CBS draft grades.

[KansasBronco]

KC got the lowest with a C-. We didn't have a first round pick and still got a C. I think it's better than that the more I study it. You have to figure we got a 1st and 4th round pick along with a 3rd this year just for giving up the number 25 pick. That alone makes that C a B in my opinion. Oakland and SD both had A's. Great read!

http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/8416386

[SoCalBronco]

KC got a C-? WTF. KC got a straight A. Best LB in the draft, very underrated WR, good ILB prospect. C-? CBS is snorting something.

[Mile High Shack]

they were generous to give us a C

I'd give us an F+

I still fail to see the value in these picks when you look at our roster and I'm not drinking the kool aid that the rest of the homers are

[ZachKC]

Ha, niiiice.

[Darkhawk24]

they were generous to give us a C

I'd give us an F+

I still fail to see the value in these picks when you look at our roster and I'm not drinking the kool aid that the rest of the homers are

I'm not sure i've ever seen you like one thing the Broncos have done. :)

[DBroncos4life]

New England Patriots
Best pick: First-round pick Logan Mankins will push for time as a rookie at guard. He's a typical Patriots quality pick.

Questionable move: Third-round pick Ellis Hobbs is a smallish corner, but it's hard to question this team when it comes to picking defensive backs.

Steal: Fourth-round pick James Sanders is a ball-hawking safety who can be groomed for the future.

Overall grade: B. They had a sound draft. Isn't that the New England way?



Even though I pointed out that many of their picks are reaches by SI's ranking.

[Mile High Shack]

New England Patriots
Best pick: First-round pick Logan Mankins will push for time as a rookie at guard. He's a typical Patriots quality pick.

Questionable move: Third-round pick Ellis Hobbs is a smallish corner, but it's hard to question this team when it comes to picking defensive backs.

Steal: Fourth-round pick James Sanders is a ball-hawking safety who can be groomed for the future.

Overall grade: B. They had a sound draft. Isn't that the New England way?



Even though I pointed out that many of their picks are reaches by SI's ranking.


looking at their history compared to ours with Belichek, how can you really question him

you look at our history of drafting corners and well.........

[Drek]

Damn, that guy's an idiot. The Chefs get a C- because he "doesn't like how Derrick Johnson plays". He then goes on to call Lofa Tatupu, a guy I actually personally know and like, the Seahawks best pick in the 2nd round, despite him being a significant overdraft. Clueless.

[Taco John]

I'm not sure i've ever seen you like one thing the Broncos have done. :)



It's pretty rare...

[Lestat]

Sheesh has the nerve to say Myers a 6th rounder is our best pick?

what a moron

[Mile High Shack]

I'm not sure i've ever seen you like one thing the Broncos have done. :)

how long have you known me?

I liked the trade with the Skins

I've liked many things

but to question my loyalty

whatever

[TheManeMan]

2 Fresno St players for the Pats...:woowoo:

Drafting players that were coached by Pat Hill is a great idea...I'm sure BB will get 110% from them...

[Dr. Broncenstein]

The Chorfs draft gets a B just for DJ landing in their laps.... even Peterson couldn't **** that one up.

[Mile High Shack]

It's pretty rare...

name one thing the Broncos have done besides the skins trade that has worked out?

I'm talking about solid moves, not gambles all the time.

this draft tore it for me......I think like someone else has said, it seems like he wants to get fired

[Darkhawk24]

how long have you known me?

I liked the trade with the Skins

I've liked many things

but to question my loyalty

whatever



LOL you are something else man.

[Saulbadguy]

Questionable move: With so many needs on defense, how in the heck can the Chiefs use a second-round pick on a punter? There's always risk there when taking a punter or kicker this high.


Um..it was a late 3rd rounder.

Prisco is a moron.

[Mile High Shack]

LOL you are something else man.

what do you mean?

explain yourself

[Taco John]

how long have you known me?

I liked the trade with the Skins

I've liked many things

but to question my loyalty

whatever


No one is questioning your loyalty... You just have a pessimistic nature. You're not the only one.

[Darkhawk24]

what do you mean?

explain yourself


I said I don't think _IVE_ ever seen you like a move the Broncos have done. With a smile face after it showing I meant no harm.

You got all bent out of shape snapping back about me questioning your loyalty.... Was that really needed? Obviously I don't know who you are and only going off the few posts I remember from you.

[Mile High Shack]

No one is questioning your loyalty... You just have a pessimistic nature. You're not the only one.

what have we done since 1998 that would lead to me being pessimistic?

I hate the moves we did in the draft sans the trade.

Every year I predict a winning record....except for this year.

If I was a telluride, I'd pick us to lose every year.

I'm sick of Shanny playing Mike the blackjack player and gambling every year.

[Mile High Shack]

I said I don't think _IVE_ ever seen you like a move the Broncos have done. With a smile face after it showing I meant no harm.

You got all bent out of shape snapping back about me questioning your loyalty.... Was that really needed? Obviously I don't know who you are and only going off the few posts I remember from you.

two simple words then for you

ignore me

[broncos love]

name one thing the Broncos have done besides the skins trade that has worked out?

I'm talking about solid moves, not gambles all the time.

this draft tore it for me......I think like someone else has said, it seems like he wants to get fired


Go read the article in the denver post about pat bowlen staying hands off in the draft and everthing else and shanny doesn't have to worry about getting fired because he is there as long as he wants too. Go broncos in 2005 and lets get the afc west title back where it belongs.

[Mile High Shack]

Go read the article in the denver post about pat bowlen staying hands off in the draft and everthing else and shanny doesn't have to worry about getting fired because he is there as long as he wants too. Go broncos in 2005 and lets get the afc west title back where it belongs.

I already said he will never get fired

[DB-Freak]

MHS was a pretty big homer up until this season .

Around til middle/end of the season........

But thats when a lot of people turned their heads.

[Paladin]

Sheesh has the nerve to say Myers a 6th rounder is our best pick? what a moron

Not necessarily. If you rate on who is going to be playing soon within the system they were drafted in, then "gradings" have to be made accordingly. I am not happy with the draft this year, but that's because I was interested in a draft that attacked the Os and Ds of the chievies, the faides and the chuggers. What I think the Brain Trust did was draft special team players who had a second "skill" or position they could contribute. I am not gonna repeat what many have already said, except to say that from a fan standpoint, thi swas a damm boring draft for the Broncos. maybe it will pan out to some degree and we will see some different starting field positions.

Given that, I don't know how anyone could determine whether this was or was not a decent draft. We'll know more in late August, early September.

And there are the June 1 releases yet to come. I was initally very discouraged, still am to a lesser degree. But I remember so many peopl ehere saying that this draft pool was just so-so.

I actually think that the Clarett sighing was a Turner signing, and that's okay with me. Bobby says that's a good pick, then I go with that judgment. REally doesn't matter what anyone else says, since they have not a clue as to how that pick will work out either.

So, the "C" grade is okay.

The KC grade is probalby accurate. I remember reading elsewhere that Johnson was not a good value for the first round. Well, we will get a chance to see, won't we?

[Mile High Shack]

MHS was a pretty big homer up until this season .

Around til middle/end of the season........

But thats when a lot of people turned their heads.

I thought we were going to the superbowl this last year........ :(

[Darkhawk24]

two simple words then for you

ignore me


Alright got my first neg rep because someone takes things a bit too serious.

Ah well it was bound to happen! :)

[DBroncos4life]

Alright got my first neg rep because someone takes things a bit too serious.

Ah well it was bound to happen! :)


Here I will try and counter it :)

[Mile High Shack]

Alright got my first neg rep because someone takes things a bit too serious.

Ah well it was bound to happen! :)

don't come at me then

I can be disappointed in this horrible draft and I don't have to drink the kool aid.....

[DB-Freak]

I thought we were going to the superbowl this last year........ :(
and the year before and the year before that too. (not just you......)

RHODES AND HIS SUPER DEFENSE!!!!

[Mile High Shack]

and the year before and the year before that too. (not just you......)

RHODES AND HIS SUPER DEFENSE!!!!

in 1999, when Greaseball started, and we started off 0-5, I thought we were going to win 11 in a row.

[doof]

Best pick: Hard to find one I like. I'll go with fourth-round pick Craphonso Thorpe. If he can revert to his pre-injury form of 2003, he can become a starting player.

Questionable move: With so many needs on defense, how in the heck can the Chiefs use a second-round pick on a punter? There's always risk there when taking a punter or kicker this high.

Steal: Fifth-round pick Alphonso Hodge is a quality corner who played some good football at Miami of Ohio.

Overall grade: C-. I am not a big fan of Derrick Johnson's play, and I didn't like the rest of their draft. Pretty blah.

This guy is way off on this analysis. DJ is a top 10 talent and is clearly their best pick. Colquitt they picked in the 3rd with a compensatory pick. Plus, KC got great value out of Thorpe, Grisby, and Parquet. This was at the very least a good draft.

[TexanBob]

The Chorfs draft gets a B just for DJ landing in their laps.... even Peterson couldn't **** that one up.

Charley Casserly did.

[Sarcastro]

Prisco is a moron. Here is an e-mail I sent to him in response to his grades:

Congratulations on the Chiefs draft grade. It is not every day when a national columnist can be both factually incorrect and radically inconsistent in one small blurb.

Lets just ignore that you seem to not really think it was nice at all that the Chiefs drafted Derrick Johnson in the first round. I am sure you are one of those lucky few that actually thinks Erasmus James will be anything but a bust in the NFL. I laughed every time I saw a national sports columnist with him as our #15 pick.

Moving on, the Chiefs did not sign a punter in the second round. They drafted him with the 99th pick in the 3rd round. Was it really that hard to look at a draft tracker while you were writing this article? If you would have actually bothered to check to see when Colquitt was drafted you would have seen that he went right around when he was projected to go.

Speaking of the 2nd round, we traded for some cornerback named Patrick Surtain with the 46th pick. I hear he is pretty good. Shame that you gave the Raiders an A on the draft for trading for Moss, but when it comes to the Chiefs you just completely ignore that we signed Surtain with our 2nd round pick. That is just extremely inconsistent grading criteria, and makes you look like an idiot.

Good luck on the whole article writing thing. For next draft you might want to set some grading criteria before hand and you might also want to actually know when players were drafted instead of just guessing and arbitrarily assigning grades.

[DBroncos4life]

Prisco is a moron. Here is an e-mail I sent to him in response to his grades:

Congratulations on the Chiefs draft grade. It is not every day when a national columnist can be both factually incorrect and radically inconsistent in one small blurb.

Lets just ignore that you seem to not really think it was nice at all that the Chiefs drafted Derrick Johnson in the first round. I am sure you are one of those lucky few that actually thinks Erasmus James will be anything but a bust in the NFL. I laughed every time I saw a national sports columnist with him as our #15 pick.

Moving on, the Chiefs did not sign a punter in the second round. They drafted him with the 99th pick in the 3rd round. Was it really that hard to look at a draft tracker while you were writing this article? If you would have actually bothered to check to see when Colquitt was drafted you would have seen that he went right around when he was projected to go.

Speaking of the 2nd round, we traded for some cornerback named Patrick Surtain with the 46th pick. I hear he is pretty good. Shame that you gave the Raiders an A on the draft for trading for Moss, but when it comes to the Chiefs you just completely ignore that we signed Surtain with our 2nd round pick. That is just extremely inconsistent grading criteria, and makes you look like an idiot.

Good luck on the whole article writing thing. For next draft you might want to set some grading criteria before hand and you might also want to actually know when players were drafted instead of just guessing and arbitrarily assigning grades.



Let us know if he writes back.

[labronco]

I pity on these draft-graders. Someone's gotta sell papers, these folks probably laugh at themselves giving out these grades knowing how silly this whole thing is.

If I have to give us a grade, it would be a B. We filled our biggest needs in DB and ST with all our draft. Then there is our next feature back in Clarett. What audacity by Shannahan to have a draft like this where he knows he will be the joke of the entire media.

Clarett is the luckiest guy in this entire draft for being selected by Denver. I see us getting a first rounder or another Champ Bailey in a few years out of this guy.

[Mr. Trout]

In regards to the San Diego grade...I like how he listed Castillo as a questionable move...then in the overall grade he said he liked the selection of Castillo.

[Crushaholic]

Craphonso looks like he could be the second coming of Snoop Minnis, but stealing Derrick at #15 should move the Chefs up to a B.

[crazyhorse]

Our second round draft pick wasn't bad either. He's a slam dunk performer/starter in his 1st year. There aren't many picks in the second round you can say that about.

If it cost the Chiefs a draft pick, then it's part of the Chiefs draft. You would be hard pressed to do better than DJ and Surtain in the 1st 2 rounds of the draft.

I also like the LB in the 4th and the punter in the 3rd.

There is little in the way of logic in the grade that they gave not only the Chiefs, but the Broncos as well.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Our second round draft pick wasn't bad either. He's a slam dunk performer/starter in his 1st year. There aren't many picks in the second round you can say that about.

If it cost the Chiefs a draft pick, then it's part of the Chiefs draft. You would be hard pressed to do better than DJ and Surtain in the 1st 2 rounds of the draft.

I also like the LB in the 4th and the punter in the 3rd.

There is little in the way of logic in the grade that they gave not only the Chiefs, but the Broncos as well.

That's so lame when you start pulling in who a team traded for when you give them a draft grade. Prisco shouldn't have done it with Moss, and Chief fans come across as real whiners when complaining about Moss being included and not Surtain.

Guess Denver's draft isn't that bad when you look at it like this:

Williams
Paymuh
Foxworth
Clarett
Warren (can anyone actually believe Denver got Top 3 talent in the 4th round?)
Myers
Ernster
Skins 1st and 4th next year

Warren and the Skins picks did cost Denver a draft pick, I guess we can include what they got in return.

Most teams can play that game too since the Pats picked up a 3rd, 4th, and 5th next year and the Eagles picked up 2 4ths.

[crazyhorse]

That's so lame when you start pulling in who a team traded for when you give them a draft grade. Prisco shouldn't have done it with Moss, and Chief fans come across as real whiners when complaining about Moss being included and not Surtain.

Guess Denver's draft isn't that bad when you look at it like this:

Williams
Paymuh
Foxworth
Clarett
Warren (can anyone actually believe Denver got Top 3 talent in the 4th round?)
Myers
Ernster
Skins 1st and 4th next year

Warren and the Skins picks did cost Denver a draft pick, I guess we can include what they got in return.

Most teams can play that game too since the Pats picked up a 3rd, 4th, and 5th next year and the Eagles picked up 2 4ths.

I guess what you are saying is that when Denver has 2 1sts next year, half of it wont count in thier draft grade.

I merely said that if it cost us a second round pick, then it shouild be considered part of our draft.

It's not whining. I really dont care much what the draft grades are. Espn has us at a B in the draft.

Personally, given past history with the recent Chiefs drafts, I give them an A. I haven't been this satisfied with a draft in some time. The C grade from a random sorce doesn't seem to effect my feeling on the draft one way or the other. So as pretaining to the "whinning" you speak of, I am not familiar with that. I couldn't give a rats ass about what the Raiders did.

I guess what you are trying to convince me of is that Surtain isn't our second round pick, even though it cost us a second round pick to get him. I figure you are trying to make yourself feel better about the Broncos draft in some way here. Carry on. And good luck with it.

[bloodsunday]

These things are in the eye of the beholder. I have seen Kansas City get anywhere from an A- (kansas city star.com) to a C- (ft worth star.com). Oakland has been in the B and C range. Although if you read the Oakland rags, they are just as curious about their draft as we are about the Broncos. The only team that looks to have had a good draft at this point was San Diego. The rest will have to wait and see how the players develop.

I am suprised how much people were down on Derrick Johnson?

[Raider Bill]

An A for the Raiders? What a douchebag. Hawthorne is the only thing giving this entire proceeding a passing grade. I give it a D myself. Perhaps this guy should watch a game or 2.

[NaptownChief]

Historically I've been one of the biggest critics of the KC drafts and I can't come close to bad mouthing it....

DJ was an excellent pick.

Coldcock the punter at the end of the 3rd wasn't a favorite of mine but still not a horrible pick.

Crap Thorpe was excellent value at a need position and has a huge upside if healthy.

Grisby is a nasty football player with good speed and excellent strength, looks like a small school sleeper.

Alphonso Hodge also looks like a very nice sleeper at a need position of CB. Good size, excellent speed and experience.

Will Svitek is a huge kid and an excellent athlete for his manmoth size, not sure what they will do with him but excellent upside for just a 6th round pick.

Khari Long didn't excite me too much but is a very good physical specimin. It hasn't translated on the football field too well but at least has upside and not horrible for a mid 6th round pick.

James Kilian- Seems like a wasted pick...Only really bad pick in their draft IMO. Threw more INT's than TD's and a low completion %. That doesn't translate well to the NFL.

Jeremy Parquet- Excellent pick at this point in the draft. 6'7" and 325lbs with a lot of playing experience at OT...A need position once Roaf retires. Big upside with little downside risk with just a mid 7th round pick.


Every player except Kilian has a very likely chance of making the team and probably everyone of them except Kilian and Long have legitimate potential to be starters within a couple years.

I don't pass up many chances to bad mouth Carl Peterson but despite that anyone who dives into these picks just a little bit can't help but be fairly impressed.

[NaptownChief]

Craphonso looks like he could be the second coming of Snoop Minnis, .


Other than being bigger, faster and a lot more athletic they are just a like. :kiddingme

He is a lot closer to being a faster A.Boldin than a Snoop Minnis.

[gunns]

KC got the lowest with a C-. We didn't have a first round pick and still got a C. I think it's better than that the more I study it. You have to figure we got a 1st and 4th round pick along with a 3rd this year just for giving up the number 25 pick. That alone makes that C a B in my opinion. Oakland and SD both had A's. Great read!

http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/8416386

That's funny because on ESPN this morning, Kiper and Mortensen were saying the two losers in this draft were Denver and Oakland, and I couldn't agree more. Oakland definitely had Al in the draft room this year, drafting speed and no talent. I don't know who in the hell we had in the draft room, obviously Slowik and Turner.

[NaptownChief]

That's funny because on ESPN this morning, Kiper and Mortensen were saying the two losers in this draft were Denver and Oakland, and I couldn't agree more. Oakland definitely had Al in the draft room this year, drafting speed and no talent. I don't know who in the hell we had in the draft room, obviously Slowik and Turner.



As a division rival I couldn't have been much more pleased with the draft. I felt like the Chiefs for the first time in for ever came out with a very good draft and felt like the Broncos and the Raiders both need back surgery after all the serious reaching they did over the weekend.

Even though I am a Chief fan I would be flat out honest if I thought the Donks or Raiders did well in the draft. I'm not like a lot of chuckle heads on these boards that try to convince themselves that whatever my team did is a good move and whatever the other teams did was a poor move. That being said, I will guarantee with my life on the line that if ever single one of you Donk fans were asked on Friday how you would feel if the Donks spent their 3rd round pick on Clarett I don't think I would have found more than one person to say they wouldn't be pissed off....Now that it happen there are tons of you trying to convince yourself it was a good pick. Take a stand for gawd sakes and have some conviction and backbone.

[TheNextStep]

Best LB in the draft

No, that would be Kevin Burnett. If there's one team whose draft I'm jealous of, it's Dallas.

[Old Dude]

... Take a stand for gawd sakes and have some conviction and backbone.

I have a great deal of conviction that Bobby Turner knows a lot more about running backs than I do.

[watermock]

I gave the Giants Clarett in the 3rd, but only because he missed his pick and felt ornery.

If you consider that alot of teams were trying to trade down, Denver managed to rape the Skins, who will have a rookie QB at our pick. I don't see that helping much for our draft chances. So picking up three picks for our low #1 was a nice start, and Myers was good value as a utility lineman in the 6th.

I'm warming up to Clarett for two reasons. First and foremost, he looked NOTHING like the spoiled punk I watched for the last two years. Of course, he's had a lawyer teaching him how to say all the right things, and still bagged out at the combine. It may sound like I'm coddling Clarett, but I think he was totally embarassed when Fullbacks posted better times. God knows, I have grilled OSU players in my day as an Iowa fan.

If I put in all the factors, I've gone homer and will give them a B-. If you take out the future picks and Warren's trade, it's a solid D.

Second, if Turner feels he's still got legitimate first round talent, but needs schooling and better training, it could turn out to be a great pick. But I'm not holding my breath. That said, I'm not holding my breath on our other two picks in round 3 either.

If you factor in the Washington trade, I give the overall moves a B. Now I know you can't grade what you pick, but as someone said, if you factor in the Washinton trade, and the pickup for Warren, our 6th which I liked, (reminds me of Hamilton, or at least close), and remember that Darrell Green was a midget as well, the draft starts looking better.

I liked the Hornehead's picks alot, but would of taken Williams over Williamson at #7. I think BMW is closer to helping out while the iron is hot in the Great White. Everyone got down on E. James, but all he did was make plays for Wisconsin and is ready to start. He's still recovering from an ankle that got rolled up on, played thru it and still was Big 10 player of the year, and that's no slouch conference, especially along the OL and DL.

[gunns]

As a division rival I couldn't have been much more pleased with the draft. I felt like the Chiefs for the first time in for ever came out with a very good draft and felt like the Broncos and the Raiders both need back surgery after all the serious reaching they did over the weekend.

Even though I am a Chief fan I would be flat out honest if I thought the Donks or Raiders did well in the draft. I'm not like a lot of chuckle heads on these boards that try to convince themselves that whatever my team did is a good move and whatever the other teams did was a poor move. That being said, I will guarantee with my life on the line that if ever single one of you Donk fans were asked on Friday how you would feel if the Donks spent their 3rd round pick on Clarett I don't think I would have found more than one person to say they wouldn't be pissed off....Now that it happen there are tons of you trying to convince yourself it was a good pick. Take a stand for gawd sakes and have some conviction and backbone.

It's called homerism at it's highest.

[Merlin]

looking at their history compared to ours with Belichek, how can you really question him
Yes you can. If you look at the number of starters in the league that have resulted from the last 5 drafts Denver does very well as compared to NE. However, they may have fewer busts. As to corners. Yes, we don't have a good record, but it does seem to be improving. BTW, people are quick to criticize the Delta pick, and considering the final outcome it is understandable. But lets not forget he did make one Pro Bowl, so the coaching staff was right, but they were also wrong ugh!~

Merlin

[Mile High Shack]

Yes you can. If you look at the number of starters in the league that have resulted from the last 5 drafts Denver does very well as compared to NE. However, they may have fewer busts. As to corners. Yes, we don't have a good record, but it does seem to be improving. BTW, people are quick to criticize the Delta pick, and considering the final outcome it is understandable. But lets not forget he did make one Pro Bowl, so the coaching staff was right, but they were also wrong ugh!~

Merlin
Did I imagine that…or did you just defend Deltha?

[DrFate]

Questionable move: With so many needs on defense, how in the heck can the Chiefs use a second-round pick on a punter?

Taking a punter helps a defense. And that defense needs all the help is can get.

[TheNextStep]

As a division rival I couldn't have been much more pleased with the draft. I felt like the Chiefs for the first time in for ever came out with a very good draft and felt like the Broncos and the Raiders both need back surgery after all the serious reaching they did over the weekend.

You mean like Antajj Hawthorne, who most experts had given a first or early second round grade? Or did you mean Ryan Riddle, who most experts had given a fourth round grade?

For the record, I don't give a sh*t whether a guy was a "reach" by conventional wisdom or not. I care whether or not the guy can play. Hell, I remember the last time Kansas City took a linebacker in the first round and everyone thought they got EXCELLENT value... of course, Percy Snow didn't quite work out, did he? That same year, Buffalo took a linebacker named Marvcus Patton in the 8th round.

In the long run, you'd have been better off reaching for the guy that could play, wouldn't you?

Like I said, I'm not worried about who was a reach or who was a steal too much... just so long as the guys can play football.

[Merlin]

Did I imagine that…or did you just defend Deltha?
It was not so much defending Deltha as pointing out that he actually looked good when he first started, so the coaching staff was partially right. But this brings me to my next gripe ;)
Before the draft started there were three areas that needed immediate help. ST stunk, so we all wanted help there. DBs needed help, whether our guys from last year are good or not, because they get hurt, and that is two years in a row we have walked into the playoffs with serious depth problems at CBs.

The two areas in ST look like they have been addressed by potentially excellent players. The CBs chosen raise some questions, but they were blazing fast corners, so if they get the rest right, they could be excellent depth players. The criticism of not picking a QB or R are just out of place. The R available in our draft position were no better than what we have. Those picks at best would have been projects, and the ones we made either will start at a particular position, or will potentially provide depth. Although they tried to move up the middle draft to land a QB, next year we will have many draft positions from which to pick one, so it was not critical.

Lastly, my gripe. People are all over these choices as if they know for sure they stink, yet drafts cannot really be assessed until about 3 yrs later (as I said, Deltha even looked good after the 1st year). So for people who have devoted minimal amount of time (as compared to the hours of reviews, interviews, tape analysis, etc.), it can be quite laughable for them to so easily dismiss everything. That being said, sometimes one must wonder about their CB choices ??? But that is different from knee jerk reaction of condemnation. (BTW, I am guessing 1-2 of our CBs will be transformed into S)

PS They also added some depth to the OL with a prototype player for Denver style OL (he better get stronger though)

Merlin

[Atlas]

what have we done since 1998 that would lead to me being pessimistic?

I hate the moves we did in the draft sans the trade.

Every year I predict a winning record....except for this year.

If I was a telluride, I'd pick us to lose every year.

I'm sick of Shanny playing Mike the blackjack player and gambling every year.

What has Shanny done ever to make you think this team won't be a 10-6 team and in the playoffs?

Have faith Shack this is going to be a good season. Would I lie to you??

[Sarcastro]

That's so lame when you start pulling in who a team traded for when you give them a draft grade. Prisco shouldn't have done it with Moss, and Chief fans come across as real whiners when complaining about Moss being included and not Surtain.

Guess Denver's draft isn't that bad when you look at it like this:

Williams
Paymuh
Foxworth
Clarett
Warren (can anyone actually believe Denver got Top 3 talent in the 4th round?)
Myers
Ernster
Skins 1st and 4th next year

Warren and the Skins picks did cost Denver a draft pick, I guess we can include what they got in return.

Most teams can play that game too since the Pats picked up a 3rd, 4th, and 5th next year and the Eagles picked up 2 4ths.

Yes, it is totally whining to ask that nationally renowned sports writers be consistant and do proper research when they write articles.

[gunns]

You mean like Antajj Hawthorne, who most experts had given a first or early second round grade? Or did you mean Ryan Riddle, who most experts had given a fourth round grade?

For the record, I don't give a sh*t whether a guy was a "reach" by conventional wisdom or not. I care whether or not the guy can play. Hell, I remember the last time Kansas City took a linebacker in the first round and everyone thought they got EXCELLENT value... of course, Percy Snow didn't quite work out, did he? That same year, Buffalo took a linebacker named Marvcus Patton in the 8th round.

In the long run, you'd have been better off reaching for the guy that could play, wouldn't you?

Like I said, I'm not worried about who was a reach or who was a steal too much... just so long as the guys can play football.


No I think it's 3 things really. Washington put up an excellent speed time. If not for that he wouldn't even have been a bleep on the radar. It's typical Al to jump all over a player with speed but no talent (see James Jett). Same goes for Routt, who most are saying was a real reach in the second based on talent. Also Hawthorne, who was projected but fell so far. Why? It's not the drug screen or off field because look at Castillo and Clarett. He may have been a value pick because of where he was projected but he's not even being listed as that. And Marvcus Patton was nothing to write home to mom about.

[yavoon]

KC got the lowest with a C-. We didn't have a first round pick and still got a C. I think it's better than that the more I study it. You have to figure we got a 1st and 4th round pick along with a 3rd this year just for giving up the number 25 pick. That alone makes that C a B in my opinion. Oakland and SD both had A's. Great read!

http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/8416386

I'd separate out the trade form the draft. next year we can evaluate who the broncos actually take in those spots. but for the spots they had the broncos looked very shaky. they threw a bunch of darts at really fast cornerbacks w/ poor hands and mostly potential, then took another huge flier on maurice clarett.

not solid in the least.

[TheNextStep]

No I think it's 3 things really. Washington put up an excellent speed time. If not for that he wouldn't even have been a bleep on the radar. It's typical Al to jump all over a player with speed but no talent (see James Jett). Same goes for Routt, who most are saying was a real reach in the second based on talent. Also Hawthorne, who was projected but fell so far. Why? It's not the drug screen or off field because look at Castillo and Clarett. He may have been a value pick because of where he was projected but he's not even being listed as that. And Marvcus Patton was nothing to write home to mom about.

Fabian Washington was a projected first round pick. Period. For you to say otherwise is no different than if I were to say that Derrick Johnson was supposed to be a second rounder. Sure, I can say it... but it doesn't mean I'm not full of sh*t. I live in Omaha. I saw plenty of Husker games last year, believe me. My best friend is a big enough Husker fan that he's got Husker tats on his body. He was absolutely gushing about Fabian Washington when he heard that Oakland drafted him. Your comment that Washington would not have been a "bleep on the radar" and to insinuate that he's got no talent is completely full of sh*t and speaks more to your homerism than it does to anything else.

Stanford Routt was a guy who, in the week prior to the draft, ESPN analysts were on television saying, "Don't be surprised when this kid is taken in the second round." I know. I saw the freakin' show and heard it with my own two ears. Was he projected that high in the second? No. Was I thrilled with the pick? No, especially since we'd just taken a corner at #23. That said, to come back now and insist that it was a horrible reach is, again, completely full of sh*t. He was expected to go in round 2. He went in round 2. Period, end of story.

So you're saying that Hawthorne fell because he's just no good? Is that it? Man, Bill Engvall is right. Life would be easier if people like you wore signs.

Lastly, Marvcus Patton wasn't the greatest linebacker by any means... but Marvcus Patton was the second coming of Christ when compared to Percy Snow, regardless of where they were drafted. If you don't understand something the first time you read it, please don't hesitate to read it again. Do that as many times as you like.

[Merlin]

What has Shanny done ever to make you think this team won't be a 10-6 team and in the playoffs?
With a risk of sounding like a :homer: I would say we will actually finish with 11 wins or better.

The improvements in ST will improve both our defence and offence.

The improvements on Offence (better and more experienced TEs, more experienced Rs, more options and experienced RBs) will show a big improvement in our red zone, which should reduce the brain cramps on our QB (which reduces our turnovers and improves our defence).

I think the DL will be better than last year because we lost one good DL, but we regain Pryce, plus Brown (if he gives us 8 to 10 games that is still of value), plus there is a decent likelihood one of those other picks will also work out (it makes a difference playing in a winning environment, just ask the RB for NE). Our DBs are a question, but Champ should be better, Walls (if truly recovered) should also be better than last years option. The questions are at safety and nickel. But then all the other changes would make those areas stronger even if they remain the same (because they are less exposed).

However, I'm not sure KC made enough changes to improve by more than 2 wins. A great CB and a great LB (even though yours is not proven yet) does not transform a defence (our results last year prove that). The Raiders have too many gaps in defence, so they will be lucky to finish 8-8 (plus they still have the same QB, you think we have a head case). Now San Diego is another story. At least we play them well (their QB rating against us stinks). Who knows, we might get lucky and their QB might become a little more average ;)

Merlin

[SoCalBronco]

Fabian Washington was a projected first round pick. Period. For you to say otherwise is no different than if I were to say that Derrick Johnson was supposed to be a second rounder. Sure, I can say it... but it doesn't mean I'm not full of sh*t. I live in Omaha. I saw plenty of Husker games last year, believe me. My best friend is a big enough Husker fan that he's got Husker tats on his body. He was absolutely gushing about Fabian Washington when he heard that Oakland drafted him. Your comment that Washington would not have been a "bleep on the radar" and to insinuate that he's got no talent is completely full of sh*t and speaks more to your homerism than it does to anything else.

Stanford Routt was a guy who, in the week prior to the draft, ESPN analysts were on television saying, "Don't be surprised when this kid is taken in the second round." I know. I saw the freakin' show and heard it with my own two ears. Was he projected that high in the second? No. Was I thrilled with the pick? No, especially since we'd just taken a corner at #23. That said, to come back now and insist that it was a horrible reach is, again, completely full of sh*t. He was expected to go in round 2. He went in round 2. Period, end of story.

So you're saying that Hawthorne fell because he's just no good? Is that it? Man, Bill Engvall is right. Life would be easier if people like you wore signs.

Lastly, Marvcus Patton wasn't the greatest linebacker by any means... but Marvcus Patton was the second coming of Christ when compared to Percy Snow, regardless of where they were drafted. If you don't understand something the first time you read it, please don't hesitate to read it again. Do that as many times as you like.

I'll give you Hawthorne. As you see in my thread about the AFC West Draft below i thought that was the steal of the draft. Dockett all over again. But the two corners at 1 and 2 were awful and you yourself thought so with your grades of the Raiders Day 1 on KFFL.

[TheNextStep]

I'll give you Hawthorne. As you see in my thread about the AFC West Draft below i thought that was the steal of the draft. Dockett all over again. But the two corners at 1 and 2 were awful and you yourself thought so with your grades of the Raiders Day 1 on KFFL.
Absolutely. I thought they were awful because I didn't want to see us go cornerback. I wanted to see us address the front 7. My anger came from the fact that we didn't do that... not because the players who were taken were "reaches." In fact, on KFFL on the day of the draft, I spoke up about the idea that Routt was a reach (despite the fact that I was pissed about the pick) by posting exactly what I posted above: In the week before the draft, they said he'd be a second round pick. On draft day, that's precisely what he was.

As for why I was so pissed, it is evident in that same post on KFFL that you refer to: I want a f***ing pass rusher. True or false? Did you read that draft grade post and not come away from it with a clear understanding as to why I was pissed off?

I was mad because we've got Woodson, Asomugha, Hill, Walker, and Love at corner but we only had 25 sacks last year. I'd have been just as pissed if the Raiders drafted a Tight End or Wide Receiver at #23... know what I mean? Being pissed off at the plan and being pissed off because you got a bad player are two different things...

[NaptownChief]

Stanford Routt was a guy who, in the week prior to the draft, ESPN analysts were on television saying, "Don't be surprised when this kid is taken in the second round." I know. I saw the freakin' show and heard it with my own two ears.



That is because they know Greasy Al is still alive(barely) and still in full control of the Raiders drafts...Christ, if he just hears a rumor a guy has 4.30 speed he will spend a 1st day pick without even verifying it..Routt is a 7th round talent with 1st round speed.

[TheNextStep]

That is because they know Greasy Al is still alive(barely) and still in full control of the Raiders drafts...Christ, if he just hears a rumor a guy has 4.30 speed he will spend a 1st day pick without even verifying it..Routt is a 7th round talent with 1st round speed.

This is like when a little kid gets proven wrong, is embarassed, and needs to lash out, isn't it? Don't worry, junior, it'll grow.

Besides, I don't see how in the world a team that has Carl Peterson at the helm is going to talk sh*t about anybody else. Yeah, yeah... "Derrick Johnson was a steal and was the best player at his position".... Sorry, but I've heard that story before. Tell Ryan Sims that I said hello.

[NaptownChief]

This is like when a little kid gets proven wrong, is embarassed, and needs to lash out, isn't it?


Embarrassed or proven wrong? Are you kidding me? The only thing embarrassing about our conversation was the quality of the Raiders draft...

If you see Jano and D Russell down in the red light district tell them I said hello.

[TheNextStep]

Embarrassed or proven wrong? Are you kidding me? The only thing embarrassing about our conversation was the quality of the Raiders draft...

Not either/or. And. You were proven wrong. You claimed that the Raiders reached on a lot of picks. Fact is that Washington was projected in the first round and Routt was projected into the second. Period. It was your response that led me to believe that you were embarassed about being so utterly and indefensibly wrong.

And you're now going to talk trash about how much better your team did? You guys did so exceptionally well after the first round that most places are grading your draft as one of the weakest overall drafts of the year.

Go ahead, talk sh*t. Tell me how much you like Will Svitek as an offensive line prospect... especially considering that he played freakin' defense in college. Tell me how much you like that 185 pound receiver from Florida... especially considering how well that worked out with Snoop Minnis. Tell me how much you like that you drafted a punter in round 3... especially since the best punter in the league today wasn't even taken until round 4 of his draft. Tell me how much you like James Killian... especially because if Green gets hurt, your depth sucks so bad that he'll probably be starting.

If you see Jano and D Russell down in the red light district tell them I said hello.

Will do. Make sure to touch bases with Tamarick Vanover and Bam Morris for me, too, will you?

[NaptownChief]

Will do. Make sure to touch bases with Tamarick Vanover and Bam Morris for me, too, will you?



When your team can muster up more than a 4.5 win per season average like they have the passed 2 years then I might consider listening to your blather...And when your team can stop dropping games to the Chiefs like 4 of the last 4 and 5 of the last 6 then you might have a smidgen of room to bad mouth the Chiefs...Until then go hang out 4.5 win per season buddies cause they are the only ones that care what you have to say at the moment.


By the way did the Chiefs spend two 1st round picks on Vanover and Morris? What as that, the 2nd overall and the 17th overall? Nice, very nice.

[TheNextStep]

When your team can muster up more than a 4.5 win per season average like they have the passed 2 years then I might consider listening to your blather...And when your team can stop dropping games to the Chiefs like 4 of the last 4 and 5 of the last 6 then you might have a smidgen of room to bad mouth the Chiefs...Until then go hang out 4.5 win per season buddies cause they are the only ones that care what you have to say at the moment.

And when your team can win a Super Bowl in your lifetime.... scratch that... a PLAYOFF GAME, then I might consider listening to yours.

When was the last time? Do you even remember? Were you even born?

Congratulations on your ability to talk trash about season records. After all, it isn't every day that 7-9 team gets that cocky...

By the way did the Chiefs spend two 1st round picks on Vanover and Morris? What as that, the 2nd overall and the 17th overall? Nice, very nice.

Okay... just don't bring up what happened the last time you drafted a linebacker in round 1, okay? That Percy Snow was great, wasn't he?

[NaptownChief]

Congratulations on your ability to talk trash about season records. After all, it isn't every day that 7-9 team gets that cocky...




You are correct about that...Not too often that somebody worse than 7-9 runs their yap allowing you that opportunity but being a Faider fan you guys are certainly the rare exception. Hilarious! You guys could post ten consecutive years of 4 and 5 win season and still be spewing nonsense from your pie holes.

When you guys start playing professional football again in Oakland let us know.

[TheNextStep]

You are correct about that...Not too often that somebody worse than 7-9 runs their yap allowing you that opportunity but being a Faider fan you guys are certainly the rare exception. Hilarious! You guys could post ten consecutive years of 4 and 5 win season and still be spewing nonsense from your pie holes.

What's the matter, Naptown? Is it that time of the month? Take a midol, smear some vagisil, but, please... stop crying. The fact is that you claimed the Raiders reached for their players. The fact is that both players went in the rounds in which they were projected. The fact is that I pointed that out. The fact is that was approximately the time that you started doing your Dick Vermiel impression and crying about it.

You were wrong. It doesn't matter if you try to deflect that with smack talk about season records, Darrell Russell, or "we were better than you were"... the fact is that you were wrong. That won't change.

When you guys start playing professional football again in Oakland let us know.

As opposed to that Arena League bullsh*t you guys have trotted out there the last couple of years? Yeah, okay...

[Cito Pelon]

Did I imagine that…or did you just defend Deltha?

With Deltha, the sequence was this - drafted as a talented but new to the position CB; Pro Bowl; father goes thru season long illness, then dies; has a bad year, coaches and teammates don't support him; gets traded, has a decent year.

He does have talent.

[NaptownChief]

The fact is that both players went in the rounds in which they were projected. The fact is that I pointed that out. The fact is that was approximately the time that you started doing your Dick Vermiel impression and crying about it.


As opposed to that Arena League bullsh*t you guys have trotted out there the last couple of years? Yeah, okay...


How many reports do you want me to find that believe you guys reached early? Especially on Routt? I'm sure you can find some Raider fans that agree with you also but that sure the hell doesn't "prove" anything.

As for that "Arena League bullsh*t" last I checked your team has gotten it's a$$ whipped by it the last four times they stepped on the field.

Again, when they start playing professional football in Oakland again let me know....Only difference between the Cardinals and Faiders is the Cardinals have fans that keep their mouths shut.

[Cito Pelon]

I'd separate out the trade form the draft. next year we can evaluate who the broncos actually take in those spots. but for the spots they had the broncos looked very shaky. they threw a bunch of darts at really fast cornerbacks w/ poor hands and mostly potential, then took another huge flier on maurice clarett.

not solid in the least.

"poor hands?" That's the first I've heard of that.

[jonny1]

Pretty funny, we have Chef fans and Fader fans dissing each other over their team's drafts ON A BRONCOS BOARD!

[BroncoInferno]

You mean like Antajj Hawthorne, who most experts had given a first or early second round grade? Or did you mean Ryan Riddle, who most experts had given a fourth round grade?

For the record, I don't give a sh*t whether a guy was a "reach" by conventional wisdom or not. I care whether or not the guy can play. Hell, I remember the last time Kansas City took a linebacker in the first round and everyone thought they got EXCELLENT value... of course, Percy Snow didn't quite work out, did he? That same year, Buffalo took a linebacker named Marvcus Patton in the 8th round.

In the long run, you'd have been better off reaching for the guy that could play, wouldn't you?

Like I said, I'm not worried about who was a reach or who was a steal too much... just so long as the guys can play football.

Terrific post. I'm getting sick to death of these pseudo-Nostradomas pricks babbling on about "projections" and "value". Can the guy play? That's all I wanna know. It's why I don't like the Paymah pick. Sounds like a workout warrior who was ordinary on the field. Those types rarely pan out. On the other hand, I do like the other three first day picks, because they've all played at a high level on the collegiate level. I don't give a good g*ddamn if Mel Kiper thought Foxworth was reach. I've watched him play at a pretty high level for Maryland the last couple of years, and I think he's got a good a shot as somebody like Fabian Washington, who didn't play as well Foxworth but has better "measureables". ::)

And on Clarett...who didn't think the guy would be a sure fire first rounder 2 short years ago? Not many. Did he sh*t that talent out of his system over night? People don't like the off the field stuff, and that's fine...but to act like he all of a sudden doesn't have a lot of talent is ridiculous. And don't quote me his 40 time. TD ran a 4.7.

Rant over.

[Drek]

And on Clarett...who didn't think the guy would be a sure fire first rounder 2 short years ago? Not many. Did he sh*t that talent out of his system over night? People don't like the off the field stuff, and that's fine...but to act like he all of a sudden doesn't have a lot of talent is ridiculous. And don't quote me his 40 time. TD ran a 4.7. He wouldn't have been a first round pick. A lot of FOs were asked before the draft where they saw him going, and it was as a mid second to early third. No one wanted to take a risk on a 19 year old kid getting broke in half on their team, and no one was willing to risk a #1 overall pick on that 19 year old kid with only one year of college ball under his belt.

Don't forget that Willis McGahee didn't go until the late 1st and he was a proven back who was of the right age. He had a broken leg so he was definately missing a year, but no team thought Clarett would be on the field his first year either.

Clarett does have talent though, as I just said in my last post in a different thread. He needs to try and live up to that talent though.