Michael Myers included in deal

[jebures]

I guess we got DT Michael Myers in the deal as well

Updated: March 30, 2005, 12:23 AM ET
Browns send D-lineman to Denver for rusherBy Len Pasquarelli, ESPN.com


For the third time this month, the Denver Broncos have acquired a defensive lineman from the Cleveland Browns, this time landing veteran end Ebenezer Ekuban in exchange for running back Reuben Droughns, who is coming off a 1,000-yard season.

Ebenezer Ekuban
Defensive End
Cleveland Browns
Profile


2004 SEASON STATISTICS
Tot Ast Solo FF Sack Int
39 29 10 1 8 0


The Broncos also receive defensive tackle Michael Myers in the deal for Droughns.

The trade is contingent on the players passing physical exams with their new franchises. Ekuban arrived in Denver on Tuesday afternoon and Droughns is scheduled to travel to Cleveland on Wednesday.

[labronco]

Who's Michael Myers?

[Pendejo]

I think he played at Alabama.

[The Dude]

Who's Michael Myers?
http://www.horreur.net/dossiers/slashers/images/myers.jpg

OR

http://www.personal.psu.edu/users/t/j/tjw224/fat%20bastard.JPG

Either one might be good on the D-line

[wabbit]

Rather short, stout DT (6-2, 290) the Browns picked up from Dallas late in the 2003 season...a role player in the strictist sense

I'm not sure he will have a future here, but, then again, Denver does seem like the land of new beginnings these days

[DBroncos4life]

He reminds me of Mario Fatafehi. Not alot of talent but still he makes the team and does a solid job.

[CBF1]

Maybe we can sign Freddie Krugar and then we will have the new" Monsters of Mile High"

[watermock]

http://www.personal.psu.edu/users/t/j/tjw224/fat%20bastard.JPG

Fat Bastard Rules!

[minibronco]

There goes reuben droughns, our 1000 yard rusher.

Who will replace him at fullback? Does that leave Q at halfback?

Is this all part of our plan?

[Clockwork Orange]

There goes reuben droughns, our 1000 yard rusher.

Who will replace him at fullback? Does that leave Q at halfback?

Is this all part of our plan?

In order:

Tatum Bell would have been the starter even if Droughns were still here.

Kyle Johnson is the fullback.

Probably.

[Atlas]

Who's Michael Myers?

Both Myers and Ecuban played for the Cowboys a few years ago. Ecuban is a physical freak. The Cowboys first round draft pick he has been an under achiever since he came into the league but I think he had a decent year last year.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

And the hits just keep on coming! LOL

[DBroncos4life]

And the hits just keep on coming! LOL



hes no Kendall Gammon but what can you do.... ???

[Clockwork Orange]

And the hits just keep on coming! LOL

Interesting.

2004

Ryan Sims: 13 tackles, 2 sacks, 0 forced fumbles

Michael Myers: 21 tackles, 1 sack, 1 forced fumble

You were saying? :laugh:

[DBroncos4life]

Someone should change the thread title to.... See those eyes Holmes they might as well be yours.

[wabbit]

Master of deflection at his best...

Priest's got a chance at that rushing record facing the Browns defensive line twice next year. LOL


With Denver's LB's??

C'mon Bob...KC signed Bell and....??? Who??

Guess that master draft will fill those gaping holes, eh???

[Clockwork Orange]

Master of deflection at his best...

Priest's got a chance at that rushing record facing the Browns defensive line twice next year. LOL

Truth hurt again Meatpeeker? Those damn facts getting in your way again?

I just proved that the throw in the Broncos just picked up is as good as your best defensive tackle that was taken with the 6th overall pick in the draft. I'd be pissed too if I were you. rofl

[DBroncos4life]

Master of deflection at his best...

Priest's got a chance at that rushing record facing the Browns defensive line twice next year. LOL



I thought that as well tell it dawned on me Holmes only rushed for 92 yards against that same Browns D in 03.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Someone should change the thread title to.... See those eyes Holmes they might as well be yours.

That's "See that stare, Holmes? You stop right where that stare starts. etc etc"

I SHOULD start a thread titled "Oh Prieeest! Meet your new friends!" with a picture of your Cleveland imports. LOL

[Bob's your Information Minister]

I thought that as well tell it dawned on me Holmes only rushed for 92 yards against that same Browns D in 03.

On only 19 carries. He didn't even carry the ball one time in the game's last six minutes.


We raped them through the air as well, no pass rush.

[Clockwork Orange]

That's "See that stare, Holmes? You stop right where that stare starts. etc etc"

I SHOULD start a thread titled "Oh Prieeest! Meet your new friends!" with a picture of your Cleveland imports. LOL

It'd be much more inposing than your pics of Sammy Knight and Kendrell Bell.

Our Cleveland imports get to play on a defense with Al Wilson, DJ Williams, Champ Bailey & John Lynch. Who do your "saviors" get to line up with? Scott Fajita? The Crispies? :laugh:

Don't worry about us Bob. We had a top 5 defense in the NFL with a weak defensive line last year. If these guys give us anything we'll be even better.

Good luck with your own squad.....you'll need it.

[Taco John]

Rotation


http://library.thinkquest.org/26648/images/rotation.jpg

[Bob's your Information Minister]

It'd be much more inposing than your pics of Sammy Knight and Kendrell Bell.

Our Cleveland imports get to play on a defense with Al Wilson, DJ Williams, Champ Bailey & John Lynch. Who do your "saviors" get to line up with? Scott Fajita? The Crispies? :laugh:

Don't worry about us Bob. We had a top 5 defense in the NFL with a weak defensive line last year. If these guys give us anything we'll be even better.

Good luck with your own squad.....you'll need it.

You're just trading trash for trash on the defensive line. And you got rid of your best pass rusher.

[Clockwork Orange]

But you're right, if Myers is putting up numbers similar to Ryan Sims, he's a scrub.

[Clockwork Orange]

You're just trading trash for trash on the defensive line. And you got rid of your best pass rusher.

And we may very well have Trevor Pryce back next year. That's an immediate upgrade over Hayward.

Ekuban had 8 sacks last year. Looks like he can rush the passer a little bit.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

With Denver's LB's??

C'mon Bob...KC signed Bell and....??? Who??

Guess that master draft will fill those gaping holes, eh???

Denver's linebackers got raped for almost 300 yards rushing last year against the Chiefs, remember?

[Bob's your Information Minister]

And we may very well have Trevor Pryce back next year. That's an immediate upgrade over Hayward.

Ekuban had 8 sacks last year. Looks like he can rush the passer a little bit.

I don't think Pryce is going to be his old self.

Eric Hicks had 14 sacks one year.

[wabbit]

You're just trading trash for trash on the defensive line. And you got rid of your best pass rusher.

You're talking about the Rueben Droughns trade I assume.

We didn't trade anything or anyone for Warren & Brown.

The Broncos are trying to get better...Carl Peterson is trying to find a laundry that doesn't put too much starch in his shorts

Which plan works for you 'Bob

[Clockwork Orange]

I don't think Pryce is going to be his old self.

Eric Hicks had 14 sacks one year.

And Rod Smith has lost a step, old & slow. Excuse me if I don't put a whole lot of stock in your player evaluations these days.

I'm not looking for Ekuban to make the Pro Bowl, if he can give us 8 sacks I'll be content.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

You're talking about the Rueben Droughns trade I assume.

We didn't trade anything or anyone for Warren & Brown.

The Broncos are trying to get better...Carl Peterson is trying to find a laundry that doesn't put too much starch in his shorts

Which plan works for you 'Bob

I phrased my post poorly. You're just adding more garbage into the mix. None of these guys are any better than what you had last year, and in some cases they are worse.

Carl has done a good job this offseason for once. Not fantastic, but we've brought in two very good defenders and a third is on the way.

[DBroncos4life]

I don't think Pryce is going to be his old self.

Eric Hicks had 14 sacks one year.



that was great. Let me try.


I don' think Pryce is going to be his old self.

Michael Strahan had 22 sacks one year.

WTF was the point of that???

[Bob's your Information Minister]

And Rod Smith has lost a step, old & slow. Excuse me if I don't put a whole lot of stock in your player evaluations these days.

I'm not looking for Ekuban to make the Pro Bowl, if he can give us 8 sacks I'll be content.

I'd be shocked if he had two career years in a row. Normally he sucks.

Back injuries destroyed Haley's career.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

that was great. Let me try.


I don' think Pryce is going to be his old self.

Michael Strahan had 22 sacks one year.

WTF was the point of that???

Eric Hicks sucks. So does Ebenezer Ekuban.

[Clockwork Orange]

Carl has done a good job this offseason for once. Not fantastic, but we've brought in two very good defenders and a third is on the way.

Fans like you are the reason why Carl Peterson still has a job. The Chefs have never won a thing under his charge, yet you'll eat his **** and ask for seconds year after year after year.

He missed on Jeremiah Trotter, then botched the Samari Rolle deal, scrambled to get Kendrell Bell (who no one else wanted, the Giants were the only other team he visited and they were scared off by his physical) once the fans were on the verge of a revolt after the Rolle disappointment, missed on Dwight Smith, settled for Sammy Knight and then watched Edgerton Hartwell sign elsewhere. You call that a "good job?" Eye of the beholder, I suppose.

[wabbit]

... None of these guys are any better than what you had last year, and in some cases they are worse

Carl has done a good job this offseason for once. Not fantastic, but we've brought in two very good defenders and a third is on the way.

Warren is worse...than who??

Brown is worse...than who??

Ekuban is Reggie Haywards long lost twin...relatively the same stats

Myers is camp fodder

As for KC:

Bell is an injury concern to a lesser degree than Brown, but still a durability concern.

Sammy Knight was a good pick-up...I'm assuming he can also play Defensive Tackle & Linebacker...yeah, you're all set

[Clockwork Orange]

I'd be shocked if he had two career years in a row. Normally he sucks.

8 sacks is not a career year, it's just a solid contribution. That's all I want out of Ekuban, Brown and Warren. I don't expect them to set the world on fire, just to contribute.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Fans like you are the reason why Carl Peterson still has a job. The Chefs have never won a thing under his charge, yet you'll eat his **** and ask for seconds year after year after year.

He missed on Jeremiah Trotter, then botched the Samari Rolle deal, scrambled to get Kendrell Bell (who no one else wanted, the Giants were the only other team he visited and they were scared off by his physical) once the fans were on the verge of a revolt after the Rolle disappointment, missed on Dwight Smith, settled for Sammy Knight and then watched Edgerton Hartwell sign elsewhere. You call that a "good job?" Eye of the beholder, I suppose.

I don't eat Carl's ****. Outside of a few offseasons in his tenure he's sucked.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

8 sacks is not a career year, it's just a solid contribution. That's all I want out of Ekuban, Brown and Warren. I don't expect them to set the world on fire, just to contribute.

8 sacks is a career year for that guy. He sucks.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Warren is worse...than who??

Brown is worse...than who??

Ekuban is Reggie Haywards long lost twin...relatively the same stats

Myers is camp fodder

As for KC:

Bell is an injury concern to a lesser degree than Brown, but still a durability concern.

Sammy Knight was a good pick-up...I'm assuming he can also play Defensive Tackle & Linebacker...yeah, you're all set

In some cases, not all. Michael Myers is definitely inferior to what you had playing DT last year.

[Clockwork Orange]

Had he landed Rolle & Hartwell, I'd say he's done a good job this offseason. Instead he's settled for 2nd tier players.

You may land Surtain and that's a good pickup, but not so much when you consider that you could have had Rolle and kept your 2nd round pick (which is what it will cost you). I still think Ty Law should be your target, as when he recovers he's a top 3 corner and even if he's lost a step he could still make a very good safety.

The Broncos offseason hasn't been anything special by any means. The D-line was the concern and it's being addressed as well as can be expected in a market devoid of premier free agent D-linemen. The Broncos are in a position that they either had to stand pat or take some chances on guys with upside but other concerns (injuries, inconsistancy).

That still doesn't explain the Ian Gold signing, but we're all still trying to figure that one out. :moody:

[wabbit]

In some cases, not all. Michael Myers is definitely inferior to what you had playing DT last year.

What we 'had' at DT last year is still here 'Bob; Fatafehi, Ellis, Johnson hasn't left as yet, Coleman is still listed on the roster...Pope is an adequate rotation DT

I ask again...how did we get worse in light of these moves for Warren, Brown & Ekuban??

[Taco John]

In some cases, not all. Michael Myers is definitely inferior to what you had playing DT last year.



It's great to know that you watch so many Browns game.

[wabbit]

tick-tock-tick-tock

[Taco John]

I ask again...how did we get worse in light of these moves for Warren, Brown & Ekuban??


We didn't. We took guys who had no upside, and replaced them with guys who still do. And best of all, we've got them in a rotation. AND we added them for close to nothing.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

It's great to know that you watch so many Browns game.

I watched alot of Cowboys games. That's how I've formed my opinion of Ekuban, as well.

I'd take Ellis Johnson and Luther Ellis over Myers.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

We didn't. We took guys who had no upside, and replaced them with guys who still do. And best of all, we've got them in a rotation. AND we added them for close to nothing.

Courtney Brown has an upside? Yeah, and Vonnie Holliday did too, I guess that's why the Dolphins signed him.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

I ask again...how did we get worse in light of these moves for Warren, Brown & Ekuban??

Oh, you didn't. But remember last offseason when the Chiefs managed to "not get worse?"

[Clockwork Orange]

I watched alot of Cowboys games. That's how I've formed my opinion of Ekuban, as well.

I'd take Ellis Johnson and Luther Ellis over Myers.

That's interesting, seeing as Ekuban just had the best season of his career and it wasn't in Dallas. Yet somehow he sucks? Mmmkay.

I'd like Ellis Johnson back, but Luther Ellis, meh.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

That's interesting, seeing as Ekuban just had the best season of his career and it wasn't in Dallas. Yet somehow he sucks? Mmmkay.

I'd like Ellis Johnson back, but Luther Ellis, meh.

Like I said, Eric Hicks once had a career year with 14 sacks. He sucks.

Ekuban must REALLY suck if 8 sacks is a career year for him.

[Clockwork Orange]

Like I said, Eric Hicks once had a career year with 14 sacks. He sucks.

Ekuban must REALLY suck if 8 sacks is a career year for him.

Perhaps, but due to the fact that his best season was last year, it's not unreasonable to believe that he has a chance to duplicate that kind of production. If he can do that, I'm fine with him.

[Taco John]

Courtney Brown has an upside? Yeah, and Vonnie Holliday did too, I guess that's why the Dolphins signed him.


I, for the life of me, don't understand what the failure of a player in one of the worst defenses in the game could possibly have anything to do with Courtney Brown. We get it. The players in your defense suck. Now he's playing with the Dolphins. So what does his failure have anything to do with Courtney Brown?

[SoCalBronco]

Courtney Brown has an upside? Yeah, and Vonnie Holliday did too, I guess that's why the Dolphins signed him.

ok Bob, let me get this straight...if Miami wants him, than he cant be good. Surely, the player must be worse if the Dolphins let him go...i.e. Sammy Knight.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

I, for the life of me, don't understand what the failure of a player in one of the worst defenses in the game could possibly have anything to do with Courtney Brown. We get it. The players in your defense suck. Now he's playing with the Dolphins. So what does his failure have anything to do with Courtney Brown?

Courtney Brown and Vonnie Holliday are the same kind of player.

Remember all those posts where you went off on your Green = Griese tangent? Same thing.

Courtney Brown has never done anything in the NFL but get hurt and suck. Suddenly he comes to Denver and that's going to change?

[Clockwork Orange]

Remember all those posts where you went off on your Green = Griese tangent? Same thing.

So you admit that TrINT = Griese. Nice. :thumbsup:

[Bob's your Information Minister]

ok Bob, let me get this straight...if Miami wants him, than he cant be good. Surely, the player must be worse if the Dolphins let him go...i.e. Sammy Knight.

There's a key difference here. Sammy Knight is the second leading interceptor in the NFL among current players.

Holliday and Brown are tied for "most injured," or something.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

So you admit that TrINT = Griese. Nice. :thumbsup:

Actually, after watching Griese play very well for the Bucs this past year, yes I can. And as I said before...that's not a bad thing.

[SoCalBronco]

There's a key difference here. Sammy Knight is the second leading interceptor in the NFL among current players.

Holliday and Brown are tied for "most injured," or something.

Bob, how does that make a difference? I can quote you any number of players who have played a long time in the league and during the course of their career they have amassed great stats. This is common whenever a player is a solid starter for a long time. It isnt hard for me to find a player who is on the downside, who has played a long time and racked up alot of stats. What does that have to do with how he is likely to play in the upcoming season?

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Bob, how does that make a difference? I can quote you any number of players who have played a long time in the league and during the course of their career they have amassed great stats. This is common whenever a player is a solid starter for a long time. It isnt hard for me to find a player who is on the downside, who has played a long time and racked up alot of stats. What does that have to do with how he is likely to play in the upcoming season?

Except that Knight's not on the downside. He's never had a serious injury and he's one of the most durable players in the league. He's only 29 freakin' years old.

Look, if you can't tell the difference between a good player like Knight and trash like Vonnie Holliday....perhaps you should stop debating.

[Fundamentals]

Myers was actually one of the more pleasant surprises on the Browns. When Warren and Roye were struggling, the back-up duo of Myers and Alvin McKinley were quite the nice additions in the rotation. Actually, of the four DLs you have that were Browns, Myers may be the biggest loss for the Browns. He was good depth and a solid player.

[SoCalBronco]

Except that Knight's not on the downside. He's never had a serious injury and he's one of the most durable players in the league. He's only 29 freakin' years old.

Look, if you can't tell the difference between a good player like Knight and trash like Vonnie Holliday....perhaps you should stop debating.

when did i compare the two. Im far more interested in Holliday Powell than Vonnie Holliday. I never even mentioned Vonnie. I am saying i like the Brown deal because there is very little financial risk. If he duds, he duds, we invested squat, we got squat. Its a relative wash at worst. I do think there is upside there if he can stay healthy. I like the risk/reward ratio. I didnt say he was going to be a pro bowler, i didnt say he was going to rape your line, i dont know where your getting this from. Knight was an okay but not great signing. I dont think his cover skills are there anymore. He could be and probably will be better than what you have, although that isnt saying alot. We both have done mediocre to poor on the whole this offseason to this point.

[wabbit]

Myers was actually one of the more pleasant surprises on the Browns. When Warren and Roye were struggling, the back-up duo of Myers and Alvin McKinley were quite the nice additions in the rotation. Actually, of the four DLs you have that were Browns, Myers may be the biggest loss for the Browns. He was good depth and a solid player.

I'm starting to realize that. I spoke out of turn when I labeled Myers as camp fodder...I wasn't aware of his growth this last season in Cleveland.

Once again, might be a nice rotation guy

I noticed more than a few Browns fans turned a little sour on the trade when they found out Myers was a freebie

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Myers was actually one of the more pleasant surprises on the Browns. When Warren and Roye were struggling, the back-up duo of Myers and Alvin McKinley were quite the nice additions in the rotation. Actually, of the four DLs you have that were Browns, Myers may be the biggest loss for the Browns. He was good depth and a solid player.

I would LOVE to hear why you think so. The Browns gave up more rushing yards than anyone in the NFL, more rushing touchdowns, and were ranked 27th in sacks.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

We both have done mediocre to poor on the whole this offseason to this point.

We have upgraded. You have not (barring an act of God).

[Clockwork Orange]

I would LOVE to hear why you think so. The Browns gave up more rushing yards than anyone in the NFL, more rushing touchdowns, and were ranked 27th in sacks.

He's a Browns fan, he actually watches the games.

[bpc]

The strength of Denver's defense is its LB's. These signings don't change that. They are just contributors with the potential to do better. We had the 4th ranked defense last year. IMO, we are deeper now then we were last season as well. I think we are adding veteran spare parts that can contribute 7,8, or 9 sacks. I'm ok with that.

[Clockwork Orange]

We have upgraded. You have not (barring an act of God).

We were already much better than you on defense and will continue to be.

And we still have the draft & June 1st cuts to look forward to.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

He's a Browns fan, he actually watches the games.

I guess he's delusional then. How can anyone on a defensive line that sucked as much as Cleveland's be considered "solid" or "nice."

[wabbit]

I phrased my post poorly. You're just adding more garbage into the mix. None of these guys are any better than what you had last year, and in some cases they are worse.
Carl has done a good job this offseason for once. Not fantastic, but we've brought in two very good defenders and a third is on the way.


See, now, 'Bob...this was the source of my question

Where, exactly, did we get worse if we essentially have everyone back from a top 5 defense and ADD Warren, Brown, Ekuban & Myers.

I don't see subtraction through addition...maybe you do,,,explain

[Bob's your Information Minister]

We were already much better than you on defense and will continue to be.

And we still have the draft & June 1st cuts to look forward to.

45-17

[Clockwork Orange]

45-17

Talk about low standards. Shows what a bottom feeding team the Chefs really are when your one shining moment was beating the Broncos.

Enjoy another 7-9 season, but if you split with the Broncos I guess that makes it all OK.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

See, now, 'Bob...this was the source of my question

Where, exactly, did we get worse if we essentially have everyone back from a top 5 defense and ADD Warren, Brown, Ekuban & Myers.

I don't see subtraction through addition...maybe you do,,,explain

Isn't the goal to get better on the defensive line? This forum has been raging off the hook about pathetic D-line play since Manning's ball hand cooled off.

The Chiefs managed to "not get worse" last offseason. The results were less than inspiring.

[Clockwork Orange]

I guess he's delusional then. How can anyone on a defensive line that sucked as much as Cleveland's be considered "solid" or "nice."

I guess I'll say the same about Jared Allen then. Since he was on a defense that was 31st overall in the NFL, he must suck pretty hard too.

I guess you can't disagree unless you're being "delusional."

[SoCalBronco]

We have upgraded. You have not (barring an act of God).

Since both Brown and Bell are significant injury concerns lets take them both out of the equation okay. I know you have argued that the difference between them is before their injuries Bell was something of value and Brown was crap but its undisputed that both face MAJOR injury questions so its irrelevant what you characterize what their past ability was. In fact, many Cleveland fans admit that he was a force when he was on the field. As between Chiefs fan and Browns fan, Browns fan is in a better position to know and there is no reason to think they would be biased towards Courtney because he is now gone. So what have you done? Your about to lose one starting WR, and he actually had a decent year last year esp in the Ravens game. The Chiefs WRs are generally agreed to be below average as a unit. Willie Roaf is getting older as is Will Shields. As is TrINT. As is Priest. I dont see how you have moved forward at all on offense. Defensive Line you have accomplished SQUAT. As noted earlier we have taken Bell out of the equation. I grant you that Knight is an upgrade at safety over Woods. On the whole i think you have either gotten slightly worse or stayed in the same position. For Denver, i will take Brown out of the equation. On the offensive line, we lost Dan Neil and there is a dropoff between him and Cooper. Bell, Lelie, your boy Watts all are young and its fair to assume they will improve. Why didnt i say the same thing about the chiefs? Because their skill position players on offense are ALL old, assuming Priest starts ahead of LJ which he will. So as between the two teams i think Denver may be slightly ahead on offense SO FAR AS improvement over the offseason goes mostly because of the extra experience key young personnel will have. But to be fair, ill call it a wash. On defense, Gold is a slight upgrade over Spragan. Warren, even when he is unmotivated is a big upgrade over Pope and Fetafehi. Ekuban, statistically is only slightly below Hayward. Walls is better than Herndon, although the loss of Herndon hurts depth wise. Ferguson is a better pass defender than Kennedy although Kennedy is a better run defender and probably better overall. So i think we got a little better on the DLine and at LB and lost a little bit in the secondary. Wash. Pretty much the same for the Chiefs. So you cant sit there and say oh you did nothing but we improved. Thats a line of crap and you know it.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

I guess I'll say the same about Jared Allen then. Since he was on a defense that was 31st overall in the NFL, he must suck pretty hard too.

I guess you can't disagree unless you're being "delusional."

You have missed the mark completely. Jared Allen was a rookie who got 9 sacks in 10 starts. His defense was ranked 12th against the run and 8th in sacks. The problem with the defense was pass coverage.

Clearly the problem with Cleveland was the defensive line. The problem in Kansas City was the back seven.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

I dont see how you have moved forward at all on offense.

LOL

We don't HAVE to move forward on offense, although we will undoubtedly add a WR or something. Our offense has been one of the league's finest for 3 years running in a row now. It requires little offseason maintenance. For two years in a row now, opposing fans have cried "you're getting older on offense! you won't be as good!" Then we all sit back and watch as the Chiefs destroy opposing defenses.

Defensively, we have upgraded. I'm not going to eliminate Bell because saying he'll get hurt is like giving up before the game starts. Knight is an obvious upgrade. Surtain is in the mail.

Where have the Broncos upgraded? Where? Is Ekuban an upgrade over the now-departed Hayward? No. Is Brown an upgrade over Pryce? Certainly not. Is Gerard Warren better than any of your defensive tackles? I don't think so. Neither is Michael Myers.

[wabbit]

Isn't the goal to get better on the defensive line? This forum has been raging off the hook about pathetic D-line play since Manning's ball hand cooled off.

The Chiefs managed to "not get worse" last offseason. The results were less than inspiring.


So, you're saying Denver got 'worse' by virtue of the fact that Cleveland wasn't any good and since these gentlemen manned the defensive line, thus Denver will be worse because of their presence

This, despite the fact that the players who fielded a top 5 defense are still on the roster

Is this your thrust 'Bob?

Can you possibly comprehend how absolutely stupid & ignorant that sounds??

[Clockwork Orange]

Clearly the problem with Cleveland was the defensive line. The problem in Kansas City was the back seven.

Really? How many Pro Bowlers did Cleveland have amongst their linebackers? Corners? Safeties?

Cleveland's D-line wasn't anything special, but it's not like the rest of the squad was anything to write home about either. They've got superior talent in the back seven to support them now.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

So, you're saying Denver got 'worse' by virtue of the fact that Cleveland wasn't any good and since these gentlemen manned the defensive line, thus Denver will be worse because of their presence

This, despite the fact that the players who fielded a top 5 defense are still on the roster

Is this your thrust 'Bob?

Can you possibly comprehend how absolutely stupid & ignorant that sounds??

You lost Hayward. You've added garbage to your garbage and lost the garbage man.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Really? How many Pro Bowlers did Cleveland have amongst their linebackers? Corners? Safeties?

Cleveland's D-line wasn't anything special, but it's not like the rest of the squad was anything to write home about either. They've got superior talent in the back seven to support them now.

Fool! Everyone knows it all starts up front.

Cleveland had some good players in it's back 7. Andra Davis, Orlando Huff, Robert Griffith, Anthony Henry.

Good defensive lines don't end up ranked last in the NFL against the run.

[Clockwork Orange]

We don't HAVE to move forward on offense, although we will undoubtedly add a WR or something. Our offense has been one of the league's finest for 3 years running in a row now. It requires little offseason maintenance. For two years in a row now, opposing fans have cried "you're getting older on offense! you won't be as good!" Then we all sit back and watch as the Chiefs destroy opposing defenses.
And all that firepower has netted you what?

Defensively, we have upgraded. I'm not going to eliminate Bell because saying he'll get hurt is like giving up before the game starts. Knight is an obvious upgrade. Surtain is in the mail.
Yet you haven't added one difference maker. Your persistance is admirable, but until Surtain is actually acquired, I'll remian a skeptic......especially with your track record of calling these things.

Where have the Broncos upgraded? Where? Is Ekuban an upgrade over the now-departed Hayward? No. Is Brown an upgrade over Pryce? Certainly not. Is Gerard Warren better than any of your defensive tackles? I don't think so. Neither is Michael Myers.
Pryce isn't gone. Ekuban had 8 sacks last year, which is more than any other Bronco other than Hayward. Warren is in a contract year and the only thing holding Brown back is his health. No guarantees there, but a lot more promise than we had last year.

And as wabbit pointed out, the Broncos already had a top 5 defense in the NFL. An overhaul wasn't a necessity in Denver as it is in KC.

[Clockwork Orange]

Fool! Everyone knows it all starts up front.

Cleveland had some good players in it's back 7. Andra Davis, Orlando Huff, Robert Griffith, Anthony Henry.

Good defensive lines don't end up ranked last in the NFL against the run.

Fool? We're not playing D & D here Bob, save that for your buddies from the Knights of the Old Republic fan club.

It starts up front? Really? Then explain how the Broncos had a top 5 defense with a D-line that many (yourself included) have said was no good last year?

[wabbit]

You lost Hayward. You've added garbage to your garbage and lost the garbage man.

That's semantical rubbish 'Bob

Answer the question 'Bob...did we get worse by adding these players in your opinion??

So, in your opinion, the loss of Reggie Hayward completely unhinged a top 5 defense??

Can't you see how dumb that sounds 'Bob

[Kaylore]

That's semantical rubbish 'Bob

Answer the question 'Bob...did we get worse by adding these players in your opinion??

So, in your opinion, the loss of Reggie Hayward completely unhinged a top 5 defense??

Can't you see how dumb that sounds 'Bob
If he could, he wouldn't say it, don't you see? It's Bob's your dumb ass. Logic and reason have no home in his excuse for grey matter. His prediction to actuality ratio is enough to disregard all his crap.

[Atlas]

Warren is worse...than who??

Brown is worse...than who??

Ekuban is Reggie Haywards long lost twin...relatively the same stats

Myers is camp fodder



I think Myers is better than Fatefehi. We'll see who sticks on this roster the competition is going to be fierce.

[Ray Finkle]

I think Myers is better than Fatefehi. We'll see who sticks on this roster the competition is going to be fierce.


Hopefully they keep both.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

That's semantical rubbish 'Bob

Answer the question 'Bob...did we get worse by adding these players in your opinion??

So, in your opinion, the loss of Reggie Hayward completely unhinged a top 5 defense??

Can't you see how dumb that sounds 'Bob

You've added nothing and lost something. Yes, you will be worse in some way. Your best current pass rusher is Trevor Haley.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

If he could, he wouldn't say it, don't you see? It's Bob's your dumb ass. Logic and reason have no home in his excuse for grey matter. His prediction to actuality ratio is enough to disregard all his crap.

My reasoning is completely logical.

X > Y

Donks had a little X and a lot of Y last year

Donks lose X, add some more Y

Maybe Shanahan failed algebra.

[Fundamentals]

To clarify something here, Orlando Huff was not a Brown. Last year our starting defense consisted of your DL+ Roye and Lang. The LBs were horrible. Andra Davis was solid until he got injured, with Barry Gardner finishing the year at MLB. Warrick Holdman and Chaun Thompson started at the OLBs, Holdman smart but losing his speed, Thompson with speed but next to no intelligence. Henry and McCutcheon started at CB, each battled injuries with Griffith and Earl Little at FS. Anybody who says that is a solid supporting cast should simply watch the tapes of last year.

Our DL really was not the problem as much as other areas. The reason that our run defense was so bad was that Warren would give up on plays and teams would run at our ends (Lang and Ekuban/parade of others), who would not maintain their lanes in trying to get to the QB. Once they got through the DL, it was anybody's game.

As for Myers, there were more than a few Browns fans calling for him and Alvin McKinley to start. He is not a superstar, and I never claimed he was. What he did was know his job and play within himself. He didn't try to get too much from a single play and outside Roye, he was probably the best run defender on the team. He is a solid rotation guy in a 4-3, but he is too small for DT in a 3-4. He isn't going to be a star, but he could be a player that contributes in his role.

The rumor here in Cleveland is that Myers was included so there would not have to be draft pick insurance on Ekuban. Is that what is being reported in Denver as well, or are you hearing something else?

[bronco militia]

To clarify something here, Orlando Huff was not a Brown. Last year our starting defense consisted of your DL+ Roye and Lang. The LBs were horrible. Andra Davis was solid until he got injured, with Barry Gardner finishing the year at MLB. Warrick Holdman and Chaun Thompson started at the OLBs, Holdman smart but losing his speed, Thompson with speed but next to no intelligence. Henry and McCutcheon started at CB, each battled injuries with Griffith and Earl Little at FS. Anybody who says that is a solid supporting cast should simply watch the tapes of last year.

Our DL really was not the problem as much as other areas. The reason that our run defense was so bad was that Warren would give up on plays and teams would run at our ends (Lang and Ekuban/parade of others), who would not maintain their lanes in trying to get to the QB. Once they got through the DL, it was anybody's game.

As for Myers, there were more than a few Browns fans calling for him and Alvin McKinley to start. He is not a superstar, and I never claimed he was. What he did was know his job and play within himself. He didn't try to get too much from a single play and outside Roye, he was probably the best run defender on the team. He is a solid rotation guy in a 4-3, but he is too small for DT in a 3-4. He isn't going to be a star, but he could be a player that contributes in his role.

The rumor here in Cleveland is that Myers was included so there would not have to be draft pick insurance on Ekuban. Is that what is being reported in Denver as well, or are you hearing something else?

nice post and welcome to the OM...


is there any truth to the reports of the Browns defense playing better when Butch Davis left the team?

[Ray Finkle]

My reasoning is completely logical.

X > Y

Donks had a little X and a lot of Y last year

Donks lose X, add some more Y

Maybe Shanahan failed algebra.


I feel really bad for you Bob. Either you spend all day on the Chiefs and Broncos boards and have no life OR you have annoyed every poster on the Chiefs board and therefore have to troll here....

either way, you are pathetic....

[Fundamentals]

nice post and welcome to the OM...


is there any truth to the reports of the Browns defense playing better when Butch Davis left the team?

Thank you for the welcome.

The defense improved a LITTLE when Butch left. They pulled the reigns off and blitzed a little bit more. It was still a bad defense, but their was some small improvement. Butch didn't like taking risks. He'd blitz MAYBE five times a game, his idea was to clog with the DTs and get whatever rush you could get from the DEs and let everything else play out. If we had a good secondary, perhaps that would have worked, but we didn't and it failed miserably. In the playoffs, we were up by 17 on Pittsburgh and Butch goes to the D-Coordinator at the time (Foge Fazio) and told him to call off the blitz and go to a base-prevent with over 10 minutes left in the game. When that plan backfired, he fired Fazio. It was truly a mess. For a defensive "genius" he did not live up to the title.

[DBroncos4life]

Isn't the goal to get better on the defensive line? This forum has been raging off the hook about pathetic D-line play since Manning's ball hand cooled off.

The Chiefs managed to "not get worse" last offseason. The results were less than inspiring.

Some reason I bet you said the samething the year you added Barber and Holliday.

[bendog]

Is Meyers a one gap or two gap guy? He doesn't seem very big.

(trying to cut through Bobs pile of horse crap)

[Ray Finkle]

Thank you for the welcome.

The defense improved a LITTLE when Butch left. They pulled the reigns off and blitzed a little bit more. It was still a bad defense, but their was some small improvement. Butch didn't like taking risks. He'd blitz MAYBE five times a game, his idea was to clog with the DTs and get whatever rush you could get from the DEs and let everything else play out. If we had a good secondary, perhaps that would have worked, but we didn't and it failed miserably. In the playoffs, we were up by 17 on Pittsburgh and Butch goes to the D-Coordinator at the time (Foge Fazio) and told him to call off the blitz and go to a base-prevent with over 10 minutes left in the game. When that plan backfired, he fired Fazio. It was truly a mess. For a defensive "genius" he did not live up to the title.


Thanks and welcome. Butch Davis was a moron...

[Fundamentals]

Myers was more of a one-gap guy in the Browns' rotation. He played beside Alvin McKinley who is a quicker player. However, when he came to the Browns from the Cowboys, Dave Campo said that Myers could be a two-gap guy as well.

I was actually a Butch Davis fan up until last year when his failures came to light in the media. I still think he is a decent coach, but a HORRIBLE GM.

[DBroncos4life]

Myers was more of a one-gap guy in the Browns' rotation. He played beside Alvin McKinley who is a quicker player. However, when he came to the Browns from the Cowboys, Dave Campo said that Myers could be a two-gap guy as well.

I was actually a Butch Davis fan up until last year when his failures came to light in the media. I still think he is a decent coach, but a HORRIBLE GM.



He sounds like a good "platoon" guy to have. One can only hope that Luther stays healthy. Pope and Davis need to show more for me to think they are worth anything. Mario is pretty much the same type of player that Mike is in my mind. If things go right though we now have players to rotate in and out to keep everyone fresh.

[bendog]

hmmm, well, am I correct in thinking that Warren's attitude improves when he's allowed to play the one gap (or under) with some other mook having to do to do the two gap (over) duty? IF so, we'd have Fallawful and Pope for over and Warren and Myers for under..... ok. I think Luther Ellis is finished. Ellis Johnson could rotate in, maybe even be the under guy with Warren and Myers rotate. It could work, maybe.

[Crushaholic]

I feel really bad for you Bob. Either you spend all day on the Chiefs and Broncos boards and have no life OR you have annoyed every poster on the Chiefs board and therefore have to troll here....

either way, you are pathetic....

You should lurk there sometime. The Planeteers don't like him, either... rofl

This is a good sign. Bob has predicted doom and gloom for our line. That means our line is going to dominate EVERYONE and put up mammoth stats... :Broncos:

[Fundamentals]

Most of Warren's success has come at one-gap, but Campo did not like playing him that way. At the end of his rookie season he was a beast in that situation, but after that he never really showed it again. As down as I am on Warren, I think he can turn it around in a new situation with you guys. He could never handle the pressure on him here in Cleveland and didn't help himself with some idiotic comments and actions. He was arrested for marijuana possession, coming from a party at Plaxico Burress' house, a sin in Cleveland for a Brown to be associated with a Steeler. He then made the stupid comments about Roethlisburger this year, and just buried himself further and further. On the plus side, a Carmen Policy quote after his arrest (I am not making this up), "The (Pittsburgh) officers said he was one of the nicest people they've ever arrested."

[UltimateHoboW/Shotgun]

Interesting.

2004

Ryan Sims: 13 tackles, 2 sacks, 0 forced fumbles

Michael Myers: 21 tackles, 1 sack, 1 forced fumble

You were saying? :laugh:


Smack Rep. right there.

[biggpoppa87]

we shall see.

[Taco John]

We have upgraded. You have not (barring an act of God).



Dude, saying you've upgraded is a joke. First of all *ANYTHING* is an upgrade when you have some of the worst talent in the league manning your defense. Second of all, when you go from a Pinto to a Gremlin, you can hardly call it an upgrade...

[Taco John]

My reasoning is completely logical.

X > Y

Donks had a little X and a lot of Y last year

Donks lose X, add some more Y

Maybe Shanahan failed algebra.



What X did we lose? I'm trying to figure out what huge loss our defense took that adding guys to our defensive rotation is a big downgrade...

[bendog]

Fujita's no longer got legs. They added Sammy "nappy" Knight and a linebacker who suits up less than CB? And he talks smack. If he wants to talk smack, he should find a new team.

the fat salvi guy may have game. it remains to be seen.

As for Denver, they've more than made up for Heyward. Pryce remains the question.