Did you know? [Archive] - The Orange Mane - a Denver Broncos Fan Community

Spider

05-26-2005, 06:36 AM

Did you know? Rod Smith and Ashley Lelie combined to average 16.8 yards per catch in 2004, the highest in the league for a wide receiver tandem. Now for the interesting part: The next two highest totals were turned in by Super Bowl teams New England (16.7) and Philadelphia (16.6). ...
no I didnt know that ;D good job sunday ........ I do know our lack of Redzone execution bit us in the arse though ....

bloodsunday

05-26-2005, 07:02 AM

no I didnt know that ;D good job sunday ........ I do know our lack of Redzone execution bit us in the arse though ....
Agreed. Here's my thinking... we were one of the only teams (maybe the only one?) that had a top 5 offense and defense last season. We have a good pair of starting WR. We are one of the best running teams in the league. All the ingredients are there. With our improved special teams (Sauerbrun, D Williams) we have taken a huge step in the right direction. If the gambles we took on the DL work out and we work out our redzone offense, this could be a Super Bowl team. That's not homerism, that's just the truth.

Atlas

05-26-2005, 07:27 AM

Did You Know Civil War

At Yorktown, the victory that won the war, Frenchman outnumbered Americans almost three to one

Washington had 11,000 men engaged in the battle, while the French had at least 29,000 soldiers and sailors. The 37 French ships-of-the-line played a crucial role in trapping the 8,700 strong British army and winning the engagement.

The French didn't always suck.

Spider

05-26-2005, 07:30 AM

Agreed. Here's my thinking... we were one of the only teams (maybe the only one?) that had a top 5 offense and defense last season. We have a good pair of starting WR. We are one of the best running teams in the league. All the ingredients are there. With our improved special teams (Sauerbrun, D Williams) we have taken a huge step in the right direction. If the gambles we took on the DL work out and we work out our redzone offense, this could be a Super Bowl team. That's not homerism, that's just the truth.
oh i agree 100% then some ..... Lelie did what he was supposed to do last year , stretch the field , I expect more from Lelie as far as route running this year . we get our Browncos to pay off , Redzone fixed ....... Scary kinda good bro ;D

Hotrod

05-26-2005, 07:34 AM

oh i agree 100% then some ..... Lelie did what he was supposed to do last year , stretch the field , I expect more from Lelie as far as route running this year . we get our Browncos to pay off , Redzone fixed ....... Scary kinda good bro ;D

Devils advocate here ;D What did we do to fix the horrible redzone O???

Ray Finkle

05-26-2005, 07:35 AM

Devils advocate here ;D What did we do to fix the horrible redzone O???

I am going to get reamed for this but I think that is where and improved Putz and Alexander come in....

Hotrod

05-26-2005, 07:38 AM

I am going to get reamed for this but I think that is where and improved Putz and Alexander come in....

The TE position was a big part of the problem in the redzone but I think play calling was a huge factor. Also lets either take the fade pattern out of Jakes playbook or atleast practice it a bit more.

Hotrod

05-26-2005, 07:41 AM

Ya know who might be the biggest factor in red zone improvment this year. Foster he should be coming into his own. We need a better goal line push from 3 yards and in.

Spider

05-26-2005, 07:41 AM

Devils advocate here ;D What did we do to fix the horrible redzone O???
T.E. 60% ... we have to control the hash marks , then Power running , we have to make teams believe we can run in the redzone ...... Kinda curious to see Kyle Johnson in the redzone

bloodsunday

05-26-2005, 07:42 AM

Devils advocate here ;D What did we do to fix the horrible redzone O???
On the surface, not much. But here's what I look for:
1) Better, more inventive play calling. Take advantage of our mismatches.
2) Tatum Bell. He was much more explosive in the redzone than Droughns.
3) Better TE play (Alexander was acquired, Putz is a year more experienced).
4) Better WR play (Rice as a possesion guy and Watts is a year more experienced).
5) Fewer mistakes by Jake
6) Better o-line play with experience from Coop and Foster.

I think that the first 3 and probably 4 are extremely reasonable. I am in the "Jake is Jake" camp and don't expect him to be out of this world better than he has been in the past. But if he is even marginally better, 5 fewer picks?, then we will be more dangerous in 5 more games.

Looking at this list, there is some good possibility, IMO.

Hotrod

05-26-2005, 07:44 AM

On the surface, not much. Here's what I look for:
1) Better, more inventive play calling. Take advantage of our mismatches.
2) Tatum Bell. He was much more explosive in the redzone than Droughns.
3) Better TE play (Alexander was acquired, Putz is a year more experienced).
4) Better WR play (Rice as a possesion guy and Watts is a year more experienced).
5) Fewer mistakes by Jake

I think that the first 3 and probably 4 are extremely reasonable. I am in the "Jake is Jake" camp and don't expect him to be out of this world better than he has been in the past. But if he is even marginally better, 5 fewer picks?, then we will be more dangerous in 5 more games.

Looking at this list, there is some good possibility, IMO.

Thats a good list and I think if you add better line drive inside the 5 that should put us over the hump. Just for the record I think we will be better in most phases of the game this year.

Rascal

05-26-2005, 07:45 AM

Nothing.

Hopefully it improves through practice ane more experience. I wouldn't count on a big difference.

bloodsunday

05-26-2005, 07:46 AM

T.E. 60% ... we have to control the hash marks , then Power running , we have to make teams believe we can run in the redzone ...... Kinda curious to see Kyle Johnson in the redzone
I was quite impressed with how well Bell did in his redzone carries last season. He is so explosive and big enough that the smallest crease gives him a chance. Droughns was just a step too slow to explode into the hole like Bell did. Miami is a good run defense and they had no answer for Bell. Kid has sick ability.

By the way, I also think Droughns wore down. He has never been a fulltime starting NFL tailback and looked tired. That is the reason that Shanny was wise to pick up some tailback depth. Even if Bell is all we hope for, more than 300 carries is tough to ask of most backs. Having a guy like MA, Big Mo, or Dayne that can spell him or even play a full game here and there is valuable.

bloodsunday

05-26-2005, 07:48 AM

Thats a good list and I think if you add better line drive inside the 5 that should put us over the hump. Just for the record I think we will be better in most phases of the game this year.
I added it because I happen to agree. However, I think that Bell has the ability even if their play doesn't shoot off the charts. I also agree with Mock (scary) -- what every happend to the toss? TD made a living on that play. Again, I don't think we've had a back until Bell and Mo that was both tough enough and fast enough to run that play.

Spider

05-26-2005, 07:49 AM

I was quite impressed with how well Bell did in his redzone carries last season. He is so explosive and big enough that the smallest crease gives him a chance. Droughns was just a step too slow to explode into the hole like Bell did. Miami is a good run defense and they had no answer for Bell. Kid has sick ability.
I was also , Bell shut me up big time last year , i was an Idiot ...... ;D
I do like the Idea of a TE controling the Hashmarks in the redzone , combined with power Runnin , I could see Bell getting 25 + Trips into the endzone this year ......

By the way, I also think Droughns wore down. He has never been a fulltime starting NFL tailback and looked tired. That is the reason that Shanny was wise to pick up some tailback depth. Even if Bell is all we hope for, more than 300 carries is tough to ask of most backs. Having a guy like MA, Big Mo, or Dayne that can spell him or even play a full game here and there is valuable.
I would agree , R.D. is a Role player I was talking about , Still would like to have RD here , but I wish him luck in Detriot ......

Hotrod

05-26-2005, 07:50 AM

I added it because I happen to agree. However, I think that Bell has the ability even if their play doesn't shoot off the charts. I also agree with Mock (scary) -- what every happend to the toss? TD made a living on that play. Again, I don't think we've had a back until Bell and Mo that was both tough enough and fast enough to run that play.

The toss to TD was a thing of beauty. Bells certainly fast enough I wonder about the make up of the Oline being more the reason the toss was lost. ???

bloodsunday

05-26-2005, 07:51 AM

I am going to get reamed for this but I think that is where and improved Putz and Alexander come in....
I think this could be one of the more subtle acquisitions we made this offseason, and it was an afterthought after we resigned the Putz. Alexander is known as a balanced TE, can run block and catch balls. We need more of that. He is an instant threat just because the defense has to be prepared for him to do either in the redzone. If Putz was in the game, there was a good chance we were throwing the ball. Hopefully Putz can get his blocking to a level that allows him to be an every down player.

Oh yeah... and then we can keep "House" on the o-line since he has eaten himself there anyway.

Spider

05-26-2005, 07:52 AM

The toss to TD was a thing of beauty. Bells certainly fast enough I wonder about the make up of the Oline being more the reason the toss was lost. ???
The 19 stretch play . it was awesome ...... if Bell gets Patience , we could see 19 stretch all over again Bro ;D

bloodsunday

05-26-2005, 07:54 AM

The toss to TD was a thing of beauty. Bells certainly fast enough I wonder about the make up of the Oline being more the reason the toss was lost. ???
Could be. Having elite tackles like Zim and Tony Jones helps. But our line is known for being "athletic", and I'd like to believe they could still get out there and stretch those blocks. I think with our improved fullback play -- I like what I see from Johnson -- and a back with good quickness and power we could get the play back in the playbook. I am having an optimistic day ;D

Hotrod

05-26-2005, 07:59 AM

Could be. Having elite tackles like Zim and Tony Jones helps. But our line is known for being "athletic", and I'd like to believe they could still get out there and stretch those blocks. I think with our improved fullback play -- I like what I see from Johnson -- and a back with good quickness and power we could get the play back in the playbook. I am having an optimistic day ;D

Im with you !Booya!

I guess Im surprised by the yards per catch thing. Lelie having high #'s does not surprise me but I really thought Rods #'s were down somewhat. Im obviously wrong but it seemed like Rod had more short possesion type catches last year. Also I am in the Watts is gonna be a solid #3 camp. He showed enough in pre season last year that with some experiance hes gonna be solid at worst.

Rascal

05-26-2005, 08:00 AM

Jason in LA

05-26-2005, 08:03 AM

When Shanny says the Broncos aren't that far off, he's right. The past two years the Broncos were a few plays away from being 12-4 or better. The mistakes (turnovers) has been the biggest killer in my book. It's been more of a factor than the redzone. They've lost a lot of points by turning the ball over, and they've given the other team points with them. I want to see Plummer play like he did in '03, when he limited the turnovers (outside of the first game). Droughns hurt the team with some fumbles. Hopefully Bell doesn't have that problem.

As for the redzone, I think having Bell in there will improve the numbers. He hits the hole a lot faster than RD.

The Broncos have all the tools on O. They can move the ball on just about anybody. But it doesn't matter much when they drive down the field and turn it over.

Jason in LA

05-26-2005, 08:06 AM

Im with you !Booya!

I guess Im surprised by the yards per catch thing. Lelie having high #'s does not surprise me but I really thought Rods #'s were down somewhat. Im obviously wrong but it seemed like Rod had more short possesion type catches last year. Also I am in the Watts is gonna be a solid #3 camp. He showed enough in pre season last year that with some experiance hes gonna be solid at worst.

Rod still gets most of the shorter stuff, but he got way down field a number of times last year. He doesn't have the speed to burn CBs, but because he always runs shorter patterns he can catch a CB off guard on a deep pattern. And he still has enough speed not to get caught.

watermock

05-26-2005, 08:09 AM

Atlas

05-26-2005, 08:40 AM

Everytime we get into the redzone, when we used to pound TD on the sweep down their throats, Kubiak pulls out his Nintendo Playstation and pulls Putz, puts our RB in motion and acts like the biggest moron I have ever seen.

I don't have to complain about it, we had the 4th ranked offense and 28th ranked redzone offense. It's totally rediculous. I have been calling for this morons head for the past three years.

Well, Kubiak was calling plays when Elway was running the red zone offense and Denver was great in the Red Zone. Plummer doesn't make great decisions. The line has a hard time getting those tough yards. I might rank play calling behind that. If Plummer plays better in the red zone Denver will be much improved.

Spider

05-26-2005, 08:43 AM

Well, Kubiak was calling plays when Elway was running the red zone offense and Denver was great in the Red Zone. Plummer doesn't make great decisions. The line has a hard time getting those tough yards. I might rank play calling behind that. If Plummer plays better in the red zone Denver will be much improved.
see that is where it is on Kubes to adjust , Lets face it with TD , Elway ond Sharpe , ond that Oline , I could be making Calls and look like a genius ;D
Kubes has to understand that without a Sharpe type of TE , we are limited in the redzone ...... Make calls accordingly .....

Hotrod

05-26-2005, 08:48 AM

Its too bad we dont have that f'ing solder to play TE Oh wait ;D

Phantom

05-26-2005, 09:27 AM

Hopefully improve scoring from "outside" the Red Zone.

Lelie needs to maintain his balance on the stretch routes (he did improve last year).
Find Watts on the seam or crossing pattern and go the distance.
Bell has the breakaway speed once he hits the secondary (unlike RD).

bloodsunday

05-26-2005, 09:30 AM

Everytime we get into the redzone, when we used to pound TD on the sweep down their throats, Kubiak pulls out his Nintendo Playstation and pulls Putz, puts our RB in motion and acts like the biggest moron I have ever seen.
I think this really speaks to the decline in our personnel. The Denver coaches seem to have lost confidence in certain players (or groups) and have altered the playbook accordingly. Jake had good number his first year here (in terms of TD to INT ratio), but I really felt they took a lot of the playbook away. Seems to be the same in the redzone -- no more sweep, no clutch TE, etc...

bloodsunday

05-26-2005, 09:33 AM

The stretch play has been canned because our guards and to some extent the tackles aren't good enough. Before the guards were good enough to move and still get in front of the d-lineman and seal them off, I've seen several times where they haven't been able to do that.

Our o-line just isn't what it use to be. They are still good, but pale in comparison. I really hope Clabo and Myers pan out. We need some upgrades in the interior of the o-line badly.
I agree that our o-line play is not what is used to be -- I think I am firmly on record with that one :hitself: . But how can an offense that relies on "athletic" lineman not be able to execute a stretch play? You'd think that would be your bread and butter. If the coaching staff feels the same way that we do, then something is very wrong. I am hoping they removed the stretch play because the speed of our backs has declined not because they have lost faith in the o-line. If its the latter, then we should really be adding some better lineman huh?

bloodsunday

05-26-2005, 09:35 AM

The Broncos have all the tools on O. They can move the ball on just about anybody. But it doesn't matter much when they drive down the field and turn it over.
Or stall in the redzone. Both are problems and pretty highly correlated.

bloodsunday

05-26-2005, 09:36 AM

see that is where it is on Kubes to adjust , Lets face it with TD , Elway ond Sharpe , ond that Oline , I could be making Calls and look like a genius ;D
Kubes has to understand that without a Sharpe type of TE , we are limited in the redzone ...... Make calls accordingly .....
It's not just the plays he calls either. It's the plays we have in the playbook. Denver needs to do a better job of creating plays (before the season and during the game preparation) that utilize the players we have.

bloodsunday

05-26-2005, 09:39 AM

Bell has the breakaway speed once he hits the secondary (unlike RD).
Breakaway speed is nice, but I am more concerned about the average play. TD did a great job of getting 3 yards or more on EVERY play. That is huge because you can continue to run the ball on 3rd and 4. It's also huge because you don't have many 2 and 12 situations. Portis relied too much on his speed, IMO. Thus, he would try to hit a homerun on every play and too often losted yardage. In fairness to Portis, some of that could be a decrease in o-line play as well. Nonetheless, I want to see a more consistent 3 - 7 yard type run out of our running game.

Spider

05-26-2005, 09:40 AM

It's not just the plays he calls either. It's the plays we have in the playbook. Denver needs to do a better job of creating plays (before the season and during the game preparation) that utilize the players we have.
hopefully Putz will work out and we wont have to revamp our Redzone Playbook .....

Jason in LA

05-26-2005, 01:55 PM

Breakaway speed is nice, but I am more concerned about the average play. TD did a great job of getting 3 yards or more on EVERY play. That is huge because you can continue to run the ball on 3rd and 4. It's also huge because you don't have many 2 and 12 situations. Portis relied too much on his speed, IMO. Thus, he would try to hit a homerun on every play and too often losted yardage. In fairness to Portis, some of that could be a decrease in o-line play as well. Nonetheless, I want to see a more consistent 3 - 7 yard type run out of our running game.

A couple of weeks ago somebody said that Bell only had one carry for a loss. I haven't seen the offical stat on that, but I remember him getting positive yards on pretty much every carry.

I wouldn't blame the O line for Portis losing yards so much. RD and Bell ran behind pretty much the same O line. Portis was too easy to take down.

TotallyScrewed

05-26-2005, 02:32 PM

The stretch play has been canned because our guards and to some extent the tackles aren't good enough. Before the guards were good enough to move and still get in front of the d-lineman and seal them off, I've seen several times where they haven't been able to do that.

Our o-line just isn't what it use to be. They are still good, but pale in comparison. I really hope Clabo and Myers pan out. We need some upgrades in the interior of the o-line badly.

I agree 100%. This is still my biggest concern. That and the injury bug. They could sure use a year of "fewer than normal" injuries.

Between Q and RD, they fumbled a couple of games away and a home playoff game. Bell is supremely talented, fast as lightning...I'm not sure you can expect patience from lightning. There are gonna be times where you slap your forehead in frustration. This is really his rookie year starting, provided he starts, that is.

fontaine

05-27-2005, 03:40 AM

I agree that our o-line play is not what is used to be -- I think I am firmly on record with that one :hitself: . But how can an offense that relies on "athletic" lineman not be able to execute a stretch play? You'd think that would be your bread and butter. If the coaching staff feels the same way that we do, then something is very wrong. I am hoping they removed the stretch play because the speed of our backs has declined not because they have lost faith in the o-line. If its the latter, then we should really be adding some better lineman huh?

Dan Neil was playing on a busted knee and a sports hernia so he couldn't get to the 2nd level easily. It was Foster's first season there and although he's great runblocking in short space, he's not good enough yet to seal the edge and run out blocking afterwards.

Hamilton? He never struck me as a great blocker on the run. Lepsis usually did a great job and was probably one of our best blockers on the run once he got to the 2nd level when he was RT. I think going they kinda limited his role at LT to get him used to it rather than throwing the whole book at him. I think this year you'll see more of our OL getting to the 2nd level and run blocking better with Foster/Lepsis in the 2nd year, and a healthy, young RG.

Hotrod

05-27-2005, 07:09 AM

Dan Neil was playing on a busted knee and a sports hernia so he couldn't get to the 2nd level easily. It was Foster's first season there and although he's great runblocking in short space, he's not good enough yet to seal the edge and run out blocking afterwards.

Hamilton? He never struck me as a great blocker on the run. Lepsis usually did a great job and was probably one of our best blockers on the run once he got to the 2nd level when he was RT. I think going they kinda limited his role at LT to get him used to it rather than throwing the whole book at him. I think this year you'll see more of our OL getting to the 2nd level and run blocking better with Foster/Lepsis in the 2nd year, and a healthy, young RG.

Was Foster not a natural LT maybe now is the time to take a look at switching Lepsis and Foster ???

Rascal

05-27-2005, 07:31 AM

I agree that our o-line play is not what is used to be -- I think I am firmly on record with that one :hitself: . But how can an offense that relies on "athletic" lineman not be able to execute a stretch play? You'd think that would be your bread and butter. If the coaching staff feels the same way that we do, then something is very wrong. I am hoping they removed the stretch play because the speed of our backs has declined not because they have lost faith in the o-line. If its the latter, then we should really be adding some better lineman huh?

Pretty sure both Clinton Portis and Tatum Bell are faster then TD. Q might also be faster but I'll give TD the benefit of the doubt.

So based on that one has no choice but to conclude that is our line. During the SB and TD's rise our O-line was comparable to what the chiefs line is today. They were easily the best in the league. Today, they are good but not top notch.

Excuse me while I rant....

I really wish we had gotten one of the top notch guards that were available this offseason. I would have been thrilled to death if we had stolen Demulling from the Colts who will miss him dearly (I expect Peyton to be on his back more this year and their running game to suffer). Instead we gave a midget LB way to much money and a 42 year old WR a cool 800K to plan his retirement on. I think we easily overpaid for Ian and we could have used that money, Rice's money, and something else to get Demulling. Heck the guy even stated he wanted to come here and we didn't even bring him in for a talk. :thumbs: Shanny.

fontaine

05-27-2005, 07:52 AM

Was Foster not a natural LT maybe now is the time to take a look at switching Lepsis and Foster ???

Honestly? I have no idea. Perhaps they are waiting for Foster to improve to a level where they can move him to LT and then move Clabo to RT which would mean Lepsis wouldn't have to be resigned after this season.