Trade or Draft [Archive] - The Orange Mane - a Denver Broncos Fan Community

TexanBob

04-05-2005, 11:54 PM

If they were smart, Denver would draft offensive line or possibly Heath Miller if he falls that far. Mark Clayton, if still around, is another possibility but Denver is now well-stocked on both the d-line and the LB corps. Haven't we learned yet that the Broncos suck at drafting corners in the first round?

If they came away with Khalif Barnes or David Baas, that would suit me fine.

TheNextStep

04-06-2005, 12:05 AM

Yes, now that he's back in the fold, trading him is out of the question.

No, now that you've re-signed Pryce, signed Brown, traded for Warren, traded for Ekuban, and traded for Myers, you should not expect a first round defensive lineman.

Just my opinion. I think you'll look for a cornerback, receiver, or offensive lineman.

watermock

04-06-2005, 01:54 AM

Barnes or Carlos Rodgers.

minibronco

04-06-2005, 09:16 PM

Look for an offensive lineman for the draft, i guess.

Cito Pelon

04-06-2005, 09:57 PM

With less than $3 million in cap room, can Denver even sign a first-riunder?

Pryce may still be traded.

DBroncos4life

04-06-2005, 09:59 PM

With less than $3 million in cap room, can Denver even sign a first-riunder?

Pryce may still be traded.

Not a top ten pick but the 25th pick yes.

Broncoman13

04-06-2005, 10:09 PM

Barnes or Carlos Rodgers.

Would be great in the first. Carlos Rodgers is an awesome Corner, but consider this..... If it's either Rogers or Miller I'm starting to lean in the direction of Miller. Two reasons, number one is he is a ballhawk type of corner. He makes plays on the ball and is gas with the ball in his hands..... which leads into #2. #2 is he returns kicks and happens to be one of the best in the bizz doing so. I wouldn't say he is as good overall as Carlos Rogers, but he is multitalented and a bigger playmaker, both in terms of making plays on the ball as a DB and returnman.

wabbit

04-06-2005, 10:40 PM

I've had a chance to chat with some local press and even a couple of national writers about what the Broncos will do & the consensus is...well, there is no consensus...especially after the Pryce developments only yesterday??

Not ONE local beat writer thought the Broncos would keep Pryce...only Andy DeAngelo of PFW thought the Broncos were posturing all along to get Pryce to lower his salary figure. He's the ONLY writer I read or talked to that was convinced Pryce would end up staying in Denver.

I have not heard two people pick the same guy...or agree that Denver will stay, move up or move down.

My feeling is that the Broncos will wait & see...that is...see who is dropping & what deals might be made for players they couldn't get at 25, but might be available at...say...15...or 11...or 34 for that matter.

Up or down is still up in the air, but I really don't believe they'll draft at 25 IF they can find a taker for a deal.

Arkansas Bronco

04-06-2005, 10:41 PM

Would be great in the first. Carlos Rodgers is an awesome Corner, but consider this..... If it's either Rogers or Miller I'm starting to lean in the direction of Miller. Two reasons, number one is he is a ballhawk type of corner. He makes plays on the ball and is gas with the ball in his hands..... which leads into #2. #2 is he returns kicks and happens to be one of the best in the bizz doing so. I wouldn't say he is as good overall as Carlos Rogers, but he is multitalented and a bigger playmaker, both in terms of making plays on the ball as a DB and returnman.

Basicaly the same way i feel about Rodgers and Miller. I think Rodgers is better than Miller at CB but after you ad in return duties i like miller just a touch more. I want to be sure R. Smith doesnt have to return anything this year to save his energy and as an injury precaution.

delany

04-06-2005, 10:54 PM

Only way I see us drafting DL in the first is if it's DT Travis Johnson. Even then I don't like that pick unless a few certain players that I like at this spot are off the board.

I would still love to have Pollak but he will be long gone anyway so that doesn't even matter.

I could see them selecting Travis...and I could live with that. the #1 ranked DT in the draft...a ton of upside...

Put him right next to Warren and give the Broncos more flexiblity so we are all not talking about the DL next year to the extent that we were this year...

I also like to see FSU and The U alum on the same team....it makes for good..chemistry!

My money is on them not moving the pick...and drafting either Travis Johnson or a CB (Rogers or Miller)....and then claiming that was the plan all along...

As far as CB goes...put me most definately in the Rogers camp..the dude has great size..unlike Miller who will be cracked on as a smurf, mini-CB...et al... I am sure.

labronco

04-06-2005, 10:58 PM

Basicaly the same way i feel about Rodgers and Miller. I think Rodgers is better than Miller at CB but after you ad in return duties i like miller just a touch more. I want to be sure R. Smith doesnt have to return anything this year to save his energy and as an injury precaution.

more and more, i think Miller is a safe pick. i am not sure if he's gonna last to our spot, though.

but there seems to be a lot of conflicting opinions this year, there's good chance somebody might drop to our spot. thing about us is that we usually target a player so i think more than anything there will be a trade either up or down. probably up. i just can't guess who that player would be.

Broncoman13

04-06-2005, 11:07 PM

I could see them selecting Travis...and I could live with that. the #1 ranked DT in the draft...a ton of upside...

Put him right next to Warren and give the Broncos more flexiblity so we are all not talking about the DL next year to the extent that we were this year...

I also like to see FSU and The U alum on the same team....it makes for good..chemistry!

My money is on them not moving the pick...and drafting either Travis Johnson or a CB (Rogers or Miller)....and then claiming that was the plan all along...

As far as CB goes...put me most definately in the Rogers camp..the dude has great size..unlike Miller who will be cracked on as a smurf, mini-CB...et al... I am sure.

While Miller is a tad undersized, you don't need a big cornerback for the nickel position. I know we have a ton of young CB's to compete for that position, but I'm not sold on Leseuer, Shoate, or Roc...... and I'm not sure that Willie can remain healthy. Mark Clayton makes sense b/c he can return kicks, but he isn't one of the more dynamic return men.

My personal opinion... Shanny and Sunny should look at upgrades all over the ST department in this draft. If we went with Josh Bullocks, Antonio Perkins, Terrence Murphy, and Dustin Colquitt in the first 3 rounds I'd be very happy with the draft.

Bullocks shores up a postion of need. Perkins shores up punt returner and 3rd/4th CB, Murphy 4th WR and future 3rd WR..... plus dynamic kickoff returner, and then Colquitt at Punter who would give us the opportunity to pin teams deep in there own territory. The more I think about it the more I want to use this draft primarily on ST's. The first round pick could even be used on Barnes/Baas/Brown and we could still get the 3 special teams players that we need!

SoCalBronco

04-06-2005, 11:09 PM

no corners (except rolle) or linebackers.

Pezman

04-06-2005, 11:13 PM

Finding a taker at the 25 spot could result in more headaches than ever around Dove Valley. Would it be worth the effort? Only if Al Davis and his blundering is involved.

Broncoman13

04-06-2005, 11:22 PM

The faid are short on my picks so they won't do it, but I'd gladly trade #25 for their 2nd and 3rd rounders!!!

Broncoman13

04-06-2005, 11:25 PM

Broncoman13

04-06-2005, 11:36 PM

For the record..... if he lasts to #25 even SoCal would have to like this pick.... CB or not!!!

JUSTIN MILLER
Cornerback
Clemson
Senior
5'11 | 190 | 4.41*

HOME TOWN:
HIGH SCHOOL:

*unofficial 40 time, Photo by Gene Galin
QUICK STRENGTHS: Strength, Run Support, Physicality
QUICK WEAKNESSES: overly aggressive at times
NFL COMPARISONS: Not too big, but plays big and physical similar to Antoine Winfield.
A starter since his true freshman season, Justin Miller has established himself around the ACC as one of the league's best and is now searching for that respect across the whole country.

Justin Miller is not the biggest corner you'll ever see. In fact, he's only average height and is on the skinny side. But the difference between Miller and all the corners below him on the draft boards is that he plays way beyond his size. He has the attitude you look for in a corner, aggressive and sure of himself. He loves to play physically and get in WR's faces. He displays excellent strength for his size and is usually able to get a good pop on the receiver at the line. He's also an excellent open field tackler who likes to come up in run support. In times where he's been sent on blitzes, he's shown good ability to shed blocks and get to the Quarterback. In coverage, he's fluid and has good recovery speed. He's shown good ball skills and plays the ball well in the air. Sometimes, he plays too physically though and draws a penalty here and there. Miller is also a dangerous return specialist who could help a team on Special Teams as well.

Cito Pelon

04-06-2005, 11:41 PM

My feeling is that the Broncos will wait & see...that is...see who is dropping & what deals might be made for players they couldn't get at 25, but might be available at...say...15...or 11...or 34 for that matter.

Up or down is still up in the air, but I really don't believe they'll draft at 25 IF they can find a taker for a deal.

There's still alot of deals that can be made. Too bad Droughns is no longer available to package with pryce to move up. Nevertheless, I believe the Broncs have two third rounders they can package with Pryce to move up, or . . . .? There's a lot of possibilities.

I like the idea of keeping Pryce, but I'd still like to see the Broncs move up enouogh to get a stud.

labronco

04-06-2005, 11:49 PM

In case you haven't noticed, I'm all for trading down rather than up. More picks in this draft in rounds 2 and 3 is better value than trading up to pick 15 or thereabouts. That is unless somebody like Mike William, Rolle, or Merriman are falling. I don't care what you guys say about needing another OLB. Merriman is so athletic he could play safety in the NFL..... if he drops to 15 make it happen Mike!!!

none of the guys you have mentioned will be out of top 15. i think realistically, you need to get into top 10 to have a chance at Merriman, and top 7 to get M. William and Rolle. Merriman and Rolle are super players, M Williams is just a rare, rare player. I don't know what we would need to give up to get into top 10. although the talent is thick on top, i feel that there is a drop off around top 10.

Broncoman13

04-07-2005, 12:00 AM

labronco

04-07-2005, 12:04 AM

There's still alot of deals that can be made. Too bad Droughns is no longer available to package with pryce to move up. Nevertheless, I believe the Broncs have two third rounders they can package with Pryce to move up, or . . . .? There's a lot of possibilities.

I like the idea of keeping Pryce, but I'd still like to see the Broncs move up enouogh to get a stud.

there's no way we'll trade pryce. it would be a pr disaster.
for one last time, we can't trade comp picks.

i don't know if we really have any tradable players on our team, really. besides champ, foster, and dj, whom we will not trade, who can we offer to move up into top 10?

now i don't have the draft value chart in front of me, but what we probably need to do is package our first and second and future first or second to get into that range. unless it's for a guy like Mike Williams likes of whom don't come around often, it would be mortgaging our future, and i personally don't want to see that.

trading down sounds good in a year like this where there just isn't much of consensus, but many other teams are looking to do that, and there will be sort of competition there as well, where we might have to drop down too low. another words, i would rather keep my 25 and see who falls down, than get a high 2nd and 4th or 5th, which just doesn't make much sense to me.

we have a lot of players on payroll already, it would be very difficult for a second day draft pick to make it on this team.

labronco

04-07-2005, 12:07 AM

I agree, and that is why I said if they fall to 15 then trade up. From 25 to 15 it would take a first in next years draft and probably a little more than that as well. But, if one of those guys, who we both feel are top 10 talent then go for it! Otherwise, stand pat, take Justin Miller, or trade down and address our ST's!!!

hey, bro. i think we are basically on the same page. justin miller would be a safe pick for us as much as i like the players mentioned before. don't want to pay too much to get up in this draft. too risky.

Ballhawk

04-07-2005, 05:10 AM

we have a lot of players on payroll already, it would be very difficult for a second day draft pick to make it on this team.

That is what IR is for :)

Tombstone RJ

04-07-2005, 05:40 AM

Denver should do one thing and one thing only: Matt Jones late in the first or early in the second.

bloodsunday

04-07-2005, 05:53 AM

I believe the Broncs have two third rounders they can package with Pryce to move up
The third rounders are compensatory picks and cannot be traded by league rules.

bloodsunday

04-07-2005, 05:56 AM

Denver should do one thing and one thing only: Matt Jones late in the first or early in the second.
I hate the idea of Matt Jones as our #1(25). If we can trade down, I am all for it.

bloodsunday

04-07-2005, 06:02 AM

I agree with the theory that Denver is in a position to watch the board develop before deciding what to do. There will likely be a team (Buffalo, Giants, Arizona) that is looking to get better quickly and move up to get a player they didn't expect to fall. All three of those teams would be good partners so we could get an early #2 (Matt Jones? or Jason Campbell?) and then some other picks.

Assuming we have to stay at #25, my wish list includes: Mark Clayton (probably won't fall), Marcus Spears (probably won't fall), Matt Roth, David Bass, Carlos Rodgers, and Thomas Davis. Obviously a lot of these guys may not last this long, but that's why I am advocate for trading down.

One thing, please, please don't let it be an OT. I think our tackles now are good and I think both of them will be on the roster for at least 2 or 3 more years (Lepsis will restructure). An OT would be a wasted pick at this point.

fontaine

04-07-2005, 06:15 AM

I hate the idea of Matt Jones as our #1(25). If we can trade down, I am all for it.

Yeah, I think trading down should definitely be an option. There isn't a glaring need on this team where a rookie can come in a immediately start with the late pick we have. I wouldn't mind moving back a couple of spots to pick up a 4th/3rd round pick because there will be plenty of talent in the top 100 that's pretty evenly spread out.

DBroncos4life

04-07-2005, 06:24 AM

Denver should do one thing and one thing only: Matt Jones late in the first or early in the second.

People "freaked" out when it took Lelie 3 years to develop. The time Jones gets ready to go he will be a FA unless we sign him to a 6 year deal.

bloodsunday

04-07-2005, 06:33 AM

There isn't a glaring need on this team where a rookie can come in a immediately start with the late pick we have.
I don't think this is entirely true, but I agree with the general theory. By the off chance that a guy like Mark Clayton falls, he could come in and start, or at least make an impact. Could also be true on the d-line or CB, depending on who falls. This is why I have been touting Bass, I think he could not only come in and start, but be a huge upgrade.

bloodsunday

04-07-2005, 06:34 AM

People "freaked" out when it took Lelie 3 years to develop. The time Jones gets ready to go he will be a FA unless we sign him to a 6 year deal.
No kidding. I don't like this tight end talk either because the Broncos obviously are pleased with Jeb's development and signed Alexander.

Traveler

04-07-2005, 07:46 AM

One thing, please, please don't let it be an OT. I think our tackles now are good and I think both of them will be on the roster for at least 2 or 3 more years (Lepsis will restructure). An OT would be a wasted pick at this point.

Aw c'mon Blood! :poke: :giggle:

We talked about this yesterday. :) Again, I wouldn't be adverse to taking an OT (Barnes) with the 25th pick. Even better would be to trade back and still select him, if by chance he falls. Also read that Elton Browns' stock is falling. He or Bass would be a nice pick in round two.

Defense is okay except for safety. I think it's time to start back-filling behind some of the older veterans who are on the downside of their careers. Especially on the OL.

Broncoman13

04-07-2005, 07:48 AM

Lelie was a very polished WR coming out of Hawaii. June Jones said he was the most NFL prepared player he'd ever coached. While I'm and advocate of drafting Clayton, you're fooling yourself to think he would come in and start immediately. He would come in and challenge for the 3rd WR spot but likely fit the bill as our KR specialist and then see the field more toward the end of the season. The reason I like the pick is b/c he will be an excellent player two or three years down the road and be able to step into Rod's vacated spot.

There are not a bunch of glaring needs on this team. One need however is a steady 3rd CB. We need a guy in the backfield that can not only cover but make plays on the ball. That is why I'm kind of hoping for a CB with our first pick. If Justin Miller is available we have to jump on him. He is very similar to DeAngelo Hall but more of a force in stepping up and putting a hit on someone. Plus, he could be a stud in the KR department. If we decide to trade down we can always look at a Marlin Jackson or Corey Webster as well. BTW, call me crazy, but Justin Miller as the ability to move into the FS position as well. He doesn't have ideal size, but he could put 10-15 lbs on his bones without losing a whole lot of speed. That would allow him to remain healthy and make some hits, plus he is great in coverage. Hasn't played the position though so it is risky. One of the things that intrigues me about moving him into that role is his ability to get to the QB on blitzes from his CB position. He has shown the ability to shed blocks and get to the QB, if he moves to Safety he'll have more opportunities to showcase that talent. Especially when you have Gold on the field who essentially is fast enough to drop back into coverage and run with a teams fastest WR's.

Remember, without a 3rd CB we are going to have problems covering deep teams at WR. Oakland, NE, Philly likely drafts a WR in the first this year, and of course INDY.

bloodsunday

04-07-2005, 07:53 AM

Again, I wouldn't be adverse to taking an OT (Barnes) with the 25th pick.
But what is the value in taking a guy that is going to just sit on the bench? Is the goal to win this year or next? The only argument I see is that we are worried that Lepsis will be gone next year. I think a more likely scenario is that Nalen retires and Hamilton moves to center. If we are forced to pick and the guy is the highest rated player left on the board, then I guess you take him. I can say right now that I would consider that pick average at best.

Even better would be to trade back and still select him, if by chance he falls.
I think we are all in agreement that trading back is the right thing, given a good deal, unless a player we don't expect drops.

dbroncos31

04-07-2005, 07:58 AM

Now Trevor is in fold, does this mean trading him is out of question? Since he is a damaged good along with the fearsome foursome from cleveland, do we still look at DL with first pick?
i say draft a good CB or S. we need more depth at CB and our S are very old.

Traveler

04-07-2005, 08:00 AM

But what is the value in taking a guy that is going to just sit on the bench? Is the goal to win this year or next? The only argument I see is that we are worried that Lepsis will be gone next year. I think a more likely scenario is that Nalen retires and Hamilton moves to center. If we are forced to pick and the guy is the highest rated player left on the board, then I guess you take him. I can say right now that I would consider that pick average at best.

The goal is to win everyone year. But the team doesn't have to mortgage the future to do so. There have already been statements that Nalen won't be back next year and Lepsis wants to test the FA market. So it only makes sense to bring someone in this year just in case those situations come to fruition.

bloodsunday

04-07-2005, 08:13 AM

The goal is to win everyone year. But the team doesn't have to mortgage the future to do so.
Well, unfortunately I think that is the position we have put ourselves in. We are on the wrongside of the cap and have precious few draft picks. Could you imagine our draft without the compensatory selections? Ouch. Until we get these things in our favor, we will always be delaying the "hit" that is bound to come. In fact, in some ways I have been a proponent of tanking a year to purge some of this dead money and acquire picks.

Besides, is drafting Baas any worse than Kalif? Baas could play this year and next (if those scenarios come to happen).

fontaine

04-07-2005, 08:16 AM

But the team doesn't have to mortgage the future to do so. There have already been statements that Nalen won't be back next year and Lepsis wants to test the FA market.

Where, when did they say that?

long beach bronco

04-07-2005, 09:12 AM

I would draft Brandon Browner, he's a faster version of Lenny Walls and just as tall as Lenny. He could step in right away and play the nickle or even beat out Lenny, but we do need another good corner or two for that matter. I would then focus on WR, a big one like in Vincent Jackson or Matt Jones. We have four first day picks, so we should get 4 decent players and if we trade down, that would be even better.

Traveler

04-07-2005, 09:15 AM

Where, when did they say that?

I believe it's from the Broncos website. It was one of the articles when Lepsis, Nalen and Rod restructured their contracts. Basically stated that there is a strong possibility that Nalen would retire after this season and Lepsis' re-structured contract would allow him to become a FA after the season.

Smilin Assassin

04-07-2005, 11:32 AM

I still think D-line should get a long, hard look.

I'm very happy we re-signed Trevor. But, look at the line we're trotting out on to the field this yr.

Trevor: Coming off major injury and missed 14 games last yr and we'll prolly go though same contract squabble next yr should he play well.
C.Brown: Also missed 14 games last yr, and hasn't proved he can stay on the field (yet) and is due huge roster bonus in march of '06
Ekuban: Coming off offseason surgery (not sure how long he signed, one-two yrs?)
D. Davis: Hasn't stayed on the field, coming off IR. Still relatively unkown
L.Ellis: Probably his final yr in the NFL. Coming off IR this yr.
G. Warren: Even if he finally blossums, he's on a one yr trial/deal.

I mean, I know it was in an article today that the Broncos currently have 17 D-lineman on the roster, but...the bulk of the players that will be getting playing time and contributing are basically one one yr deals to be determined next march.

We need to start thinking about the future and possibly get a stud to rotate in this yr as well.

bloodsunday

04-07-2005, 11:53 AM

We need to start thinking about the future and possibly get a stud to rotate in this yr as well.
That's tough, we just have bad luck with d-lineman. I see your logic, but man I don't know. Mel Kiper says the DT, Johnson, from Florida State is our man, even with Trevor back.

bronco militia

04-07-2005, 11:54 AM

That's tough, we just have bad luck with d-lineman. I see your logic, but man I don't know. Mel Kiper says the DT, Johnson, from Florida State is our man, even with Trevor back.

that would make sense..Trevor doesn't play (or want to play) tackle anymore.

Atlas

04-07-2005, 12:36 PM

As far as CB goes...put me most definately in the Rogers camp..the dude has great size..unlike Miller who will be cracked on as a smurf, mini-CB...et al... I am sure.

Miller isn't tall at 5'10" but he is a very solid 205 lbs.

Justin Miller CB Clemson

Atlas

04-07-2005, 12:38 PM

People "freaked" out when it took Lelie 3 years to develop. The time Jones gets ready to go he will be a FA unless we sign him to a 6 year deal.

It took Lelie 2 years to develop. He came out his 3rd year and played very well.

But yes people freaked when it took Lelie 2 years to develop

bloodsunday

04-07-2005, 12:51 PM

It took Lelie 2 years to develop. He came out his 3rd year and played very well.
Well, I'm still a little concerned. He needs to be more consistent. He does well on the broken play, but he needs to run his routes better within the offense and have more steady production. We don't run the Oakland or Minny run down the field and get open style offense. It's nice to have with a mobile QB, but our offense is based on precision and timing, which he needs to do better. I think this relates to his physicalness and ability to get off the line of scrimmage quickly. I don't think he jammed much in college considering the level of competition and style of the Hawaii offense.

labronco

04-07-2005, 06:39 PM

Well, I'm still a little concerned. He needs to be more consistent. He does well on the broken play, but he needs to run his routes better within the offense and have more steady production. We don't run the Oakland or Minny run down the field and get open style offense. It's nice to have with a mobile QB, but our offense is based on precision and timing, which he needs to do better. I think this relates to his physicalness and ability to get off the line of scrimmage quickly. I don't think he jammed much in college considering the level of competition and style of the Hawaii offense.

i am not satisfied with lelie, either. unless he can get more physical, he's not gonna be our #1. surprisingly, toothpick-like watts appears more physical than lelie. don't get me wrong. i think lelie is probably the best deepout player since nattiel (sp), but he's gotta be more consistent in the short/medium cross pattern.

long beach bronco

04-26-2005, 11:36 AM

Check out post #42 everybody. I had forseen it, lol.

delany

04-26-2005, 11:48 AM

How about this prediction I made 3 weeks ago...

I am interested to see how far the QB NOT selected #1 falls in this draft.

I think it could be a Big Ben type situation all over again.

Most people seem to think that Cleveland will select whichever QB SF doesn't...I think they have been burned with the QB position so much lately that they will forgo another crack at one .

I also can't see TB taking him over a RB or Williams.

Trying to find a spot for him is tough....Arizona at #8? Maybe...

KC at 15? They might be crucified for not going D.

Dallas with #20? Maybe

A good chance with GB at #24...

Who knows..but I think Smith will be the player that raises the most eyebrows on how far down he is drafted if Cleveland passes him over.