Justin Miller= Deltha 2????????

[NFLBRONCO]

Would you take Miller @ 25 SS if he stunk at returning kicks?

[bloodsunday]

Scouts Inc.: "Weaknesses: Lacks ideal size. Adequate but not great height. Is physical but lacks ideal bulk. An aggressive cornerback that will gamble too much. Needs to learn to make more calculated risks. He does need to learn to wrap up better in space, but overall he is above average in run support. Really slumped as a sophomore in 2003. Much improved as a junior in 2004 but there are still questions about his overall consistency as a DC. Gives up too many big plays."

Len P.: "Downside: Shorter than what most teams want now at the position. Probably relies too much on his natural skills and, as a result, inadequate in some key technique areas. Too anxious on the play fakes and will give up big plays. Suffers lapses of concentration and has never been known as a hard worker. Not always in the best of shape."

Sounds exactly like Deltha to me. Let's take him for the sake of naustalgia.

[SpringStein]

Absolutely disagree.

He started as a true freshmen at CB and has had 3 years starting experience, unlike Deltha who only had one year experience at CB.

Yes, he is shorter than ideal (5' 10") for a CB, but if he was 6 foot, we wouldn't be talking about him being available at #25. He is strong and physical (201).

I believe he will be one of the top 2/3 CB's in this draft, especially learning as he goes from Champ. His returning skills are very nice icing on the cake.

[Florida_Bronco]

I don't think he'd have a spot on the team. We have Bailey, Walls, Middlebrooks and 3 rookies from last year ahead of him. Bailey and Walls are most definetly the starters and if anyone pushes Walls it will be Middlebrooks. Shanahan obviously has faith that Willie will produce, or else he would have traded him like O'Neal.

He'll be good for someone but I don't see us picking him.

[bloodsunday]

I believe he will be one of the top 2/3 CB's in this draft, especially learning as he goes from Champ. His returning skills are very nice icing on the cake.
Maybe someone can develop him, but we aren't exactly a factory for DBs in case you haven't noticed. Let's pass on DBs and stock another position.

As for return skills, they would be nice, but you don't typically have a starter returning punts unless he is a stud or you are desperate (like us). He may be a returner for a year or two, but assuming he becomes a starter it gets dicey.

[NFLBRONCO]

Absolutely disagree.

He started as a true freshmen at CB and has had 3 years starting experience, unlike Deltha who only had one year experience at CB.

Yes, he is shorter than ideal (5' 10") for a CB, but if he was 6 foot, we wouldn't be talking about him being available at #25. He is strong and physical (201).

I believe he will be one of the top 2/3 CB's in this draft, especially learning as he goes from Champ. His returning skills are very nice icing on the cake.


Thanks for the info buddy :). I'm just leary of any CB being drafted by us with our track record :)

[Atlas]

Absolutely disagree.

He started as a true freshmen at CB and has had 3 years starting experience, unlike Deltha who only had one year experience at CB.

Yes, he is shorter than ideal (5' 10") for a CB, but if he was 6 foot, we wouldn't be talking about him being available at #25. He is strong and physical (201).

I believe he will be one of the top 2/3 CB's in this draft, especially learning as he goes from Champ. His returning skills are very nice icing on the cake.

Everyone gets on him about his size. Pacman Jones is 5'9" 189 and Miller is 5'10" 200. He does gamble alot but he has 8 ints his freshman year.

He'll be the best CB in the draft.IMO He'll definatley make more ints than any of the other CBs. I would definatley give up a couple long plays for more ints since that is what this team is lacking. We'll see who drafts him.

I don't think Denver will.

[Garcia Bronco]

We can get Eric Green...who's better than this guy in the 2nd round for Corner depth

[JCMElway]

I don't think he'd have a spot on the team. We have Bailey, Walls, Middlebrooks and 3 rookies from last year ahead of him. Bailey and Walls are most definetly the starters and if anyone pushes Walls it will be Middlebrooks. Shanahan obviously has faith that Willie will produce, or else he would have traded him like O'Neal.

He'll be good for someone but I don't see us picking him.

Three rookies ahead of him? If you're relying on Lesuer, Roc, and shoate we are in DEEP trouble. Leseur will not pan out at cb (maybe shift him to safety), shoate will be a dime guy at best, and did you see what happened to Roc when he faced a real pro? You may say he's a rookie, but that did not happen to Herndon or Walls in their rook season.

Middlebrooks and Walls are fragile. I have said it before and say it again:

CB IS A NEED position for us in this draft. And now that Gibbs is gone I am not hesitant to draft a CB first. Besides, where would any 1st rounder we draft start? No where on offense, that's for sure. Hm...maybe if we got Baas or Elton Brown at G, but that wouldn't happen untill mid-season, and Coop is solid enough.

DL? Maybe. If we got Travis Johnson he might pair well with Warren or at least get in the rotation. But, I can't see anyone worth it falling to us at that position. And we have a ton of DL right now. CB or S are the positions where we are weakest, and CB is the only position where a rook could make an immediate impact. Not starting, but certainly Miller is good enough to come in and beat out any of the aforementioned chumps for nickel or dime back. And he could help our anemic return game? I would nto be sad if we draft Miller at all.

There. Said my peace.

[bloodsunday]

You may say he's a rookie, but that did not happen to Herndon or Walls in their rook season.
Actually Herndon got smoked by Peyton the year before, but he blamed it on the cast on his hand.

Middlebrooks and Walls are fragile.
It's unfair to label Walls fragile. He missed all of last season with the same injury and he has not been significantly impacted by injuries before that. Most playes miss time at some point with injuries and they are not all injury prone. Besides if you are going to play that game, then we need another WR (what if Rod goes down?), another QB (what if Jake goes down?), another RB (what if Tatum goes down?), etc.... Injuries happen and often they are unanticipated. Only Middlebrooks and Courtney Brown have real injury histories.

CB IS A NEED position for us in this draft. And now that Gibbs is gone I am not hesitant to draft a CB first. Besides, where would any 1st rounder we draft start?
A corner isn't going to start for us either. With our history of drafting corners, why would this be such a great pick? There likely won't be a sure fire DB at #25 anyway.

No where on offense, that's for sure. Hm...maybe if we got Baas or Elton Brown at G, but that wouldn't happen untill mid-season, and Coop is solid enough.
Wrong, wrong, wrong. Coop is no more solid than our DB situation.

CB or S are the positions where we are weakest, and CB is the only position where a rook could make an immediate impact. Not starting, but certainly Miller is good enough to come in and beat out any of the aforementioned chumps for nickel or dime back. And he could help our anemic return game? I would nto be sad if we draft Miller at all.
I disagree. We have capable players at both of those positions. We cannot just force a pick because Peyton keeps burning us. We play 14 teams that are not Oakland or Indy. If we get some pressure on the QB then our DBs are going to look a lot better.

Justin Miller is no where near a can't miss prospect, period. Combine that with our poor history of developing CB talent and we are wasting the pick. If we need CB help, let's get a budget FA.

[DBroncos4life]

We can get Eric Green...who's better than this guy in the 2nd round for Corner depth



What are his injury/character issues?

[bloodsunday]

--- Len P ---
• Corey Webster (http://proxy.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft05/tracker/player?id=8131) (LSU)
Vital statistics: 6-foot-0 1/8, 199 pounds, 4.48 in the 40.
Numbers game: One-time high school quarterback and also starred in basketball, where he averaged nearly 20 points as a junior and senior. Played some wide receiver very early in his career before switching to the secondary. Despite shoulder surgery following the '03 season and some hamstring problems in '04, started in 29 of 48 appearances and amassed 117 tackles, 5½ tackles for loss, 16 interceptions, 51 passes defensed, three fumbles forced and one recovery, and one sack. Ranks No. 2 in conference history for the most career interceptions. Returned one interception for a touchdown. Had seven receptions for 74 yards. Was an All-American and all-SEC choice in 2003. A semifinalist for the Jim Thorpe Award in 2004.
Upside: Super-productive player. Gets his hands on a lot of balls. His combined 67 interceptions-knockdowns are among the top three totals in the draft. Great instincts. Nice size and long arms. Uses his hands well, both to redirect receivers and to fight off blocks when he comes up to support versus the run. Plays every defense well, but particularly effective in off-man, which is a difficult coverage for many young players. Aggressive in every phase of the game.
Downside: Has improved his speed but still not a sprinter. Will have to work on getting out of his backpedal quicker and on his breaks. Will gamble a little too often.
The dish: Had he gone into the 2004 draft, which he came close to doing, Webster would have been a first-round choice. Instead he had to fight through injuries and regain some of his confidence. Will be a second-round pick but still an outside chance he could sneak into the first round because his recent auditions have been solid.

--- Scouts Inc. ---

Corey Webster
DC (http://proxy.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft05/tracker/position?id=82) | (6'0http://espn-att.starwave.com/i/nfl/trans/1_8.gif", 199, 4.59) | LOUISIANA STATE (http://proxy.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft05/tracker/school?id=3483)

Scouts Grade: 84

Flags: (D: DURABILITY) Player that can't stay healthy(M: MENTAL) Does not retain and learn the system <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr><td colspan="2" class="tablesm" align="center" bgcolor="#ececec"><table class="tablehead" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tbody><tr><td align="center">
</td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> </tr> </tbody> </table>
Strengths: Has good size and man-to-man cover skills. Is technically sound and proven in press-man coverage. Is aggressive and tough in coverage. Has very good instincts. Will do a good job of pressing WR's at the LOS. Has long arms and a strong upper body. He is smooth for a taller cornerback. Shows the ability to transition smoothly and doesn't open his hips too early. Shows good balance in his backpedal and burst out of it. Closes quickly on the ball in the short-passing game. Also possesses excellent leaping ability (39-inch vertical), long arms and extremely good ball skills to challenge on the deep ball. Is a playmaker when the ball is in the air.

Weaknesses: Biggest concern is his lack of ideal speed. He's at his best in press man-to-man coverage but lacks great makeup speed if he makes a mistake. Might need to be protected a lot more in the vertical passing game in the NFL than he has been in college. Lacks experience in zone coverage. Hamstring and foot injuries really set him back in 2004. Durability is a serious concern. Is below average in run support. Not overly physical in that facet and will miss too many open field tackles. Mental capacity a concern; scored a 12 on Wonderlic Test.

Overall: Webster was also a highly recruited basketball star in high school but elected to play football. He played wide receiver his first two seasons at LSU but moved to cornerback in 2002, where he wound up as a consensus first team All-SEC and led the SEC with seven interceptions in his first season as a starter. He returned as a fulltime starter in his 2003 junior season and continued to improve his technique and consistency at the position. Webster was granted an extra season of eligibility (2004) after he was ineligible as a true freshman in 2000 but struggled through his final season due to a nagging hamstring injury and turf toe. Webster showed a great deal of toughness trying to play through injuries as a senior but he was nowhere near 100-percent. The first game that he was even close to full strength was against Alabama (Nov. 13), when he intercepted a key pass in the end zone and returned it 44 yards. Webster began the 2004 season as a sure-fire first round pick but missed one game because of injury and also missed time in several others. While it isn't fair to judge him on his hobbled senior season in 2004, there is some concern that Webster will never regain the same quickness and speed that he once had because of complications regarding his foot. In our opinion, Webster is still worth drafting in the mid-to-late range of the second round but if he drops considerably on draft day it will be as a result of long-term durability concerns.

[DarkHorse30]

Three rookies ahead of him? If you're relying on Lesuer, Roc, and shoate we are in DEEP trouble. Leseur will not pan out at cb (maybe shift him to safety), shoate will be a dime guy at best, and did you see what happened to Roc when he faced a real pro? You may say he's a rookie, but that did not happen to Herndon or Walls in their rook season.

Middlebrooks and Walls are fragile. I have said it before and say it again:

CB IS A NEED position for us in this draft. And now that Gibbs is gone I am not hesitant to draft a CB first. Besides, where would any 1st rounder we draft start? No where on offense, that's for sure. Hm...maybe if we got Baas or Elton Brown at G, but that wouldn't happen untill mid-season, and Coop is solid enough.

DL? Maybe. If we got Travis Johnson he might pair well with Warren or at least get in the rotation. But, I can't see anyone worth it falling to us at that position. And we have a ton of DL right now. CB or S are the positions where we are weakest, and CB is the only position where a rook could make an immediate impact. Not starting, but certainly Miller is good enough to come in and beat out any of the aforementioned chumps for nickel or dime back. And he could help our anemic return game? I would nto be sad if we draft Miller at all.

There. Said my peace.

Good calls. Denver's weakness in the postseason the last 2 years has been our secondary. Losing 2 starters from last year means Denver HAS to address the secondary in the draft, so why not "gamble" as high as you can, especially in the deepest position in the draft? We need more healthy corners to battle the teams like NE and Indy, especially with the rulechanges favoring passing games. Next year the passing games are going to go berserk, since the refs will continue to call bumping even more than this year.

[bloodsunday]

I know this thought process is shared by many, but its very scary to me. Haven't the lessons of the past few years taught us anything? We have invested huge money in DBs and picks and the results are the same! It must be somethine else. Let's not continue to waste our resources on a poor solution.

Denver's weakness in the postseason the last 2 years has been our secondary.
No, no, no. D-line is much weaker than DB. We can win with the DBs we have. We must get pressure from the d-line to take our defense to the next level. How can you say that its the weak link when we get Lynch and Bailey, both go to the Pro Bowl, and the end results are the same? It must be something else.

Losing 2 starters from last year means Denver HAS to address the secondary in the draft, so why not "gamble" as high as you can, especially in the deepest position in the draft?
This is actually counter intuitive. If the position is deep, then you don't gamble. Wait until round 2 when there are some players that are better value picks. Gambling is a recipe for disaster.

We need more healthy corners to battle the teams like NE and Indy, especially with the rulechanges favoring passing games. Next year the passing games are going to go berserk, since the refs will continue to call bumping even more than this year.
See this is counter intuitive again. Why draft corners if they can't be effective? Control what you can and that is getting pressure on the QB. If the QB doesn't have time to view the field then he can't complete the passes, no matter who is open. What's more the turnovers will start to come.

[Beantown Bronco]

Couldn't agree more with BloodSunday. The new "Point of Emphasis" rule favoring WRs has really devalued the shutdown CB position. Just look at New England. They are making no real attempt to keep Ty Law and have moved as far away from the shutdown corner mold as you can....in favor of more pressure up front and "average cover play". I mean, they got away with putting Troy Brown at corner and it got the job done. I have a hard time believing Troy is a better corner than half the guys the Broncos have on their roster now.

[Atlas]

A threat to score EVERYTIME he touches the ball

<TABLE class=v10 cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=3 width="80%" align=center bgColor=#dcdcdc border=0><TBODY><TR class=vb12 id=ig bgColor=#000000><TD align=middle colSpan=3>Justin Miller </TD></TR><TR vAlign=top bgColor=#e7e7e7><TD rowSpan=3><CENTER>http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/playerphotos/cb/justinmiller.jpg
Official Bio (http://clemsontigers.collegesports.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/miller_justin00.html)</CENTER></TD><TD class=V10>College: Clemson </TD><TD class=V10>Height: 5-9<SUP>3/4</SUP></TD></TR><TR vAlign=top bgColor=#e7e7e7><TD class=V10>Position: Cornerback</TD><TD class=V10>Weight: 201 </TD></TR><TR vAlign=top bgColor=#e7e7e7><TD class=v10>Class: Junior</TD><TD class=V10>40-Yard: 4.44</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top bgColor=#ffffff><TD bgColor=#000000 colSpan=3><CENTER>SCOUTING REPORT</CENTER></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE height=175 width="70%" align=center border=0><TBODY><TR vAlign=top bgColor=#ffffff><TD colSpan=3>Strengths: Playmaker in the secondary...Has great ball skills and a knack for making the big play...Very good speed and quickness...Fluid hips in coverage...Excellent athletic ability...Has a lot of experience despite being just a true junior...A threat to score every time he touches the ball...Physical and likes to hit...Also a dynamic return man.</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top bgColor=#ffffff><TD colSpan=3>Weaknesses: Only average size...Had a down year as a sophomore...Gambles too much in an effort to make the big play...Inconsistent and will lose his concentration...Had some off the field problems...Can be too confident for his own good.</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top bgColor=#ffffff><TD colSpan=3>Notes: Has just about everything the NFL is look for in a top cornerback...Not a finished product by any means, BUT a playmaker like this won't last long come Draft Day '05.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[Atlas]

verview: Top cover corner on the team...should be a First-Team All-ACC candidate this season and a candidate for All-America honors...listed as the #4 cornerback in the nation according to Sporting News, which also lists Miller as a second-team All-American...Thorpe Award candidate according to Street & Smith...earned Honorable Mention All-ACC status in 2003; he was second-team as a freshman...had two interceptions as a sophomore and has 10 for his career, tied for 10th in school history...has 32 passes defended through two years as a Tiger...finished the 2003 season strong with double figures in passes defended...also an outstanding kick return man; he is first in Clemson history in kickoff return average (29.1)...he is one of only two players in Clemson history to return both a kickoff and punt for touchdown (Bobby Gage is the other)...started all 13 games last year and 20 in a row...named to the ACC Academic Honor Roll in 2003; he was voted most improved in the classroom by the Clemson coaching staff...First-Team Academic All-ACC in 2003...only starter on the Clemson team who was named to Clemson Academic Honor Roll in both semesters last year...also named to the ACC Academic Honor Roll for the entire 2003-04 academic year...voted most improved at his position during winter workouts by the strength coaches.

[Mediator12]

BloodSunday you are definitely worth the price of admission for being the website of the month. If I repped more people you would definitely get more. I think we both agree it would be wise to bring in a VET with starting experience to play the nickel, but I am not sure who that would be at this point.

That being said, I disagree with you wholeheartedly on the whole CB issue. CB is an area of need and the staff thinks it is due to the lack of players being on the field at the end of the last two years (Insert: Lenny Walls had ankle surgery in the preseason last year due to Watts spinning him arond like a top in practice. Therefore, he has had more than one surgery due to injury in the last year!) As far as drafting CB's goes, I have heard all of the arguments about the lack of draft success, but I have failed to see the reason those picks are irrelavant at this point.

The fact of the matter is extremely simple: Denver no longer plays zone as the Primary focus in the secondary since Coyer took over. Both Deltha and Willie were drafted as CB's who would play less man than Zone. As the scheme changed so did the need for CB's who could play man. That is why they picked Shoate and Lesuer last year, they wanted some man Cover guys to develop.

Yes, Shoate was a reach but someone graded him fairly high in Man cover skills and they rolled the dice and may have lost. BTW, he was hurt for the INDY game last year but dressed for insurance. Many people at the combine had Roc Alexander going on the first day until they found out about his ongoing legal troubles at Washington. Denver took a flier on him due to his cover skills. And for all of Socal's ranting about fake injuries, Leseuer had surgery on his sports hernia. I saw him after it was done last year. That really means there was something wrong.

The more I watch tape of Justin Miller the more I am impressed. The more I watch tape of Fabian Washington the more I am scared. Perkins and Webster are two other guys we could later than first round and I would be all for. I strongly feel there will be a CB taken first day if not first round at this point.

[DarkHorse30]

I know this thought process is shared by many, but its very scary to me. Haven't the lessons of the past few years taught us anything? We have invested huge money in DBs and picks and the results are the same! It must be somethine else. Let's not continue to waste our resources on a poor solution.


No, no, no. D-line is much weaker than DB. We can win with the DBs we have. We must get pressure from the d-line to take our defense to the next level. How can you say that its the weak link when we get Lynch and Bailey, both go to the Pro Bowl, and the end results are the same? It must be something else.


This is actually counter intuitive. If the position is deep, then you don't gamble. Wait until round 2 when there are some players that are better value picks. Gambling is a recipe for disaster.


See this is counter intuitive again. Why draft corners if they can't be effective? Control what you can and that is getting pressure on the QB. If the QB doesn't have time to view the field then he can't complete the passes, no matter who is open. What's more the turnovers will start to come.

I used the word "gamble" because there are Denver fans, yourself included, who seem to think Denver "can't" draft corners, therefore they shouldn't. Maybe drafting Dan Williams should have scared Denver away from Trevor Pryce....or maybe we can't draft QBs because Reeves reached for Maddox?

Denver has reached and missed on nearly every position in the first round.....just like nearly every other team in the NFL. Mike Croel was a bit of a reach....so Mobley and Wilson should have been off limits two years later? Hmmmmmm.... interesting draft strategy.

The other miss in your post is saying that drafting a corner in itself is counter-intuitive.....because they aren't good enough? or can never be good enough because "Denver can't draft corners"? or because corners are too hard to teach.....much better to draft DEs up the yinyang because THAT will cure a pass rush. Maybe you missed last year's draft......

Denver needs more DBs because we let two starters go, and because one starter and our nickel are both injury prone. Seems simple to me. Draft your biggest need FIRST, in a draft with a lotta good corners. If you wait until all the best ones are gone, you lower your chances of getting one that can be an everyday starter by next year.

As an aside, I would have favored going after a vet WR or Corner this offseason, maybe Denver is waiting until after June to shop.

[Rascal]

Ronald Bartell in the third round would be a good pickup if we don't go CB in rounds 1 or 2.

[Mile High Shack]

BloodSunday you are definitely worth the price of admission for being the website of the month. If I repped more people you would definitely get more. I think we both agree it would be wise to bring in a VET with starting experience to play the nickel, but I am not sure who that would be at this point.

That being said, I disagree with you wholeheartedly on the whole CB issue. CB is an area of need and the staff thinks it is due to the lack of players being on the field at the end of the last two years (Insert: Lenny Walls had ankle surgery in the preseason last year due to Watts spinning him arond like a top in practice. Therefore, he has had more than one surgery due to injury in the last year!) As far as drafting CB's goes, I have heard all of the arguments about the lack of draft success, but I have failed to see the reason those picks are irrelavant at this point.

The fact of the matter is extremely simple: Denver no longer plays zone as the Primary focus in the secondary since Coyer took over. Both Deltha and Willie were drafted as CB's who would play less man than Zone. As the scheme changed so did the need for CB's who could play man. That is why they picked Shoate and Lesuer last year, they wanted some man Cover guys to develop.

Yes, Shoate was a reach but someone graded him fairly high in Man cover skills and they rolled the dice and may have lost. BTW, he was hurt for the INDY game last year but dressed for insurance. Many people at the combine had Roc Alexander going on the first day until they found out about his ongoing legal troubles at Washington. Denver took a flier on him due to his cover skills. And for all of Socal's ranting about fake injuries, Leseuer had surgery on his sports hernia. I saw him after it was done last year. That really means there was something wrong.

The more I watch tape of Justin Miller the more I am impressed. The more I watch tape of Fabian Washington the more I am scared. Perkins and Webster are two other guys we could later than first round and I would be all for. I strongly feel there will be a CB taken first day if not first round at this point.

I read this and I bet it’s a sure thing we draft him…………..

[DBroncos4life]

What was the news on Browner? I know he was slipping because of a bad workout and all. He is just a touch under 6'4" and would be a good guy to draft if he falls to the second round as well. I still like Perkins though. He would help the return game and would be a very good nickle/dime guy tell he learns what he needs to be a starter.

[Rascal]

I think I would rather pick up a CB in the third round then the first. Perkins or Bartell would be available and both would be good pickups.

Browner is to slow to be a CB...4.6...he will be a safety project.

[DBroncos4life]

I think I would rather pick up a CB in the third round then the first. Perkins or Bartell would be available and both would be good pickups.

Browner is to slow to be a CB...4.6...he will be a safety project.



I think Browners bad time was due to the fact that he put on 10 to 20 pounds...

Brandon Browner Grade: 3.65
Position: CB
Class: So
School: Oregon St.
Conference: Pac-10
Ht., Wt.: 6-3.5, 215
40 Time: 4.69
Grading System


BIO: Two-year starter and second team All-Conference choice as a sophomore last season after 44 tackles and 9 pass breakups. PAC-10 Freshman of the Year in 2003 after posting 43/6/6.

POSITIVES: Well-sized, shut-down cornerback with good upside for the next level. Solid backpedaling in reverse, flips his hips in transition and displays a burst of closing speed. Effective in man-to-man coverage and has opposing quarterbacks looking away from him. Reads the receivers. eyes, gets his head back around, and makes plays on the ball. Quickly plants, then breaks on the throw. Gets vertical and adjusts to knock away the pass. Effectively uses his large frame to box out opponents. Explosive run defender who flashes on the scene and looks to deliver the knockout throw. Defeats blocks on his way to the ballcarrier.

NEGATIVES: More of a long strider with built-up speed rather than a quick, sudden defender. Gets turned, not the most instinctive player, and at times does a lot of chasing. Marginally effective backed off the line of scrimmage. Often flagged for pass interference. Times poorly at the combine.

ANALYSIS: A defensive back with outstanding size and strength, Browner is perfectly suited to play press coverage at the next level and also has possibilities at safety. Possesses a lot of upside potential and has the skills to be a shut-down cornerback in the NFL, but far from the finished product -- needs time to develop his overall game and will only be effective in certain systems.

PROJECTION: Mid Third Round

[bloodsunday]

Mediator, I don't disagree that we need corners. I just think we need to be more selective about how we get them. If the draft is deep, then let's evaluate some guys who are better value picks. We have a recent history of investing in DBs we just need to think before we heap more investment into that position. Additionally, let's not be so quick to judge the guys from last year as failures. (Not you specifically but those that have already quit on them.)

Lenny Walls had ankle surgery in the preseason last year due to Watts spinning him arond like a top in practice. Therefore, he has had more than one surgery due to injury in the last year!
That is true, but only the shoulder caused him to miss any regular season time. The ankle surgery was more or less a clean up operation that is done frequently in the NFL on knees, ankles, elbows, and shoulders. Besides that, if the staff is so concerned about him missing time, why did they tender him a 1.5 million dollar deal and let Kelley Herndon walk? Walls came into the Denver system with Coyer and should be his "type of guy".

As far as drafting CB's goes, I have heard all of the arguments about the lack of draft success, but I have failed to see the reason those picks are irrelavant at this point.
That's fair. Projecting that past failures implies future failure is unfair. This could change with different scouts (and I'm clearly not up on their scouts) or with different coaches (Slowik). Nonetheless, when you systematically fail at a certain position, especially with #1s, it makes me nervous, fair or unfair.

That is why they picked Shoate and Lesuer last year, they wanted some man Cover guys to develop.
I feel that these guys need a chance to develop before we right them off, IMO. There are people all over this board that act like these guys are trash and should be cut now (again not necessarily you). If we bring a guy in as a 1st round pick, then by virtue of that pick we would be pushing everyone else down a spot on the roster and reducing the probability that they ever become a long term part of this organization.

The more I watch tape of Justin Miller the more I am impressed. The more I watch tape of Fabian Washington the more I am scared.
These two guys both made the first round in mocks this year based on their stats and the need for CB through out the league. That worries me. It feels like these guys are into the reach category.

Perkins and Webster are two other guys we could later than first round and I would be all for. I strongly feel there will be a CB taken first day if not first round at this point.
I'd be more comfortable in this range, especially if we make a deal to move down. Brodney Pool could be a good pick at this point as well.

[SpringStein]

I think I would rather pick up a CB in the third round then the first. Perkins or Bartell would be available and both would be good pickups.

Browner is to slow to be a CB...4.6...he will be a safety project.

I'll be quite surprised (and that has happened before!) if either of these guys are there when our 3rd round comp picks come up.

I did a 3 round mock with a friend yesterday, and it was interesting (and not in a positive way) to see what was left at 97 and 101.

[delany]

No, no, no. D-line is much weaker than DB. We can win with the DBs we have. We must get pressure from the d-line to take our defense to the next level. How can you say that its the weak link when we get Lynch and Bailey, both go to the Pro Bowl, and the end results are the same? It must be something else.


I wouldn't say that DL is much weaker than DB.

Consider the current Bronco roster

DE
Brown, Courtney
Coleman, Marco
Ekuban, Ebenezer
Garner, Randy
Hunt, Aaron
Johnson, Raylee
Nwokorie, Chukie
Palepoi, Anton
Pryce, Trevor

DL
Veal, Demetrin

DT
Davis, Dorsett
Elliss, Luther
Fatafehi, Mario
Johnson, Ellis
Myers, Michael
Pope, Monsanto
Renteria, D.J.
Warren, Gerard

CB
Alexander, Roc
Bailey, Champ
Cox, Curome
LeSueur, Jeremy
Middlebrooks, Willie
Shoate, Jeff
Walls, Lenny


Now based on the D that you think Denver will be running next year...which group scares you the most entering the season if there were no additions made? For me it is CB..your milage may vary...but DL is definately NOT 'much weaker'

Add to this the fact that there might be a CB available in the draft at #25 that can help out immediately on ST as a returner.

Barring a trade down (what I actually bet my vcash on)...I think Denver will go Miller in the 1st.

In reality though...I think each of these positions is a house of cards....and like every year...relies on key people staying healthy.

[bloodsunday]

Now based on the D that you think Denver will be running next year...which group scares you the most entering the season if there were no additions made? For me it is CB..your milage may vary...but DL is definately NOT 'much weaker'
Much weaker relative to production and necessity to the ability to win, not necessarily talent. Bottom line is that we need more pressure on the QB to be an elite defense. Our pass coverage, in terms of yardage, is pretty good. Where we get into trouble is A) letting certain QBs have too much time and B) not forcing turnovers. Both are a reflection of D-line play. Barring injuries you really only 5 DBs, you need 8 d-lineman to rotate effectively.

The blue print is out there. There are defenses doing very well without a Pro Bowl corner back. New England is the obvious one.

In reality though...I think each of these positions is a house of cards....and like every year...relies on key people staying healthy.
That's one of the truest statements I've seen in a while. It applies to every position on the field as well. If Tom Nalen or Ben Hamilton goes down, then what do we do?

[Mile High Shack]

If Tom Nalen or Ben Hamilton goes down, then what do we do?

http://www.cc-tw.org/tw/images/pray.jpg

[RocBronc]

Those who complain about how bad out secondary got burned in the playoffs last year forget... 2 of our 4 best corners were injured, forcing us to play a rookie. I don't think there's a team that would fare very good against Peyton Manning missing 2 of their top 4 corners... (not to mention their best pash rusher). Yes, we have lost Herndon but our 3 rookie corners on the roster last year will be 2nd year players and should be greatly improved.... Also, consider that we are very young in the CB position. (As opposed to DL)

I'm not saying we couldn't use some help at corner, but I'd rate it behind OL, DL, WR, S and then CB... Also, I just don't think Miller is good value at 25. He's just seems like he's too much "flash" and reputation rather than real production. I think I'd rather have Webster.

I think we all should brace ourselves for us really going the "best player available" this year at 25, and not necessarily filling the biggest "need". Which is why I think there's all kinds of rumors going around that the Broncos want to trade down out of the first round.

[bloodsunday]

Those who complain about how bad out secondary got burned in the playoffs last year forget... 2 of our 4 best corners were injured, forcing us to play a rookie. I don't think there's a team that would fare very good against Peyton Manning missing 2 of their top 4 corners...
How many teams could go into that dome and fair well against Peyton period?
It wasn't our corners that lost us that game. It was our offense and the defenesive line. Our defense stopped the Colts early, but the offense was never able to mount any kind of real attack. To beat the Colts in that dome you have to either dominate the line of scrimmage (like Jax did against them) or score early and often to keep the pressure on them and Peyton off the field.

I think we all should brace ourselves for us really going the "best player available" this year at 25, and not necessarily filling the biggest "need". Which is why I think there's all kinds of rumors going around that the Broncos want to trade down out of the first round.
I agree with this totally. But I think all the debate is that there won't be one best player available. We are drafting so low that you will see a bunch of players that have similar grades clustered together, some of them considered reaches or 2nd round picks. Thus the Broncos will have to solve this by issue some how. Picking the biggest need is one option.

[fontaine]

Now based on the D that you think Denver will be running next year...which group scares you the most entering the season if there were no additions made? For me it is CB..your milage may vary...but DL is definately NOT 'much weaker'

Add to this the fact that there might be a CB available in the draft at #25 that can help out immediately on ST as a returner.

Barring a trade down (what I actually bet my vcash on)...I think Denver will go Miller in the 1st.

In reality though...I think each of these positions is a house of cards....and like every year...relies on key people staying healthy.

Good post.

I acknowledge that CB is a position of need (not S).

But let's examine what we really have in CB: Champ and Walls will be starting with Middlebrooks competing with Walls for playing time.

That's three CBs that will get the job done. Behind that we have Roc Alexander, Shoate and Leseur. These guys are not studs but they won't be asked to cover starting calibre WRs. When Roc Alexander (who I think will be a good nickel/dime CB) was asked to cover as the 4th CB he did ok during the season and what's more he was very, very good returning kicks so drafting a CB who can return kicks is a moot point.

Any CB we draft outside the first round (with our pick) WILL BE DEVELOPMENT type! And we already have that in Roc Alexander who was projected as a first day pick last year until his legal problems surfaced.

Why bother having yet another developmental CB who won't get to see the field?

With our first day picks we have to go OL/DL. Both units are a house of cards. When you consider that the players in OL usually play every snap of the offense, you really have to question our depth!

We dont have a starting calibre RG. Coop is a good backup but what happens if either Hamilton/Nalen miss a couple of games and Coop doesn't play effectively?

Then we have NO answers, no depth because there's nobody there. Drafting an OG like Baas will give us the chance to trade down and have a guy who can backup two Guard spots and provide insurance for Nalen (because Hamilton can slide to C and Baas takes over LG).

There's no sure fire CB that can come in and start immediately where we pick and so any CB we draft will be a developmental type and we already have THREE of those guys in Shoate/Leseuer/Roc. Coyer plays more man coverage so anyone who thinks Coyer will trust a rookie CB to play man coverage ahead of Walls/Champ/Middlebrooks is nuts.

CB: At best any guy we draft won't be a bust and will push Roc to be the number 4 guy and see almost no playing time because we'll be going 3-4 on passing downs where the dime CB sees less action!!

G: At best we draft Baas who can come in and actually push Coop for playing time and actually have a chance to become a starter or at worst be great depth where we have none!!!

Drafting a G simply fills a bigger need and will have a far better chance to make an impact than any other position in the team including CB.