The Redskins fans react...

[Taco John]

Here's a thread of Redskins fans reactions to the trade:

http://extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=99321

[Sodak]

They seem to be much more excited (or bewildered) about the deal.

Here's to the Skins losing in 2005! Now I have something to hope for in the NFC!

[TheDave]

The first 10 or so pages is just a circle jerk... about page 15 and on reality starts to settle in.... he he he!

[watermock]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v481/bubba9497/e3944a10.jpg

They have assumed "The Position".

[Tombstone RJ]

Here's a thread of Redskins fans reactions to the trade:

http://extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=99321

They seem happy.

[IbleedORANGEandBLUE]

they're retarded





enough said

[Tombstone RJ]

The first 10 or so pages is just a circle jerk... about page 15 and on reality starts to settle in.... he he he!

I can't believe all the homers at that site. They are acting like the #25 pick is a going to make the whole draft for them. No one is even considering that the Broncos are taking their first and fourth in 2006, which is a much deeper draft.

[i4jelway7]

Here's a better board, read these reactions

http://hailredskins.com/vbforum/showthread.php?t=24945

[SouthStndJunkie]

From Skins Fans:

If this is true : We are the most poorly managed football team in the history of the NFL. Why do we consistently trade away picks? ALSO, the talent in this draft is arguably sub-standard, everyone is trying to trade DOWN! What do we do? trade away future picks for drafts that are probably going to be better overall for picks in the weaker draft this year.

If this is true : This is proof positive that Joe Gibbs has no f-ing idea what he's doing running this team, and that this organization is up the creek without a paddle until we get a GM to organize the direction and make difficult decisions for this team. I hate this decision.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

They discount the future picks a round, but you don't do that for future 1sts. You do it for every other round.

[Taco John]

I didn't seem to make too many friends in this thread...

http://extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=99325

[dbroncos31]

wow...redskins fans are kinda dumb. they are there on extreme skins saying that bailey sucked and that they raped us on the CP-CB trade and that they raped us on this trade. i kno TJ was there and finally gave up on theose idiot fans. the one thing i look at in the bailey-portis trade is: 10-6 vs. 6-10. end of story. yeah bailey got beat a few times but he shut down muhammed. i was there and i don't remember hearing his name once. he also shut down Tony G. and he helped shut down gates and mccardell. Bailey didn't perform perfectly, but i thought that he was good. Also, in this trade, this draft is crap, and there is much more in the middle rounds, cwhere we now have 4 picks. and next year we'll get the skins' 1st, which i expect to be now farther down than 20. meaning a top 10 pick is a distinct possibility. yeah portis did well but i remember everyone saying...wow he's gonna get 2000 yards this year and the skins could go to the SB. i remember him fumbling a lot and not really doing anything for them. his ypc dropped significantly.

[minibronco]

haha... their reaction is classic!

[dbroncos31]

i thought that taco brought up some great points and the skins fans just went...you suck and stuff of that nature. and how come alsmost everyone on extreme skins is like 18? Taco, i thought you handled yourself well and kicked their asses. they wouldn't admit that they gave up a monster amount for 1 decent pick. also, i was reading on the site and some joker said that the skins might trade their #9 for the #1 or #2, straight up. i almost shat myself. no team in their right mind would drop 7 spots with nothing else. that guy was so stupid, like many of the other posters there.

[Mr. Trout]

Yeah, I was checking out that board. It is about a 50/50 split between redskin fans who like the move and who hate it. The ones who hate the trade are probably smarter and older than the young dudes who think it was a good move.

[yavoon]

yah I thot a year removed only moves back the value 1 round and yet the redskins gave up seemingly a lot.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Damn and I thought Ravens fans were morons. Probably would have learned that first hand if there were actually some Skins fans living in DC when I went to school there.

[Pezman]

Stirring the pot again? ROFL! I'd be a bit miffed too if I was Redskin fan. But in all honesty, The Dan at least tries to make moves. Even if they implode, the dude has some big marbles to be able to take as many personnel moves like he has over the years.
That being said... its how it translates into wins is the big problem...

[elsid13]

The best part of living in the DC area is that the Skins win the superbowl ever June. The fact that Skins were going hard after Brown makes this even funnier when they talk about the us getting the Browns DL.

[Taco John]

I was shocked at all the Bailey hate over there. You'd have thought Bailey was the only player to ever want out of D.C. or something... They HATE this guy... I get that Bailey was burnt a few times this season, but these guys have it in their heads that Bailey was the hugest bust of the year last season, and... and I'm still in shock about this... that SPRINGS is actually *BETTER* than Bailey. That one just floored me, because I've followed Springs for years, and he's never lived up to his potential. He had a good season last year playing in the NFC... But come on... Springs couldn't hold Champs jock if Champ held up one end of it for him...

I guess Champ's selection to the ProBowl (despite a couple of very high profile misses) must have been dumb luck or something... ???

[dbroncos31]

I was shocked at all the Bailey hate over there. You'd have thought Bailey was the only player to ever want out of D.C. or something... They HATE this guy... I get that Bailey was burnt a few times this season, but these guys have it in their heads that Bailey was the hugest bust of the year last season, and... and I'm still in shock about this... that SPRINGS is actually *BETTER* than Bailey. That one just floored me, because I've followed Springs for years, and he's never lived up to his potential. He had a good season last year playing in the NFC... But come on... Springs couldn't hold Champs jock if Champ held up one end of it for him...

I guess Champ's selection to the ProBowl (despite a couple of very high profile misses) must have been dumb luck or something... ???
yeah, and when exactly was bailey burned? maybe twice in the cincy game and tewice against oak. 4 times this season? thats not bad. and he shut down muhammed and gonzalez and gates and mccardell. obviously he is horrible. ???
"shawn springs is the bestest playerts aound lool rolf...hahaha broncos suck..i';m a redskin fan" what morons.

[elsid13]

TJ
The sports radio here killed Champ after he left. It was amazing, one moment he was the best player in the league, next he should be playing in CFL. The Skins fans took it like personnel betrayal, like you caught you're wife in bed with your best friend. Portis struggle here last year, and the Steeler’s game he was basically pulled

[Joe_Gibbs]

First off, there are some good posters here and I enjoy this board but for some of you to call us Redskin fans homers and losers is quite comical. Kettle meet black, black meet kettle.



As for this trade, right now I dont like it but I will save my judgement till after the draft and how this all works out. Did the Redskins get raped/Denever get raped in this deal, well according to us Arm Chair QB's of course the other team did. Heck we know because we are super fans who should be running the front office.



The only sane conclusion I can come up with is that we will ship the #25 pick to Buffalo for Nate Clements. There have been rumors about this for over a week and now that Buchanon is gone to Texas we will just have to see.


Its funny because I see the Redskins and Bronco's the same. I like the Bronco's and think its funny that we both have owners that are willing to spend But I will wear my title of homer and loser that you have given to me because our owner and front office got raped.. :dummy:

[TexanBob]

It should be obvious that the Redskins do not think further ahead than nine months. That's how they wind up signing those ridiculous contracts and throwing away picks for folks like Brunell. It's all about this calendar year for them and any price they pay in future years simply doesn't factor into their decisions.

That would make sense if they were one or two guys away from winning the Super Bowl but they're not even one or two guys away from winning their division.

[Rascal]

The Bang cartoon should be interesting...LOL!!!

[-Slap-]

First off, there are some good posters here and I enjoy this board but for some of you to call us Redskin fans homers and losers is quite comical. Kettle meet black, black meet kettle.



As for this trade, right now I dont like it but I will save my judgement till after the draft and how this all works out. Did the Redskins get raped/Denever get raped in this deal, well according to us Arm Chair QB's of course the other team did. Heck we know because we are super fans who should be running the front office.



The only sane conclusion I can come up with is that we will ship the #25 pick to Buffalo for Nate Clements. There have been rumors about this for over a week and now that Buchanon is gone to Texas we will just have to see.


Its funny because I see the Redskins and Bronco's the same. I like the Bronco's and think its funny that we both have owners that are willing to spend But I will wear my title of homer and loser that you have given to me because our owner and front office got raped.. :dummy:

I'm actually going to have a hard time rooting against Washington next season because I have tons of respect for Gibbs. I think the people getting excited about the prospects of a top ten pick next April are in for a letdown. I think Joe will do better this year, provided he's purged enough of the guys who aren't willing to buy into his system. Except Portis, of course, as they're stuck with each other, unless Joe quits or Clinton gets hurt.

http://images.nfl.com/photos/img7145202.jpg

[Rascal]

I know who my second favorite team is. Whoever is playing the Skins...damn that means I'm going to to have to cheer for the faid, squaws, and bolts.

[watermock]

yeah, and when exactly was bailey burned? maybe twice in the cincy game and tewice against oak. 4 times this season? thats not bad. and he shut down muhammed and gonzalez and gates and mccardell. obviously he is horrible. ???
"shawn springs is the bestest playerts aound lool rolf...hahaha broncos suck..i';m a redskin fan" what morons.

How Amusing.

[watermock]

"shawn springs is the bestest playerts aound lool rolf...hahaha broncos suck..i';m a redskin fan" what morons.

Who can argue with that?

[Taco John]

It should be obvious that the Redskins do not think further ahead than nine months. That's how they wind up signing those ridiculous contracts and throwing away picks for folks like Brunell. It's all about this calendar year for them and any price they pay in future years simply doesn't factor into their decisions.

That would make sense if they were one or two guys away from winning the Super Bowl but they're not even one or two guys away from winning their division.



You can't say it any better than that... I think this is dead on.

[Taco John]

I'm actually going to have a hard time rooting against Washington next season because I have tons of respect for Gibbs. I think the people getting excited about the prospects of a top ten pick next April are in for a letdown. I think Joe will do better this year, provided he's purged enough of the guys who aren't willing to buy into his system. Except Portis, of course, as they're stuck with each other, unless Joe quits or Clinton gets hurt.

http://images.nfl.com/photos/img7145202.jpg



I love Joe Gibbs, but I'm going to have no trouble rooting that his welcome back party is delayed for a year. ;D

[SouthStndJunkie]

I hope they go 2-14.

Gibbs is a class act...but every Redskin win takes food off our table now.

SSJ

[doof]

The only sane conclusion I can come up with is that we will ship the #25 pick to Buffalo for Nate Clements. There have been rumors about this for over a week and now that Buchanon is gone to Texas we will just have to see.

That would mean the Skins gave up a 1st, a 3rd, and a 4th for Clements (who is in the last year of his contract), which I consider way too steep.

[Kaylore]

Their fans are like zombies! It's almost welcome compared to the overly negative nature this bored gets sometimes.

Their Champ bashing is especially odd considering he was voted the best corner in the league by his peers/opponents and went to the pro-bowl. You just pretend someone sucks because they leave your team? I don't wish ill on Broncos who leave the team in trades (Portis, Droughns, etc.).

I love the 18 year old who rather than debate with you, tries to argue Taco is "debating wrong". I'd love to see that kid in a street fight when someone kicks him in the nuts, "HEY!!! You're fighting technique isn't...AHHHHH!!"

[Rock Chalk]

First off, there are some good posters here and I enjoy this board but for some of you to call us Redskin fans homers and losers is quite comical. Kettle meet black, black meet kettle.

Its one thing to have a small minority of fans in your base as moronic losers. Hell, 99% of Oaklands fan base is like that. Its entirely different when your fanbase, and the big majority of them, doesnt seem the ramifications being NEGATIVE overall for the Skins in this deal. No matter where the Skins finish this year, they have two less draft picks in the next year's draft and that is going to hurt them a lot, especially if they do well but maybe even more if they do badly and miss out on the possibility of a great top 10 pick.

As for this trade, right now I dont like it but I will save my judgement till after the draft and how this all works out. Did the Redskins get raped/Denever get raped in this deal, well according to us Arm Chair QB's of course the other team did. Heck we know because we are super fans who should be running the front office.

You are the exception to the rule. Very few of your fellow posers on ExtremeSkins had the foresight to see the doom that had just befallen them. Did Washington or Denver get raped? Clearly we have raped Washington twice now. We jacked two picks ini a deep draft next year and traded down for this year's weak draft crop. Portis is/was a failure in Washington, because he is a fragile little boy who got overpaid. Bailey may be far from perfect, but he is a capable corner and in today's pass happy league thats about all you can ask for. Sucks to be a skins fan, trust me, I know a few and it sucks to be them.

The only sane conclusion I can come up with is that we will ship the #25 pick to Buffalo for Nate Clements. There have been rumors about this for over a week and now that Buchanon is gone to Texas we will just have to see.

No way it will ever happen. No one is going to take the 25th pick because no one will be left worthy of #25 money.

Its funny because I see the Redskins and Bronco's the same. I like the Bronco's and think its funny that we both have owners that are willing to spend But I will wear my title of homer and loser that you have given to me because our owner and front office got raped.. :dummy:
Its funny, I see them as nothing alike.

I wouldnt necessarily call you a loser, but homer maybe. Not so bad, being homer is normal I think. Your front office did get raped but never accept a title "given" to you unless you feel you have earned it proper.

[-Slap-]

I love Joe Gibbs, but I'm going to have no trouble rooting that his welcome back party is delayed for a year. ;D

I won't allow sentimentality to get in the way of what's best for the lads. I do think that Washington will do better than most people expect next year, though.

[KJ25]

I can't believe all the homers at that site. They are acting like the #25 pick is a going to make the whole draft for them. No one is even considering that the Broncos are taking their first and fourth in 2006, which is a much deeper draft.


Ahhh yes my friend it's a deeper draft but not at CB and WR which are positions the Redskins are looking at. In fact, next year's WR class could be the weakest to have come out in years. Also consider this, the Skins could have a trade very close for Gardner which will land them a 3rd or a 4th round pick (if someone gave up a 2nd round pick for AJ Feeley someone can give a 3rd for Gardner) Also, the Skins have a chance to trade down if someone (like your buddies the Chiefs who I love cause they alwayz make my Skins look good on draft day) and still land Carlos Rogers or Adam Jones while getting back a 2nd or 3rd round choice, then they come out looking pretty smart. Look a little further into it before you condem it. I think the Broncos got themselves a very good trade also because they are a team really on the brink and if the Skins are good next year could package both first round picks for a dominant defensive lineman.

[DivineLegion]

We made the trade to get into position to pick up Plummers replacement

[DivineLegion]

20 dollars on Matt Lienart

[Atlas]

Who can argue with that?

HAHAHA.... rep

[KJ25]

First off why is everyone judging all Skins fans by some loosers on ExtremeSkins which has good posters but isn't too picky. I barely post here but never rideculed anyone or viewed everything through the old B&G glasses. Nobody raped anyone yet and this isn't really a competition. The Broncos had their priorities and the Skins had theirs so stop trying to make your team look superior cause it was a matter of conveniance for both teams. Secondly, Gibbs did not trade Champ Bailey because he's dumb or cause the Broncos front office took advantege of him, this is not a used car lot. Gibbs made that trade cause he believes in team chemistry to a fault. Speaking of that, are you guys gonna tell me there was never a touch of homer optimism when 4 d-lineman from one of the league's worst rushing defenses were aquired?

[Ballhawk]

Speaking of that, are you guys gonna tell me there was never a touch of homer optimism when 4 d-lineman from one of the league's worst rushing defenses were aquired?

All boils down to price tag with this move. Most here agree that if one of four produce at an equal level as Hayward did last year. It was a decent move.

I would say that I think each and every one of them will perform better than they did in Clevland. Coyer seems to get a good effort out of guys.

[Pat Bowlen]

It should be obvious that the Redskins do not think further ahead than nine months. That's how they wind up signing those ridiculous contracts and throwing away picks for folks like Brunell. It's all about this calendar year for them and any price they pay in future years simply doesn't factor into their decisions.
Case in point:
A first next year is pretty much like a 2nd this year. It doesnt have much stock to it. A 4th is like a 5th. so, basically, we traded a 2nd, 3rd, and 5th for a 1st.

[Taco John]

Boy, I read that spin and thought it was pretty crazy myself... Eventually that pick matures into actual value. I get the conversion that takes place in that thought process, but that conversion is a two way street.

Saying a first this year is like a second next year is nonsense. That conversion doesn't count for first rounders, and even more than that, anybody who's cracked a draft sheet knows that this draft is being talked down as light this year in talent, with high expectations for next year's crop.

[Bronco Yoda]

It should be obvious that the Redskins do not think further ahead than nine months. That's how they wind up signing those ridiculous contracts and throwing away picks for folks like Brunell. It's all about this calendar year for them and any price they pay in future years simply doesn't factor into their decisions.

That would make sense if they were one or two guys away from winning the Super Bowl but they're not even one or two guys away from winning their division.

That is so true Bob. Every year... when's the last time they've even made it over the .500 hump? A perinial sub-500 team reaching out in desperation.

Yet they act like they're only a player away.

A player away from what? That magical unattainable redskin goal of 9-7 +?

[fontaine]

I think it's a win win situation for both teams.

The skins biggest weakeness is at WR/CB. This draft is pretty good and deep on both positions so Gibbs pretty much decided to go with it and fill those two needs. Their season is going to depend on Ramsay though because they lost two pretty good players in Smoot, and Pierce.

[Drek]

I think Joe will do better this year, provided he's purged enough of the guys who aren't willing to buy into his system. Except Portis, of course, as they're stuck with each other, unless Joe quits or Clinton gets hurt. I don't think he has purged enough though. Arrington, by far the best player on their team, has been openly complaining about the 'skins FO, that alone is bad news.

Look at the team compared to last year. The WRs are worse, thanks to swapping Coles for Moss. RB is still the same, where Portis was good but not the CP we all watched here. Getting as many carries as Gibbs piles on him he's also a candidate for significant injuries. Their defense, the bright spot from last year, lost their best corner in Smoot, and has the best player on the team openly disenting. Its going to take a miracle on Gibbs' part to get these guys to gel into a cohesive unit and play the game at a high level in '05.

[Bronco Yoda]

well, the Redskins can win-win with us every year as far as I'm concerned. Seems Bowlen has found a reliable pimp on the east coast whenever we need more skin.

[Bronco Yoda]

...just as long as we pass on them fat and hairy hoggettes.

[bloodsunday]

The skins biggest weakeness is at WR/CB..
Reports are that Washington covets Campbell at 25. If that's the case I draw a few conclusions:
1) They are paying (severely) for not having a second round pick because he is project to be a 2nd rounder. I'm not sure where they lost their #2, but I'm sure it was some hair-brained deal.
2) Their season could go south as they will probably get him on the field ASAP
3) They made this move to soon. Green Bay could jump them at #24 or someone else could trade ahead of #25. They should have let this deal wait until closer to Denver's pick.

[bloodsunday]

What I found funny was a bunch of comments like:
1) Well if Ramsey completes a few more balls we are 8 - 8
2) If our offense averages 21 pts a game we are 13 -2 -1

When I see things like this, I am glad the Mane is a no BS site. Seriously.

[bloodsunday]

Look at the team compared to last year. The WRs are worse, thanks to swapping Coles for Moss. RB is still the same, where Portis was good but not the CP we all watched here. Getting as many carries as Gibbs piles on him he's also a candidate for significant injuries. Their defense, the bright spot from last year, lost their best corner in Smoot, and has the best player on the team openly disenting. Its going to take a miracle on Gibbs' part to get these guys to gel into a cohesive unit and play the game at a high level in '05.
And they could be starting a rookie QB at some point.

[Mile High Shack]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redskin006
A first next year is pretty much like a 2nd this year. It doesnt have much stock to it. A 4th is like a 5th. so, basically, we traded a 2nd, 3rd, and 5th for a 1st.


someone actually said this???

[Ray Finkle]

The best part of living in the DC area is that the Skins win the superbowl ever June. The fact that Skins were going hard after Brown makes this even funnier when they talk about the us getting the Browns DL.


True....Rep!

[bloodsunday]

For Redskins fans:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A2217-2005Apr19.html

"That's a pretty steep price to pay for [pick] number 25," one NFL executive said. "They must be up to something else."

[Clockwork Orange]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redskin006
A first next year is pretty much like a 2nd this year. It doesnt have much stock to it. A 4th is like a 5th. so, basically, we traded a 2nd, 3rd, and 5th for a 1st.


someone actually said this???

LOL

Now that is some funny **** right there. That's homerism that almost reaches Toronto Maple Leaf fan status. Almost.

[-Slap-]

I don't think he has purged enough though. Arrington, by far the best player on their team, has been openly complaining about the 'skins FO, that alone is bad news.

Look at the team compared to last year. The WRs are worse, thanks to swapping Coles for Moss. RB is still the same, where Portis was good but not the CP we all watched here. Getting as many carries as Gibbs piles on him he's also a candidate for significant injuries. Their defense, the bright spot from last year, lost their best corner in Smoot, and has the best player on the team openly disenting. Its going to take a miracle on Gibbs' part to get these guys to gel into a cohesive unit and play the game at a high level in '05.

I don't see getting Coles' whiney ass out of his lockerroom as a negative for Gibbs. That's a case of addition by subtraction there. They replaced him with Santana Moss, not Chris Cole, so any talent dropoff is fairly negligible.

The return of Jon Jansen should be big for the Redskins. Losing him just before the season started last year really crippled their offense.

We'll see how the Arrington situation plays out. I don't think I know enough about the particulars to really comment. I'll say this, little Danny might be a prick, but he's been generous to a fault, so I'm surprised to hear LeVar is getting shortchanged. He is a great player, no doubt, but in his mind, he's LT and Butkus rolled into one awesome package and that's not even close to being right.

[Dr. Broncenstein]

Arrington is Sam Cassell ugly as well.....

[Mile High Shack]

LOL

Now that is some funny **** right there. That's homerism that almost reaches Toronto Maple Leaf fan status. Almost.
That reminded me of the seinfeld episode where they got stuck in Florida (Elanie and Jerry) with his parents and Jerry kept saying…well if you think about with sleeping, then eating, then showering, it’s just like a day, not 2 days….etc etc

[Ray Finkle]

Arrington is Sam Cassell ugly as well.....


I think he is more Scottie Pippen ugly but not George Murisan ugly....

[bendog]

I like Joe Gibbs (the poster) input, but how you put a smily face of giving up a 3, 1 and 4, to get the 25th pick in a draft that EVERYONE says is weak esp in the latter first round is beyond me.

What does shanny have against Washington, LOL? Maybe he's getting even for having Rhodes as DC for a couple of years.

[bloodsunday]

Again, they appear to be after Campbell from Auburn. IMO, he could be a steal in this draft. I hope its true so that they play him and suffer "growing pains" next season.

[bronco militia]

What does shanny have against Washington, LOL? Maybe he's getting even for having Rhodes as DC for a couple of years.

that and SuperBowl XXII....that 2nd quarter still brings back horrible memories.

[bendog]

yeah, but was shanny hear then?

(I cringe whenever the highlites of taht superbowl are on)

[bronco militia]

yeah, but was shanny hear then?

(I cringe whenever the highlites of taht superbowl are on)

yep...he was the OC

[NaptownChief]

I like Joe Gibbs (the poster) input, but how you put a smily face of giving up a 3, 1 and 4, to get the 25th pick in a draft that EVERYONE says is weak esp in the latter first round is beyond me.





I don't think it is a horrible trade for Washington....This is a fairly deep draft it just doesn't have the top 5 type of players that really separate themselves from the next 25...So drafting 25th is pretty nice cause there will be quality talent much like drafting in the top 10 without having to pay crazy money...The net of this trade is giving up a 3rd rounder to accelerate next years 1st rounder. A deferred 4th rounder is about like a current year 5th which isn't much and and next years 1st is about the equivalent to a late 1st or even a 2nd rounder if their pick next year ends up towards the backside of the 1st round....If that happens you guys basically give up your 1st for a 3rd this year, a 2nd and a 5th since those last two picks are deferred a year.

I don't think it is a bad deal either way...Pretty even deal, I certainly don't get where many Donk fans feel like they made out like a bandit on this. Only way that will be the case is if Washington throws up a 3-13 type season.

[bendog]

it's ok deep in rds 3 and 4. But the guys at 25 aren't sure fire picks. I'm hoping gibbs moves onto KC after father dick hangs it up this year.

[NaptownChief]

it's ok deep in rds 3 and 4. But the guys at 25 aren't sure fire picks. I'm hoping gibbs moves onto KC after father dick hangs it up this year.



The only thing really unique about this draft is there isn't any sure fire type picks in it...Probably Braylon Edwards and Mike Williams are the only two that might fall into that category. Other than those two, the guy you would take at #8 won't be any less of a risk than the guy you would take a #25....I think that is good for those in the second part of the 1st round and bad for those in the top 10 that will have to pay big money equvilent talent to what you could get late in the 1st round.

[Mile High Shack]

I don't think it is a horrible trade for Washington....This is a fairly deep draft it just doesn't have the top 5 type of players that really separate themselves from the next 25...So drafting 25th is pretty nice cause there will be quality talent much like drafting in the top 10 without having to pay crazy money...The net of this trade is giving up a 3rd rounder to accelerate next years 1st rounder. A deferred 4th rounder is about like a current year 5th which isn't much and and next years 1st is about the equivalent to a late 1st or even a 2nd rounder if their pick next year ends up towards the backside of the 1st round....If that happens you guys basically give up your 1st for a 3rd this year, a 2nd and a 5th since those last two picks are deferred a year.

I don't think it is a bad deal either way...Pretty even deal, I certainly don't get where many Donk fans feel like they made out like a bandit on this. Only way that will be the case is if Washington throws up a 3-13 type season.
You crack me up………Broncos make a good deal from a team that will probably have a 10ish 1st round pick next year……and it’s an “ok” deal

You make as much sense as the skins fans….the 1st round next year is only worth a 2nd round this year or whatever

Spin, spin, spin hater

[Tombstone RJ]

This is a very deep draft for CB and WR, two positions the Skins need. My question is, why do they want Campbell at #25? Is this a smoke screen?

There's no doubt they will try to get a good CB. My guess is they will take Matt Jones at #25 and groom him as the next Randy Moss.

Or, the Skins coud trade down from the #9, still get a good CB and a good WR, and an additional pick or two. So, they could be looking at CB, WR & QB, all in the first two rounds. But, if this is the case, why did they move up to #25? Why not just trade down from #9?

Hmm...

[Mile High Shack]

maybe they want Justin Miller?

[bendog]

The only thing really unique about this draft is there isn't any sure fire type picks in it...Probably Braylon Edwards and Mike Williams are the only two that might fall into that category. Other than those two, the guy you would take at #8 won't be any less of a risk than the guy you would take a #25....I think that is good for those in the second part of the 1st round and bad for those in the top 10 that will have to pay big money equvilent talent to what you could get late in the 1st round.
Keep telling yourself that. It certainly explains why everyone but tuna, father dick and the nascar guy are trying to trade down.

[fontaine]

Reports are that Washington covets Campbell at 25. If that's the case I draw a few conclusions:
1) They are paying (severely) for not having a second round pick because he is project to be a 2nd rounder. I'm not sure where they lost their #2, but I'm sure it was some hair-brained deal.
2) Their season could go south as they will probably get him on the field ASAP
3) They made this move to soon. Green Bay could jump them at #24 or someone else could trade ahead of #25. They should have let this deal wait until closer to Denver's pick.

I know Gibbs is getting up there in age but he's not senile enough to grab a developmental type QB at this stage of his coaching career. He's already said he prefers a vet (Brunell) to a 2 year rookie (Ramsey) last year when they traded for Brunell.

They could ofcourse go right ahead and draft Campbell anyway, and ship Ramsey for some picks but why bother making the trade public and official now with the Broncos if they do want Campbell rather that waiting draft day and not reveal their plans to other teams that want Campbell too?

[bloodsunday]

I know Gibbs is getting up there in age but he's not senile enough to grab a developmental type QB at this stage of his coaching career.
yeah I agree with this. This, I believe, is a smokescreen. I just read a chat with Gary Horton and he believes that Washington will trade this pick again, either to acquire a veteran player or move up in the draft. In fact, he said that if they have targeted a veteran player, the team that they are looking to trade with likely drove this deal. If that's true, I'd be curious to know who it is. Some have speculated Buffalo. What if it's an AFC West opponent, Oakland? Now that Oakland has two #2s and two #3s maybe they are looking to get into round 1.

[RhymesayersDU]

What I found funny was a bunch of comments like:
1) Well if Ramsey completes a few more balls we are 8 - 8
2) If our offense averages 21 pts a game we are 13 -2 -1

When I see things like this, I am glad the Mane is a no BS site. Seriously.

Considering the same arguments are made for Jake Plummer on a daily basis, you may not want to go with "The Mane is a no BS site" on this issue.

I like Jake personally, but just sayin'...

[Mediator12]

Two things crack me up in the evaluation of this trade.

1. We wanted out and got a good deal for the 25th pick. We wanted out because after 10-11 picks the guys left graded out as second round talent and were going to earn a premium contract due to the system and not at their talent level. For once, financial and Talent evaluation caught up with each other. This whole offseason seems to be a switch from "Win now at any cost, to Upgrade the future with potential younger and more talented risks." I can live with that.

2. Next years draft is so much deeper with the senior class than this year. What is astounding is the junior class additions who declare. If a few Reggie Bush, Ahmad Brooks, and Santonio Holmes type guys declare the value of the round goes even further to value. Therefore, downgrading a 1st to second in value is ludicrous, and the fourth may be more like a third than a fifth if it is a higher pick.

One other thing that is funny, the depth of this draft is in the second and third rounds and not the first. There are more high caliber potential starters lurking there and teams will get better value off of their rookie contracts. Plus, the expectations of being a first rounder are not being placed on a second round talent. Guys will come in and compete and have an opportunity without having to develop immediately.

Hopefully, the draft will go towards solid picks instead of pure potential in round three. The swing and misses of Cole, Davis, Mcgriff, and Watson were in rounds with a first. The lack of a first could be a move to finding more solid guys IMHO.

[bendog]

Lots of corners and wrs in rounds 3,4 and 5. Given the age on both lines, developmental guys there might not be bad.

But in general, once you get to rd 3 and beyond, most everbody is developmental ... unless they're a kicker/punter

[Traveler]

The Skins will be better than alot of us expect. I'm looking for the choice we got from them to be in the mid teens next year. As an aside, keep in mind that recently whenever we get rid of some players that didn't work out for us or were cut for salary cap reasons, their new team usually finds a way to beat us when we play them. Cincinnati (Deltha and Tory James last season) and Baltimore (Shannon in the playoffs) are cases in point. Let's just wait till next year and see how all this shakes out.

[Traveler]

One other thing that is funny, the depth of this draft is in the second and third rounds and not the first. There are more high caliber potential starters lurking there and teams will get better value off of their rookie contracts. Plus, the expectations of being a first rounder are not being placed on a second round talent. Guys will come in and compete and have an opportunity without having to develop immediately.

Hopefully, the draft will go towards solid picks instead of pure potential in round three. The swing and misses of Cole, Davis, Mcgriff, and Watson were in rounds with a first. The lack of a first could be a move to finding more solid guys IMHO.

Great quote M12! The choices we get with these mid round pick is my only concern. We need to hit on all of them. Especially for the long health of the team. We are getting pretty long in the tooth at some positions and we need to start restocking the shelves now.

[bloodsunday]

The Skins will be better than alot of us expect. I'm looking for the choice we got from them to be in the mid teens next year.
They could be better, but they are going to have to fight for 3rd in their Division, IMO. That means they can't reasonably expect to be better than a 9 - 7 team. They play the AFC West, which is likely going to be loaded this season and should drag them down a bit. Nonetheless, two picks in round 1 next year gives us a bunch of options. And I'm not sure we want a top 10 pick just for salary cap reasons.

As an aside, keep in mind that recently whenever we get rid of some players that didn't work out for us or were cut for salary cap reasons, their new team usually finds a way to beat us when we play them. Cincinnati (Deltha and Tory James last season) and Baltimore (Shannon in the playoffs) are cases in point. Let's just wait till next year and see how all this shakes out.
Well that's probably a loaded observation. I think if you tracked all the players Denver has lost, it would probably be about 50/50. The reality is that certain guys are more sensitive than others and it makes those games stand out more when we lose. It never helps when the player acts like an ass (see Deltha and E Kennison). I don't mind losing to Tory James more than any othter game because he is class.

[Bronco Yoda]

I don't think it is a horrible trade for Washington....This is a fairly deep draft it just doesn't have the top 5 type of players that really separate themselves from the next 25...So drafting 25th is pretty nice cause there will be quality talent much like drafting in the top 10 without having to pay crazy money...The net of this trade is giving up a 3rd rounder to accelerate next years 1st rounder. A deferred 4th rounder is about like a current year 5th which isn't much and and next years 1st is about the equivalent to a late 1st or even a 2nd rounder if their pick next year ends up towards the backside of the 1st round....If that happens you guys basically give up your 1st for a 3rd this year, a 2nd and a 5th since those last two picks are deferred a year.

I don't think it is a bad deal either way...Pretty even deal, I certainly don't get where many Donk fans feel like they made out like a bandit on this. Only way that will be the case is if Washington throws up a 3-13 type season.

LMAO!

Now this is some quality B@#$ S#@t. Did you find this somewhere or just make it up as you went along?

I've got to rep you on this double speak mumbo-jumbo just on the basis of sheer lunacy. Good job. thanks for the laugh.

:dummy: rep! Hilarious!

[wabbit]

Two things crack me up in the evaluation of this trade.

1. We wanted out and got a good deal for the 25th pick. We wanted out because after 10-11 picks the guys left graded out as second round talent and were going to earn a premium contract due to the system and not at their talent level. For once, financial and Talent evaluation caught up with each other. This whole offseason seems to be a switch from "Win now at any cost, to Upgrade the future with potential younger and more talented risks." I can live with that.

2. Next years draft is so much deeper with the senior class than this year. What is astounding is the junior class additions who declare. If a few Reggie Bush, Ahmad Brooks, and Santonio Holmes type guys declare the value of the round goes even further to value. Therefore, downgrading a 1st to second in value is ludicrous, and the fourth may be more like a third than a fifth if it is a higher pick.

One other thing that is funny, the depth of this draft is in the second and third rounds and not the first. There are more high caliber potential starters lurking there and teams will get better value off of their rookie contracts. Plus, the expectations of being a first rounder are not being placed on a second round talent. Guys will come in and compete and have an opportunity without having to develop immediately.

Hopefully, the draft will go towards solid picks instead of pure potential in round three. The swing and misses of Cole, Davis, Mcgriff, and Watson were in rounds with a first. The lack of a first could be a move to finding more solid guys IMHO.

Your analysis is far too deep and thoughtful

The guy who wrote the original stupidity is a dick...that's about all the depth you need with him

[easymobee]

I don't think it is a horrible trade for Washington....This is a fairly deep draft etc. etc. etc.

It's not just us "Homers" who think we robbed Washington.

Here is one example from this mornings Washington Times.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/func...21-123303-9170r

Click the Article Link for the Full 25 Reasons


What do I think of the Redskins acquiring the 25th pick in the draft? Oh, there are 25 things I could say:

1. The price sure was steep -- three picks (a No. 1, No. 3 and No. 4) for one in a draft that isn't exactly loaded with blue-chippers.

2. Not only that, but ... unless the Redskins finish with one of the eight best records in the league this season, the first-rounder they owe the Broncos next year will be higher than the first-rounder they got from them.

3. Anybody expect the Redskins to finish with one of the eight best records in the league this season?

4. Let's hope this trade was made with the team's long-term interests in mind -- and not just for its P.R. value after losing Fred Smoot and Antonio Pierce in free agency.

5. That might be wishful thinking, though.


25. Hey, it could be worse. The Redskins could have traded the ninth pick to the Raiders for cornerback Phillip Buchanon -- and added to the University of Miami posse of Taylor, Clinton Portis and Santana Moss.

[easymobee]

Here is the fallout from the Washington Post:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...-2005Apr20.html (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A6072-2005Apr20.html)




This one is mostly about the speculated reason behind acquiring the pick : QB of the future.

[watermock]

Explain it to me again how Washington got the better of this deal.

First, They are going to be lucky to win 5 games. Arrington is on crutches and going bolt, Smoot is gone, Pierce is gone, and they throw a second and third at Buchannon?

He was shopped by Oakland as a bust, and they trade away their 1st and 4th Denver, they threw away their second and 3rd to Oakland, Denver takes their 3rd this year.

Gibbs doesn't even pay attention at this point, and is playing out the deal. So they get two firsts in a weak first round. When they shoot that wad, they are out of luck for two years.

[Breck Bronc]

Explain it to me again how Washington got the better of this deal.

First, They are going to be lucky to win 5 games. Arrington is on crutches and going bolt, Smoot is gone, Pierce is gone, and they throw a second and third at Buchannon?

He was shopped by Oakland as a bust, and they trade away their 1st and 4th Denver, they threw away their second and 3rd to Oakland, Denver takes their 3rd this year.

Gibbs doesn't even pay attention at this point, and is playing out the deal. So they get two firsts in a weak first round. When they shoot that wad, they are out of luck for two years.Someone else besides Gibbs isn't paying attention. Washington didn't trade for Buchanon, Houston did.

[easymobee]

Someone else besides Gibbs isn't paying attention. Washington didn't trade for Buchanon, Houston did.

I was gonna point that out myself .... but i figured i'd let someone else step in.

Washington is out their 2nd rounder this year though due to having traded it during last years draft for a 3rd (TE Cooley) and its 3rd rounder to us.

So after the 1st round .... Snyder, Gibbs, and Company get to pack up and go back to the hotel.

Not having that 2nd rounder is probably what killed their chances of adding PB, which i would have liked to see for them ( 1 more U player for the posse and our chances of a 1-3 pick next year increase greatly with their current chemistry issues ).

Washington makes a very dangerous habit of trading valuable draft picks every year towards the cause of instant gratification.

2nd and 3rd this year traded. ( Cooley and 24th pick)

1st and 4th next year already traded. (24th pick)

2nd and 3rd last year traded ( Brunnell and Portis)

As a fan that has to get old.

[Breck Bronc]

I was gonna point that out myself .... but i figured i'd let someone else step in.

Washington is out their 2nd rounder this year though due to having traded it during last years draft for a 3rd (TE Cooley) and its 3rd rounder to us.

So after the 1st round .... Snyder, Gibbs, and Company get to pack up and go back to the hotel.

Not having that 2nd rounder is probably what killed their chances of adding PB, which i would have liked to see for them ( 1 more U player for the posse and our chances of a 1-3 pick next year increase greatly with their current chemistry issues ).
Lol, the overblown voluntary offseason workout issue. Makes for fun when there's nothing else to talk about after the combine and before the draft. Over at extremeskins they'll be jacking each other off over Taylor's highlight video at the end of the year just like they did last season and no one will remember where he worked out.

Washington makes a very dangerous habit of trading valuable draft picks every year towards the cause of instant gratification.

2nd and 3rd this year traded. ( Cooley and 24th pick)

1st and 4th next year already traded. (24th pick)

2nd and 3rd last year traded ( Brunnell and Portis)

As a fan that has to get old.Gibbs and company did the same thing back in their first go round and it seemed to work. We'll see what the results are this time in a few years. The Brunell trade is already a major bust.

[Northman]

Well, im not going to slam them cause anything can happen. if the Skins do have a good year this trade wont hurt them. i honestly can see them finishing 7-9 or 8-8 depending on their schedule. naturally i hope they finish a lot worse but you just never know.

[easymobee]

Lol, the overblown voluntary offseason workout issue. Makes for fun when there's nothing else to talk about after the combine and before the draft. Over at extremeskins they'll be jacking each other off over Taylor's highlight video at the end of the year just like they did last season and no one will remember where he worked out.


No doubt about the Skins fans still loving Taylor after this little piece of bad pub.

There is a little more than meets the eye though concerning these "voluntary" workouts.

I think some of the criticism is based on the fact that he wants a new contract already and isn't returning calls to Gibbs who has been trying to get ahold of him as of late due to the contract squabble.

There has been some talk about Gibbs picking Taylor over Winslow partly due to Taylor's commitment to be a dedicated attendee of these workouts (something that was touched on during last years pre-draft interviews).

[watermock]

My bad, Houston traded for Buchanon. So I mixed up two expansion clubs. I thought the word was that Washington wanted Buchannon and that's why they traded with Denver. I appears I am more confused that Washington at this point.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

IA deferred 4th rounder is about like a current year 5th which isn't much and and next years 1st is about the equivalent to a late 1st or even a 2nd rounder if their pick next year ends up towards the backside of the 1st round....If that happens you guys basically give up your 1st for a 3rd this year, a 2nd and a 5th since those last two picks are deferred a year.


Whatever, that's nice spin by a rival fan, but there's no way that a future 1st is rated as equivalent to a current 2nd round pick. Any other pick can arguably be downgraded, but when a pick has been traded that could end up being the first pick in the draft, you have to look at a team and truly evaluate how they could end up. You sound likes a Skins fan trying to justify that they didn't give up a ton for this late 1st. As it stands now, the only way the trade comes out even is if the Skins play in the Super Bowl, and I doubt even the biggest Skins homers think that is a legitimate end to their season. Then you look at just the quality of seniors in next year's draft compared to this draft in its entirety, and the trade becomes much more lopsided. Half of the true Top 10 stayed in school this year.

[Clockwork Orange]

Funny, I don't remember anyone saying that the Bolts acquiring the Giants future 1st rounder in the Eli Manning trade was basically the equivalent of a 2nd rounder. Or when the Cowboys traded out of the first round last year. Or when the Patriots did it the year before.

Where this bull**** logic of downgrading a future 1st rounder to the equivalent of a 2nd rounder comes from is beyond me.

The Redskins have drafted 5th & 9th the last two years and have done nothing this offseason to significantly improve. Even if they manage to keep at that same pace and their pick is the 14th in next years draft, the Broncos are getting over in this deal.

[watermock]

I'll set my opinion straight. Altho I have loved Dishing the "Plan", the fact of the matter is that Washington is so screwed up right now that the possibility of a top 5 pick is very real. Top 10 is almost certain. The Giants and Dallas can't possibly be that bad again this year, and they have to still play the Eagles twice and run thru the AFC West.

Gibbs has allready said that he regrets taking the coaching job, Arrington is on crutches, Smoot and Pierce are gone, and everyone knows it's a matter of days before CP starts whining.

You top that off with a high #3 and a high #4, you can spin doctor this trade all you want, but Washington isn't one or two players away from being a SuperBowl contender. They won't even escape their division, yet alone make a run. They have a 70 year old coach and a spoiled brat as an owner. I'll bet Hog Sinew to Mule collars that Denver's pick is lower than Washington's next year.

I never like to see a team give away it's #1 pick, but for a very late choice, Washington gave up the farm. Why, I don't know. I do know this. If we gave up our future #1, this years #3 and next years #4 for a relatively late first round pick, I would be going POSTAL.

Freaking Elway only came with a trade of #1's, Mark Herman and another #1. And that is when Denver traded the #5 and a future #1.

Washington doesn't even have a clue from what I can tell. John Elway for two #1's is a hell of alot different that this comedy.

In the back of my mind, I still think Gruden and Shanahan are scheming a way to get Mike Williams here....with Gruden apparently in his Bunker in Tampa, it wouldn't really surprise me if Gruden gave up the #5 for two firsts in 2006 and someone like Watts.

I keep thinking back when Wabbit said that Mike Williams "will be a Bronco", but the "plan" seems about as reliable as a kite in a twisting wind.

Still, with Gruden sitting on Brian Griese this year, what better time to move his #5 for a coup next year....he's got more political captial than Bush after Nov 4th and can do what he wants. It wouldn't surprise me at all to see Denver move up to #5 and take Williams.

I think it would be crazy, but stranger things have happened.

[bloodsunday]

Considering the same arguments are made for Jake Plummer on a daily basis, you may not want to go with "The Mane is a no BS site" on this issue.

I like Jake personally, but just sayin'...
Fair enough ;D

I agree by the way. I like Jake and prefer him to Griese, hands down. Nonetheless, he does need to improve his game if this team is going anywhere meaningful soon.

[bloodsunday]

I'll set my opinion straight. Altho I have loved Dishing the "Plan", the fact of the matter is that Washington is so screwed up right now that the possibility of a top 5 pick is very real. Top 10 is almost certain. The Giants and Dallas can't possibly be that bad again this year, and they have to still play the Eagles twice and run thru the AFC West.
No Kidding. Imagine how much more time we'd spend complaining about the plan if we were Redskin fans? Ouch.

[Joe_Gibbs]

Gibbs has allready said that he regrets taking the coaching job, Arrington is on crutches, Smoot and Pierce are gone, and everyone knows it's a matter of days before CP starts whining.

They have a 70 year old coach and a spoiled brat as an owner.

Washington doesn't even have a clue from what I can tell. John Elway for two #1's is a hell of alot different that this comedy.

Its guys like you who should apply to be a writer at Pro Football Talk or better known as "The National Enquirer of Football"

For the sake of this argument, I beg you to show me where Gibbs has ever said he made a mistake coming back. I dont want it from your "Source" like PFT but from Gibbs lips.

Its guys like you that listen to what the media says and you take it to the bank as truth.

As for a 70 year old coach, I will still take him over Shanny anyday. Ragging on Joe Gibbs has made this whole blog you wrote a joke.

I also crack up at a guy who makes fun of Snyder when they have an owner named Bowlen. Im pretty sure they both spend about the same amount of money each year.

Great post Mock! :dummy:

[Hercules Rockefeller]

and speaking of PFT, their rant on Snyder:

http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm

SNYDER NEEDS TO STEP ASIDE



The Redskins' 2005 offseason quickly has become one of the worst in the free agency era, perhaps second only to the Dolphins' disintegration of 2004.



First, receiver Laveranues Coles, whom the Redskins crowed about so deftly stealing from the Jets in 2003, forces his way out of town, despite a staggering cap hit.



In return, the 'Skins pick up receiver Santana Moss, who is staying away from the team's involuntary voluntary workouts unless and until he gets paid like the player he never really has been.



Then, second-year safety Sean Taylor decides to boycott the involuntary voluntary sessions due to his displeasure with a contract that curiously bears his signature at the bottom, and a date of less than a year ago.



Next, linebacker LaVar Arrington sounds off on the manner in which the team has handled his knee injury, chiding in the process the organization's revolving door of coaching staffs during Arrington's five seasons with the team.



Then, the 'Skins give up their first-round selection in 2006, a third-rounder in 2005, and a fourth-rounder in 2004 for the Broncos' first-round choice in 2005, the 25th overall pick. Although virtually everyone thinks that the Redskins got fleeced, the 'Skins believe that they got the better end of the deal, even though the team's 2006 first-rounder very likely will be a top five pick, if not the first overall selection.



Finally, the guy whom the Redskins acquired when they got scalped by the Broncos for cornerback Champ Bailey and a second-round pick last year is now taking up for his former "U" teammates Moss and Taylor for their decision to stay away from offseason workouts.



The difference between the Fins' free-fall of a year ago and the Redskins' experience this time around is that, for Miami, the 2004 offseason was an aberration. In D.C., the 2005 experience is the natural extension of five prior offseasons involving ownership-driven power plays that eventually petered out.



Through every bone-headed (in hindsight and, in some instances, foresight) move, there's been one common denominator.



Owner Dan Snyder.



As one league insider told us months ago, knowing what you know is far less important in this business than knowing what you don't know. Snyder, like most owners who derived their fortunes in other contexts, believes that he's smart enough to figure out the game of football. He isn't.



And like most really rich guys who wear suits all the time, Snyder surrounds himself (consciously or not) with people who say what he wants to hear.



An industry source put it best in this e-mail we received on Wednesday: The "Redskins are hopeless as long as Snyder plays what I call 'the critical owner position' and refuses to hire someone who knows what he's doing to do what [Bobby] Beathard and [Charley] Casserly used to do (which is why Gibbs won Super Bowls). Vinny [Cerrato is] almost as clueless as Dan -- maybe more so because he's supposed to know something. So they throw away next year's high No. 1 and two other picks to get No. 25 in a bad draft after losing [linebacker Antonio] Pierce, Coles, and [cornerback Fred] Smoot."



Other league insiders agree -- Snyder needs to (as Magic Johnson once said during his stint as an NBA analyst) "get out the way." Sure, the organization is making a ton of money, but it will never, ever win a championship until Snyder looks in the mirror and realizes that, when it comes to hiring coaches and picking players, he doesn't know what in the hell he's doing.

[-Slap-]

1. We wanted out and got a good deal for the 25th pick. We wanted out because after 10-11 picks the guys left graded out as second round talent and were going to earn a premium contract due to the system and not at their talent level. For once, financial and Talent evaluation caught up with each other. This whole offseason seems to be a switch from "Win now at any cost, to Upgrade the future with potential younger and more talented risks." I can live with that.

In that respect, I'm really impressed with the job Mike and Ted have done this off season. At this point, the only move I really disagree with is the Gold signing.

The other good thing is this insures Shanahan will be around for awhile. No way in hell he leaves before he gets to use those extra picks next season.

[-Slap-]

and speaking of PFT, their rant on Snyder:

http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm

SNYDER NEEDS TO STEP ASIDE

The Redskins' 2005 offseason quickly has become one of the worst in the free agency era, perhaps second only to the Dolphins' disintegration of 2004.

I love the sense of football history you get when you read this site. Here the author of this piece goes all the way back to 2004 to cite historical evidence to back up his conjecture.

:laugh:

[bronco militia]

I love the sense of football history you get when you read this site. Here the author of this piece goes all the way back to 2004 to cite historical evidence to back up his conjecture.

:laugh:

that is odd considering the Skins haven't done diddly poo since Snyder arrived.

either way, I love the site for voicing their opinions even if it means smashing our favorite team in the head with a 2 x 4. These guys are a refreshing change from the morons at espn, fox, cbs, etc and also enjoy how much they piss everybody off.

[bendog]

Its guys like you who should apply to be a writer at Pro Football Talk or better known as "The National Enquirer of Football"

For the sake of this argument, I beg you to show me where Gibbs has ever said he made a mistake coming back. I dont want it from your "Source" like PFT but from Gibbs lips.

Its guys like you that listen to what the media says and you take it to the bank as truth.

As for a 70 year old coach, I will still take him over Shanny anyday. Ragging on Joe Gibbs has made this whole blog you wrote a joke.

I also crack up at a guy who makes fun of Snyder when they have an owner named Bowlen. Im pretty sure they both spend about the same amount of money each year.

Great post Mock! :dummy:

Getting pretty defensive there, Joe. Seriously, not that I agree with mock much of the time, but so far, what has Gibbs shown to make you think he has a clue as to offensive football in the 21st century? Shanny has raped you guys twice in trades in two years, now, both in personnel and in cap. Bowlen is an asshole, but he puts winning products on the field. He spends money and stays out of the way. Quite a differenc in ownership.

[fontaine]

The best thing about this trade is that it gives me yet another reason to root against the redskins and Danny Snyder (My most hated organisation in the NFC)

[watermock]

Its guys like you who should apply to be a writer at Pro Football Talk or better known as "The National Enquirer of Football"

I have been offered better gigs honestly, I prefer to write here.

For the sake of this argument, I beg you to show me where Gibbs has ever said he made a mistake coming back. I dont want it from your "Source" like PFT but from Gibbs lips.

Your kidding me right? Mistake and possible retirement doesn't ring a bell? He's going to cash in his check and leave after this year. Gibbs made the R word last year.

Its guys like you that listen to what the media says and you take it to the bank as truth.

I listen to everything. You have everyone on the planet laughing at Snyder and you want to single me out for joining in? I'm the one that discounted "said media" and commented that it was likely that Denver wouldn't move out of 25 till draft day. To say I'm up PFT's asshole is ludicrous.

As for a 70 year old coach, I will still take him over Shanny anyday. Ragging on Joe Gibbs has made this whole blog you wrote a joke.

Your entitled to an opinion supporting a castrated coach under an idiotic owner. Gibbs put all his energy into NASCAR, then when Steve Spurrier threw his hands up and cashed in his 5 million dollar check, he was history as well. WTF are you talking about?

I also crack up at a guy who makes fun of Snyder when they have an owner named Bowlen. Im pretty sure they both spend about the same amount of money each year.

We take our jabs at Bowlen, in good fun. Bowlen is INCREDIBLY LOYAL to the Broncos, has done nothing but constantly spent to the last dime to support our team, and got the stadium done. He is generally considered the finest owner in the NFL, unlike Snyder, who is considered a total JOKE.

And before you rag on Shanahan, the guy has a record to run on. To think Shanahan or Sundquist or Plummer or Bowlen get a free ride here, your sadly mistaken.

We might fight like inbred hillbillies over who is running the asylum, but we all bleed Orange to the point of lunacy. I have nothing against Washington fans, other than they are chasing a stuck pig and everyone knows it.

Everyone knows that Gibbs OL scheme was stupid with Portis in there, who needs quick holes, the rest of the offense is a damn joke. Your building around Santana Moss this year? The whole thing is literally hillarious, and you have the balls to tell me how the world is spinning?

Shanahan just ripped the colon out of Snyder, and you have the gall to tell us how the world turns? Why not tune into the D.C. SportsNews today and find out what the real world thinks about this trade.?

[bronco militia]

I have been offered better gigs honestly, I prefer to write here.



Your kidding me right? Mistake and possible retirement doesn't ring a bell? He's going to cash in his check and leave after this year. Gibbs made the R word last year.



I listen to everything. You have everyone on the planet laughing at Snyder and you want to single me out for joining in? I'm the one that discounted "said media" and commented that it was likely that Denver wouldn't move out of 25 till draft day. To say I'm up PFT's asshole is ludicrous.



Your entitled to an opinion supporting a castrated coach under an idiotic owner. Gibbs put all his energy into NASCAR, then when Steve Spurrier threw his hands up and cashed in his 5 million dollar check, he was history as well. WTF are you talking about?



We take our jabs at Bowlen, in good fun. Bowlen is INCREDIBLY LOYAL to the Broncos, has done nothing but constantly spent to the last dime to support our team, and got the stadium done. He is generally considered the finest owner in the NFL, unlike Snyder, who is considered a total JOKE.

And before you rag on Shanahan, the guy has a record to run on. To think Shanahan or Sundquist or Plummer or Bowlen get a free ride here, your sadly mistaken.

We might fight like inbred hillbillies over who is running the asylum, but we all bleed Orange to the point of lunacy. I have nothing against Washington fans, other than they are chasing a stuck pig and everyone knows it.

Everyone knows that Gibbs OL scheme was stupid with Portis in there, who needs quick holes, the rest of the offense is a damn joke. Your building around Santana Moss this year? The whole thing is literally hillarious, and you have the balls to tell me how the world is spinning?

Shanahan just ripped the colon out of Snyder, and you have the gall to tell us how the world turns? Why not tune into the D.C. SportsNews today and find out what the real world thinks about this trade.?

rack em

[-Slap-]

that is odd considering the Skins haven't done diddly poo since Snyder arrived.

Odd that read that as a defense of the Redskins when it was clearly a slap at a bunch of hacks on the internet.

either way, I love the site for voicing their opinions even if it means smashing our favorite team in the head with a 2 x 4. These guys are a refreshing change from the morons at espn, fox, cbs, etc and also enjoy how much they piss everybody off.

If I want a bunch of knuckleheads voicing half baked theories and spreading baseless rumors, I can check out any fan board, including this one. I guess if you're saying you appreciate PFT from a comedic angle, I can understand where you're coming from.

[bronco militia]

Odd that read that as a defense of the Redskins when it was clearly a slap at a bunch of hacks on the internet.




I was agreeing with you on that point....like I said, Snyder hasn't done **** since he arrived.

[bendog]

I hate repping mock.

[bloodsunday]

Its guys like you who should apply to be a writer at Pro Football Talk or better known as "The National Enquirer of Football"
You will be hard pressed to find anyone outside of the reservation that doesn't think Denver got the better end of this deal "on paper". What it amounts to in the end is a different story and likely won't be known for years, just like the Bailey for Portis deal. Portis and Bailey both had sub par years last season, but Denver gets a slight nod on that deal right now because they got a 2nd which has turned into a very promising back in Tatum Bell. So, if the Redskins make a great pick or trade with that pick and Denver whiffs, then history may say otherwise, but today this deal is a win for Denver.

As for a 70 year old coach, I will still take him over Shanny anyday. Ragging on Joe Gibbs has made this whole blog you wrote a joke.
Gibbs was an excellent coach in this league, and may be again someday. But Shanahan is still regarded as one of the best in the business. Poll after Poll of his peers places Shanahan in the top 5 coaches in the NFL.

I also crack up at a guy who makes fun of Snyder when they have an owner named Bowlen. Im pretty sure they both spend about the same amount of money each year.
Fair or not, Snyder is considered to be a poor owner outside the reservation. He is well intentioned and wants to win, but the structure of the NFL just doesn't support the moves he tries to make. He is trying to win the Super Bowl every offseason, but he doesn't have enough of a nucleus to do that. If Snyder were my owner, I would love his support, enthusiasm, and desire to win. But I would hope he would be more hands off and be a little patient so that at least a 2 - 3 year plan could executed. Washington kind of reminds me of the Colorado Rockies in that they seem to change strategies every offseason.

[bronco militia]

.......While some in the NFL thought the Broncos fleeced Washington in their Tuesday trade of draft picks, the Redskins defended their decision at a news conference Wednesday.

Redskins owner Daniel Snyder and vice president of football operations Vinny Cerrato passed out a chart that assigns values to draft positions. They said the trade was favorable according to their chart..........

good god, how pathetic is that?!?!

lmao!!
http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36~86~2827797,00.html

[bronco militia]

lol!


http://denver.rockymountainnews.com/drew/042105drew.gif

[bloodsunday]

Redskins owner Daniel Snyder and vice president of football operations Vinny Cerrato passed out a chart that assigns values to draft positions.

good god, how pathetic is that?!?!
Reminds me of Shanny showing film to defend Foster's obviously mornic (but legal) play last season.

[bloodsunday]

lol!


http://denver.rockymountainnews.com/drew/042105drew.gif
While this is funny, s**t like this just promotes the thought that Denver sucks in the draft.

[Bronco Yoda]

'Skins trying to move up again to get Edwards

The Washington Redskins have already made one trade to get a first round pick and are now trying to make another move to get even higher in the opening stanza.

FOXSports.com has learned that the Redskins phoned teams in the top four on Wednesday, including the 49ers, who own the first pick, to inquire about moving up to one of the crown jewel selections of the draft. While the Redskins have not told teams who they covet, front office sources said they are trying to make a move for Michigan WR Braylon Edwards.

The Redskins have long been wheelers and dealers, so attempting to make their second move into the first round this week should come as no surprise. While Washington would like to make such a deal, they may not have enough ammunition, especially since they have already traded away their No. 1 pick in the 2006 draft.

Edwards is widely coveted as the draft's top receiver and could go as high as No. 3 to Cleveland or even No. 2 to the Dolphins. The 49ers will not select him with the first overall selection as they are still targeting Utah QB Alex Smith, even if they cannot work a pre-draft deal with Smith's agent, Tom Condon.

http://msn.foxsports.com/story/3556808

[bronco militia]

Reminds me of Shanny showing film to defend Foster's obviously mornic (but legal) play last season.

I thought about that before posting, but you have to remember he wasn't exactly defending foster, but showing how much of a liar Bill Cower was for ripping the Broncos in a press conference.

byt the way, I thought Foster should have been flagged for unnescescary roughness.....I have no clue why the NFL had to "change" another rule this offseason.

[bronco militia]

While this is funny, s**t like this just promotes the thought that Denver sucks in the draft.


it wouldn't be funny if it wasn't a little bit true.......

[Mile High Shack]

it wouldn't be funny if it wasn't a little bit true.......
Maybe a “tad” bit true

But we miss just as much as everyone else misses

[Bronco Yoda]

.......While some in the NFL thought the Broncos fleeced Washington in their Tuesday trade of draft picks, the Redskins defended their decision at a news conference Wednesday.

Redskins owner Daniel Snyder and vice president of football operations Vinny Cerrato passed out a chart that assigns values to draft positions. They said the trade was favorable according to their chart..........

lmao!!
http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36~86~2827797,00.html

I wonder if Shanahan signed the back of the chart before slipping the chart under Snyders door as an April fools joke.

[Joe_Gibbs]

Mock, forgive me for singling you out. I guess I dont understand the hatred for the Redskins from this site. Is it the SB loss to us in 87 or does it go further than that? The Broncos are my favorite team in the AFC. I dont have reason to hate any team in the AFC.

There is nothing but venom spewed here about Snyder and I would think according to everyone here about how you raped us for picks in this latest deal that the Redskins and Snyder would be your friends. Heck didnt we just give you more in your eyes for the second year in a row?

Its more than obvious that you all bleed Orange and follow your team religously. Props to you all for that. What I dont get is the fact and it is beyond evident that no one here follows the Redskins that closely but rely on what the media says. You all should know what Im talking about because even the Broncs get bad media coverage. I understand that it may be easy to believe what the media says because the Redskins have not put a winning team together lately.

One thing though I will clear up for you all. Snyder is not making any personnel decisions like some of you believe. Joe Gibbs is. This is Joe's second season as President and HC and last year was all new for him again. Our offense was horrendous at the beginning of the season and Gibbs shoulders all the blame for that. He knows he needs to adjust. So knowing Joe Gibbs history why is it easier for you to trash the man who has three rings then to say "Hey he may learn from his mistakes and put a completely different product on the field" then to simply say "The game has passed him by". I'm sorry Joe Gibbs does not like failure and I dont see a repeat of last season.

With my B&G glasses on I do believe this. If our offense with Jansen back on the line and a new starting center, our offense will be a total different package then you seen or "heard" about last year. One more thing. With our defense, our offense does not have to be the Colts, or Rams to win games. We just have to be better than last year. We lost 6 games last year by 7 points or less.

[Atlas]

redskins suck... they make great trading partners though

[DBroncos4life]

Mock, forgive me for singling you out. I guess I dont understand the hatred for the Redskins from this site. Is it the SB loss to us in 87 or does it go further than that? The Broncos are my favorite team in the AFC. I dont have reason to hate any team in the AFC.

There is nothing but venom spewed here about Snyder and I would think according to everyone here about how you raped us for picks in this latest deal that the Redskins and Snyder would be your friends. Heck didnt we just give you more in your eyes for the second year in a row?

Its more than obvious that you all bleed Orange and follow your team religously. Props to you all for that. What I dont get is the fact and it is beyond evident that no one here follows the Redskins that closely but rely on what the media says. You all should know what Im talking about because even the Broncs get bad media coverage. I understand that it may be easy to believe what the media says because the Redskins have not put a winning team together lately.

One thing though I will clear up for you all. Snyder is not making any personnel decisions like some of you believe. Joe Gibbs is. This is Joe's second season as President and HC and last year was all new for him again. Our offense was horrendous at the beginning of the season and Gibbs shoulders all the blame for that. He knows he needs to adjust. So knowing Joe Gibbs history why is it easier for you to trash the man who has three rings then to say "Hey he may learn from his mistakes and put a completely different product on the field" then to simply say "The game has passed him by". I'm sorry Joe Gibbs does not like failure and I dont see a repeat of last season.

With my B&G glasses on I do believe this. If our offense with Jansen back on the line and a new starting center, our offense will be a total different package then you seen or "heard" about last year. One more thing. With our defense, our offense does not have to be the Colts, or Rams to win games. We just have to be better than last year. We lost 6 games last year by 7 points or less.



Like I said before I have no reason to hate the Skins. Gibbs was a damn good coach and to some he still is, but you can't blame some of us here for cheering for the Skins to do bad this year when we have your first round pick. As for Snyder you can't say he isn't trying to win because by the amount of money he spends on guys he is. Someone there isn't evaluating things the way they need to be though and thats costing the Skins in the end.

[bendog]

Joe, you shoulda been here a couple of weeks back, when shanny whiffed on trading pryce, signing a guard, singing Heyward, signing Eukaben, signing teh rams/AF DE who signed with Sea, and almost lost Putz and carlisle.

But for that trade to make ANY sense capwise for the skins, they need to move both their no 1's and get into the top five, and I'll be really surprised if they find anybody dumb enough to do it.

[Drek]

There is nothing but venom spewed here about Snyder and I would think according to everyone here about how you raped us for picks in this latest deal that the Redskins and Snyder would be your friends. Heck didnt we just give you more in your eyes for the second year in a row? Man, I got no ill will towards Snyder. I'm actually thinking about adding him to my Christmas card list, after all, he's like a second Santa to all of us Broncos fans. :)

[watermock]

Mock, forgive me for singling you out. I guess I dont understand the hatred for the Redskins from this site. Is it the SB loss to us in 87 or does it go further than that? The Broncos are my favorite team in the AFC. I dont have reason to hate any team in the AFC.

Why should I care about 1987? Your hanging your hat on that? that doesn't deserve reverence, it deserves pity. It just shows your trying to live thru a legend in Gibbs when those times are long gone.

There is nothing but venom spewed here about Snyder and I would think according to everyone here about how you raped us for picks in this latest deal that the Redskins and Snyder would be your friends. Heck didnt we just give you more in your eyes for the second year in a row?

Snyder is a friend, like a Cuckhold.

Its more than obvious that you all bleed Orange and follow your team religously. Props to you all for that. What I dont get is the fact and it is beyond evident that no one here follows the Redskins that closely but rely on what the media says. You all should know what Im talking about because even the Broncs get bad media coverage. I understand that it may be easy to believe what the media says because the Redskins have not put a winning team together lately.

Explain to me again how the Redskins get bad Media Coverage. Half the media is in Washingon. Your telling me it's controlled in Denver? Noone is relying on the "media" at all, and I allready evicerated you on that stance. It's all over the NFL that Snyder had his boobs pulled off in a joke of a trade. And yes, we know that the Redskins have not put together a winning season together lately. That is what is so damn funny. They just handed us a top 10 pick.

One thing though I will clear up for you all. Snyder is not making any personnel decisions like some of you believe. Joe Gibbs is. This is Joe's second season as President and HC and last year was all new for him again. Our offense was horrendous at the beginning of the season and Gibbs shoulders all the blame for that. He knows he needs to adjust. So knowing Joe Gibbs history why is it easier for you to trash the man who has three rings then to say "Hey he may learn from his mistakes and put a completely different product on the field" then to simply say "The game has passed him by". I'm sorry Joe Gibbs does not like failure and I dont see a repeat of last season.

This is simply hillarious. Dick4Meal makes Gibbs look like the dead Pope. I don't know why Gibbs has to shoulder all the blame, I consider him a fine coach, better than Washington deserves. If you think Gibbs is going to "adjust", your totally out of you skull. Gibbs will run Portis thru the slow trap till he breaks, and go 5-11.

With my B&G glasses on I do believe this. If our offense with Jansen back on the line and a new starting center, our offense will be a total different package then you seen or "heard" about last year. One more thing. With our defense, our offense does not have to be the Colts, or Rams to win games. We just have to be better than last year. We lost 6 games last year by 7 points or less.

The Defense that has Arrington on crutches, Smoot in Minnesota and Pierce who knows where? And what is that "different package" your going to unveil with Portis running into 8 in the box every play?

Losing by 7 or less is hillarious. Go tell that to Cleveland or San Fransisco, or even Denver.

It's not important. We lost by 7 or less has to be the Mantra for every ****ass coach and owner in the NFL. When Vinatari kicks a goal thru the snow from 50 at Mile High, do you honestly think that we are all saying "Well, we lost by less than 7?"

Go catch a clue.

[Rascal]

What I find interesting is the fact that Bowlen had no influence or discussion of this trade. He was in Atlanta when an aid came and told him of the trade...all knew was that we were in negotiations. I think that firmly erases whatever possiblity exists of shanny being on the hot seat.

[bronco militia]

I think that firmly erases whatever possiblity exists of shanny being on the hot seat.

with Bowlen or the media/fans?

[-Slap-]

Mock, forgive me for singling you out. I guess I dont understand the hatred for the Redskins from this site. Is it the SB loss to us in 87 or does it go further than that? The Broncos are my favorite team in the AFC. I dont have reason to hate any team in the AFC.

There is nothing but venom spewed here about Snyder and I would think according to everyone here about how you raped us for picks in this latest deal that the Redskins and Snyder would be your friends. Heck didnt we just give you more in your eyes for the second year in a row?

Its more than obvious that you all bleed Orange and follow your team religously. Props to you all for that. What I dont get is the fact and it is beyond evident that no one here follows the Redskins that closely but rely on what the media says. You all should know what Im talking about because even the Broncs get bad media coverage. I understand that it may be easy to believe what the media says because the Redskins have not put a winning team together lately.

One thing though I will clear up for you all. Snyder is not making any personnel decisions like some of you believe. Joe Gibbs is. This is Joe's second season as President and HC and last year was all new for him again. Our offense was horrendous at the beginning of the season and Gibbs shoulders all the blame for that. He knows he needs to adjust. So knowing Joe Gibbs history why is it easier for you to trash the man who has three rings then to say "Hey he may learn from his mistakes and put a completely different product on the field" then to simply say "The game has passed him by". I'm sorry Joe Gibbs does not like failure and I dont see a repeat of last season.

With my B&G glasses on I do believe this. If our offense with Jansen back on the line and a new starting center, our offense will be a total different package then you seen or "heard" about last year. One more thing. With our defense, our offense does not have to be the Colts, or Rams to win games. We just have to be better than last year. We lost 6 games last year by 7 points or less.

You're way too sensitive and there are plenty of people on this board who say good things about the real Joe Gibbs all the time. Danny Snyder deserves nothing, except ridicule and I think you know that as well as anyone.

[-Slap-]

What I find interesting is the fact that Bowlen had no influence or discussion of this trade. He was in Atlanta when an aid came and told him of the trade...all knew was that we were in negotiations. I think that firmly erases whatever possiblity exists of shanny being on the hot seat.

I think the last time Bowlen stuck his nose into any trade talks we wound up with mega-bust LB and clubhouse lawyer Ricky Hunley. That cost us a one, a three and a five and the first rounder would have been Neal Anderson, who could have quite possibly won us a Super Bowl eleven years sooner.

[bloodsunday]

I thought about that before posting, but you have to remember he wasn't exactly defending foster, but showing how much of a liar Bill Cower was for ripping the Broncos in a press conference.
Your right, they are technically different. But nonetheless, Shanny was trying to defend Foster with those antics. He was also trying to protect the integrity of our organization since people pile on all the time about our cut blocking.

byt the way, I thought Foster should have been flagged for unnescescary roughness.....I have no clue why the NFL had to "change" another rule this offseason.
Yeah it was just so obvious that his block had nothing to do with the play. Not to mention he could have just hit the guy instead of diving at his knees. I like George, but that was a brutal play.

[bronco militia]

He was also trying to protect the integrity of our organization since people pile on all the time about our cut blocking.




I'm fine with that criticism because those that question the "integrety" of the oraganization don't know the difference between a cut block and a chop block....

[bloodsunday]

There is nothing but venom spewed here about Snyder and I would think according to everyone here about how you raped us for picks in this latest deal that the Redskins and Snyder would be your friends. Heck didnt we just give you more in your eyes for the second year in a row?
Mock is a bit of a different dude, you gotta let some of his s**t go. I know from experience :) However, we all believe Denver got the best of this trade. Most everyone, GM's around the league included, believes that. We believed that last year as well, but I think both teams hope the results improve this year.

What I dont get is the fact and it is beyond evident that no one here follows the Redskins that closely but rely on what the media says...I understand that it may be easy to believe what the media says because the Redskins have not put a winning team together lately.
Quite frankly you have said little to change that perception. The one thing you point out, Snyder's involvement, I'll get to in a minute.

You all should know what Im talking about because even the Broncs get bad media coverage.
Many of us, including Mock I think, believe that much of that media perception is deserved. Some of its unfair, like the idea that we are poor drafting team. But the idea that Jake is a much better QB than Griese is something that not all of us just swallow. Sure there are homers here, but there a lot of people that view this team realistically as well.

Snyder is not making any personnel decisions like some of you believe. Joe Gibbs is. This is Joe's second season as President and HC and last year was all new for him again.
You are never going to convince me that Snyder is not involved on some level with those decisions. His perception was earned before Gibb's arrival, but I am sure he is still very much involved with what happens, its just his personality, like Jerry Jones. He will try to stay away as long as he can so as not to push a legend like Gibbs away, but is bound to blow up like it always does in Dallas. IMO.

Our offense was horrendous at the beginning of the season and Gibbs shoulders all the blame for that. He knows he needs to adjust...I'm sorry Joe Gibbs does not like failure and I dont see a repeat of last season.
This is just plain homerism. You have no basis to believe your offense will be better. Sure Jansen will be back, but injuries are a fact of life. This season its likely someone else will go down. Your offense was horrible last year and Jansen would not have made a TD better difference by himself. It take more than that.

We lost 6 games last year by 7 points or less.
No one cares, especially not Bronco fans. A loss is a loss. Besides, most loses in the NFL are by less than a TD these days, that's just the nature of the game.

[Rascal]

with Bowlen or the media/fans?

Media and fans. I don't think Bowlen has had any second thoughts regarding shanny. He may have had some second thoughts about some of the support personel but not Mike himself.

Mike is probably going to stay here till he himself wants to leave or we have multiple losing seasons (3 at least I would say).

[Rascal]

I think the last time Bowlen stuck his nose into any trade talks we wound up with mega-bust LB and clubhouse lawyer Ricky Hunley. That cost us a one, a three and a five and the first rounder would have been Neal Anderson, who could have quite possibly won us a Super Bowl eleven years sooner.

Oh God I remember that. That was a costly lesson.

[bronco militia]

Media and fans. I don't think Bowlen has had any second thoughts regarding shanny. He may have had some second thoughts about some of the support personel but not Mike himself.

Mike is probably going to stay here till he himself wants to leave or we have multiple losing seasons (3 at least I would say).

no way this trade erases the last 6 years of either mediocrety or underachieving in the eyes of the media and most fans...

[Rascal]

no way this trade erases the last 6 years of either mediocrety or underachieving in the eyes of the media and most fans...

I'm not saying that. What I'm saying is that it should erase any doubt the fans/media have that Bowlen is losing confidence in Shanny and he is on Bowlen's hotseat. The fans and media may have him in the hotseat, but that is meaningless as they don't write the checks.

[bronco militia]

I'm not saying that. What I'm saying is that it should erase any doubt the fans/media have that Bowlen is losing confidence in Shanny and he is on Bowlen's hotseat. The fans and media may have him in the hotseat, but that is meaningless as they don't write the checks.


ahhh....then I agree

[Rascal]

ahhh....then I agree

I think I answered your question wrong previously. That probably led to the misunderstanding.

[bronco militia]

I think I answered your question wrong previously. That probably led to the misunderstanding.

I thought you were stating that you had let Shanny off the hook because of this trade. I agree that there was never any doubt with Bowlen and Shanny's relationship. Some fans and most of the media have a hard time with this arrangement.

we cool, bro!

[bendog]

I dunno, Slap. Gibbs was an excellent coach. He may still be. I could criticize and say that instead of morphing his playbook and the bugel line to take advantage of a guy with serious 4.4 spead and the best cuts in the game today, he plowed the guy straight ahead for 3.5 and a cloud of dust. But, the skins didn't have much of an offensive line to start with. Cleary he misfired on Brunnell. That was his call, not the front office. Now he's building a recieving corpse behind santa moss, but maybe that was a front office call.

Snyder and the Gm are fubars; that's proven. Whether Gibbs has anything left, seems 50-50, to me.

ps, but on the other hand, the Redskins could land the second WR behind Edwards with their pick, and carlos rodgers or at worst webster with ours. Two pretty good players, but as another poster noted, neither will be of great help as rookies, and they lose their pick next year in a deeper draft, plus the 3 and 4 picks. It's a smaller version of last year's trade. Den gets at least equal value on one player and prolly an extra player as well. Den does have to wait a year, though.

[dbroncos31]

Who can argue with that?
mock, that was called sarcasm. and the quote at the bottom was me trying to make fun of the washington fans. obviously it was very unfunny.

[Odysseus]

no way this trade erases the last 6 years of either mediocrety or underachieving in the eyes of the media and most fans...

You are right. NOTHING is going to erase the last six years even if he won the Super Bowl. This is part of the unrealistic crap that makes our modern NFL lacking in any sense of loyalty, honor, or tradition. We are creating a sport where if you don't sell your mother to the devil you aren't committed to the sport.

I think "most fans" have lost their minds. They don't know the game, the players or anything more than the beer man and think because they can read what some guy I wouldn't have picked on my dodgeball team has to say that they have an opinion.

I would have to agree. Most fans don't see my point of view but it doesn't make it any less valid. It's too bad that I'm in the minority and think Shanny should have one more year free of badgering. I think the Broncos are doing the right things and they have my support.

[Garcia Bronco]

Joe...I'll tell you something about about Diaper Dan....he's an idiot when it comes to running a football team. He and the organization play fantasy football every off-season. I've lived in Virginia my whole life...and I can tell you that the current Redskins are a complete joke as an organization....the sad part about all of this is...it's probably going to ruin Joe's legacy in the game. Bethard already ruined his own. Not to mention Diaper Dan treats the Hogs like ****. The team should parade those guys once a week around the stadium....and while we're at it...**** that ********** Jack Kent for not leaving the team to his kids....


Other than that....Diaper Dan is a good businessman

[sirhcyennek81]

I was in DC the first year snyder owned the team. The flow of BS coming from the Redskins made the Bengals look credible. Washington basically handed Denver a top 7 pick. Good work, danny boy.

[Ballhawk]

All Redskin fans should understand that it has been a very, very long time since we have even thought of the possibility of a top 5 pick. Say what you want about Shanny, but an 8-8 record under him is a horrible season and a 5-11 year is quite seriously unconceivable.

This trade may be as close as we will get to a pick in the first 2 hours of draft day for a good many years.

[Kaylore]

All Redskin fans should understand that it has been a very, very long time since we have even thought of the possibility of a top 5 pick. Say what you want about Shanny, but an 8-8 record under him is a horrible season and a 5-11 year is quite seriously unconceivable.

This trade may be as close as we will get to a pick in the first 2 hours of draft day for a good many years.
So true. I read somewhere we're the last team to not pick in the top ten in something like ten years. People dog Shanahan, but he can usually always get you at least 8 wins.

[Taco John]

it is beyond evident that no one here follows the Redskins that closely but rely on what the media says.


My best friend is a Redskins fan, about as die hard as they come... If I want the bottom line on the Redskins, I just ask him... He completely understands why I'm rooting against the Redskins. Mostly, because he was doing the same thing against the Saints when the Redskins were in our position before...

[Atlas]

You are right. NOTHING is going to erase the last six years even if he won the Super Bowl. This is part of the unrealistic crap that makes our modern NFL lacking in any sense of loyalty, honor, or tradition. We are creating a sport where if you don't sell your mother to the devil you aren't committed to the sport.

I think "most fans" have lost their minds. They don't know the game, the players or anything more than the beer man and think because they can read what some guy I wouldn't have picked on my dodgeball team has to say that they have an opinion.

I would have to agree. Most fans don't see my point of view but it doesn't make it any less valid. It's too bad that I'm in the minority and think Shanny should have one more year free of badgering. I think the Broncos are doing the right things and they have my support.


Rep

[Rascal]

So true. I read somewhere we're the last team to not pick in the top ten in something like ten years. People dog Shanahan, but he can usually always get you at least 8 wins.

Where did we pick in 2002 (after the 2001 debacle)?

[Breck Bronc]

Where did we pick in 2002 (after the 2001 debacle)?We picked Lelie at #19 that year.

[Atlas]

Where did we pick in 2002 (after the 2001 debacle)?


We picked in N.Y. City where every other NFL team did.

[Kaylore]

Where did we pick in 2002 (after the 2001 debacle)?
19 and missed a certain safety I'm sure you've all heard of...

[Breck Bronc]

I believe we had the #10 pick in the 2000 draft until we traded down to #15 with Baltimore. Both teams took duds, Baltimore with Travis Taylor and Denver with Deltha O'neal (Julian Peterson was selected one spot below O'neal, ouch).

[-Slap-]

I believe we had the #10 pick in the 2000 draft until we traded down to #15 with Baltimore. Both teams took duds, Baltimore with Travis Taylor and Denver with Deltha O'neal (Julian Peterson was selected one spot below O'neal, ouch).

I wanted Urlacher so badly that year. Kills me that we came so close to Julian Peterson and Mike Brown.

[Taco John]

I wanted Urlacher so badly that year. Kills me that we came so close to Julian Peterson and Mike Brown.


I already had my thumb in my mouth thinking about missing Ed Reed. Why force a man to go full fetal!?

[sgbfan]

I believe we had the #10 pick in the 2000 draft until we traded down to #15 with Baltimore. Both teams took duds, Baltimore with Travis Taylor and Denver with Deltha O'neal (Julian Peterson was selected one spot below O'neal, ouch).
everybody talks so bad about Deltha. He did the team a lot of good! Without him we would have never gotten DJ Williams. I think we'll see in time that DJ was worth the two draft picks

[Ballhawk]

I wanted Urlacher so badly that year. Kills me that we came so close to Julian Peterson and Mike Brown.

Slap, If we would have drafted Petersen, we never would of had the opportunity to sign Gold...twice!

[Kaylore]

everybody talks so bad about Deltha. He did the team a lot of good! Without him we would have never gotten DJ Williams. I think we'll see in time that DJ was worth the two draft picks
;D Funny because its true. Not a bad trade at all.

[orangefever]

I love Joe Gibbs, but I'm going to have no trouble rooting that his welcome back party is delayed for a year. ;D

Cant love Joe if you are a true Bronco fan -- remember SBXXII ~Popps~

[Drek]

19 and missed a certain safety I'm sure you've all heard of... I actually don't mind us having taken Lelie over Reed. At the time Lelie looked like arguably the steal of the draft. He's starting to break out now and he'll be real productive for us. Also, I don't think Reed would be nearly the player he is if he was on our team. Baltimore's defense puts him in position to make plays, we don't do that with our safties.

[Odysseus]

I don't think anyone who hasn't been to D.C. has any clue how loyal these Redskins fans are. I'm in a bar watching Dallas ahead of this team by 21 points. Nobody moveed, Nobody left, and despite an occaisional complaint they stood by the team.

"Yeah." said one guy who bought me a beer despite my ribbing "You never know. They might come back and win." There was 7 minutes in the game and the only thing that moved on the offensive side of the ball was the Cowboy defense.

When I was in D.C. you would have thought Portis and Gibbs was the second coming of Vince Lombardi. This city LOVES their team.

[-Slap-]

I already had my thumb in my mouth thinking about missing Ed Reed. Why force a man to go full fetal!?

At least when we passed on Reed, we still wound up with a good ballplayer in Lelie. In 2000 we wound up with the O'Neal/Gold/Kennedy trifecta of garbage.

[Taco John]

At least when we passed on Reed, we still wound up with a good ballplayer in Lelie. In 2000 we wound up with the O'Neal/Gold/Kennedy trifecta of garbage.



Yeah... I always feel a little guilty when I lament missing Reed, because Lelie has sure developed into a worthy target. It's just that Reed was impact in year one, and we're still waiting for THE coming out party for Lelie that puts him in the pro bowl and among the top tier.

[watermock]

When Dan Reeves passed on Lelie to pick Duckett, I don't think anyone blinked twice about drafting Lelie at that spot. Everyone was shocked Lelie was still on the board. It was the logical pick, one I would still make today. We need to get him off the market ASAP before he can run away, but I think he's loyal.

We still need someone to take Sharpe's place. A big boy to take over for Rod Smith.

[Traveler]

I don't think anyone who hasn't been to D.C. has any clue how loyal these Redskins fans are. I'm in a bar watching Dallas ahead of this team by 21 points. Nobody moveed, Nobody left, and despite an occaisional complaint they stood by the team.

"Yeah." said one guy who bought me a beer despite my ribbing "You never know. They might come back and win." There was 7 minutes in the game and the only thing that moved on the offensive side of the ball was the Cowboy defense.

When I was in D.C. you would have thought Portis and Gibbs was the second coming of Vince Lombardi. This city LOVES their team.

I know exactly what you mean. Having been born and raised in Denver, and lived in the DC area, both team fans are loyal beyond belief. Thing with the Skins fans is that the mood of the entire DC/VA/MD area is reflected for an entire week with a Skins win or loss. Used to be that way in Denver but you can really sense it in DC.

[Mediator12]

At least when we passed on Reed, we still wound up with a good ballplayer in Lelie. In 2000 we wound up with the O'Neal/Gold/Kennedy trifecta of garbage.

Wow! Slap the bias runs deep eh. All three of those guys are starters 5 years later. Sure, they are not great starters but "Trifecta of Garbage".
Would you have been happier if Toviessi and Nash had come from that draft? At least we have got a lot of value and service out of those three. Move up for DJ with Deltha trade, 3rd round Comp pick from Gold, and Kennedy Started for two years and will likely yield another Third or fourth comp pick.

I think I understand where you are coming from, but to say they are the Trifecta of Garbage is harsh from where I am sitting.

[Taco John]

Cant love Joe if you are a true Bronco fan -- remember SBXXII ~Popps~

I can't help it... When you look at what that guy was able to do with three different quarterbacks in such a short time span... The guy is just a winner... He's one of the best coaches of all time, IMO.

[Arkie]

Gibbs had 4 different QBs from '85 - '89, and three of them were pro bowlers.

[ØrangeÇrush]

and speaking of PFT, their rant on Snyder:

http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm


Then, the 'Skins give up their first-round selection in 2006, a third-rounder in 2005, and a fourth-rounder in 2004 for the Broncos' first-round choice in 2005, the 25th overall pick. Although virtually everyone thinks that the Redskins got fleeced, the 'Skins believe that they got the better end of the deal, even though the team's 2006 first-rounder very likely will be a top five pick, if not the first overall selection.




Yup,

They know what their talking about don't they, I wonder what we're gonna do with their fourth rounder from last years draft. The moron actually published this? Their editor let them? Nice fact checking.

[orangefever]

Gibbs had 4 different QBs from '85 - '89, and three of them were pro bowlers.


Gibbs made them Pro bowlers, not vise-versa