Mike Williams: 'I'm going to be an original'

[TheManeMan]

By Michael Bradley - SportingNews (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=mikewilliamsimgoingtobea&prov=tsn&type=lgns)



This is the time of year when we search for ways to describe NFL prospects. We wrack our mental highlight reels and try to define these football immigrants in terms all can understand, usually ending up with a Frankenstein's monster of a player, cobbled together with parts of others and hardly resembling the person we're trying to define.

Mike Williams has a solution to that: Don't do it. At least not with him. The wide receiver doesn't want to be told he's T.O. this, Randy that or something like Keyshawn. "I'm going to be an original," he says.

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Given the path Williams has taken to the NFL draft, it makes sense not to define him in terms of others. No one has been through what he has, not even Maurice Clarett, the other player who banged on the league's door last year, only to be told by a federal judge to come back later. Now Williams is back, convinced you haven't seen anything like him. He likely will be selected in the top 10 on April 23 -- War Room scouts predict the Vikings will take him with the seventh pick.

"When I watch football, I can't think of any person I play like," he says, without a trace of arrogance. "When I establish myself, I want to establish me, not be a clone of anybody else."

So, who is Mike Williams?

He's not Randy

When some scouts describe Williams, they begin with his speed -- or lack thereof -- relative to some other NFL receivers. They point to the 40-yard dashes he ran at the NFL Scouting Combine in February and his individual workout March 10, all four of which fell in the 4.54-4.64 range. Hardly slow, but not blinding, either.

"I don't think anybody would call him a game breaker," says one AFC college scouting director. Williams (6-4 1⁄2, 229) doesn't blow past defensive backs or turn 6-yard hitch passes into 50-yard gains, as Oakland's Randy Moss can.

It might be unwise to expect 1,400 yards and 12 to 15 touchdowns from Williams, at least on a regular basis, but he isn't going to leave the field early when his team is losing, and he won't make obscene gestures to the crowd, get into shouting matches with coaches and teammates or take plays off. Williams' decision to run at the Combine gained him big points with scouts, coaches and general managers, who wanted to see if he was in shape and sharp after a year out of football.

"If he had not run at the Combine, that would have pissed a lot of people off," Packers college scouting director John Dorsey says. "He had to show the guys, 'I am who I am.' He did that, and it was a good thing."

Williams didn't even bring a pair of running shoes with him to the Combine, so he had to find former Washington State safety Hamza Abdullah, with whom he had trained at Chip Smith's Competitive Edge in suburban Atlanta, and bum a pair from him (they have the same shoe size). Credit Bengals coach Marvin Lewis and receivers coach Hue Jackson for spurring Williams to run.

At the end of Williams' interview with Cincinnati, during which Williams informed the team he wasn't running at the Combine, Jackson told him, "You carry yourself well, and people think you're a competitor. Why not prove it?" That did it. "He called me out," Williams says.

Williams put up times of 4.57 and 4.64, neither of which reminded anyone of Bob Hayes but which completed the profile on a player who impressed teams with his character during interviews and has a great college resume (176 catches, 14.6-yard average, 30 TDs in two seasons at USC). "He's a quality kid and a quality prospect," says an AFC scouting director. "And it was good for him to run because it shows he will compete any time they throw the balls out there."

He's not Keyshawn

When some NFL scouts describe Williams, they invoke Keyshawn Johnson, the former USC standout now with Dallas. They reason that a big guy who doesn't possess great speed will be a possession receiver comfortable in the middle of the field and able to overpower smaller defensive backs in one-on-one situations.

"Mike never professed to be a guy who would run a 4.3," says an AFC personnel director. "Anyone who has seen him play knows that. He's fast enough, gets open and is strong."

Williams is slightly taller and about 15 pounds heavier than Johnson. He also is faster, and there is little doubt he'll be a better teammate. After Williams' bid for early entry into the NFL was denied a year ago, he tried to become eligible again for the Trojans by attending classes and paying back any money he had received from his agent. It gave him an opportunity to clear some things up with the USC coaching staff and his teammates.

"Some things were said and reported when I decided to enter the draft," Williams says. "By going back, I could get around the guys and say, 'I didn't say this or that.' They know me. We grew up together as young men. They knew what they read had to be twisted. But it's different when you think things are a certain way and when a person tells you it directly."

Williams was set to play with the Trojans, but the NCAA denied his request. "I don't think I got screwed," he says. "Yes, it was a good human interest piece, but in reality, what I did (signing with an agent) broke the rules."

Williams stayed at USC for part of the '04 season, but it didn't take him long to realize it was time to move on.

"Every time I read the paper, it said, 'The Trojans are doing well without Mike Williams,' " he says. "I didn't want the team's success to be under my little cloud."

He's not T.O. When USC squared off against Oklahoma for the national championship January 4, there were celebrities galore on the sidelines. But no Williams, who was in Atlanta watching the game at a fitness center. Williams had been hanging in the ATL since late October, sweating his way through a 16-week plan designed to have him at peak efficiency for the Combine and his personal workout. Not that anybody knew it. Once he left L.A., Williams laid low, training with Smith.

It was the anti-Terrell Owens approach to strength and conditioning training. Rather than calling attention to himself, as the Eagles' wideout has done unceasingly the past few seasons, Williams chose to labor quietly. And when he went to Miami to work with former NFL standout Cris Carter on route running and reading defenses, he did that stealthily, too.

Williams worked six days a week with Competitive Edge's staff -- running, lifting, stretching, swimming and catching passes. The solitary confinement gave Williams a chance to bond with Smith, who found that the best way to motivate Williams was to challenge him. So, Smith presented the performance levels Cardinals receiver Larry Fitzgerald had achieved the previous year and let his new pupil go after them.

"Money doesn't motivate him," Smith says. "He wants to be the best at his position."

In late December, other Smith clients moved in to prepare for their draft auditions. That allowed Williams to play football again, and he showed plenty during the workouts against live competition. One time, Williams ran a pattern up the left sideline, blanketed by a cornerback. The pass was thrown to the inside, but Williams reached over the defender with his right arm, tipped the ball up and caught it with his left hand without breaking stride.

"I saw that on a daily basis," Smith says. "It made me realize what a great receiver he is."

He is Mike Williams It has been 15 months since Williams has played in a game, so it's tempting for some to consider him a risk. "No I'm not!" Williams says emphatically. And he's right. He is a man with substantial physical talent and a rock-solid support system that has helped teach him how to carry himself with confidence and respect for others. He won't shy away from competition, either, as he proved at the Combine.

Williams has just about everything he needs. He never has shown up on the police blotter, nor did he throw temper tantrums during his year in limbo. Any time you wonder whether he can play receiver in the NFL, just throw in a tape of the '03 game against Oregon State and watch him make that one-handed catch in the end zone.

The man can play. Now, it's time for him to play. His way.

Michael Bradley is a free-lance writer and regular contributor to Sporting News.

[CBF1]

I want him bad... But I do not think there is anyway that will happen. Please Shanny, prove me wrong.

[atwater58]

great post- thanks

[epicSocialism4tw]

o-ver-ra-ted.

[TheManeMan]

o-ver-ra-ted.

Patience is a virtue, my friend...

[CBF1]

o-ver-ra-ted.

Based on his great college numbers? Him helping win the national championship?

Why do you think he is over rated?

[chrisp]

He's clearly NOT overrated, but I'm going to tell myself he is becuase there is NO CHANCE of his coming our way....

...and when they announce the pro bowl squads at the end of the year I will but my hands over my ears and go "la la la la la laaaaa!!"

[-Slap-]

He's great, but I would rather get VJackson or MJones several picks later and several dollars cheaper.

[Play2win]

I would rather have Mike Williams than any WR since Moss. And I wouldn't want Moss, cause he is such a fricken' LOOSSEERRR!!

People that have criticisms about Williams, I just have to wonder how many games they actually saw him play in (if any)

[Tombstone RJ]

I'd love for the Broncos to get M. Williams. He was the guy I wanted the Broncos to draft last year.... but, he's going off the board before the Broncos even get a sniff of him.

Same with Alex Smith.

Matt Jones is my new push for the Broncos. I'd love for the Broncos to draft him as a WR and give him a year of two to develop. I won't mind if the Broncos take Jones in the first... that is, trade down, and take him in the first....

[Bob's your Information Minister]

A shorter version of Harold Carmichael?

[Bob's your Information Minister]

A slower version of Terrell Owens!

[labronx]

A slower version of Terrell Owens!
Bob,
you're setting yourself up again ???

[Ballhawk]

One of the best WRs of all time would have love to have posted a 4.57...Steve Largent. He ran his routes better than any I have seen and was wide open constantly. Route runnning is more important than speed. WRs are fast CBS are fast and 4.45 to 4.6 will not create much seperation by itself. Mike Williams know how to run routes and catches everything. His height is a mismatch against 95% of the DBs out there.

All that said...Ill take Matt Jones :)

[labronco]

I would rather have Mike Williams than any WR since Moss. And I wouldn't want Moss, cause he is such a fricken' LOOSSEERRR!!

People that have criticisms about Williams, I just have to wonder how many games they actually saw him play in (if any)

I think Mike Williams can even be better than Moss. Having seen him in a few games he played at USC, I think he has more upside than any player that came out since Michael Vick. I don't know why people can't see this.

[Play2win]

I think Mike Williams can even be better than Moss. Having seen him in a few games he played at USC, I think he has more upside than any player that came out since Michael Vick. I don't know why people can't see this.
I do too! :)

Mike Williams is going change the position and how it is played.

[labronco]

how about this year's first, trevor price (with some cash back), and next year's first to move up to Minnesota's pick at #7? i don't know. i think he's gonna be top three pick. i should just give up. not good for my health.

[Play2win]

how about this year's first, trevor price (with some cash back), and next year's first to move up to Minnesota's pick at #7? i don't know. i think he's gonna be top three pick. i should just give up. not good for my health.
I would go for it, definitely!


Here's my deal:

No DAY 1 CB, unless it Rolle.
Don't trade Trevor unless it gets us Mike Williams.
Trade any of our picks away if we KNOW we will get Williams with it.

Thats basically how I feal about this draft. Besides that its BPO.
(as long as its NOT CB, LB or RB)

[watermock]

Unless some freak trade with Gruden happens, and I don't see how with Pryce's cap number and Tampa's cap problems....I'm hoping the Vikings can get him or Edwards. :woowoo: If not, they might have to settle for Rolle or Ronnie Brown or Johnson....oh the trouble....then they have to pick someone like James or Cody at 18...oh the misery in the great white north... :woowoo:

[labronco]

alright. i would give this year's first. next year's first and second for Mike Williams. any objections?

[Clockwork Orange]

alright. i would give this year's first. next year's first and second for Mike Williams. any objections?

I strongly object.

[Play2win]

alright. i would give this year's first. next year's first and second for Mike Williams. any objections?
I would be all for that.

Years from now, people would be saying, "Best Draft Day move the Broncos did since Elway" ;D

[Clockwork Orange]

I remember Dan Reeves making the comment that he'd trade his entire draft to move up and take Steve Emtman (long before Mike Ditka actually did just that for Ricky Williams).

No one is a sure thing until they prove it in the NFL.

Next years draft is shaping up to be deeper than this one. I'm very hesitant to move any future picks from what's looking like a strong draft.

[Play2win]

I remember Dan Reeves making the comment that he'd trade his entire draft to move up and take Steve Emtman (long before Mike Ditka actually did just that for Ricky Williams).

No one is a sure thing until they prove it in the NFL.

Next years draft is shaping up to be deeper than this one. I'm very hesitant to move any future picks from what's looking like a strong draft.
That is true, but I'm just a big Mike Williams fan. Nothing is a sure thing, except, of course, that I would love to see Mike Williams in the Orange and Blue! ;D

[atwater58]

If the 49ers' new brass had any sence they would draft Braylon Edwards. I say this because people might not realize how terrible this 9ers' team is going to be this season. What i'm saying is that they probably draft 1st next season and the top rated player will no doubt be Matt Leinart(they won't draft Leinart if they have Rodgers). This logic might not be that sound but i'm willing to bet that this years San Fran team is going to be that bad. - I think I hate this team so much because I drafted Barlow last year with the 11th pick in my fantasy draft.

[labronco]

That is true, but I'm just a big Mike Williams fan. Nothing is a sure thing, except, of course, that I would love to see Mike Williams in the Orange and Blue! ;D

There were many times I saw Mike Williams play at USC. You just look at him run past WR's, running in the middle, jumping over everyone looking like a man playing in a little league. He was, and any USC fans would agree (i am not), that he was a man amongs boys.

I realize there's zero chance to get him. The Broncos probably aren't thinking about him at all. As for those top five teams looking to pick other players over Mike Williams, I just feel sorry for them.

Coming back to reality, I would much rather go with DE than CB with our first. But with Trevor's changing stance, people here think that we now have depth at the position. I personally don't think we could say that because of everyone's injury baggage, but what do i know.

But if we are going to look at that position--as we always do, regardless of what we really need--remember Justin Miller. The guy has 4.44 speed and runs like it on the field. He is also arguably the best KR in college last year, which is exactly what we need. In fact, I think he has better chance to contribute than Antrell.

[Garcia Bronco]

I think this guy won't live up to your hype. He hasn't Played football in almost two years when he suits up for which ever team. He'll be raw and take time to develop.

[epicSocialism4tw]

I think this guy won't live up to your hype. He hasn't Played football in almost two years when he suits up for which ever team. He'll be raw and take time to develop.

I agree, Garcia. IMO that year away from play is going to stunt his growth.

That 'Mike Williams is Randy Moss' stuff is coming out of California, where their opinion is = to fact in their eyes.

He is a big guy with good hands, though. We should pick him up and turn him into the 2nd version of Shannon Sharpe.

[Mediator12]

I think this guy won't live up to your hype. He hasn't Played football in almost two years when he suits up for which ever team. He'll be raw and take time to develop.

That certainly could happen in the wrong situation. Say, maybe the Bears who have QB questions to answer. I think his contribution, just like any rookie, depends on the situation that he finds himself after he is drafted.

Mike Williams has talent that will help someone immensely, and most likely right away. How much is a matter of where he goes and how he fits the situation.

That being said, I still want the Broncos to get a DL in the first (Shaun Cody, Demarcus Ware) or trade down to acquire an early second and fourth which is seriously wishful thinking in this draft. Then use the Two seconds to address the lines on either side of the ball or to get potential players like Vincent Jackson or Matt Jones if they are available and at a value position. Finish the thirds with best guard available hopefully Evan Mathis or Chris Kemoteau and a CB kick returner like Antonio Perkins.

[bloodsunday]

I realize there's zero chance to get him. The Broncos probably aren't thinking about him at all.

Yeah, but would Mark Clayton be a bad consolation prize? I think he could be a good get if he lasts until #25. He lacks ideal size, but the guy is a football player.

[labronco]

Yeah, but would Mark Clayton be a bad consolation prize? I think he could be a good get if he lasts until #25. He lacks ideal size, but the guy is a football player.

unless we can go up to pick a guy like Mike Williams, we stay put and get a DL. we have all these washed up, injury riddled d-linemen now. we need to build a true "depth" and youth in there. if we get a CB in Miller who can cover and do kick returns, i won't do cartwheels but won't gag either. i think if we trade for lower picks, we'll miss out on 4-5 top d-linemen in this draft and the talent drop is obvious.

[Hulamau]

Mike Williams and Lelie would be an awesome tandem, with Smith (and hopefully Watts if he learns to catch the ball) filling out the lineup. With Putz developing and Alexander we would likely have the best overall WR corp in the league.

Plummer wouldent even have to be that accurate with a target like Williams running across the middle... ah well, dream on!

[Dr. Broncenstein]

i would trade my left testicle to see Matt Jones in predominantly orange...

[bloodsunday]

unless we can go up to pick a guy like Mike Williams, we stay put and get a DL. we have all these washed up, injury riddled d-linemen now. we need to build a true "depth" and youth in there. if we get a CB in Miller who can cover and do kick returns, i won't do cartwheels but won't gag either. i think if we trade for lower picks, we'll miss out on 4-5 top d-linemen in this draft and the talent drop is obvious.

I would do cart wheels if we landed Mark Clayton, he is a stud. One reason I am so hopeful about getting Trevor Pryce back is that it takes pressure off of our draft. Yes we need some DL, but we can take them in the middle rounds instead of forcing a pick. Our team is in desperate need of play makers and we should take the guy most likely to make an immediate impact with our #1, whether its d-line or not.

[bloodsunday]

Mike Williams and Lelie would be an awesome tandem, with Smith (and hopefully Watts if he learns to catch the ball) filling out the lineup.

Yeah, but how do we move up without using Trevor as bait? Do we offer up our 1st this season and next? I would love to have Williams, but a guy likely to go in the top 7 seems way out of our reach. If we move up 5 slots, we should be able to get Clayton.

[bloodsunday]

i would trade my left testicle to see Matt Jones in predominantly orange...

He worries me a bit. He seems like too much of a project for a first round pick. If we traded out of the first and could get him early in the second maybe. I know he has talent, but so did Tony Mandrich. The guy has to learn a new position, and a position that has a lot of wrinkles in our playbook.

[Dr. Broncenstein]

He worries me a bit. He seems like too much of a project for a first round pick. If we traded out of the first and could get him early in the second maybe. I know he has talent, but so did Tony Mandrich. The guy has to learn a new position, and a position that has a lot of wrinkles in our playbook.

All the guy needs is the ball in his hands... and he is not going to fall past Pittsburg in the first round.

[bloodsunday]

All the guy needs is the ball in his hands... and he is not going to fall past Pittsburg in the first round.

This may be true -- and I don't put it past Shanny to take a shot -- but it still seems like a pick with some risk. He is certainly a guy gaining some popularity, but I just don't think a project player with talent is the way to go.

[DarkHorse30]

Dolphins | Willing to Trade Down - from www.KFFL.com
Tue, 5 Apr 2005 07:44:40 -0700

Armando Salguero, of the Miami Herald, reports the Miami Dolphins have made it clear to other teams they are open to receiving offers for the No. 2 pick overall, which would allow them to trade down and acquire additional draft choices. :gossip:

I can't see Denver coming up with enough to move to #2, but a move way up looks plausible. Would Williams be the guy at #2, or do we go defense?

[labronco]

I would do cart wheels if we landed Mark Clayton, he is a stud. One reason I am so hopeful about getting Trevor Pryce back is that it takes pressure off of our draft. Yes we need some DL, but we can take them in the middle rounds instead of forcing a pick. Our team is in desperate need of play makers and we should take the guy most likely to make an immediate impact with our #1, whether its d-line or not.

i don't think we can force a pick at #25. with the players coming out this year, the strength is at top 4-5 DE's and that is not common. that is not to say any of them will last to where we pick, but if we get a chance, why not? with all the injuries we have on DE, he'll have chance to make an immediate impact on our DL.

i don't think WR's are as much of a need. Mark Clayton is an outstanding player, but trust me, Mike Williams is in a class of his own. He's just a special player and players like that don't come around often. People say he's a project. He'll be rusty, i have no doubt having a year off, but one should not call him a project. He's also young, but he was simply dominant even on a national championship team.

i don't wanna blow his horn when we have no chance of getting him, because once he wears someone else's joursey, i can't be his fan. that's just way it is with me.

[bloodsunday]

I can't see Denver coming up with enough to move to #2, but a move way up looks plausible. Would Williams be the guy at #2, or do we go defense?

More importantly, I can't see us coming up with the funds to pay for #2 overall.

[labronco]

Dolphins | Willing to Trade Down - from www.KFFL.com
Tue, 5 Apr 2005 07:44:40 -0700

Armando Salguero, of the Miami Herald, reports the Miami Dolphins have made it clear to other teams they are open to receiving offers for the No. 2 pick overall, which would allow them to trade down and acquire additional draft choices. :gossip:

I can't see Denver coming up with enough to move to #2, but a move way up looks plausible. Would Williams be the guy at #2, or do we go defense?

OMG, do it shanny. Again, let me remind you. The untouchables are: Champ, DJ, and Foster. Don't care if you have to use next year's one and two. If you get Mike Williams, i won't dog you anymore. ever.

[bloodsunday]

i don't think we can force a pick at #25. with the players coming out this year, the strength is at top 4-5 DE's and that is not common. that is not to say any of them will last to where we pick, but if we get a chance, why not? with all the injuries we have on DE, he'll have chance to make an immediate impact on our DL.

I am in agreement here. I am assuming all of the true DE will be gone, but if not, then we probably should get one. Although we can't assume that the Broncos' draft board will have them all rated highly. I want an impact player, I don't really care what position he plays.

[labronco]

I am in agreement here. I am assuming all of the true DE will be gone, but if not, then we probably should get one. Although we can't assume that the Broncos' draft board will have them all rated highly. I want an impact player, I don't really care what position he plays.

see, that's the thing with our team. when it comes to the draft, i simply can't predict who they are gonna pick. we never knew they were looking at Foster when he came out. we never knew they were looking at DJ last year. And Bell and Watts? Most of the draft reviews didn't even have them in top 100 rankings. I bet none of us mentioned their names on this great site before the draft.

sometimes, i wish shanny and his midgets look at our board for suggestions. that's why i waste my time here.

[Mediator12]

He worries me a bit. He seems like too much of a project for a first round pick. If we traded out of the first and could get him early in the second maybe. I know he has talent, but so did Tony Mandrich. The guy has to learn a new position, and a position that has a lot of wrinkles in our playbook.

One word about Mandarich comes to mind in todays terms: STEROIDS!

[Mediator12]

see, that's the thing with our team. when it comes to the draft, i simply can't predict who they are gonna pick. we never knew they were looking at Foster when he came out. we never knew they were looking at DJ last year. And Bell and Watts? Most of the draft reviews didn't even have them in top 100 rankings. I bet none of us mentioned their names on this great site before the draft.

sometimes, i wish shanny and his midgets look at our board for suggestions. that's why i waste my time here.

Well, Socal had DJ last year and I had Watts in the fourth or fifth, certainly not the second round though. Foster came out as a target the night before the draft by someone who I can not remember off the top of my head.

This year I'm sticking to Evan Mathis G Alabama in the third.

[labronco]

Well, Socal had DJ last year and I had Watts in the fourth or fifth, certainly not the second round though. Foster came out as a target the night before the draft by someone who I can not remember off the top of my head.

This year I'm sticking to Evan Mathis G Alabama in the third.

I like Evan Mathis in third. He cdan play some center too. About as high as Shanny will go for guard. Good pick at third.

[bloodsunday]

we never knew they were looking at Foster when he came out. we never knew they were looking at DJ last year. And Bell and Watts? Most of the draft reviews didn't even have them in top 100 rankings.

There were lots of people who that the Broncos were looking at DJ last year -- I saw several mock drafts with him going to Denver. Bell was also projected pretty high last year, about where Denver took him. It is true the Denver appears to have reached, badly, on Watts. He has talent, but he didn't contribute much last year.

The thing about Foster, and DJ to some degree, is that the Broncos got caught with their pants down in a failed trade. Denver thought they had traded the Foster pick to Baltimore, but New England made a better deal at the last minute. Denver was forced to make a snap judgement; I have heard it termed the "oh no pick". With DJ, they were trying to move up and get Clayton, but again failed to make the deal. DJ turned out to be a very good move though.

Your point is well received, Denver has a tendency to reach on their first rounders -- how about Deltha? Sometimes you just need football players, not guys with "potential".

[Mediator12]

I like Evan Mathis in third. He cdan play some center too. About as high as Shanny will go for guard. Good pick at third.

Actually, if I remember correctly Mathis started at RT for two years before moving inside to RG last year. His versatility along the OL would be very valuable.

I am still trying to gauge if Sewell and Clabo are anything more than good camp fodder though. I hope that one of them pans out for some depth and power. Both are Bigger than the current starters and I hope one of them can see some Goalline packages this year.

[bloodsunday]

I hope that one of them pans out for some depth and power. Both are Bigger than the current starters and I hope one of them can see some Goalline packages this year.

God yes! We need to improve our running inside the redzone. Next to rushing the passer, I consider that our second biggest offseason concern. Or maybe third after Jake's 20 INT's...

[labronco]

There were lots of people who that the Broncos were looking at DJ last year -- I saw several mock drafts with him going to Denver. Bell was also projected pretty high last year, about where Denver took him. It is true the Denver appears to have reached, badly, on Watts. He has talent, but he didn't contribute much last year.

The thing about Foster, and DJ to some degree, is that the Broncos got caught with their pants down in a failed trade. Denver thought they had traded the Foster pick to Baltimore, but New England made a better deal at the last minute. Denver was forced to make a snap judgement; I have heard it termed the "oh no pick". With DJ, they were trying to move up and get Clayton, but again failed to make the deal. DJ turned out to be a very good move though.

Your point is well received, Denver has a tendency to reach on their first rounders -- how about Deltha? Sometimes you just need football players, not guys with "potential".

yeah, i saw dj slotted to our spot in many reviews, and there were some fans here wanting him, including SoCal, but i believe the majority of the people were chanting for one of DE's and DT's last year. I for one was screaming for Will Smith, who turned out to be a great choice as well. but hey, i am not complaining with Mr. DJ.

and yeah, i noticed too, that we have tried to move up the previous few years for others. I don't remember who we wanted at Baltimore spot when we picked Foster, but i think we got lucked out with Foster. He will be a probowler in near future, barring injury. Clayton is a great player, too. but would you still want him instead of DJ?

i think the main point here is we do a pretty good job at evaluating talent at the first round level. ONeil's and Middlebrook's were just awful picks made by Shanny always craving for the "shutdown corner." but i think Champ took care of that.

[Mediator12]

yeah, i saw dj slotted to our spot in many reviews, and there were some fans here wanting him, including SoCal, but i believe the majority of the people were chanting for one of DE's and DT's last year. I for one was screaming for Will Smith, who turned out to be a great choice as well. but hey, i am not complaining with Mr. DJ.

and yeah, i noticed too, that we have tried to move up the previous few years for others. I don't remember who we wanted at Baltimore spot when we picked Foster, but i think we got lucked out with Foster. He will be a probowler in near future, barring injury. Clayton is a great player, too. but would you still want him instead of DJ?

i think the main point here is we do a pretty good job at evaluating talent at the first round level. ONeil's and Middlebrook's were just awful picks made by Shanny always craving for the "shutdown corner." but i think Champ took care of that.

You know what, Drafting any corner at this point would be for depth this year and a Possible #2 CB for next year if Lenny Breaks out in his contract year or becomes Injury prone. I am also warming to the fact that Antonio Perkins may have great Value in the third round as well so that he can return kicks and learn to play DB in the NFL this year. Now all we have to do is get some first and second round picks.

[bloodsunday]

I don't remember who we wanted at Baltimore spot when we picked Foster, but i think we got lucked out with Foster.
Actually we were trying to move down. Baltimore wanted to move up and get Kyle Boller and there was no one there we really liked, most think we could have gotten Foster later. Foster still has some work to do to make this pick legitimate.


i think the main point here is we do a pretty good job at evaluating talent at the first round level. ONeil's and Middlebrook's were just awful picks made by Shanny always craving for the "shutdown corner." but i think Champ took care of that.

Well, I think we do a relatively poor job in first day picks. It's not just O'Neal and Middlebrooks. The following were all picked in the first day as well: Marcus Nash, Terry Pierce, Paul Toviesi, Dorsett Davis, Chris Cole, Lennie Friedman, Travis McGriff, Detron Smith, Chris Watson, and Jeremy LeSueur. How about trading our 3rd round pick in 2003 for two 4th rounders (Nick Eason and Bryant McNeal) when we could have taken Chris Simms. By my count, the Broncos are well below 50/50 on their first day picks in the Shanahan era in terms of drafting players that have become a significant part of our team (that includes us losing players like Tory James, Reggie Hayword, and Kennoy Kennedy). Granted that's a bit subjective on my part, but I think we can agree it needs to be higher.

That is why the organization (Shanny) has the perception of being a poor in the draft -- because the high picks don't work out and those should be your instanst impact guys. The reality is that the percentage of players the Broncos draft that stay in the NFL (not necessarily with the Broncos) is right up there with the best teams. We just need to stop reaching in the early rounds and find a way to develop our draft picks into NFL starters.

[bendog]

I dont' think the stats will bear out that shanny's day one picks are all that bad compared to the league avg, and I really don't think (in fact I know) that Den doesn't have a rep for a bad drafting team. It's true, though, that the strong suit has been the latter rounds and FAs

I'll try to remember to bring the stats tomorrow.

[labronco]

Actually we were trying to move down. Baltimore wanted to move up and get Kyle Boller and there was no one there we really liked, most think we could have gotten Foster later. Foster still has some work to do to make this pick legitimate.



Well, I think we do a relatively poor job in first day picks.

first ROUND picks, not first DAY picks. i am glad we didn't get boller. he won't amount to much. as far as foster is concerned. he's a real deal. you watch.

[bloodsunday]

first ROUND picks, not first DAY picks. i am glad we didn't get boller. he won't amount to much. as far as foster is concerned. he's a real deal. you watch.

I was just commenting on our general draft tendencies as I see them. There is no science here. But when you compare our roster in recent years to the rosters of the more elite franchises, I would bet you'll find that we need to improve in our day 1 picks.

Foster is still young and could be a good player, I haven't written him off.

[bendog]

Bell, Foster, Q, Brandon, D.Davis, Hamilton Lelie, LeSuer, Luke, Miree, Mauck, Middlebrooks, Pierce, Pope, Putz, Sewell, Shoate, Van Pelt, Watts, DJ, Young.

5 starters from the last 4 drafts, five if you count Middlebrooks, and the no 3 wr. I got the stats at home, but Shanny has done a decent job of getting numbers of picks.

I'll bring the leage stats tomorrow. Den's above avg in draft picks making it.

[bloodsunday]

I dont' think the stats will bear out that shanny's day one picks are all that bad compared to the league avg,
What are you going to compare statistically? The number of players still in the league? I am talking a bit more subjectively in that these players still need to be productive members of our roster. So that removes otherwise good players like Tory James and Kennoy Kennedy. Still other players, like Terry Pierce, could still be players, but as of today look like a disappointment.

and I really don't think (in fact I know) that Den doesn't have a rep for a bad drafting team. It's true, though, that the strong suit has been the latter rounds and FAs
I think Denver has a rep for questionable personnel moves in general and in the at least portions of the draft. Len Pasquerelli wrote an article just the other day about us drafting d-linemen. Again, a rep is a bit subjective because you are talking about the perceptions of another party. You can rip Len if you want, but he represents a part of the national media. And that media propogates a perception about Denver.

[bloodsunday]

Bell, Foster, Q, Brandon, D.Davis, Hamilton Lelie, LeSuer, Luke, Miree, Mauck, Middlebrooks, Pierce, Pope, Putz, Sewell, Shoate, Van Pelt, Watts, DJ, Young.
But there are two elements to this -- position in the draft and staying on our roster. Let's see how many of the first day picks are still on our roster over Shanahan's career in Denver. I'll bet its under 50 percent, well under. That's only 10 years so its not a stretch to say every first round pick should be a starter in that time frame.

I am not saying Denver is poor necessarily, but I am saying they should get better, especially on day 1.

[bloodsunday]

Bell, Foster, Q, Brandon, D.Davis, Hamilton Lelie, LeSuer, Luke, Miree, Mauck, Middlebrooks, Pierce, Pope, Putz, Sewell, Shoate, Van Pelt, Watts, DJ, Young.
AS of today, which of these players would you consider an impact player? I would say DJ is the only one in the last 4 years. True, some have potential, but they have to make it to that next level.

[bendog]

I think you're just debating here. Generally, it takes a few years for a player to be "an impact" player - however you define it. So, Foster and Lelie and Hamilton and Bell fit that mold. Putz too. DJ was a find. But, if you want to consider "impact" players of the last 4 drafts or so, you prolly should count in Sonic and Champ.

Shanny's drafting is fine. Yeah he takes a reach in the first round, esp picking later in the round. But, it isn't the drafting that's been a negative. It's been IHOP and his bretheren. And, we've changed defensive schemes .... what 3 times in 5 years? We bring in Jelly, but then move to leaner guys. It's been incosistent.

[Play2win]

I just wonder how many out there have seen Mike Williams in real Action (during games!) for any substantial amount of time.

How many have actually watched an entire game that Mike Williams played in?

[labronco]

I just wonder how many out there have seen Mike Williams in real Action (during games!) for any substantial amount of time.

How many have actually watched an entire game that Mike Williams played in?

i watched three games total, one against ucla, one against washington, the other against oregon. got forced into watching these games cuz i got some friends who follow usc. i don't follow usc regularly. i didn't even know who he was the first game. but the guy pops out even from a nosebleed seat. he just looks faster, bigger, and moves away from defenders like they are flies. and he caught everything. i mean everything that was thown to him.

man, don't get me going with Mike Williams. we have no chance getting him.

[labronco]

AS of today, which of these players would you consider an impact player? I would say DJ is the only one in the last 4 years. True, some have potential, but they have to make it to that next level.

Impact? I consider DJ and Foster untouchable players on this team. Future franchise type players. I think shanny does pretty good with his first round picks as long as he doesn't reach for a cornerback or WR's. His second to fourth round picks usually are terrible (reserving opinion on last years) except Clinton.

[Garcia Bronco]

:)

[Kaylore]

:rofl:

[Nuggets4]

This thread reminds me why Shanahan never listens to the posters on this board.

[DrFate]

He was overrated coming out of USC. He's a poor man's Keyshawn Johnson. Plus he's a malcontent.

Pass

[Paladin]

Well, let's man up, people........

[Clockwork Orange]

I've got no room to rub anything in anyone's face, really. If Shanahan listened to me, the Broncos would probably be scheming to move up for Brady Quinn right now because Jay Cutler wouldn't be here. Haloti Ngata would be (which wouldn't be a bad thing at all), but not Cutler.

[Garcia Bronco]

These bumps aren't about rubbing anyone's nose in it...gosh...we're all blind men in the dark for the better part. We just have this massive database, and I don't understand why. so


Bump

[Clockwork Orange]

These bumps aren't about rubbing anyone's nose in it...gosh...we're all blind men in the dark for the better part. We just have this massive database, and I don't understand why. so


Bump

Tell that to the people who've been rubbing my nose in my initial dislike of the Cutler pick for a year now. ;D

[Garcia Bronco]

Tell that to the people who've been rubbing my nose in my initial dislike of the Cutler pick for a year now. ;D

I am high on him...but...he might not be the guy...but all signs point toward a great QB.

[Clockwork Orange]

I am high on him...but...he might not be the guy...but all signs point toward a great QB.

I called him the most overhyped player in the draft, that one's been bumped a few times now. :cuss:

Now I just hope he continues to make me look like the idiot my wife tells everyone I am. :yayaya:

[nickademus]

This stuff cracks me up
I had been reading the Mane for a while before I started posting and I love some of the over-reactions. They are on the board daily in the draft forum. I do think that Williams is a talent but he was never in a situation that suited him after he left USC. Some times it amazes me how GMs and Coaches tend to draft guys thinking that they can turn them into a different player and ignore what the guy brings to the table. I actually think this is why so many first round CBs, DTs, and WRs bust. if you look at the history Williams was never a burner yet he was asked to be one in Detroit. Some of the trade senerios were pretty funny though.

[Garcia Bronco]

I called him the most overhyped player in the draft, that one's been bumped a few times now. :cuss:

Now I just hope he continues to make me look like the idiot my wife tells everyone I am. :yayaya:

LOL...well...just tell her that anything she says sbout you is merely a reflection upon heer....that'll hold her for 1/2 hour.

[watermock]

I think you're just debating here. Generally, it takes a few years for a player to be "an impact" player - however you define it. So, Foster and Lelie and Hamilton and Bell fit that mold. Putz too. DJ was a find. But, if you want to consider "impact" players of the last 4 drafts or so, you prolly should count in Sonic and Champ.

Shanny's drafting is fine. Yeah he takes a reach in the first round, esp picking later in the round. But, it isn't the drafting that's been a negative. It's been IHOP and his bretheren. And, we've changed defensive schemes .... what 3 times in 5 years? We bring in Jelly, but then move to leaner guys. It's been incosistent.

I'm looking for Foster, Lelie, Tatum Bell and Putz to break out this year.

Actually, before 05-06, our drafts DID suck salty balls. RIP Chef, the kids miss you. And Cartman's mommy the crack ho.

Sorry Bendog, you got the arbitrary noserubbing.

mock: Darrent Williams?!! He's a god damn midget!! Three corners in a row, are they crazy? Now we needed another corner in Dre Bly. I guess they are right, you can never have enough, especially if one gets knocked off in a drive by. That still stings. BTW, I'm making fun of myself.

[Paladin]

I think the point is that some of us will never manage a Draft for any team except a fantasy team , and even then there are more losers than winners......

Easy to criticise or tout any pick or any draft.

[stoxman]

Yep...I hit on Stephen Jackson (over DJ), Ed Reed (over Lelie) and numerous others.

Missed on more than I'd care to mention. :-) The draft is a crazy thing!

Never did like BMW though--too slow.

[That One Guy]

It's amazing how much can change in a few years. I sure am glad those wanting to trade 2 firsts, a 2nd, and a player for Mike Williams didn't get their way.

Also, Foster was once an untouchable player when it came to trades...

[TheDave]

For what it's worth He's outperformed Rashan Woods... Still not sure what the hell i saw in that guy.

[-Slap-]

Brian Urlacher.

Ed Reed.

Tommie Harris.

Witnesses.







Patrick Willis.

[Garcia Bronco]

Brian Urlacher.

Ed Reed.

Tommie Harris.

Witnesses.







Patrick Willis.


You did...you did :notworthy

[Mr Chatterboodamn]

bump... jarvis is gone... let's go get mike and see what's up with him.

[400HZ]

Former first round pick!

[Mr Chatterboodamn]

Former first round pick!

did you take your medication today?

[400HZ]

did you take your medication today?

What? You think it's stupid to target players who suck, even though they were drafted high and have loads of potential just waiting to be tapped? ;)

[Crushaholic]

I guess llama was right...

[TexanBob]

Mike Williams isn't even an original bust of players named Mike Williams.

[-Slap-]

Yeah, the fatter one was drafted even higher by Buffalo.