A Brown D-line?

[Sir Mawn]

So far we've made two "important" moves on d-line, considered an area of weakness by any football fan not braindead.

Both players have been very high draft choices and are considered to have tons of potential because of it. On the surface it would seem as though this is a good, cheap risk for the team: low price, huge upside for both players. That's actually the way I've seen it so far, but there's something we can't ignore...

How can we expect great results from 2 players who have proven to generate average results (at best) if we're going to put them in a strikingly similiar situation: playing together again, with their same coach and with questionable talent sorrounding them (Pryce is a question mark at this point, if you ask me)...?

An argument could be made of Courtney's injuries and the fact that if he manages to stay healthy, he might finally develop into an unstoppable force. But there's no denying the fact that even when he has been healthy, his productivity in similiar working conditions as the ones he'll have here, have been less than stellar.

I wonder why we pursued Cleveland players and coaches for our d-line when it's been clear that together as a system, they've been mediocre? It's evident that these signings weren't part of the original "plan" (if such plan exists).

[ludo21]

i think if only one of them produces, it was still worth the risk.
fact is, the guys last year couldnt get it done, and they wanted some fresh blood with potential, when brown is healthy he has played well, warren on the other hand is just a clogger, but that might be a great thing considering he can take on the OL and let our speedy Lbs make the plays

[Hercules Rockefeller]

You're also looking at the 2nd and 3rd 1st round picks of a re-born franchise. That's a ton of pressure on two guys on a team without much talent just coming out of college.

[Sir Mawn]

You're also looking at the 2nd and 3rd 1st round picks of a re-born franchise. That's a ton of pressure on two guys on a team without much talent just coming out of college.

This is a good point. I'm not saying these are bad deals necessarily,
actually I'm HAPPY we signed Brown. But I can't help wondering (objectively) how much will it really help us.

[B-Love]

Let's hope it's not a repeat of the last time we scored a couple of Cleveland Brown D-Lineman.

James Jones and Michael Dean Perry circa 1995.

Nuff said.

[bendog]

That's an ugly thought. CB gives no reason to think this guy will be on the field for half the games. With Warren, the thinking seems to be that since the team will put him in the position he has desired (basically the undertackle that Pryce played early on in his career) Warren will be productive and not a bum in the locker room.

[Traveler]

I wonder why we pursued Cleveland players and coaches for our d-line when it's been clear that together as a system, they've been mediocre? It's evident that these signings weren't part of the original "plan" (if such plan exists).

From my understanding thru some of threads on the OM, there was a plan in place with Okeafor being the gem. When the FO couldn't get him for the slotted amount they had set aside, things were out of whack for lack of a better term.

Personally, I'm okay with the acquisition of CB and Warren. Even with all the so-called negatives. With our constant middle of the pack season records, this is the closest we'll get to that blue chip talent. I say it's a chance worth taking since our past results have been mediocre at best. Has anyone noticed how our defensive ends don't develop more than one pass rush move? It seems like if their first move doesn't work, you pretty much stymie them in their tracks.

Our failure to generate a decent pass rush are numerous IMO. I think it has more to do with the past DL coaches, focusing on trying to make players fit a system instead of developing a system around the players. Of course, not having someone that has an eye for spotting talent in the later rounds and the coaching them up is also part of the reason everyone here has been complaining about our lack of a pass rush.


Maybe Patterson will be our Bobby Turner on the defensive side of the ball. At least I hope so. The natural athleticism that both CB and Warren possess hasn't been on the DL since Alfred Williams and Neil Smith were here. Maybe things will get better or maybe they won't. Coyer has gotten all he will get out of the overachievers and castoffs from other teams. Let's see what he and the coaches can do with players with some God-given talent.

[bilrob]

I don't think anyone knows what is going on with Pryce. However, in picking up Warren and Brown, you must remember, they wont be on an island and all of the DL by themselves. Still on the roster are guys like Fatafehi, Pope, Dorset, Johnson and Ellis. We didn't do too shabby with them last year. I think things are looking pretty good.

[bronco militia]

Our failure to generate a decent pass rush are numerous IMO. I think it has more to do with the past DL coaches, focusing on trying to make players fit a system instead of developing a system around the players. Of course, not having someone that has an eye for spotting talent in the later rounds and the coaching them up is also part of the reason everyone here has been complaining about our lack of a pass rush.


.

I'll stick with blaming it on the turd DL the Broncos continue to draft.

[Mediator12]

Excellent question Sir Mawn. I think you have almost answered it yourself by referring to the systemic nature of teams especially each unit on each team.

These players were drafted to play in a system that never really suited their talents. Especially, Warren's strength is as a penetrator and disruptor on the inside, but Cleveland used him as on overstuffed blocker dummy to HOLD the point of attack in the middle. His counterparts at DT were less than our DL (as if that were possible) and he rarely was used to those strengths. Talk about constant double teaming! It was really made worse without Brown in the lineup alot.

CB has rarely seen the field with any semblance of pass rush support or decent LB's behind him. He HAD to beef up to play the run since the LB's were one of the worst tackling units in the NFL over the last three years. Just ask Jamal Lewis.

Furthermore, Denver's system plays to their strengths better because of what is behind them and the DL schemes. For all the knocks on the players at DL they all have mostly overachieved in their level of talent. Now, these two have underachieved in their previous team, due to the constraints of Injury and UNIT responsibilities. A new venue may or may not be the avenue to fulfilling the Talent underlying the potential. Coyer now has some talent along the line, let's see HOW he devises the schemes to take advantage of what is there.

Now, Patterson has been able to develop a repertoire with these guys and should help them accomodate to the new Denver system. The good thing is that he will not devise the schemes they implement, he will just tweak and reframe their processes in doing those tasks. Coyer will ultimately be held responsible for their level of play along with Jacob Burney who is the head DL coach. Their recent success in mentoring scrubs and rejects might well take these two underachieving, phenomenally talented guys and make them well above average or better. Right there would be marketed improvement.

Finally, for all the talk of the plan not being implemented or going the way people would like to date, SO WHAT! No one here really knows the details of the plan do they? The only thing I worry about is what ends up on the field every year. The DL has had 10+ new starters in the last three years. Absolutely zero consistancy and it has shown in the playoff losses. The draft has yielded only three of those ten Starters: Pryce, Pope, And Heyward. Hopefully Shanahan will stop trying to get younger on the offense this year and devote a few decent Draft picks to the DL. NOt late round talent that has a 20% chance to succeed but a few early picks that could be GOOD, not neccesarily great, DL that could be a part of the rotation for a few years to come.

[Odysseus]

Finally, for all the talk of the plan not being implemented or going the way people would like to date, SO WHAT! No one here really knows the details of the plan do they? The only thing I worry about is what ends up on the field every year. The DL has had 10+ new starters in the last three years. Absolutely zero consistancy and it has shown in the playoff losses. The draft has yielded only three of those ten Starters: Pryce, Pope, And Heyward. Hopefully Shanahan will stop trying to get younger on the offense this year and devote a few decent Draft picks to the DL. NOt late round talent that has a 20% chance to succeed but a few early picks that could be GOOD, not neccesarily great, DL that could be a part of the rotation for a few years to come.

What they do in the first round will tell a lot.

[TotallyScrewed]

I don't have a problem with the acquisition of these two Brownies. The pryce was right. But only if that two-tiered bonus number I've seen floating is a true floater (toilet bowl type, if you get my meaning). 9+ Million is way over the top for CB. I don't see how Denver could afford even a third of that. Do you??

Now as to whether CB and JW will find new life and success here. Who knows? Everything is different except that Mr. Brown needs to get over the serious injury that currently plagues him and BACK to where he was in 2003. Which BTW, was none too shabby. Getting well and back on track towards the potential is where it's at. IMHO, it's absolutely a must to get Trev back in the mix. We need him to lead these young maulers to the promised land.

The sad part is that this is a one-year trial. Say everything clicks and the Broncos D-line is a terror. Next year, they'll be hard pressed to keep one of the three. If they're a project with potential, Denver will be hard pressed to keep two of them and if they suck, they'll be back where they were at the start of this offseason.

Where in all this banter is Ellis Johnson? Is he a goner? Done deal? What?? Who've they got in the fold thus far??

[Sir Mawn]

I think this thread just became even more relevant with the possible acquisition of ANOTHER Brown!!!

Nice post Mediator... I can live with that, but I think the Ekuban trade is going a little overboard....

[Fundamentals]

I'm a Browns fan. Gerard Warren was a bust. He was not supposed to be the pick, in fact according to reports in the area the scouts and FO were set on Richard Seymour with the pick when Butch Davis came in and made the pick himself, based on familiarity with Warren. When Warren wants to play, he can be a force. However, he isn't in the best of shape, even for a DT, and takes a good amount of plays off. Too many times we'd see him simply standing at the LOS, not fighting to get through or even make a tackle. His stats are underwhelming and he was just a disappointment. Perhaps he needs a change of scenery to wake him up, but if you're expecting anything above mediocre play from him, you'll be disappointed.

Courtney Brown is a great man, he just can't stay healthy. When he is on the field, he is a force. Not only can he get to the passer (an amazing club move), but he was probably our best run defender as well. Brown has just had injury problems though. That being said, most of Cleveland will be rooting for him because of all the activities he does in the community. If he can stay healthy, that will require an increased rotation, he could be a steal.

Ekuban is decent. He probably had his best year last year after he came in when Brown got injured. He'll put pressure on the passer, but isn't a great tackler. His biggest liability is that he overruns plays. He'll try too hard to get a sack by running upfield, leaving a huge hole for an RB. I'm not sure I'd have given up Droughns for him, but if he is healthy, he can contribute.

[Antilles]

Let us not lose sight of the fact that brown is the color of poo.

[bronco militia]

Let us not lose sight of the fact that brown is the color of poo.

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