Who is the best CB in the AFC West?

[easymobee]

Poll Forthcoming ....

All 4 teams will be represented.

[KillerBronco#76]

does this question even need to be asked?

[SoCalBronco]

Among those four
1. Bailey
2. Woodson
3. Surtain
4. Jammer

[SoCalBronco]

only a matter of time before Bob starts claiming that Surtain is the best thing since Star Wars (BTW, thats not saying much, Bob).

[easymobee]

does this question even need to be asked?

I know who i think it is .....

But many NFL observers would claim that 3 (minus Jammer of course) of the top 5 CB's in football reside in our division.

[Ballhawk]

This looks like Troll bait to me

[easymobee]

This looks like Troll bait to me

I have a duplicate of this thread over at the planet right now.

Last i looked :

Surtain - 5

Bailey - 4

Woodson - 1

[DBroncos4life]

Thats a tough question. I think at any given time one could be the best. All of them are corners (but Jammer) that you build a team around and all three of them can change a game in one play. Really its too tough to call.

[Crushaholic]

does this question even need to be asked?

No...but that doesn't stop people from asking it. This is kind of a refreshing break from all the "who are we going to pick" threads.

[easymobee]

Thats a tough question. I think at any given time one could be the best. All of them are corners (but Jammer) that you build a team around and all three of them can change a game in one play. Really its too tough to call.

Other than being a Denver fan ..... I give Champ the edge due to his age (Surtain is 29 and the 2nd best IMO ) and the fact that he has never missed a game.

[ZachKC]

Bailey, but not by that much. I voted the same in each poll.

[easymobee]

No...but that doesn't stop people from asking it. This is kind of a refreshing break from all the "who are we going to pick" threads.

I should have made it yesterday when Eric Warfield would have been one of the 4 options.

[Play2win]

This is literally the most worthless pole question ever!!!!!!!!!

Well, maybe this is to entertain the "Fan Site of the Month" Crew

[Ballhawk]

Speaking of Trolls or the lack there of, Any Bolt fans been around? Seems like they are showing caution with there new found respectability.

KC fans could learn a thing or two on how to act when you win the division. It does not mean **** unless you go to the big game (by big game I mean the SB queef fans, not your home game against us).

[Play2win]

Not only is Champ the very best CB in the group, but he is a physical FREAK. Just as much as MOSS. It is always good to have atleast one physical FREAK on your team!

[easymobee]

Not only is Champ the very best CB in the group, but he is a physical FREAK. Just as much as MOSS. It is always good to have atleast one physical FREAK on your team!

Extra Credit for offensive potential too.

To be honest, i haven't seen Surtain play too much .... so this will be a "wait and see" thing for me.

A few years ago everyone was raving about Sam Madison being one of the NFL's best CB's and then all of a sudden he was "adequate" while Surtain was the new badass over there.

[Al Wilson]

This is a hard one :kiddingme

[Sodak]

This is literally the most worthless pole question ever!!!!!!!!!

Well, maybe this is to entertain the "Fan Site of the Month" Crew

Almost pathetic enough for a Waffle poll...

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Not only is Champ the very best CB in the group, but he is a physical FREAK. Just as much as MOSS. It is always good to have atleast one physical FREAK on your team!

5-11 186 4.32 is a physical freak?

[Bob's your Information Minister]

To answer the poll:

After last year, Surtain.

Bailey got burned badly in several games last year. Surtain's never had a year like that.

Surtain has 25 interceptions since the 2000 season. That's 3rd best in the NFL. Bailey only has 16.

I guess we'll see how they do this year. I just hope we FINALLY have someone to stop Rod Smith from going off on KC EVERY FRIGGIN' GAME.

[ro_50]

I wonder in those Dolphin games, how many of those did Surtain cover the team's top reciever or was it Sam Madison covering those recievers. Come on Bob, you cant just compare the two based on how many INTs one has to the other.

[Rock Chalk]

Extra Credit for offensive potential too.

To be honest, i haven't seen Surtain play too much .... so this will be a "wait and see" thing for me.

A few years ago everyone was raving about Sam Madison being one of the NFL's best CB's and then all of a sudden he was "adequate" while Surtain was the new badass over there.
Surtain is good, but he has trouble making turns on the go. Good route runners can shake him off, but he has some good closing speed so timing has to be good. He benefitted from having a great defensive line and linebackers there in Miami and also having Sam Madison (who is slightly better than Surtain IMO) on the flank. Im pretty sure, though Im not a big Dolphin game watcher, that their safety was at least slightly above average. Their defense was never their problem.

However, given the sad state of affairs in Kansas City, barbecue notwithstanding, Surtain is going to have a similar year to Bailey's last year. A few mistakes that KC fans will surely blow way out of proportion (though, at the time, it will sound good), but mostly not thrown too because he will be the best corner on the field. Why bother when you can just pick apart the rest of the defense.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Alec, our front seven had more sacks than Miami's last year. Your argument is garbage. Surtain will do just great in KC.

[Rock Chalk]

Alec, our front seven had more sacks than Miami's last year. Your argument is garbage. Surtain will do just great in KC.
Bob, Miami was the second worst team in the league last year moron.

The best years of Surtain were when Miami's defense was top shelf dickwad.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Bob, Miami was the second worst team in the league last year moron.

The best years of Surtain were when Miami's defense was top shelf dickwad.

It was top shelf last year. No. 2 secondary.

They were the 2nd worst team in the league because of their offense, genius.

[easymobee]

To answer the poll:

After last year, Surtain.

Bailey got burned badly in several games last year. Surtain's never had a year like that.

Surtain has 25 interceptions since the 2000 season. That's 3rd best in the NFL. Bailey only has 16.

I guess we'll see how they do this year. I just hope we FINALLY have someone to stop Rod Smith from going off on KC EVERY FRIGGIN' GAME.

And how does Bob know that Surtain has never had a year "like that" (meaning .... never got beat more than once or twice on his island all year).

I doubt he's watched Surtain play even 10% as much as he watched Bailey play last year.

Unless he's got some "Friends" who are Phin fans that assure him Surtain is "unbeatable".

Bailey was 1st team All Pro last year ..... and Bob is downgrading him because of his "poor year".

BS

[Rock Chalk]

And how does Bob know that Surtain has never had a year "like that" (meaning .... never got beat more than once or twice on his island all year).

I doubt he's watched Surtain play even 10% as much as he watched Bailey play last year.

Unless he's got some "Friends" who are Phin fans that assure him Surtain is "unbeatable".

Bailey was 1st team All Pro last year ..... and Bob is downgrading him because of his "poor year".

BS

Bob also fails to mention that Bailey had three bad games and kicked ass the rest of the year.

Bob also fails to mention that Surtain had the benefit of a better defense for the better part of those years (2000-2004).

Bob also thinks KC is going to do well this year.

But who really gives a sh*t what Bob thinks?

[easymobee]

It was top shelf last year. No. 2 secondary.

They were the 2nd worst team in the league because of their offense, genius.


Teams that never win or score points (like last years Phins) don't get passed on very much by the opposition.

The other team is too busy trying to "run" the clock out ... not run the score up through the air.

[Rock Chalk]

Teams that never win or score points (like last years Phins) don't get passed on very much by the opposition.

The other team is too busy trying to "run" the clock out ... not run the score up through the air.

:pity:

Its hard for him to grasp.

[easymobee]

CP has it Surtain - 22

Bailey - 9

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Teams that never win or score points (like last years Phins) don't get passed on very much by the opposition.

The other team is too busy trying to "run" the clock out ... not run the score up through the air.

That's great but Miami also allowed just a 56.2 completion percentage rate, good for 7th in the league. Their yards per attempt allowed was only 5.9 as well, which is EXCELLENT.

[DBroncos4life]

That's great but Miami also allowed just a 56.2 completion percentage rate, good for 7th in the league. Their yards per attempt allowed was only 5.9 as well, which is EXCELLENT.



Great KC can plug in Miami players and poof they get Miami results. Denver plugs in Browns players and poof they get Browns results.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Great KC can plug in Miami players and poof they get Miami results. Denver plugs in Browns players and poof they get Browns results.

Players win football games... ???

[easymobee]

Between my last 45 minutes or so here and at Chiefs Planet .....

I have nothing to report other than BYU is truly a red and yellow glasses wearing dumbass.

Before i'm brainwashed into thinking that Surtain is the best CB in the league ...

Sammy Knight is an "elite" safety ....

etc ...etc ....etc ....

I'm just gonna quit reading his posts and just read his book.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Between my last 45 minutes or so here and at Chiefs Planet .....

I have nothing to report other than BYU is truly a red and yellow glasses wearing dumbass.

Before i'm brainwashed into thinking that Surtain is the best CB in the league ...

Sammy Knight is an "elite" safety ....

etc ...etc ....etc ....

I'm just gonna quit reading his posts and just read his book.

I didn't say he was the best CB in the league.

And Knight IS an elite safety.

[GCKansas]

Bob you can compare stats all you want but sometimes it is not about that. I think Surtain is a hell of a CB and am not just a homer for Bailey, but sometimes stats don't tell the whole story especially when it come to INTs. Bailey doesn't get that many ints because they don't throw his way a lot. He is more a Dieon Sanders type of player (except he can tackle of course), and teams throw away from him. Also he is almost always put with the opposing teams best wide receiver every game out. As far as he getting beat last year if you had seen any of Shanahan's press conferences it was not always what it looked like on the field. Sometimes a CB is expecting Safety help and is playing a certain part of the field. He notices that safety help is not there than he is running behind the guy trying to save the play.

[easymobee]

I didn't say he was the best CB in the league.

And Knight IS an elite safety.

Re: Surtain .... Praytell, who is the best CB in the league according to GoChiefs?

Re: Knight ..... ( Is he as "Elite" as Jerome Woods was going into last year? )
Hilarious! :laugh: :pigsfly:

[Raider Bill]

Bailey/Woodson are asked to play more press with no help than Surtain ever was. Surtain is more of a zone corner.

Surtain is far worse in run support.

I didn't vote, because I think an argument can be made either way for Bailey or Woodson depending on what side of the fence you sit.

[Play2win]

Bailey/Woodson are asked to play more press with no help than Surtain ever was. Surtain is more of a zone corner.

Surtain is far worse in run support.

I didn't vote, because I think an argument can be made either way for Bailey or Woodson depending on what side of the fence you sit.
Good take.

[ClevelandBronco]

Bailey, but not by that much.

Exactly, though I'm answering based on individual talent alone. The problem: It's a team sport. Bailey enjoys a marginal individual ability edge at a position that's directly affected by the corner's own d-line pressure and the increasing officiating harnesses that shackle good corners.

First let me see how Cleveland's d-line plays now that we given them some grownup helmets and I'll let you know which corner will be more effective for his team.

Give me the choice to sub Bailey and Surtain in and out on the same defense, I'll let Bailey play more downs than Surtain. It's Champ's position to lose. And that's the only reason Champ gets the nod. And maybe not a full nod.

Remember the nod Michael Corleone gives his right hand guy at Michael's mother's funeral? The nod that sends the order to kill Fredo? The one that's done (during an embrace) in front of a room full of people and no one sees it except the guy who's going to whack Fredo?

That's the nod.

[Cito Pelon]

Best tandem of CB's in the AFC West is Walls and Bailey.

Walls is the best CB in the AFC West.

Surtain, I don't remember him challenging the lead blockers on wide running plays. Walls and Bailey always do. We'll probably see less of that this year, since it's pretty important to keep Walls and Bailey healthy, and taking OG's/FB's/TE's out on sweeps - which has always been the CB's job - is maybe less important than having the CB's healthy. I sure do love the NFL. It's a chess game, but physical. Gotta love it.

[Play2win]

Best tandem of CB's in the AFC West is Walls and Bailey.

Walls is the best CB in the AFC West.

Surtain, I don't remember him challenging the lead blockers on wide running plays. Walls and Bailey always do. We'll probably see less of that this year, since it's pretty important to keep Walls and Bailey healthy, and taking OG's/FB's/TE's out on sweeps - which has always been the CB's job - is maybe less important than having the CB's healthy. I sure do love the NFL. It's a chess game, but physical. Gotta love it.
Absolutely. There is not a better game, anywhere, ever, than the NFL.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Bailey/Woodson are asked to play more press with no help than Surtain ever was. Surtain is more of a zone corner.

Surtain is far worse in run support.

You're wrong.

As a dolphins fan I just want to congratulate you guys on getting Surtain. This guys a player and is going to make some huge plays for your defense this year. Surtain vs Moss should be a blast especially after watching him help put Torry Holt to a career low 2 catches for something like 6 yards last year.

Few notes for you all though.

-If your DC has any brains at all put Surtain in the slot when possible. He dominates outside and in. So when one of those good WR's slides into the slot he's still covered so no mismatches.
-Run support. Surtains the man. You'll love it when you hear about a RB dragged down in the backfield and find it was Surtain who did it.

[ClevelandBronco]

Absolutely. There is not a better game, anywhere, ever, than the NFL.

Right. Except for hockey at any level.

Then you're wrong.

[Cito Pelon]

Right. Except for hockey at any level.

Then you're wrong.

Too much chaos in hockey, IMO. Now Stanley Cup hockey or World Cup hockey, there's more precision. I'm an engineer, so I like method and precision over chaos.

I will say the best celebration in all of sports is the circling of the rink with the Stanley Cup, especially at home. But the circling on the road is also a very special moment. Almost all the fans stay to see it, even on the road. I make sure I see that every year, no matter where I am.

[ClevelandBronco]

Too much chaos in hockey, IMO. Now Stanley Cup hockey or World Cup hockey, there's more precision. I'm an engineer, so I like method and precision over chaos.

I will say the best celebration in all of sports is the circling of the rink with the Stanley Cup, especially at home. But the circling on the road is also a very special moment. Almost all the fans stay to see it, even on the road. I make sure I see that every year, no matter where I am.

Chaos? True. But the chaotic nature of the surface, the speed, the equipment and the hockey temperament leads to dramatic moments of pure unexpected poetry. Those who say a football bounces funny haven't observed a puck enough.

In football I love a great run through the defense. The long bomb to a guy already in the open isn't as dramatic, though, because it's like an empty net goal. One of the great things about hockey is that the goalie always has that last one-on-one chance to deny a certain score even after the defenseman has been left in the dust.

I've always been kind of curious what the effect of a penalty box and power play would be like in the NFL...

[Raider Bill]

You're wrong.


The past few years he's been pretty much a zone defender on most plays. He's a good fit for the Chiefs cover-2 style of defense though, and a significant upgrade over Warfield in terms of coverage technique and range (though not as physical as him playing the strongside).

He's also very expensive for a guy who IMO doesn't have the pure speed (or jamming ability in press) to be matched in single coverage versus the faster receivers in the league --- but once again, he's a very good fit for Cunningham's defense and his aggressive style.

But come on man, solid run defender???

I'm still laughing my ass off at that one.

[Play2win]

Right. Except for hockey at any level.

Then you're wrong.
What a F*CKING JOKE.

NFL is Superior to "Toothpick Jousting" any day of the week.

Football, especially the NFL, is as good as it gets.

Have fun watching Disney's "Soccer on Ice"

That is, if the NHL is ever played in America again. If it wasn't, I wouldn't miss it, not even for a second.

[DarkHorse30]

Surtain is a good corner, and I think KC did the right thing in trying to get him....a 2nd round pick is nothing compared to getting a probowl corner. Even though Miami's horrible run defense probably helped the secondary's numbers, Surtain is still a good db.

The problem is, KC likely needs two new starting cornerbacks....not one, unless Mcleon is the answer on the right side. He only started 6 games in '04 on a pretty shaky pass defense. Warfield could help, but he may miss 4 games for substance abuse. Plus the chiefs are paying him more than Denver's paying Bailey next year......kudos to Carl on that one.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

njbil:

Surtain is good against the run. I'll trust a Fins fan opinion before yours.

DarkHorse30:

Last report was that Warfield would avoid a suspension.

[ClevelandBronco]

What a F*CKING JOKE.

NFL is Superior to "Toothpick Jousting" any day of the week.

Football, especially the NFL, is as good as it gets.

Have fun watching Disney's "Soccer on Ice"

That is, if the NHL is ever played in America again. If it wasn't, I wouldn't miss it, not even for a second.

No surprise. I'd expect that reaction from most women.

[Miles]

As a KC fan id still say that Bailey is the top corner providing he makes the right adjustments from last season. Though its not the landslide this poll makes it seem to be.

[Cito Pelon]

Chaos? True. But the chaotic nature of the surface, the speed, the equipment and the hockey temperament leads to dramatic moments of pure unexpected poetry. Those who say a football bounces funny haven't observed a puck enough.

In football I love a great run through the defense. The long bomb to a guy already in the open isn't as dramatic, though, because it's like an empty net goal. One of the great things about hockey is that the goalie always has that last one-on-one chance to deny a certain score even after the defenseman has been left in the dust.

I've always been kind of curious what the effect of a penalty box and power play would be like in the NFL...

Sure, there's unexpected poetry in hockey, but it drives me nuts waiting for it. Hockey these days is a whole lot better than what I grew up with. Before the Europeans started playing in the NHL, the talent pool was pretty low. There was Canadians, and ?????

As fast as the rules change in the NFL, maybe there will be a penalty box come about.

[Cito Pelon]

I don't particularly like having Surtain at KC. Could be a problem. Well, it's done now, just have to deal with it. The guys at the peak of his game right now. Lucky for the AFCW the KC O is on the backsides of their careers.

[Sarcastro]

I would have to say Bailey is better even with his bad games last year. I don't know if Bailey is actually that much better of a cover corner then Surtain, but he is younger and has never missed a game.

[Kaylore]

I would have to say Bailey is better even with his bad games last year. I don't know if Bailey is actually that much better of a cover corner then Surtain, but he is younger and has never missed a game.
He's a more complete corner as well. Bailey is a much much better tackler. If you compare their stats, Bailey has 30% more tackles with way fewer of them being assisted ones compared to Surtain.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

“Oh, he's a physical cornerback,” Bernie Parmalee told me Friday morning. “He's not one of those corners who shies away from contact.”

Parmalee, my old Ball State teammate, played with Surtain in Miami and then spent the last three seasons on the Dolphins' coaching staff. Parmalee has a unique perspective on Surtain. He's worked alongside Surtain, and Parmalee has sat in coaches' meetings and helped evaluate Surtain.

“He's rock solid,” said Parmalee, now a member of Charlie Weis' Notre Dame coaching staff. He's kind of a quiet guy that goes to work and goes home to his family. On the field, he can play man, he can play zone and, like I said, he'll come up and hit in run support.”

Is he as good as Ty Law?

“I think he's better,” Parmalee said.

[Clockwork Orange]

Better than Ty Law? ::)

Anyway.....who the hell voted for Quentin Jammer?

[Northman]

Surtain

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Better than Ty Law? ::)


I'll take an NFL player/coaches opinion over any fan's.

[azbroncfan]

Better than Ty Law? ::)

Anyway.....who the hell voted for Quentin Jammer?
I voted for him because Boob made this stupid poll. Regardless who you think the best in AFC west is Jammer isn't even close to being mention with these corners. Infact the only thing he has on the 3 is being drafted higher I believe. ???

[BlaK-Argentina]

My brother is a Dolphins fan, and I spent part of the last two NFL seasons in Miami, so... of course, I watched quite a few Dolphins games (I even went to the Rams game last year... :( ) and I can honestly say that Surtain is a great CB. He is definitely a ballhawk and count one or two INT's from Jake thrown to him this year.

I voted Bailey, but he doesn't win by much. Champ is by FAR a better tackler = better in run support. I saw him make several tackles last year that made me think it was Kenoy and not him making the play. Yeah, he had his bad games, but the rest of the year he was brilliant and Surtain had his bad games too. (like every Cornerback)

I think they are pretty even as far as coverage goes, but Champ is more aggresive and a better tackler, so he gets the nod.
I think Surtain has better hands... I don't remember him dropping the ball, ever. (of course, Champ can play offense, so he must have great hands too)

I haven't seen Woodson play a lot so I don't have an informed opinion of him, but I hear he is pretty good.

Jammer... ???

[Bob's your Information Minister]

I voted for him because Boob made this stupid poll. Regardless who you think the best in AFC west is Jammer isn't even close to being mention with these corners. Infact the only thing he has on the 3 is being drafted higher I believe. ???

I didn't make the poll.

[azbroncfan]

I didn't make the poll.
Oops my bad. This is a type of poll you'd make though just so when all the bronco fans say Bailey you can bring up the times he has got burned here and there.

[Chi3fsRock]

Alot of people picked Champ.Thats odd.I'm gussing you guys don't remember when he got his ass handed to him by Chad Johnson AND Jerry Porter.

[Chi3fsRock]

Now,I'm not saying that Champ isn't a good CB.Beause he is,but it was retarded to make this poll because your asking it in a Bronco fourm.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Alot of people picked Champ.Thats odd.I'm gussing you guys don't remember when he got his ass handed to him by Chad Johnson AND Jerry Porter.

Don't forget Eddie Kennison.

[Darkhawk24]

I'm glad Chief fans have showed up to teach us about football. You want to see people stroke Surtain then find a Chief forum.

The guy has been surrounded by superstars on the Dolphins defense. Let's see how "good" Surtain is joining "Career Day Defense".

He will improve that pathetic Secondary but let's not get carried away. Better then Champ Bailey? Riiiight!

[Northman]

Don't forget Eddie Kennison.


who?

[crazyhorse]

I cant understand why Bailey is winning in this poll. Whoda thunkit?

He may be the best anyway. Look at how many players it has cost, and continues to cost the Broncos just to have him. Champ Bailey is the #1 cap hog that there is in football at the CB position. That has to count for something.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

who?

The guy who led all AFC West wide receivers in touchdowns last year.

[Northman]

The guy who led all AFC West wide receivers in touchdowns last year.


still dont know of him. must be a scrub and benefits from a Qb with a good line. i think i know who your talking about now. meh, he is average and not even in the top 25 wideouts in the league.

[DBroncos4life]

I cant understand why Bailey is winning in this poll. Whoda thunkit?

He may be the best anyway. Look at how many players it has cost, and continues to cost the Broncos just to have him. Champ Bailey is the #1 cap hog that there is in football at the CB position. That has to count for something.




You mean Woodson? His 10 million dollar cap number is much higher then Baileys this year. Im willing to bet that Surtains contract takes up some space on KC's cap as well. Atleast Bailey won't be 36 by the time his ends either.

[DBroncos4life]

The guy who led all AFC West wide receivers in touchdowns last year.



Yes he KILLED the rest of the west in tds.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Yes he KILLED the rest of the west in tds.

You're such a dumbass.

[bloodsunday]

Bailey got burned badly in several games last year. Surtain's never had a year like that.
When was the last time Jason Taylor was rushing the passer for Bailey?

Surtain has 25 interceptions since the 2000 season. That's 3rd best in the NFL. Bailey only has 16..
That's a stupid measuring stick for a shutdown corner. By definition a shutdown corner shouldn't get the ball thrown his way. Besides, INTs are a function of d-line causing the QB to make poor decisions. Get real.

I guess we'll see how they do this year. I just hope we FINALLY have someone to stop Rod Smith from going off on KC EVERY FRIGGIN' GAME.
Look its cool that KC made a big move and you're happy about, I would be if I were a KC fan, but let's not get carried away.

I will answer your question with another question:
Poll the 32 GMs in the NFL, these 4 DBs are on the board in a draft, who do you take? I guarantee that Bailey is #1 by a wide margin.

[DarkHorse]

They're all pretty damn good on any given day. I'd take any of them but my list would be this:

Bailey
Woodson
Surtain
Jammer

Although - Surtain may be better than Woodson - it's a tossup there for me.

[WaffleBoy]

No doubt, Surtain. Surtain has been more consistent than the rest. I can't remember Surtain ever having a bad season like Woodson and Bailey.

The Boy Wonder :super:

[Blueflame]

No doubt, Surtain. Surtain has been more consistent than the rest. I can't remember Surtain ever having a bad season like Woodson and Bailey.

The Boy Wonder :super:

Surtain has enjoyed a good supporting cast in Miami. Now he's going to the highly-suspect KC _efense. It won't exactly be surprising if his numbers decline somewhat as a result.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Surtain has enjoyed a good supporting cast in Miami. Now he's going to the highly-suspect KC _efense. It won't exactly be surprising if his numbers decline somewhat as a result.

I love women who know nothing about football....

[Clockwork Orange]

I love women who know nothing about football....

You should, to them you might look really bright.

[Blueflame]

I love women who know nothing about football....

Says the Chef fan whose own football knowledge would fit on a pinhead... with lots of room to spare. :P

[Sarcastro]

Raiders just drafted Stanford Routt. Thread over.

[Clockwork Orange]

Raiders just drafted Stanford Routt. Thread over.

After trading up inexplicably for Fabian Washington. ???

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Says the Chef fan whose own football knowledge would fit on a pinhead... with lots of room to spare. :P

You didn't even realize that the Chiefs front 7 had more sacks than Miami's last year...you're a fool.

[Blueflame]

You didn't even realize that the Chiefs front 7 had more sacks than Miami's last year...you're a fool.

Did Surtain's defensive stats just start last year? ::)

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Did Surtain's defensive stats just start last year? ::)

No, but he was just as good last year as he's ever been.

[Blueflame]

No, but he was just as good last year as he's ever been.

So you're saying that because the Chefs' front 7 had more sacks than Miami's in one season of Surtain's career, Miami's defensive talent during that entire time was not superior to the Chefs' defensive personnel? Sure. ::)

[Bob's your Information Minister]

So you're saying that because the Chefs' front 7 had more sacks than Miami's in one season of Surtain's career, Miami's defensive talent during that entire time was not superior to the Chefs' defensive personnel? Sure. ::)

Your argument is bull****. Surtain's play is not going to fall off in Kansas City unless he gets hurt. You should stick to knitting.

[Raider Bill]

Surtain is not a good press corner, he's a yellow flag waiting to happen.

He's also a drag down tackler shying away from contact.

Miami hasnt used him much in press for a couple of years now.

He's not going to hang 1 catch for 6 yards on Moss like Woodson did.

[Blueflame]

Your argument is bull****. Surtain's play is not going to fall off in Kansas City unless he gets hurt. You should stick to knitting.

And your argument is unvarnished homerism with a touch of speculation thrown in for good measure. You should stick to discussions about Star Wars.

[Sarcastro]

It is pretty obvious that in the end it will come down to either Stanford Routt or Karl Paymah. We need a new poll now that these two elite corners have been added to the AFC-West.

[easymobee]

I love women who know nothing about football....
Your argument is bull****. Surtain's play is not going to fall off in Kansas City unless he gets hurt. You should stick to knitting.

I can see why you are still carrying around one of these with smooth talk like this .....

[easymobee]

I voted for him because Boob made this stupid poll. Regardless who you think the best in AFC west is Jammer isn't even close to being mention with these corners. Infact the only thing he has on the 3 is being drafted higher I believe. ???

I made this thread just to see how it would turn out.

I made the same thread at Chiefs Planet to gauge how close Surtain and Bailey finished in 2nd in the rival forums.