Why do the Rockies Suck so bad?

[watermock]

I don't get it.

Beautifull Stadium downtown, good fan base, yet they consistently suck wind.

I know the ball hangs for our pitchers, but doesn't it hang for other pitchers as well?

Damn, it's an even field. It's been 10 years and they seem to get worse every year. Hell, I went to see them at Mile High with my young kid to tell him, hey, this is where John Elway played.

I had no clue the new digs would be a joke. I don't get it. The fan base is fine, the stadium is fine. Denver isn't a cowtown now. Even Minnesota can field a team.

You can say Denver is a football town, but that isn't exactly true. There was passion for the Nuggets.

Someone explain this to me. Is it the ownership?

[bpc]

Starts at the top. Management has made terrible decisions about this team to the point where the owners have slashed the payroll and aren't willing to pay money to good players. There is only one way really to be successful. You take that money you wasted on cruddy pitchers like Daryl Kyle, Denny Nagle and Mike Hampton and you sign players like Larry Walker, Todd Helton, Ken Griffey, maybe a Barry Bonds. You get guys that can create offense anywhere.

Then you have to have great management and a farmclub that is second to none bringing up pitchers. Drafting is the lifeblood from your pitchers. You can't adapt great pitchers to our park. They mentality gets fried after half a season and they are a waste of money. So draft, draft, draft. The pitchers are going to get rocked but at least the investment isn't so huge that you can't cut ties.

This way, you are getting closer to division championships. However, I doubt we'll ever see a world championship banner hanging from Coors Field.

[broncos-rock]

More than anything its the owners. I saw an interview with Dick and Charlie Monfort, they were talking about how they wish they would have started the organization through the minor leagues. No high priced free agents which would mean no 1995 playoffs. I guess what pissed me off was the huge wad of gum in his mouth the whole time. Just not the perception an owner should have. It seems they keep going back and forth between plans. :tearhair:

[Merlin]

I know the ball hangs for our pitchers, but doesn't it hang for other pitchers as well?
I have not followed baseball in a while, but I can tell you this is a common misconception. People conclude that since all pitchers must pitch in that environment, then they all suffer the same. The difference is that other teams go there for a couple of games and then they are gone; i.e. the pitchers have time to recover. That stadium burns out home pitchers because day-in and day-out they have to pitch in there with no visible signs of respite. So, even though on the surface all pitchers face the same environment, the Rockies pitchers get fewer opportunities to recover from it an burnout.

YMMV,
Merlin

[Meck77]

I asked this question to a former Rockies player who works at the same office I do. His response "They have the equivalent of a triple AAA team". I'm not kidding that's what he said.

[Hogan11]

I don't get it.

Beautifull Stadium downtown, good fan base, yet they consistently suck wind.

I know the ball hangs for our pitchers, but doesn't it hang for other pitchers as well?

Damn, it's an even field. It's been 10 years and they seem to get worse every year. Hell, I went to see them at Mile High with my young kid to tell him, hey, this is where John Elway played.

I had no clue the new digs would be a joke. I don't get it. The fan base is fine, the stadium is fine. Denver isn't a cowtown now. Even Minnesota can field a team.

You can say Denver is a football town, but that isn't exactly true. There was passion for the Nuggets.

Someone explain this to me. Is it the ownership?

It's all about the front office.

Minnesota has an excellent front office...so did Montreal until the Sith Lord Darth Loria bought the team and took the remenants of it to FLA with him.

Now that I'm in the Pittsburgh camp, I see the same front office mis-management and the same type of Owner who would supposedly love to put money into the team, but it's supposedly not there.....actually The Pirates are pretty much the same as the Rockies at this point...Beautiful Stadium downtown, good fan base, yet they consistently suck wind.

Blame the owner and GM whom are incapable of doing what Minnesota does so well.

[RaiderH8r]

I'm a Braves fan and I think Hampton did get burned out up there. Breaking pitches bite better in humid climates.

[Old Dude]

ownership

[MajikMan7]

Because they don't have Lyle OOOHHHHHverbay who is leading the league with an onbase % over .500 and is second in the league in OPS. And they don't have a flamethrower Closer like Derek Turnbow.

[Kaylore]

ownership
And the league is broken.

[watermock]

Thanks for your opinions.

It just seems to me that they have a Wrigley Field type feel, they have lots of watering holes and such around it. It's right downtown.

Noone has really given me an answer other than mismanagement. Well, let's take the bastard down to 5 points and cap the bastard.

At least Bowlen bangs on the cap every year. I just can't figure out how they can be this bad. It's been about 10 years now. I'm patient, we have been patient with the Nuggets, they seem on the right track.

The Rockies are like a sunfish lost out to sea for a week like those two kids. Give me a ****ing break. All the elements are there to win. Someone go cap the owner or something. It's rediculous that the team can't at least reach .600. The fans are right there on the sidewalk.

You guys are telling me its the ownership, but it has to be more than that.

I honestly do track the Rockies, and I wonder again and again how the Twinks can manage to put together a better team in a bag, in an ugly dome than Denver.

I'm not asking for the world series, just a damn team that isn't a joke.

[FADERPROOF]

Because they have Todd Helton and the rest would be in Double A for most other teams.

[-Slap-]

An arbiter ruled on the Rockies' attempt to cancel the remaining $19.5 million due on ragarm Denny Neagle's contract. The Rockies had hoped to invoke a moral terpitude clause in Neagle's contract after he was arrested for soliciting a prostitute. No specifics are available, but it looks like the arbiter found primarily in Neagle's favor.

[Hogan11]

If you don't have a good baseball guy for a GM, then you're not going to get good baseball decisions...you'll get goofy trades and gutted farm systems.

Speaking of farm systems, if you are a small market team, you must have good baseball people in the scouting dept. in order to have a good farm system.....which is needed to fill the inevitable holes when players come up for arbitration and pursue the big bucks to the large markets (Your NY's, Chicago's, L.A.'s etc.) A big reason why the Twins & the A's succeed and the Royals, Pirates and others fail is because they have good to great personel in this dept.

Some small markets have to deal their "stars" in order to field a team...The trouble with the whole "trading established players for prospects" thing is that about the time those prospects are developed, they are also headed in for arbitration, from which they usually come out no longer affordable to the team that developed them....so it becomes a circlular thing....one in which the team hopes for that one season they can "catch lightning in a bottle" and have them develop and the team jell while still under contract....it rarely happens and when it does, it only lasts for one season.

[telluride]

I'm tempted to blame Shanny.

[Ballhawk]

Rockies screwed up when they went after pitching and away from a loaded lineup. They need to build a team to win 15-10 ball games not 8-6.

[Cito Pelon]

When your hitters are more interested in watching where their foul balls go instead of preparing themselves for the next pitch, you have a biiiiiiiiiggg problem.

I haven't watched the Rockies for years, and just because of that. Who wants to watch that crap? They're not interested in winning, so why watch them play?

[bpc]

Starts with management, ends with management. They have been stupid from the get go. Giving Denny Nagle a fat contract like he got? What a reach! He wasn't even that great for Cincy or wherever he played. We just basically over spent.

Now he has been injured for several years not even trying to come back, stupid punk biyatch. I don't blame him though... he was only in it for the money, frickin burnout. And we gave it right to him. Managements fault though.

You need to load the lineup with players that can hit in any park and then use the farm system primarily for pitching... developing them and having pitchers waiting in the wings. I feel bad for guys like Helton and Walker.

Its almost impossible to root for the Rockies... border line helpless. You have basically no chance at winning the world series. And management sucks so bad, it doesn't look like its going to change anytime soon.

[labronx]

It's the The Coors!

The Front office has been competitive and good at spoting and bringing in talent.
It just doesn't work out beacause of the dynamics of the field.
Baseball was not meant to be played in that field.

Take Juan Pierre for example classic national league style player. Groundball/Spray hitter, not to much power, great spead and good fielder.

This type of player doesn't adapt well at Coors. Loook at Mike Hampton and Daryl Kyle.

Pedro Astacio is the only pitcher that kinda worked out. Good fastball decent offspead stuff back then.

Coors robs the Rockies of fielding a solid fundemantally based team.

The altitude kills the natural physics off the ball and as everyone know it affects the effectiveness of their pitching staff, this forces them to alter their style and approach, which in turn throws them off on the road.

By it affecting the pitching which they say is 90% of the game, then there you go!

all those great offensive numbers they have put up over the years has gotten them one playoff appearance.

This team has never been a team to manufacture runs, they're the Blake St Bombers!to bad they cant take the street with them on the road.

Since they dont know how to play small ball or National League style they cant produce clutch performances on the road or at home.

The Dodgers, Padres and Giants and Backs all have played great small ball at one point during the Rockies existance.

only the Dodgers and Rocks have not advanced in the playoffs since the birth of the Rockies.

Dodgers seem like they might be able to soon as for the Rockies they should just concede and either move to a diff stadium or just make a more controlled environment, Like a dome or somthing.

[Champbaileystopsmoss]

All i gotta say is GO DODGERS....i remember watching a baseball game involving the rockies and Vin Scully said something along the lines that the rockies bullpen isnt very good. So I think its your bullpen thats not doing the job. By the way the rockies won that game by a run...

[TomServo]

the rox fielded a really good team in the mid-late 90's so i dont buy any excuses why they cant do it again. if i recall (i wont look it up. this is what i remember)this was the team i remember best.
catcher joe girardi(sp)
1st base andres gallaraga
2nd base eric young
short walt weiss
3rd vinny castilla
rf larry walker
center ellis burks
left- i cant recall
check me if im wrong but thats a damn good team. i cant recall the pitching, starting or bullpen but they were damn good too.
the mid 90's rox were like the elway era broncos. we would be down 7 runs in the 7th inning and so what? NP we'll come back.
if they could do it ten years ago why not again?

[TomServo]

just remembered the other OF-dante bichette.
as to why the rockies suck so bad right now? they are taking the nuggets approach. burn all the old high priced contracts for players that arent even on the team anymore- walker, hampton, etc. and start from scratch. rox are the youngest team in the league i believe.
after coors opened we used to make 2-3 games a year(B4)kids. i couldnt imagine going to a night game in texas or kc and have the temp be in the 80's and no humidity. Then going out and walking around LoDo hitting the bars was awesome.

[TheDave]

Coors robs the Rockies of fielding a solid fundemantally based team.

The altitude kills the natural physics off the ball and as everyone know it affects the effectiveness of their pitching staff, this forces them to alter their style and approach, which in turn throws them off on the road.

By it affecting the pitching which they say is 90% of the game, then there you go!


Funny how the altitude never affects the minor league teams. That whole altitude thing is 80% Bull$hit. It's an excuse that the players all rely on now... This team is poorly managed from the top all the way down.

[-Slap-]

The Rockies need to concentrate on three basic principles when building a team for that ballpark.

1 - Sinkerball pitchers. All pitchers in Coors are going to get knocked around a bit. You want control pitchers, who limit walks, so the inevitable home runs don't bury you. You also need guys who are mentally tough enough to handle the periodic abuse. I think Jeff Francis has the makeup to succeed there. He's the guy you build around.
http://images.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/_photos/2004-09-20-francis.jpg

2 - Fleet outfielders. Obviously you want power hitters in Coors, but even more important are OFs who can run down balls in that huge outfield. Letting Juan Pierre get away was asinine.
http://www.marlinsrule.net/pierre.jpg

3 - Power hitters. Duh. So why are all the Rock's recent hitting prospects gap hitters? The Rocks should be jumping on any veteran infielder who comes on the market with 30 HR ability. A guy like Jeff Kent would have looked real good in the middle of that batting order this year. God knows Todd Helton would have appreciated the lineup protection.
http://img.slate.msn.com/media/13/040923_SN_JeffKent.jpg

[Tredici]

I think you just defined Baylor Ball. The biggest mistake was management not believing in the system he knew instinctively was the successful route in Coors Field.

Wanting to dance just like everybody else instead of what can get you to the dance is the Rockie Ownership's downfall.

[Clockwork Orange]

You had to bring up Juan Pierre. Makes me wince every time I think about it.

I don't give a damn how many runs Preston Wilson batted in, Pierre was a tablesetter and a speedy guy who could cover the massive Coors outfield.

But it's further proof of how bad the Mike Hampton signing was. Pierre was dealt away in the deal that rid the Rockies of Hampton.....who they're still paying and who's having a fine year thus far in Atlanta.

Now they're stuck paying Denny Neagle $16 million to go away. It's enough to make a grown man want to weep.

[BritBronco Maniac]

The problem is part altitude, part management.

The altitude problem is that the physics mean the balls behave differently at Coors field, they break less, so pitchers and hitters both get used the Coors field conditions.

This means that when they go on the road, and conditions are back to normal the Rockies struggle to adjust, Pitchers have trouble with control as their curve balls bite more, and the hitters strike out more by swinging at stuff way out of the zone that would be a stike in Denver.

There comes the other problem, Management took far too long to identify this problem, spending big money on Pitchers which has been an albatross round the neck of the franchise.
Personally I think this is one of the biggest problems in Baseball, that players who fall to live up to contracts are guaranteed the full whack, but that is a different issue, and whatever the Rockies knew the rules when they wrote the contracts.

I think the Rockies finally have found what looks to be the makings of a winning strategy, bringing up players (and pitchers in particular) through the farm system. Not every pitcher can make it but this way it costs less to find out.

The future has got to be a continuation of this, but the system also has to produce more hitters, contact hitters for the road in particular, to be complemented by veteran role players.

The main problem so far this season is the sloppy bullpen, which has received no investment behind the closer, and the lack of veteran hitters as they were all run out of town last season as a result of the the budget cuts.

The team is no way as bad as their record, as they have been in a lot of games, they just don't seem to be able to produce a timely hit, or the bullpen blows it.
As the kids develop, and if the bullpen receives some investment, this team might eventually edge back to being competitive.

[BritBronco Maniac]

P.S Where is the option for - It's Brians fault!

[-Slap-]

The problem is part altitude, part management.

The altitude problem is that the physics mean the balls behave differently at Coors field, they break less, so pitchers and hitters both get used the Coors field conditions.

This means that when they go on the road, and conditions are back to normal the Rockies struggle to adjust, Pitchers have trouble with control as their curve balls bite more, and the hitters strike out more by swinging at stuff way out of the zone that would be a stike in Denver.

It just sounds like excuses. Players in Texas have to deal with extreme heat during the summer months and some say they wear down as a result. The Cubs used to play nothing but day games at home and some say that it was difficult for them to adjust when they went on road trips. You've got guys like Nevin and Klesko who've been in the big leagues for ten years bitching about the way PetCo Park depresses power numbers. There are always going to be park effects. You can minimize them by building your team to suit your ballpark so that you at least enjoy a home park advantage.

[BritBronco Maniac]

Slap, I get what you mean, if you have a HR hitters park like course build a team of sluggers to give you the advantage. It will inflate HR figures of your hitters and the ERA of your pitchers, but there is no reason why that should effect their road play.

But I am not talking about the dimensions of the park, or how far the ball flies, I am talking about the break of the ball.
When a ball is flying at you at 90+mph there is not a lot of time to read it, and it is a big adjustment to make going from mile high to sea level.
I don't buy into all this talk of the Rockies never being able to win the World Series because they play at Mile High, I'm just saying it took management too long to realise this, and they tried to sign the wrong sort of players.

[Breck Bronc]

Everyone has a theory as to why the Rockies haven't had success since the mid-90's. A lot of people overanalyze what it takes to win at altitude, and some think it's impossible. But in Denver's long history as a triple-AAA city prior to 1993 the town had seen very many good teams. The 1980 Denver Bears, led by Tim Raines and Tim Wallach, are considered one of the best teams in minor league history by minorleaguebaseball.com.

The simple fact is the Rockies need good players! Put the current St. Louis Cardinals roster in Denver and the current Colorado Rockies roster in St. Louis and the results would be the same; the Rockies would all of a sudden be a great team and the Cardinals would completely suck.

Since Dan O'Dowd became general manager in 1999 they've tried to build the team in different ways almost every season. It started with fast players who can play good defense then changed to signing the most expensive pitchers in free agency then changed to trying to bring back the Blake St. Bombers then changed to the current youth movement. For the first time since the franchise started last decade the Rockies are finally building up their farm system. For so long they truly thought they were a few players away from contending and never tried to rebuild, even though they were deluding themselves.

The Rockies have only produced one true star hitter from their farm system, Todd Helton. Juan Pierre and Juan Uribe are the next best guys they've developed, which says a lot. Look at the Rockies' expansion cousins in Florida. Can you imagine what kind of damage Miguel Cabrera would do playing 81 games a year in Colorado? Josh Beckett would still be an ace in if he wore a Rockies' uniform. The Marlins have also made some great trades to bring in young talent like A.J. Burnett, Dontrelle Willis, Carl Pavano, Brad Penny, Mike Lowell and other guys that have contributed to their successful teams of the past 3 years.

Colorado has finally started to draft well, getting guys like Ian Stewart, Jeff Baker, Chris Nelson, and Jeff Francis. They've also just started to sign foreign prospects out of Asia and Latin America, a place they neglected to scout for too long.

The current starting pitching staff is not bad. They have 5 guys that can keep them in ball games and not worry that their ERA is higher than normal because of their home ballpark. The problem is the bullpen; it might be the worst pen in the history of baseball. You should see the looks Helton gives Byung-Hyung Kim when he's on the mound throwing wild pitches, hitting batters and walking almost everyone else. They've blown 8 saves in 10 chances. The current closer, Chin-Hui Taso, never gets a chance to pitch with a lead in the 9th inning because the middle relievers always give up leads. Tsao has great stuff and, if he stays healthy, should be their closer for many years to come.

The success of the 1995 Blake St. Bombers can be placed on the shoulders of the bullpen. Many people think the Rockies need to put added emphasis on building their bullpen, and the '95 team proves that theory. Darren Holmes, Bruce Ruffin, Curtis Leskanic, and Steve Reed had a collective ERA under 3.00 in almost 300 innings. In Coors Field that's almost inconceivable.

Next season, when the huge contracts of Larry Walker, Preston Wilson, Charles Johnson, and Denny Neagle come off the books, Colorado should re-invest some of that money into proven relievers with great fastballs who don't rely too much on their curve. Keep drafting and developing good hitters and stocking the farm system. Hope that Clint Barmes and Brad Hawpe continue to look like solid major leaguers and Ian Stewart comes up to join Todd Helton as the second stud hitter Coloardo has turned out.

Winning here can be done. You've just got to hope that the Monfort Brothers learned that signing pitchers like Mike Hampton and Denny Neagle to huge contracts is as stupid a thing one can do.



http://www.logoserver.com/baseball/DenverBears.GIF

[-Slap-]

Man, this post is outstanding, even by Breck's extremely high standards. Two points especially stand out. First, its not even so much that management has a poor plan, but that they seem to have no consistent plan from year to year and its virtually impossible to win that way.

Second, middle relief is possibly the most important, and definitely the most overlooked, element of any successful baseball team.

Everyone has a theory as to why the Rockies haven't had success since the mid-90's. A lot of people overanalyze what it takes to win at altitude, and some think it's impossible. But in Denver's long history as a triple-AAA city prior to 1993 the town had seen very many good teams. The 1980 Denver Bears, led by Tim Raines and Tim Wallach, are considered one of the best teams in minor league history by minorleaguebaseball.com.

The simple fact is the Rockies need good players! Put the current St. Louis Cardinals roster in Denver and the current Colorado Rockies roster in St. Louis and the results would be the same; the Rockies would all of a sudden be a great team and the Cardinals would completely suck.

Since Dan O'Dowd became general manager in 1999 they've tried to build the team in different ways almost every season. It started with fast players who can play good defense then changed to signing the most expensive pitchers in free agency then changed to trying to bring back the Blake St. Bombers then changed to the current youth movement. For the first time since the franchise started last decade the Rockies are finally building up their farm system. For so long they truly thought they were a few players away from contending and never tried to rebuild, even though they were deluding themselves.

The Rockies have only produced one true star hitter from their farm system, Todd Helton. Juan Pierre and Juan Uribe are the next best guys they've developed, which says a lot. Look at the Rockies' expansion cousins in Florida. Can you imagine what kind of damage Miguel Cabrera would do playing 81 games a year in Colorado? Josh Beckett would still be an ace in if he wore a Rockies' uniform. The Marlins have also made some great trades to bring in young talent like A.J. Burnett, Dontrelle Willis, Carl Pavano, Brad Penny, Mike Lowell and other guys that have contributed to their successful teams of the past 3 years.

Colorado has finally started to draft well, getting guys like Ian Stewart, Jeff Baker, Chris Nelson, and Jeff Francis. They've also just started to sign foreign prospects out of Asia and Latin America, a place they neglected to scout for too long.

The current starting pitching staff is not bad. They have 5 guys that can keep them in ball games and not worry that their ERA is higher than normal because of their home ballpark. The problem is the bullpen; it might be the worst pen in the history of baseball. You should see the looks Helton gives Byung-Hyung Kim when he's on the mound throwing wild pitches, hitting batters and walking almost everyone else. They've blown 8 saves in 10 chances. The current closer, Chin-Hui Taso, never gets a chance to pitch with a lead in the 9th inning because the middle relievers always give up leads. Tsao has great stuff and, if he stays healthy, should be their closer for many years to come.

The success of the 1995 Blake St. Bombers can be placed on the shoulders of the bullpen. Many people think the Rockies need to put added emphasis on building their bullpen, and the '95 team proves that theory. Darren Holmes, Bruce Ruffin, Curtis Leskanic, and Steve Reed had a collective ERA under 3.00 in almost 300 innings. In Coors Field that's almost inconceivable.

Next season, when the huge contracts of Larry Walker, Preston Wilson, Charles Johnson, and Denny Neagle come off the books, Colorado should re-invest some of that money into proven relievers with great fastballs who don't rely too much on their curve. Keep drafting and developing good hitters and stocking the farm system. Hope that Clint Barmes and Brad Hawpe continue to look like solid major leaguers and Ian Stewart comes up to join Todd Helton as the second stud hitter Coloardo has turned out.

Winning here can be done. You've just got to hope that the Monfort Brothers learned that signing pitchers like Mike Hampton and Denny Neagle to huge contracts is as stupid a thing one can do.



http://www.logoserver.com/baseball/DenverBears.GIF

[Clockwork Orange]

Everyone has a theory as to why the Rockies haven't had success since the mid-90's. A lot of people overanalyze what it takes to win at altitude, and some think it's impossible. But in Denver's long history as a triple-AAA city prior to 1993 the town had seen very many good teams. The 1980 Denver Bears, led by Tim Raines and Tim Wallach, are considered one of the best teams in minor league history by minorleaguebaseball.com.

The simple fact is the Rockies need good players! Put the current St. Louis Cardinals roster in Denver and the current Colorado Rockies roster in St. Louis and the results would be the same; the Rockies would all of a sudden be a great team and the Cardinals would completely suck.

Since Dan O'Dowd became general manager in 1999 they've tried to build the team in different ways almost every season. It started with fast players who can play good defense then changed to signing the most expensive pitchers in free agency then changed to trying to bring back the Blake St. Bombers then changed to the current youth movement. For the first time since the franchise started last decade the Rockies are finally building up their farm system. For so long they truly thought they were a few players away from contending and never tried to rebuild, even though they were deluding themselves.

The Rockies have only produced one true star hitter from their farm system, Todd Helton. Juan Pierre and Juan Uribe are the next best guys they've developed, which says a lot. Look at the Rockies' expansion cousins in Florida. Can you imagine what kind of damage Miguel Cabrera would do playing 81 games a year in Colorado? Josh Beckett would still be an ace in if he wore a Rockies' uniform. The Marlins have also made some great trades to bring in young talent like A.J. Burnett, Dontrelle Willis, Carl Pavano, Brad Penny, Mike Lowell and other guys that have contributed to their successful teams of the past 3 years.

Colorado has finally started to draft well, getting guys like Ian Stewart, Jeff Baker, Chris Nelson, and Jeff Francis. They've also just started to sign foreign prospects out of Asia and Latin America, a place they neglected to scout for too long.

The current starting pitching staff is not bad. They have 5 guys that can keep them in ball games and not worry that their ERA is higher than normal because of their home ballpark. The problem is the bullpen; it might be the worst pen in the history of baseball. You should see the looks Helton gives Byung-Hyung Kim when he's on the mound throwing wild pitches, hitting batters and walking almost everyone else. They've blown 8 saves in 10 chances. The current closer, Chin-Hui Taso, never gets a chance to pitch with a lead in the 9th inning because the middle relievers always give up leads. Tsao has great stuff and, if he stays healthy, should be their closer for many years to come.

The success of the 1995 Blake St. Bombers can be placed on the shoulders of the bullpen. Many people think the Rockies need to put added emphasis on building their bullpen, and the '95 team proves that theory. Darren Holmes, Bruce Ruffin, Curtis Leskanic, and Steve Reed had a collective ERA under 3.00 in almost 300 innings. In Coors Field that's almost inconceivable.

Next season, when the huge contracts of Larry Walker, Preston Wilson, Charles Johnson, and Denny Neagle come off the books, Colorado should re-invest some of that money into proven relievers with great fastballs who don't rely too much on their curve. Keep drafting and developing good hitters and stocking the farm system. Hope that Clint Barmes and Brad Hawpe continue to look like solid major leaguers and Ian Stewart comes up to join Todd Helton as the second stud hitter Coloardo has turned out.

Winning here can be done. You've just got to hope that the Monfort Brothers learned that signing pitchers like Mike Hampton and Denny Neagle to huge contracts is as stupid a thing one can do.



http://www.logoserver.com/baseball/DenverBears.GIF

Excellent post. I think the only thing you left out is the glaring lack of accountibility within the organization. No one's job is ever in danger no matter how badly they screw up. Clint Hurdle (he of the brilliant idea to make Shawn Chacon a closer one year after he was an All-Star as a starter) and Dan O'Dowd (too many instances to name, pick one) seem to be made of teflon and ownership is pretty indifferent about the situation so long as the team stays within their budget.

What really gets me is the fact that all they needed to do was listen to their ever-dwindling paying customers. The fans weren't and aren't expecting a perennial championship contender, just a team & front office that is committed to winning. They've been given neither and have responded accordingly, by staying away in droves. The way the Rockies organization went from being darlings in this town to a virtual afterthought is a testament to the inept management of the franchise.

The Nuggets were dreadful for a looong time, but management was always trying to improve (albeit unsuccessfully until recently). The Broncos and Avalanche are model franchises in terms of doing whatever it takes to be competitive and successful regardless of cost.

But no one could really figure out the Rockies plan as far as player personnel goes because, until now, there never seemingly was one. Now they're going with a youth movement, which is fine, so long as they stay committed to it and resist the urge to start slapping band-aids on the team by acquiring some overpriced (and generally overrated or over the hill) players to try and bump their record this year.

Take your lumps now and stick to the rebuilding. Anything else will be yet another critical blow to the credibility of the front office, something they can ill-afford these days.

[labronx]

Funny how the altitude never affects the minor league teams. That whole altitude thing is 80% Bull$hit. It's an excuse that the players all rely on now... This team is poorly managed from the top all the way down.

Do the minor league teams play at Coors?

[Clockwork Orange]

Do the minor league teams play at Coors?

The Bears & Zephyrs played at Mile High Stadium.

[Bronx33]

Rockies = Denver Bears

[TomServo]

so the short answer is GM dan o'dowd. former GM bob gebhardt(sp)gets shown the door despite fielding an entertaining and good team. while a total incompetent like o'dowd just keeps running the team for half a decade now.

[BRONCCRUSHFAN]

Do the minor league teams play at Coors?

They played at Mile High, which had a much more expansive outfield than Coors Field.

[TomServo]

They played at Mile High, which had a much more expansive outfield than Coors Field .

remember that dirt the broncos played in 'til mid oct? <!-- / message -->

[BRONCCRUSHFAN]

Excellent post. I think the only thing you left out is the glaring lack of accountibility within the organization. No one's job is ever in danger no matter how badly they screw up. Clint Hurdle (he of the brilliant idea to make Shawn Chacon a closer one year after he was an All-Star as a starter) and Dan O'Dowd (too many instances to name, pick one) seem to be made of teflon and ownership is pretty indifferent about the situation so long as the team stays within their budget.

What really gets me is the fact that all they needed to do was listen to their ever-dwindling paying customers. The fans weren't and aren't expecting a perennial championship contender, just a team & front office that is committed to winning. They've been given neither and have responded accordingly, by staying away in droves. The way the Rockies organization went from being darlings in this town to a virtual afterthought is a testament to the inept management of the franchise.

Obviously, in lieu of recent events, throwing a ton of cash into your ball team doesn't always produce championship results. I just get tired of the fans having to pay for Dan O'Dowd's mistakes. It was he who signed Hampton, Lansing, Naegle, Walker, Wilson, Johnson, and Helton to those huge contracts, and the only one to live up to the bill is Helton. However, it is really not all his fault, he has done one thing right, he took a team with the worst farm system, and made them one of the best farm systems in MLB. There is where your teams are built, not throwing huge buckets of money at players who are has beens, never wases, or not the right fit (i.e Hampton was a number 3, and they gave him Ace money). This team was screwed up from the gitgo. I watched the expansion draft, and even the announcers stated that it appeared as if the Rox were going more for immediate success, where as the Marlins were going for future success. They have alot of talent in their farm system now, and Todd's toddlers that are on the field now, could develop into something special. I just hope that the constant losing will not take its toll on their young psyches. I don't know if this is ultimately the direction that they are going to take this team, but if they are I hope they stay the course with these kids in the field. Holliday, Barmes, Miles, Closser, Hawpe, and Atkins have the ability to develop into All Stars. This is actually the road the Rox should have taken from the beggining, and had their struggles while the honeymoon was still new.

[BRONCCRUSHFAN]

.

remember that dirt the broncos played in 'til mid oct? <!-- / message -->

Oh yeah. I also remember the Bears and the Zephyrs winning a ton of American Association Championships there. That's another thing that I think also kills the Rockies, is being an NL team. If they had been selected to play in the AL, and built their team correctly from the beggining (I lay some of the blame on Gephardt and McMorris as well), they would be alot more successful than they currently are. What the Rockies have done this year, is what they should have done from the expansion draft, drafted for long term success and the people of Denver would have responded much in the same way they responded to the Broncos in the mid 60's. However, they drafted in the expansion draft more mature players with MLB experience, and had some early success in 95'; which has become a curse for the Rockies now.

The Marlins, on the other hand, drafted for future success. They developed some young players, or used their farm system to trade for missing pieces. They won the world series, and then people couldn't believe they fire saled. But they never saw why they did it, that first world series team was an older team that was put together by way of trades. Then they struggled through a few years, developing some of their young kids, that ended up winning the second world series. Then they traded some of those veteran players or let them go to FA (which appeared like a mini fire sale), to boost their farm system (which is rated by some as second only to the Rox farm system now), and bring up some kids that were ready. Now the Marlins are tied for the Braves for first place. Its a formula for success, that was used by Atlanta, not long after Terry McGuirk and John Shuerholz took over, what 18 years ago?

My only hope is that if this is the plan and direction the Rox want to take (and I believe it is the right direction), that they stay with it. No more bad trades with Florida (Pierre and Counsell lead the list).

[TomServo]

i kinda disagree with the rox-marlins comparison. the 95-96 rox were the only team that could compete with the braves at the time.

and who could compete w/the braves the way their pitching would cheat---? God it sucked the way their pitching would get a strike call with a the ball half a foot out of the strike zone.

[BRONCCRUSHFAN]

And the league is broken.

League is seriously broken thanks to Steinbrenner. I'm so happy that his Yanks are in last place and have only won 11 games. I was sad to hear that his horse didn't win the derby. Knowing that Megalomaniac, he'll take it out and shoot it.

[TomServo]

Damn right the league is broke........ for years sportwriters and even some players bitched @ coors field and how easy it was to get homeruns there. all the while ignoring barry bonds and his amazing collasal transformation.

[BRONCCRUSHFAN]

i kinda disagree with the rox-marlins comparison. the 95-96 rox were the only team that could compete with the braves at the time.


I agree with you, the 95-96 Rox were the only team that could have competed with the Braves. Gallaraga doesn't strike out with the bases juiced, and the Rox are in the world series. However, from a long term success standpoint. The Marlins have been more successful than the Rox, and have developed more All Stars through their system, than the Rox have. Now the Rox are doing what they should have done from the beggining. The fans don't like it, because of all the different direction changes the club has made in the last 5 years. With the exception of Helton, nobody knows who the heck is on this team from year to year. I call it the Bickerstaff's Nuggets syndrome, show the fans up front we have no idea what the hell we are doing.

[BRONCCRUSHFAN]

Damn right the league is broke........ for years sportwriters and even some players bitched @ coors field and how easy it was to get homeruns there. all the while ignoring barry bonds and his amazing collasal transformation.

Oh you mean that a person's body can't actually get that big naturally? Oh how about his using a Maple Bat while he broke the single season HR record? Now with all the testing Barry is getting surgery on his broken down body. :wiggle:

[TomServo]

I call it the Bickerstaff's Nuggets syndrome, show the fans up front we have no idea what the hell we are doing. and the Nugs finally canned bernie. how long do we have to suffer o dowd?<!-- / message -->

[BRONCCRUSHFAN]

and the Nugs finally canned bernie. how long do we have to suffer o dowd?<!-- / message -->

I'm not defending O'Dowd, not in the least. His track record in my mind has more screw ups than pluses. The only thing that he (and it might be Kelli McGregor's doing) has done is boost our farm system. They could fire him tommorrow, and I would dance a good irish jig, just like when the Nugs canned Bickerstaff. The only problem is will the Rox get their version of Alan Bristow in return? Yikes!

[TomServo]

now i know lance armstrong got cancer and beat it. and i dont wish cancer on anyone. but if if anyone deserves it. just to even all the karma out. its barry bonds. with all the streroids in his body he'll be lucky just to enjoy his old age.

[BRONCCRUSHFAN]

Although I have to admit there is alot of similarities between O'Dowd and Bristow. Mainly the one where they both bitch about the high salaries that were negotiated by their predecessor. LOL.

[BRONCCRUSHFAN]

now i know lance armstrong got cancer and beat it. and i dont wish cancer on anyone. but if if anyone deserves it. just to even all the karma out. its barry bonds. with all the streroids in his body he'll be lucky just to enjoy his old age.

If he comes back next year he will be truly a shadow of his former self. My personal belief is that he is taking this season off, to allow his body to expell all the 'roids, which will shrink him down by 40lbs of muscle, and using his "knee" surgery as a cover. :wiggle:

[TomServo]

just seems to me damn o dowd didnt follow a simple formula.. win maybe 70% of homegames and maybe 50% of roadgames and just see what happens in post season..
Dunno. if it was up to me i'd load up on offense and F the league whatever they would say about coors field.
and as i said the bullpen back in the mid 90's was pretty good so its Not impossible.

[BRONCCRUSHFAN]

just seems to me damn o dowd didnt follow a simple formula.. win maybe 70% of homegames and maybe 50% of roadgames and just see what happens in post season..
Dunno. if it was up to me i'd load up on offense and F the league whatever they would say about coors field.
and as i said the bullpen back in the mid 90's was pretty good so its Not impossible.

Oh it's quite possible to pitch here in Denver. When the Bears and the Zephyrs were winning championship after championship here, we never heard about the altitude effect. Hell, Camden Yards and Minute Maid Park give up more dingers than Coors field, you just hear about it more because the media (especially that F*** Jim Rome) have made such a big deal about the altitude. Give me a power hitting 1st, 3rd basemen, Right and left fielders, and Catcher, with the rest of the position being contact hitters, a starting rotation that will keep me in ballgames, and a bullpen that just throws strikes, and you would have a championship team here in Denver.

As a matter of fact, here is a tad piece of trivia. Which manager has had the most success against the Rox in Coors field, and his pitching staff has had the lowest ERA? One hint, it is not Bobby Cox and the Braves.

[TomServo]

hmmmm dunno but doesnt randy johnson have one of the best w/l at coors?

[BRONCCRUSHFAN]

hmmmm dunno but doesnt randy johnson have one of the best w/l at coors?

Randy's had up and down games here, and he made no bones about his hatred of Coors field. No, it is Filipe Alou. His Expos teams used to come in here and kick the crap out of the Rox, and now his Giants teams are doing the same thing. He is also the only manager who hasn't complained about having to come into Coors field. Ironically, he was also a manager here in Denver when the Zephyrs were winning AA championships like every year.

[TomServo]

anyway.. all i want is a fun and competitive team to go to coors and watch again.

if i believe they can compete why cant the players?

if coors field is impossible to pitch in then we should win most games by 10 runs since its our park.

unlike basketball which i Rarely watch. baseball is still special since my boys are in little league. i wish the rox could be competitive so me and my boys could watch them but its no fun when they lose 4/5 games.

[BRONCCRUSHFAN]

anyway.. all i want is a fun and competitive team to go to coors and watch again.

if i believe they can compete why cant the players?

if coors field is impossible to pitch in then we should win most games by 10 runs since its our park.

unlike basketball which i Rarely watch. baseball is still special since my boys are in little league. i wish the rox could be competitive so me and my boys could watch them but its no fun when they lose 4/5 games.

I have been a Cubs fan my whole life, but I want the Rox to do well, just because they are the hometown team. I know they have it in them, and I really like some of these young kids. I just don't believe bringing up 12 rooks was the best way to endear yourselves to the locals, and it really sucks when your "MLB" team looks like nothing more than a AAA team, and a kid that just turned 20 is your best bullpen pitcher (which he hasn't given up a run at Coors yet).

[TomServo]

so i dont buy any of the crap @ the altitude. the rockies are just badly managed.
like i said just build a badass offense and hope for the best w/pitching. just stick w/the home grown pitching and go for the runs runs runs and hope the bullpen can hold a lead-the bigger-the better the odds.

[-Slap-]

hmmmm dunno but doesnt randy johnson have one of the best w/l at coors?

The Big Unit's career ERA in Coors is around 3.85 compared to 3.07 everywhere else. If the filthiest stuff in the game gets bumped up one earned run per nine innings, the average pitcher is going to fare much worse, and they do.

I shake my head when Rockies' fans try to minimize the park effects. They exist and we all have to accept them, even if we grind our teeth while moron talk show hosts with Napolean complexes harp about them endlessly. The only thing that pisses me off is when people try to diminish Helton's accomplishments. He would be putting up HOF numbers in any ballpark. Anyone who dismisses him because of Coors either, doesn't watch baseball, or shouldn't bother watching baseball because its beyond their understanding.

[-Slap-]

Jeff Francis is starting in Florida against Al Leiter and the Marlins this morning. Miguel Cabrera is murdering the ball right now, but the Rocks have gotta win another road game sometime.

[-Slap-]

^5 Barmes, Francis help top Marlins, end 10-game skid (http://www.sportsline.com/mlb/gamecenter/recap/MLB_20050508_COL@FLA) !Booya!

Sounds like an entertaining game. A three run inside-the-park homer for Barmes and a grand slam for Miles. Francis pitches 6 2/3 strong innings and the bullpen doesn't screw him over. The previously mentioned Juan Pierre went 5 for 5 with three stolen bases for the Marlins.

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Athletics/Games/2004/TeamCanada/Baseball/Francis/2004/08/10/francis250.jpg

[Breck Bronc]

^5 Barmes, Francis help top Marlins, end 10-game skid (http://www.sportsline.com/mlb/gamecenter/recap/MLB_20050508_COL@FLA) !Booya!

Sounds like an entertaining game. A three run inside-the-park homer for Barmes and a grand slam for Miles. Francis pitches 6 2/3 strong innings and the bullpen doesn't screw him over. The previously mentioned Juan Pierre went 5 for 5 with three stolen bases for the Marlins.

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Athletics/Games/2004/TeamCanada/Baseball/Francis/2004/08/10/francis250.jpgJuan Encarnacion made a terrible effort on Barmes's inside the park homer. He would have made the catch had he dove for the ball. Instead, Encarnacion barely stuck his glove out while running forward and let the ball go all the way to the wall in right field. Barmes, always a hustler, made it around the bases pretty quickly.

Clint Barmes has been by far the most encouraging thing in a horrible start to the season by the Rockies. He does all the little things well and gets hit by pitches at a Biggio-like rate. We all know he's not going to continue to hit over .400, but he has proven he can hit on the road and he can handle SS defensively. The only thing I would like to see is Barmes lay off on some of those pitches way out of the strike zone and take a few more walks. The added walks, in addition to his hitting ability and amount of times he gets hit by pitches, would create a run scoring force in front of Helton.

Aaron Miles hitting a grand slam is even more shocking than Giacomo winning the Kentucky Derby yesterday. He almost always hits weak grounders around the infield and has been and out making machine all year long. Even with the home run I hope he soon finds a seat on the bench to let someone else try and get on base for the top of the order.

Francis was solid for almost 7 complete innings. He still throws a few too many pitches to get guys out, but that's expected of a rookie. He pissed off Delgado after throwing high and tight to him with two strikes, then spun a nasty curve that the lefty weakly popped up. Francis looks like a gangly physics major, which he is, but he went toe to toe with Delgado and Cabrera like a man.

[-Slap-]

I like targeting baby faced killers in my roto leagues, but Francis' home park makes him an untouchable.

[Odysseus]

I miss the Zephyrs. You never heard anything about the Altitude when they played.

I stopped following the Rockies after Baylor left town. I wasn't high on Baylor but the Rockies just seemed to make one mistake after another after that. That ballpark is specatular and worth going to even if the team loses.

The Rockies are so bad a lot of the sports heads were talking up trading Helton out to a team that is winning so he would have a chance to be fully respected or earn a pennant.

I'm glad Vinnie Castillo got a chance to open up for the Nationals. What a story.

[Hogan11]

I'm glad Vinnie Castillo got a chance to open up for the Nationals. What a story.

The Nationals?? ack, cough, hack, spit....screw the Nationals!

.......now we return you to your regularly scheduled programming.

[Odysseus]

The Nationals?? ack, cough, hack, spit....screw the Nationals!

.......now we return you to your regularly scheduled programming.

LOL You don't like my cousin Vinnie?

[Hogan11]

LOL You don't like my cousin Vinnie?


Not that.....I don't approve of The Nationals.

Outside of the Sith Lord's Marlins, there is no other baseball franchise I despise more now.

[Odysseus]

O.K. I agree with you. Sith Lord Marlins...just don't shoot the dog!

[BRONCCRUSHFAN]

I shake my head when Rockies' fans try to minimize the park effects. They exist and we all have to accept them, even if we grind our teeth while moron talk show hosts with Napolean complexes harp about them endlessly. The only thing that pisses me off is when people try to diminish Helton's accomplishments. He would be putting up HOF numbers in any ballpark. Anyone who dismisses him because of Coors either, doesn't watch baseball, or shouldn't bother watching baseball because its beyond their understanding.

I don't minimize the park's effects one bit. They have the largest batter's eye in MLB, and how many cheesy homeruns have just sqeeked over the bullpen wall? The outfield is so expansive, that once O'Dowd sours this team on the people of Denver so much and they move to Portland, you could graze a couple head of cattle on it. The gaps are so big that you could drive a semi truck through them. With that being said the " moron talk show hosts with Napolean complexes " (I can only assume your talking about that stupid ****head Jim Rome) are completely wrong about Helton. His batting average in and away from Coors field are relatively the same, and he consistently hits the same amount of HRs away from Coors as he does at Coors field. The problem is that you have pussy pitchers like Maddux, Glavine, Johnson, and Schilling who have complained about the park and how it affects their precious ERA. Their all-star capital has allowed them to get stupid A$$es like the aformentioned Rome on their side and complaining about Coors Field. With that being said Coors Field makes going to baseball games fun. There is nothing that I hate more (and I know the "baseball purists" are going to fry me) than a 2-1 ballgame. Coors Field is a throwback to the glory days of baseball, when it was not uncommon for scores to be 8-7 or 11-9. Those kind of games are more fun to watch.

[Breck Bronc]

If nobody questions Sandy Koufax's stats during him dominant era in Dodgers Stadium after moving from Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum and Ebbets Field then nobody should question Helton's stats in Coors.

[Bronco LB 59]

Here's the future of the Colorado Rockies. He will be the organization's best offensive homegrown player since Helton.

When Ian Stewart is called up, Garrett Atkins will be sitting happy with his .320 lifetime batting average and will get moved to LF.

[-Slap-]

Looks like the Rockies have decided to give Byung-Hyun Kim a chance at starting a game today. Lucky Byunger pulled the scorching hot Atlanta Braves as his opponent. John Smoltz is scheduled to go for the Bravos. He's having back spasms, but he's not the type of guy to duck a start in Coors Field. More likely, he'll try to pitch through it, so the Rocks might have a chance to get to him.

http://images.art.com/images/products/large/10097000/10097813.jpg

[Breck Bronc]

Looks like the Rockies have decided to give Byung-Hyun Kim a chance at starting a game today. Lucky Byunger pulled the scorching hot Atlanta Braves as his opponent. John Smoltz is scheduled to go for the Bravos. He's having back spasms, but he's not the type of guy to duck a start in Coors Field. More likely, he'll try to pitch through it, so the Rocks might have a chance to get to him. 8-1 / The odds that Todd Helton becomes the first player in MLB history to charge the mound of his own pitcher, after Kim hits his 3rd Atlanta hitter in two innings to go along with his 7 walks.

It's raining pretty heavily in some parts of metro Denver, so we'll see if Kim even gets his chance to start. They'll do all they can to get this game in, though, since this is Atlanta's last trip to Colorado.

[Crushaholic]

It could be worse. The Royals manager quit because they suck.

[Breck Bronc]

Through 5 complete innings, Kim has somehow managed to only give up one run on an Andruw Jones home run. He might pitch one more inning. The heavy rain has probably kept several long outs from becoming home runs.

[bendog]

the rocks got killed, initially, because of the contracts to swift and ... ah geez the ex royal who then landed with the botox after rehabbing on denver's dime. Then, they let Galaraga and Weiss walk, rather than sucking it up and taking a loss financially, when McMorris was paying off his expansion bill at an unprecedented pace and drawing 3plus million. They could have put Helton in left and still have gotten Bichette's at bats and put Perez at 2nd.

Then there were the Leyland and Kile debacles, and giving walker a longterm extension when he was already wearing out. Then they gave the neagel and hampton deals. The effect of all that, with declining sales, made them not invest in the minor league system. From what I've read, the Monforts are attempting to remedy that. But it will take 5 years to really see results.

[-Slap-]

Jeff Francis was the beneficiary of 18 Rockies runs last night to move his record to 3-1 on the season. He allowed three earned runs in five innings. Francis improved to 4-0 with a 3.03 ERA in five career starts at Coors Field.

Pretty nice, but Francis has still got to cut way down on his walks or the longballs are going to kill him.

Garrett Atkins finally hit a home run last night, which gives him one (1) more on the season than 6'4", 235 pound slaphitter Matt Holliday. Meanwhile, Clint Barmes, possessed by the spirit of Dante Bichette perhaps, continues to hit like Ernie Banks at Coors Field, slamming his 6th and 7th homers of the season (all save one at home). Barmes is also batting an even .400 on the season, .458 in the friendly confines, but a more than respectable .333 on the road.