O-Line One of the Best

[Johnny Games]

I was reading an article ranking o-lines around the NFL, and they had the Broncos pretty highly ranked:

O-Line Rankings (http://www.gridirongrumblings.com/offensive_line_rankings.php)

Starters: Lepsis, Hamilton, Nalen, Carlisle, Foster

Reserves: Myers, Alexander, Sewell, Spikes, Clement

Comments: Always a strong unit, the Broncos line may be seeing a slight decline this season. C Nalen is still excellent but he is getting older. Top reserve Alexander recently tore his ACL in a 4-wheeler accident. Carlisle is a new starter at G replacing Neil. This is still a well above-average line that will open up plenty of running lanes for whoever is the Denver RB, but they won't be the elite unit they have been for the past several years.

Grade: B+

Still not an elite line? :pity: Must be a Raiders fan that wrote the article...

[Clockwork Orange]

They're not an elite line. An elite line is outstanding in pass protection, which the Broncos O-line is not. They're amongst the elite in run blocking as has been proven year after year.

I think a B+ is a pretty fair grade.

[Kaylore]

Sorry, but I think we'll be better this year. Dan Neil is gone, and the younger guys will have more experience under their bely. Tyson Clabo looks legit. Lepsis will have a season at Left Tackle behind him, so he should be better. Overall, I'd say we stay the same in run blocking (which is awesome) and we get a bit better in pass protection.

[Swedish Extrovert]

We might be better?

STOP THE PRESSES!

Nalen is getting older?

****... what a horrible thing to happen

Wait, I thought everybody in the history of mankind is getting older?

[-Slap-]

We will still struggle against teams with big physical defensive tackles and we're still going to have problems run blocking in the red zone. Right guard is still a definite weak link.

[Swedish Extrovert]

I agree. I never liked Carlisle.

I like the system though. Having a moble QB like Plummer really helps it out. Our line can handle small, quick D-lineman... and Plummer can outrun the big fellers.

[Tombstone RJ]

George Foster is quickly becoming the best player on the oline. He's got the size, the feet and the tenure to become the dominant force on Denver's oline... plus, he's a first round pick, so he pretty much is forced to be the best asset the Broncos have on the oline.

[Dean]

The Broncos' line will be strong in the run game, strong in getting to the linebackers, and great at sealing the backside pursuit. When it comes to their weaknesses, I think that Slap hit the nail on the head. Until we use some high picks to get linement that are both athletic and big, we will continue to have these same problems.

[kappys]

Its acutally our interior line thats the problem. Foster played extremely well last year as did Lepsis. If they can keep that up will do well against DE's and outside runs. However, the interior line is rather weak. They get pushed around too much by big DT's, as SLAP pointed out, which is magnified in the red zone when teams bring in their biggest DT's to stuff the middle.

[watermock]

Denver's biggest problem is size, particuliarly in the red zone. That's why you see Kubiak trying to spread the field in the redzone.

These morons don't have a freaking clue. There are at least 10 people that know more about the OL in Denver than this fool.

Someone explain to me why we might see a "slight decline" when Lepsis is his second year, Foster is still improving, Nalen shows no sign of declining at all, and Hamilton is also going into his prime years.

We got Clarett and have groomed House to backup, Claybo seems to be kicking ass in NFLE, and we shored up the position nicely. If anything, this squad, altho it might miss Neil a bit, is becoming even more experienced in their positions.

It's classic east coast hopefull garbage.

The most amusing thing would be to have Ron Dayne run for 1600 yards and shut up their pathetic flatulence.

[watermock]

How did we get pushed around in the redzone?

Kubiak would call a fly pattern to Lelie every time on first down. The stone cold fact is Denver didn't even try to run the ball in the red zone.

There was pathetic playcalling in the redzone. Just for example, Droughns marched right down the field to a first and goal at the three, and Jake audibles into a double covered fade pattern that was barely over the goal line, yet alone the outside corner.

Droughns would march the ball all the way down the field, and Kubiak would get out his dunce hat.

[DBroncos4life]

Josh Sewell will make our RG problems go away :thumbsup:

[watermock]

I'm not worried out our OL at all, altho we might get a top pick next year.

I'm not sure some Josh Sewell homer knows what he's talking about, but we should be able to get some line help next year. For now, the article is just hopefull thinking.

Both Lepsis and Nalen, while aging, are healthy. Can I repeat this for the idiots on the east coast? HEALTHY. Foster is finally HEALTHY. Cooper is HEALTHY. Hamilton is HEALTHY.

Our big question mark is DL, not OL. These east coast pundits are quite amusing.

[watermock]

I don't mind him giving the line a B+, it's his logic that is flawed.

The whole line is healthy, and has adequate depth, which of course, of big consternation here, but that has been adressed.

We brought in three former starters, and three prospects for the line. I'm sorry to rant, but Denver's line isn't a problem whatsoever.

Just to add, can you imagine this pundits opinion if we lost Hamilton and Coop and Putz?

We re-signed all three, and signed a couple more starters as backups.

The fact we managed to re-sign all three speaks volumes about how Denver is run.

Then we brought in a few more vets, and a couple prospects.

If the guy had a clue, he would know our achilles heel is in a green secondary.

[-Slap-]

How did we get pushed around in the redzone?

Kubiak would call a fly pattern to Lelie every time on first down. The stone cold fact is Denver didn't even try to run the ball in the red zone.

There was pathetic playcalling in the redzone. Just for example, Droughns marched right down the field to a first and goal at the three, and Jake audibles into a double covered fade pattern that was barely over the goal line, yet alone the outside corner.

Droughns would march the ball all the way down the field, and Kubiak would get out his dunce hat.

Get a satellite dish and watch the ballgames and then you can chime in with a bunch of exaggerated nonsense about the playcalling.

[Swedish Extrovert]

I like the broncos. I think fOster has potential, and will be our force against the big suys. the only dude im worried about is carlisle we couold be elite if we had a good gaurd and every one else on our live

I'd like to say something here... but I dont really wana. I'm in a hilton in dwontown Jacksonville right now with a girl namde Sarah, and Im spent agter two bottle sof chateu ste michelle merlot.

She's out right now, but my comps open. I gues im out for the night

[Pat Bowlen]

We should have a MightySmurf and watermock forum, so that I wouldn't have to wade through all the football-related threads just to hear them talk about themselves.

[wabbit]

We will still struggle against teams with big physical defensive tackles and we're still going to have problems run blocking in the red zone. Right guard is still a definite weak link.

Exactly.

The price you pay for the smaller, quicker line...but that red zone will always be a problem.

Foster is a move in the right direction, and I'm reading that this Tyson Clabo might be a find, but as long as the Broncs employ this OL philosophy, you have to believe the red zone will be a fundamental issue

[Rocket 7]

We will still struggle against teams with big physical defensive tackles and we're still going to have problems run blocking in the red zone. Right guard is still a definite weak link.
Your right.Look at the problems we had aganist Jacksonville last year. Nalen is still pretty good and can help out alot but the right guard will have some growing pains.

[watermock]

Get a satellite dish and watch the ballgames and then you can chime in with a bunch of exaggerated nonsense about the playcalling.

So classic.

We were 28th in the redzone not because of the line, but because Kubiak pulled Putz and went nintendo.

I saw 11 of the games. Go sit in the corner. If your had any brains you would of bet on Alex today.

Did you there buddy?

[DBroncos4life]

I'm not worried out our OL at all, altho we might get a top pick next year.

I'm not sure some Josh Sewell homer knows what he's talking about, but we should be able to get some line help next year. For now, the article is just hopefull thinking.

Both Lepsis and Nalen, while aging, are healthy. Can I repeat this for the idiots on the east coast? HEALTHY. Foster is finally HEALTHY. Cooper is HEALTHY. Hamilton is HEALTHY.

Our big question mark is DL, not OL. These east coast pundits are quite amusing.



You telling me I don't know what Im talking about? :pigsfly:

[Pat Bowlen]

If your had any brains...
Is he one of the new posters?

[watermock]

Exactly.

The price you pay for the smaller, quicker line...but that red zone will always be a problem.

Foster is a move in the right direction, and I'm reading that this Tyson Clabo might be a find, but as long as the Broncs employ this OL philosophy, you have to believe the red zone will be a fundamental issue

I totally dissagree.

I feel it was weakness of confidence in the OL, more than an actual deficiency.

We march down the field then lost confidence, right when the enemy was reeling. That's hot how you win games, and we saw it again and again.

First thing idiot Pubiak would do would be to send Lelie on a fly pattern in a short field.

Hell, you don't have to agree with anything I say, just look at the stats.

Our playmaker was either Jake rolling out or Patrick Hape.

If that doesn't tell you something your blind.

[watermock]

I have full confidence that Clarett can run behind Coop and Foster in the Red Zone. The real question is if Kubiak will let him.

[wabbit]

Mock, for cryin' out loud, it's physics.

A man one-and-a-half times your size will cause you more problems in tight spaces than open spaces where you can manuever...thus, the red zone problems...particularly noticable in the run game right now.

The NFL has graduated to enormous DT's, while the Broncos have maintained a blocking scheme dependent on quick zone blocks with smaller, quicker linemen...and they become less effective in the tighter space of the red zone.

The scheme itself works...item of note: the Super Bowl years with Terrell Davis. Well, we don't have a Terrell Davis any longer.

[chanesaw]

Even teams with big OLines had trouble with Jax's DTs last year. I do think that Clabo will be a good lineman when he is called upon.

[Breck Bronc]

Is he one of the new posters?Yes, your just signed up and is new to the site. your has demonstrated to be on the same posting level as Mock, which isn't good news for your. your plays first base for his company's softball team. His manager tells him, "your on first", but your has struggled with catching short hops from his shortstop and might lose his job. your is a huge Broncos fan and also a big fan of yours, Pat. That's I'll I know about your right now.

[Swedish Extrovert]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Breck Bronc again.

[Kaylore]

Yes, your just signed up and is new to the site. your has demonstrated to be on the same posting level as Mock, which isn't good news for your. your plays first base for his company's softball team. His manager tells him, "your on first", but your has struggled with catching short hops from his shortstop and might lose his job. your is a huge Broncos fan and also a big fan of yours, Pat. That's I'll I know about your right now.
Your is weird.

[Mtbrncofn]

Yes, your just signed up and is new to the site. your has demonstrated to be on the same posting level as Mock, which isn't good news for your. your plays first base for his company's softball team. His manager tells him, "your on first", but your has struggled with catching short hops from his shortstop and might lose his job. your is a huge Broncos fan and also a big fan of yours, Pat. That's I'll I know about your right now.


Ha! That was hysterical!

[Jason in LA]

It's funny that nobody ever gets credit for the Broncos running game. No RB ever gets credit, and no O lineman ever gets any credit. The system and players all work well together, but there has to be some special players to make it work as good as it has worked.

The Broncos have been good in pass protection. I think only the Colts gave up less sacks. The running game is always in the top 5. What more do people expect?

[Rocket 7]

It's funny that nobody ever gets credit for the Broncos running game. No RB ever gets credit, and no O lineman ever gets any credit. The system and players all work well together, but there has to be some special players to make it work as good as it has worked.

The Broncos have been good in pass protection. I think only the Colts gave up less sacks. The running game is always in the top 5. What more do people expect?
Wins in the playoffs is what people are going by. That will all change this year. This is OUR year. Alot of people are gonna have to eat their own words.Just don't choke on your uretha.

[baja]

Mock, for cryin' out loud, it's physics.

A man one-and-a-half times your size will cause you more problems in tight spaces than open spaces where you can manuever...thus, the red zone problems...particularly noticable in the run game right now.

The NFL has graduated to enormous DT's, while the Broncos have maintained a blocking scheme dependent on quick zone blocks with smaller, quicker linemen...and they become less effective in the tighter space of the red zone.

The scheme itself works...item of note: the Super Bowl years with Terrell Davis. Well, we don't have a Terrell Davis any longer.

I think Niel knew that last year and that is why he held so often in the red zone so we would be backed out of the red zone which gave us more room to work and score. :-)

[watermock]

I'm perfectly aware that Denver is undersized in the redzone Wabbit.

That doesn't mean you throw out what got you down the field whatsoever.

We marched up and down the field all year, and when we put in our redzone pack, we were 28th in the NFL.

You can't lay that on the OL, that is laid on poor playcalling. We throw a fade pattern to Rod Smith on first and three?

We are replete with stupid playcalls.

Let me explain this again if your too dim to understand it.

We marched up and down the field, yet were horrible in the red zone.

What part of this eludes you?

It's not the OL, or they wouldn't of marched down the field in the first place. Jesus Christ.

[wabbit]

OK Mock, perhaps I am a little dim, but what I'm saying, or trying to anyway, is that since Shanahan came here & hired Alex Gibbs, the Broncos have employed a zone blocking scheme that requires linemen to be light on their feet.

It's worked well...but NOT so much so in the red zone since the departures of Elway & Davis.

I agree some of the play-calling is nothing short of goofy down deep, but in tighter spaces like the red zone, the Bronco O-Line hasn't performed all that well, and it's a fundamental flaw in the scheme.

With numbskull play-calling aside, we might be fine if the line were all made in the image of George Foster...it's not, so while it works well in space...say, between the 20's...it can't power the ball from there.

I see the Broncos trying to steadily increase the size of it's O-linemen while maintaining it's athletic requirements, and that's fantastic if you can find those people, but Denver's scheme does require things that a lot of the behemoths out there cannot do.

As a result, things don't really change...merry marches between the twenties, & a struggle from there. I see the same thing this year...to a lesser degree. Why the improvement, you ask...or maybe you don't...because the linemen they have are developing ARE bigger...Carlisle, Hamilton, Clement...even 6th rounder Chris Meyers.

so....there!!

[DBroncos4life]

OK Mock, perhaps I am a little dim, but what I'm saying, or trying to anyway, is that since Shanahan came here & hired Alex Gibbs, the Broncos have employed a zone blocking scheme that requires linemen to be light on their feet.

It's worked well...but NOT so much so in the red zone since the departures of Elway & Davis.

I agree some of the play-calling is nothing short of goofy down deep, but in tighter spaces like the red zone, the Bronco O-Line hasn't performed all that well, and it's a fundamental flaw in the scheme.

With numbskull play-calling aside, we might be fine if the line were all made in the image of George Foster...it's not, so while it works well in space...say, between the 20's...it can't power the ball from there.

I see the Broncos trying to steadily increase the size of it's O-linemen while maintaining it's athletic requirements, and that's fantastic if you can find those people, but Denver's scheme does require things that a lot of the behemoths out there cannot do.

As a result, things don't really change...merry marches between the twenties, & a struggle from there. I see the same thing this year...to a lesser degree. Why the improvement, you ask...or maybe you don't...because the linemen they have are developing ARE bigger...Carlisle, Hamilton, Clement...even 6th rounder Chris Meyers.

so....there!!


Hey Wabbit would you have any info on Sewell for me? How is he looking and is he getting reps at RG?

[wabbit]

Hey Wabbit would you have any info on Sewell for me? How is he looking and is he getting reps at RG?

Haven't been out there in a while DB. I won't see these people until I go out to the mini-camp in July.

SoCal always seems up to speed on the newcomers. You might PM him & ask.

[DBroncos4life]

Haven't been out there in a while DB. I won't see these people until I go out to the mini-camp in July.

SoCal always seems up to speed on the newcomers. You might PM him & ask.


Ok I can do that. You could have just lied and told me he was doing great though ;D

[Rock Chalk]

I think Niel knew that last year and that is why he held so often in the red zone so we would be backed out of the red zone which gave us more room to work and score. :-)
Nah, Neil's not that smart.

[baja]

Nah, Neil's not that smart.

You need to put your old avatar back right now! The full body one!

[elsid13]

What I never understood, is why we don't attack the edges of the defense when we are in the red zone. The running plays seem to designed to go right up the gut, a weakness. With House at TE and decent size FB this should have been opperunity for success. Maybe Kubs never thought we would enough time to run something off Tackle.

[chrisp]

Going back to the original article I find it wierd that someone would say we've been good for years but may begin to decline next year. In my mind the line had declined to a point where it could be considered a weakness on the team but showed big improvement last season, so we're already on the up again.

Having said this, the decline, such as it was, was evidenced mainly in pass-protection: the running game has always been good. Moving to a more mobile QB has clearly suited the athletic style of our smaller linemen a lot better and that's part of why our pass protection has become better.

Where I think we really struggled last year was inside: part of the reason we couldn't convert 3rd downs was our short-yardage inside-running was woeful. Personally, I think that situation asks a lot more of your O-linemen and we had Dan Neil struggling with the fact that he was basically done.

We clearly need to upgrade the size: our interior O-line was giving up an average of 15lbs a man to the smaller Dlines! If we can start to get the average weight the right side of 300lbs i think we'll be fine.

I'm also optimistic that we have a greater chance of finding buried treasure in the FA pool we've picked up becuase so few other teams seem to be looking at the same kind of linemen that we are - they all just seem to go for 'the bigger the better' - except for Atlanta now of course......:-)

[Atlas]

They're not an elite line. An elite line is outstanding in pass protection, which the Broncos O-line is not. They're amongst the elite in run blocking as has been proven year after year.

I think a B+ is a pretty fair grade.

They only gave up 12 sacks last year

[DB-Freak]

They only gave up 12 sacks last year

PLummer's curse and blessing.

Refusing to take sacks and his mobility.

[-Slap-]

Its hard to sack a guy who rolls out all game long. Good defenses will exploit his limitations and harrass him into ineffective performances, though.

[Atlas]

PLummer's curse and blessing.

Refusing to take sacks and his mobility.

The line played ver well in pass protecting last year. Most mobile NFL QBs usually get sacked more because they tend to run more and will get caught behind the LOS. The fact that Plummer only got sacked 12 times last year is a big credit to the Oline.

[DB-Freak]

The line played ver well in pass protecting last year. Most mobile NFL QBs usually get sacked more because they tend to run more and will get caught behind the LOS. The fact that Plummer only got sacked 12 times last year is a big credit to the Oline.
You're entitled to your own opinion.

But I can't see how the O line gets much credit for the low sack number. That was mostly plummer's work.

[DB-Freak]

Its hard to sack a guy who rolls out all game long. Good defenses will exploit his limitations and harrass him into ineffective performances, though.
True.

I just hope he somewhat improved his game.

[fontaine]

Yes the OL is undersized in the interior, yes we can march up and down the field but not inside the red zone,

But it's not the OL that scores touchdowns. Sure, having a bigger OL will give us more power but the trade off isn't great. A bigger OL will be a definite advantage in power formationss like goal line situations or 3rd and short but that's about it.

Why give up our effective zone blocking that allows for 1000 yard running backs with bigger OL just for that?

Don't get me wrong, the team should keep trying to develop OL that are big and agile like Foster but even with a bigger OL you still need the right skill players on offense to score TDs. We could have had a great big OL last year and still done poorly in the red zone given the only viable threat we had down there was Rod. Lelie/Putz disapeared, Watts was dropping TD catches, and Droughns was a predictable, up the gut type of runner who wasn't effective bouncing outside when the secondary was lined up closer in the red zone.

[eddie mac]

I reckon Mike Anderson may get the call in the redzone this year. He's more powerful than Tatum and Quentin plus I've read that he's No1 RB at present anyway. Anyone of our O-Linemen or D-Linemen play full-back inside the 5???

[Sprout]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Breck Bronc again.

I gave some for you. It was worth it for the first laugh of the day.