Opinion thread - Your best FA signing of the year? Second best? Third?

[baja]

Here's mine;

1. Courtney Brown

2. Warren

3. Jerry Rice

[-Slap-]

Opinion thread - Your best FA signing of the year? Second best? Third?

1 - Peter Boulware

2 - LJ Shelton

3 - Jeff Garcia

Well, you asked for, "your best FA signings" and those were mine.

The worst was Gold, easily.

[baja]

I wish we had been able to sign Garcia too

[baja]

lack of a quality back up QB is the Achilles heel of this team IMO

[wabbit]

I'm not as certain about the 'best' three FA acquisitions...they need to play a few games first, but I can, with some certainty list the three most important;

1) Todd Sauerbrun: Despite the endless knucklehead antics, he will free
Denver from it's piss-poor field position problems of the last 5 years...at
least for one season anyway

2) Courtney Brown: Just one healthy season, say some, and you'll know why
he was a #1 over-all selection. Personally, I'll settle for a healthy year in
which he takes the double teams off Pryce

3) Stephen Alexander: More than insurance, Alexander brings good hands to a
2-TE offense AND better blocking than Putzier (at this point). He has nice
size/speed and presents a big target for Plummer

Best college FA signing:

Brandon Browner CB: This guys seems to be clear evidence that the scouts & coaches get so wrapped up in stats & measureables that they can't separate the 'players' from the mob

[SoCalBronco]

I'm not as certain about the 'best' three FA acquisitions...they need to play a few games first, but I can, with some certainty list the three most important;

1) Todd Sauerbrun: Despite the endless knucklehead antics, he will free
Denver from it's piss-poor field position problems of the last 5 years...at
least for one season anyway

2) Courtney Brown: Just one healthy season, say some, and you'll know why
he was a #1 over-all selection. Personally, I'll settle for a healthy year in
which he takes the double teams off Pryce

3) Stephen Alexander: More than insurance, Alexander brings good hands to a
2-TE offense AND better blocking than Putzier (at this point). He has nice
size/speed and presents a big target for Plummer

Best college FA signing:

Brandon Browner CB: This guys seems to be clear evidence that the scouts & coaches get so wrapped up in stats & measureables that they can't separate the 'players' from the mob

Gold homers, take notice how Wabbit didnt even mention Little Pussy Ian.

[Play2win]

I am real psyched about Gerard Warren Because of his size. I really hope he is a force in the middle. If we have very good SIZE and STRENGTH upfront on the line, and speed everywhere else, good things are going to happen.

[SoCalBronco]

I am real psyched about Gerard Warren Because of his size. I really hope he is a force in the middle. If we have very good SIZE and STRENGTH upfront on the line, and speed everywhere else, good things are going to happen.

yep. warren is the guy of the whole group i am most excited about.

[-Slap-]

We traded for Warren.

[Play2win]

We traded for Warren.
Details, details...

[TheReverend]

We did trade for Warren.

#1. Courtney Brown

#2. Jerry Rice

#3. This one's for you SoCal... Ian Gold

[SpringStein]

We traded for Warren.

Technically, we also traded for Sauerbrun. As I remember, a 7th rounder and, drum roll please, Baker.

[MajikMan7]

#1. DE Courtney Brown

#2. RB Ron "the great" Dayne

#3. T Anthony Clement

[Hercules Rockefeller]

We traded for Warren.

and Denver traded for Sauerbrun too, so guess Wabbit will have to re-do his list.

BFD.

[baja]

What I should have titled the thread is;

Who do you think was our best non drafted acquisition this year, 2nd? third?

[wabbit]

and Denver traded for Sauerbrun too, so guess Wabbit will have to re-do his list.

BFD.

You're right of course.

I could argue the technicality that he was ABOUT to become a FA, and a 7th round draft choice is essentially a 'gimme', but neither entered my thinking, and he was, in fact, traded.

Regardless, I think Sauerbrun, Brown & Alexander remain the 3 most important pick-ups

As for FA's only...I'll Take Courtney Brown, Alexander & college FA Brandon Browner

Satisfys the criteria I guess

[MajikMan7]

Best offseason acquisition *****Gerard Warren*****

[-Slap-]

and Denver traded for Sauerbrun too, so guess Wabbit will have to re-do his list.

BFD.
I guess he should.

Different words convey different meanings. They've been doing it that way since the beginning of spoken communication. Sorry if that presents a hardship for anybody.

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

I would have Clement on my list. Need that OL depth.

[Play2win]

I guess he should.

Different words convey different meanings. They've been doing it that way since the beginning of spoken communication. Sorry if that presents a hardship for anybody.
Words are just Symbols for Concepts, and (usually) there's alot lost in translation...

[Arkie]

Ian Gold is obviously our key aquisition of the offseason. Since we are talking about the best "signing", Gold is probably the worse value, and Jerry Rice is the best value.

[Kaylore]

Technically, we also traded for Sauerbrun. As I remember, a 7th rounder and, drum roll please, Baker.
Or as Woody Paige put it, A bag of marbles and a Baby Ruth. ROFL!

[minibronco]

1. Jerry Rice
2. Todd Sauerbrun
3. Gerard Warren

[MajikMan7]

I would have Clement on my list. Need that OL depth.

Thats why I have him 3rd on my list.

[DBroncos4life]

As much as it pains me to say it Gold has to be the best pick up for us. Was he the best LB out there at the time??? Was he worth the money, NO but think of it like this. Gold will be amoung the top in tackles for us because of the position he plays and the freedom he has. Now there is no doubt in my mind that Williams will be ten times the player at strong side then Spragan was so the improvement is there. Brown will be second on my list based on the fact that it said FA pick up. If he is healthy we found another player for the outside to rush the QB. Burns is my third choice. If helps the SP Teams its all worth it. The best MOVE of the offseason was finding a way to keep Pryce though.

[SoCalBronco]

As much as it pains me to say it Gold has to be the best pick up for us.
Dont tell me youve gone over to the dark side, too DB.

Was he the best LB out there at the time??? Was he worth the money, NO but think of it like this. Gold will be amoung the top in tackles for us because of the position he plays and the freedom he has.
So? What is the special benefit to us of this over what we had previously. How is it relevant that we are just switching up who ends up with more tackles? What about that justifies anything remotely near his signing bonus? I dont see how this is relevant.

Now there is no doubt in my mind that Williams will be ten times the player at strong side then Spragan was so the improvement is there.

Donnie was a very smart and heady player although he wasnt much of an athlete. I think DJ because of his great athleticism and because Coyer is going to make Denver's Sam different through scheme than the normal Sam, he will still be good but so far he says himself it is a hard adjustment for him after playing Will for his whole life. Its really grossly negligent when you think about it because he says himself the light was really starting to turn on during the second half of last year for him after many analysts waited for four years up till that point to see him start to fully realize his potential. And we move him then? Yeah he is an improvement over Spragan, but thats not the question. The question is, does DJs improvement over Spragan enough to make up for not only the reduction from what Gold is going to be to what DJ would have been in year 2, plus Ian's salary? No Way. Not even the biggest Gold homer can reasonably say the answer to this question even might be yes.


Brown will be second on my list based on the fact that it said FA pick up. If he is healthy we found another player for the outside to rush the QB.

If Brown can stay healthy he will be great. We are in agreement here, although i really like Warren too even though the precise question here was FA acquisition sas you point out.
Burns is my third choice. If helps the SP Teams its all worth it. The best MOVE of the offseason was finding a way to keep Pryce though.

Burns will be a good addition for ST but i would not put him in the top three. Trevor coming back was key as well given our already crappy line plus the loss of your boy Reggie.

[TheReverend]

Burns will be a good addition for ST but i would not put him in the top three. Trevor coming back was key as well given our already crappy line plus the loss of your boy Reggie.

Gotta disagree on Gold again. DJ moving to strong side will be fine. OLB is OLB, now hes just got someone else in his face, but hes a big boy. It maximizes talent this way. Then there's your signing bonus and salary argument. Yes we paid huge, but look at what we were able to do with the room we did have, so its okay this year. "What about next year?" you say? No more dead money next year.

[SoCalBronco]

Gotta disagree on Gold again. DJ moving to strong side will be fine. OLB is OLB, now hes just got someone else in his face, but hes a big boy. It maximizes talent this way. Then there's your signing bonus and salary argument. Yes we paid huge, but look at what we were able to do with the room we did have, so its okay this year. "What about next year?" you say? No more dead money next year.

With Ian's 8.5 million bonus, we could have gotten a guy like Okeafor plus a guard like DeMulling. Or we could have used that bonus by itself to pay for a guy like Pat Williams, who got just a little more in bonus from Minnesota. Or maybe one of Okeafor/DeMulling plus Darren Sharper. Really the combinations are endless. And we would have been fine at LB, better than what we are at now actually. We could have lined it up like this, either:
WLB Williams
MLB Wilson
SLB Sykes- who was pretty damn good in 03 and was set as the starter before he got hurt in the preseason. Plus he is playing for peanuts and this is the last year of his deal so we could see what we have in him.

Or
WLB Williams
MLB Pierce- finally we could get some use out of our 2nd round pick. Our Run Defense in the middle would improve even more with that thumper in there.
SLB- Wilson

Both units would be more effective than what we have right now with DJ at a new position that he HATES and does not maximize his strengths, although as i said, i laud Coyer for trying to scheme away some of the trash a normal SLB faces in our 2005 defensive scheme, plus we wouldnt have to spend even an extra dime to put together either of these units.

[DBroncos4life]

Burns will be a good addition for ST but i would not put him in the top three. Trevor coming back was key as well given our already crappy line plus the loss of your boy Reggie.



I wouldn't call it the "darkside" because Im not thrilled with the move but I do know that it makes the team better. Gold gives us more of a passrush as well as other things he does. No he isn't worth the money but what can you do? I think Williams will be fine. He might even shock you SoCal and become what Peterson is to the 49ers. I rank Burns in my top 3 because of what he does in the locker room and to the Sp Teams. They sucked so bad and I know that he will help make them better. I never want to see Hall running for a td against us again and Burns and S'Burn should help that in a huge way. Besides keeping Pryce the Warren move was huge. If he does what I think he can with our inside rush we will be a good team up front. We need him to push the pocket outside to the ends something that we haven't had for years. Anyways I think that Gold will produce the most ON the field so thats why he gets my number one spot.

[baja]

The thing about Gold that has me taking a wait and see attitude is the fact that last year we were trying to sign Gold <b> while we were on the clock </b> with the DJ pick and this year Gold was a free agent all of one day when we signed him to his big contract, now this tells me a very sharp front office wanted him real bad for two years now. Guess I;m one of those silly fans that believes Shanny and co. really do have a plan and it involves Gold in a big way.

[MajikMan7]

The best MOVE of the offseason was finding a way to keep Pryce though.

I gotta agree with you there, Pryce got into the best shape of his career last offseason and we really never got to see that pay off but this season we will, I can't wait!

[TheReverend]

With Ian's 8.5 million bonus, we could have gotten a guy like Okeafor plus a guard like DeMulling. Or we could have used that bonus by itself to pay for a guy like Pat Williams, who got just a little more in bonus from Minnesota. Or maybe one of Okeafor/DeMulling plus Darren Sharper. Really the combinations are endless. And we would have been fine at LB, better than what we are at now actually. We could have lined it up like this, either:
WLB Williams
MLB Wilson
SLB Sykes- who was pretty damn good in 03 and was set as the starter before he got hurt in the preseason. Plus he is playing for peanuts and this is the last year of his deal so we could see what we have in him.

Or
WLB Williams
MLB Pierce- finally we could get some use out of our 2nd round pick. Our Run Defense in the middle would improve even more with that thumper in there.
SLB- Wilson

Both units would be more effective than what we have right now with DJ at a new position that he HATES and does not maximize his strengths, although as i said, i laud Coyer for trying to scheme away some of the trash a normal SLB faces in our 2005 defensive scheme, plus we wouldnt have to spend even an extra dime to put together either of these units.

Pat Williams WOULD have been nice, huh? Him and Warren at the middle...

Chike Im glad went to AZ. Had we signed him I think we wouldve seen a premature release of Pryce or trade for a 7th. I think Pryce reminds us all or his determination this season. Now we have Pryce and the GREAT Courtney Brown... cant argue with those ends.

I wasnt impressed with the FA S market... I wasnt too impressed with DeMulling either. Sharper and Lynch at S? I hope we have a decent contract with Ben Gay.

We overpaid. But hes good. Thats why we got a 3rd rd compensatory pick after all...

[baja]

Look at it this way we got Gold and Clarret for the price of a 2004 Gold contract

[SoCalBronco]

Pat Williams WOULD have been nice, huh? Him and Warren at the middle...

Chike Im glad went to AZ. Had we signed him I think we wouldve seen a premature release of Pryce or trade for a 7th. I think Pryce reminds us all or his determination this season. Now we have Pryce and the GREAT Courtney Brown... cant argue with those ends.

I wasnt impressed with the FA S market... I wasnt too impressed with DeMulling either. Sharper and Lynch at S? I hope we have a decent contract with Ben Gay.

We overpaid. But hes good. Thats why we got a 3rd rd compensatory pick after all...

I think we are going to get rid of Pryce next year one way or another. Herc says its imperative for the Broncos future cap health that Pryce is cleared off the books. According to Herc, his base salary figures for the next three years are a huge financial albatross around our necks. And if he plays well there is no way that Trevor is going to agree to a pay cut or even a restructure. Basically, if Trevor is the old Trevor, Shanny is again going to try and deal him, this time he will feel very confident (and not just the BS Sundquist in front of the public "confidence we will get whatever we want" garbage) that he will get good compensation because, if he rebounds, the injury issue is gone (although the age issue is still there). If he is just okay, we can try initially to force another pay cut down his throat, but a pay cut that is one that we estimate is just right above what Trevor would get on the market. There is danger ofcourse in estimating what exactly will be the market for an okay 31 yr. old DE, especially when it appears we totally underestimated the market prices for the guys we wanted to go after this year at the outset of FA sending us reeling to reconfigure the "plan" according to Heav. If Trevor rejects that, than we again look for the trade, still likely getting some guaranteed value (prolly mid round) because he has shown the injury isnt a big deal and he is still "okay". If he is average or below and there are no takers, Shanahan will likely reason, correctly that putting him out on the open market is an acceptable risk since he has shown he isnt the same and is 31 so letting him go to a rival at that level of play is worth it in exchange for getting that financial albatross off our necks.

[TheReverend]

I think we are going to get rid of Pryce next year one way or another. Herc says its imperative for the Broncos future cap health that Pryce is cleared off the books. According to Herc, his base salary figures for the next three years are a huge financial albatross around our necks. And if he plays well there is no way that Trevor is going to agree to a pay cut or even a restructure. Basically, if Trevor is the old Trevor, Shanny is again going to try and deal him, this time he will feel very confident (and not just the BS Sundquist in front of the public "confidence we will get whatever we want" garbage) that he will get good compensation because, if he rebounds, the injury issue is gone (although the age issue is still there). If he is just okay, we can try initially to force another pay cut down his throat, but a pay cut that is one that we estimate is just right above what Trevor would get on the market. There is danger ofcourse in estimating what exactly will be the market for an okay 31 yr. old DE, especially when it appears we totally underestimated the market prices for the guys we wanted to go after this year at the outset of FA sending us reeling to reconfigure the "plan" according to Heav. If Trevor rejects that, than we again look for the trade, still likely getting some guaranteed value (prolly mid round) because he has shown the injury isnt a big deal and he is still "okay". If he is average or below and there are no takers, Shanahan will likely reason, correctly that putting him out on the open market is an acceptable risk since he has shown he isnt the same and is 31 so letting him go to a rival at that level of play is worth it in exchange for getting that financial albatross off our necks.


Getting rid of pryce is a probable option. Call me a bleeding heart, but I think he showed us loyalty this year (Ive heard all the business aspects of it), and as much of a business as this is, I dont think that will be forgotten so quickly. I think he will take his age and performance into consideration and I do think he and the FO will be willing to create a contract equivalent to his performance.

He'll take the pay cut... he makes enough in his rap career...

Even he is released we can extend C. Brown...

[Mr. Trout]

With Ian's 8.5 million bonus, we could have gotten a guy like Okeafor plus a guard like DeMulling. Or we could have used that bonus by itself to pay for a guy like Pat Williams, who got just a little more in bonus from Minnesota. Or maybe one of Okeafor/DeMulling plus Darren Sharper. Really the combinations are endless. And we would have been fine at LB, better than what we are at now actually. We could have lined it up like this, either:
WLB Williams
MLB Wilson
SLB Sykes- who was pretty damn good in 03 and was set as the starter before he got hurt in the preseason. Plus he is playing for peanuts and this is the last year of his deal so we could see what we have in him.

Or
WLB Williams
MLB Pierce- finally we could get some use out of our 2nd round pick. Our Run Defense in the middle would improve even more with that thumper in there.
SLB- Wilson

Both units would be more effective than what we have right now with DJ at a new position that he HATES and does not maximize his strengths, although as i said, i laud Coyer for trying to scheme away some of the trash a normal SLB faces in our 2005 defensive scheme, plus we wouldnt have to spend even an extra dime to put together either of these units.



I was really starting to like the idea of puttin Wilson at Strongside linebacker. The advocates of it said it would prolong Big Al's career. I was also hopin Pierce could sniff the field.

[SoCalBronco]

Getting rid of pryce is a probable option. Call me a bleeding heart, but I think he showed us loyalty this year (Ive heard all the business aspects of it), and as much of a business as this is, I dont think that will be forgotten so quickly. I think he will take his age and performance into consideration and I do think he and the FO will be willing to create a contract equivalent to his performance.

He'll take the pay cut... he makes enough in his rap career...

Even he is released we can extend C. Brown...

Im not so sure Trevor is as kind hearted regarding what he would do for the organization as you say, but that would be great if he did that for us. Trevor did alot of damage to our initial FA "plan" this year refusing to lift even a finger re: restructuring or even trying to help the team find a taker for him according to Wabbit until the last minute when he finally realized the obvious i.e. the pay cut he would recieve from denver, while substantial, would still leave him with a guaranteed base salary far higher than what another team would give him on the open market. By the time he understood/accepted that, the talent market was dry. Had we had that extra 2.1 million or 2.6 million or whatever it was from the outset we could have made more waves in FA and really added a good player. As a result we were hamstrung as key target after key target went to another team and we had to scramble to make the best of it at the end squeezing out every possible restructure from the real class guys on the ball club along with a couple draft picks to help us at least put some new bodies in our need positions. Even though he finally relented, he did alot of damage to the team in its efforts to get better. So i cannot say with any degree of confidence that next year he would be willing to help us out again, especially if he has a good year.

[DB-Freak]

So much damn hope on Brown.

Why?

It's so damn confusing. Not only is the guy going to be injured, he just isn't good anymore.

[SoCalBronco]

The thing about Gold that has me taking a wait and see attitude is the fact that last year we were trying to sign Gold <b> while we were on the clock </b> with the DJ pick and this year Gold was a free agent all of one day when we signed him to his big contract, now this tells me a very sharp front office wanted him real bad for two years now. Guess I;m one of those silly fans that believes Shanny and co. really do have a plan and it involves Gold in a big way.

These are good points baja, but remember, at the same time, Shanahan has always had these kind of irrational hard ons for certain players as well. That could be an alternate explanation.

[TheReverend]

Im not so sure Trevor is as kind hearted regarding what he would do for the organization as you say, but that would be great if he did that for us. Trevor did alot of damage to our initial FA "plan" this year refusing to lift even a finger re: restructuring or even trying to help the team find a taker for him according to Wabbit until the last minute when he finally realized the obvious i.e. the pay cut he would recieve from denver, while substantial, would still leave him with a guaranteed base salary far higher than what another team would give him on the open market. By the time he understood/accepted that, the talent market was dry. Had we had that extra 2.1 million or 2.6 million or whatever it was from the outset we could have made more waves in FA and really added a good player. As a result we were hamstrung as key target after key target went to another team and we had to scramble to make the best of it at the end squeezing out every possible restructure from the real class guys on the ball club along with a couple draft picks to help us at least put some new bodies in our need positions. Even though he finally relented, he did alot of damage to the team in its efforts to get better. So i cannot say with any degree of confidence that next year he would be willing to help us out again, especially if he has a good year.


All insubstantial. It comes from Wabbit, yes, but he ended up being completely wrong about the entire Pryce situation (Im hoping hes similarly wrong about the Middlebrooks situation, but thats a diff story). Remember the trade block caught Pryce by surprise and hes quoted with "no one has contacted me about restructuring"... he seemed like a class act when he showed up to off season work outs and was pro active about taking a pay cut. Thats reliable... the anti-Trevor rumors are hearsay. We'll find out soon enough, for sure.

[SoCalBronco]

All insubstantial. It comes from Wabbit, yes, but he ended up being completely wrong about the entire Pryce situation (Im hoping hes similarly wrong about the Middlebrooks situation, but thats a diff story). Remember the trade block caught Pryce by surprise and hes quoted with "no one has contacted me about restructuring"... he seemed like a class act when he showed up to off season work outs and was pro active about taking a pay cut. Thats reliable... the anti-Trevor rumors are hearsay. We'll find out soon enough, for sure.

I do not believe Wabbit was wrong on Pryce at all. Literally everyone, from Patrick Saunders to Burger Bill to the RMN guys, to even Shanny and Sundy were saying Trevor's time here is over. All of these people werent wrong. Trevor was unwilling to do anything and trying to force Denver's hand. It all changed at the last second. Up until 2 or 3 days before Trevor and the ball club agreed on a compromise, literally everyone was using absolute, completely unqualified language on the issue of whether it was a sure bet that Pryce was leaving. Then 3 days before the agreement, Sundquist said there is a small possibility he could come back but its still very likely he is gone (DPO article) than a day later, Shanny said its 50-50, so it seems pretty clear that everyone in the know was telling it like it was until things changed at the last second when Trevor finally realized the economics of the situation.

[DB-Freak]

Paycut........ big deal.

If you look at Pryce's cap numbers over the next few years, you'll realize why we wanted to trade him.

[TheReverend]

If youre all so sold at Al playing Sam why not have DJ play middle... hed look real good there.

[TheReverend]

As for Pryce, I think none of us know even 25% of the situation so pointing fingers should be out of the question. I just think he seems reasonable enough to take further pay cuts in the future.

[DB-Freak]

As for Pryce, I think none of us know even 25% of the situation so pointing fingers should be out of the question. I just think he seems reasonable enough to take further pay cuts in the future.

He would have restructured then IMO.

But that means nothing. I doubt about Pryce's future with the Broncos.

[TheReverend]

He would have restructured then IMO.

But that means nothing. I doubt about Pryce's future with the Broncos.

Restructuring pushes money back to a later date. He did MUCH MORE than restructure... he took a straight up pay cut.

[SoCalBronco]

If youre all so sold at Al playing Sam why not have DJ play middle... hed look real good there.

Well, he has never played Middle before. He is an ideal Will. The idea with Wilson at Sam was that we wanted to get Pierce on the field. He is pretty good against the run but poor against the pass and has really struggled at Sam trying to cover TEs and such. He has said many times he wants to be and is a Mike. I think in one of Coyer's Q and As, last year i believe, one of his responses to a question actually went along the lines of "Terry has to stop thinking of Mike, he is a Sam and has to play that etc". We cannot put a square peg into a round hole, or as Slappy much more colorfully put it "Making Roseanne Barr lose 100 pounds doesnt make her a model", in reference to the team's effort to get Terry down to 237 from 251 to help him become a better Sam. He is a natural 2 down run stuffing MLB, nothing more nothing else. There is no versatility. He can be very good at MLB in non obvious passing situations. But now we are in a bind. I realize Denver needed insurance since negotiations with Norm Nixon, Al's agent were not going well in the spring of 2003, the final year of his rookie contract. But perhaps it would have been more wise for Denver to wait till 2004. If negotiations were still going poorly during Jan-Mar of 2004, we could have franchised tagged him, and then drafted a Mike. That would ensure the rookie would have a year to learn on the bench before he took over. We did not necessarily have to make the choice in 2003.

[DB-Freak]

Restructuring pushes money back to a later date. He did MUCH MORE than restructure... he took a straight up pay cut.
For one year.

[kappys]

Pryce took a pay cut because he realized that he would make more money that way then he would get with his outright release on the open market. So he stayed. Don't make the mistake of thinking Pryce has a bleeding heart for the Broncos, his hold out proves that he is willing to play hardball.

The respectable thing about Pryce, however, is that he understands the business of football. During his holdout I didn't hear him whining about getting disrespected by the Broncos, critisizing the team, etc. etc. Once again this offseason he didn't complain about a lack of respect or anything. He didn't hold any perceived slight against the Broncos when we did sign him, or when he agreed to a paycut.

[Mediator12]

With Ian's 8.5 million bonus, we could have gotten a guy like Okeafor plus a guard like DeMulling. Or we could have used that bonus by itself to pay for a guy like Pat Williams, who got just a little more in bonus from Minnesota. Or maybe one of Okeafor/DeMulling plus Darren Sharper. Really the combinations are endless. And we would have been fine at LB, better than what we are at now actually. We could have lined it up like this, either:
WLB Williams
MLB Wilson
SLB Sykes- who was pretty damn good in 03 and was set as the starter before he got hurt in the preseason. Plus he is playing for peanuts and this is the last year of his deal so we could see what we have in him.

Or
WLB Williams
MLB Pierce- finally we could get some use out of our 2nd round pick. Our Run Defense in the middle would improve even more with that thumper in there.
SLB- Wilson

Both units would be more effective than what we have right now with DJ at a new position that he HATES and does not maximize his strengths, although as i said, i laud Coyer for trying to scheme away some of the trash a normal SLB faces in our 2005 defensive scheme, plus we wouldnt have to spend even an extra dime to put together either of these units.


Socal, very rarely do we disagree on things but here is one of those times.

1. Spragan kept his starting job last year after Sykes injury healed in game two. If Sykes was the future he would have played last year over Donnie.

2. Homer logic inconsistency: Move a probowl caliber MLB in Wilson to Sam a position he has never played so that a promising rookie can remain at Will and an unproven MLB can start and call the plays. Seriously dude, moving TWO STARTING POSITIONS just so DJ can stay on the WILL. You are smarter than that.

3. Those two options may or may not strengthen the run "D" but would invariably hurt the pass rush and pass coverage over last year. Sykes is a Sam but not as good in coverage as DJ. Ian is better in coverage than DJ and is more proven as a blitzer in the NFL and particularly for Coyer.

With 55% of the plays last year in the nickel set it will be an interesting camp Battle to see if DJ or IAN wins the second Nickel LB in the nickel base. Also, it might be even more interesting to see Coyer with the 3-4 and 3-3-5 sets in passing downs with all these guys on the field.

4. Finally, there are three playmakers on the field now at LB instead of two from last year. For all of the LB's success last year Spragan and DJ combined for 0 INT's and two sacks. Gold's last full year here he had 6.5 sacks and he is one of the last three players to have an INT for a TD.

Yes, Ian is not prototypical in size for a LB. But there are a ton of successful NFL players that do not fit the mold. In fact, most of the same people who criticize Gold are the same ones who criticize the "reaches" of the physically gifted players who are not "ballers". Ian has skills that fit this style of Defense and therefore is a big key to unleashing better things and schemes this year.

If your argument is opportunity cost of his signing bonus, I understand that argument. If it is he forces a player to learn a new position, I understand that too. The reality is that there are now three LB's with ability to execute the current DC's scheme the way he envisioned it. No more excuses from the LB's.

If the DL improves a little, then this front seven has the ability to be stifling. If the secondary can be a little more consistent this year, then the whole "D" will be capable of winning games for this team.

[Mediator12]

These are good points baja, but remember, at the same time, Shanahan has always had these kind of irrational hard ons for certain players as well. That could be an alternate explanation.

For once, this one does not come from Shanahan Socal. It is from Coyer.

[TheReverend]

With the DL improvements we'll have a shutdown secondary... god bless Courtney Brown

[Odysseus]

I think it will be obvious later in the season which of our pickups makes the most impact. I think Saurbrun is a great pickup. I like the Browncos move. (insert a name) I think Courtney, if healthy, will make his biggest impact later in the season.

I am glad Coyer got Ian Gold back. Let's see what he can do with him.

I like the Jerry Rice pickup.

This will always be known as the off season dominated by "The Plan". I like the moves. I am eager to see some football and see what we really have.

[DBroncos4life]

Socal, very rarely do we disagree on things but here is one of those times.

1. Spragan kept his starting job last year after Sykes injury healed in game two. If Sykes was the future he would have played last year over Donnie.

2. Homer logic inconsistency: Move a probowl caliber MLB in Wilson to Sam a position he has never played so that a promising rookie can remain at Will and an unproven MLB can start and call the plays. Seriously dude, moving TWO STARTING POSITIONS just so DJ can stay on the WILL. You are smarter than that.

3. Those two options may or may not strengthen the run "D" but would invariably hurt the pass rush and pass coverage over last year. Sykes is a Sam but not as good in coverage as DJ. Ian is better in coverage than DJ and is more proven as a blitzer in the NFL and particularly for Coyer.

With 55% of the plays last year in the nickel set it will be an interesting camp Battle to see if DJ or IAN wins the second Nickel LB in the nickel base. Also, it might be even more interesting to see Coyer with the 3-4 and 3-3-5 sets in passing downs with all these guys on the field.

4. Finally, there are three playmakers on the field now at LB instead of two from last year. For all of the LB's success last year Spragan and DJ combined for 0 INT's and two sacks. Gold's last full year here he had 6.5 sacks and he is one of the last three players to have an INT for a TD.

Yes, Ian is not prototypical in size for a LB. But there are a ton of successful NFL players that do not fit the mold. In fact, most of the same people who criticize Gold are the same ones who criticize the "reaches" of the physically gifted players who are not "ballers". Ian has skills that fit this style of Defense and therefore is a big key to unleashing better things and schemes this year.

If your argument is opportunity cost of his signing bonus, I understand that argument. If it is he forces a player to learn a new position, I understand that too. The reality is that there are now three LB's with ability to execute the current DC's scheme the way he envisioned it. No more excuses from the LB's.

If the DL improves a little, then this front seven has the ability to be stifling. If the secondary can be a little more consistent this year, then the whole "D" will be capable of winning games for this team.



I agree and thats why I listed Gold as number one. I know that he can play and will play. There is no hoping he stays healthy like Brown. Gold does make the front 7 better even if the others don't pan out. DJ will be fine at Sam for now and if he can shut down TE's by himself then we don't need to waste a DB on them as well which means we can bring the heat from different positions as well.

[Ballhawk]

Good post Med!

I think that signing bonuses have got completely out of hand, but Shanny did tell Gold they would take care of him after the injury. Looks like they could not agree on what that meant last year, but I do not think 8.5 mil is completely out of line.

I do like the message it sends to other players on their rookie deals. Shanny may take a hard line with redoing the rookie contracts, but looking at Wilson's and Gold's Deal shows that the FO does take care of their players.

[baja]

Good post Med!

I think that signing bonuses have got completely out of hand, but Shanny did tell Gold they would take care of him after the injury. Looks like they could not agree on what that meant last year, but I do not think 8.5 mil is completely out of line.

I do like the message it sends to other players on their rookie deals. Shanny may take a hard line with redoing the rookie contracts, but looking at Wilson's and Gold's Deal shows that the FO does take care of their players.


Good point and just another reason why players want to play for Shanahan

[Garcia Bronco]

Brown
Gold
Burns

[FADERPROOF]

2. Homer logic inconsistency: Move a probowl caliber MLB in Wilson to Sam a position he has never played so that a promising rookie can remain at Will and an unproven MLB can start and call the plays. Seriously dude, moving TWO STARTING POSITIONS just so DJ can stay on the WILL. You are smarter than that.



Just to clerify, Al Wilson played SLB at the University of Tennessee for his 4 years in college. It wasn't until Denver drafted him that he made the fulltime switch to MLB.

[Mediator12]

Just to clerify, Al Wilson played SLB at the University of Tennessee for his 4 years in college. It wasn't until Denver drafted him that he made the fulltime switch to MLB.

Two years as a LSLB at Ten and MLB his Senior year with the National Championship. To clarify further, never played Sam in the NFL. Is that better?

[Rascal]

Socal, very rarely do we disagree on things but here is one of those times.

1. Spragan kept his starting job last year after Sykes injury healed in game two. If Sykes was the future he would have played last year over Donnie.

2. Homer logic inconsistency: Move a probowl caliber MLB in Wilson to Sam a position he has never played so that a promising rookie can remain at Will and an unproven MLB can start and call the plays. Seriously dude, moving TWO STARTING POSITIONS just so DJ can stay on the WILL. You are smarter than that.

3. Those two options may or may not strengthen the run "D" but would invariably hurt the pass rush and pass coverage over last year. Sykes is a Sam but not as good in coverage as DJ. Ian is better in coverage than DJ and is more proven as a blitzer in the NFL and particularly for Coyer.

With 55% of the plays last year in the nickel set it will be an interesting camp Battle to see if DJ or IAN wins the second Nickel LB in the nickel base. Also, it might be even more interesting to see Coyer with the 3-4 and 3-3-5 sets in passing downs with all these guys on the field.

4. Finally, there are three playmakers on the field now at LB instead of two from last year. For all of the LB's success last year Spragan and DJ combined for 0 INT's and two sacks. Gold's last full year here he had 6.5 sacks and he is one of the last three players to have an INT for a TD.

Yes, Ian is not prototypical in size for a LB. But there are a ton of successful NFL players that do not fit the mold. In fact, most of the same people who criticize Gold are the same ones who criticize the "reaches" of the physically gifted players who are not "ballers". Ian has skills that fit this style of Defense and therefore is a big key to unleashing better things and schemes this year.

If your argument is opportunity cost of his signing bonus, I understand that argument. If it is he forces a player to learn a new position, I understand that too. The reality is that there are now three LB's with ability to execute the current DC's scheme the way he envisioned it. No more excuses from the LB's.

If the DL improves a little, then this front seven has the ability to be stifling. If the secondary can be a little more consistent this year, then the whole "D" will be capable of winning games for this team.


Your point #2 has no merit because Wilson played SLB at Tennessee. DJ played weakside at Florida, and Pierce played middle at K-state. That is what our linebacker core should look like. If we had done that, and saved a butt load of money, we could have gone after Sharper, Demulling, Okeafor, etc as Socal mentioned. Going after Gold and paying him what we did is just plain ludicrousy.

Our defense would have been just as good (if not better had we gotten Sharper and Okeafor) while our offensive line would have been a lot better with the addition of Demulling who even publically stated he wanted to come here. Shanny and Coyer screwed the pouch on this big time. We overpaid for a midget LB and it cost us the opportunity to improve in other areas where we had bigger voids...plain and simple.

There were no excuses for the LB's to begin with...the problem has always been the d-line.

[FADERPROOF]

Two years as a LSLB at Ten and MLB his Senior year with the National Championship. To clarify further, never played Sam in the NFL. Is that better?

Yes, because that would be correct then.

Personally, I think he would be a better OLB than a MLB, and he's a great MLB. He probably would've been a top 20 pick had he stayed at OLB, but concerns of his height as a MLB dropped him a bit(luckily for us.)

[Mediator12]

Your point #2 has no merit because Wilson played SLB at Tennessee. DJ played weakside at Florida, and Pierce played middle at K-state. That is what our linebacker core should look like. If we had done that, and saved a butt load of money, we could have gone after Sharper, Demulling, Okeafor, etc as Socal mentioned. Going after Gold and paying him what we did is just plain ludicrousy.

Our defense would have been just as good (if not better had we gotten Sharper and Okeafor) while our offensive line would have been a lot better with the addition of Demulling who even publically stated he wanted to come here. Shanny and Coyer screwed the pouch on this big time. We overpaid for a midget LB and it cost us the opportunity to improve in other areas where we had bigger voids...plain and simple.

There were no excuses for the LB's to begin with...the problem has always been the d-line.

Try and read it again without the Gold Bias.

Either solution puts less talented players on the field AND requires POSITION SWITCHES. The whole DJ has to switch position arguments are therefore null and void. I like DJ alot , but to form a defense around a talented first year rookie at the expense of the defense as a whole is shortsighted and tantamount to career suicide.

Plus, DJ is not getting benched by this pickup. He is still on the field. Coyer has always put the best players in the right situation to succeed. He is no BS. If he thought DJ could not handle this, I GUARANTEE it would not be happening.

Personally, I wanted Okeafor and Demulling as well. However, it was not feasable after the Trevor situation imploded. Gold's signing bonus was high to some here because of their feelings toward Gold personally. However, it has not been criticized by many around the league.

Like I said, I understand Opportunity Cost of signing as an excuse. No team can ever address its needs perfectly. They have to pick their poison. I am just trying to leave my feelings for Gold out of the rationale for signing him.

BTW, I am not a fan of Ian off the field, just what he can contribute on it.

[Rascal]

Try and read it again without the Gold Bias.

Either solution puts less talented players on the field AND requires POSITION SWITCHES. The whole DJ has to switch position arguments are therefore null and void. I like DJ alot , but to form a defense around a talented first year rookie at the expense of the defense as a whole is shortsighted and tantamount to career suicide.

Plus, DJ is not getting benched by this pickup. He is still on the field. Coyer has always put the best players in the right situation to succeed. He is no BS. If he thought DJ could not handle this, I GUARANTEE it would not be happening.

Personally, I wanted Okeafor and Demulling as well. However, it was not feasable after the Trevor situation imploded. Gold's signing bonus was high to some here because of their feelings toward Gold personally. However, it has not been criticized by many around the league.

Like I said, I understand Opportunity Cost of signing as an excuse. No team can ever address its needs perfectly. They have to pick their poison. I am just trying to leave my feelings for Gold out of the rationale for signing him.

BTW, I am not a fan of Ian off the field, just what he can contribute on it.

I didn't read it with any Gold biassness. Try looking at yourself without any bias towards Coyer.

How would anybody switch positions in my example or be of less talent? Wilson will play the position he played in college (SLB), DJ stays at his position (WLB) and Pierce plays the position he has always played (MLB). How is that less talented when you add in the fact we could have Sharper instead of Fergy as a true free safety and an upgrade with Okeafor. Your argument is actually null and void on this not ours.

Gold is not a better upgrade then Pierce, Sharper, and possibly Okeafor. Plus we would extend the playing life of Wilson by moving him to SLB. It's a win win situation.

I could care less about their personality off the field as long as they contribute and aren't a cancer to the team. I don't care how Gold left, I'm looking it at based on the fact we overpaid for a small LB when we had more then capable players available to fill that minor problem and solve our bigger problems (safety, d-line, guard, etc). Instead we decided to pay 8.5 million to a small WLB and not answer the needs at safety and guard, and hope to God that Ekuban and Brown can stay healthy and man the other defensive end position.

I would take DJ, Pierce, Wilson in addition to Sharper and Demulling every day of the week instead of Gold, Wilson, DJ with Fergy and Cooper Carlisle.

[DBroncos4life]

I didn't read it with any Gold biassness. Try looking at yourself without any bias towards Coyer.

How would anybody switch positions in my example or be of less talent? Wilson will play the position he played in college (SLB), DJ stays at his position (WLB) and Pierce plays the position he has always played (MLB). How is that less talented when you add in the fact we could have Sharper instead of Fergy as a true free safety and an upgrade with Okeafor. Your argument is actually null and void on this not ours.

Gold is not a better upgrade then Pierce, Sharper, and possibly Okeafor. Plus we would extend the playing life of Wilson by moving him to SLB. It's a win win situation.

I could care less about their personality off the field as long as they contribute and aren't a cancer to the team. I don't care how Gold left, I'm looking it at based on the fact we overpaid for a small LB when we had more then capable players available to fill that minor problem and solve our bigger problems (safety, d-line, guard, etc). Instead we decided to pay 8.5 million to a small WLB and not answer the needs at safety and guard, and hope to God that Ekuban and Brown can stay healthy and man the other defensive end position.

I would take DJ, Pierce, Wilson in addition to Sharper and Demulling every day of the week instead of Gold, Wilson, DJ with Fergy and Cooper Carlisle.



Rascal there is no proof that we would have signed anyone of those guys if we didnt sign Gold. Sure the odds are better but nothing is 100% there.

[kappys]

-SLAP- is the one who is on the ball here. Peter Boulware will be had at a quarter of the price Gold is getting, and is about twice he player. Getting Peter would have allowed us to keep Wilson and Dj as is, and bring in an asbolute terror at SLB to rush the passer. Gold for his speed, is basically decent only in coverage, and is not a good blitzer. Boulware has a great track record of getting at the QB, which despite the additions of the Browns D-line, it remains to be seen whether anyone is healthy enough to do. I don't deny that Gold is an oiverall upgrade, but he is a pricey one where the money could have been better spent elsewhere.

Also I think the Viks getting Sharper is a big FA move

[DBroncos4life]

In fact you can only take away 1.5 mill for signing Gold this year, well atleast thats what I understand. I don't know what Sharpers bonus was but he's making 900,000 as a base contract this year and Demulling is making a mill this year without any bonus factored in so really if we signed those two for that price we may have missed out on Brown and Rice.

[Rascal]

Demulling publically voiced his desire to come here. If we had the money I'd put it at about 80% that he would have come here. Sharper would have had the chance to play with a former coach, and unless their was some tension there, I would have given it about 75% of him coming. Instead we didn't even talk to them and decided to upgrade at LB where we didn't the upgrade (if it is one) and cost us the ability to solidify those other positions. By paying Gold that amount, we didn't even give ourselves the opportunity to have a chance at them.

[Rascal]

In fact you can only take away 1.5 mill for signing Gold this year, well atleast thats what I understand. I don't know what Sharpers bonus was but he's making 900,000 as a base contract this year and Demulling is making a mill this year without any bonus factored in so really if we signed those two for that price we may have missed out on Brown and Rice.

Gold's cap hit this year is more then 1.5. And as Slap pointed out we could have gotten Boulware for 1/2 of what Gold cost, kept DJ in WLB, and had easily the best LB core in the league.

[Rascal]

Gold is 1.9 mil this year, 2.2 mil next year, 3.6 mil, 4 mil, 4.7 mil, and 6 mil the following four years.

[Mediator12]

i'm typing one handed feeding the kid so bear with me please.

1. Boulware is a WSLB fellas. Hartwell And adalius thomas were SLB's.

2. Sharper was released 1+ months after Gold was signed.

3. Okeafor got more money to play for ARI.

4. No report out of Dove Valley stated any interest in DeMulling.

ps boulware was realeased two weeks ago as well. he and sharper were not gauratedd FA's or cap casualties.

[Atlas]

-SLAP- is the one who is on the ball here. Peter Boulware will be had at a quarter of the price Gold is getting, and is about twice he player.

From what I have heard Boulware has really went down hill. The Ravens already lost their best LB in FA so they had plenty incentive to keep Boulware but they passed on him. I'm anxious to see him play this year and see how much he has left in the tank.

[DBroncos4life]

Gold is 1.9 mil this year, 2.2 mil next year, 3.6 mil, 4 mil, 4.7 mil, and 6 mil the following four years.


HUH?

Player Profile
Gold, Ian
View Stats at Players Inc Site
Player Info
Draft Info

LB (#52)
Year: 2000

Denver Broncos
Round: 2

Highlands Ranch, CO
Position: 9

Salary History

2005 540000.00
2006 670000.00
2007 2300000.00
2008 2750000.00
2009 3400000.00
2010 4590000.00

From what I understood the bonus got bigger later. 1 mill this year, 1 mill next, and so on. The way you have it it doesn't add up right.

[Mediator12]

If anything Denver would have gone after Hartwell, not Boulware if they needed a new SLB.

[baja]

Where are all the people that usually scream <b> Injury risk, injury risk</b> when it comes to signing Boulware. This guy would have been heavily depended on to start and at present he is injured and could not play

[Mediator12]

Boulware was expendable with Suggs and Drafting Dan Cody. Adalius Thomas is the real deal too.

[wabbit]

All insubstantial. It comes from Wabbit, yes, but he ended up being completely wrong about the entire Pryce situation (Im hoping hes similarly wrong about the Middlebrooks situation, but thats a diff story). Remember the trade block caught Pryce by surprise and hes quoted with "no one has contacted me about restructuring"... he seemed like a class act when he showed up to off season work outs and was pro active about taking a pay cut. Thats reliable... the anti-Trevor rumors are hearsay. We'll find out soon enough, for sure.


What's the purpose of this?

I actually went back and looked through every post I made on the Pryce issue as it transpired &, as far as I can tell, nothing I said was incorrect at the time...nothing.

The Broncos did in fact have lengthy talks with Dallas about Pryce. Pryce & his agent did in fact do absolutely nothing to help facilitate a trade.

There was, in fact, considerable pressure to trade Pryce in February to free up cap space for FA's.

There were talks with everybody and anybody in the hope that something could get done prior to the draft...and barring that, perhaps on draft day itself.

I don't ask that anyone take anything I report as some kind of Gospel. I am a poster on a message board. Take it or leave it.

Truth is, I often add commentary & , yes, my very own opinion, and much of what I get when I'm NOT AT Bronco HQ is filtered through reporters or people that work there. I DO expect people who want to use me as some kind of sounding board for their own purposes, whatever they are...to get the facts right...and this guy couldn't bother.

I thank you for your defense SoCal, but you shouldn't have to...these kind of people have their own agenda.

Damn it's frustrating...and another reason to confine whatever we do here to opinion. I'll leave the reports for someone else.

[SoCalBronco]

What's the purpose of this?

I actually went back and looked through every post I made on the Pryce issue as it transpired &, as far as I can tell, nothing I said was incorrect at the time...nothing.

The Broncos did in fact have lengthy talks with Dallas about Pryce. Pryce & his agent did in fact do absolutely nothing to help facilitate a trade.

There was, in fact, considerable pressure to trade Pryce in February to free up cap space for FA's.

There were talks with everybody and anybody in the hope that something could get done prior to the draft...and barring that, perhaps on draft day itself.

I don't ask that anyone take anything I report as some kind of Gospel. I am a poster on a message board. Take it or leave it.

Truth is, I often add commentary & , yes, my very own opinion, and much of what I get when I'm NOT AT Bronco HQ is filtered through reporters or people that work there. I DO expect people who want to use me as some kind of sounding board for their own purposes, whatever they are...to get the facts right...and this guy couldn't bother.

I thank you for your defense SoCal, but you shouldn't have to...these kind of people have their own agenda.

Damn it's frustrating...and another reason to confine whatever we do here to opinion. I'll leave the reports for someone else.

Please do not end your reports, Wabbit. It is very much appreciated here and you are truly a great resource for us. I do not believe Reverend meant you any harm etc he just disagreed with the timeline and events some of us presented. He is a good guy, he means no harm. As i said earlier, you were right regarding Pryce. Everyone from Shanny to Sundy on down to the DPO and RMN guys were using absolute language regarding Pryce and the issue of whether he would stay or go until the last minute when Trevor got it through his thick skull that even with a pay cut he would make more in guaranteed salary than what he was likely to get on the market and the situation completely changed.

Thanks again for all of your great reports. They are very much appreciated and a real treat for all of us.

[Ray Finkle]

Please do not end your reports, Wabbit. It is very much appreciated here and you are truly a great resource for us. I do not believe Reverend meant you any harm etc he just disagreed with the timeline and events some of us presented. He is a good guy, he means no harm. As i said earlier, you were right regarding Pryce. Everyone from Shanny to Sundy on down to the DPO and RMN guys were using absolute language regarding Pryce and the issue of whether he would stay or go until the last minute when Trevor got it through his thick skull that even with a pay cut he would make more in guaranteed salary than what he was likely to get on the market and the situation completely changed.

Thanks again for all of your great reports. They are very much appreciated and a real treat for all of us.


I second what Socal has to say.....Wabbit, if you stop posting, Socal and I are going to drive to CO and pull a "Misery" like kidnapping on you and make you post....

[-Slap-]

Boulware could play DE or OLB. Until last season, he had only missed one game due to injury during his career. He passed his physical with flying colors. He's been to four Pro Bowls. He would have more hype attached to his name if Ray Ray didn't hog every camera in Ratimore.

Player Profile
Gold, Ian
View Stats at Players Inc Site
Player Info
Draft Info

LB (#52)
Year: 2000

Denver Broncos
Round: 2

Highlands Ranch, CO
Position: 9

Salary History

2005 540000.00
2006 670000.00
2007 2300000.00
2008 2750000.00
2009 3400000.00
2010 4590000.00

The good news is these numbers indicate we should only have to tolerate Ian's narrow ass in Denver for two seasons.

[broncohaven]

With Ian's 8.5 million bonus, we could have gotten a guy like Okeafor plus a guard like DeMulling. Or we could have used that bonus by itself to pay for a guy like Pat Williams, who got just a little more in bonus from Minnesota. Or maybe one of Okeafor/DeMulling plus Darren Sharper. Really the combinations are endless. And we would have been fine at LB, better than what we are at now actually. We could have lined it up like this, either:
WLB Williams
MLB Wilson
SLB Sykes- who was pretty damn good in 03 and was set as the starter before he got hurt in the preseason. Plus he is playing for peanuts and this is the last year of his deal so we could see what we have in him.

Or
WLB Williams
MLB Pierce- finally we could get some use out of our 2nd round pick. Our Run Defense in the middle would improve even more with that thumper in there.
SLB- Wilson

Both units would be more effective than what we have right now with DJ at a new position that he HATES and does not maximize his strengths, although as i said, i laud Coyer for trying to scheme away some of the trash a normal SLB faces in our 2005 defensive scheme, plus we wouldnt have to spend even an extra dime to put together either of these units.Assumptions run amok!

[Odysseus]

What's the purpose of this?

Damn it's frustrating...and another reason to confine whatever we do here to opinion. I'll leave the reports for someone else.

You really substantiate a lot of my posts. I'll say I hear some quacking and see some feathers. You say it smells like a duck and walks like a duck. It makes my life easier not having to validate everything. That's Wabbit's role in the Mane Universe and I am thankful that you are here.

:thumbs:

[Ninjafied]

What's the purpose of this?

Woh, hold up there a second. Let’s not do anything rash.
If a poll was thrown up today you’d defiantly be one of the most appreciated posters here. Your insight and contribution is very much appreciate by the vast majority of us. Its great to have the inside track that you provide.

And on a personal note, I didn’t spend all this time lurking and then finally take the step to sign up just to see you go.

[Play2win]

Please do not end your reports, Wabbit. It is very much appreciated here and you are truly a great resource for us. I do not believe Reverend meant you any harm etc he just disagreed with the timeline and events some of us presented. He is a good guy, he means no harm. As i said earlier, you were right regarding Pryce. Everyone from Shanny to Sundy on down to the DPO and RMN guys were using absolute language regarding Pryce and the issue of whether he would stay or go until the last minute when Trevor got it through his thick skull that even with a pay cut he would make more in guaranteed salary than what he was likely to get on the market and the situation completely changed.

Thanks again for all of your great reports. They are very much appreciated and a real treat for all of us.

All I know is that Wabbit adds as much to this board as anybody, and is an integral part of this board and one of the MANE reasons that makes this board so great!!

Wabbit, I look forward to more great posts as we turn the corner towards preseason, and actually get to see some actual football!!

[baja]

Quit belly acheing wabbit, whada ya gonna do run every time someone misquotes you. That's a litle thin skined for a media person.

[bendog]

All insubstantial. It comes from Wabbit, yes, but he ended up being completely wrong about the entire Pryce situation (Im hoping hes similarly wrong about the Middlebrooks situation, but thats a diff story). Remember the trade block caught Pryce by surprise and hes quoted with "no one has contacted me about restructuring"... he seemed like a class act when he showed up to off season work outs and was pro active about taking a pay cut. Thats reliable... the anti-Trevor rumors are hearsay. We'll find out soon enough, for sure.
wabbit wasn't wrong.

[watermock]

Wabbit, "The Plan" was a running gunfight. Anyone thinking that you have crawled in Shanahan's noggin' is crazy. I don't think there even WAS a plan, and if there was one, it was quickly abandoned.

As far as Slappy hating Gold, I can comiserate, I also think that moving Williams to a position he's never played isn't the brightest bulb, and Denver seemed to go down on him at the very begining of free agency. Still, everytime we see a signing, it seems like it's too much money. Hell, Ray Ray the slasher wants a 50 million dollar bonus. I felt Gold deserved 4-5 SB, so it's not an incredible reach. The real question to me isn't really the money, but why DJ had to move.

Regardless, we just have to hope Williams can make the switch, he's obviously not happy at that spot, and we might wind up losing him when his rookie contract nears it's end. That alone gives reason for pause.

I'm thrilled with the Browncos deals. Droughns wanted out, and wanted bling bling.

Trading out of the first round with Washington for the 2006 first and a 4th was an absolute coup. This could easily become a top 5 pick, and a very early second day pick.

Losing Hayward doesn't really concern me, getting three sacks against a third string tackle does not make you a dominant RDE.

Getting Pryce to redo, altho it went down to the wire, simply meant there wasn't that much interest, even from Dallas' Parcells, who seems to think this is 1997.

All Saurbraut has to do is punt and stay away from places frequented by Jano. He's a little slow to get off his kicks, so we will have to make sure we protect his fat ass.

I'm hoping Meyers can long snap, that would free up a spot for our 7th rounder kickoff specialist.

I didn't like losing Kennedy, but he was even more grossly overpaid than Gold.

Getting Clarett will be feast or famine. He has great vision and knows how to run. His running style reminds me of *gasp*, Terrell Davis. His character is another matter, but lets remember that TD was caught in the Gold room with some hoe on his lap.

My biggest concerns are if C. Brown can make it back, and a rather green secondary, or old if you count Lynch, but if our front 7 can bring it, it will cover up alot of weaknesses. Hopefully Walls can bounce back, because it seems Wabbit isn't to optimistic with Middlebrooks.

Considering that "The Plan" was going to be a disaster, losing Pryce, Hamilton, Cooper and the Putz, I think we rebounded well.

Our tiny tot Williams CB is supposed to be a terror on punt returns.

Like I said before, I think we pretty much "winged" it this year rather than some finely tuned attack.

[TheReverend]

What's the purpose of this?

I actually went back and looked through every post I made on the Pryce issue as it transpired &, as far as I can tell, nothing I said was incorrect at the time...nothing.

The Broncos did in fact have lengthy talks with Dallas about Pryce. Pryce & his agent did in fact do absolutely nothing to help facilitate a trade.

There was, in fact, considerable pressure to trade Pryce in February to free up cap space for FA's.

There were talks with everybody and anybody in the hope that something could get done prior to the draft...and barring that, perhaps on draft day itself.

I don't ask that anyone take anything I report as some kind of Gospel. I am a poster on a message board. Take it or leave it.

Truth is, I often add commentary & , yes, my very own opinion, and much of what I get when I'm NOT AT Bronco HQ is filtered through reporters or people that work there. I DO expect people who want to use me as some kind of sounding board for their own purposes, whatever they are...to get the facts right...and this guy couldn't bother.

I thank you for your defense SoCal, but you shouldn't have to...these kind of people have their own agenda.

Damn it's frustrating...and another reason to confine whatever we do here to opinion. I'll leave the reports for someone else.

Why are you getting insulted about this? Its not like you were the only one wrong about the Pryce thing... I wasnt have expected him to stay in Denver. Hoping not expecting. This wasnt some personal attack at you, Im just saying not everything is set in stone.

[TheReverend]

PS. this is great... more drama and this time Mock isnt involved

[watermock]

I'll try harder.

My point is this: I don't think Shanahan and his yes men are rather forthcoming other than thru public relations. A fly on the wall might help. Maybe Wabbit can bug Dove Valley, but other than that, I always consider things speculation until the cast is set. I might be wrong, and certain reporters are given the inside scoop, but again, I think they pretty much rolled with the punches this year.

IMO, by this time next year, things will be ALOT more sorted out. Everytime I think that Denver's offseason shenanigans can't get worse, they one up me, and probably, even the Wabbit.

This year, the DL situation, and CB should be more sorted out. We have a pack of dogs at RB as well.

We should have a pretty good idea where we stand this time next year. At this point, I don't have a clue about this year, I picked 9-7, but some late moves, and my annual preseason homernishisness has me at 11-5 with some interesting moves late.

[TheReverend]

I'll try harder.

My point is this: I don't think Shanahan and his yes men are rather forthcoming other than thru public relations. A fly on the wall might help. Maybe Wabbit can bug Dove Valley, but other than that, I always consider things speculation until the cast is set. I might be wrong, and certain reporters are given the inside scoop, but again, I think they pretty much rolled with the punches this year.

IMO, by this time next year, things will be ALOT more sorted out. Everytime I think that Denver's offseason shenanigans can't get worse, they one up me, and probably, even the Wabbit.

This year, the DL situation, and CB should be more sorted out. We have a pack of dogs at RB as well.

We should have a pretty good idea where we stand this time next year. At this point, I don't have a clue about this year, I picked 9-7, but some late moves, and my annual preseason homernishisness has me at 11-5 with some interesting moves late.

That was what I meant, Wabbit, when I said you were wrong. I was trying to defend Pryce and say we arent sure about the situation because everything behind it was completely uncharachteristic.

[watermock]

The fact is, Pryce was overpaid and off a back injury. Excuse us for being twitchy about Pryce, but IHOP is still fresh in our minds, and IHOP isn't even in the league.

Nice scouting Denver. The guy comes in, buys a 2.5 million dollar mansion to park his Bentley in, they trashes Denver because we "roll up the streets" at 2 A.M, then at 3 A.M. he managed to break his wrist on some clown's skull that actually objected to IHOP crashing the line.

It seemed like only yesterday we had the SOB travails with sidewalks, DUI's, and dogs.

Didn't we just lose a Rockie that was too impatient to take the elevator and fell down the stairs on a can of Spagettios?

[Symons26]

What's the purpose of this?

I actually went back and looked through every post I made on the Pryce issue as it transpired &, as far as I can tell, nothing I said was incorrect at the time...nothing.

The Broncos did in fact have lengthy talks with Dallas about Pryce. Pryce & his agent did in fact do absolutely nothing to help facilitate a trade.

There was, in fact, considerable pressure to trade Pryce in February to free up cap space for FA's.

There were talks with everybody and anybody in the hope that something could get done prior to the draft...and barring that, perhaps on draft day itself.

I don't ask that anyone take anything I report as some kind of Gospel. I am a poster on a message board. Take it or leave it.

Truth is, I often add commentary & , yes, my very own opinion, and much of what I get when I'm NOT AT Bronco HQ is filtered through reporters or people that work there. I DO expect people who want to use me as some kind of sounding board for their own purposes, whatever they are...to get the facts right...and this guy couldn't bother.

I thank you for your defense SoCal, but you shouldn't have to...these kind of people have their own agenda.

Damn it's frustrating...and another reason to confine whatever we do here to opinion. I'll leave the reports for someone else.




No disrespect wabbit, I am a frequent reader on the board...I dont post much but what is your connection to the broncos? thanks

[baja]

He's Kube's conqubine