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Drek
04-24-2005, 04:40 AM
Simple, how would you rank the Broncos first day draft (A+ to an F), plus why.

My take

Round 2 was an overpick, we probably could have gotten Williams with our first 3rd, if not one of our comp. picks.
3A was another corner,this time a slower one.
3B what do you know, another corner, this one a runt who doesn't have anything special about him.
3C Maurice Clarrett, when there are a half dozen RBs that are much better.

The fact that we took three corners, two of which are possibly not even worth a first day pick, and an RB that everyone thought wouldn't go until round 5 at soonest, makes me hate this draft. We could have had Justin Miller or Vince Jackson, Williams at 3A anyways, Antajj Hawthorne, and Adrian McPherson. Talk about bringing in some character issues, but at least we'd know they could all play football. If we wanted a running back we should have either a) traded our 2nd or 3rd for more picks, one of which an early 5th rounder for Clarrett, or b) taken Brandon Jacobs with the last pick.

Two corners that will likely never transition from the practice squad/NFL Europe, a running back that I'm betting we'll have cut by the start of the '06 regular season, and a 2nd round selection with an upside of being a great KR/PR/Nickle back. I'd say we just had arguably the worst draft in the NFL this year, despite getting a ton of slack from not having a first rounder.

Grade: Big fat F for Shanny and Sundquist, guess its true what they say about odd numbered draft years.

Bronco LB 59
04-24-2005, 04:51 AM
I will grade the draft in three years.

Clockwork Orange
04-24-2005, 04:51 AM
I'll give them a D on first impression.

I like the Derrant Williams pick. A ballhawk who could be a nice nickel back, but more importantly a good punt returner, something we've been pining for for some time now. This pick is all that kept me from grading day 1 as an F.

Then two more corners, I guess they figure by law of averages that one of them has to pan out. I guess they didn't learn their lesson from the Nick Eason/Bryant McNeal/dozen other D-lineman they drafted in the middle rounds of the '03 draft. Quantity does not trump quality.

Then there's the Clarrett pick. I don't like it because the kid is a headcase, a problem child and hasn't played football in 2 years. That said, if you give the Broncos the benefit of the doubt on nothing else, you've got to give it to them on running backs. Maybe they felt that Bobby Turner needed a real challenge, I dunno.

I just can't believe that they went for a 3rd corner and Clarrett with Elton Brown and Anttaj Hawthorne still on the board.

Drek
04-24-2005, 05:09 AM
I guess they didn't learn their lesson from the Nick Eason/Bryant McNeal/dozen other D-lineman they drafted in the middle rounds of the '03 draft. Pretty much thats how Shanahan drafts for "need positions", once every couple of years he'll drop a ton of mid round picks on guys that he's horribly reaching for, say crap about us getting a lot of talent, etc., then we never hear from any of the chosen players again. That or he horribly reaches on the position in round 1.

I'm hoping Washington really sucks next season, because if its good enough Shanahan can't possibly screw it up.

fuzzy
04-24-2005, 05:11 AM
Overall, i'll go with a C.

D for the actual picks we made, and a B for trading out 1st rounder.

baja
04-24-2005, 05:15 AM
A+ until proven otherwise.

Now if you will excuse I wil go wax my car.

baja
04-24-2005, 05:17 AM
BTW who changed my avatar? and why?

Traveler
04-24-2005, 05:25 AM
I know everyone expected something like this. It was said (by me and others) many times earlier this week that Shanahan's selection would cause the "What the fcuk?" reaction. He didn't fail us. I won't assign a grade since it's too early.

But, I will say selecting 3 more cornerbacks is an indictment of last years selections of LeSueur and Shoate. Unless there are plans to move someone to safety, those were wasted draft picks. Can't say I'm pleased with these choices, but let's wait till training camp to see what these guys actually bring to the table.

Drek
04-24-2005, 05:26 AM
I will grade the draft in three years.
A+ until proven otherwise. People thinking crap like this is what keeps the FO from changing their horrible ways. By the time a lot of people allow themselves to be critical they've already convincing themselves that the new draft will be different, so sucking at the old ones is ok.

I think we now might just have proven ourselves to be the single worst FO at getting value out of our draft selections. Teams like KC, the Browns, etc., at least take guys were they were expected to go and then have them bust on them. We take guys that we often could have got at least a round later. Thats bad drafting, I don't care how the players pan out in the end.

Tombstone RJ
04-24-2005, 06:14 AM
It was a mind boggling first day... the first CB taken was rated as a sixth round selection... The one thing you have to admire about Shanahan is he is confident in his analysis and staff to find talent where no one else sees talent... I guess that can be a good thing, if it pans out in the end.

Right now a D--- bordering on an F+

Hopefully, one of these CBs will become a star for the Broncos, but I'm not counting on it. As for Clarette, I'll pass on saying it was a complete waste of a pick because Shanahan has been so successful in drafting RBs...

Goobzilla
04-24-2005, 06:17 AM
D for now. Believe it or not, the Clarett pick was the one I had the least amount of problems with today. We left some pretty highly rated players on the board today to reach for the CB's we got. God only knows what we'll dredge up tomorrow.

ŘrangeÇrush
04-24-2005, 06:17 AM
On first blush, I wanted to give this an F, however I like the Williams pick because we finally addressed a need with PR/KR and if he gets us consistently good starting position I'll be happy. The next two picks were head shakers, but I'll wait to see it through. We always give Shanahan grief about O'neal and Middlebrooks, but we always fail to talk about the fact that we developed both Herndon and Walls. They both kinda make up for it. I like the Maurice Clarett pick a lot, and think that people are going to love it or hate it.

Basically its like this:

#56 -- hit
#76 -- miss
#97 -- miss ( we could've had colquitt right here)
#101 -- hit

add in the fact we got a 1st and 4th next year, I'm gonna give this a B-.

:homer:

bloodsunday
04-24-2005, 06:25 AM
While I agree its too early to say, I'll give a D on first impression.

56) I was okay with Williams, I think Miller was a better choice though.

76) Don't like it at all. The guy has reach written all over him. Williams may have still been here. This pick should have been Evan Mathis.

97) I don't know anything about the guy, but the scouts seem to think he is pretty good. I'd give em' a pass on this except that he is another CB. How many do you need?

101) I hate it. We have too much success with backs to even mess with a guy like Clarett. If we were going to reach on someone, why not reach on V Jack in 2nd, or McPherson right here.

Bronco_Beerslug
04-24-2005, 06:31 AM
ZERO! Another midget from OK (that would have been available later), two more 3rd string CBs and a RB that would have been there late this afternoon.


The *Plan* has officially imploded!

bloodsunday
04-24-2005, 06:35 AM
Here's what I don't get:
1) Why take 3 CBs? Are the guys we have that bad? Why not take Justin Miller who has starter potential and special teams stud? It's obvious that of the 3 2nd year CBs and now the 3 rookies, that a few will get cut. Someone screwed up in the scouting department again. Between our draft picks invested and Champ, we have the most expensive secondary in history, and its not all that good. WTF?

2) We have needs at OL and WR that were completely ignored. We could have gotten Evan Mathis instead of a CB that was given an overall grade of 54. If Carlisle, Nalen or Hamilton goes down this season, we got nothing but scrubs. We say that Jackson is a reach, yet we reached on at least 2 of our 4 picks. At least Jackson has no character issues or baggage. WTF?

3) We take a RB with huge baggage, yet pass on a CB with a 1st round grade because of his baggage. Why not take a chance on McPherson instead? I know he has more baggage than Clarett, but a reach is a reach. WFT?

BritBronco Maniac
04-24-2005, 06:43 AM
Drafts can be evaluated imediately, not on how the players will pan out, but the value you got for your selections.
If Denver had taken Justin Miller they would have got a player that was expected to go around where they were originally picking in the first round. That would have been value.
Green Bay got a player who was almost drafted no.1, at no.24, that was value.
Randy Moss was expected to be a top five pick in his draft, but fell to the Vikings at 24ish, that was value.
Taking a player who would be there at your next pick is not value. Why take player A when you could trade the pick for more picks, or take a higher rated player, when you can get player A at your next pick? It is simply bad drafting, and that can be evaluated straight away.
Denver has done it time and again (see Paul Toveisi)

broncohaven
04-24-2005, 06:47 AM
My biggest problem is in the value department. Shanny said Williams was their guy, but he would have easily lasted into the third round. If we didn't like anyone else at least give up #56 and move down again.

I think Williams would have been there even at #76, and that would have looked much better if we had taken Vincent Jackson with #56. The other two CBs would have been available in the 5th at least, and Clarett might not have been drafted at all. He certainly would have been there in the 6th.

I won't pass any judgement on the players until I have a feel for them, but I don't think we maximized value at all. For that I give this a C-. Would be a D if we didn't get out of the first round.

DrFate
04-24-2005, 06:50 AM
The grade is an F. All 4 picks were reaches (I am getting used to that) - the worst part is good players were on the board at positions of needs (like Brown, Hawthorne, or Colquitt).

Is this time THAT solid on the OLine? Is the Cleveland Fab Four THAT good on DLine to pass on first round talent? Didn't we just bring in an overrated fat running back?

I can't imagine how this draft could have been worse unless we picked no one at all - at least that would help the cap.

Ray Finkle
04-24-2005, 07:00 AM
How can you rate a draft that takes two to three years to see how it went?

BritBronco Maniac
04-24-2005, 07:17 AM
Finkle, read the thread, it may take a couple of years to see how players pan out, but at this stage you can rate a draft on the value a team gets for its picks.

Tombstone RJ
04-24-2005, 07:19 AM
I'm dissappointed with the Broncos, but we will discuss them ad nausium the next few weeks. Right now, I'll be generous with a "D"

The Chefs are trying to make a splash with Derrick Johnson. I think its pretty clear that Goonther wants another Derrick Thomas and he thinks Johnson is Thomas reincarnated. I'll be generous and give the chef's an "A" for right now. That punter in the third could be a nice pick up for them too.

As for the Faiders I think Routt is a nice pick up. I didn't see the Andrew Walter pick coming but this must be a Norv Turner type of QB. Basically the faid went CB, CB, QB, ILB. The defense seems to be their focus. Right now, I'll give the faid a solid "B+"

Good God I'm really starting to hate Sandy Eggo. They get a monster in Merriman and a monster of a WR in Vincent Jackson. Between VJ and Antonio Gates at, along with LT running the ball, not to mention Brees and Rivers, the Chargers are looking young and loaded. I hate them, bastards. I give them an "A+" bastards.

I'm bitter, but realistic. What's your grades so far?

Theway
04-24-2005, 07:21 AM
No one can tell how any of these players will pan out. They could all have all-pro potential. The problem is, when you draft all at them at the same position, or a position which is crowded, how are they gonna prove that they're players? They're barely going to get a chance.

For that reason, F.

That grade also carries to last year's draft. The team is now carrying 9 corners (let's see how many they draft today), 6 of which have been obtained in the last two years (Roc, who was ahead of the other two from last year, was undrafted). That means that of the 5 draft picks spent on corners the last two years, at least a couple of them won't even make the team this year.

No one here is an expert, nor have they really seen any of these players to know whether or not they will pan out. But the Broncos draft STRATEGY is definitey an F.

Bronco_Beerslug
04-24-2005, 07:24 AM
How can you rate a draft that takes two to three years to see how it went?
Sometimes you can, sometimes you can't, this is one of those that only takes a few minutes to evaluate.

Ray Finkle
04-24-2005, 07:26 AM
Finkle, read the thread, it may take a couple of years to see how players pan out, but at this stage you can rate a draft on the value a team gets for its picks.


I did, I just think it's silly to give a grade out right now. Value can only truly be seen when the team steps on the field...

stoxman
04-24-2005, 07:28 AM
Drafts can be evaluated imediately, not on how the players will pan out, but the value you got for your selections.
If Denver had taken Justin Miller they would have got a player that was expected to go around where they were originally picking in the first round. That would have been value.
Green Bay got a player who was almost drafted no.1, at no.24, that was value.
Randy Moss was expected to be a top five pick in his draft, but fell to the Vikings at 24ish, that was value.
Taking a player who would be there at your next pick is not value. Why take player A when you could trade the pick for more picks, or take a higher rated player, when you can get player A at your next pick? It is simply bad drafting, and that can be evaluated straight away.
Denver has done it time and again (see Paul Toveisi)


YES! FINALLY SOMEONE WHO MAKES SENSE AROUND HERE...MEGA=DITTO'S!
This draft sucks so far!

long beach bronco
04-24-2005, 07:29 AM
For us not to pick up Vincent Jackson in the 2nd and then see the hated Chargers pick him just made me go puke, UN-FREAKIN-BELIEVEABLE!!!! Then it got worse with all of the CB overkill, and then Clarett. I love my broncos, but we won't get any where with Shanny drafting. I don't care how many first round picks we have next season, i have no confidence in this management to pick quality players. Draft picks are so coveted and then we throw them in the trash with overkilll picks like this. I am very dissapointed in the moves we made on Saturday. Bowlen needs to step in and get a "real" GM and let Shanny just coach. GRADE F.

stoxman
04-24-2005, 07:29 AM
The grade is an F. All 4 picks were reaches (I am getting used to that) - the worst part is good players were on the board at positions of needs (like Brown, Hawthorne, or Colquitt).

Is this time THAT solid on the OLine? Is the Cleveland Fab Four THAT good on DLine to pass on first round talent? Didn't we just bring in an overrated fat running back?

I can't imagine how this draft could have been worse unless we picked no one at all - at least that would help the cap.


YES...more sense being made! Nice post. REP.

Ray Finkle
04-24-2005, 07:30 AM
For us not to pick up Vincent Jackson in the 2nd and then see the hated Chargers pick him just made me go puke, UN-FREAKIN-BELIEVEABLE!!!! Then it got worse with all of the CB overkill, and then Clarett. I love my broncos, but we won't get any where with Shanny drafting. I don't care how many first round picks we have next season, i have no confidence in this management to pick quality players. Draft picks are so coveted and then we throw them in the trash with overkilll picks like this. I am very dissapointed in the moves we made on Saturday. Bowlen needs to step in and get a "real" GM and let Shanny just coach. GRADE F.


Jackson was a reach even at the 56. THe only reason the Chargers took him is because the Broncos took the player they wanted at 56....

KansasBronco
04-24-2005, 07:32 AM
What a joke people! First of all, I haven't missed a pick in the draft in 10 years. I've seen this stuff so many times. Give a F before the guys even get to camp? Reach, according to who? You?

Our first pick is a guy that will make us better in an area that was awful last year, punt and kick returns! Had he not broken his arm his senior year, Kiper and others said he would have been a first round pick. This kid can cover. How do I know, I've watched him for 4 years. He's a ballhawk with cover skills like Pac man Jones. That pick alone is worth is going to give us a future nickel corner at worst and a kick and punt returner for years.

The other two corners will compete for depth in an area where we need it. Trust that our coaches feel these guys fit our system. All 3 of these guys are rated in the top 15 of all corners in the draft by 2 different magazines I have.

Clarett, one statement! Bobby Turner wanted this kid badly. Do you know more about running backs than Turner? That's what I thought. He's hungry and is going to work harder than anyone we bring in, just watch. He's guy that was going to be first round pick. We got him with a comp pick in the 3rd round.

I see 3 of these guys helping us out and being major players for us. If that happens, this draft is a B or higher.


Just listen to this kid and you can see how hungry he is.

HEAD COACH MIKE SHANAHAN

On 2005 third-round draft choice (101st overall) RB Maurice Clarett – Ohio State
“Maurice Clarett is a running back who’s downhill running ability we really like. He obviously hasn’t played for a couple of years. We really feel like if he did play in those two years, he could have easily been a top-10, top-15 pick. We think he has that type of running skills. Obviously not playing for a couple of years, it’s not going to be automatic for him to come back but I enjoyed my conversation with him tonight and we’re going to give him a chance to fight for a position.”

On why Denver selected Clarett
“We felt like we wanted to get a running back and we had him listed. We had a couple of guys that we felt very highly of and with Maurice being there at the last pick. He was one of the guys that we felt had a big upside, especially with our zone-blocking scheme. We’ll get a chance to find out.”

On how much concern the Broncos have about previous off-field issues
I don’t think that you should get too caught up in that. He hasn’t played for a couple of years. I know his situation, what’s happened. His slate is clean and we are giving him an opportunity. Like I said, I think that he would be a top-10 or top-15 pick if he would’ve played his 3-4 years at Ohio State. Obviously, it didn’t work out that way, but we are going to give him a chance. He either takes advantage of it or he doesn’t. But we feel like it was worth the chance. We feel like we know running backs pretty good. We’ve had some success with them. We think he will fit into our system very well. Now only time will tell if he takes advantage of the situation.”

On Clarett’s 40-time at the Combine
“That could be a misconception. How do you know that he had speed at Ohio State when he ran as a freshman? Terrell Davis wasn’t, so called, very fast. But he played very fast in games and had great cutting ability. So speed isn’t always a factor. He’s got great elusiveness, the ability to make some big runs. Sometimes speed can be overrated.”

On what a player can gain or lose in two years away from the game
“I really don’t know until he gets in here and starts working out. It’s always tough for a young kid to be away for a little bit, just like it is for an older player to sit out for a year or two. He’s been working out. We’ll get him in here and see what he is able to do.”

On if Clarett seemed grateful for the chance in Denver
“I think so. (Running Backs Coach) Bobby Turner has talked to him for the last couple of years. He is a very smart individual. Bobby’s had a relationship with him over the years. He has a good feel for running backs and thinks the world of this kid.”


RB MAURICE CLARETT

On if he was surprised to be selected by the Broncos in the third round of the NFL Draft
“I had actually turned the TV off and had got in the car and was just (waiting) on tomorrow. Coach (Broncos Running Backs Coach Bobby) Turner called me, I had been keeping in close contact with him and he called me. It was just funny to hear… funny to finally get to this point.”

On if getting drafted by Denver in the third round is the “best-case scenario”
“It’s wonderful. Knowing the Denver Broncos’ system and knowing the offensive line they have and just knowing they run the ball… It’s nothing more than I can imagine. Knowing the position coach, Coach Turner, having met with him the last two years and kept in touch with him, I just feel great, and seeing the great team they have, I just can’t wait to get there. I’ll be out there tomorrow. They’ll see me there, and I’ll be working hard and just trying to help Denver win more ball games.”

On if he thought he was going to be a late-round pick
“I’m here. I’m not even talking about the Combine. The only thing I’m focusing on is winning more ball games with the team. I’m just ready to get to work. I’ve been waiting for this day for a long time, and it finally happened. Denver will win more ball games with me there.”

On if he wants to start with a clean slate in Denver
“I think it is a clean slate. I think Coach Turner knew me, and he went to bat for me and told Coach Shanahan that he should take a bet on me. I got on the phone with Coach Shanahan, and he said he liked the things I did during my freshman year (at Ohio State). We are about to get started from here. I’m just excited. I can’t wait to get there, I can’t wait to start working. I’m just ready to go.”

On what kind of shape he is in currently
“I’m in great shape right now, working out every day. I talked to Coach Turner and said, “If you need me to lose more weight, I’ll lose more weight. If you need me to run more, I’ll run more.’ Whatever they ask of me, whatever I need to do, is going to happen. I’m just in a hurry to make a contribution. I just can’t wait. It’s “Mile High,” it’s a great tradition with the program, and I just can’t wait to get out there and run for them.”

On what he knows about the Broncos’ running back situation
“I know Reuben Droughns had left. I met Tatum (Bell) last year. I know about Tatum Bell. I’m a team player, so whatever it takes to get everything done, that’s what I’m going to do. If it’s me alternating with other running backs or if it’s me getting less reps or me getting more reps, it doesn’t matter. I just can’t wait to contribute.”

stoxman
04-24-2005, 07:32 AM
Again, not just who we took...EVERY ONE A REACH...but who we didn't take...top players available at the position who we DIDN'T take.

Williams may pan out...but the other 2 corners are typical Shanny picks. He sees a speedy number and goes for it. Is Randy Moss spooking the hell outta him?

Last year we got stiffs like LaSewer and Shoate...both horrid reaches. History repeats. These other 2 corners will, most likely, be just like them.

Hercules Rockefeller
04-24-2005, 07:33 AM
F
No if's, and's or but's, this draft was horrible. Not one need was addressed except for KR/PR.

broncohaven
04-24-2005, 07:38 AM
Denver: C- (only that good because we got out of the first)

Chiefs: C I think DJ is going to flop, and they got a punter

Raiders: B- The Walters pick gets them out of the "C" range. I think Washington is speed only, and Routt won't ever start.

Chargers: This hurts, but A+ Luis Castillo and Vince Jackson on top of Merriman is about as good as you could ask for. Castillo and Merriman are perfect for the 3-4, and Jackson......I just want to puke thinking about it.

DrFate
04-24-2005, 07:40 AM
Broncos - F
Raiders - remember that getting Moss should be considered part of their 'draft strategy'. They added Moss and still had a first round pick by moving Jolley. A-
Chiefs - a solid B+
Bolts - A+ - they had 2 first round picks from the Manning deal and added players that should help soon

Every team in the division is better than last season except Denver.

long beach bronco
04-24-2005, 07:40 AM
We could have done a whole lot better with our 4 picks on Saturday, now watch Shanny trade one or two of our picks next season just to pick some more stiffs in the 4th and 5th rounds this season. He'll already be throwing next years picks out the window. The truth is the truth, our draft was B A D.................BAD. :(

long beach bronco
04-24-2005, 07:49 AM
Every one got better except us, we reached while everyone else in our division took quality and need. Now Vincent Jackson is the enemy? I really need to go puke. Oakland-A Kansas City-A San Diego-A+ Denver-F. Remember that show "Good Times" with JJ back in the '70's? I'll now recite the words of Florida Evans when she finds out that her husband James has been killed-------"DAMN.............DAMN..........DAMN." :(

Old Dude
04-24-2005, 07:49 AM
We haven't had a decent punt returner around here since Darius Gordon. It's sad that it had to come to this - - burning a 2nd rounder for what's basically a specialist - - but I guess they figured it had to be done.

Foxworth didn't shock me at 3b. In our Mock, I took him even higher than that. He reminds me a lot of Cory Chavous. He was a 40-game starter at Maryland, is pretty fluid in coverage, and is an intelligent guy who puts in the extra time studying game films. The knocks on him were that he had only modest speed, and wasn't very good at coming up to stop the run. He was originally projected as a 4th or 5th rounder. But he showed surprising speed in the workouts (3.4) and his stock was rising considerably because of that. I don't think he was a big reach.

DrFate
04-24-2005, 07:51 AM
Our first pick is a guy that will make us better in an area that was awful last year, punt and kick returns! Had he not broken his arm his senior year, Kiper and others said he would have been a first round pick. This kid can cover. How do I know, I've watched him for 4 years. He's a ballhawk with cover skills like Pac man Jones. That pick alone is worth is going to give us a future nickel corner at worst and a kick and punt returner for years.

Why spend your first pick on a kick returner?

Is this team so set at DLine, OLine, WR, and safety that we can draft DEPTH on day1?

Tombstone RJ
04-24-2005, 07:53 AM
Sandy Eggo is certainly looking scary. They seem to be making a rapid recovery from the Ryan Leaf fiasco.

Bronco_Beerslug
04-24-2005, 07:53 AM
I'd been a lot a happier taking a shot at a punter than drafting every DB in college.

DrFate
04-24-2005, 07:54 AM
It isn't so much that we took 3 corners or Clarett. It is that we took 3 corners and Clarett when others guys, guys who were 1st and 2nd round talents, were still on the board.

Hawthorne could be a major guy in the DLine rotation. Brown could start at guard right away. A lot of people on this board love Jackson - he could contribute and be a player (and will be for the Bolts).

Too many good players passed so we could play Chicken Little and worry about Peyton Manning all off-season. Don't worry guys - we won't be seeing Indy in the playoffs this year.

Bronco_Beerslug
04-24-2005, 08:02 AM
Chiefs = B
Raiders = B
Chargers = A
Broncos = Z (slept through draft)

Play2win
04-24-2005, 08:07 AM
I don't mind the 2nd rounder, if he turns into a great returner.

BUT, I think SoCal was right, we should have traded up a few spots in the 2nd we could have had either Dan Cody, or my personal favorite, K Barnes. I was thinking of taking him in the first, before the trade. Foster and Barnes would have been a nice combo.

Oh, its the 2nd day, time to go scrounging for some CRUMBS...

bendog
04-24-2005, 08:07 AM
you can't rate a draft now, esp w/o a first pick. You can rate "plans." This draft was stocked with WR and CB prospects in the 3rd and 4th. Middlebrooks has the leg and Walls needs to be signed longterm. Rock showed some promise, but got burned bad as a rook. Den wanted to get some depth in the backfield and a PR guy. That was achievable with the talent in the draft. They picked guys to fit the need and didnt' force stuff.

Bronco_Beerslug
04-24-2005, 08:10 AM
They picked guys to fit the need and didnt' force stuff.

Drugs?

DrFate
04-24-2005, 08:12 AM
Clayton from ESPN.com:
• Denver Broncos: Organizationally, the Broncos, like the Cowboys last year, profited by making a bold trade. No one can question the move to get a No. 1 and No. 4 in 2006 from the Redskins along with a third-round choice by giving up their No. 1 pick. But taking three cornerbacks is a little shaky and does nothing to help their other units. The Broncos were obviously looking to the future by taking cornerbacks Darrent Williams, Karl Paymah and Domonique Foxworth. At best, only one will break into the nickel spot this year. Their special teams might be better, but the Broncos didn't do enough for this year. Then they made matters worse by ending the first day of the draft by selecting former Ohio State running back Maurice Clarett. At this juncture, Clarett seems more like a practice squad player than a back ready to step in and make an impact. The Cowboys sacrificed some of the 2004 season by looking ahead to 2005. The Broncos plan to go to the Super Bowl every year. While this draft may be great for 2006, what about 2005?

Northman
04-24-2005, 08:14 AM
i cant give a grade on it cause i have no way of knowing how these guys will turn out. but 3 CB's? and now Clarett? i had a feeling we would take Clarett after trading our 25th pick but i most certainly thought it would come down the road. and like someone else mentioned, Elton Brown is still there but may be gone before we get our next pick today. i would have much rathered taken 2 Olineman, Jackson, and Foxworth rather than what we have now. Shanahan just continues to boggle the mind right now. disappointing.

DrFate
04-24-2005, 08:14 AM
Kiper has half our day one picks as 'reaches'

Play2win
04-24-2005, 08:15 AM
I think another thing Shanahan has been trying to do is, both this year and last year, is round out our special teams. Our coverage teams need guys that can fly and tackle. It could save us, on the average, around 10 yards per opponents possession. Our coverage teams have been weak, now they are trying to solidify them. Not only on coverages, but it would allow for bigger returns. I think thats part of the reason for ALL THESE DBs we've been picking over the last two years.

There are 3 teams to each football team. Offense, Defense and SPECIAL TEAMS. If our Special Teams begin to rock, then I'm OK with these picks, if they don't, I'm NOT.

DrFate
04-24-2005, 08:16 AM
i cant give a grade on it cause i have no way of knowing how these guys will turn out. but 3 CB's? and now Clarett? i had a feeling we would take Clarett after trading our 25th pick but i most certainly thought it would come down the road. and like someone else mentioned, Elton Brown is still there but may be gone before we get our next pick today. i would have much rathered taken 2 Olineman, Jackson, and Foxworth rather than what we have now. Shanahan just continues to boggle the mind right now. disappointing.

That's my whole problem - a guy like Brown could step in and start. We need a guard. Instead we reach on guys who can't possibly start - how many DBs can you put on the field???

bendog
04-24-2005, 08:17 AM
Rating a draft personnel wise this early is .... well, not stupid but it's more a sign of boredom than real. But you can rate strategies.

Den: no first rd talent avail at 25. Moved to next year. Good DB talent in the 3rd and 4th. Rolled the dice. Need a slot guy. Good plan. Clarett? Well, bobby turner called that one, and he's got the track record.

Oak: Two real decent corner prospects. Walter? I only saw him once, and he was misfiring. A& likes castoffs, so I'm surprised at the pick. Morrison? Bottom line, A$ used his first to get the best WR in football, then manuevered back up to fill his needs with Woodson and the buchanan flop. Decent.\

KC - total fu, as usual. They wanted TDavis, but Car took him one slot earlier, AND Carle the genius blew his 2 pick an dhad no 3rd to move up on the Bob the Boob's "elite" corner with degernative knees. AND not only did Surtain cost the Chorfs ANY ability to move UP and get their guy, MIA GOT ROTH THE EDGE RUSHER WITH THE CHORF'S PICK

rolflmao. I love Carl; hope he stays ten years.

bloodsunday
04-24-2005, 08:18 AM
It's not the reach element that makes it an F. It's the fact that they say they won't reach on Jackson (fair) and then reach on three CBs (unfair) and Clarett (unfair) but not McPherson (fair). They are all screwed up.

Combine that with the fact that they have spent 6 picks in two years on one position? That is poor draft management. I ask you all: how good were the steelers, falcons, and new england in the secondary last season? Those were three of the 4 title contenders and we were as good as all of them in the secondary. Its about applying QB pressure, plain and simple. We could have an all star cast in the secondary and it won't matter if we don't pressure the QB.

We are wasting pick after pick and have essentially thrown LeSeur and Shoate into the garbage. Not to mention Young and Brandon. We are horrible at this.

DrFate
04-24-2005, 08:19 AM
I think another thing Shanahan has been trying to do is, both this year and last year, is round out our special teams. Our coverage teams need guys that can fly and tackle. It could save us, on the average, around 10 yards per opponents possession. Our coverage teams have been weak, now they are trying to solidify them. Not only on coverages, but it would allow for bigger returns. I think thats part of the reason for ALL THESE DBs we've been picking over the last two years.

There are 3 teams to each football team. Offense, Defense and SPECIAL TEAMS. If our Special Teams begin to rock, then I'm OK with these picks, if they don't, I'm NOT.

I think we have neglected that phase of the game for too long, yes. But can't that be addressed on day 2? We took a kick returner, 2 nickel back CANDIDATES (who says they will be better than Middlebrooks), and a fat slow RB.

:(

bloodsunday
04-24-2005, 08:21 AM
Broncos = Z (slept through draft)
Rep for that!

Rock Chalk
04-24-2005, 08:21 AM
I'll give them a D on first impression.

I like the Derrant Williams pick. A ballhawk who could be a nice nickel back, but more importantly a good punt returner, something we've been pining for for some time now. This pick is all that kept me from grading day 1 as an F.

Agreed. We got a ballhawk with great instincts for the ball and can kick return. Two birds, one stone.

Then two more corners, I guess they figure by law of averages that one of them has to pan out. I guess they didn't learn their lesson from the Nick Eason/Bryant McNeal/dozen other D-lineman they drafted in the middle rounds of the '03 draft. Quantity does not trump quality.

We can just go ahead and give all three of these chumps some money and send them on their way because not even Clarett is going to see a lot of playing time. F*ck Clarett.

Then there's the Clarrett pick. I don't like it because the kid is a headcase, a problem child and hasn't played football in 2 years. That said, if you give the Broncos the benefit of the doubt on nothing else, you've got to give it to them on running backs. Maybe they felt that Bobby Turner needed a real challenge, I dunno.

Bobby Turner does not deserve this headache.

I just can't believe that they went for a 3rd corner and Clarrett with Elton Brown and Anttaj Hawthorne still on the board.
Anttaj Hawthorne is good? Elton Brown is good? I dont think it really much matters who we picked this year, all we were ever going to get was role players out of this draft anyway.

Play2win
04-24-2005, 08:21 AM
SIZE and SPEED is what you need in today's NFL

Shanahan has improved our team speed quite a bit this off season. But right now, I think we need to improve our TEAM SIZE. As a matter of a fact, for the next few years, I hope we concentrate on improving our team size, ESPECIALLY IN THE TRENCHES!!!!

bloodsunday
04-24-2005, 08:24 AM
Clayton from ESPN.com:
• Denver Broncos: Organizationally, the Broncos, like the Cowboys last year, profited by making a bold trade. No one can question the move to get a No. 1 and No. 4 in 2006 from the Redskins along with a third-round choice by giving up their No. 1 pick. But taking three cornerbacks is a little shaky and does nothing to help their other units. The Broncos were obviously looking to the future by taking cornerbacks Darrent Williams, Karl Paymah and Domonique Foxworth. At best, only one will break into the nickel spot this year. Their special teams might be better, but the Broncos didn't do enough for this year. Then they made matters worse by ending the first day of the draft by selecting former Ohio State running back Maurice Clarett. At this juncture, Clarett seems more like a practice squad player than a back ready to step in and make an impact. The Cowboys sacrificed some of the 2004 season by looking ahead to 2005. The Broncos plan to go to the Super Bowl every year. While this draft may be great for 2006, what about 2005?
I usually don't agree with these guys, but this is how I feel. They have sh*t canned the season.

Tombstone RJ
04-24-2005, 08:24 AM
Rating a draft personnel wise this early is .... well, not stupid but it's more a sign of boredom than real. But you can rate strategies.

Den: no first rd talent avail at 25. Moved to next year. Good DB talent in the 3rd and 4th. Rolled the dice. Need a slot guy. Good plan. Clarett? Well, bobby turner called that one, and he's got the track record.

Oak: Two real decent corner prospects. Walter? I only saw him once, and he was misfiring. A& likes castoffs, so I'm surprised at the pick. Morrison? Bottom line, A$ used his first to get the best WR in football, then manuevered back up to fill his needs with Woodson and the buchanan flop. Decent.\

KC - total fu, as usual. They wanted TDavis, but Car took him one slot earlier, AND Carle the genius blew his 2 pick an dhad no 3rd to move up on the Bob the Boob's "elite" corner with degernative knees. AND not only did Surtain cost the Chorfs ANY ability to move UP and get their guy, MIA GOT ROTH THE EDGE RUSHER WITH THE CHORF'S PICK

rolflmao. I love Carl; hope he stays ten years.

What about Sandy Eggo?

-Slap-
04-24-2005, 08:25 AM
Broncos 2005 Draft Grade - D minus

This draft was about fear and desperation, with a little comedy relief thrown in at the end.

I can only assume Shanahan spent the entire morning ****faced on Irish whiskey when he made those selections. In his post draft comments Mike should have simply said, "We're Peyton Manning's bitch and the Oakland wide receivers terrify me."

The Williams pick was disappointing, especially since Vincent Jackson will now haunt us twice a year, but I can recognize Williams talent. The next three picks were downright embarrassing.

bloodsunday
04-24-2005, 08:27 AM
It's a joke, a god damn joke. There is no way to say it. We have taken 6 DBs in two years and completely ignored quality WRs and OLs.

The only way they can make this up is to trade back into round 4 and clean up the mess a bit. Fred Gibson and Adrian McPherson would help.

cfh
04-24-2005, 08:29 AM

bloodsunday
04-24-2005, 08:30 AM
Karl Paymah
CB | (6'0", 204, 4.35) | WASHINGTON STATE

Scouts Grade: 54

Strengths: Is a big, experienced, physical and confident cornerback. Has very good timed speed, is a "workout warrior" and has upside. Has experience in press coverage, both in man and zone schemes. Does a good job with his press technique. Will smother receivers at the LOS and take them out of their routes. Is adept in a cover-2 look at funneling receivers inside. Has adequate awareness and recognition skills in zone coverage. Also does a very good job of protecting himself in man-coverage and won't give up many big plays. Is tough and effective in run support, and is experienced and productive on special teams.

Weaknesses: Doesn't play as fast as his 40-time would indicate. Has great agility drill times but looks somewhat stiff on film. Seems to lack some natural athleticism. Loses too much in transition when turning and running. Does not have great ball skills, either. Knocks down a lot of passes but doesn't show great hands or confidence when going for the interception. Seems to have some trouble locating the ball over his shoulder.

Overall: Paymah redshirted in 2000 and saw time as a nickel cornerback mostly as a redshirt freshman in 2001 and redshirt sophomore in 2002. He missed one game because of an ankle sprain in 2002 but also earned a starting job for three games. He started all 13 games as a junior in 2003 (55 total tackles, one INT and 10 PBU) and all 11 games as a senior in 2004 (35 tackles, two INT's and eight PBU). Paymah has very good size and speed. He is a physical cornerback that isn't afraid to mix it up in the running game he was extremely productive on special teams at the collegiate level. Paymah had an outstanding showing at the combine and has more upside than we originally thought. However, Paymah does not look nearly as fast or athletic on film and he has never been much of a playmaker. In our opinion, Paymah is worth gambling on in the middle rounds of the upcoming draft but not any earlier.

----
Three words, WTF? We could have had Evan Mathis or this stiff?

Northman
04-24-2005, 08:30 AM
It's a joke, a god damn joke. There is no way to say it. We have taken 6 DBs in two years and completely ignored quality WRs and OLs.

The only way they can make this up is to trade back into round 4 and clean up the mess a bit. Fred Gibson and Adrian McPherson would help.


how exactly is Adrian going to help? he is a headcase just like Clarett and will not get any starting time as Jake is the future of the broncos. ( jake will not get benched if you didnt learn your lesson last year ) we really need some O-line help and that is the direction the draft for us today should go.

bloodsunday
04-24-2005, 08:31 AM
how exactly is Adrian going to help?
Because if we are reaching, it should at least be for greatness.

Northman
04-24-2005, 08:33 AM
Because if we are reaching, it should at least be for greatness.

Adrian hasnt proven anything. i dont see the greatness your talking about. just because he attended a grade A college like Florida St. doesnt mean your the next Elway. i suppose you think Chris Rix is godly also?
:kiddingme

Old Dude
04-24-2005, 08:34 AM
Karl Paymah
CB | (6'0", 204, 4.35) | WASHINGTON STATE
.....
Weaknesses: Doesn't play as fast as his 40-time would indicate. Has great agility drill times but looks somewhat stiff on film. Seems to lack some natural athleticism. Loses too much in transition when turning and running. Does not have great ball skills, either. Knocks down a lot of passes but doesn't show great hands or confidence when going for the interception. Seems to have some trouble locating the ball over his shoulder.

Sounds like he'll fit right in.

Bob's your Information Minister
04-24-2005, 08:38 AM
KC - total fu, as usual. They wanted TDavis, but Car took him one slot earlier, AND Carle the genius blew his 2 pick an dhad no 3rd to move up on the Bob the Boob's "elite" corner with degernative knees. AND not only did Surtain cost the Chorfs ANY ability to move UP and get their guy, MIA GOT ROTH THE EDGE RUSHER WITH THE CHORF'S PICK

rolflmao. I love Carl; hope he stays ten years.

You're a ****ing idiot. Derrick Johnson is going to rape your offense.

ro_50
04-24-2005, 08:39 AM
You cant grade a draft until two or three years down the line. But from the picks, I like the Williams pick and Clarett was taken w compensatory pick, so I guess the justification is there to take a gamble with a pick like that. Its a gamble, but if it pans out, then its a steal and if he doesnt, he was taken w/ compensatory pick.

Clockwork Orange
04-24-2005, 08:39 AM
You're a ****ing idiot. Derrick Johnson is going to rape your offense.

Says the ****ing idiot who all of a sudden is writing Derrick Johnson's Hall of Fame speech before he's ever touched an NFL field.

Bob's your Information Minister
04-24-2005, 08:43 AM
Says the ****ing idiot who all of a sudden is writing Derrick Johnson's Hall of Fame speech before he's ever touched an NFL field.

Sorry, there's no way anyone can sit here and say the Chiefs draft hasn't been a total success so far. They got two starters in two picks. DJ is a dream come true.

Clockwork Orange
04-24-2005, 08:46 AM
Sorry, there's no way anyone can sit here and say the Chiefs draft hasn't been a total success so far. They got two starters in two picks. DJ is a dream come true.

It'll be a success when the players succeed on the field. The Chefs were fortunate that Johnson fell that far, but it does make me a bit curious as to why teams like Detroit, Dallas, San Diego & Carolina (who took Thomas Davis, a LB/S tweener ahead of him) decided to take a pass.

Remember Bob, on paper the Chefs looked like Super Bowl contenders last year.

Bob's your Information Minister
04-24-2005, 08:48 AM
It'll be a success when the players succeed on the field. The Chefs were fortunate that Johnson fell that far, but it does make me a bit curious as to why teams like Detroit, Dallas, San Diego & Carolina (who took Thomas Davis, a LB/S tweener ahead of him) decided to take a pass.

Remember Bob, on paper the Chefs looked like Super Bowl contenders last year.

Detroit is stupid, Dallas and San Diego run the 3-4, and Carolina decided they'd be better off with Thomas Davis.

-Slap-
04-24-2005, 08:49 AM
What a joke people! First of all, I haven't missed a pick in the draft in 10 years. I've seen this stuff so many times. Give a F before the guys even get to camp? Reach, according to who? You?

Our first pick is a guy that will make us better in an area that was awful last year, punt and kick returns! Had he not broken his arm his senior year, Kiper and others said he would have been a first round pick. This kid can cover. How do I know, I've watched him for 4 years. He's a ballhawk with cover skills like Pac man Jones. That pick alone is worth is going to give us a future nickel corner at worst and a kick and punt returner for years.

The other two corners will compete for depth in an area where we need it. Trust that our coaches feel these guys fit our system. All 3 of these guys are rated in the top 15 of all corners in the draft by 2 different magazines I have.

Clarett, one statement! Bobby Turner wanted this kid badly. Do you know more about running backs than Turner? That's what I thought. He's hungry and is going to work harder than anyone we bring in, just watch. He's guy that was going to be first round pick. We got him with a comp pick in the 3rd round.

I see 3 of these guys helping us out and being major players for us. If that happens, this draft is a B or higher.


Just listen to this kid and you can see how hungry he is.

HEAD COACH MIKE SHANAHAN

On 2005 third-round draft choice (101st overall) RB Maurice Clarett – Ohio State
“Maurice Clarett is a running back who’s downhill running ability we really like. He obviously hasn’t played for a couple of years. We really feel like if he did play in those two years, he could have easily been a top-10, top-15 pick. We think he has that type of running skills. Obviously not playing for a couple of years, it’s not going to be automatic for him to come back but I enjoyed my conversation with him tonight and we’re going to give him a chance to fight for a position.”

On why Denver selected Clarett
“We felt like we wanted to get a running back and we had him listed. We had a couple of guys that we felt very highly of and with Maurice being there at the last pick. He was one of the guys that we felt had a big upside, especially with our zone-blocking scheme. We’ll get a chance to find out.”

On how much concern the Broncos have about previous off-field issues
I don’t think that you should get too caught up in that. He hasn’t played for a couple of years. I know his situation, what’s happened. His slate is clean and we are giving him an opportunity. Like I said, I think that he would be a top-10 or top-15 pick if he would’ve played his 3-4 years at Ohio State. Obviously, it didn’t work out that way, but we are going to give him a chance. He either takes advantage of it or he doesn’t. But we feel like it was worth the chance. We feel like we know running backs pretty good. We’ve had some success with them. We think he will fit into our system very well. Now only time will tell if he takes advantage of the situation.”

On Clarett’s 40-time at the Combine
“That could be a misconception. How do you know that he had speed at Ohio State when he ran as a freshman? Terrell Davis wasn’t, so called, very fast. But he played very fast in games and had great cutting ability. So speed isn’t always a factor. He’s got great elusiveness, the ability to make some big runs. Sometimes speed can be overrated.”

On what a player can gain or lose in two years away from the game
“I really don’t know until he gets in here and starts working out. It’s always tough for a young kid to be away for a little bit, just like it is for an older player to sit out for a year or two. He’s been working out. We’ll get him in here and see what he is able to do.”

On if Clarett seemed grateful for the chance in Denver
“I think so. (Running Backs Coach) Bobby Turner has talked to him for the last couple of years. He is a very smart individual. Bobby’s had a relationship with him over the years. He has a good feel for running backs and thinks the world of this kid.”


RB MAURICE CLARETT

On if he was surprised to be selected by the Broncos in the third round of the NFL Draft
“I had actually turned the TV off and had got in the car and was just (waiting) on tomorrow. Coach (Broncos Running Backs Coach Bobby) Turner called me, I had been keeping in close contact with him and he called me. It was just funny to hear… funny to finally get to this point.”

On if getting drafted by Denver in the third round is the “best-case scenario”
“It’s wonderful. Knowing the Denver Broncos’ system and knowing the offensive line they have and just knowing they run the ball… It’s nothing more than I can imagine. Knowing the position coach, Coach Turner, having met with him the last two years and kept in touch with him, I just feel great, and seeing the great team they have, I just can’t wait to get there. I’ll be out there tomorrow. They’ll see me there, and I’ll be working hard and just trying to help Denver win more ball games.”

On if he thought he was going to be a late-round pick
“I’m here. I’m not even talking about the Combine. The only thing I’m focusing on is winning more ball games with the team. I’m just ready to get to work. I’ve been waiting for this day for a long time, and it finally happened. Denver will win more ball games with me there.”

On if he wants to start with a clean slate in Denver
“I think it is a clean slate. I think Coach Turner knew me, and he went to bat for me and told Coach Shanahan that he should take a bet on me. I got on the phone with Coach Shanahan, and he said he liked the things I did during my freshman year (at Ohio State). We are about to get started from here. I’m just excited. I can’t wait to get there, I can’t wait to start working. I’m just ready to go.”

On what kind of shape he is in currently
“I’m in great shape right now, working out every day. I talked to Coach Turner and said, “If you need me to lose more weight, I’ll lose more weight. If you need me to run more, I’ll run more.’ Whatever they ask of me, whatever I need to do, is going to happen. I’m just in a hurry to make a contribution. I just can’t wait. It’s “Mile High,” it’s a great tradition with the program, and I just can’t wait to get out there and run for them.”

On what he knows about the Broncos’ running back situation
“I know Reuben Droughns had left. I met Tatum (Bell) last year. I know about Tatum Bell. I’m a team player, so whatever it takes to get everything done, that’s what I’m going to do. If it’s me alternating with other running backs or if it’s me getting less reps or me getting more reps, it doesn’t matter. I just can’t wait to contribute.”


Maurice Clarett is a born con artist. Defend him ardently, though. I'm sure he'll give you more opportunities to make excuses for him in the near future.

-Slap-
04-24-2005, 08:50 AM
Dominique Foxworthy sounds like a porn star, probably tackles like one, too.

Clockwork Orange
04-24-2005, 08:52 AM
Detroit is stupid, Dallas and San Diego run the 3-4, and Carolina decided they'd be better off with Thomas Davis.

Yes, Detroit is stupid.

Dallas & San Diego run the 3-4, but Johnson bears a lot of similarity Donnie Edwards.....who plays in San Diego's 3-4.

Carolina is the one that makes me very curious.

I'm not saying that he won't be a teriffic player, he could turn out to be the best player in this draft. Just spare us the talk of him dominating anyone or anything before he's even played so much as a preseason game.

elsid13
04-24-2005, 08:52 AM
Shanny will be on the ESPN Draft coverage to talk about the Clarett decision

Northman
04-24-2005, 08:53 AM
Dominique Foxworthy sounds like a porn star, probably tackles like one, too.


If Foxworth appears on special teams you will be happily surprised.
:)

Bob's your Information Minister
04-24-2005, 08:55 AM
Yes, Detroit is stupid.

Dallas & San Diego run the 3-4, but Johnson bears a lot of similarity Donnie Edwards.....who plays in San Diego's 3-4.

Carolina is the one that makes me very curious.

I'm not saying that he won't be a teriffic player, he could turn out to be the best player in this draft. Just spare us the talk of him dominating anyone or anything before he's even played so much as a preseason game.

Sure. I just can't stand Bronco idiots proclaiming KC's draft a snafu.

Clockwork Orange
04-24-2005, 08:56 AM
Sure. I just can't stand Bronco idiots proclaiming KC's draft a snafu.

We're in no position to criticize anyone's draft.

stoxman
04-24-2005, 09:00 AM
San Diego....Did very well, decent value pix....A-/B+

KC...OUCH...great 1st pick...best punter...A

OAK....think the CB's were a tad overrated. B/B-

DEN...D-...trade with Washington was good...the player we got was the 20th rated CB so the 3rd rounder is another LaSewer type who sux. We reached as usual...even if guys pan out...coulda been had later.

Darkhawk24
04-24-2005, 09:07 AM
When grading you have to take the trades in for both the Chiefs and the Broncos.

Broncos have 2 additional picks NEXT YEAR. I didn't mind Williams in the 2nd but think we could have waited another pick. BUT with how fast CB's were going maybe we are wrong on that. The kid does look like a ball hawk with blazing speed. The next two CB's.... I am really curious to find out why we went three straight CB's. I'd have taken Faison from Florida over Clarett but he does have a lot of untapped talent. Maybe the Broncos if any team can tap into it. - C+ (Mainly because of next years picks. That was a awesome trade.)

Raiders - I don't understand why they traded up for Washington. He should have been there when they picked. Overall they had a pretty decent draft picking up to blazing speed CB's. Morrison an alright pick for ILB. I don't think they did that well considering they had to trade up to get Washington. C+

Chiefs - DJ falls to #15 and should be a instant starter in KC. There are knocks on his hitting defenders head on but that can be fixed. Surtain is better then any pick in the 2nd round. They got a punter who should start for years. Can you ask for anymore? - A-

Chargers - Merriman may be the best defense of player in the draft! For all you DJ lovers. Castillo is a big Defense of lineman that didn't slip as thought. He will do just fine. Jackson a board favorite will probably make us hate this draft for years to come. This is hopefully the draft we have next year! - A


1 - Chargers
2 - Chiefs
3 - Broncos
4 - Raiders

I give the Broncos the nod only because of the extra picks lined up for next year. In the end that will become quite big for us but we will have to wait until next year.

alanm
04-24-2005, 09:27 AM
Let's see here. Grades your asking for here.
Sandy Eggo- Merriman, Jackson and Castillo are good picks. Typical Marty picks. Solid defensive players and big receivers. B+
Oakland- As a Husker homer I think Washington was kind of a reach in the 1st. He's good and he's certainly fast but he still has technique problems. Andrew Walter may prove to be a steal at QB. Don't know much about the other 2 picks. I grade them a B
Chiefs- I loved their picks. Williams was a gift from the Gods. Everyone above us wanted offense and let him fall. And then Carolina and Detroit in a head scratching move goes for another WR. I surely thought DJ was going to Detroit. Carolina took Thomas who I think is a tweener. So we get Williams the best LB on the board. #2 goes for Surtain- no arguement there. And #3 we get the best punter in college. Who they went for early when they learned their lesson last season when Kaeding-PK was snatched from them by SD. I'll give them a B+ also
Now Denver is a head scratching case. 3 CB's and a misfit RB. I'll leave it up to Shanahan to know what he's up too. I'll leave Denvers grade up to you guys who know better. :kiddingme

Bob's your Information Minister
04-24-2005, 09:39 AM
Let's see here. Grades your asking for here.
Sandy Eggo- Merriman, Jackson and Castillo are good picks. Typical Marty picks. Solid defensive players and big receivers. B+
Oakland- As a Husker homer I think Washington was kind of a reach in the 1st. He's good and he's certainly fast but he still has technique problems. Andrew Walter may prove to be a steal at QB. Don't know much about the other 2 picks. I grade them a B
Chiefs- I loved their picks. Williams was a gift from the Gods. Everyone above us wanted offense and let him fall. And then Carolina and Detroit in a head scratching move goes for another WR. I surely thought DJ was going to Detroit. Carolina took Thomas who I think is a tweener. So we get Williams the best LB on the board. #2 goes for Surtain- no arguement there. And #3 we get the best punter in college. Who they went for early when they learned their lesson last season when Kaeding-PK was snatched from them by SD. I'll give them a B+ also
Now Denver is a head scratching case. 3 CB's and a misfit RB. I'll leave it up to Shanahan to know what he's up too. I'll leave Denvers grade up to you guys who know better. :kiddingme

We drafted Derrick Johnson, NOT DJ WILLIAMS.
ugh!~

Darkhawk24
04-24-2005, 09:41 AM
We drafted Derrick Johnson, NOT DJ WILLIAMS.
ugh!~


You only wish you had DJ Williams. As good as Johnson looks he is no DJ! :)

Slade
04-24-2005, 09:45 AM
I didn't see the Andrew Walter pick coming but this must be a Norv Turner type of QB.

Andrew Walter is essentially a Kerry Collins clone, throws a great deep ball, he may not be a Norv Turner guy, but he is an Al Davis/Raiders type of guy.

-Slap-
04-24-2005, 09:49 AM
Detroit is stupid, Dallas and San Diego run the 3-4, and Carolina decided they'd be better off with Thomas Davis.

I trust John Fox when it comes to evaluating defensive talent over Carl peterson or damn near anyone else. If he believes Thomas Davis projects as a better NFL linebacker and Derrick Johnson, I'm inclined to agree with him.

Bob's your Information Minister
04-24-2005, 09:51 AM
You only wish you had DJ Williams. As good as Johnson looks he is no DJ! :)

That remains to be seen. DJ Williams was not the best linebacker in the nation.

Derrick's just as fast as DJ and he's bigger.

Bob's your Information Minister
04-24-2005, 09:52 AM
I trust John Fox when it comes to evaluating defensive talent over Carl peterson or damn near anyone else. If he believes Thomas Davis projects as a better NFL linebacker and Derrick Johnson, I'm inclined to agree with him.

How do you know they don't want him at safety?

Tombstone RJ
04-24-2005, 09:58 AM
When grading you have to take the trades in for both the Chiefs and the Broncos.

Broncos have 2 additional picks NEXT YEAR. I didn't mind Williams in the 2nd but think we could have waited another pick. BUT with how fast CB's were going maybe we are wrong on that. The kid does look like a ball hawk with blazing speed. The next two CB's.... I am really curious to find out why we went three straight CB's. I'd have taken Faison from Florida over Clarett but he does have a lot of untapped talent. Maybe the Broncos if any team can tap into it. - C+ (Mainly because of next years picks. That was a awesome trade.)

Raiders - I don't understand why they traded up for Washington. He should have been there when they picked. Overall they had a pretty decent draft picking up to blazing speed CB's. Morrison an alright pick for ILB. I don't think they did that well considering they had to trade up to get Washington. C+

Chiefs - DJ falls to #15 and should be a instant starter in KC. There are knocks on his hitting defenders head on but that can be fixed. Surtain is better then any pick in the 2nd round. They got a punter who should start for years. Can you ask for anymore? - A-

Chargers - Merriman may be the best defense of player in the draft! For all you DJ lovers. Castillo is a big Defense of lineman that didn't slip as thought. He will do just fine. Jackson a board favorite will probably make us hate this draft for years to come. This is hopefully the draft we have next year! - A


1 - Chargers
2 - Chiefs
3 - Broncos
4 - Raiders

I give the Broncos the nod only because of the extra picks lined up for next year. In the end that will become quite big for us but we will have to wait until next year.

Great analysis. I'm reserving my judgement on the Broncos trade until next year. I'm just looking at who the Broncos took with what they had, and I don't like what I see. But, I did not consider the trades that the Broncos made, and that is important.

DrFate
04-24-2005, 09:59 AM
When grading you have to take the trades in for both the Chiefs and the Broncos.

Broncos have 2 additional picks NEXT YEAR. I didn't mind Williams in the 2nd but think we could have waited another pick. BUT with how fast CB's were going maybe we are wrong on that. The kid does look like a ball hawk with blazing speed. The next two CB's.... I am really curious to find out why we went three straight CB's. I'd have taken Faison from Florida over Clarett but he does have a lot of untapped talent. Maybe the Broncos if any team can tap into it. - C+ (Mainly because of next years picks. That was a awesome trade.)

Raiders - I don't understand why they traded up for Washington. He should have been there when they picked. Overall they had a pretty decent draft picking up to blazing speed CB's. Morrison an alright pick for ILB. I don't think they did that well considering they had to trade up to get Washington. C+

1 - Chargers
2 - Chiefs
3 - Broncos
4 - Raiders

I give the Broncos the nod only because of the extra picks lined up for next year. In the end that will become quite big for us but we will have to wait until next year.

You are forgetting that the Raiders traded their #1 pick for Randy Moss. That has to be considered - nobody had a worse draft than Denver.

Darkhawk24
04-24-2005, 10:00 AM
You are forgetting that the Raiders traded their #1 pick for Randy Moss. That has to be considered - nobody had a worse draft than Denver.


Very good point! That does put us to to #4 in the division then! ugh!~

That pushes the Fade to a B at least I guess.

Billy Clyde Puckett
04-24-2005, 10:14 AM
I guess you have to give them a chance but I really hate it. Williams is the ballhawk and returner everyone wanted, but I think there were much better ways to address that problem. The only thing I can think of in the drafting of three CBs is that they want to rid themselves of all of Gibbs' "boys" - Middlebrooks, Lesuer, Shoate, Roc. I have lost all respect for Bobby Turner who according to reports I heard last night on the radio blackmailed Shanahan/Bowlen by threatening to leave if they did not try to give him Clarett as his big turn around project.

Cito Pelon
04-24-2005, 10:19 AM
I usually don't agree with these guys, but this is how I feel. They have sh*t canned the season.

Williams apparently will contribute a lot this year. The guy has great skill, apparently. And if Bobby Turner likes Clarett, that's good enough for me. Whether he was worth a 3d, well, Denver had to get him then, or the chances of getting him dropped a lot. Same with the other guys they got in the 3d.

Seems like the two 3d round CB's have speed, but not a lot of skill, so I wonder if they weren't just a waste. They could have had a QB prospect at those picks.

-Slap-
04-24-2005, 10:20 AM
I guess you have to give them a chance but I really hate it. Williams is the ballhawk and returner everyone wanted, but I think there were much better ways to address that problem. The only thing I can think of in the drafting of three CBs is that they want to rid themselves of all of Gibbs' "boys" - Middlebrooks, Lesuer, Shoate, Roc. I have lost all respect for Bobby Turner who according to reports I heard last night on the radio blackmailed Shanahan/Bowlen by threatening to leave if they did not try to give him Clarett as his big turn around project.

You gotta be ****ing kidding me.

If that report about Turner is true, I'm even more disgusted than I was yesterday and I truly didn't believe that was possible.

Bob's your Information Minister
04-24-2005, 10:22 AM
Turner coached Clarett.

DrFate
04-24-2005, 10:23 AM
I guess you have to give them a chance but I really hate it. Williams is the ballhawk and returner everyone wanted, but I think there were much better ways to address that problem. The only thing I can think of in the drafting of three CBs is that they want to rid themselves of all of Gibbs' "boys" - Middlebrooks, Lesuer, Shoate, Roc. I have lost all respect for Bobby Turner who according to reports I heard last night on the radio blackmailed Shanahan/Bowlen by threatening to leave if they did not try to give him Clarett as his big turn around project.

Middlebrooks was a Rhodes guy. Another wasted #1 pick...

stoxman
04-24-2005, 10:24 AM
You gotta be ****ing kidding me.

If that report about Turner is true, I'm even more disgusted than I was yesterday and I truly didn't believe that was possible.


Hey Big Guy and Slap:

We need confirmation on this blackmail thing. Is Turner now a cancer? No doubting his skills but who the *F* does he think he is if this is true?

footstepsfrom#27
04-24-2005, 10:25 AM
It's an F before they even step on the field. Maybe next year we can use both #1's and all the rest of our picks on guards. In 2007 we can pick all WR's.

Shanahan's lost it. There are still some good players out there but I seriously doubt we'll get one. Of course Browner and Perkins are both good corners...but do we need 5 CB's in one draft? How 'bout another guy with possible ties to gambling? Adrian McPhearson at least can play though. I'm sure we can find a rapist, child mollestor, wife beater or drug dealer somewhere if we just look hard enough. Cowboys had a CB go to prison for killng somebody in a hit-and-run a couple years ago and WHOOHOO!--he's a CORNER! Are you listening Mike? Maybe he'll get out in 10 years--LET'S PICK HIM!

Shanahan you are SO DONE here.

Hercules Rockefeller
04-24-2005, 10:30 AM
Middlebrooks was a Rhodes guy. Another wasted #1 pick...

Middlebrooks was a Gibbs' guy. DG had just come from being Minnesota's DC that offseason.

Drek
04-24-2005, 10:30 AM
Look people, don't believe everything you hear on sports talk radio. Its pretty clear that Shanahan lets his assistants make selections, and Clarrett looks to have been Turner's selection, but don't believe bull**** from the likes of Jim Armstrong that it was all Turner blackmailing Shanahan and Sundquist. We apparently gave Slowik, our new DBs coach, our first three picks to do with what he wanted, is it so hard to believe that they let Turner, an unparalleled evaluator of talent at the RB position, make a selection?

Hercules Rockefeller
04-24-2005, 10:31 AM
I heard it the other way around. It wasn't blackmail by Turner to MS and PB, it was an offer by MS that if he stayed, they'd get him Clarett.

Rohirrim
04-24-2005, 10:32 AM
Dominique Foxworthy sounds like a porn star, probably tackles like one, too.

LOL

I give this draft a "G"

-Slap-
04-24-2005, 10:33 AM
Hey Big Guy and Slap:

We need confirmation on this blackmail thing. Is Turner now a cancer? No doubting his skills but who the *F* does he think he is if this is true?

Well, after the Gibbs departures and the total failure of the Millard experiment, it makes you wonder how much control Shanahan has over his coaching staff.

I'm still amazed by some of the guys like Millard, Hunley, or even Jimmy Haaaayslett, who wind up as coaches. You young guys take note. Look at some of the real ****up headcases around the League right now and you'll be amazed to see them in charge of coaching young players 15 years from now.

Rohirrim
04-24-2005, 10:35 AM
This Turner/Clarett thing turns my stomach. I only hope it's not true. If it is, I am firmly in the "Kick the trap-door under Shanny" camp.

-Slap-
04-24-2005, 10:36 AM
Look people, don't believe everything you hear on sports talk radio. Its pretty clear that Shanahan lets his assistants make selections, and Clarrett looks to have been Turner's selection, but don't believe bull**** from the likes of Jim Armstrong that it was all Turner blackmailing Shanahan and Sundquist. We apparently gave Slowik, our new DBs coach, our first three picks to do with what he wanted, is it so hard to believe that they let Turner, an unparalleled evaluator of talent at the RB position, make a selection?

Slowik is certainly the fairhaired child. Shanahan tried to hire him as our defensive coordinator twice, only to wind up with Rhodes and Coyer instead. Slowik was an unmitigated disaster as the DC in Green Bay and its pretty obvious Shanny is grooming him for the job here in Denver.

DBroncos4life
04-24-2005, 10:39 AM
While it is too early to tell you can't help but think that every pick was pretty close to a reach. Not good. Williams was HELD OUT of the Bowl game guys. Im not sure if people know that or not. His charcter issuse are on the same level as Millers. All three guys ran a 4.3 something in the combine. For that reason alone I will give this a D. Clarrett is 21 so if we could get 9 years out of him that would be awesome. Do I think that will happen. Im not that big of a homer.

footstepsfrom#27
04-24-2005, 10:41 AM
I give this draft a "G"

For "GAWDAWFUL"..."GHASTLY"..."GROTESQUE"...

We have a great shot at two picks in the top 10 next year though...maybe we can use them both on corners?

Bob's your Information Minister
04-24-2005, 10:41 AM
Clarrett is 21 so if we could get 9 years out of him that would be awesome.

What do you mean? Most rookies are 22.

bloodsunday
04-24-2005, 10:42 AM
Why spend your first pick on a kick returner?

Is this team so set at DLine, OLine, WR, and safety that we can draft DEPTH on day1?
Exactly. Then we spend 2 more picks on more DBs and a RB? Huh?

footstepsfrom#27
04-24-2005, 10:43 AM
I will give this a D. Clarrett is 21 so if we could get 9 years out of him that would be awesome. Do I think that will happen.

I think he could 10-20 if he puts his mind to it.

DBroncos4life
04-24-2005, 10:43 AM
What do you mean? Most rookies are 22.



I mean most running backs play tell 30 thats 9 years of use.

Bob's your Information Minister
04-24-2005, 10:45 AM
I mean most running backs play tell 30 thats 9 years of use.

So is Tatum only going to play til 30? Hell, Denver RBs only last 5 years usually if history is any indication.

bloodsunday
04-24-2005, 10:51 AM
you can't rate a draft now, esp w/o a first pick. You can rate "plans."
Well I think that you have to admit then that the Broncos are building for one year out right now. There is no way this draft has much impact on this season, Williams as a returner, maybe.

This draft was stocked with WR and CB prospects in the 3rd and 4th. Middlebrooks has the leg and Walls needs to be signed longterm. Rock showed some promise, but got burned bad as a rook. Den wanted to get some depth in the backfield and a PR guy. That was achievable with the talent in the draft.
Well first off, we don't have any 4th round picks and we burned all our 3rd rounders on ONE POSITION! What's worse, we have more or less just kicked the 3 2nd year guys to the curb. We either wasted those picks or these picks.

They picked guys to fit the need and didnt' force stuff.
I completely disagree. The forced every pick. I don't think one of these guys was rated in the round we took him. They took a returner with their first selection when there was a better returner (Miller) on the board and more later in the draft. THey totally forced that pick. Then they had to force some tall DBs to make up for the fact that their returner can't even cover a good receiver because he is too small. Then, insult to injury, they take a 6th round RB in the 3rd round when we are pretty stable at the position. This was a classic mistake in what not to do.

DBroncos4life
04-24-2005, 10:51 AM
So is Tatum only going to play til 30? Hell, Denver RBs only last 5 years usually if history is any indication.



When does everyone say they break down? Good ****ing god

Play2win
04-24-2005, 10:55 AM
I heard it the other way around. It wasn't blackmail by Turner to MS and PB, it was an offer by MS that if he stayed, they'd get him Clarett.

That is completely different. And I don't really have a problem with it. It make the pick much more palatable.

We either pick Clarett with one of our (free) 3rd rounders and keep Turner, or we pick somebody else, and Loose Bobby Turner.

If given the choice, I will take Clarett in the 3rd if we keep Turner. Its more about keeping Turner, than getting Clarett.


With the 101st pick in the 2005 NFL Draft, The Denver Broncos select Bobby Turner, unsurpassed Running Backs Coach and Talent evaluator.

F**kOakland
04-24-2005, 10:59 AM
[QUOTE=KansasBronco]What a joke people! First of all, I haven't missed a pick in the draft in 10 years. I've seen this stuff so many times. Give a F before the guys even get to camp? Reach, according to who? You?

Our first pick is a guy that will make us better in an area that was awful last year, punt and kick returns! Had he not broken his arm his senior year, Kiper and others said he would have been a first round pick. This kid can cover. How do I know, I've watched him for 4 years. He's a ballhawk with cover skills like Pac man Jones. That pick alone is worth is going to give us a future nickel corner at worst and a kick and punt returner for years.

The other two corners will compete for depth in an area where we need it. Trust that our coaches feel these guys fit our system. All 3 of these guys are rated in the top 15 of all corners in the draft by 2 different magazines I have.


Great Post


DRAFT DAY ONE "B" DRAFT DAY TWO "?"

I don't mean to be an a**hole, but come on we need depth at corner and how good did we make a maurice feel, this kid owes us and he will gladly pay.

both our running backs and our corners were in short supply last year!!

look to see other holes filled with the other two picks to get a vibe on the draft!!!


YOU DON'T HAVE TO LIKE THE PLAN FOR IT TO WORK!!!!

Evenrude
04-24-2005, 11:06 AM
OK we all know Clarrett is a headcase and a potential locker room cancer. Richie Ingonito ran a faster 40 time than him at the combine, But.....

If you look at his measurables they are very similar to Terrell Davis coming out of college... (I know, I shouldn't even put the two in the same sentence). Bobby Turner obviously see's something there and his track record is a lot better than mine or anybody else on this boards. I don't have a problem with using what was essentially a fourth round pick on the guy..... it's a high risk/high reward pick. Only about 50% of fourth rounders end up making final rosters anyway.....

Rascal
04-24-2005, 11:13 AM
The Williams pick was okay...not my first choice off the board but the guy is definetly a player and will contribute in Nickel and ST.

Clarett isn't that bad of a pick. If Bobby vouches for him that's enough for me. Makes me wonder why we signed Dayne though???

But the other two picks were just GOD AWFUL. Both players weren't expected to go into the fifth rounds at the earliest. I am stunned as to why we picked both of those guys with the talent that was still on the board. MATHIS, BROWN, AND HAWTHORNE were all passed up. I couldn't and still can't believe it.

I give this draft a D-. The fact that we get two first rounders next year should not effect this years grade...it was still a draft and there were still a lot of talent on the board (especially after we picked).

Rascal
04-24-2005, 11:14 AM
OK we all know Clarrett is a headcase and a potential locker room cancer. Richie Ingonito ran a faster 40 time than him at the combine, But.....

If you look at his measurables they are very similar to Terrell Davis coming out of college... (I know, I shouldn't even put the two in the same sentence). Bobby Turner obviously see's something there and his track record is a lot better than mine or anybody else on this boards. I don't have a problem with using what was essentially a fourth round pick on the guy..... it's a high risk/high reward pick. Only about 50% of fourth rounders end up making final rosters anyway.....

I agree...besides if we really wanted him it was a good thing we got him then because the Cowboys were going to select him in the fourth.

missingnumber7
04-24-2005, 11:28 AM
I will give this a D. Clarrett is 21 so if we could get 9 years out of him that would be awesome. Do I think that will happen.

I think he could 10-20 if he puts his mind to it.
In what prison?

bananasplit_13
04-24-2005, 11:31 AM
I will say a D - for where the players were actually taken an F, all of them were reaches... from Day 2. As for the players, I have no idea, they could all turn out to be studs, who knows. Where they were picked just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

telluride
04-24-2005, 11:31 AM
Listen, this draft is a distillation of every horrible Shanny drafting habit: REACH for an INJURED player with CHARACTER issues at a position WITHOUT PRESSING NEED, and then hope the stars align and it all somehow works out.

We did not get a single player who will help us win a single game next year. We did not get a single starter. That's a failed draft.

Now more than ever, Shanny must go.

Northman
04-24-2005, 11:32 AM
Listen, this draft is a distillation of every horrible Shanny drafting habit: REACH for an INJURED player with CHARACTER issues at a position WITHOUT PRESSING NEED, and then hope the stars align and it all somehow works out.

We did not get a single player who will help us win a single game next year. We did not get a single starter. That's a failed draft.

Now more than ever, Shanny must go.


i wont say that Shanny must go but he does need to remain just the coach and not GM. but this is nothing new we all know he hasnt drafted well the last few years.

Play2win
04-24-2005, 11:47 AM
In what prison?
15 will get ya 20 ;D

Northman
04-24-2005, 11:49 AM
I just dont understand this. we missed so MANY opportunities this weekend. and none of them would have cost us a arm and a leg it just doesnt make a lot of sense. i would have rather taken a player like Pearman out of UVA instead of Clarett if your going to reach for a RB. Foxworth is worthy of being a decent corner if not a great special teams player. but to draft 2 more CB's especially early on? we totally overshot chances to draft OL or DE when there were still good players listed there. and now, we might miss drafting Vincent Jackson if we havent already. crazy man, just crazy.

TexanBob
04-24-2005, 12:06 PM
First day grade: D-.

They took four guys who should have been there on the second day. I think they took the guys they wanted to take had they still had second day picks.

footstepsfrom#27
04-24-2005, 12:21 PM
In what prison?

Canyon City maybe...or some Federal Penn, depending on the infractions.

Drek
04-24-2005, 12:22 PM
we might miss drafting Vincent Jackson if we havent already. We did, he went to the Chargers in the late 2nd, with the 64th overall pick.

bendog
04-24-2005, 12:37 PM
What about Sandy Eggo?

I had to go to church; Little Girl Dog sang in choir. 3 hours for church is too damn long. I'm an episcopal not a babtist/mormon.

I had a question about SD's draft. I thought they had mult picks from the Eli trade? So, since my take is it's stupid (hi boob) or a sign of boredom to gripe or rate about individual guys who were generally taken around the spot they were rated (Clarett). So, I really don't have the knowledge to comment on what SD did. Knee jerk is that i thought they'd have more picks, but maybe they moved up.

Did they trade up for the Merriman slot, or was that the giants? Anyway, I think the consensus was Merriman was the top "edge" guy who also had some cover ability ... but dullass took Ware over him, so I dunno. Nobody in denver (besides stockman) would bitch if Den had him. I thought I heard Castillo juiced? Jackson maybe went a little high, but he was on the rise. Since he was the homer fav, I don't trust the info on this board on him. I though he'd go in the 3rd.

But, Carl's draft was hilarious, as ususal. It's like the guy has no plan, and other GMs hate his ass and won't trade unless they rape him (Surtain - did I mention they could've had Roth?).

Mr. Trout
04-24-2005, 12:38 PM
I am pissed with this draft, but I knew it was coming. I am pissed that we didn't land any of the following: Vincent Jackson, Justin Miller, Darren Sproles, Marion Barber III.

Billy Clyde Puckett
04-24-2005, 02:17 PM
Middlebrooks was a Rhodes guy. Another wasted #1 pick...


Middlebrooks was a Gibbs (Jr) Guy. Gibbs coached him at Minn just before he came to the Broncs.

Ballhawk
04-24-2005, 02:40 PM
I am so completly fine with this draft it is amazing even to myself. We have gone into the playoffs twice without a full set of healthy DBs and been ripped by Indy twice. I think we have found a very decent nickleback/Returner. If he doesn't handle the nickle we have another and another. Just because you draft a guy that does not mean you have filled a need, that guy could bust or get hurt. I think Shanny saw some real value at the CB position and took advantage of it.

What is even more amazing is that any Denver fan would still question a RB selection made by Turner...You have to be kidding me right?

bananasplit_13
04-24-2005, 02:42 PM
I am so completly fine with this draft it is amazing even to myself. We have gone into the playoffs twice without a full set of healthy DBs and been ripped by Indy twice. I think we have found a very decent nickleback/Returner. If he doesn't handle the nickle we have another and another. Just because you draft a guy that does not mean you have filled a need, that guy could bust or get hurt. I think Shanny saw some real value at the CB position and took advantage of it.

What is even more amazing is that any Denver fan would still question a RB selection made by Turner...You have to be kidding me right?

Again, I don't think anyone questions *who* the picks are, we don't know how good/bad they will turn out to be. It's the *where* that is bothering a lot people, myself included.

Ballhawk
04-24-2005, 02:45 PM
Again, I don't think anyone questions *who* the picks are, we don't know how good/bad they will turn out to be. It's the *where* that is bothering a lot people, myself included.


There are some "projected" 2nd and 3rd rounders still on the board. Truth is this draft was so weak I do not think anyone had an idea what would happen outside the top 25 picks.

bananasplit_13
04-24-2005, 02:47 PM
There are some "projected" 2nd and 3rd rounders still on the board. Truth is this draft was so weak I do not think anyone had an idea what would happen outside the top 25 picks.

Oh believe me I've been screaming at my computer every time someone doesn't take Wilkerson, Browner, Shazor, etc...

I'm just surprised we didn't jump all over Justin Miller when we had the chance. Darrent Williams may be a better returner but Miller had the skills to be a starting corner in a few years. Also, picking 2 day 2 corners at 76 and 101 when there were much better players available honestly just makes me wonder why, if we were determined to get these players, we didn't trade down and acquire more picks?

Ballhawk
04-24-2005, 02:56 PM
Oh believe me I've been screaming at my computer every time someone doesn't take Wilkerson, Browner, Shazor, etc...

I'm just surprised we didn't jump all over Justin Miller when we had the chance. Darrent Williams may be a better returner but Miller had the skills to be a starting corner in a few years. Also, picking 2 day 2 corners at 76 and 101 when there were much better players available honestly just makes me wonder why, if we were determined to get these players, we didn't trade down and acquire more picks?

All I know is that our defensive backfield has been in shambles the last two times we got to the playoffs. IF this finally fixes the problem then I am ok with it. Darrent was the target all along so Miller was not even a factor. From what I have read up on Darrent he is a better cover guy than Miller. Did we take a career nickleback...yes, but we play nickle so much he will practically be a starter.

bananasplit_13
04-24-2005, 02:59 PM
All I know is that our defensive backfield has been in shambles the last two times we got to the playoffs. IF this finally fixes the problem then I am ok with it. Darrent was the target all along so Miller was not even a factor. From what I have read up on Darrent he is a better cover guy than Miller. Did we take a career nickleback...yes, but we play nickle so much he will practically be a starter.

Which would be awesome, I would love that. Doesn't change the fact that we could've traded into the third round to take him and got more picks.

Ballhawk
04-24-2005, 03:04 PM
Which would be awesome, I would love that. Doesn't change the fact that we could've traded into the third round to take him and got more picks.

You never know, how many times was the word reached used for every team out there? Denver knew the player they wanted just like they did last year with Tator and Watts, both turned into to decent value picks even tho we took them early.

Maybe Shanny did try to trade down from #76, but Williams was his guy no doubt as he turned in the pick in like 2 mins.

bananasplit_13
04-24-2005, 03:07 PM
You never know, how many times was the word reached used for every team out there? Denver knew the player they wanted just like they did last year with Tator and Watts, both turned into to decent value picks even tho we took them early.

Maybe Shanny did try to trade down from #76, but Williams was his guy no doubt as he turned in the pick in like 2 mins.

It's certainly a possibility. As for Tator and Watts, I know nothing of the specifics, I was in Australia for the draft, and for some reason the coverage there was horrible. Can't imagine why though. :loopy:

TheDave
04-24-2005, 03:10 PM
I could Draft better than Shanahan... If i drafted we would only pick up pro-bowlers and never draft a bust... According to my boards we could of picked player X a full 2 rounds later...Blah, Blah, Blah

Sad thing is I'll bet most of these numb nuts actually believe it... :bash:

Ballhawk
04-24-2005, 03:12 PM
It's certainly a possibility. As for Tator and Watts, I know nothing of the specifics, I was in Australia for the draft, and for some reason the coverage there was horrible. Can't imagine why though. :loopy:

Last year Tator was a late 2nd/3rd rounder and Watts a late 3rd/4th. We took Tator early 2nd Watts late 2nd. Many here thought we could have traded down to a late 2nd and got both. You never know and if you have done a good job scouting guys then 10 picks doesnt mean squat. Most of the guys from round 1-3 this year will bust anyways, lets just hope we don't have any :)

alanm
04-24-2005, 04:08 PM
We drafted Derrick Johnson, NOT DJ WILLIAMS.
ugh!~
Sorry... I was still asleep this morning when I was reading this thread. ???
Anyway he's still a steal at 15.

BroncoBuff
08-25-2010, 11:12 PM
BTW who changed my avatar? and why?

Sheesh, what a ninny.

BroncoBuff
08-25-2010, 11:15 PM
Pretty much thats how Shanahan drafts for "need positions", once every couple of years he'll drop a ton of mid round picks on guys that he's horribly reaching for, say crap about us getting a lot of talent, etc., then we never hear from any of the chosen players again. That or he horribly reaches on the position in round 1.

Can you say "Jarvis Moss?"

baja
08-25-2010, 11:20 PM
People thinking crap like this is what keeps the FO from changing their horrible ways. By the time a lot of people allow themselves to be critical they've already convincing themselves that the new draft will be different, so sucking at the old ones is ok.

I think we now might just have proven ourselves to be the single worst FO at getting value out of our draft selections. Teams like KC, the Browns, etc., at least take guys were they were expected to go and then have them bust on them. We take guys that we often could have got at least a round later. Thats bad drafting, I don't care how the players pan out in the end.

Even though I could see the cracks beginning to show I admit I gave Shanahan the benefit of the doubt those last three years, that is until the last three games of his last season. Sadly that is when it became crystal clear that he had lost his players. They quit and Shanny signed them

baja
08-25-2010, 11:21 PM
Sheesh, what a ninny.

butt hurt are we?

BroncoBuff
08-25-2010, 11:40 PM
butt hurt are we?

We? You maybe, me not so much.

montrose
08-25-2010, 11:54 PM
Can you say "Jarvis Moss?"

Honestly, Moss wasn't much of a reach - I believe he went right around where he was supposed to go.

BroncoBuff
08-26-2010, 12:02 AM
Honestly, Moss wasn't much of a reach - I believe he went right around where he was supposed to go.

Well, as long as we're in Broncos drat history mode ... Did we ever figure out whether trading up for Jarvis was required? Somebody else was going to take him ...?


LOL ... that typo is a scream ... "drat" history? ... "Freud and the Art of Screwing up First Round Picks" ... DRATS!

epicSocialism4tw
08-26-2010, 12:23 PM
I am pissed with this draft, but I knew it was coming. I am pissed that we didn't land any of the following: Vincent Jackson, Justin Miller, Darren Sproles, Marion Barber III.

This dude can call 'em, cant he?

Well done.

Tombstone RJ
08-26-2010, 12:31 PM
If Shanahan would have drafted Marion Barber instead of MoClar... yah, that would have been epic...

Drek
08-26-2010, 01:34 PM
If Shanahan would have drafted Marion Barber instead of MoClar... yah, that would have been epic...

Hell, I was screaming for Brandon Jacobs all that draft. Jacobs in the ZBS would've been unreal.

BroncoBuff
08-26-2010, 03:32 PM
Hell, I was screaming for Brandon Jacobs all that draft. Jacobs in the ZBS would've been unreal.

Your posts look damn good in hindsight, pal.

But I though you hate it when people bump old threads?

Drek
08-26-2010, 03:57 PM
Your posts look damn good in hindsight, pal.

But I though you hate it when people bump old threads?

When its used as face rubbing material? Sure do.

Even when not used for douche purposes I'm generally not a fan, but if a reasonable discourse breaks out I'll partake.

Dukes
08-26-2010, 06:52 PM
Nice bump.

watermock
08-26-2010, 07:46 PM
hThis was bumped after the 05 draft, before the Goodmans took over drafting duties.

The 2000-05 drafts were pretty bad. The 06 draft was solid gold and 08 was good too.

The late Shanahan FA picks were abysmal as well.

Don't tell me Slowdick latched on with Washington.

Coversely, McD has done pretty well in FA and trades, but get real, Denver has had multiple high picks the past 2 seasons and not much to show for it, especially immediate impact players like Marshall, yes, Cutler, (who we got a kings ransom for) Kuper and Clady along with Doom.

Even Harris and Walker(trade) and Hixon were good picks.

The fact we got home field in the 05 AFC game was a total fluke.

The 1991 and '97 teams were better, (the loss at home to Jax on that freak run by SB and dumb penaties.)still is hard to bear.

Losses at home to Oak and KC are also fresh after going 6-0 with 2 miracle wins. that seems 2 years ago, so much has changed.

My predition is now 9-7 this year after the loss of Doom and Clady's questionmark. We have a pretty easy ride, but sorry, this team has very few playmakers.

And the fact we play the 2 weakest divisions in the NFL this year.

watermock
08-26-2010, 07:53 PM
Let's not get too excited.

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Drek
08-27-2010, 03:33 AM
Coversely, McD has done pretty well in FA and trades, but get real, Denver has had multiple high picks the past 2 seasons and not much to show for it, especially immediate impact players like Marshall, yes, Cutler, (who we got a kings ransom for) Kuper and Clady along with Doom.
Marshall and Cutler played a handful of games their first season. Kuper didn't play at all his first year.

The only year one impact players Shanahan drafted post-Clinton Portis where Clady, Royal, DJ, Darrent Williams, and Doom. Averaged less than one a year. Moreno was the starter all last season, so McDaniels already beat that average in year one.

Cito Pelon
08-27-2010, 09:24 AM
Well, all three CB's drafted in 2005 are/would still be in the league (RIP Darrent Williams).

Drek
08-27-2010, 09:39 AM
Well, all three CB's drafted in 2005 are/would still be in the league (RIP Darrent Williams).

And none would be particularly good.

Foxworth - wildly overrated and overpaid off of a partial season of performance in ATL. Even before getting hurt Ravens fans where worried about his production.

Paymah - career dime guy.

Darrent Williams - best of the bunch, life ended far too soon, but was also not a standout corner or returner up to that point.

Three picks between the mid-2nd to mid-3rd and even if tragedy had not befallen Williams we're looking at one solid starter at best.

Yet McDaniels is expected to have his first draft class all be vying for ROY honors out of the gates.

Cito Pelon
08-27-2010, 11:00 AM
And none would be particularly good.

Foxworth - wildly overrated and overpaid off of a partial season of performance in ATL. Even before getting hurt Ravens fans where worried about his production.

Paymah - career dime guy.

Darrent Williams - best of the bunch, life ended far too soon, but was also not a standout corner or returner up to that point.

Three picks between the mid-2nd to mid-3rd and even if tragedy had not befallen Williams we're looking at one solid starter at best.

Yet McDaniels is expected to have his first draft class all be vying for ROY honors out of the gates.

These arguments will go on for a long time, and that's ok. Hell, there's still arguments on this board comparing drafts between John Ralston, Red Miller, Dan Reeves, Wade Phillips, and Shanahan.

Drek
08-27-2010, 01:38 PM
These arguments will go on for a long time, and that's ok. Hell, there's still arguments on this board comparing drafts between John Ralston, Red Miller, Dan Reeves, Wade Phillips, and Shanahan.

Comparison and debate is a fantastic thing. Its the lifeblood of any discussion group.

But when people have labeled McDaniels' first draft class barely a full calendar year into their NFL careers? That isn't comparison or debate, that is a failure in objectivity.