffs, you will need Nene to do it.

You never trade a big for a guard unless it is an obvious move (Francisco Elson for Simmons, etc.)

[GSRelyea]

I like Simmons, just don't want to over pay for him, I am a little worried that he was just a decent player on a really bad team. There was a good article in the Denver Post on Nene a couple of days ago,

http://www.denverpost.com/nuggets/ci_2837594

[yavoon]

I wouldn't trade nene, with nene having kenyon martin makes more sense. hell u dont even necessarily want or need nene to become uber. sitting behind camby and martin denver has some serious size. lose nene and that image is pretty much gone.

[Master___Pain]

I'll say it again, I think Flip Murray would be an excellent addition that may not cost as much as some of these other names here.

[Nuggets4]

Najera and Elson are servicable back-ups. Kleiza could be there in a year. Nene has value. He's gonna be a free agent soon and he's GONE. He is NOT happy in Denver. He's gotten in fights with Kenyon. We need to get something for him now.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Najera and Elson are servicable back-ups. Kleiza could be there in a year. Nene has value. He's gonna be a free agent soon and he's GONE. He is NOT happy in Denver. He's gotten in fights with Kenyon. We need to get something for him now.

I just read an article that said that he wants to be in Denver, and is trying to work out a contract extension.

[Nuggets4]

I just read an article that said that he wants to be in Denver, and is trying to work out a contract extension.

Don't believe everything you read.

[epicSocialism4tw]

What do you nuggetheads think about a trade of Nene to Dallas? I'm not sure about the salaries, but you guys could possibly trade Nene to Dallas in some manner (might need to add another player) for either Jason Terry or Jerry Stackhouse. Dallas is in the market for a big man.

[Nuggets4]

What do you nuggetheads think about a trade of Nene to Dallas? I'm not sure about the salaries, but you guys could possibly trade Nene to Dallas in some manner (might need to add another player) for either Jason Terry or Jerry Stackhouse. Dallas is in the market for a big man.

You guys going to continue to run your franchise like a bad roto-team? I love Cuban, but he'll never win until he learns to develop some chemistry.

[epicSocialism4tw]

This trade would work:

Dallas: JET Terry, DJ Mbenga

Denver: Nene, Najera, Lenard

or this one:

Dal: Jason Terry
Den: Nene, Najera

[epicSocialism4tw]

You guys going to continue to run your franchise like a bad roto-team? I love Cuban, but he'll never win until he learns to develop some chemistry.

Dirk was the team last season. He had an outstanding season. Terry proved that he was a rare big gamer as well, but other than that, the only consistent thing about the team's play was that everyone outside of Dirk was inconsistent. They won 58 games (missed winning the division over the champion Spurs by a game and a half) and barely missed the conference finals. That's pretty good for a 'roto-team' in its first season. I'm sure that you guys would be talking championship 2006 if you got that result. There is nothing bad about it. This was a transition season for Dallas and it exceeded any of our local expectations by a mile.

Dallas needs a backup 4/5 who is athletic and can defend the post. That is their top priority in the offseason. Nene fits the bill.

[bloodsunday]

Nugs are talking sign-and-trade. Sounds like Nene is the bait.

I don't care who we get, I do not want to get rid of Nene. I think that kid could be a special player with the right coaching. Melo & Nene are our FUTURE!!
Amen. Don't forget that Martin and Camby are made of paper meche and we need the depth.

[Nuggets4]

This trade would work:

Dallas: JET Terry, DJ Mbenga

Denver: Nene, Najera, Lenard

or this one:

Dal: Jason Terry
Den: Nene, Najera

Let me know when you're back from fantasy land.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Let me know when you're back from fantasy land.

Jason Terry is a proven veteran performer with ice in his viens. His value increased significantly over the course of the playoffs, IMO. I'm sure that he would demand a pretty significant return on a trade. Especially from a contender.

Nene is a backup with potential. Najera is cap filler (I know all about Eddie).

[RhymesayersDU]

Nene is a douche. A brazillian douche at that.

I'd package Earl and Nene for the rights to a 10-piece McNugget and a McFlurry, straight up. I think the salaries would match too.

[FADERPROOF]

I think that was james' whole sell was that he had kobe/mcgrady athletic skills and could play point. magic johnson w/ a 40 inch vertical.

of course now it isnt looking like that.

Whatever his whole sell may be, I don't think there are 5 guys in the league I'd take over LBJ, whether he runs the point or not.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Whatever his whole sell may be, I don't think there are 5 guys in the league I'd take over LBJ, whether he runs the point or not.

James has all the tools. The guy will be unstoppable when he decides that he wants to win games. He averaged 27/7/7 this season. Those are hall of fame numbers. He also averaged an excellent 2.2 steals. James is no joke.

[yavoon]

James has all the tools. The guy will be unstoppable when he decides that he wants to win games. He averaged 27/7/7 this season. Those are hall of fame numbers. He also averaged an excellent 2.2 steals. James is no joke.

not to incite or anything but is dirk gna develop a real post game? i'm honestly interested, I picked mavs to make it to finals this year and then I saw what happened to dirk and I'm like "yow." I mean next time they put a shooting guard on dirk is it possible he could get some dunks and beat the crap outta them? or is he just too soft?

[RhymesayersDU]

The guy will be unstoppable when he decides that he wants to win games.

I don't understand what you mean by this. Do you think he's slacking? The way I see things, the only way the Cavs win any games period is with him carrying them on his shoulders. I think he's taking games over now not because of selfishness, but because of necesity. It's either he does it, or it's another one in the loss column. I don't even think he has a choice in the matter.

[GSRelyea]

Asking price wrong answer
Bobby Simmons' agent says Denver likely won't be able to pay what the perimeter player will get.
By Adam Thompson
Denver Post Staff Writer

Las Vegas - Plenty of swingmen could fit the Nuggets' needs for a 3-point shooter this summer. But based on the talk of his agent, it doesn't look like Bobby Simmons has a good chance of being the one.

Mark Bartelstein made it sound as though his client, a free-agent small forward named the NBA's most improved player this spring with the Los Angeles Clippers, may be asking for more than Denver can give.

"He's going to get offered a lot more than the midlevel," Bartelstein said Wednesday, referring to the midlevel exception of about $5 million. "The Nuggets are a great situation. I just don't know with their salary cap limitations if it's a likely situation."

Bartelstein added that while a sign-and-trade deal could land Simmons in Denver, nothing is brewing on that front.

Another possible candidate whose odds of landing in Denver seem small at the moment is Charlotte's Kareem Rush.

His agent, Calvin Andrews, said Wednesday of the Nuggets: "They haven't reached out to me. I haven't reached out to them. ... He's probably way down on their list or not on their list."


Karl comes full circle
George Karl watched Denver's summer league games from the stands at Cox Pavilion this time last year. He said he much prefers his current seat on the Nuggets' bench, helping young players earn jobs in the NBA or European leagues.

Asked if he could recall his mind-set 12 months ago, Karl replied: "I went through stages where I lost my confidence, wondering if I'd ever get another job. Then there were times when I was confident. I know that I enjoy just being in a gym. Waking up every day and being in a gym is a happy moment for me."

Karl has been relatively hands-on in practices, a major change from his old attitude toward this time of year.

"I think I missed some summer leagues," he said. "I usually just stopped in to go to dinner, play golf and hang out with my staff."

Karl said he appreciates his players' hard work, but guessed the Nuggets' summer league opener tonight against New Jersey could be sloppy for a group that has had only three practices together.

No rush on Nene
Michael Coyne, the agent for Nuggets forward Nene, said it was "impossible to tell" anything from the recent spate of rumors about his client getting traded.

"We'll see what happens," Coyne said. "I'm heartened that he's seemingly in such great demand."

Coyne added that he will wait to give the NBA's new collective bargaining agreement a close read before initiating any extension talks with the Nuggets. Nene's contract expires next summer.

"I'm a lawyer, so I'm a stickler for reading the rules," Coyne said. "There's no hurry to sign an extension from our perspective."

Footnotes
Nuggets forward Carmelo Anthony is scheduled to join the team Sunday for informal workouts. Anthony will appear at the 13th ESPY Awards in Hollywood, to air July 17 on ESPN. ... Rookie forward Ricky Sanchez celebrated his 18th birthday Wednesday. "This is my gift, to be here," he said of his new job. "I'm not here to party or something. I'm just here to concentrate on work. When I go back home, I can have a party then."

Adam Thompson can be reached at 303-820-5447 or athompson@denverpost.com.

[Nuggets4]

Bobby Simmons' agent says Denver likely won't be able to pay what the perimeter player will get.

****.

[epicSocialism4tw]

I don't understand what you mean by this. Do you think he's slacking? The way I see things, the only way the Cavs win any games period is with him carrying them on his shoulders. I think he's taking games over now not because of selfishness, but because of necesity. It's either he does it, or it's another one in the loss column. I don't even think he has a choice in the matter.


I wouldn't necessarily call it 'slacking'...maybe 'waiting'.

[epicSocialism4tw]

not to incite or anything but is dirk gna develop a real post game? i'm honestly interested, I picked mavs to make it to finals this year and then I saw what happened to dirk and I'm like "yow." I mean next time they put a shooting guard on dirk is it possible he could get some dunks and beat the crap outta them? or is he just too soft?

Dirk scored pretty well in the post all season. His game is in the high post because he is a shooting threat. The problem in the playoffs with his low post scoring was that the officials called the game a little differently and he had problems adjusting. Dirk didn't get calls when the guys in the restricted area would rotate and stand in front of the rim, so he took the hits and didn't get the whistles. People seem to think that it was a problem with a small forward guarding him, but he was still able to get around the guard most of the time. The problem was at the rim. He has to find a way to take those hits and still get the ball in the basket.

Dirk is not 'soft.' That is the same old white guy misnomer. He plays injured all the time, gets nearly 10 boards a game, and has improved his defense dramatically over the past season. Dirk is now a legit man defender. He needs to improve his transition defense awareness, but other than that he's an all-around player now. IMO, the problem with Dirk and low post play is that he does not have enough core strength to have abolute control while backing a guy like Marion down. He can still get it done, but it's risky because he can get double teamed by a help defender and turn the ball over.

Dirk is a unique player. His game is not a post up game and he can still score nearly at will. Dirk has also been known to up his level of play in the playoffs, and I don't think that that really changed this season. I think that the perception was that Dirk and McGrady would have a shootout, but Dirk didn't score as much as McGrady. He did, however, have a solid series that was no different than Duncan's series that won him the Finals MVP. He played outstanding defense in that series and came up with several game winning plays on either end of the floor.

Dirk's problem was also that he did not have consistent help. I still think Dallas wins that Phoenix series if Jason Terry doesn't let Nash step right into an open game tying three at the end of game 6.

[yavoon]

Dirk scored pretty well in the post all season. His game is in the high post because he is a shooting threat. The problem in the playoffs with his low post scoring was that the officials called the game a little differently and he had problems adjusting. Dirk didn't get calls when the guys in the restricted area would rotate and stand in front of the rim, so he took the hits and didn't get the whistles. People seem to think that it was a problem with a small forward guarding him, but he was still able to get around the guard most of the time. The problem was at the rim. He has to find a way to take those hits and still get the ball in the basket.

Dirk is not 'soft.' That is the same old white guy misnomer. He plays injured all the time, gets nearly 10 boards a game, and has improved his defense dramatically over the past season. Dirk is now a legit man defender. He needs to improve his transition defense awareness, but other than that he's an all-around player now. IMO, the problem with Dirk and low post play is that he does not have enough core strength to have abolute control while backing a guy like Marion down. He can still get it done, but it's risky because he can get double teamed by a help defender and turn the ball over.

Dirk is a unique player. His game is not a post up game and he can still score nearly at will. Dirk has also been known to up his level of play in the playoffs, and I don't think that that really changed this season. I think that the perception was that Dirk and McGrady would have a shootout, but Dirk didn't score as much as McGrady. He did, however, have a solid series that was no different than Duncan's series that won him the Finals MVP. He played outstanding defense in that series and came up with several game winning plays on either end of the floor.

Dirk's problem was also that he did not have consistent help. I still think Dallas wins that Phoenix series if Jason Terry doesn't let Nash step right into an open game tying three at the end of game 6.

I dont mean soft as in not playing injurd I mean soft as in not liking contact. and its all good that dirk is unique but when they guard u w/ a shooting guard u need to be like "hey I'm 7 feet tall lets annhilate this lanky little prick in the box." its one thing if dirk can't score in te block against tim duncan, it sanother thing if he can't beatup tracy mcfrickin grady down low.

I think its obvious that dirk right now plays like a SF. he needs to AT THE VERY LEAST be able to beat the crap outta these skinny guys in the post or those are all the ppl who are gonig to guard him. and the high post is again how u abuse slower bigs its not how u abuse marion or mcgrady, they are perfectly happy playing dirk in the high post.

[yavoon]

also about not enough help, cuban can't really spend more money, can he? I mean HOW MANY MORE PLAYERS DO U WANT. u know lotsa teams AREN'T 50 million dollars over the cap and somehow they still win. I dont believe this help crap, dirk has all sorts of talent around him. if its ill used thats something they need to figur eout but the bull**** about dirk standing alone is frankly a little gay coming from a team as spend happy as the mavs.

[epicSocialism4tw]

also about not enough help, cuban can't really spend more money, can he? I mean HOW MANY MORE PLAYERS DO U WANT. u know lotsa teams AREN'T 50 million dollars over the cap and somehow they still win. I dont believe this help crap, dirk has all sorts of talent around him. if its ill used thats something they need to figur eout but the bull**** about dirk standing alone is frankly a little gay coming from a team as spend happy as the mavs.


Frankly a little gay? And you wonder why people on this board don't like to respond to your posts?

Dirk did stand alone this season. I watched every game. He was the Mavs this season. That's why he was third in MVP voting and a 1st team all-NBA'er (a top-5 player persay). Dirk had an outstanding all-around season.

I suggest that you find some tape and actually watch the games rather than play fantasy manager and wonder why people say things like that. He has talent there, but most of it is old and tired and reduced to role playing (Stackhouse, Finley, Van Horn, Henderson, Armsstrong, etc.), and the rest of it is still developing (Howard, Daniels, Harris, Podkolzin, Mbenga). Josh Howard will be an excellent multi-dimensional player in the NBA (almost identical to Tayshaun Prince but can take his defender off of the dribble and attacks the offensive boards like Marion), but he is not there yet. Josh was the Mavs' second best player last season and he is a 2nd year guy.

The Mavs still have a 'big 3', but two of those guys are not quite there yet (Terry and Howard). They should be better this season. The rest of those guys are situational or role players.

[yavoon]

Frankly a little gay? And you wonder why people on this board don't like to respond to your posts?

Dirk did stand alone this season. I watched every game. He was the Mavs this season. That's why he was third in MVP voting and a 1st team all-NBA'er (a top-5 player persay). Dirk had an outstanding all-around season.

I suggest that you find some tape and actually watch the games rather than play fantasy manager and wonder why people say things like that. He has talent there, but most of it is old and tired and reduced to role playing (Stackhouse, Finley, Van Horn, Henderson, Armsstrong, etc.), and the rest of it is still developing (Howard, Daniels, Harris, Podkolzin, Mbenga). Josh Howard will be an excellent multi-dimensional player in the NBA (almost identical to Tayshaun Prince but can take his defender off of the dribble and attacks the offensive boards like Marion), but he is not there yet. Josh was the Mavs' second best player last season and he is a 2nd year guy.

The Mavs still have a 'big 3', but two of those guys are not quite there yet (Terry and Howard). They should be better this season. The rest of those guys are situational or role players.

haha only on the mavs would call jerry stackhouse a role player, he's a #2 scorer on most other teams. maybe dirk just never makes his teammates better? I mean the mavs regularly have a very talented and deep team, if u put timmie on the mavs they might win 70.

tayshaun prince isnt nearly as good as ppl seem to say. I think josh howard could easily be better than tayshaun.

and dont get whiney just because I say whats obvious, the mavs are a very deep and talented team taht is massively over the cap. honestly if that supporting cast still looks bad I'd blame the head dog.

[epicSocialism4tw]

haha only on the mavs would call jerry stackhouse a role player, he's a #2 scorer on most other teams. maybe dirk just never makes his teammates better? I mean the mavs regularly have a very talented and deep team, if u put timmie on the mavs they might win 70.

tayshaun prince isnt nearly as good as ppl seem to say. I think josh howard could easily be better than tayshaun.

and dont get whiney just because I say whats obvious, the mavs are a very deep and talented team taht is massively over the cap. honestly if that supporting cast still looks bad I'd blame the head dog.


What's obvious to some may be cliche to others.

[yavoon]

What's obvious to some may be cliche to others.

all the great players inevitably make their teammates look much better than they are. shaq, duncan, jordan, look at the contracts they have gotten for their role players(like say derek fisher). ur basically telling me everyone when they come to the mavs looks worse and plays worse and becomes outperformed by a pretty good second year player.

I dont know man, thats not encouraging.

[GSRelyea]

Coveted free agent Michael Redd agreed Thursday to re-sign with the Milwaukee Bucks, choosing to stay with the only NBA team he's played for over LeBron James and the Cleveland Cavaliers.

"He's going to get a max deal in Milwaukee for $90 to $96 million, depending on what the cap is, over six years," Redd's agent, Kevin Poston, told The Associated Press early Thursday afternoon. "Michael started his career in Milwaukee and hopes to end it there, too.

"It was a tough decision between the Bucks and the Cavaliers, but Michael's heart is in Milwaukee and he's excited about his future there," Poston added.

Redd, who was the top remaining free agent available, met with James and Cavs officials in Cleveland on Wednesday, one day after meeting with the Bucks.

The 6-foot-6 shooting guard averaged a career-high 23 points, 4.2 rebounds and 2.3 assists last season. He has averaged 17.7 points while making 39.4 percent of his 3-point shots since Milwaukee drafted him in second round, with the 43rd overall pick, in the 2000 NBA draft.

Poston said Redd, who turns 26 in August, is excited about playing with former Utah center Andrew Bogut, the No. 1 pick overall in last month's draft, and for the Bucks' next coach.

"Michael had Andrew have spoken at great length and are really looking forward to starting something special in Milwaukee," said Poston, an agent based in suburban Detroit. "We also know who the Bucks are focused in on to be their next coach, and Michael is very comfortable with him."

The Bucks signed Bogut to a multiyear contract last week and have been searching for a new coach since firing Terry Porter last month. ESPN.com's Andy Katz reported Thursday that the Bucks are expected to hire Warriors assistant Terry Stotts.

[FADERPROOF]

I don't understand what you mean by this. Do you think he's slacking? The way I see things, the only way the Cavs win any games period is with him carrying them on his shoulders. I think he's taking games over now not because of selfishness, but because of necesity. It's either he does it, or it's another one in the loss column. I don't even think he has a choice in the matter.


Basically verbatim of what I was going to say, James is the only thing keeping the Cavs sinking ship afloat.

[FADERPROOF]

Coveted free agent Michael Redd agreed Thursday to re-sign with the Milwaukee Bucks, choosing to stay with the only NBA team he's played for over LeBron James and the Cleveland Cavaliers.

"He's going to get a max deal in Milwaukee for $90 to $96 million, depending on what the cap is, over six years," Redd's agent, Kevin Poston, told The Associated Press early Thursday afternoon. "Michael started his career in Milwaukee and hopes to end it there, too.

"It was a tough decision between the Bucks and the Cavaliers, but Michael's heart is in Milwaukee and he's excited about his future there," Poston added.

Redd, who was the top remaining free agent available, met with James and Cavs officials in Cleveland on Wednesday, one day after meeting with the Bucks.

The 6-foot-6 shooting guard averaged a career-high 23 points, 4.2 rebounds and 2.3 assists last season. He has averaged 17.7 points while making 39.4 percent of his 3-point shots since Milwaukee drafted him in second round, with the 43rd overall pick, in the 2000 NBA draft.

Poston said Redd, who turns 26 in August, is excited about playing with former Utah center Andrew Bogut, the No. 1 pick overall in last month's draft, and for the Bucks' next coach.

"Michael had Andrew have spoken at great length and are really looking forward to starting something special in Milwaukee," said Poston, an agent based in suburban Detroit. "We also know who the Bucks are focused in on to be their next coach, and Michael is very comfortable with him."

The Bucks signed Bogut to a multiyear contract last week and have been searching for a new coach since firing Terry Porter last month. ESPN.com's Andy Katz reported Thursday that the Bucks are expected to hire Warriors assistant Terry Stotts.

3rd option for the Cavs yet again, boy we suck.

[GSRelyea]

FROM A CHAT W/ CHAD FORD....

MileHighMelo ( Denver, CO): Hey Chad, I'm hearing a lot of buzz about the Nuggs sending Nene and Vo Lenard to the Kings for Mobely...anything to that other than rumors?

Chad Ford: The Nuggets like Mobley and really need a two guard who can stroke it. But I don't think they'd part with Nene to do it. If they would, the Kings should make that trade in a heartbeat. Depending on where the cap comes in, the Nuggets could either use their mid-level exception or cap room to get him signed.

[epicSocialism4tw]

all the great players inevitably make their teammates look much better than they are. shaq, duncan, jordan, look at the contracts they have gotten for their role players(like say derek fisher). ur basically telling me everyone when they come to the mavs looks worse and plays worse and becomes outperformed by a pretty good second year player.

I dont know man, thats not encouraging.


You make some disjointed assumptions.

You assume: great players make others better, but good players come to Dallas and become worse. This assumption is based on the fact that I said that Dallas' roster is not as potent as you suspect. You infer that Dirk is not a great player because of that assumption. There are several examples of players that have played alongside Dirk in Dallas and parlayed those seasons into valuable contracts or advancement in playing time/responsability on other teams. Van Exel is the most obvious example. Jason Terry is the current example. Same with Raja Bell, Antawn Jamison, Calvin Booth, Marquis Daniels, Eddie Najera and others.

My point is not that Dallas is not talent-laden, it is that the talent that is here is not as good as you think. There are plenty of talented players on the roster, but there is no one consistent enough to take some pressure off of Dirk. Stackhouse can score, but he is not a #2 scorer. Maybe on the Clippers or Atlanta or Charlotte, but not on a legit contender. Definately not in Dallas where everyone and their dog can score. Dallas has no legit #2 standout player to share the burden with Dirk. Different guys contribute different things and do so pretty consistently. If Dallas had a Paul Pierce or a Ron Artest or a Chauncy Billups or Rasheed Wallace, you would see a different team and Dirk would likely average 30ppg.

[GSRelyea]

WHO INTERESTED THE SKINNY

Stephon Marbury
Knicks Hawks?
76ers? Marbury in the Middle
<Jul. 7> Knicks president Isiah Thomas is denying reports that he is shopping his star player, Stephon Marbury. According to the New York Times and the Daily News, Thomas had this to say concerning the rumors: "That is so far from the truth. And I'm ashamed for you guys that you even have to ask me that, because there is absolutely no truth to it at all."
When told that several general managers confirmed that they had talked to Thomas about Marbury, the former Bad Boy erupted. "Tell the GMs, whoever the GM is, to put his name on it," Thomas said.

The New York Times had reported last week that two sources said the Knicks are open to moving Marbury. While ESPN Insider Chad Ford reported Marbury rumors concerning a sign-and-trade with the Sixers for center Samuel Dalembert and also a potential deal with the Hawks for forward Al Harrington.

WHO INTERESTED THE SKINNY

Nene Hilario
Nuggets Kings? King Nene?
<Jul. 7> Apparently the Nuggets don't like the sound of that. Sacramento has shown interest in Nene and there have been rumblings about a sign-and-trade scenario involving him and Kings free agent guard Cuttino Mobley. But Nuggets general manager Kiki Vandeweghe said he is not shopping his power forward, the Rocky Mountain News reports.
"I am not looking to trade Nene," Vandeweghe said. "I like him. I view him as one of our core guys."

WHO INTERESTED THE SKINNY

Stromile Swift
Grizzlies Knicks?
76ers?
Rockets? Swift fits in Houston
<Jul. 7> Stromile Swift met with the Rockets yesterday and came away impressed, the Houston Chronicle reports. "Just looking from the outside, I can see the chemistry. They have a good team, a good coaching staff," Swift said. "For me, I think that's something I want to be a part of, a winning team, and hopefully I can come in and add on to what they built here and try to help them try to bring home a championship."
Swift's youth and athleticism make him attractive to the Rockets. However, the club can only offer him the mid-level exception because they are over the salary cap, which might be a deciding factor. "A lot of times people say the dollars aren't important, but they really are," Swift said. "For me, I'm going to try to wait it out and weigh my options and see what's the best situation for me."

Wednesday, July 6
WHO INTERESTED THE SKINNY

Joe Johnson
Suns Suns Mo' Joe
<Jul. 6> The Suns want Joe Johnson back and have made him a contract offer, the Arizona Republic reports. The team has made it known that the restricted free agent is a top priority and now await his response.
WHO INTERESTED THE SKINNY

Robert Horry
Spurs Spurs Horry prefers Spurs
<Jul. 6> According to the San Antonio Express-News, Big Shot Rob has agreed to a three-year deal with the Spurs, putting to rest any ideas of a reunion with Shaq in Miami.

[DBroncos4life]

3rd option for the Cavs yet again, boy we suck.


yep

[epicSocialism4tw]

Basically verbatim of what I was going to say, James is the only thing keeping the Cavs sinking ship afloat.


The Cavs didn't look very much afloat at the end of the season. That ship was in the undertow.

James is young. He has not yet understood that he can do whatever the heck he wants on the court. If he wants the ball, all he has to do is take it. If he wants to score, he has nothing stopping him. He is that talented. The guy is a freak of nature. When he realizes that all he wants to do is win and there is nothing stopping him, he will enter the pantheon of all-time greats. Until that happens he will continue acting like a 18-20 year old and laugh and joke on the bench in garbage time with his team losing yet again while his team falls apart and goes from having home court advantage to giving up playoff spots to the Sixers and Nets (ugh).

He just has to grow up a little and realize what his resposability is as a potential 20 million dollar player and that is to do everything possible to ensure victories. If that means averaging 35 points, 10 assists, and 10 boards, he needs to make it happen. He can. He's that talented.

[GSRelyea]

Doug Christie
Magic Magic? Christie wants out of Orlando
<Jul. 6> Doug Christie never got it going with the Magic and after his season-ending ankle surgery, he demanded a trade. And even with all of the front-office changes, he's still looking to get out, Florida Today reports.
"Hopefully he'll have a change of mind," new head coach Brian Hill said, "because I think Doug is a pretty good basketball player, especially at the defensive end of the floor. I'd love to have him back here to try and fit in with this team."

Cuttino Mobley
Kings Nuggets?
Clippers? Mountain time for Mobley?
<Jul. 6> The Nuggets are high on Cuttino Mobley's list. According to the Denver Post, Mobley's agent, Andy Miller, spoke to Nuggets general manager Kiki Vandeweghe several times Tuesday. Said Miller: "(Mobley) thinks (Karl) can fine-tune his game and make him better while also helping take the team to the playoffs."
Mobley, who declined his option with Sacramento, would fill a need for Denver -- 3-point shooting. However, the Nuggets may have only the mid-level exception to offer, so a sign-and-trade may be in order. According to the Rocky Mountain News, the Kings want Nene.

The Los Angeles Clippers are also reportedly interested in Mobley, says the Post.

Shareef Abdur-Rahim
Trail Blazers Spurs?
Heat?
Magic?
Nets? Moving Forward
<Jul. 6> The Nets are doing everything they can to land some frontcourt help, including enlisting the help of Jay-Z perhaps. According to the New York Daily News, the Nets will give Abdur-Rahim the red-carpet treatment starting today during his two-day visit to New Jersey as they try to convince the power forward to take the $4.9 million they have available.
But, Aaron Goodwin, Abdur-Rahim's agent, said last week that it is "doubtful" he'd take lesser money to go to New Jersey. The only draw might be Lawrence Frank and Jason Kidd. Frank was a scout and assistant with the Vancouver Grizzlies in 1997 when Abdur-Rahim played up north. And Kidd and Abdur-Rahim both played college ball at Cal.

Abdur-Rahim is also slated to visit Sacramento, says the Daily News.

Greg Buckner
Nuggets Nuggets?
Rockets? Who's got Buckner's back?
<Jul. 6> The Denver Post is reporting that Greg Buckner is still interested in returning to the Nuggets. "They'd like him back and he'd like to be back," Buckner's agent, Steve Kauffman, said.
Buckner is looking for a deal that at least approaches the mid-level exception range. Kauffman also said his client has heard from five or six teams, with Houston believed to be among them.

Bobby Simmons
Clippers Clippers?
Rockets? It's Bobby's world
<Jul. 6> The Clippers are keeping an eye on Bobby Simmons, the L.A. Times reports. "They're trying to do everything they can to improve their team, so I think they're looking at a lot of different things," Simmons' agent, Mark Bartelstein, said of the Clippers. "But they've certainly made it clear that they want Bobby back."
The Times also said that the Houston Rockets are among the teams interested in Simmons, an unrestricted free agent and the league's most improved player.

Marko Jaric
Clippers Clippers?
Nuggets? Marko on the market
<Jul. 6> According to the L.A. Times, the Clippers are expected to renew talks about re-signing Jaric. But they may have competition in the Denver Nuggets, who are among the teams interested in the restricted free agent point guard.

[FADERPROOF]

The Cavs didn't look very much afloat at the end of the season. That ship was in the undertow.

James is young. He has not yet understood that he can do whatever the heck he wants on the court. If he wants the ball, all he has to do is take it. If he wants to score, he has nothing stopping him. He is that talented. The guy is a freak of nature. When he realizes that all he wants to do is win and there is nothing stopping him, he will enter the pantheon of all-time greats. Until that happens he will continue acting like a 18-20 year old and laugh and joke on the bench in garbage time with his team losing yet again while his team falls apart and goes from having home court advantage to giving up playoff spots to the Sixers and Nets (ugh).

He just has to grow up a little and realize what his resposability is as a potential 20 million dollar player and that is to do everything possible to ensure victories. If that means averaging 35 points, 10 assists, and 10 boards, he needs to make it happen. He can. He's that talented.

Us Cavs fans wouldn't be ****ting ourselves over him possibly leaving if we don't improve if he didn't want to win. He wants to win and hes not staying here if we can't put a team together to do so.

Him down the stretch was unreal, he was scoring 30+ all the time, we just couldn't put it together on defense and no one else stepped up, he had 56 points in a loss to the Raptors and 44 points in a loss to the Knicks down the sretch that took us out of the playoffs. The guy scored as much as he could and did as much as he could, and if the rest of the Cavs roster weren't filled with CBA like players(excluding Z), then Cleveland would've been a playoff team.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Us Cavs fans wouldn't be ****ting ourselves over him possibly leaving if we don't improve if he didn't want to win. He wants to win and hes not staying here if we can't put a team together to do so.

Him down the stretch was unreal, he was scoring 30+ all the time, we just couldn't put it together on defense and no one else stepped up, he had 56 points in a loss to the Raptors and 44 points in a loss to the Knicks down the sretch that took us out of the playoffs. The guy scored as much as he could and did as much as he could, and if the rest of the Cavs roster weren't filled with CBA like players(excluding Z), then Cleveland would've been a playoff team.

James has a decent scoring center. He just needs to make it known on the floor that he is THE guy on both ends. Jordan suffered the same problem as a young player. He had the stats, but his team didn't win right away. They needed Jordan to demand excellence. Jordan became a tough guy to play beside, but he also turned that team into a champion and backed up his demands with otherworldly play. LeBron can be that good, or he can take the Magic Johnson path and be an amicable guy on a team full of hall of famers. In Cleveland it looks as though he will have to take the Jordan path.

[DBroncos4life]

Us Cavs fans wouldn't be ****ting ourselves over him possibly leaving if we don't improve if he didn't want to win. He wants to win and hes not staying here if we can't put a team together to do so.

Him down the stretch was unreal, he was scoring 30+ all the time, we just couldn't put it together on defense and no one else stepped up, he had 56 points in a loss to the Raptors and 44 points in a loss to the Knicks down the sretch that took us out of the playoffs. The guy scored as much as he could and did as much as he could, and if the rest of the Cavs roster weren't filled with CBA like players(excluding Z), then Cleveland would've been a playoff team.


I think we could build a team around Z, Gooden, and Keith comin off the bench but 3 starters and one role player isn't enough in the NBA anymore.

[yavoon]

You make some disjointed assumptions.

You assume: great players make others better, but good players come to Dallas and become worse. This assumption is based on the fact that I said that Dallas' roster is not as potent as you suspect. You infer that Dirk is not a great player because of that assumption. There are several examples of players that have played alongside Dirk in Dallas and parlayed those seasons into valuable contracts or advancement in playing time/responsability on other teams. Van Exel is the most obvious example. Jason Terry is the current example. Same with Raja Bell, Antawn Jamison, Calvin Booth, Marquis Daniels, Eddie Najera and others.

My point is not that Dallas is not talent-laden, it is that the talent that is here is not as good as you think. There are plenty of talented players on the roster, but there is no one consistent enough to take some pressure off of Dirk. Stackhouse can score, but he is not a #2 scorer. Maybe on the Clippers or Atlanta or Charlotte, but not on a legit contender. Definately not in Dallas where everyone and their dog can score. Dallas has no legit #2 standout player to share the burden with Dirk. Different guys contribute different things and do so pretty consistently. If Dallas had a Paul Pierce or a Ron Artest or a Chauncy Billups or Rasheed Wallace, you would see a different team and Dirk would likely average 30ppg.

ur right dallas doesn't have 2 superstars, but detroit doesnt even have 1. and dallas has a boatload of ppl(relative to other teams) who can score 30 pts on a given night.

oh and trust me wanting rasheed wallace is a dangerous gambit. detroit is a very strong team behind ben wallace and chauncey billups. lots of other teams would get destroyed by rasheed, he is easily the most talented player in detroit and at times he's the 5th or 6th most productive. he dissappears, is lazy, is annoyingly self confident even after obvious ASSRAPINGLY BAD MISTAKES. u still get a great talent, but omg it costs u a lot to do it. its almost like a deal w/ the devil.

also chauncey is somewhat a creation of larry brown and necesssity. prince and hamilton have no real handle and rasheed has no interest in doing something useful like banging in the post, so chauncey has the ball in his hands pretty much all the time, he is the clutch scorer, he is the everything on that offense because well, there's no1 else who can do it. on dallas there's like 4 other ppl sometimes on the court together who could take te ball at the top of the key and initiate.

[Nuggets4]

Too much Mavs talk in here.

This might cheer DF up. Not sure how reliable this link is (they're usually pretty good on draft stuff, not sure about free agency), but Hughes is a damn good signing.

http://www.nbadraft.net/prevenas044.asp

[SoCalBronco]

Just heard on the Southern California Sports Report tonight on FoxSportsWest that the Nuggets are unlikely to sign Bobby Simmons for salary cap reasons.

Just the messenger.

[Master___Pain]

Just heard on the Southern California Sports Report tonight on FoxSportsWest that the Nuggets are unlikely to sign Bobby Simmons for salary cap reasons.

Just the messenger.

No big suprise there.

I hope they make a run at Flip Murray. :thumbs:

[MadCity]

Too much Mavs talk in here.

This might cheer DF up. Not sure how reliable this link is (they're usually pretty good on draft stuff, not sure about free agency), but Hughes is a damn good signing.

http://www.nbadraft.net/prevenas044.asp

I'm surprised there hasn't been more of a clamor for Larry Hughes services. The guy can shoot from the outside and he's an all NBA defender.

[Nuggets4]

No big suprise there.

I hope they make a run at Flip Murray. :thumbs:

IMO (and just my opinion on this one), Murray doesn't do anything that we don't already get from DeMarr Johnson. I knew Simmons was a huge long shot, but I had a dream. Unfortunately, I'm not really impressed with anyone else out there in our range.

[RhymesayersDU]

Cuttino Mobley is going to look so good in powder blue.

John Mobley had an good Broncos career, why can't Cuttino Mobley have a good Nuggets career? :)

[Master___Pain]

IMO (and just my opinion on this one), Murray doesn't do anything that we don't already get from DeMarr Johnson. I knew Simmons was a huge long shot, but I had a dream. Unfortunately, I'm not really impressed with anyone else out there in our range.

I don't really disagree with you but isn't Dermarr a FA? If the nuggs were to return the same team as last year I would be fine with that.

No Cutino though. We don't need a 30 year old ball hog.

[RhymesayersDU]

I would have a problem with us returning the same team. I realize building a championship team isn't going to happen right away, and we're still not going to win it this year... But we should be continually improving.

DerMarr is the man though, dude can jump out of the building.

And on the Cuttino point, maybe it's spin, I don't know, but I think we DO need a player like that. People will call him a ballhog, but the fact is, IMO we need somebody who wants the ball and wants to score. If we can get a legitimate second scoring threat, it's going to open things up for Melo in a big way. There's obviously a fine line to be walked between ballhog and scorer, but you know, there was an article about how WR's are all selfish by nature, and I think that kinda applies. We need somebody who wants to take the shot, I think.

[Nuggets4]

I don't really disagree with you but isn't Dermarr a FA? If the nuggs were to return the same team as last year I would be fine with that.

No Cutino though. We don't need a 30 year old ball hog.

DeMarr is a FA. I'd just much rather give him $2 mil a year than throw the entire MLE at Flip.

I'm really not looking forward to the Cuttino era in Denver. Hopefully Kiki knows what he's doing.

[Clockwork Orange]

I honestly believe that the Nuggets are waiting for the Mavs to release Michael Finley. It makes the most sense.

[Nuggets4]

It's also the riskiest plan. That might not happen until August 1st. By that point, there are no 2-guards out there worth a damn. If we fail on Finley (DetRiot is high on him and if JJ goes to Atlanta, Phoenix will want him), we fail with no shot at recovery.

[yavoon]

I dont understand tis at all! atlanta wants joe johnson. how many SF type players are they going to have? yah ok joe johnson can be a backup pg or play sg I guess. but he's 6'8, they also have al arrington josh childress and marvin williams! do they want to start a team based solely on vertical?

[DBroncos4life]

Updated: July 8, 2005, 1:13 PM ET
Deal believed to be worth $65M to $70MBy Chad Ford
ESPN Insider



Larry Hughes has come to terms with the Cleveland Cavaliers on a five-year deal, his agent, Jeff Wechsler, told ESPN Insider Chad Ford.

Larry Hughes
Shooting Guard
Washington Wizards
Profile


2004-2005 SEASON STATISTICS
GM PPG RPG APG FG% FT%
61 22.0 6.3 4.7 .430 .777



"Larry intends to sign a contract with the Cavs when the moritorium ends," Wechsler said.

Wechsler wouldn't comment on the actual numbers of the deal, but it's believed to be a five-year deal between $65 million and $70 million.

Wechsler told Insider that he informed Washington Wizards GM Ernie Grunfeld on Thursday that Hughes is going in a different direction.


Grunfeld told ESPN.com that he was prohibited from commenting on the situation, citing league rules that prevent teams from commenting on free agency until the moritorium passes.

For the Cavs, Hughes gives them a great scorer and defender to put at the two alongside LeBron James. He isn't a great shooter (something the Cavs desperately need), but he's a fantastic ball handler and rebounder making him -- like LeBron -- a very versatile piece in the puzzle.

With Hughes on board, the Cavs will now focus their atttention on bringing back free agent Zydrunas Ilgauskas. They're also in hot pursuit of Lithuanian point guard Sarunas Jasikevicius, widely regarded as the best international player not playing in the NBA.


The news comes as major blow to the Wizards, who were confident they could re-sign Hughes. The Wizards eventually offered up to six years, $70 million.

The Wizards now have to start over from scratch. The team now has a big hole at the two to fill and must also deal with the likely departure of Kwame Brown. The Wizards can get about $9 million below the cap if they don't re-sign Brown. However, the market for two guards is getting thin.

The last major two guard on the market is Joe Johnson. However, Johnson is a restricted free agent and most teams believe that the Suns will match any offer. There's also talk from multiple league sources that Johnson is in serious negotiations with the Atlanta Hawks about signing a max offer sheet.

That leaves Bobby Simmons, Cuttino Mobley and Latrell Sprewell as the top two guards left on the board. The Wizards could also, at this point, try to work out a sign-and-trade with Brown that brings them back a top-flight shooting guard.


Anyone post this yet???

[Nuggets4]

I dont understand tis at all! atlanta wants joe johnson. how many SF type players are they going to have? yah ok joe johnson can be a backup pg or play sg I guess. but he's 6'8, they also have al arrington josh childress and marvin williams! do they want to start a team based solely on vertical?

Atlanta needs talent. Joe Johnson is better than everyone on that list (although I think Williams will eventually be better). You can trade the other ones for a 1 and a 5. Hell, if I remember correctly, they still have enough money to get a PG like Earl Watson.

* Watson
* Johnson
* Childress
* Williams
* Center via trade

Not a bad lineup honestly.

[GSRelyea]

Atlanta needs talent. Joe Johnson is better than everyone on that list (although I think Williams will eventually be better). You can trade the other ones for a 1 and a 5. Hell, if I remember correctly, they still have enough money to get a PG like Earl Watson.

* Watson
* Johnson
* Childress
* Williams
* Center via trade

Not a bad lineup honestly.
And you would have Josh Smith sitting there as well....

[yavoon]

Atlanta needs talent. Joe Johnson is better than everyone on that list (although I think Williams will eventually be better). You can trade the other ones for a 1 and a 5. Hell, if I remember correctly, they still have enough money to get a PG like Earl Watson.

* Watson
* Johnson
* Childress
* Williams
* Center via trade

Not a bad lineup honestly.

who saise u can automatically get good value on a trade? u think ur gna trade a flooded position(2,3) for a rare position(5). u'd seriously need to trade a damn good swing player to get even a moderate center.

thinking about playing marvin williams at the 4? harrington is the only player even remotely capable of playing the 4.

[FADERPROOF]

Too much Mavs talk in here.

This might cheer DF up. Not sure how reliable this link is (they're usually pretty good on draft stuff, not sure about free agency), but Hughes is a damn good signing.

http://www.nbadraft.net/prevenas044.asp

That woul be just great, Hughes is our 3rd option but still a damn good player.

I am surprised at the lack of attention that he has gotten so far, figured that teams without the big bucks would go after him instead of Allen or Redd, but it's nice to at least land somebody.

[Nuggets4]

who saise u can automatically get good value on a trade? u think ur gna trade a flooded position(2,3) for a rare position(5). u'd seriously need to trade a damn good swing player to get even a moderate center.

thinking about playing marvin williams at the 4? harrington is the only player even remotely capable of playing the 4.

No one said you were gonna get fair value. That said, when players like Andrew Bogut are being viewed as a potential all-star center, you don't need a good center to compete.

[yavoon]

No one said you were gonna get fair value. That said, when players like Andrew Bogut are being viewed as a potential all-star center, you don't need a good center to compete.

no but even avg centers are hard to get, and as far as potential bogut has reasonably good potential. size, coordination, touch, intelligence.

[RhymesayersDU]

Saw this on ESPN News at the restaurant I was eating at, the Bucks signed Bobby Simmons for like 40 mil... don't remember how many years.

[yavoon]

oh well. hey when did harrington become chop liver(atlanta player from indiana) I like him, but obviously atlanta desperately wants him outta the lineup. maybe trade him? he doesn't have range on his shot but he is big and athletic and has some postup moves. like a small 4 that can guard a 3 really. kinda cool.

[RhymesayersDU]

I remember seeing Harrington play for Indiana a couple times on TV. Seemed like a pretty decent/good player. He should be getting minutes somewhere.

[epicSocialism4tw]

who saise u can automatically get good value on a trade? u think ur gna trade a flooded position(2,3) for a rare position(5). u'd seriously need to trade a damn good swing player to get even a moderate center.

thinking about playing marvin williams at the 4? harrington is the only player even remotely capable of playing the 4.

The need for a proven commodity like Joe Johnson is obvious. Why wait 3 years for your talent to come around when you can grab a guy that is very young and has a very high ceiling?

Atlanta has all of those dollars and they need to acquire whatever talent that they can with the money so that they have assets to improve outside of their lottery picks.

[epicSocialism4tw]

oh well. hey when did harrington become chop liver(atlanta player from indiana) I like him, but obviously atlanta desperately wants him outta the lineup. maybe trade him? he doesn't have range on his shot but he is big and athletic and has some postup moves. like a small 4 that can guard a 3 really. kinda cool.

Harrington became chopped liver when he went to Atlanta. What was the perception of Terry in Atlanta? He was an ineffective combo guard with little value outside of being a #1 scorer for a bad team, and Dallas was able to get him for the horrid Antione Walker and his expiring contract.

If your team sucks: you suck. That seems to be the popular idea.

[GSRelyea]

Saw this on ESPN News at the restaurant I was eating at, the Bucks signed Bobby Simmons for like 40 mil... don't remember how many years.

The bucks are going to have a much improved team if TJ Ford can play.
TJ
Redd
Simmons
ENTER PF-J Smith
Bogut

Mason off the bench...

[footstepsfrom#27]

The problem with acquiring Mobley, Finley, etc...is that it means DJ continues to sit. I think this guy is the real answer, but he's a year of starting minutes away from being a true NBA 2 guard who can give you 20 pts a night. Will Karl give him 30 min a night? I doubt it. Should he? I think so. 6'9" shooting guards who can stroke the 3 don't grow on trees. There's a reason he was the 6th pick in the draft. Put him and Melo on the wings and all the sudden Nene might be a different inside player as well. I'd hate to see them just keep adding decent 2 guards to sap minutes that should go to this kid. I don't see the need for another shooter anyway since we have Vo coming back. DJ is the only guy at the 2 spot capable of being both a great defender and a legitimate scoring threat. He should get the start and the rookie Hodge get the backup minutes at the 2 and a few at the 1 spot. Keep Vo as an instant offense threat and dump Buckner whose to one dimensional. That gives you the opportunity to sometimes use a backcourt with a 6'7" pg and a 6'9" sg, which creates some real matchup problems.

[yavoon]

The need for a proven commodity like Joe Johnson is obvious. Why wait 3 years for your talent to come around when you can grab a guy that is very young and has a very high ceiling?

Atlanta has all of those dollars and they need to acquire whatever talent that they can with the money so that they have assets to improve outside of their lottery picks.

if atlanta wants to import a #3(at best) scorer who has a low points/shot(lower than iversons) on a team that gets an immense amount of easy shots. and is of course verstatile, then sure.

I'm not sure exactly what joe johnson has proven though.

[epicSocialism4tw]

JJ averaged 17/5/3 as a 4th option on the Suns. Those are pretty good stats for a 23 year old who is getting far less than the lion's share of the shots. JJ is IMO the best FA available on the market. He is the only swing player who has a complete game, and he does his thing well at a very young age. This guy is a blue-chip player right now with unlimited upside.

[epicSocialism4tw]

The bucks are going to have a much improved team if TJ Ford can play.
TJ
Redd
Simmons
ENTER PF-J Smith
Bogut

Mason off the bench...


Milwuakee just got really interesting. They are the most interesting team in the east and probably will come out the big winners this offseason. They added a young franchise center, a young vet scorer (Redd), and a young and versatile swing player (Simmons). All they have to do now is get their point back out there (Ford) and get Joe Smith get interested and they have an excellent team.

[yavoon]

JJ averaged 17/5/3 as a 4th option on the Suns. Those are pretty good stats for a 23 year old who is getting far less than the lion's share of the shots. JJ is IMO the best FA available on the market. He is the only swing player who has a complete game, and he does his thing well at a very young age. This guy is a blue-chip player right now with unlimited upside.

I dont necessarily see it as relevant phoenix was an offensive machine, they created more posessions w/ their soft defense and constantly pushing offense than anyone else. not to mention that he is as u say somewhere around the 4th! option. if u make him the #1 option and remove his easy shots, what then? I think its a very pertinent question. everything right now is in joe johnson's favor to look good. and the fact that he is infact versatile has only fueled the fire of his potential.

[epicSocialism4tw]

I dont necessarily see it as relevant phoenix was an offensive machine, they created more posessions w/ their soft defense and constantly pushing offense than anyone else. not to mention that he is as u say somewhere around the 4th! option. if u make him the #1 option and remove his easy shots, what then? I think its a very pertinent question. everything right now is in joe johnson's favor to look good. and the fact that he is infact versatile has only fueled the fire of his potential.

Johnson is easily the most complete and polished swing player available, and thus the top player on the market next to Ray Allen..

I have been saying all summer to the 'Phoenix will match anything' crowd that it will be extremely difficult for them to max Johnson out due to their commitments to their top 3 players. Will they be willing to rid themselves of Marion to keep him on board? Those 3 players will push Phoenix close to the max. Stoudemire's contract will be extremely heavy next season. Think Garnett type money. It doesn't make any sense for them to tie themselves up with those contracts when they only have a couple of good years left with Nash. They will need a little more flexibility down the road and 4 max players gives you none of that.

[yavoon]

Johnson is easily the most complete and polished swing player available, and thus the top player on the market next to Ray Allen..

I have been saying all summer to the 'Phoenix will match anything' crowd that it will be extremely difficult for them to max Johnson out due to their commitments to their top 3 players. Will they be willing to rid themselves of Marion to keep him on board? Those 3 players will push Phoenix close to the max. Stoudemire's contract will be extremely heavy next season. Think Garnett type money. It doesn't make any sense for them to tie themselves up with those contracts when they only have a couple of good years left with Nash. They will need a little more flexibility down the road and 4 max players gives you none of that.

I guess it just goes back to how rich phoenix's owner is. its not hard to project the cap, they have who they have now+amare at max. so if they match they more or less know exactly what they are getting into. its a relatively uncomplex situation w/ a relatively hard decision to be made.

but this aint football, so if u wanna spend the cash u can keep the players!

[Clockwork Orange]

A tidbit for the Nuggets faithful around here (not free agency related but some good news). I was listening to 950 The Fan on the way home from work and Mike & Sandy were talking about the Nuggets and Mike started talking about Carmelo Anthony. He said that he saw Carmelo in the building they broadcast from last week (doing something with one of The Fan's sister stations) and that physically he looks fantastic, worlds better than he did a year ago. It appears that the kid is making good on his promise to stay in Denver and work hard during the offseason.

Mike also said that he has a "source" (take it for what it's worth, but he does work for the teams flagship station) that tells him that:

A. Carmelo absolutely loves Denver and has no desire to go anywhere else.
B. Despite what some would have you believe, Carmelo & George Karl get along great.

Like I said, it's nothing earth shattering, but it's something.

[epicSocialism4tw]

I guess it just goes back to how rich phoenix's owner is. its not hard to project the cap, they have who they have now+amare at max. so if they match they more or less know exactly what they are getting into. its a relatively uncomplex situation w/ a relatively hard decision to be made.

but this aint football, so if u wanna spend the cash u can keep the players!

you can keep the players, but that is not the issue. The issue is: what do you do when you can't trade Nash's albatross contract 2 seasons from now and your team suffers as Marion ages and Nash's back slows him down? This is the issue that Cuban wrestled with and decided against because of Nash's long injury history. Dallas only had 2 other max players and even Cuban wouldn't freeze up his roster for that long with an old guard's contract.

Phoenix's top 5 looks like this after '06 (if they resign Johnson):
Marion around 13.3 mil
Nash approx.11.3 mil
Amare approx. 20 mil (Garnett comparison used to project his market value)
JJ approx. 10 mil (20 mil signing bonus received in '05)
Kurt T approx. 7.725 mil

That's a whopping 62.325 million for just the starting 5. The rest of the squad will be made up of rookie contracts, extensions, vet minimums, and MLE splits. They will no doubt have the highest payroll in the NBA and will not have a significant post presence to show for it. At least the '03 Mavs competed with the Spurs in the WCF.

What happens when Barbosa wants to re-up? Will Colangelo cut Nash by the 4th year of his contract? The Suns are facing a really difficult decision. You could tell that they were shaking in their boots when they went out of their way to insure the press that they would match any offer given to JJ. What is rediculous is that JJ is probably the most attractive FA out there and scouts had to know that. I'm surprised that the Clippers havent thrown money at him also (wait...no I'm not...Sterling is a cheap fellow).

The Suns could be signing their own death warrant with this deal. I think that they would have been better served by bringing in a player with less value or using JJ in a sign-and-trade to get a quality 6th man and a servicable starting combo guard.

[Nuggets4]

B. Despite what some would have you believe, Carmelo & George Karl get along great.

This is something I've always heard. I never understood where the "Melo and George hate each other" rumors came from. Good stuff CO.

[Nuggets4]

Ilgauskus re-signs with Cavs (http://www.cleveland.com/newslogs/plaindealer/index.ssf?/mtlogs/cleve_plaindealer/archives/2005_07.html#068262)

Less money than I thought he'd get.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Ilgauskus re-signs with Cavs (http://www.cleveland.com/newslogs/plaindealer/index.ssf?/mtlogs/cleve_plaindealer/archives/2005_07.html#068262)

Less money than I thought he'd get.


That is still a huge contract for a 30 year old center with an injury history.

[Clockwork Orange]

This is something I've always heard. I never understood where the "Melo and George hate each other" rumors came from. Good stuff CO.

ESPN has been trying to brand Carmelo a coach killer for some time now. I remember hearing numerous references to friction between Bzdelik & Anthony (none of which was ever actually true) and the day that George Karl was hired, ESPN ran a poll on their website asking how things would go for him in Denver. One of the options was that he and Carmelo would clash and that would lead to his firing.::)

[epicSocialism4tw]

ESPN has been trying to brand Carmelo a coach killer for some time now. I remember hearing numerous references to friction between Bzdelik & Anthony (none of which was ever actually true) and the day that George Karl was hired, ESPN ran a poll on their website asking how things would go for him in Denver. One of the options was that he and Carmelo would clash and that would lead to his firing.::)

Those newsmongers at ESPN want to create controversy to keep you visiting their website. The only thing you can really trust coming out of any sportsnews media outlets are the wire reports that report on events that have already happened. Those reports are 'more correct' than that editorial stuff, but are sometimes poorly done as well. I think that that industry is a good 'ol boy type of thing with a bunch of lazy sports fans.

[yavoon]

you can keep the players, but that is not the issue. The issue is: what do you do when you can't trade Nash's albatross contract 2 seasons from now and your team suffers as Marion ages and Nash's back slows him down? This is the issue that Cuban wrestled with and decided against because of Nash's long injury history. Dallas only had 2 other max players and even Cuban wouldn't freeze up his roster for that long with an old guard's contract.

Phoenix's top 5 looks like this after '06 (if they resign Johnson):
Marion around 13.3 mil
Nash approx.11.3 mil
Amare approx. 20 mil (Garnett comparison used to project his market value)
JJ approx. 10 mil (20 mil signing bonus received in '05)
Kurt T approx. 7.725 mil

That's a whopping 62.325 million for just the starting 5. The rest of the squad will be made up of rookie contracts, extensions, vet minimums, and MLE splits. They will no doubt have the highest payroll in the NBA and will not have a significant post presence to show for it. At least the '03 Mavs competed with the Spurs in the WCF.

What happens when Barbosa wants to re-up? Will Colangelo cut Nash by the 4th year of his contract? The Suns are facing a really difficult decision. You could tell that they were shaking in their boots when they went out of their way to insure the press that they would match any offer given to JJ. What is rediculous is that JJ is probably the most attractive FA out there and scouts had to know that. I'm surprised that the Clippers havent thrown money at him also (wait...no I'm not...Sterling is a cheap fellow).

The Suns could be signing their own death warrant with this deal. I think that they would have been better served by bringing in a player with less value or using JJ in a sign-and-trade to get a quality 6th man and a servicable starting combo guard.

amare wont get 20 next year. I dont know all the subtleties but a player right off their rookie contract can't just shootup to 20. kobe is still at like 14. u have to escalate there slowly. when they say max, max is different for different ppl. max for shaq is enormous because he's been in the league a while.

[yavoon]

ESPN has been trying to brand Carmelo a coach killer for some time now. I remember hearing numerous references to friction between Bzdelik & Anthony (none of which was ever actually true) and the day that George Karl was hired, ESPN ran a poll on their website asking how things would go for him in Denver. One of the options was that he and Carmelo would clash and that would lead to his firing.::)

rumor vs rumor?

[Clockwork Orange]

amare wont get 20 next year. I dont know all the subtleties but a player right off their rookie contract can't just shootup to 20. kobe is still at like 14. u have to escalate there slowly. when they say max, max is different for different ppl. max for shaq is enormous because he's been in the league a while.

Shaq's contract was from the years before the lockout when salaries were going insane. That was when the likes of Juwon Howard, Eddie Jones and Brian Grant were able to get deals ranging from $15-$20 million per season.

[RhymesayersDU]

Melo got a raw deal in that Bzdelik firing, IMO. I wanted his ass let go before the season started, and there was a reason for it. 2 seasons ago, when the Nuggets first made the playoffs, they played out of their minds that season. It wasn't great coaching by Bzdelik by any means.

Then we get to this season, and things go south. Were the players probably somewhat to blame? Perhaps. In fact, yes, they probably were. But Bzdelik is not a good NBA coach, flat out. Melo didn't run him out of the organization, or any other BS like that. When a real coach came in, notice how the W's piled up? Notice how points went up? Karl installed a system that works for these guys, period.

As far as Melo goes, some of the criticism of him thus far has been warranted. I was listening to somebody in May, one of the local Denver guys I think, complaining that Melo loved the club scene more than the basketball scene. At the time, it made me cringe because I was afraid he's right.

But I don't think he was. The fact is, Melo is what, 20? 21? He's growing up, I mean, let's be honest, you throw a bunch of money at any young kid, and things like that will happen. It didn't happen to LeBron, but LeBron's a phenom. It didn't happen to Wade, but I think he's lucky to have a real mentor in Shaq. Melo doesn't have that luxury, and he's been asked to take the Nuggets to the next level.

I'm not trying to spin things off of Melo. He was in fact out of shape coming into this season. And I think he's had problems adjusting to owning this city, and his fame, etc. But he's growing up, and he's going to be good. I just hope that he stays in Denver.

[Clockwork Orange]

rumor vs rumor?

Fine. Show me some evidence, a quote, a link, anything that shows that Carmelo has had any friction with Bzdelik or Karl.

No "journalist" was ever able to provide anything tangible, so I don't expect that you will either.

[yavoon]

Shaq's contract was from the years before the lockout when salaries were going insane. That was when the likes of Juwon Howard, Eddie Jones and Brian Grant were able to get deals ranging from $15-$20 million per season.

it still holds, shaq is looking for like 32 mill/season. he can only realize that because of his tenure in the league.

[yavoon]

Fine. Show me some evidence, a quote, a link, anything that shows that Carmelo has had any friction with Bzdelik or Karl.

No "journalist" was ever able to provide anything tangible, so I don't expect that you will either.

journalists have to protect their sources. not saying its true just thought it was funny u were so ready to prop one rumor up over another one.

[Clockwork Orange]

Melo got a raw deal in that Bzdelik firing, IMO. I wanted his ass let go before the season started, and there was a reason for it. 2 seasons ago, when the Nuggets first made the playoffs, they played out of their minds that season. It wasn't great coaching by Bzdelik by any means.

Then we get to this season, and things go south. Were the players probably somewhat to blame? Perhaps. In fact, yes, they probably were. But Bzdelik is not a good NBA coach, flat out. Melo didn't run him out of the organization, or any other BS like that. When a real coach came in, notice how the W's piled up? Notice how points went up? Karl installed a system that works for these guys, period.

As far as Melo goes, some of the criticism of him thus far has been warranted. I was listening to somebody in May, one of the local Denver guys I think, complaining that Melo loved the club scene more than the basketball scene. At the time, it made me cringe because I was afraid he's right.

But I don't think he was. The fact is, Melo is what, 20? 21? He's growing up, I mean, let's be honest, you throw a bunch of money at any young kid, and things like that will happen. It didn't happen to LeBron, but LeBron's a phenom. It didn't happen to Wade, but I think he's lucky to have a real mentor in Shaq. Melo doesn't have that luxury, and he's been asked to take the Nuggets to the next level.

I'm not trying to spin things off of Melo. He was in fact out of shape coming into this season. And I think he's had problems adjusting to owning this city, and his fame, etc. But he's growing up, and he's going to be good. I just hope that he stays in Denver.

The Bzdelik situation was handled poorly. Not by Carmelo (who has no say in who his coach is and for how long), but by Kiki Vandeweghe. Kiki made Bzdelik a lame duck coach by refusing to extend his contract and refusing to even comment on the possibility of an extension.

The team struggled, Carmelo got criticized, some fair, some undeserved. But nowhere have I ever seen Carmelo say an ill word about Jeff Bzdelik or any coach he's played for.

But hell, some people still cling to the rumor that Carmelo and Andre Miller don't like each other.::)

Then Karl gets here and challenges Carmelo to be better. Praising him when he does well, benching him when he struggles. Once again, not an ill word has been spoken about either from the other.

[Clockwork Orange]

journalists have to protect their sources. not saying its true just thought it was funny u were so ready to prop one rumor up over another one.

It's not a rumor, I've seen many interviews in which Carmelo had nothing but praise for his coaches. I've seen many interviews in which Bzdelik & Karl have nothing but praise for Carmelo.

I'll take the actual words of the parties involved over some ESPN hack with no credible evidence. Thanks.

[yavoon]

It's not a rumor, I've seen many interviews in which Carmelo had nothing but praise for his coaches. I've seen many interviews in which Bzdelik & Karl have nothing but praise for Carmelo.

I'll take the actual words of the parties involved over some ESPN hack with no credible evidence. Thanks.

well its atleast still civil. but the media is not the first place ppl go anyway.

[epicSocialism4tw]

amare wont get 20 next year. I dont know all the subtleties but a player right off their rookie contract can't just shootup to 20. kobe is still at like 14. u have to escalate there slowly. when they say max, max is different for different ppl. max for shaq is enormous because he's been in the league a while.

Max has nothing to do with tenure. Dirk got the max right off of his rookie contract. I'm sure that LeBron James will break the bank as well and I see little difference in his and Stoudemires worth at this point.

Kobe Bryant makes 20 million annually, not 14.

The reason Amare Stoudemire will get an 'impact player' max is because he has all of the tools right now at age 20(21?). You are talking about a guy that roared through the playoffs against top level talent like Duncan and Nowitzki. Someone will offer him the money if Phoenix doesnt. Mark my words and remember this day because I want you to specifically remember how much you undervalued Stoudemire when he is extended a monster contract ala Garnett. I hate to have to put the pimp-slap powder on, but who told you about Simmons worth? Gave you the 411 on Redd? Told you what is actually up with Joe Johnson? I'm batting darn near 1.000 right now with some home runs...you are still swinging at knuckleballs.

[DBroncos4life]

Not sure if it was brought up but Cavs signed Ilgauskas back Denfan.

[yavoon]

Max has nothing to do with tenure. Dirk got the max right off of his rookie contract. I'm sure that LeBron James will break the bank as well and I see little difference in his and Stoudemires worth at this point.

Kobe Bryant makes 20 million annually, not 14.

The reason Amare Stoudemire will get an 'impact player' max is because he has all of the tools right now at age 20(21?). You are talking about a guy that roared through the playoffs against top level talent like Duncan and Nowitzki. Someone will offer him the money if Phoenix doesnt. Mark my words and remember this day because I want you to specifically remember how much you undervalued Stoudemire when he is extended a monster contract ala Garnett. I hate to have to put the pimp-slap powder on, but who told you about Simmons worth? Gave you the 411 on Redd? Told you what is actually up with Joe Johnson? I'm batting darn near 1.000 right now with some home runs...you are still swinging at knuckleballs.

anyone can get max, but max is not the same for every player. u get more money the longer u'v ebeen in the league. and kobe made 15.9 million. I'm not sure if ur not understanding this or not. I personally didn't think it was complicated.

http://www.hoopshype.com/salaries.htm

as for ur pimp slapping, besides the fact u dont even know the basic setup of nba salaries, failed to grasp what i was saying, seem to think I believe amare wont get max when i flat out said he would, and just in general seem to be ranting on something completely irrelevant. I think u need to actually learn what max is so u dont have go walking around w/ pimp powder on ur hands.....

oh and not to throw u for a complete loop but lebron right now is making the max(or perhaps for ur understanding, the most money he is capable of earning in compliance w/ the collective bargaining agreement).

[epicSocialism4tw]

anyone can get max, but max is not the same for every player. u get more money the longer u'v ebeen in the league. and kobe made 15.9 million. I'm not sure if ur not understanding this or not. I personally didn't think it was complicated.

http://www.hoopshype.com/salaries.htm

as for ur pimp slapping, besides the fact u dont even know the basic setup of nba salaries, failed to grasp what i was saying, seem to think I believe amare wont get max when i flat out said he would, and just in general seem to be ranting on something completely irrelevant. I think u need to actually learn what max is so u dont have go walking around w/ pimp powder on ur hands.....

oh and not to throw u for a complete loop but lebron right now is making the max(or perhaps for ur understanding, the most money he is capable of earning in compliance w/ the collective bargaining agreement).

The pimp powder is off of my hands and settled nicely about your orbital. Kobe makes on average around 20 million. There are escalator clauses that bump the annual number up a certain percent. There are also signing bonuses that are factored in. Bryant has an over 136 million dollar contract that spreads over 7 seasons.

[yavoon]

The pimp powder is off of my hands and settled nicely about your orbital. Kobe makes on average around 20 million. There are escalator clauses that bump the annual number up a certain percent. There are also signing bonuses that are factored in. Bryant has an over 136 million dollar contract that spreads over 7 seasons.

I know that, but thats not the issue, the issue is his year to year salary. and all contracts that are maxed go up year by year. its set in the agreement(cba) a certain % of max increased allowed/year. seriously there's a lot u dont need to know about the cba, but basic stuff like why max is different for different players and the % escalators put into most contracts is pretty basic. especially if ur going to walk around w/ pimp powder.

so why don't u just do urself a favor and admit ur being a dumbass and we can move on.

[FADERPROOF]

Not sure if it was brought up but Cavs signed Ilgauskas back Denfan.

I'm glad, we would've been ****ed without him this year.

[FADERPROOF]

ESPN has been trying to brand Carmelo a coach killer for some time now. I remember hearing numerous references to friction between Bzdelik & Anthony (none of which was ever actually true) and the day that George Karl was hired, ESPN ran a poll on their website asking how things would go for him in Denver. One of the options was that he and Carmelo would clash and that would lead to his firing.::)

Wasn't there also something about him and Larry Brown at the Olympics last year?

[Nuggets4]

Don't forget Larry Brown and Amare. Larry Brown and LeBron. Lary Brown and......

[epicSocialism4tw]

Don't forget Larry Brown and Amare. Larry Brown and LeBron. Lary Brown and......

Larry Brown and Michael Jordan...Larry Brown and Jerry West...Larry Brown and Phyllis Diller...

[RhymesayersDU]

Wasn't there also something about him and Larry Brown at the Olympics last year?
DF, you know I really like LeBron, but wasn't there issues, which were brought to light after the Olympics, that LeBron wasn't exactly an angel while he was there either?

[FADERPROOF]

DF, you know I really like LeBron, but wasn't there issues, which were brought to light after the Olympics, that LeBron wasn't exactly an angel while he was there either?

I was actually just throwing out the Larry Brown and Melo talk because of the pure speculation along with the Melo and Karl talk.

But if you msut go there, I remember that both King James and Carmelo reportedly were uspet about the lack of playing time they were receiving, or at least that was LeBron's thing.

[Clockwork Orange]

I was actually just throwing out the Larry Brown and Melo talk because of the pure speculation along with the Melo and Karl talk.

But if you msut go there, I remember that both King James and Carmelo reportedly were uspet about the lack of playing time they were receiving, or at least that was LeBron's thing.

That was Carmelo's problem too, same with Amare Stoudamire. While we're talking, I have a feeling that Darko Milicic isn't a big Larry Brown fan right about now either.

Darko is either Skita v2.0 or Larry Brown just doesn't care for him. If you're 7 feet tall and can play, I don't care how young you are, you'll get a few minutes per game.

[FADERPROOF]

That was Carmelo's problem too, same with Amare Stoudamire. While we're talking, I have a feeling that Darko Milicic isn't a big Larry Brown fan right about now either.

Darko is either Skita v2.0 or Larry Brown just doesn't care for him. If you're 7 feet tall and can play, I don't care how young you are, you'll get a few minutes per game.

I can imagine, especially when 75% of basketball fans are labeling him a bust already.

[yavoon]

yah larry brown has definitely not been doing darko any favors. but look at how tight larry's lineups were last year. the starting 5 played more minutes together than anyone else. they had a short bench, even in regular season.

also this is darko's first! summer league, and we all know he doesn't get good minutes in the regular season so in many ways poor darko has been shutout of playing.

[RhymesayersDU]

I was actually just throwing out the Larry Brown and Melo talk because of the pure speculation along with the Melo and Karl talk.

But if you msut go there, I remember that both King James and Carmelo reportedly were uspet about the lack of playing time they were receiving, or at least that was LeBron's thing.
It's not that I'm trying to talk smack or anything, but if we bring up coach killing and you point to the Olympics, we must talk about all of the guys there, that's all. Like I said, I'm a pro-LeBron guy, hell, I'd sport that Cavs throwback of his if I didn't have like 3 or 4 jerseys ahead of it. But yeah, we can't just use the Olympics to point fingers at Melo.

[RhymesayersDU]

yavoon is right, the Piston rotation was pretty tight. And while Darko may not have been given fair minutes to show his stuff, I'm inclined to side with the thought that if he had any game at all, he'd be getting at least a few more minutes than he gets now as the "human victory cigar."

[Nuggets4]

Mobley signed a ridiculous contract with the Clip joint. 5 years, $42 million. Kings wanted Nene, we said no.

[GSRelyea]

Mobley signed a ridiculous contract with the Clip joint. 5 years, $42 million. Kings wanted Nene, we said no.

That's way too much money for Mobley, I am glad we didn't trade Nene for him. He is not an 8 mil a year player.

[Master___Pain]

Mobley signed a ridiculous contract with the Clip joint. 5 years, $42 million. Kings wanted Nene, we said no.

Just resign Dermarr, maybe take a run a the Clipper PG (name escapes me)

As I said before, if we bring back basically the same team, I will be fine. That roster can easily win 50 games and challenge for the division.

[Nuggets4]

Jaric.

It's been pointed out to me that taking the option on Vo does not effect our cap space. Apparently, if we let Vo go, we have enough cap space to be ~the MLE. If we re-sign Vo, we're out of cap space, but we get the MLE. If this is true, let's keep him around. He's a $3 mil a year expiring contract that might be good for something in February.

Just sucks that we have to deal with his pudgy, no playing defense ass until then.

[FADERPROOF]

It's not that I'm trying to talk smack or anything, but if we bring up coach killing and you point to the Olympics, we must talk about all of the guys there, that's all. Like I said, I'm a pro-LeBron guy, hell, I'd sport that Cavs throwback of his if I didn't have like 3 or 4 jerseys ahead of it. But yeah, we can't just use the Olympics to point fingers at Melo.


I wasn't doing any finger pointing, I was just throwing something else out there that went along with how the media speculates that Melo and Karl don't get along.

Just media speculation stuff, wasn't saying that he did it, and I certainly didn't bring LeBron into it.