Winslow update: right knee "ruined"?

[SoCalBronco]

POSTED 1:43 p.m. EDT, May 5, 2005



BROWNS TO PURSUE WINSLOW BONUS?



We're picking up preliminary indications that the Browns "definitely" will attempt, eventually, to recoup a portion of the signing bonus paid to tight end Kellen Winslow for riding a motorcycle in breach of his contract.



The organization, we're told, feels badly for Winslow, and Winslow and his father, the Chargers Hall of Famer of the same name, are "devastated." Thus, the Browns are unlikely to pursue the full amount of their potential contractual recovery.



But as one league insider explained to us, the Browns need to do something in order to discourage the next guy browsing for crotch rockets to think twice.



Our prediction is that the Browns will offer to resolve the situation by retaining $2 million-plus due to Winslow on July 15 as the final installment of his $4.4 million option bonus. Under the terms of his contract, the team can seek to recover up to $9.4 million, and it looks to be an open-and-shut case.



As to the injuries Winslow suffered as a result of Sunday's accident, we're told that there's a "good chance" that Winslow's right knee is "ruined." No diagnosis is possible until the swelling subsides, and the fact that the swelling has been so extreme for so long suggests that there's a very serious problem with the joint.



For now, the Browns most likely will continue to lay low as to the money issue. It looks like, however, something will happen before owner Randy Lerner is due to write another check to K2 with seven zeroes in July.



If and/or when it's time for Winslow to answer for his decision to buy, own, and ride a motorcycle in blatant violation of his rookie contract, we believe that Winslow will say he didn't know that he was engaged in activities that placed his bonus money in jeopardy. And this will call into question whether his agents, Carl and Kevin Poston, properly 'splained to Winslow the relevant restrictions.



This assumes, of course, that the Postons even knew that the contract contained specific language prohibiting motorcycling, especially since they've admitted that they didn't read the contract extension signed in December 2003 by Redskins linebacker LaVar Arrington.



Either way, it's likely time for Carl and Kevin Poston to assess their overall financial status, because there's a good chance they'll be asked to make a rather large contribution to the Kellen Winslow post-NFL rehabilitation fund.

[elsid13]

Oh man, the kid was an idot, but it sound like he done. I wonder if he got anything out of college to fall back on.

[Mile High Shack]

but he's an f'n soldier...how could that happen!!!???

[elsid13]

but he's an f'n soldier...how could that happen!!!???

Because he an f'n idot too.

[SoCalBronco]

i hope that report isnt true. I think its just a regular ACL tear, out for the year. thats what everyone else has been reporting.

[SouthStndJunkie]

i hope that report isnt true. I think its just a regular ACL tear, out for the year. thats what everyone else has been reporting.

I agree. He may be a dummy and should have known better, but it would be a shame for his career to end before it really started.

SSJ

[RaiderH8r]

Because he an f'n idot too.
Two great posts right in a row.

But he's an f'n soldier...
Because he's an f'n idiot too.

AWESOME...couldn't have happened to a nicer guy.

This year's Ryan Leaf Award For Insurmountable Stupidity Goes To.....the f'n soldier.

[Mile High Shack]

I agree. He may be a dummy and should have known better, but it would be a shame for his career to end before it really started.

SSJ
I dunno about that, I don’t feel too sorry for him…….he shot his mouth off, acted like an idiot and did an idiot thing

He still has about 7 million dollars, I can’t feel sorry for him………

[Kaylore]

That's really awful in a sickening way. There are so many other people that do stupid stuff and their lives are ruined that you'd have to be blind and a complete moron to try something like this. You'd think after missing a whole season and thus a bunch of money on an injury last season he would've been more careful. If he's this stupid, he wouldn't have lasted long in the NFL anyway.

[SouthStndJunkie]

Two great posts right in a row.

But he's an f'n soldier...
Because he's an f'n idiot too.

AWESOME...couldn't have happened to a nicer guy.

This year's Ryan Leaf Award For Insurmountable Stupidity Goes To.....the f'n soldier.

Not sure why all the hate for Winslow. I am not a fan of his by any means, but I do not have spite for the guy. Please do not say it is because of the 'soldier' remarks. ESPN played that so many times that in got inbedded into your heads. Sure, it was an immature statement, but certainly not worthy of hate. The kid made a stupid mistake and hopped on a bike and acted like an idiot. I have a feeling most have been guilty of doing something foolish in their early 20's.

SSJ

[crazyhorse]

Career ending injuries aren't very funny. But that's just me.

It sounds like he was unaware the motorcycling clause was in his contract. Even then it is foolish not to know the contract perameters. Buying the bike was stupid.

Wrecking the bike is a tragedy. Reguardless who it is.

And you guys say I'm a prick. ???

[Bronco_Beerslug]

I dunno about that, I don’t feel too sorry for him…….he shot his mouth off, acted like an idiot and did an idiot thing

He still has about 7 million dollars, I can’t feel sorry for him………
Well, it's kinda sad from a football perspective. I'd rather see him either live up to his words on the field or fail on the field.

Most of these young guys are just big kids anyway.

[Rock Chalk]

Not sure why all the hate for Winslow. I am not a fan of his by any means, but I do not have spite for the guy. Please do not say it is because of the 'soldier' remarks. ESPN played that so many times that in got inbedded into your heads. Sure, it was an immature statement, but certainly not worthy of hate. The kid made a stupid mistake and hopped on a bike and acted like an idiot. I have a feeling most have been guilty of doing something foolish in their early 20's.

SSJ

How about because both him and daddy are racist then?

All the hate for mock because of his racism but its ok for the ****ing soljah because he is black?

**** that racist, I hope he dies.

[Mile High Shack]

Career ending injuries aren't very funny. But that's just me.

It sounds like he was unaware the motorcycling clause was in his contract. Even then it is foolish not to know the contract perameters. Buying the bike was stupid.

Wrecking the bike is a tragedy. Reguardless who it is.

And you guys say I'm a prick. ???
How is it a “tragedy” you are being a bit dramatic aren’t you?

Dude is set for life and never has to work again…and it’s tragic b/c he hurt his knee? His life isn’t in danger and retires at 22 as a millionaire…rough

[SouthStndJunkie]

I dunno about that, I don’t feel too sorry for him…….he shot his mouth off, acted like an idiot and did an idiot thing

He still has about 7 million dollars, I can’t feel sorry for him………

I never said I felt sorry for him. Anytime a person does not reach his or her potential in anything it is a shame though. That holds true for playing football, school, career etc...

SSJ

[Mile High Shack]

I never said I felt sorry for him. Anytime a person does not reach his or her potential in anything it is a shame though. That holds true for playing football, school, career etc...

SSJ
He can go play football and he can have my knee and I’ll take his money :)

[SouthStndJunkie]

How about because both him and daddy are racist then?

All the hate for mock because of his racism but its ok for the ****ing soljah because he is black?

**** that racist, I hope he dies.

Not even worth responding to.

SSJ

[SoCalBronco]

Not sure why all the hate for Winslow. I am not a fan of his by any means, but I do not have spite for the guy. Please do not say it is because of the 'soldier' remarks. ESPN played that so many times that in got inbedded into your heads. Sure, it was an immature statement, but certainly not worthy of hate. The kid made a stupid mistake and hopped on a bike and acted like an idiot. I have a feeling most have been guilty of doing something foolish in their early 20's.

SSJ

Rep.
Look he deserves to lose all that money for the upcoming season for his stupidity but i dont think he should lose his career. Oh well, the tests will decide it.

[RhymesayersDU]

Some of you people are freakin' idiots.

I'm sorry, but the kid says one stupid thing (as if nobody here has ever in their life said something stupid) and you guys wish him injury and all that. Get off your high horses and get a life.

With all that said, I have no compassion for Winslow OR, for that matter, Jayson Williams, the Bulls player who hurt himself bad on a motorcycle when his contract specifically said "no bikes." If you're contract says that, you gotta abide by it. If I was a Browns fan, I'd want them to take every last cent back they could, so they could spend it on other players. The Bulls organization, when Williams was done, actually bought out his contract. Morally, it was nice of them to do it, but if I was a Bulls fan, I'd be pissed they're spending that money when they could be spending it elsewhere.

If your contract says no bikes, stay off them. Hell, forget the contract. If your body is your meal ticket, don't do things that have a high risk to it, such as a motorcycle.

[Mile High Shack]

Some of you people are freakin' idiots.

I'm sorry, but the kid says one stupid thing (as if nobody here has ever in their life said something stupid) and you guys wish him injury and all that. Get off your high horses and get a life.

With all that said, I have no compassion for Winslow OR, for that matter, Jayson Williams, the Bulls player who hurt himself bad on a motorcycle when his contract specifically said "no bikes." If you're contract says that, you gotta abide by it. If I was a Browns fan, I'd want them to take every last cent back they could, so they could spend it on other players. The Bulls organization, when Williams was done, actually bought out his contract. Morally, it was nice of them to do it, but if I was a Bulls fan, I'd be pissed they're spending that money when they could be spending it elsewhere.

If your contract says no bikes, stay off them. Hell, forget the contract. If your body is your meal ticket, don't do things that have a high risk to it, such as a motorcycle.
I doubt anyone is wishing him an injury…well except Alec, but he hates everyone ;)

[SouthStndJunkie]

He can go play football and he can have my knee and I’ll take his money :)

Hard to believe you never went through life and never made a mistake. If you did, I bet you paid for it....just like Winslow is right now.

Jesus H Christ, you people need to have a little compassion.

SSJ

[SoCalBronco]

How about because both him and daddy are racist then?

All the hate for mock because of his racism but its ok for the ****ing soljah because he is black?

**** that racist, I hope he dies.

KW Sr. maybe, but how the **** is Kellen a racist? Where did you get that from?

[Mile High Shack]

Hard to believe you never went through life and never made a mistake. If you did, I bet you paid for it....just like Winslow is right now.

Jesus H Christ, you people need to have a little compassion.

SSJ

I don't have any compassion for a loud mouth jerk off with 7 million in his bank account

what a freakin' tragedy

now if he had a life threatening injury or was severly damaged, yeah I would then

but he has a torn acl and will live a normal life

[BroncoInferno]

KW Sr. maybe, but how the **** is Kellen a racist? Where did you get that from?

What did SR. do that was racist? I'm not saying he hasn't made any such comments, I'm just curious what they were. I'd never heard that.

[SouthStndJunkie]

I don't have any compassion for a loud mouth jerk off with 7 million in his bank account

what a freakin' tragedy

now if he had a life threatening injury or was severly damaged, yeah I would then

but he has a torn acl and will live a normal life

The guy has been in the hospital for several days....he is hurt pretty badly. They don't keep you in the hospital for several days anymore unless you are hurt pretty bad.

SSJ

[Breck Bronc]

KW Sr. maybe, but how the **** is Kellen a racist? Where did you get that from?Because Kellen is racist against his mother, who is white. He once made a comment to her about buying crackers from the grocery store and now they don't speak to each other.

[SoCalBronco]

What did SR. do that was racist? I'm not saying he hasn't made any such comments, I'm just curious what they were. I'd never heard that.

I dont remember details but he has a past of making inflammatory statements regarding race. He also wanted Kellen to go to a school where the head coach was black. Sr. chose Michigan State, Jr. chose Washington and was going to announce it on Fox Sports and when he right about ready to speak, Sr. cut him off and said no, your not ready yet and wouldnt let him on live TV, i remember that. I think he also hated Neuheisel regarding something that happened with the NFL players strike as well. The compromise was Miami because the Miami WR coach (and the guy who recruited him out of San Diego Scripps Ranch) was/is Charles Johnson, who is black.

[SoCalBronco]

Because Kellen is racist against his mother, who is white. He once made a comment to her about buying crackers from the grocery store and now they don't speak to each other.

oh, i didnt know that. I knew his mom was white but not about that incident. Interesting.

[BroncoInferno]

I dont remember details but he has a past of making inflammatory statements regarding race. He also wanted Kellen to go to a school where the head coach was black. Sr. chose Michigan State, Jr. chose Washington and was going to announce it on Fox Sports and when he right about ready to speak, Sr. cut him off and said no, your not ready yet and wouldnt let him on live TV, i remember that. I think he also hated Neuheisel regarding something that happened with the NFL players strike as well. The compromise was Miami because the Miami WR coach (and the guy who recruited him out of San Diego Scripps Ranch) was/is Charles Johnson, who is black.

Interesting. Thanks for the info. Don't think the kid should be blamed for the sins of the father. He's made one or two dumb comments, and getting on a motorcycle right after suffering a season ending injury is damn near catatonic--but I don't think he's done anything to warrant this strong reaction of hatred.

[Breck Bronc]

I dont remember details but he has a past of making inflammatory statements regarding race. He also wanted Kellen to go to a school where the head coach was black. Sr. chose Michigan State, Jr. chose Washington and was going to announce it on Fox Sports and when he right about ready to speak, Sr. cut him off and said no, your not ready yet and wouldnt let him on live TV, i remember that. I think he also hated Neuheisel regarding something that happened with the NFL players strike as well. The compromise was Miami because the Miami WR coach (and the guy who recruited him out of San Diego Scripps Ranch) was/is Charles Johnson, who is black.I forgive you SoCal, it's Curtis Johnson, not Charles. Also, Randy Shannon being the defensive coordinator swayed Winslow Sr. to allow Jr. to go to Miami, becuase he wanted at least one of the coordinators to be African-American if the head coach wasn't. He didn't like that Washington didn't have one black assistant coach.

--edit-- Also, SoCal, I should have made it clear that I was being sarcastic about the cracker incident, which I just made up. I don't know why people think Jr. is racist.

[SoCalBronco]

I forgive you SoCal, it's Curtis Johnson, not Charles. Also, Randy Shannon being the defensive coordinator swayed Winslow Sr. to allow Jr. to go to Miami, becuase he wanted at least one of the coordinators to be African-American if the head coach wasn't. He didn't like that Washington didn't have one black assistant coach.

Doh! Curtis, yes ofcourse. :hitself: I am not on my A game today, prolly cause i have my first of the last three school exams of my life in a few hours.

[DarkHorse30]

Not sure why all the hate for Winslow. I am not a fan of his by any means, but I do not have spite for the guy. Please do not say it is because of the 'soldier' remarks. ESPN played that so many times that in got inbedded into your heads. Sure, it was an immature statement, but certainly not worthy of hate. The kid made a stupid mistake and hopped on a bike and acted like an idiot. I have a feeling most have been guilty of doing something foolish in their early 20's.

SSJ

Good call. Anybody could have made a decision like Junior did, and have it bite him.

BUT.....when an NFL rook (and his dad) talk big and don't produce because of some poor decisions, then the rook deserves any bad press that turns his way. It's not like Jr. stumbled in a log-rolling contest in the Cleveland-lumberjack-o-lympics....he just messed up. And now he's in danger of no longer being "downtown kwJunior Brown".

Nobody would be dissing on Junior if he hadn't acted the fool BEFORE he messed up.

[crazyhorse]

How about because both him and daddy are racist then?

All the hate for mock because of his racism but its ok for the ****ing soljah because he is black?

**** that racist, I hope he dies.

Wow.

You are a dumb as I thought.

[broncos love]

Anybody see winlsow on espn riding his motorcycle right before he crashed. It was pretty cool him riding like a maniac on the survielence tape

[RaiderH8r]

How do you explain that to your kids? I was in the NFL once, a motorcycle ended my career before I could put in 5 games. The soldier is going to be hawking DVDs for Blockbuster. Probably not, just a thought though.

[SouthStndJunkie]

Good call. Anybody could have made a decision like Junior did, and have it bit him.

BUT.....when an NFL rook (and his dad) talk big and don't produce because of some poor decisions, then the rook deserves any bad press that turns his way. It's not like Jr. stumbled in a log-rolling contest in the Cleveland-lumberjack-o-lympics....he just messed up. And now he's in danger of no longer being "downtown kwJunior Brown".

Nobody would be dissing on Junior if he hadn't acted the fool BEFORE he messed up.

It's not his fault he broke his leg last year playing on special teams.

As for the soldier comment...big deal. It was a stupid thing to say...now people need to get over it. He never beat anyone down, he never dragged a girlfriend down a flight of stairs by her hair, he never got caught betting on games and fixing them, he never got caught taking roids or snorting coke. The guy made one single comment and it got played so much by the media that you will never forget it.

If I had too much time to waste, I would go back and look up which ones of you that are bashing Winslow are on Clarett's side now that he is a Bronco. Clarett made some mistakes and he paid for them and now Winslow is paying for his. I guess it is easy to beat a man when he is down.

SSJ

[ozomulsion]

Anybody else see the video? What he was doing was beyond stupid. It was just plain crazy! I do wish him a speedy recovery and hope he's near full speed next season. I feel sorry for the Browns as I don't know how ole Romeo will turn this disaster of a team around anytime soon.

[RaiderH8r]

It's not his fault he broke his leg last year playing on special teams.

As for the soldier comment...big deal. It was a stupid thing to say...now people need to get over it. He never beat anyone down, he never dragged a girlfriend down a flight of stairs by her hair, he never got caught betting on games and fixing them, he never got caught taking roids or snorting coke. The guy made one single comment and it got played so much by the media that you will never forget it.

If I had too much time to waste, I would go back and look up which ones of you that are bashing Winslow are on Clarett's side now that he is a Bronco. Clarett made some mistakes and he paid for them and now Winslow is paying for his. I guess it is easy to beat a man when he is down.

SSJ

But the soldier comment makes it so ripe for parody. He's a tool. I find it amusing. He's learning quickly and harshly that he is not as invinceable as his daddy tells him he is.

[SouthStndJunkie]

If the worst things he has done are call himself a soldier and ride a bike foolishly, then he is doing ok compared to where I was at when I was 22 or 23 years old.

SSJ

[broncos love]

I cant stand the winslows and could not care less if he ever returns to the nfl.

[FADERPROOF]

Marcus Pollard last year on Indianapolis' Super Bowl hopes: "We were this close last year to making the Super Bowl, and we didn't lose any soldiers(to free agency), so we have the same soldiers on our team this year as we did last year, and now we're ready to go to war this year."

Funny how no one ever brings that up, huh? That's just one example also, sicne Winslow made his soldier comments, I've hears and read hundreds of athletes using war terms and calling themselves warriors and soldiers, but because ESPN played Winslow using it 200 times, he gets the bad rap for it.

I still hope the best for Kellen, I know what he is capable of when he is healthy, and it would be a shame to never get to see that on the field.

[SoCalBronco]

Marcus Pollard last year on Indianapolis' Super Bowl hopes: "We were this close last year to making the Super Bowl, and we didn't lose any soldiers(to free agency), so we have the same soldiers on our team this year as we did last year, and now we're ready to go to war this year."

Funny how no one ever brings that up, huh? That's just one example also, sicne Winslow made his soldier comments, I've hears and read hundreds of athletes using war terms and calling themselves warriors and soldiers, but because ESPN played Winslow using it 200 times, he gets the bad rap for it.

I still hope the best for Kellen, I know what he is capable of when he is healthy, and it would be a shame to never get to see that on the field.

Somehow i get the feeling that this post never, ever would have come from you but for the last draft. Ha! Otherwise it prolly would have been something more along the lines of Alec's post.

[TheNextStep]

Career ending injuries aren't very funny. But that's just me.

It sounds like he was unaware the motorcycling clause was in his contract. Even then it is foolish not to know the contract perameters. Buying the bike was stupid.

Wrecking the bike is a tragedy. Reguardless who it is.

And you guys say I'm a prick. ???
His injury is in no way funny.

His personal stupidity is.

[FADERPROOF]

Somehow i get the feeling that this post never, ever would have come from you but for the last draft. Ha! Otherwise it prolly would have been something more along the lines of Alec's post.

Nah, I've saw what he did in the Fiesta Bowl among other Miami games and Kellen is one hell of a talent, even if that 101st pick didn't happen I'd still be hoping for the best because about my entire family are Browns fans so I hope the best for them.

And please, never compare my post to "along the lines of Alec", that's jsut insulting Ha!

[crazyhorse]

His injury is in no way funny.

His personal stupidity is.

Right on.

[Tredici]

Awww... It's so nice to see FadeFan and Cheffan share the love on a Bronco board.

Kinda brings a tear to my eye.

[DarkHorse30]

It's not his fault he broke his leg last year playing on special teams.

....The guy made one single comment and it got played so much by the media that you will never forget it.

If I had too much time to waste, I would go back and look up which ones of you that are bashing Winslow are on Clarett's side now that he is a Bronco. Clarett made some mistakes and he paid for them and now Winslow is paying for his. I guess it is easy to beat a man when he is down.

SSJ

I wasn't referring to Winslow's injury last year. Any player who gets hurt on the football field deserves all the sympathy they can get.

The problem with Jr., though, is that he missed most of his rookie year (AFTER he held out looking for Tony G money....and got it) after an injury and then before he can see if his injury is healed....he injures it again in a non-football related injury. How dumb can one guy be? Here is a player that the pundits kept saying will "revolutionize the TE position"....and Browns fans can't even see him play ONE season on the college legs that earned the rep.

I'm also not referencing Jr's "soldier" comment because I never heard it. To me, what he says means nothing. But what he did was beyond stupid. Why feel sorry for a kid that has everything handed to him......but forgets all that and flushes it down the crapper?

[Kaylore]

Awww... It's so nice to see FadeFan and Cheffan share the love on a Bronco board.

Kinda brings a tear to my eye.
I noticed that too. Thought it was funny.

[SouthStndJunkie]

I wasn't referring to Winslow's injury last year. Any player who gets hurt on the football field deserves all the sympathy they can get.

The problem with Jr., though, is that he missed most of his rookie year (AFTER he held out looking for Tony G money....and got it) after an injury and then before he can see if his injury is healed....he injures it again in a non-football related injury. How dumb can one guy be? Here is a player that the pundits kept saying will "revolutionize the TE position"....and Browns fans can't even see him play ONE season on the college legs that earned the rep.

I'm also not referencing Jr's "soldier" comment because I never heard it. To me, what he says means nothing. But what he did was beyond stupid. Why feel sorry for a kid that has everything handed to him......but forgets all that and flushes it down the crapper?

I am not asking anyone to feel sorry for the guy. I am calling the guys out who seem to have taken glee in his being injured seriously.

SSJ

[elsid13]

Awww... It's so nice to see FadeFan and Cheffan share the love on a Bronco board.

Kinda brings a tear to my eye.


That it the world is about to end, sell all your stocks and start to party like there no tomorrow.

[BritBronco Maniac]

So he did a stupid thing, so did Mo Clarett and he got a second chance

He doesn't deserve to lose his career over it, but more to the point if he never plays again fans lose the chance to see if he can fulfil his enormous potential and become one of the best TE's to play the game

[SouthStndJunkie]

So he did a stupid thing, so did Mo Clarett and he got a second chance

He doesn't deserve to lose his career over it, but more to the point if he never plays again fans lose the chance to see if he can fulfil his enormous potential and become one of the best TE's to play the game

Solid take.

SSJ

[-Slap-]

Hard to believe you never went through life and never made a mistake. If you did, I bet you paid for it....just like Winslow is right now.

Jesus H Christ, you people need to have a little compassion.

SSJ

Do we have any avatars of Smiley playing a little violin?

[-Slap-]

I'm sorry Kellen Winslow broke his knee again. I'm sorry it wasn't his neck.

I wish all the compassionate souls on this board could get together for a nice group hug.

Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww!

[-Slap-]

I still think this clown was looking for a way out before he failed to live up to his own lofty projections. He might have got his wish, too.

Hopefully Cleveland takes back every penny.

[SouthStndJunkie]

I'm sorry Kellen Winslow broke his knee again. I'm sorry it wasn't his neck.

I wish all the compassionate souls on this board could get together for a nice group hug.

Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww!

I am usually in agreement with you slap, but think you are off base on this one. Bad karma to applaud the misfortune of others.

SSJ

[-Slap-]

I am usually in agreement with you slap, but think you are off base on this one. Bad karma to applaud the misfortune of others.

SSJ

My karma's already ****ed, so I ain't sweating it.

[SouthStndJunkie]

My karma's already ****ed, so I ain't sweating it.

I can buy that...I have seen how you fare when betting on games.

I have no problem with the Browns collecting every dime from Winslow that he took from them.

I just think it is in poor taste to cheer serious injury like that. What Winslow said about being a soldier is miniscule compared to some of the crap other athletes say and do.

SSJ

[Sodak]

Here's what happened. KWII is a stupid, arrogant, immature boob who probably thought he was indestructable. Nobody could tell him anything he didn't already think he knew, or make him do anything the didn't want to do.

If the contract said no motorcycle riding, he should have been riding the bus with that much money at stake.

How 'bout them Browns?

[Hulamau]

Hey, I'm sorry the kid got busted up, but I have no sympathy for the kind of arrogance that both he and his dad shared in spades.

Any football player knows that you cant ride a pocket rocket with a big NFL contract on the line. What?... did they feed him stupid pills at Miami? No , they just spoon fed him on hype and the illusion of invincibility, and the idea that the rules dont apply to him it appears.

His career is likely shot, in any event which is too bad, and that is punishment far enough. However, for the Brown's and the rest of football's sake, and to set a clear example, they must take at least 2 million, if not more, so that every NFL team can hold a "K2 is a Numbskull, So Dont You Be One Two" day during rookie indoctrination each year.

Hopefully, the Poston's did screw up and didn't explain in detail what his contract entailed and he can make back some of that change from them. It would serve them right for all the shenanagns they pull every year.

[Maximus]

Ooooh Boy... I'll come back to this one later. KW Jr is an idiot but... Blowing up Sr's comments as racist I don't know Alec... I have to go back to the interview where he made the statements before I continue on this subject.

[-Slap-]

I can buy that...I have seen how you fare when betting on games.

I have no problem with the Browns collecting every dime from Winslow that he took from them.

I just think it is in poor taste to cheer serious injury like that. What Winslow said about being a soldier is miniscule compared to some of the crap other athletes say and do.

SSJ

I finished another year in the black and I swept the playoffs, so I guess that proves karma doesn't mean ****.

I love having some clown lecture me about compassion because I'm not in tears when another clown ****s himself up doing something stupid. I save my compassion for people who need and deserve it. Hundreds of people got into accidents this week. Lets all get weepy eyed over the famous one, though. Too goddamn funny.

[Taco John]

Why in the world this makes me sick to my stomach I can't understand. The guy is a dope! But I'm sick for him! Poor idiot! What a way to destroy everything you've worked your life for! Stunt motocycling!?

GOSH!

[TheManeMan]

Has anybody mentioned the fact that KW2 was watching a motorcycle stunt video before he went on his "joyride" at the local community college? That makes this whole situation a little laughable...He was imitating what he watched on that stunt video...to quote Bugs Bunny "What a maroon!"...

[Play2win]

I hate to say it, but, INSTANT KARMA...

You just don't go around treating other people like sh!t. I hope heals, both physically and mentally, but I hope he matures as well.

[-Slap-]

He was looking to get hurt. Now he has plenty of excuses when his production doesn't match his predictions. That sonofabitch was lucky to be drafted as highly as he was after his one touchdown senior season anyway. He should be grateful for whatever bonus money Cleveland is magnanimous enough to let him keep.

[-Slap-]

I almost feel sorry for the homeless children I see outside the shelter on Owens when I drive downtown to go to work each morning, but with real tragedies like Kellen Winslow Jr's to consider, I simply run out of tears.

[Maximus]

http://shinbone.home.att.net/winslow.2.htm

Here's one side of the story


On December 23rd, The Shinbone received the following e-mail from former San Diego Chargers' Hall of Fame tight end Kellen Winslow, in response to a column that had been critical of his decision to deny his son permission to attend the University of Washington:

********************

Kellen Winslow the First

A friend forwarded your story posted June 18, 2001 [Pigmented Pigskin: Washington too white for Winslow ]. While you are entitled to your opinion, I believe before stating an opinion you should do your research.

The story or editorial is filled with inaccurate statements, items taken out of context and bias beyond believe [sic].

My issue with Washington was their approach to recruiting my son. I have known Rick [Neuheisel] for a number of years and respect what he has done in coaching. However, I did not appreciate members of his staff attempts [sic] to recruit a 17 year old without dealing with his parents. Other schools came through the front door, Washington in my opinion tried the back door. Also at the time Washington did not have a wide receiver coach in place. Not knowing who would coach the receivers was a major concern. The list goes on but I have neither the time nor the inclination to educate you and your publication.

In conclusion, Miami was not a compromise, it was Kellen's first choice, and one I agreed with. His second choice was Washington. Mine was Michigan State.

The issue of race was mentioned and you and others latched onto "color" and failed, as in most cases, to report the entire story. So sad.

********************

In the interest of accuracy -- especially since that is what is being challenged here -- I must point out that anybody can set up an e-mail account under practically any name and address, and that I have not been able to contact Mr. Winslow to verify that he'd sent the letter. I have decided, however, that its authenticity is confirmed by the fact that he has voiced his main points of contention -- that the University of Miami had been his son's first choice, and that he disapproved of Washington coach Rick Neuheisel's recruiting methods -- on other occasions. I find it incomprehensible that anyone would bother to perpetrate an elaborate hoax just to write things that accurately represent some of Winslow's previous statements anyway.

If what this letter says is true, it would mean that I've done Winslow a gross injustice. If so little of what I've written is accurate, it amounts to nothing short of character assassination. Can this be? Let's take a look at the evidence.

"Miami was not a compromise"

We'll start with my "inaccurate" characterization of Washington as Kellen Jr.'s first choice. What I wrote was that "Winslow had been quietly prodding his son toward Michigan State, because its second-year head coach, Bobby Williams, is black" and that, "When Kellen Jr. chose Washington, coached by white former UCLA quarterback Rick Neuheisel, his father wouldn't let him go. A volatile argument erupted between the two, which wasn't settled until they compromised, by deciding instead on Miami."

If this is not true, then I am not the only one to have misunderstood. On August 31st, 2001, Ted Miller of the Seattle Post-Intelligencer wrote, "Kellen Winslow Jr. wanted to attend Washington. His father wanted him to go to Michigan State, where the head football coach (Bobby Williams) and athletic director (Merritt Norvell) are black. The compromise choice was Miami."

In a May 22nd, 2001 article, Wayne Drehs of ESPN.com wrote, "Three months ago, Kellen Jr. was arguing with his father that the University of Washington was for him. His father, the NFL Hall of Fame tight end of the same name, shot back that another school, Michigan State, was the place he should play his college football."

On November 20th, 2002, Jorge Milian, also of ESPN.com, wrote that "Kellen Jr. originally decided to attend Washington" but that "Winslow Sr. went on to say that he preferred that his son play at Michigan State, whose football coach was black." Milian later pointed out that "Miami, Winslow Jr.'s second choice, turned out to be a compromise both father and son could live with."

When the Winslows appeared on HBO's Real Sports with Bryant Gumbel in the fall of 2001, Kellen Jr. himself said of their disagreement, "He wanted me to go to Michigan State. He doesn't want me to go to Washington." James Brown, the reporter who interviewed them for the segment, then explained, "That's because Michigan State's Bobby Williams is one of five African-American head coaches in the game, and Michigan State also has one of the only black athletic directors." Kellen Jr. later lamented that, after his father's refusal to let him go to Washington, he thought, "There's no way out. I just gotta choose Michigan State."

Why Winslow would even bother disputing this point is bizarre, because if the facts weren't as I presented them, there would have been no story in the first place. If Miami had been both his and his son's preferred school, Kellen Jr. would have announced on FoxSportsNet that he was going to play there, and his father would have happily signed the letter of intent. The end.

But Kellen Sr. explained in an interview with ESPN's Dan Patrick that his son had chosen Miami before deciding on Washington. "When he came back from the University of Miami, from his recruiting trip in early January, he said to me, 'I'm going to the University of Miami.' I said okay, but, let's don't make that announcement today. Let's wait until the signing date. So Miami was his first choice ... and Butch Davis, who's now in Cleveland ... when Butch left, Washington came back into the leader. So Miami was his original choice of where he wanted to go."

By Winslow's own explanation to Patrick, Washington became Kellen Jr.'s first choice, once Davis left Miami to coach the Cleveland Browns. That was where things stood when he was ready to announce his decision. To state that Miami was a compromise, after Kellen Sr. had already taken Washington off the table, is plainly, objectively true.

Neuheisel's "back door" recruiting

Rick Neuheisel has often been criticized for his recruiting methods. He's even been penalized by the NCAA for recruiting violations, and censured by the ethics committee of the American Football Coaches Association. Was Kellen Sr.'s rejection of Washington due to Neuheisel's attempts to circumvent him while recruiting his son? The Winslows' Real Sports appearance indicated that this was indeed a concern.

"Winslow Sr. didn't like the way Washington's head coach Rick Neuheisel and his staff recruited his son," narrator James Brown said. "He felt that Washington had tried to go around him, and to Kellen Sr., a lawyer and former sports agent, that was not the right way to do business." Then, however, Brown asked Winslow, "Even if they had gone about it the right way, are you satisfied that they met the criteria?"

"I think they fell short," Winslow said. "When I talked to the University of Washington about strong, male role models of color for my son, they talked to me about a guy in the department of sociology. I'd like for somebody of color to be in that small circle that makes the decisions, and telling me there's somebody in the department of sociology, they're not in that small circle."

Even in that statement, Winslow admitted that the way Neuheisel approached his son was not a factor in his decision; he would have refused to sign the letter of intent no matter how the recruiting process was handled. As for those "small circle" remarks, it might be instructive to recall some of Winslow's words from Canton, where he made what has got to be the angriest Hall of Fame induction speech in the history of sports. Real Sports excerpted a clip in which he presented a hypothetical discussion between a white football coach and a black recruit.

"'Son, we'd really like for you to play for State U. We have a fine academic program, and a winning tradition, and it's close to home, so your folks can see you play a lot.' -- Player to coach -- 'That sounds great, but it bothers me that there are only two African-American coaches on your staff, and neither one of them is the offensive or defensive coordinator.' With these few words, African-American athletes can begin to open doors of opportunities that for whatever reason were once closed to African-Americans."

In his Real Sports interview, Winslow explained to Brown that, "I wrote that speech in 1995 with him [Kellen Jr.] in mind. I was speaking not only to the world, but I was speaking to him, also."

In my previous column, I noted, "Washington has ten assistant coaches, two of whom are black. Miami has three black assistants, among a staff of eleven." Winslow now points out to me that Washington did not have a receivers coach at the time. It was important to him that Miami receivers coach Curtis Johnson was black. Do you suppose that Winslow might have had a little advice for Neuheisel, on what to do about that coaching vacancy?

Neuheisel hasn't become one of the nation's most successful college football coaches by being an idiot. He was perfectly aware that Winslow, rightfully, had the final say over any decision his seventeen year-old son made. It would have defied logic for him to try to cut Kellen Sr. out of the process, unless he'd already become convinced that any meetings with him would be counterproductive. Considering the obstinacy reflected by Winslow's own account of his dealings with the university, it may be that Neuheisel figured his only chance was to go directly to Kellen Jr., and let him be the one to try to persuade his father.

"Race was mentioned"

The passive acknowledgment that "race was mentioned" doesn't even begin to indicate the issue's centrality to Winslow's actions. Ted Miller wrote in a piece from February 14th, 2001 that "Winslow said he brought up race with coaches trying to win his son's affections. He said it made many of them uncomfortable." The source of their discomfort is easy to see, from the accusatory manner in which Winslow introduces the subject.

According to Wayne Drehs' article, Winslow had given his son the following advice. "I told him to take a look around. Thumb through the media guides and see how far you have to turn before you get to a person of color. And if you don't see people that look like you, there's a problem. There has to be some reason behind it." Kellen Jr. has reluctantly accepted that argument. "It wasn't as big of a factor to me as my father," he said, as quoted earlier in the same story. "But you need to see people in positions of high authority of the same color, of the same race as yourself."

Winslow has given this same advice to the pros. A May 21st, 2001 editorial by ESPN.com's Jim Caple quotes him instructing that, "My voice falls mute because my playing days are over. I have no power. ... Now, a player who is a free agent, does he have power? Oh, yeah. If a free agent walked around when he visited with a new team and said, 'Where are the people who look like me?' you would see change."

When Kellen Jr. became one of the most sought-after recruits in America, Kellen Sr. reacquired this power, through his authority over his son's decision. Imagine him approaching the University of Washington, already aware that it employs two black assistant coaches -- the very number he deemed insufficient in his Hall of Fame speech -- and demanding, "Where are the people who look like me?" Short of allowing the parents of recruits to determine who's on the coaching staff, a move that would be certain to produce anarchy within the program, is there any conceivable answer Rick Neuheisel could possibly give, which Winslow would find acceptable?

It does not capture the truth of the controversy to say that " the issue of race was mentioned," as if it were injected into the story by a detached observer. It was Kellen Winslow Sr. who mentioned race, repeatedly and proudly, as his motivation. I sincerely doubt that he has complained about the accuracy of the pieces done by HBO and ESPN.com, which also characterized his decision as racially motivated. The difference is that they hailed the story as a positive social development. I did not. I can't help but wonder if this is where he sees the inaccuracies.

[Taco John]

You've heard that Javon isn't getting paid right Slap?

[Taco John]

There there... Let it all out. No need to hold it in.

[-Slap-]

You've heard that Javon isn't getting paid right Slap?

That's his problem. Javon Walker could live forever or die tomorrow and it wouldn't interrupt the flow of my day one way or the other. I'm just happy we don't have any holdouts this year.

knock wood

[watermock]

How about because both him and daddy are racist then?

All the hate for mock because of his racism but its ok for the ****ing soljah because he is black?

**** that racist, I hope he dies.

I'm not a racist, I pull that crap because I rattle the cage of the Parrot. My best friends in college were a black, a jew, and an asian. thwack

I never did make many Persian friends tho. They stunk in the elevator.

I know it's horrible, but it's kinda fun to push the buttons.

I have set everything off the table while we do the Bush Crusades.

[Maximus]

A racial divide between father and son | From www.rlrassociates.net/clients/winslow-2.html

By Wayne Drehs


While his classmates spent spring break lounging on the couch and sleeping 'til noon, Kellen Winslow Jr. traveled to Miami, Fla. for a little self-assurance.

There, he pretended like it was August, like he was already playing football for the Miami Hurricanes. He lifted weights. He watched film. He ate with his future teammates - anything to get a feel for what to expect this fall.

He came away certain that Miami was the place for him. "I feel at home there," he said.

Things weren't always so clear. Three months ago, Kellen Jr. was arguing with his father that the University of Washington was for him. His father, the NFL Hall of Fame tight end of the same name, shot back that another school, Michigan State, was the place he should play his college football.

As it turned out, it looks like they were both wrong. And although the final outcome has elicited smiles from both father and son, the circuitous path that brought Kellen Jr. to Coral Gables was anything but pleasant.

There was father asking son to consider the racial makeup of the coaching staffs and universities he wanted to play for. There was father refusing to sign son's letter of intent to Washington. There was a canceled live television appearance, on which Kellen Jr. was supposed to announce his college intentions. And there were a handful of heated arguments.

"Oh yeah, it got really frustrating," Kellen Jr. now says. "It was very hard. But I tried not to let it get to me. I just concentrated on school and basketball season so it couldn't affect my everyday life."

But it wasn't easy. Kellen Sr., who made waves during his Pro Football Hall of Fame induction speech in 1995 when he blasted the NFL for its lack of minority hirings, said he was trying to make a socially significant point. He wanted to make sure that - all things being equal - his son would consider a school where minorities were in a position of authority, be it on the coaching staff or in the athletics department.

"What type of father would I be, to know what I know, to go what I've gone through and not discuss these things with my child?" he said. "I'd be the worst father in the world. Race is an important issue in this country and you're almost burying your head in the sand if you don't talk to your children about it. It's denial."

The story was well documented in the Pacific Northwest, where Husky backers felt spurned by the family's sudden change of heart. The controversial minority issue also turned heads, especially considering that Washington boasts of its athletics director, who is female, and a pair of assistant coaches, who are black.

But elsewhere, few paid much attention. The storied push-pull relationship between father and son did not surface. Its social significance was missing in the transactions of the daily sports page.

"The typical minority kid doesn't have a father like Kellen's to help him realize all these things," said Bob Minnix, president of the Black Coaches Association and an associate athletics director at Florida State. "It's just a question that doesn't come up that often. And yet it's a very important one."

'We chewed it up pretty good'

With Kellen Jr. set on Washington and Kellen Sr. set against it, there was tension throughout the final weeks of the recruiting process. It finally boiled over the night before national signing day, when the two got into a heated argument. The next night, the two were scheduled to appear live on Fox Sports Net, where Kellen Jr. would make public his college intentions. The show had been hyped for weeks. Most everyone expected the answer to be Washington.

But the night before, the two argued and Kellen Sr. refused to sign his son's letter of intent. Since a legal guardian must sign all national letters of intent when a recruit is younger than 21 years old, Kellen Jr. couldn't proceed without his father's permission. "We chewed it up pretty good," said Kellen Jr., who will celebrate his 18th birthday on July 21. "He wasn't going to sign the papers. And I asked, 'Why? Why this? Why that? You have to let me go. This is my decision; it isn't your decision.'

"He said, 'I know it's your decision, but you're still immature about this and you don't know what's going to happen at Washington. I don't trust them.'"

Kellen Jr. says he got about two hours of sleep that night, still unsure what signing day and the live television appearance would bring.

The next day, in a room to the side of the show's set, Kellen Jr., unsigned letter-of-intent in hand, waited to tell everyone he was going to Washington. But it wasn't to be. Kellen Sr. then announced the family needed more time to decide. That sparked more debate.

"We went at it," Kellen Jr. said. "I was begging him to sign the papers because I really wanted to go to Washington. But it didn't work out. We had to postpone everything because we couldn't agree."

Kellen Sr.'s take: "I told him, 'Kellen, I don't feel comfortable. If I'm being a bad father by telling you this before you're supposed to go on national television, so be it. But I don't feel comfortable at this point."

The drastic turn of events, in which Kellen Jr. went from destined for Washington to undecided almost overnight stunned many, including John King, Kellen Jr.'s basketball coach and a football assistant at Scripps Ranch High School in San Diego.

"I was as shocked as anybody," King said. "I thought he was going to Washington for sure. He wanted to sign. He wanted it over with. But as an educated parent, Kellen Sr. saw that a lot of recruiting was 'Hurry up, hurry up, you've got to make your decision today.' And Kellen Sr. said, 'Wait a minute. We don't have to do anything today.' He wanted to wait until they were both comfortable."

The aftermath

The moment the Fox spot was canceled, rumors began to swirl. Some critics, aware of the race issue, suggested Kellen Sr. was taking advantage of his son for his own political gain. The San Diego Union-Tribune reported that the Winslows were concerned Husky coach Rick Neuheisel was soon leaving for the NFL. And other newspapers suggested Kellen Sr. held a grudge because Neuheisel was a replacement player during the 1987 NFL player's strike.

"It was a complete loss of focus and totally off-base," Kellen Sr. said. "The entire time, my focus was on Kellen Jr."

Kellen Sr. said he was acting like any other good father -- making sure his son was thorough in his search for a college. After all, Kellen Jr. has said he wants to be a coach when his playing days are over. His dad wanted him to play for a school that would give him the best opportunity to someday return as a coach.

"I told him to take a look around," Kellen Sr. said. "Thumb through the media guides and see how far you have to turn before you get to a person of color. And if you don't see people that look like you, there's a problem. There has to be some reason behind it."

Still, it wasn't easy for Kellen Jr. to understand. He looks back now and says he was naïve, unaware of the bigger picture. Eventually, he came around and trusted his father's instincts.

"I thought about it and asked myself, 'Why doesn't he want me to go to Washington?' I decided to just put my faith in him and my trust in him. He's been there. He knows what's up."

Neuheisel would say only, "I have nothing but positive things to say about the Winslow family and we wish Kellen Jr. all the success at Miami."
Deciding on Miami

As the Winslows' search continued, it became clearer that Miami, a school that Kellen Jr. had privately liked since a January visit, was the right choice. It had been Kellen Jr.'s second choice all along and Kellen Sr. liked the hard-nosed coaching style of assistant Charles Johnson, who is black. Kellen Sr. was impressed that Johnson, who would potentially be Kellen Jr.'s position coach, was the man recruiting his son.

"CJ is an old-school coach that takes nothing from his players," said Kellen Sr., whose tight end coach at the University of Missouri, Curtis Jones, was black. "He's a guy who will chastise them, love them, and they will respond. He tells it like it is."

But Miami was going through some uncertainty of its own, with Butch Davis leaving the school to become the Cleveland Browns' head coach. To smooth the transition, Larry Coker, who replaced Davis, joined Johnson in hopes of maintaining a strong relationship with the Winslows.

"We never felt like he was ours, but we always felt we had a chance," Coker said. "So until they called us to tell us he wasn't coming, we stayed positive."

And one week after signing day, one week after the Winslows' tension-filled argument over Washington, father and son happily agreed on Miami.

Lessons learned

Now, four months later, Kellen Jr. said he looks back and understands what his father was trying to do. The entire process, he notes, has brought the two closer.

"I didn't know what was going on, there was just all this hype," Kellen Jr. said. "But he helped me see things in a bigger aspect. It opened my horizons and I matured a lot.

"Now, we talk more. We talk about things we never did before, like how I have to put my trust in him. And how he's going to guide me and put me under his wings."

And that's all Kellen Sr. said he was trying to do through this entire process - help his son see the light, no matter how blinding it may have been.

"What I did I did mostly as a father concerned for his son," he said. "My motive behind it was to keep him from looking at things through rose-colored glasses. It was a lesson in more than football. It was a lesson in life."

And if not for that lesson, Kellen Jr. knows his life this fall would be drastically different.

"I dodged a bullet," he said shortly after his spring visit to Coral Gables. "I'm sure I would have been happy (at Washington or Michigan State), but not as happy as I am now."

[ozomulsion]

I almost feel sorry for the homeless children I see outside the shelter on Owens when I drive downtown to go to work each morning, but with real tragedies like Kellen Winslow Jr's to consider, I simply run out of tears.

That's what I'm talking about. Who cares about some stupid kids who can't play football.

[-Slap-]

That's what I'm talking about. Who cares about some stupid kids who can't play football.

Certainly not our Mayor.

[SouthStndJunkie]

I finished another year in the black and I swept the playoffs, so I guess that proves karma doesn't mean ****.

I love having some clown lecture me about compassion because I'm not in tears when another clown ****s himself up doing something stupid. I save my compassion for people who need and deserve it. Hundreds of people got into accidents this week. Lets all get weepy eyed over the famous one, though. Too goddamn funny.

Interesting you calling me a clown....because you agree with 99% of my takes according to my rep from you. Never once did I say I felt sorry for him, never once did I say I liked him, but to be happy about serious injury is pretty damn stupid in my book. That makes you the clown in this instance.

Everytime I see your posted bets it seems as if you are losing....if you are making money gambling it is only enough buy a loaf of bread here and there. You fashion yourself as a Sam Rothstein, but I get the feeling Vegas takes about 75% of your take home to be honest with you.

SSJ

[TheNextStep]

I'm not saying anybody should feel sympathy for the kid. I have no problems with somebody saying, "Man, what a f***ing idiot!" All I'm saying is that I don't agree with "HA HA HA! I hope he never walks again" kind of stuff.

[SouthStndJunkie]

I'm not saying anybody should feel sympathy for the kid. I have no problems with somebody saying, "Man, what a f***ing idiot!" All I'm saying is that I don't agree with "HA HA HA! I hope he never walks again" kind of stuff.

That is my point exactly. Hell, I posted funny pics of him to make light of the situation, but I hope the guy does not die and I hope he walks again unlike the opinion of some of the Mane's finest.

Where slap gets off calling me a clown for having that opinion is beside me. Vegas must have denied him extended credit for the NBA Playoffs or creditors took away his car. He is actually one of my top few posters on this board, but him calling me a clown for not wishing death or serious injury on someone makes him look like a friggin tool.

SSJ

[Spider]

Bummer about Jr's Knee but he put himself in that position .. Elway had a no skiing clause in his Contract ....... Elway Never hurt himself Skiing ( allthough I suspect he did Ski ;D ) K.W.II acted the fool , now he has to pay the price ........

[watermock]

Give me one reason why I should care about this asshole.

He holds out with the Postons, who screwed up his contract anyway, then they don't make it clear to him he can go be a foo'. He breaks his leg, has two surguries on it and buys a crotch rocket and rides with some trick bunch of riders?

You can't even make this stuff up. I hope he recovers, but sheesh, he castrated himself allready. The OM didn't do it.

[TheNextStep]

Give me one reason why I should care about this asshole.

He holds out with the Postons, who screwed up his contract anyway, then they don't make it clear to him he can go be a foo'. He breaks his leg, has two surguries on it and buys a crotch rocket and rides with some trick bunch of riders?

You can't even make this stuff up. I hope he recovers, but sheesh, he castrated himself allready. The OM didn't do it.

You shouldn't care about him, per se, and, yes, he's a stupid asshole. That said, I would just think that some natural human compassion would kick in when you hear that the kid is really, really f***ed up and his knee will never be the same. Maybe that's just me. I don't dance on graves either.

The guy's an arrogant douchebag who has an overblown sense of entitlement and not a lick of common f***ing sense.

So was I at his age. I hope the little dickhead comes out of this okay.

[SouthStndJunkie]

Give me one reason why I should care about this asshole.

He holds out with the Postons, who screwed up his contract anyway, then they don't make it clear to him he can go be a foo'. He breaks his leg, has two surguries on it and buys a crotch rocket and rides with some trick bunch of riders?

You can't even make this stuff up. I hope he recovers, but sheesh, he castrated himself allready. The OM didn't do it.

You should not care about him. I will not lose one ounce of sleep thinking about Winslow. You stated you hoped he recovered...that is good enough for me. I am pointing out the guys that hope he does not recover or wish he would have died in the accident.

Winslow put himself in this hole...he and only he dug the hole. He has no one to blame, but sheesh, to wish him long-term injury or death shows no class.

SSJ

[DBroncos4life]

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y174/SameOldRutgers/winslow_knevil_owned_250K.gif

[DBroncos4life]

If I was Edwards I would buy a bubble and keep my head on straight. Only the Bengals have worse luck with 1st round picks. I do feel for KW II some though. He is young and I wish no harm on anyone even if they say foolish things from time to time.

[watermock]

The OM shows no mercy. Hell, Taco wants Plummer strung up.

[Taco John]

Not strung up... But I want us to work towards finding the next guy. He is what he is...

[Rascal]

To bad for him if his knee is ruined...that's gotta suck. He will be alright though he got enough money to live modestly for the rest of his life without working. Feel sorry for the Browns though...well kinda.

What I honestly hope to God that everyone takes from this is the following: **** the Postons and stay the hell away from them.

[wabbit]

I wasn't aware that the prognosis was so grim...maybe these are just rumors at this stage.

I know my knee swells up the size of a grapefruit on a fairly regular basis with out catastrophic consequences...then again, I don't play football for a living; running and pounding on the joint every day.

I hope the kid can play. At this point I feel real sympathy for the Browns & their fans...jiminey crickets.

[-Slap-]

That is my point exactly. Hell, I posted funny pics of him to make light of the situation, but I hope the guy does not die and I hope he walks again unlike the opinion of some of the Mane's finest.

Where slap gets off calling me a clown for having that opinion is beside me. Vegas must have denied him extended credit for the NBA Playoffs or creditors took away his car. He is actually one of my top few posters on this board, but him calling me a clown for not wishing death or serious injury on someone makes him look like a friggin tool.

SSJ

I could give a rat's ass about the stupid mother****er. I just have to laugh at all the crocodile tears about some arrogant jackass just because he's famous. What a highly evolved fellow SSJ must be. He's able to laugh at this kid's misfortune, but deep down he's pulling for him. God, that's touching.

[-Slap-]

Everytime I see your posted bets it seems as if you are losing....if you are making money gambling it is only enough buy a loaf of bread here and there. You fashion yourself as a Sam Rothstein, but I get the feeling Vegas takes about 75% of your take home to be honest with you.

SSJ

Believe what you want, groupie. I'll talk about my plays win or lose. Guys like you run around beating your chest when you cover and you're quiet as a ****ing churchmouse when you lose.

[watermock]

Sounds like Slappy had a bad night at the sportsbook.

Try boxing a quinella on the Derby... :pigsfly:

[SouthStndJunkie]

Believe what you want, groupie. I'll talk about my plays win or lose. Guys like you run around beating your chest when you cover and you're quiet as a ****ing churchmouse when you lose.

That is funny...coming from the mouth of the biggest strawberry in Vegas.

SSJ

[Old Dude]

I wasn't aware that the prognosis was so grim...maybe these are just rumors at this stage.
....


I agree. I don't know how much you can tell from the swelling alone. I haven't really heard anything definitive yet. I imagine the Browns fans have just learned over time to always expect the worst.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

I agree. I don't know how much you can tell from the swelling alone. I haven't really heard anything definitive yet. I imagine the Browns fans have just learned over time to always expect the worst.
Nope, Clayton said last night the Browns don't believe he'll play this year so they know what's wrong with his knee. I'm sure x-rays and a MRI were done.

[SouthStndJunkie]

I agree. I don't know how much you can tell from the swelling alone. I haven't really heard anything definitive yet. I imagine the Browns fans have just learned over time to always expect the worst.

A lot of the Browns fans I know are crushed. They were looking at a pretty decent offense next year and Winslow was a very big part of that. Improved guards, a servicable vet in Dilfer, Antonio Bryant, Braylon Edwards, Denny Northcutt, and Andre Davis at WR and Winslow at TE. Suggs, Droughns, and William Green at RB. That is quite an improvement from last year. Winslow was supposed to be the guy that opened things up for them.

SSJ

[Mile High Shack]

A lot of the Browns fans I know are crushed. They were looking at a pretty decent offense next year and Winslow was a very big part of that. Improved guards, a servicable vet in Dilfer, Antonio Bryant, Braylon Edwards, Denny Northcutt, and Andre Davis at WR and Winslow at TE. Suggs, Droughns, and William Green at RB. That is quite an improvement from last year. Winslow was supposed to be the guy that opened things up for them.

SSJ

I'm truly heart broken

[TheNextStep]

Nope, Clayton said last night the Browns don't believe he'll play this year so they know what's wrong with his knee. I'm sure x-rays and a MRI were done.

Everything that I've read says that the swelling is so bad that an MRI cannot be done yet. The worry is that usually when there is that type of swelling, it's a blown ACL... they just have to wait for the swelling to go down so they can do the MRI to confirm it.

There's no credible source because, honestly, I've read so many freakin' Winslow stories that there's no way in hell I'm wading through them all to find the right one to link...

[Tredici]

Everything that I've read says that the swelling is so bad that an MRI cannot be done yet. The worry is that usually when there is that type of swelling, it's a blown ACL... they just have to wait for the swelling to go down so they can do the MRI to confirm it.

There's no credible source because, honestly, I've read so many freakin' Winslow stories that there's no way in hell I'm wading through them all to find the right one to link...

Knowing Sr. the family is going to keep it close to the vest, anyway. I imagine any sharing of Jrs condition will be strictly on a need to know basis and even that will be done grudgingly.

[PatsWin2002]

From ProFootballTalk.com:

http://www.profootballtalk.com/scoot.jpg
What Evel Kellnievel wishes he had been riding.

[PatsWin2002]

And since we're laughing at the Browns anyway....... :)

http://media2.big-boys.com/files/brownfan.wmv

[fontaine]

And since we're laughing at the Browns anyway....... :)

http://media2.big-boys.com/files/brownfan.wmv

Damn, that's harsh. Didn't even give it the courtesy of a reach around.

[Old Dude]

The need to go back to the elf motif:

http://home.neo.rr.com/cantonbbackers/elf2.gif

[Old Dude]

Ghouls:

http://www.cleveland.com/sports/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/sports/1115372226290570.xml

Trashed bike another's treasure
Entrepreneurs auctioning debris from Winslow's motorcycle online
Friday, May 06, 2005
Dennis Manoloff
Plain Dealer Reporter
Capitalism in the Internet age is constantly taking new forms.

Someone using the e-mail identification "goatmeat420" heard about Kellen Winslow Jr.'s motorcycle accident Sunday night and saw dollar signs.

Goatmeat420 apparently visited the Tri-C Corporate College parking lot in Westlake where the Browns tight end had crashed into a curb. Goatmeat420 claimed to have found pieces of Winslow's motorcycle, as well as the tag from his coat (as far as we know), and turned them into opportunity.

The collection of debris is on sale on eBay. As of 10 p.m. Thursday evening, while Winslow remained in the hospital recovering, 36 bids had been registered, with a high of $127.61. The listing ends Wednesday.

Two other listings offered debris purportedly from Winslow's motorcycle, and spotted earlier Thursday on the Internet was the shrub, or mini-tree, that Winslow uprooted in the accident. By midafternoon, however, the shrub had disappeared from the cyberspace sales department, presumably because it is property of Tri-C Corporate College.

Goatmeat420 wrote on eBay: "If I was interested in this kind of stuff, I know someone else may be, as well. So here is your chance to own a piece of history from what may be a future Hall of Famer's career."

The debris includes a brake fluid cap.

Goatmeat420 responded by e-mail to The Plain Dealer's request for a phone interview, stating the request would be taken into consideration.

Evidently, goatmeat420 has been busy handling e-mails concerning his venture. Among those posted on the Web site, in Q-and-A format, were:

Q: . . . I give you credit for coming up with a great auction idea.

A: I am getting mixed feedback on this auction. Let me just say that I appreciate all the support I've been given, and I am just as open to answer any and all questions as long as they are asked in an appropriate manner. Again, I'd like to thank everyone for your interest so far.

Q: I hope he sues you for selling his personal property.

A: If Mr. Winslow were to contact me himself, I would have no problem getting his personal property back to him.

Q: Are you donating 50 percent of the proceeds to KWII's retirement fund?

A: I am a Browns fan first and foremost, so I am hoping there will not be such a fund for a very, very long time.

Q: Just to make sure I have got this straight: You are trying to profit from someone's personal injury that has put them [sic] in the hospital for at least three days? Have I got that right?

A: I will admit that the same question initially crossed my mind. After some consideration, I have obviously decided that if I was so interested in possessing these items, I would put it out there to anyone else who shares the same enthusiasm for similar memorabilia.

[orinjkrush]

methinks things will work out as they are supposed to. too bad. the kid had talent, if not maturity.

[FADERPROOF]

The same people hoping that Winslow never plays again will be the same people that get all upset if Maurice Clarett gets seriously injured.

[FADERPROOF]

I still think this clown was looking for a way out before he failed to live up to his own lofty projections. He might have got his wish, too.

Hopefully Cleveland takes back every penny.

That's the dumbest thing you've ever uttered, slap. Anyone who has watched Winslow play can see that the guy plays with a ton of determination out there and wouldn't lay down over anything.

Saying that he was looking for a way out is the farthest thing from the truth.

[SoCalBronco]

The same people hoping that Winslow never plays again will be the same people that get all upset if Maurice Clarett gets seriously injured.

very good point.

[FADERPROOF]

very good point.

It's all about what jersey they wear, before the draft it was a bunch of "Screw Clarett" and "I hope to God we don't take this guy," now theres Clarett avatars and people claiming that they'll buy his jersey and people hope that he gets the starting RB spot for us.

Yet because Winslow isn't on the Broncos, people are wishing that he never plays again, that he never walks again, and on and on.

Pick a side people.

[Arkie]

It's because Clarett has Turner's seal of approval. Turner is really excited to have a running back with more potential than Terrell Davis, Olandis Gary, and Mike Anderson at this point in their careers. Bronco fans would hate to lose Clarett, except the fans that have absolutely no faith in our rushing attack and the men who built it.

[FADERPROOF]

It's because Clarett has Turner's seal of approval. Turner is really excited to have a running back with more potential than Terrell Davis, Olandis Gary, and Mike Anderson at this point in their careers. Bronco fans would hate to lose Clarett, except the fans that have absolutely no faith in our rushing attack and the men who built it.

Yet if Clarett was taken by another team, we'd laugh at them and call them dumbasses for wasting a draft pick on a slow, lockerroom cancer who hasn't played in 2 years.

[RaiderH8r]

Yet if Clarett was taken by another team, we'd laugh at them and call them dumbasses for wasting a draft pick on a slow, lockerroom cancer who hasn't played in 2 years.
Probably...but if he were a "solja".. definitely would make fun of him.

BUT I'M A F'N SOLJA!!!

[Arkie]

I agree with Faderproof. There would be about 3 guys on the Mane backing Clarett. The rest would be calling him a bust.

[Ballhawk]

Yet if Clarett was taken by another team, we'd laugh at them and call them dumbasses for wasting a draft pick on a slow, lockerroom cancer who hasn't played in 2 years.

I stated time and time again that I relly hoped MC would never be in a Broncos Jersey. I take the selection with a huge amount of salt because I know it was one for Turner who has done so much for our Broncos.

I do take comfort from the fact that Jim Brown was exiled from his life, and was a poisonous source of advise for MC.

[Cito Pelon]

I bet that brake fluid cap is what took out his right knee. Let's see - brake fluid reservoir on the right handlebar, going over the handle bars, your legs naturally drag behind, oh yeah, there's that reservoir sticking up just enough to take your kneecap pretty much off.

If you're stupid and inexperienced and you go get a superbike, well, that happens.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Everything that I've read says that the swelling is so bad that an MRI cannot be done yet. The worry is that usually when there is that type of swelling, it's a blown ACL... they just have to wait for the swelling to go down so they can do the MRI to confirm it.

There's no credible source because, honestly, I've read so many freakin' Winslow stories that there's no way in hell I'm wading through them all to find the right one to link...
Yep, Clayton just backtracked and said no one knows anything for sure right now. I'm betting he's pretty messed up though. Crashing at 35 mph with your knee into the concrete has to hurt (with some kind of major damage a real possibility).

[ozomulsion]

It's all about what jersey they wear, before the draft it was a bunch of "Screw Clarett" and "I hope to God we don't take this guy," now theres Clarett avatars and people claiming that they'll buy his jersey and people hope that he gets the starting RB spot for us.

Yet because Winslow isn't on the Broncos, people are wishing that he never plays again, that he never walks again, and on and on.

Pick a side people.

Never liked Clarett and I never will. The most disgusting part about the whole deal is that I will now have to retire my Hearst jersey. If someone saw it from the front they would think I have a Clarett jersey on. Can't have that, not now not ever.

[DBroncos4life]

The same people hoping that Winslow never plays again will be the same people that get all upset if Maurice Clarett gets seriously injured.



Not me I don't wish harm on anyone...well unless its during a game. I might scream break his leg to a certain KC return man from time to time.

[DB-Freak]

I won't back up his reckless and rash decisions.

But I won't be laughing and cheering at his misfortune either whether it was or was not
out of stupidity.

I Just hope he learned his lesson. Can't ask much more.

[Tha rock]

I hope winslow walks again you have to be pretty damn ignorant to hope someone never walks again just becuse they are on another team maurice clairett subject I hope he does well i the future I always pick the underdogs as a raider fan weve had our share of underdogs who went to the top.

[Broncoman13]

It's all about what jersey they wear, before the draft it was a bunch of "Screw Clarett" and "I hope to God we don't take this guy," now theres Clarett avatars and people claiming that they'll buy his jersey and people hope that he gets the starting RB spot for us.

Yet because Winslow isn't on the Broncos, people are wishing that he never plays again, that he never walks again, and on and on.

Pick a side people.


To be clear.... I said I'd buy his jersey IF he wears #13. Not happening though so don't worry about me buying a MoC jersey.

Now Todd Sauerbrun is a distinct possibility and for sure if we get Freddie Mitchell. (PLEASE GOD, I DON'T REALLY WANT A FREDDIE MITCHELL ASS CLOWN JERSEY!!!!) :hitself:

[Broncoman13]

I hope winslow walks again you have to be pretty damn ignorant to hope someone never walks again just becuse they are on another team maurice clairett subject I hope he does well i the future I always pick the underdogs as a raider fan weve had our share of underdogs who went to the top.



One question......... Why in the F@CK did you put a period at the end of that post???

[watermock]

It was to make a point I guess. We can overlook the stupid post, the 7 grammatical errors, but hey, when you put a period after your post, it's gold.

[Tha rock]

Ok!!!!

[FADERPROOF]

may be in bad taste, but I found this to be ****ing hilarious!

http://xs27.xs.to/pics/05185/SheepFarmerWinslow.jpg