The Truth about Gunther [Archive] - The Orange Mane

Mediator12

06-13-2005, 12:35 PM

2003 KC defensive stats Robinson
Pl Y/G Y/P FD/G 3M Att 3rd% 4th % TOP TF L TO's Sacks
1054 356.7 5.4 20.1 78 213 36.6 43.5 30:37 21 12 37 36

2004 KC defensive Stats Cunningham

Pl Y/G Y/P FD/G 3M Att 3rd% 4th % TOP TF L TO's Sacks
960 377.3 6.3 20.4 71 185 38.4 31.2 27:46 23 8 20 41

For all of the crap Bob has been spouting recently, here are the hard facts Bob. Your defense was blatantly worse under Gunther than under Robinson surrendering almost a whole yard per play more. There is no question that it was the players that sucked now is there. The chiefs actually had better DL play last year under Cunningham with a promising rookie in Jared Allen. This amounted to the only statistical improvement Gunther achieved a whopping 5 more sacks. Hilarious!

I am willing to bet you will still cry about how the Chiefs will be better with their defensive acquisitions, but any way you slice it they are not going to be that much better. The 32cd best defense in yards per play can only stay the same or get better I guess.

Denver has some holes to fill and they have addressed them. Will it work? No one knows until later when the season starts. KC had chasms to fill and only a small sprinkling of dirt to place in each hole. Surtain is quality, but that still leaves you two credible CB's short in this Pass happy NFL where the nickel is being played about 60% of the snaps. Sammy Knight is a good safety but not that much of an upgrade over your current crop. Kendrell Bell is a good to great 3-4 LB. He has not proven he can play the Mike or Sam in a 4-3 yet though and that transition is harder than you think. Derrick Johnson, well, He is the next Steve Emtman or Brian Bosworth to me. A LB who can not engage blockers in college with success is not going anywhere quick in the NFL. Remeber who his DC was at Texas last year? That's right Greg Robinson. He may develop into a great player someday, but if he can not shed blockers in this league he is in trouble in the AFC.

Really, I was on record that Gunther would actually make your defense better last year. I thought he had the ability to make those guys a little better. In reality, he failed miserably to accomplish any of his goals last year. The meager yards per run decrease of 0.6 was still 31st in the league. They were worse against the pass across the board except sacks. So, Bob to put any faith in Gunther at all would be a major :homer:

crazyhorse

06-13-2005, 12:47 PM

Master___Pain

06-13-2005, 01:00 PM

We were 9th in total defense until the injuries started.

Next

One week does not a season make.

Next.

Mediator12

06-13-2005, 01:01 PM

We were 9th in total defense until the injuries started.

Next

We were first in Defense until the injuries started!

next.

Mediator12

06-13-2005, 01:04 PM

Seriously, crazyhorse you have way better than that. What happens when the injuries come this year? You gonna cry injuries and spout the Chief Mantra of wait till next year we WILL improve?

Tredici

06-13-2005, 01:27 PM

Injuries count everywhere in the NFL except Denver, Mediator. Please get it right. Losing an All Pro like Trevor Pryce shouldn't be a consideration. Because if you Coach correctly you have predicted all that and you have depth. Guys to step in at a moment's notice and make the exact same contribution.

The miracle is Shanahan/Coyer and Company come close to pulling it off.

Gunther gets a pass.

Bob's your Information Minister

06-13-2005, 01:32 PM

This amounted to the only statistical improvement

I stopped reading right here. When I saw you had a false statement in your post the rest immediately became garbage.

Clockwork Orange

06-13-2005, 01:33 PM

Mediator12

06-13-2005, 01:40 PM

I stopped reading right here. When I saw you had a false statement in your post the rest immediately became garbage.

Really Bob, read the official stats pal. Name another area where Gunther improved. Go ahead. You can not.

In fact he was worse in total defense having almost 100 plays less than Robinson the year before.

In fact every single Chief fan on this Board besides Naptown is unable to come up with any descrepancies whatsoever. Take it back to the planet HOMER.

Tom A Hawk

06-13-2005, 01:41 PM

Just the fact that you were concerned enough to look that up is refreshing to me..........keep doubting. As you indicated, only time will tell.

Master___Pain

06-13-2005, 01:42 PM

Really Bob, read the official stats pal. Name another area where Gunther improved. Go ahead. You can not.

In fact he was worse in total defense having almost 100 plays less than Robinson the year before.

Here's a stat that's worth while...........wins how many more wins did gunther help the team get?

Mediator12

06-13-2005, 01:43 PM

Just the fact that you were concerned enough to look that up is refreshing to me..........keep doubting. As you indicated, only time will tell.

Actually, Tom I thought Gunther would make a difference! The fact that no Chiefs fan has been able to find ANY inconsistencies except one line internet dodges proves the point. GO home!

Bob's your Information Minister

06-13-2005, 02:29 PM

Really Bob, read the official stats pal. Name another area where Gunther improved. Go ahead. You can not.

Wow...I didn't think you were this stupid. Keep digging the hole.

Master___Pain

06-13-2005, 02:33 PM

Wow...I didn't think you were this stupid. Keep digging the hole.

He improved the win count, right?

Spider

06-13-2005, 02:34 PM

Spider

06-13-2005, 02:35 PM

Wow...I didn't think you were this stupid. Keep digging the hole.
well can you Bob ?

elsid13

06-13-2005, 02:37 PM

Wow...I didn't think you were this stupid. Keep digging the hole.

Bob,

Are going to present any statically information, facts or reasonably explanations? OR just deny everything and repeat the mantra that "Gunter is GOD"

Since you are having problems developing a clear argument let me help you. I would attack the stuff put forward by Mediator12 by stating "the team needed to learn the new scheme, so it took awhile for the players to adjust, if you look at the stats later in the seasons there is clear improvement. It should not have taken so long, but the players really are stupid in KC, due to the water……something they share with the fans"

crazyhorse

06-13-2005, 02:38 PM

One week does not a season make.

Next.

Uh, that was week seven that they were still rated #9.

Spider

06-13-2005, 02:39 PM

Bob,

Are going to present any statically information, facts or reasonably explanations? OR just deny everything and repeat the mantra that "Gunter is GOD"

Since you are having problems developing a clear argument let me help you. I would attack the stuff put forward by Mediator12 by stating "the team needed to learn the new scheme, so it took awhile for the players to adjust, if you look at the stats later in the seasons there is clear improvement. It should not have taken so long, but the players really are stupid in KC, due to the water……something they share with the fans"
LOL .........You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to elsid13 again.

Master___Pain

06-13-2005, 02:42 PM

Uh, that was week seven that they were still rated #9.

LOL WOW, way to make your point. Is the season 7 weeks long now? Is the superbowl played in April? Jesus, you'd think the chief fans would realize that the season is 16 weeks and that the Super Bowl is played in late January/early February by now.

FADERPROOF

06-13-2005, 02:46 PM

Wow...I didn't think you were this stupid. Keep digging the hole.

Bob, if you keep being an idiot, I will ban you.

Don't make stupid pointless posts from now on, that's your warning.

You suck as a poster here, plain and simple, and stupid things like this just irritate the hell out of me.

Start shaping up or find somewhere else to go, no one here gives a **** regardless.

crazyhorse

06-13-2005, 02:47 PM

It's still funny how Greg Robinson was expected to make diamonds out of dog**** with the players the Chefs handed him and was then blamed for all of the teams ills. Gunther steps in and actually does worse with the same players, yet is hailed as a savior.

How's that go? Oh yeah. Chef fans, I love you retards.

I believe it was Greg Robinson who picked those players. I also believe it was Gunther Cunningham who has had one year as Chiefs D coach. I am willing to give him a little more time and an opportunity to build his own defense. The same opportunity Chiefs fans gave Robinson.

And it's....

Donko fans..........I love you retards

But thanks for the recognition.

When addressing me, try not to lump me in with the few fans who said he was a savior. I believe he is a better defensive coach than is Robinson. There are 31 other NFL teams that feel the same way. That's why he is not working in the NFL now.

I understand that you are just trying to stir the pot. But do you have to be so damn stupid about it. I mean, do you know who you're talking to?

Spider

06-13-2005, 02:48 PM

LOL WOW, way to make your point. Is the season 7 weeks long now? Is the superbowl played in April? Jesus, you'd think the chief fans would realize that the season is 16 weeks and that the Super Bowl is played in late January/early February by now.
Come now how could Chief fan know anything about the post season ? :giggle:

crazyhorse

06-13-2005, 02:50 PM

Bob, if you keep being an idiot, I will ban you.

Don't make stupid pointless posts from now on, that's your warning.

You suck as a poster here, plain and simple, and stupid things like this just irritate the hell out of me.

Start shaping up or find somewhere else to go, no one here gives a **** regardless.

Who would everyone here pick on then?

If you ban Bob, you are abusing your authority. Who's that gonna impress. What a jackass.

crazyhorse

06-13-2005, 02:51 PM

Master___Pain

06-13-2005, 02:55 PM

Are you having trouble focusing?

Nope, I am having trouble finding your point about being ranked 9th in week 7.

FADERPROOF

06-13-2005, 02:55 PM

Who would everyone here pick on then?

If you ban Bob, you are abusing your authority. Who's that gonna impress. What a jackass.

Abusing authority is subjective, and I don't need to impress anyone at all.

You really want to stick up for Bob and vouche for him that he's not an idiot?

crazyhorse

06-13-2005, 02:57 PM

Nope, I am having trouble finding your point about being ranked 9th in week 7.

Okay.

The point was that this thread was posted on the subject of the defense not getting better with Gun as coach. I said, we were better until some of the injuries started to pile up. I dont believe anyone was talking about the SB. If you wanna talk about that, you can make some excuses on how the Broncos won one without cheating. I love those.

Are you with us now?

Clockwork Orange

06-13-2005, 02:59 PM

I believe it was Greg Robinson who picked those players. I also believe it was Gunther Cunningham who has had one year as Chiefs D coach. I am willing to give him a little more time and an opportunity to build his own defense. The same opportunity Chiefs fans gave Robinson.

And it's....

Donko fans..........I love you retards

But thanks for the recognition.

When addressing me, try not to lump me in with the few fans who said he was a savior. I believe he is a better defensive coach than is Robinson. There are 31 other NFL teams that feel the same way. That's why he is not working in the NFL now.

I understand that you are just trying to stir the pot. But do you have to be so damn stupid about it. I mean, do you know who you're talking to?

Try not to fall over while backpeddling so fast.

You and the rest of the Chefs homers who frequent this place said that everything would be fine once Gunther and his brilliant schemes were in place. There was no need to bring in any talent because he'd fix everything. Convenient that you've so suddenly forgotten all about that, but no more convenient than your disappearing act at the beginning of last season when all of your offseason bravado jumped up and bit you in the ass.

It's probably not a bad idea to try and distance yourself from the rest of the dullards you were singing along with a year ago though. I guess while seeking validation on a Bronco board you need to try and score all the points you can.

Keep spinning though, it's hilarious to watch you squirm. :laugh:

Mediator12

06-13-2005, 03:02 PM

Wow...I didn't think you were this stupid. Keep digging the hole.

1. Points allowed in 2003=20: in 2004=27.

2. Yards per drive in 2003=30.11; in 2004=34.06

The hole is getting deeper BOB and you are still standing in it :dummy:

Name one major statistical category where Gunther improved the defense???

Master___Pain

06-13-2005, 03:02 PM

Okay.

The point was that this thread was posted on the subject of the defense not getting better with Gun as coach. I said, we were better until some of the injuries started to pile up. I dont believe anyone was talking about the SB. If you wanna talk about that, you can make some excuses on how the Broncos won one without cheating. I love those.

Are you with us now?

I don't make excuses, I'll leave that to you. You seem to have plenty.:thumbsup:

30 Oakland 5936 371.0 2012 125.8 3924 245.3 442 27.6

31 Kansas City 6047 377.9 1834 114.6 4213 263.3 435 27.2

32 New Orleans 6141 383.8 2253 140.8 3888 243.0 405 25.3

crazyhorse

06-13-2005, 03:05 PM

Try not to fall over while backpeddling so fast.

You and the rest of the Chefs homers who frequent this place said that everything would be fine once Gunther and his brilliant schemes were in place. There was no need to bring in any talent because he'd fix everything. Convenient that you've so suddenly forgotten all about that, but no more convenient than your disappearing act at the beginning of last season when all of your offseason bravado jumped up and bit you in the ass.

It's probably not a bad idea to try and distance yourself from the rest of the dullards you were singing along with a year ago though. I guess while seeking validation on a Bronco board you need to try and score all the points you can.

Keep spinning though, it's hilarious to watch you squirm. :laugh:

Back that up.

Not only will you find that I have not disappeared at any time over the last couple of years, you wont find any "Gunther is our savior" crap from me.

Good luck finding it.

You just kinda make it up as it suits you, huh?

crazyhorse

06-13-2005, 03:08 PM

I don't make excuses

Bull****. You are a Bronco fan who thinks you won a superbowl, aren't ya? ROFL!

FADERPROOF

06-13-2005, 03:09 PM

Bull****. You are a Bronco fan who thinks you won a superbowl, aren't ya? ROFL!

That officially what the history books say, are you going to argue against the NFL about it?

Mediator12

06-13-2005, 03:12 PM

I believe it was Greg Robinson who picked those players. I also believe it was Gunther Cunningham who has had one year as Chiefs D coach. I am willing to give him a little more time and an opportunity to build his own defense. The same opportunity Chiefs fans gave Robinson.

And it's....

Donko fans..........I love you retards

But thanks for the recognition.

When addressing me, try not to lump me in with the few fans who said he was a savior. I believe he is a better defensive coach than is Robinson. There are 31 other NFL teams that feel the same way. That's why he is not working in the NFL now.

I understand that you are just trying to stir the pot. But do you have to be so damn stupid about it. I mean, do you know who you're talking to?

Actually if stupid is as stupid does Robinson only selected one starter on last years defense, Scott Fujita. Your whole DLine, minus Denver retread Dalton, was selected by Drumroll Please... Gunther Cunningham as HC or DC. So was Beisel, Woods, Bartee, Warfield, and Wesley. Nice try though!

Carl Peterson is the common denominator in all those players too. So forgive me if he and Gunther's list are not too intimidating ROFL!

You forget with who you are dealing :hitself:

Spider

06-13-2005, 03:12 PM

That officially what the history books say, are you going to argue against the NFL about it?
;D he stayed as drunk as possible during SB 32 and 33 ..made watching SB easier on him

crazyhorse

06-13-2005, 03:13 PM

That officially what the history books say, are you going to argue against the NFL about it?

Nah.

We know the truth. That's good enough for me.

FADERPROOF

06-13-2005, 03:16 PM

;D he stayed as drunk as possible during SB 32 and 33 ..made watching SB easier on him

We could also bust out the history books on the last time the Chiefs won the Super Bowl, but Crazyhorse probably didn't even know how to talk at that time.

Bob's your Information Minister

06-13-2005, 03:16 PM

Name one major statistical category where Gunther improved the defense???

Run defense.

You should try researching your facts a little more thoroughly next time.

crazyhorse

06-13-2005, 03:16 PM

;D he stayed as drunk as possible during SB 32 and 33 ..made watching SB easier on him

Why didn't I think of that? :kiddingme

Master___Pain

06-13-2005, 03:16 PM

Bull****. You are a Bronco fan who thinks you won a superbowl, aren't ya? ROFL!

Thinks I won a superbowl? The Denver Broncos won two super bowls in 1997 and 1998, at least that's what this says

XXXII (http://www.superbowl.com/history/recaps/game/sbxxxii)

XXXIII (http://www.superbowl.com/history/recaps/game/sbxxxiii)

I am failing to find where it says they did not win these world championships???

The record books say they won them, so I guess they won them.

Master___Pain

06-13-2005, 03:17 PM

Nah.

We know the truth. That's good enough for me.

Tell me about the truth Michael Moore.

Spider

06-13-2005, 03:17 PM

Nah.

We know the truth. That's good enough for me.
we sure do , Denver went ot back 2 back Sbs and KC sat watching on thier couch like every other year .... nothing special right ... Kinda get used to losing after a bit

Spider

06-13-2005, 03:18 PM

Why didn't I think of that? :kiddingme
;D

elsid13

06-13-2005, 03:22 PM

Why didn't I think of that? :kiddingme

The easy respone would be that you're an idiot. But that would be below me to say something like that.....

rbackfactory80

06-13-2005, 03:39 PM

he had a gender change

elsid13

06-13-2005, 03:43 PM

he had a gender change

It explains those stupid glasses.

Spider

06-13-2005, 03:44 PM

We could also bust out the history books on the last time the Chiefs won the Super Bowl, but Crazyhorse probably didn't even know how to talk at that time.
History books ..... to find the Chiefs SB win , look at the Chapter right after the Cival war period ;D

FADERPROOF

06-13-2005, 04:05 PM

History books ..... to find the Chiefs SB win , look at the Chapter right after the Cival war period ;D

Actually it's the chapter right before the USA landed on the moon :)

Master___Pain

06-13-2005, 04:08 PM

Actually it's the chapter right before the USA landed on the moon :)

And right after the chapter where the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor

Spider

06-13-2005, 04:12 PM

Actually it's the chapter right before the USA landed on the moon :)
;D little over 105 years .not a very thick chapter

Mediator12

06-13-2005, 04:13 PM

Run defense.

You should try researching your facts a little more thoroughly next time.

You think maybe, just maybe, your last rated pass defense had anything to do with teams rushing three less times per game? Or was it the fact that they gave up .6 yards less per rushing attempt? Yeah, that run defense really improved. I know they could not contain Quentin Griffin even though everyone else that played against him could.

And if you had the Balls to read the entire first post BOB I made a point about it in the conclusion. Something to the effect that the Lack of a pass defense allowed for the offense to take advantage of the 31st ranked run defense per attempt in the league. No one ran against them because they were 32cd in pass defense because they had to commit to run blitzing to stop the run. Seriously, going from worst to 31st in yards per rush attempt is a lateral step IMHO. Maybe next year the Chiefs will improve to 29th.

Bob's your Information Minister

06-13-2005, 04:51 PM

Yeah, that run defense really improved.

From worst to 12th. You had an incorrect statement in your post. I called you on it.

Mediator12

06-13-2005, 04:53 PM

One last time Bob. I want you to get this straight. If you score a 50% on a test you fail. If you score a 53% the next time you take it, you still FAIL.

Having the worst pass defense in the league and Marginally improving your run defense is failing. Going from 13th in the league in points allowed to 28th is priceless. Watching Chiefs fan trying to get some satisfaction out of being the thirty first ranked yds per carry team, while bashing Denver for selecting the best DL from the Browns who ranked higher per carry is worth the price of admission.

You know why? Denver does not need them to stop the run. They need them to improve the pass rush. Denver needs a tuneup and the Chiefs need to buy a new model.

Mediator12

06-13-2005, 04:54 PM

From worst to 12th. You had an incorrect statement in your post. I called you on it.

Actually you can not read BOB. I did address it in the first post you just can not comprehend multiple trains of thought.

Bob's your Information Minister

06-13-2005, 05:02 PM

I'm done with these retarded threads.

FADERPROOF

06-13-2005, 05:11 PM

I'm done with these retarded threads.

Hopefully you think that all of these threads started here at OM are retarded so you're existence can be done here.

Sir Mawn

06-13-2005, 06:35 PM

And right after the chapter where the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor

The who bombed Pearl Harbor??

elsid13

06-13-2005, 07:04 PM

The who bombed Pearl Harbor??

Don't stop him, he is on a role.

DB-Freak

06-13-2005, 07:19 PM

The who bombed Pearl Harbor??
It was a movie reference I believe.

crazyhorse

06-13-2005, 07:22 PM

Actually if stupid is as stupid does Robinson only selected one starter on last years defense, Scott Fujita. Your whole DLine, minus Denver retread Dalton, was selected by Drumroll Please... Gunther Cunningham as HC or DC. So was Beisel, Woods, Bartee, Warfield, and Wesley. Nice try though!

Carl Peterson is the common denominator in all those players too. So forgive me if he and Gunther's list are not too intimidating ROFL!

You forget with who you are dealing :hitself:

Gunthers defense was 9th in the league until the injuries started. Didn't I say that already?

Oh, and the Dline was the best part of the defense.

Spider

06-13-2005, 07:27 PM

The who bombed Pearl Harbor??
.Animal house , the Great blotto ......... Do yourself a favor rent the movie ....

Rock Chalk

06-13-2005, 07:35 PM

Rock Chalk

06-13-2005, 07:43 PM

Gunthers defense was 9th in the league until the injuries started. Didn't I say that already?

Oh, and the Dline was the best part of the defense.
Look, we covered this. Injuries happen to every team, good coordinators are able to overcome most of the deficiencies caused by injuries to their stud players.

For instance, KC's troubles started when [insert average joe] went down in week 7 and the defense went from crap to **** just like that.

Denver's troubles started after week 1, when Pryce went down but the main difference here, and please keep in mind that Im trying to be clear, Denver's defense didnt go to ****. Granted, it was not as effective, but it was certainly not ****. **** is 31st in the league and guess what buddy, **** is what KC had.

The most humorous thing about this thread is watching the hollow and tart replies by Chef fan in this thread. You especially. Bob is on ignore so my only knowledge of him comes from inconsiderate pricks who quote him in their posts, but you have been most enjoyable here.

Sir Mawn

06-13-2005, 09:35 PM

.Animal house , the Great blotto ......... Do yourself a favor rent the movie ....

I'll do just that, then! You scared me there. :thumbs:

ScottXray

06-13-2005, 11:42 PM

The who bombed Pearl Harbor??
Now cut that out. Everyone knows the Who is a BRITISH rock band....not German!
:woowoo:

crazyhorse

06-14-2005, 04:38 AM

Look, we covered this. Injuries happen to every team, good coordinators are able to overcome most of the deficiencies caused by injuries to their stud players.

For instance, KC's troubles started when [insert average joe] went down in week 7 and the defense went from crap to **** just like that.

Denver's troubles started after week 1, when Pryce went down but the main difference here, and please keep in mind that Im trying to be clear, Denver's defense didnt go to ****. Granted, it was not as effective, but it was certainly not ****. **** is 31st in the league and guess what buddy, **** is what KC had.

The most humorous thing about this thread is watching the hollow and tart replies by Chef fan in this thread. You especially. Bob is on ignore so my only knowledge of him comes from inconsiderate pricks who quote him in their posts, but you have been most enjoyable here.

Monte Biesel
Shawn Barber
Scott Fujita
Jerome Woods
Greg Wesley
Dexter McLeon

These are 6 that were injured of 11 starters.

Now, I will be the last to claim that the defense was great. However, I will claim that that they were playing better until they were injured. I am not making an excuse. I am giving a legit reason why they would have gone from 9th to last. I doubt they would have stayed 9th all season. As has been stated, the KC defense didn't have a lot of talent. But that is not the arguement here. The arguement was that Gunther could not do better with the same players that GRob had. The fact is, that when those players were on the field, they played better than they did when GRob was coach.

Losing one player like Pryce does indeed make a difference, but like you said, a good team can overcome a reasonable amount of injuries. A good example of this would be the Chiefs and Priest Holmes. Derrick Blaylock stepped right in and did well. When he went down Johnson did well.

We also lost our right tackle and were 2 deep in depth at the position when we played Denver in December. I am sure you remember how well the offense played then.

I really dont see what is so diffiucult to understand here. ???

Tom A Hawk

06-14-2005, 05:17 AM

Actually, Tom I thought Gunther would make a difference! The fact that no Chiefs fan has been able to find ANY inconsistencies except one line internet dodges proves the point. GO home!

I think I know what you are saying........there is no way I can defend. Gunther was brought in to see if he could make a silk puse out of a sows ear.
He couldn't......hopefully this year, the changes that were made will be a step in the right direction, but it will still take some time. I think the changes made will produce a least a top 20. That may not be good enough, but it is a step in the right direction. If there was any one person to blame for the D, it is Vermeil. If there is two, Vermeil and Peterson. Neither are very good at assessing D talent.

Tredici

06-14-2005, 07:17 AM

Monte Biesel
Shawn Barber
Scott Fujita
Jerome Woods
Greg Wesley
Dexter McLeon

These are 6 that were injured of 11 starters.

Now, I will be the last to claim that the defense was great. However, I will claim that that they were playing better until they were injured. I am not making an excuse. I am giving a legit reason why they would have gone from 9th to last. I doubt they would have stayed 9th all season. As has been stated, the KC defense didn't have a lot of talent. But that is not the arguement here. The arguement was that Gunther could not do better with the same players that GRob had. The fact is, that when those players were on the field, they played better than they did when GRob was coach.

Losing one player like Pryce does indeed make a difference, but like you said, a good team can overcome a reasonable amount of injuries. A good example of this would be the Chiefs and Priest Holmes. Derrick Blaylock stepped right in and did well. When he went down Johnson did well.

We also lost our right tackle and were 2 deep in depth at the position when we played Denver in December. I am sure you remember how well the offense played then.

I really dont see what is so diffiucult to understand here. ???

You don't? Injuries are an excuse. Not a reason. Chief fans have delighted in running that crap in here for the past few years. Sadly, you ride those bandits so you die with those bandits.

Do you really want me to go into the litany of Denver boosboos the past couple of seasons? I gaurantee you we will win in that "reason" category.

NaptownChief

06-14-2005, 08:23 AM

Denver has some holes to fill and they have addressed them.

A friendly merger with the Brown Stain organization is a questionable way to address holes IMO.

Master___Pain

06-14-2005, 08:26 AM

A friendly merger with the Brown Stain organization is a questionable way to address holes IMO.

Quite true, but that will play it self out in 2005.

Florida_Bronco

06-14-2005, 09:03 AM

I love how we verbally kick the **** out of every Chief fan here :D

It's so amusing to see them come into these threads that they know are losing battles, but everytime they come anyways. Determined, but stupid.

:strong:

NaptownChief

06-14-2005, 09:05 AM

I love how we verbally kick the **** out of every Chief fan here :D

Nothing wrong with dreaming I suppose....

Florida_Bronco

06-14-2005, 09:09 AM

Nothing wrong with dreaming I suppose....

This thread sure hasn't turned out in your favor. ROFL!

NaptownChief

06-14-2005, 09:15 AM

This thread sure hasn't turned out in your favor. ROFL!

I haven't read a single post other than Mediator's original but a bunch of homers running around stroking each other off on their own board doesn't exactly equate to much my friend.

Florida_Bronco

06-14-2005, 09:19 AM

We posted stats to back up our views, the KC fans put up their views without any support and have gotten blasted...that's a verbal ass kicking in my book.

Sir Mawn

06-14-2005, 09:22 AM

Now cut that out. Everyone knows the Who is a BRITISH rock band....not German!
:woowoo:
Hilarious!

Mediator12

06-14-2005, 09:26 AM

I haven't read a single post other than Mediator's original but a bunch of homers running around stroking each other off on their own board doesn't exactly equate to much my friend.

Unfortunately Nap that is the same crap the Chiefs fans have brought too. I mean crazyhorse started to babble something about injuries and BOB really thinks Gunther improved the run defense last year. While on paper, teams did get less yards on the ground but at only half a yard less than last year per carry resulting in the 31st worst average in the league.

Since teams were more apt to torch that secondary for the highest yds per play, they also ran 75 less times at them last year. In 2003, KC was 13th in pass defense and second as a unit in INT's so teams ran for 5+ yds a carry. In 2004, the pass defense was 32cd in the league giving up 7+ yds per. Congratulations Gunther! You were able to achieve less Yards on the ground at the expense of giving up the most passing yards in the whole league. You think Coaches did not take advantage of what they were given by that "D". Run Blitzing on First down gives up a ton of Big plays in the passing game.

NaptownChief

06-14-2005, 09:27 AM

We posted stats to back up our views, the KC fans put up their views without any support and have gotten blasted...that's a verbal ass kicking in my book.

Any guess as to which character you are?

Big Dog is a bully who doesn't hesitate to use his superior strength to intimidate other combatants. Big Dog may be smart, articulate or just plain mean, but in any case he is a remorseless fighter, brutally ripping into even the weakest of combatants. Once Big Dog securely fastens his powerful jaws on a hapless victim, Me-Too will join the attack. Me-Too is far too weak and insecure to engage in single combat, and must ally himself with Big Dog or a pack of other Warriors to bring down his quarry

http://redwing.hutman.net/%7Emreed/Assets/bigdog.jpg

anthonypacino

06-14-2005, 09:42 AM

Why are there people arguing about how good the Chefs will be?
How many Super Bowls did they win with Gunther?...0, in fact I think the last time they won one Hank Stram and Len Dawson were there. The fact is they are the AFC west's Colts. (Colts-Lite since they aren't as good as the Colts). I am not going to be a homer, I think Denver will split with two West teams this year, and KC is not one of them

NaptownChief

06-14-2005, 09:44 AM

I think Denver will split with two West teams this year, and KC is not one of them

I'm sure you thought that last year and it didn't quite work out that way now did it?

Florida_Bronco

06-14-2005, 09:45 AM

Any guess as to which character you are?

Big Dog is a bully who doesn't hesitate to use his superior strength to intimidate other combatants. Big Dog may be smart, articulate or just plain mean, but in any case he is a remorseless fighter, brutally ripping into even the weakest of combatants. Once Big Dog securely fastens his powerful jaws on a hapless victim, Me-Too will join the attack. Me-Too is far too weak and insecure to engage in single combat, and must ally himself with Big Dog or a pack of other Warriors to bring down his quarry

http://redwing.hutman.net/%7Emreed/Assets/bigdog.jpg

??? ???

crazyhorse

06-14-2005, 09:51 AM

You don't? Injuries are an excuse. Not a reason. Chief fans have delighted in running that crap in here for the past few years. Sadly, you ride those bandits so you die with those bandits.

Do you really want me to go into the litany of Denver boosboos the past couple of seasons? I gaurantee you we will win in that "reason" category.

No need. I have been listening to the "excuses" for the Broncos losses for several seasons now.

Are you saying that none of the injuries have had any effect on the Broncos play over the years?

I am not making any excuses. The Chiefs were 7-9 last season. end of story. But one of the "reasons" were injuries.

Folk here are saying that Gun had the same players that Robinson did. That's not true. I dont remember;

Biesel
Harts
Dalton
Battle
Allen

starting for Robinson.

That's 5 players of 11 starters.

I am just trying to establish that it's not an apples to apples comparison, as some here would like to claim.

We'll just see how the defense is after 3 years. Robinson took a middle ranked defense and turned it to crap. Cunningham is not guilty of that. In fact, ithe there anyone here who doesn't belive the defense will be better this season? That would be two years.

I figured you to be a little more literate than you are projecting yourself to be here. Is it really that tough to understand the point of my posts?

crazyhorse

06-14-2005, 09:54 AM

crazyhorse

06-14-2005, 09:55 AM

??? ???

You're getting your ass kicked.

Florida_Bronco

06-14-2005, 09:57 AM

You're getting your ass kicked.

How do you figure that?

anthonypacino

06-14-2005, 09:57 AM

I'm sure you thought that last year and it didn't quite work out that way now did it?
True after the big start against the Cheifs I did not think Denver would split with every team in the west, even though they still managed to finish 10-6
then one and done but they still got to play one more game.

NaptownChief

06-14-2005, 10:07 AM

How do you figure that?

Probably based on the fact I got more rep from Donk fans for that Me-Too beating I gave you than any other post I have put on this board over the years.

Tredici

06-14-2005, 10:44 AM

I haven't read a single post other than Mediator's original but a bunch of homers running around stroking each other off on their own board doesn't exactly equate to much my friend.

Actually the homers stroking themselves in this thread aren't on their own board.

But then, you admittedly didn't read the posts before making a determination. Kind of like winning the Super Bowl before a down has been played in the regular season.

Florida_Bronco

06-14-2005, 10:45 AM

Probably based on the fact I got more rep from Donk fans for that Me-Too beating I gave you than any other post I have put on this board over the years.

The "me-too beating" is totally unfounded, on more than one occasion I have been the one posting facts to support my argument. In this case, someone else just beat me to it.

Try again buddy.

Tredici

06-14-2005, 10:50 AM

Are you saying that none of the injuries have had any effect on the Broncos play over the years?

I am not making any excuses. The Chiefs were 7-9 last season. end of story. But one of the "reasons" were injuries.

Folk here are saying that Gun had the same players that Robinson did. That's not true. I dont remember;

Biesel
Harts
Dalton
Battle
Allen

starting for Robinson.

That's 5 players of 11 starters.

I am just trying to establish that it's not an apples to apples comparison, as some here would like to claim.

We'll just see how the defense is after 3 years. Robinson took a middle ranked defense and turned it to crap. Cunningham is not guilty of that. In fact, ithe there anyone here who doesn't belive the defense will be better this season? That would be two years.

I figured you to be a little more literate than you are projecting yourself to be here. Is it really that tough to understand the point of my posts?

No need. I have been listening to the "excuses" for the Broncos losses for several seasons now.

Your first statement shown above makes my point. Bronco losses due to injuries are "excuses".

Therefore Chief losses due to injuries are "excuses."

You aren't really that dense are you? Tit for Tat.

Besides, Gunther the miracle coach could just plug and play, right?

Tredici

06-14-2005, 10:52 AM

The "me-too beating" is totally unfounded, on more than one occasion I have been the one posting facts to support my argument. In this case, someone else just beat me to it.

Try again buddy.

His rep undoubtedly came from the Chef fans who have very little else to cheer about in this thread. Why he wants to misrepresent them as Bronco fans is a mystery.

Mediator did a good job.

SoCalBronco

06-14-2005, 10:52 AM

, I think Denver will split with two West teams this year, and KC is not one of them

I think we will split with everyone in the division.

anthonypacino

06-14-2005, 11:02 AM

I think we will split with everyone in the division.
It's so hard to predict things now in this era of football. No way 10 years ago if a team were 3-13 then a year later 13-3. The way the NFL is now the Lions and the Texans could be in the SB! Denver's leading rusher on the team now has 396 career yards and our entire D-Line either did not play last year or were ranked 32 in the league. Some big questions, I hope for the best but I cannot go all Homer and expect a super Bowl

Florida_Bronco

06-14-2005, 11:03 AM

His rep undoubtedly came from the Chef fans who have very little else to cheer about in this thread. Why he wants to misrepresent them as Bronco fans is a mystery.

Mediator did a good job.

Thanks man :alky:

I posted this... We posted stats to back up our views, the KC fans put up their views without any support and have gotten blasted...that's a verbal ass kicking in my book.

And now I'm "Me-too" I guess ???

crazyhorse

06-14-2005, 11:40 AM

No need. I have been listening to the "excuses" for the Broncos losses for several seasons now.

Your first statement shown above makes my point. Bronco losses due to injuries are "excuses".

Therefore Chief losses due to injuries are "excuses."

You aren't really that dense are you? Tit for Tat.

Besides, Gunther the miracle coach could just plug and play, right?

You must not have noticed the quotations around the word "excuses". I was quoting your term for injuries. It was sarcasm. Ironic, huh?

That's Crazyhorse 2 tats
Tred- no t*ts

j/k ROFL!

NaptownChief

06-14-2005, 12:11 PM

Mediator did a good job.

Mediator did a good job of making a case as to why things would be a lot different last year against the Colts with Bailey and how Coyer was going to make sure Manning got the smug smile off his face etc.etc...He really did build a great case and had me buying it but it turned out to be far from reality. So regardless of what kind of great case he built in here hoping the Chiefs D blows and the Donks will work them etc.etc I couldn't care less. It will be settled on the field and I just hope he is as accurate about this as he was about Coyer and Bailey taking care of the Colts.

NaptownChief

06-14-2005, 12:13 PM

Thanks man :alky:

Would somebody please pull Me-Too off his leg...There is kids present.

Tredici

06-14-2005, 01:19 PM

Would somebody please pull Me-Too off his leg...There is kids present.

It's a hers leg.

Tredici

06-14-2005, 01:20 PM

You must not have noticed the quotations around the word "excuses". I was quoting your term for injuries. It was sarcasm. Ironic, huh?

That's Crazyhorse 2 tats
Tred- no t*ts

j/k ROFL!

And I was quoting former Chief fans.

See how it works?

I was there first and you are still going around in circles.

NaptownChief

06-14-2005, 01:21 PM

It's a hers leg.

Sorry about that...All you Donk fans look alike....

Tredici

06-14-2005, 01:23 PM

Mediator did a good job of making a case as to why things would be a lot different last year against the Colts with Bailey and how Coyer was going to make sure Manning got the smug smile off his face etc.etc...He really did build a great case and had me buying it but it turned out to be far from reality. So regardless of what kind of great case he built in here hoping the Chiefs D blows and the Donks will work them etc.etc I couldn't care less. It will be settled on the field and I just hope he is as accurate about this as he was about Coyer and Bailey taking care of the Colts.

That's so cute. Read the thread.

There isn't anything about hoping the Chiefs D blow and the Broncos will work them.

Is reading a handicap for Chief fans?

Tredici

06-14-2005, 01:24 PM

Sorry about that...All you Donk fans look alike....

We are almost as interchangeable as the Chorf fans who hang here, huh? I can see how that herd mentality clouds your ability.

NaptownChief

06-14-2005, 01:46 PM

Is reading a handicap for Chief fans?

Only the nonsense that comes out of Donk fans...You don't have to get testy just because I can't tell you and Taco apart...

Florida_Bronco

06-14-2005, 06:58 PM

That's so cute. Read the thread.

There isn't anything about hoping the Chiefs D blow and the Broncos will work them.

Is reading a handicap for Chief fans?

Hahahaha nice Ha!

Bronx33

06-14-2005, 07:00 PM

Gunther wrote a song.........http://www.clayloomis.com/DDouche2.wav

DBroncos4life

06-14-2005, 07:50 PM

My guess this will be Gunthers last year at KC as well. Odds are when the new staff comes in Gunther will be on his way out again. And I love how KC fans bash the Bailey trade still because they too have ALOT of money tied up in a much older CB.

DBroncos4life

06-14-2005, 07:54 PM

Player Profile
Surtain, Patrick
View Stats at Players Inc Site
Player Info
Draft Info

CB (#23)
Year: 1998

Kansas City Chiefs
Round: 2

Plantation, FL
Position: 14

Salary History

1998 265000.00
1999 331250.00
2000 397500.00
2001 500000.00
2002 525000.00
2003 5062500.00
2004 5400000.00
2005 665000.00
2006 1335000.00
2007 4650000.00
2008 5650000.00
2009 7000000.00
2010 7500000.00
2011 8000000.00

Player Profile
Bailey, Roland
View Stats at Players Inc Site
Player Info
Draft Info

CB (#24)
Year: 1999

Denver Broncos
Round: 1

Englewood, CO
Position: 7

Salary History

2004 1000000.00
2005 1000000.00
2006 5500000.00
2007 5500000.00
2008 7500000.00
2009 6500000.00
2010 9500000.00

Florida_Bronco

06-15-2005, 08:46 AM

Good post DBroncos. Surtain is only making 1.5 million less this year than Bailey (which isn't much in the NFL today) and is not close to the player Bailey is.

redrage

06-15-2005, 08:49 AM

I would take Bailey over Surtain as well, but it's a bit of a stretch to say the they aren't even close. Surtain is a soild Pro-Bowl CB.

NaptownChief

06-15-2005, 08:55 AM

Good post DBroncos. Surtain is only making 1.5 million less this year than Bailey (which isn't much in the NFL today) and is not close to the player Bailey is.

Me-too put the homer pipe down and back away....I'm sure Surtain could get smoked all day long by Eddie Kennison just as well as Chump.

Florida_Bronco

06-15-2005, 08:57 AM

I would take Bailey over Surtain as well, but it's a bit of a stretch to say the they aren't even close. Surtain is a soild Pro-Bowl CB.

Well remember, he had Sam Madison, another Pro Bowler, opposite him in Miami and was often seeing the number 2 receiver, a luxury Bailey has never really had. Now that he is in KC where the other corner will be Warfield or McCleon, and he'll be taking on the number 1 receiver, we'll see just how good he really is.

NaptownChief

06-15-2005, 08:58 AM

redrage

06-15-2005, 09:02 AM

Well remember, he had Sam Madison, another Pro Bowler, opposite him in Miami and was often seeing the number 2 receiver, a luxury Bailey has never really had. Now that he is in KC where the other corner will be Warfield or McCleon, and he'll be taking on the number 1 receiver, we'll see just how good he really is.

Well that is even more of an endorsement IMO. Teams couldn't throw away from him and he still made the Pro-Bowl.

I don't think that is true, though. I have a couple very knowledgable Dolphin fan friends and both would say Surtain was better than Madison. He shut down Moss when they play Minnesota.

Florida_Bronco

06-15-2005, 09:02 AM

Me-too put the homer pipe down and back away....I'm sure Surtain could get smoked all day long by Eddie Kennison just as well as Chump.

Everyone has makes bad plays, you can't be perfect all the time. But ya know in Denver Bailey sure wasn't getting smoked and in KC he only got beaten badly once, if I remember correctly.

And again...how am I "me too." Might it have something to do with the fact that us Denver fans have actually got something here in this thread you have no logical argument for, so you resort to trying to dog a relative newbie to save a little face?

Sad, just sad tsk tsk

redrage

06-15-2005, 09:03 AM

Seem to me like Bailey had some pretty good corners across the way in Skinville with Smoot and D.Green.
Yup

NaptownChief

06-15-2005, 09:06 AM

that us Denver fans

When you stop using terms like the one above looking for group credit you might have a chance of shedding the Me-Too label but at this point it seems way too fitting.

Florida_Bronco

06-15-2005, 09:10 AM

Well that is even more of an endorsement IMO. Teams couldn't throw away from him and he still made the Pro-Bowl.

True, to an extent. But my point is that he wasn't covering the top receiver most the time, is KC he's going to have to be the man to do that.

I don't think that is true, though. I have a couple very knowledgable Dolphin fan friends and both would say Surtain was better than Madison. He shut down Moss when they play Minnesota.

Dunno about him shutting down Moss, I never saw them play the Vikings. Even if it's true though, I wouldn't get too excited. In 1999 when we played Minnesota we kept Randy in check with Ray Crockett and Tory James playing corner (I believe Dale Carter was injured that game, but I'm not sure).

Madison vs. Surtain is all opinion I guess. In all that Miami games I watch here (and there are alot, being in FL) I've been more impressed with Madison than Surtain.

NaptownChief

06-15-2005, 09:13 AM

I've been more impressed with Madison than Surtain.

And in true Me-too style.....We have been more impressed with Smoot than Bailey.

Florida_Bronco

06-15-2005, 09:26 AM

Seem to me like Bailey had some pretty good corners across the way in Skinville with Smoot and D.Green.

That argument is irrelvent because those guys weren't taking the number 1 receiver (with the possible exception of Green in 99) like Bailey was. Bailey was still working on the oppositions biggest threat at receiver, no matter what the other corners were doing.

When Bailey came into the league in 1999, that was the last year I remember Green being a full time starter, after that he went into the nickel role. Smoot was good but he definetly wasn't taking number 1 receivers.

When you stop using terms like the one above looking for group credit you might have a chance of shedding the Me-Too label but at this point it seems way too fitting.

Last time I checked, I was a Broncos fan so that would include me in that group. Group credit? I never tried, nor do I, take credit for any of the solid statistical evidence that proves your defense actually got worse under Gunther Cunningham. You make the mistake of assuming that just because I am involved in this thread without adding statistical proof, that therefor I must be involved in all threads I post in without adding that proof.

Believe it or not, on more than a couple occasions I have posted that proof to back up my statements. Mediator was the one to post the stats in this thread, therefor there was no need for me to do it. Now by your criteria that would make everyone else in this thread a "me-too."

NaptownChief

06-15-2005, 09:47 AM

Now by your criteria that would make everyone else in this thread a "me-too."

No....just you Me-Too

Nothing wrong with being Me-Too. I've got this cat that is three who still acts like a kitten always wanting to play and when his big sister is doing anything he always wants to be part of the action and comes bounding around with the Me-too, Me-too bit also...Pretty good stuff.

Tom A Hawk

06-15-2005, 09:47 AM

That argument is irrelvent because those guys weren't taking the number 1 receiver (with the possible exception of Green in 99) like Bailey was. Bailey was still working on the oppositions biggest threat at receiver, no matter what the other corners were doing.

When Bailey came into the league in 1999, that was the last year I remember Green being a full time starter, after that he went into the nickel role. Smoot was good but he definetly wasn't taking number 1 receivers.

Last time I checked, I was a Broncos fan so that would include me in that group. Group credit? I never tried, nor do I, take credit for any of the solid statistical evidence that proves your defense actually got worse under Gunther Cunningham. You make the mistake of assuming that just because I am involved in this thread without adding statistical proof, that therefor I must be involved in all threads I post in without adding that proof.

Believe it or not, on more than a couple occasions I have posted that proof to back up my statements. Mediator was the one to post the stats in this thread, therefor there was no need for me to do it. Now by your criteria that would make everyone else in this thread a "me-too."

In one of your previous posts you stated:
We posted stats to back up our views, the KC fans put up their views without any support and have gotten blasted...that's a verbal ass kicking in my book. Looks might me-too to me to :thumbs:
and then you say: Last time I checked, I was a Broncos fan so that would include me in that group. Group credit? I never tried, nor do I, take credit for any of the solid statistical evidence that proves your defense actually got worse under Gunther Cunningham. still sounds like me-too.
need any other examples

Billy Clyde Puckett

06-15-2005, 10:05 AM

No....just you Me-Too

Nothing wrong with being Me-Too. I've got this cat that is three who still acts like a kitten always wanting to play and when his big sister is doing anything he always wants to be part of the action and comes bounding around with the Me-too, Me-too bit also...Pretty good stuff.

Nappy - Are you really Mock's illegitimate son?

redrage

06-15-2005, 10:28 AM

True, to an extent. But my point is that he wasn't covering the top receiver most the time, is KC he's going to have to be the man to do that.

Dunno about him shutting down Moss, I never saw them play the Vikings. Even if it's true though, I wouldn't get too excited. In 1999 when we played Minnesota we kept Randy in check with Ray Crockett and Tory James playing corner (I believe Dale Carter was injured that game, but I'm not sure).

Madison vs. Surtain is all opinion I guess. In all that Miami games I watch here (and there are alot, being in FL) I've been more impressed with Madison than Surtain.

Well, I think we are just nitpicking at this point. I wouldn't throw either one off the team. You can't have the best player in the league at every position.

I think Surtain will do as well as anyone on teams' #1 WRs, but having him allows Warfield to become the #2 guy which most KC fans felt he has been all his career. Once he comes back from his league suspension (if, when? all to determined yet) KC will be at the very least adequate at that position.

Not only is Warfield better suited for the #2 spot, Dextor McCleon is far better suited to man the slot. Bartee is far better suited to get kicked off the team. So the benefits run down the entire roster.

Florida_Bronco

06-15-2005, 10:37 AM

Well, I think we are just nitpicking at this point. I wouldn't throw either one off the team. You can't have the best player in the league at every position.

I think Surtain will do as well as anyone on teams' #1 WRs, but having him allows Warfield to become the #2 guy which most KC fans felt he has been all his career. Once he comes back from his league suspension (if, when? all to determined yet) KC will be at the very least adequate at that position.

Not only is Warfield better suited for the #2 spot, Dextor McCleon is far better suited to man the slot. Bartee is far better suited to get kicked off the team. So the benefits run down the entire roster.

Oh don't get me wrong, I'm not saying at all that Surtain isn't a solid corner. I'm also not saying he's gonna fall apart in KC. I'm just saying that there is the chance Surtain will be exposed being on the number 1 receiver.

He could very easily prove to be just as solid on the number 1, but I think he's got something to prove.