Another FYI/If you care.. Oakland signs DT

[Raider Bill]

March 28, 2005
Raiders will change schemes to 4-3
The Raiders firmed up their mission to be primarily a 4-3 defense by reaching a one-year contract agreement with Saints defensive tackle Kenny Smith.

Smith will fit nicely in the defensive tackle rotation along with Warren Sapp, Ted Washington and Terdell Sands. Two weeks ago, the Raiders signed Eagles defensive end Derrick Burgess.

They were a 3-4 scheme primarily last season. Smith was a third-round choice of the Saints in 2001 and started 10 games for the team, including nine during the 2003 season. He spent last season on the injured reserve list.

Nothing earthshattering, but a least it's another young guy.

[CBF1]

Your right, I really do not care... Orangemane = Broncos site.

[TheDave]

Your right, I really do not care... Orangemane = Broncos site.


Well that about sums it up!

[labronco]

Their d-line is laughable. Sapp and Washington are washed up. The rest I don't even know who they are. I will enjoy watching Tatum Bell busting through that line for many mile high salutes.

[bendog]

Thanks for the update. I really don't recall this guy, but if he's injured I'm sort of surprised Shanny didn't give him a few mill in bonus and a 4year contract, but maybe the plan is to give the cash to Jonathan Sullivan - an underachieving out of shape locker room cancer first round pick bust - after the 'aints give up on him.

[watermock]

I wouldn't mind Sullivan. It's funny that the Vikings goofed around on their draft picks but ultimately picked the right stuff. I have seen K-Will play (I get Vikings local coverage) and other than sometimes taking himeself out of position, he's a freaking monster. I have seen this guy bust thru double teams like butter.

[LifersRaiders]

Their d-line is laughable. Sapp and Washington are washed up. The rest I don't even know who they are. I will enjoy watching Tatum Bell busting through that line for many mile high salutes.I'm not sure Sapp and Washington are washed up. However, they're not suited at this point in their careers to play in a 3-4 defensive alignment. Both playing tackle in a 4-3 will really clog the middle. QB pressure will come from the DE's as it should in a 4-3 which is why you see Oakland going after DE's this off-season.

Speaking of joke d-lines, tell us all about Denvers.

[bendog]

out of curiosity what DE's did A$ go after this offseason?

[LifersRaiders]

out of curiosity what DE's did A$ go after this offseason?Raiders signed Eagles DE Derrick Burgess. Read a rumor the Raiders may go after N.O.'s DE Derrin Howard for Phillip Buchanan and a 2nd round pick.

[RaiderH8r]

I'm not sure Sapp and Washington are washed up. However, they're not suited at this point in their careers to play in a 3-4 defensive alignment. Both playing tackle in a 4-3 will really clog the middle. QB pressure will come from the DE's as it should in a 4-3 which is why you see Oakland going after DE's this off-season.

Speaking of joke d-lines, tell us all about Denvers.
Sapp and Ted are a couple of turds, they're just fatter this year.

[bendog]

That's right. Burgess played at S. Miss. He's on IR more than CB, LOL

[Raider Bill]

Look man, things were slow around these parts, at least I don't go around making
"Tatum meet your new friend" stupid posts.... I put it right out there in the title FYI/If you care.

Not a lot of news right now, so I thought news regarding a rival was worth mentioning.. If I'm wrong I'll stop.

[Sodak]

There are a couple classy Fade fans here.

[Spider]

Look man, things were slow around these parts, at least I don't go around making
"Tatum meet your new friend" stupid posts

LOL . Perhaps you should ......


.... I put it right out there in the title FYI/If you care.
yeah , you TNS , Max ...... are this side of ok for being Raider fans ....Dont tell anyone I said that ......... will deny it ;D

Not a lot of news right now, so I thought news regarding a rival was worth mentioning.. If I'm wrong I'll stop.
Lighten up Francis ........

[RaiderH8r]

Look man, things were slow around these parts, at least I don't go around making
"Tatum meet your new friend" stupid posts.... I put it right out there in the title FYI/If you care.

Not a lot of news right now, so I thought news regarding a rival was worth mentioning.. If I'm wrong I'll stop.
He has a point here....

Don't scare them away, it's good to have fade fans here. The Chefs just send over their mouthpiece "Information Minister" for representation. And the Sparklers....well even after a division title they still know better than to gloat because it's all going right back in the sh!tter next year.

[Raider Bill]

Oh and I believe that both Sapp and Washington are both only good for 12 snaps or so. That's why we have a 3 man rotation at UT. Another developmental wide body is needed to spell Washington.. Terdell Sands aint it IMO....

This also pretty much nails down who we're taking at 39, a RDE IMO (Tuck?) to hedge against Burgess' injury concerns.

I like our LDE's (Brayton and Bobby Hamilton) and our guys playing the 3 technique spot (Sapp, Tommy Kelly, and this dude) NT and RDE are still thin however./

[Raider Bill]

I hang around here to get the inside dope on the Donks, so I try to bring the goods when I hear something that I feel is worth mentioning.

[bendog]

Whatever happened to Paella or whatever that guy you signed away from SD name is?

[Raider Bill]

He's still hanging out there in FA I believe, refused a pay cut and was waived.....he didn't look to have a lot left last season IMO.


Although I don't like how Al has gone about this (Signing Porter and Trading for Moss being redundant IMO) he seems to have a change of philosophy with regard to age, all of these guys he's bringing in are still pretty young.

[LifersRaiders]

Although I don't like how Al has gone about this (Signing Porter and Trading for Moss being redundant IMO)Huh? How could you not be excited about having both Moss and Porter lining up at WR with Donald Curry tossed in for good measure?

[Mile High Shack]

Huh? How could you not be excited about having both Moss and Porter lining up at WR with Donald Curry tossed in for good measure?

Kerry Collins?

[Spider]

Kerry Collins?
Hilarious!

[LifersRaiders]

Kerry Collins?

Collins has played one more season than Plummet and has 6,000 more passing yards. Collins and Plummets TD/Int ratios are rougly the same and, Collins has taken his team to a Super Bowl. And Plummet? Nada. Collins has a 3400+ yard season in 13 games with Oakland under belt so he knows the system and players now. And, he'll have Moss and Porter to throw to. I'm glad you like bone-a-fide LOSER Jake Plummet as your QB. That putz will NEVER take Denver beyond anything other than a first round spanking in Indy.

[Mile High Shack]

Collins has played one more season than Plummet and has 6,000 more passing yards. Collins and Plummets TD/Int ratios are rougly the same and, Collins has taken his team to a Super Bowl. And Plummet? Nada. Collins has a 3400+ yard season in 13 games with Oakland under belt so he knows the system and players now. And, he'll have Moss and Porter to throw to. I'm glad you like bone-a-fide LOSER Jake Plummet as your QB. That putz will NEVER take Denver beyond anything other than a first round spanking in Indy.

wanna compare stats last year?

[Spider]

Collins has played one more season than Plummet and has 6,000 more passing yards. Collins and Plummets TD/Int ratios are rougly the same and, Collins has taken his team to a Super Bowl. And Plummet? Nada. Collins has a 3400+ yard season in 13 games with Oakland under belt so he knows the system and players now. And, he'll have Moss and Porter to throw to. I'm glad you like bone-a-fide LOSER Jake Plummet as your QB. That putz will NEVER take Denver beyond anything other than a first round spanking in Indy.
Well that says alot right there .. Kerry is a Drunk , quit on the Panthers , used Racial slurs , is a winner in your eyes ...... I guess you admire people that quit hey ......

[RaiderH8r]

Well that says alot right there .. Kerry is a Drunk , quit on the Panthers , used Racial slurs , is a winner in your eyes ...... I guess you admire people that quit hey ......
I'd say Collins is a scumbag degenerate and a Raider, but I'd be repeating myself.... :woowoo:

[LifersRaiders]

wanna compare stats last year?

I would say since Collins did not play a full season and was with a new team, comparing stats will be kind of apples and oranges. Since you insist, I'll indulge you.

Collins averaged 268 yards per game to Plummets 255. Plummet had only 6 more TD passes despite playing three more games than Collins. Plummets QB rating was slightly better than Collins. Collins playing on a team with no running game and playing defenses knowing he was going to pass damn near every down put up some decent numbers.

I'm not sure why you would want to compare stats since Plummets weren't any better than Collins despite playing on a playoff team.

Plummet is a proven career LOSER. If Collins can't get it done now with all the weapons at his disposal, then OK, I'll hop on the Collins hating bandwagon.

[Spider]

I'd say Collins is a scumbag degenerate and a Raider, but I'd be repeating myself.... :woowoo:
;D ......

[Spider]

If Collins can't get it done now with all the weapons at his disposal, then OK, I'll hop on the Collins hating bandwagon.
This just slays me ...... Somewhere, somehow you got the Idea we give a damn about what you do or think ........

[LifersRaiders]

;D ......

You ever string a sentence together containing anything that resembles some brain activity?

[Spider]

You ever string a sentence together containing anything that resembles some brain activity?

[LifersRaiders]

I rest my case.

[Spider]

I rest my case.
LOL ....... Still have that Bronco sticker on your jacket , there Loser ?
your biatch ass has been owned so many times , you just are not worth the effort

[Raider Bill]

Because Moss adressed a non existant problem... Porter Curry and Gabriel is a fine WR corps.. the problem on offense and defense to some extent was the non existant RB... I would have rather seen the Moss/Woodson money go to fix up the defense.

[LifersRaiders]

Because Moss adressed a non existant problem... Porter Curry and Gabriel is a fine WR corps.. the problem on offense and defense to some extent was the non existant RB... I would have rather seen the Moss/Woodson money go to fix up the defense.

Concetrating on defense certainly would have went along with conventional wisdom. However, adding Moss is kinna like taking your stock 'Vette and dropping a blower on it. Moss, Porter, Curry, Teyo Johnson and or Courtney Anderson along with LaMont Jordon lining up is going to scare the bejesus out of every defensive coordinator on the Raiders schedule. Moss was just to good to pass up.

Oakland wasn't going to make their defense into the Steel Curtain over night. Now, with what looks to be an ultra high powered Raiders offense removes the need for a Steel Curtain like defense. Raiders drop the 3-4 going back to a 4-3 and get a pash rush, the defense will be fine. Hell, mid-pack defense is going to be good enough.

Had the Raiders stayed with Porter and Curry as the prime wideouts along with Jordon in the backfield, nice offense but IMO would not have been good enough to overcome a 2005 defense that should be better (could it be worse?) but isn't going to remind anyone of the 2000 Ravens defense.

Randy Moss has completely transformed the team...on both sides of the ball.

Your tag line says it all.

[Raiders Rock]

Kerry Collins?

I look at this and wonder exactly how much worse than that Offensive Machine for a QB you have in Donkland?

Lemme see the numbers...... I know Kerry sucked bigtime early and wanted to see him run out on a rail myself to start with but seriously.... How much worse is Kerry's stats than Plummer?

[bendog]

They're completely different skill sets, so the comparison is ridiculous, but considering who made the comparison ... well maybe his Jr. High is on spring break.

Collins can't play the WC. It was tried and failed. It's pretty obvious that A$ has decided to abandon conventional wisdon and go back the 70s vertical game, but the crazy thing is that with the pussy WR rule changes, and with the relative scarcity of any real legit DE pass rush specialist types, it makes a certain sense.

Oak's defense is gonna suck though, cause came up crappers with those draft picks for Chucky.

No offense intended, RR.

[LifersRaiders]

How much worse is Kerry's stats than Plummer?

Notice how that issue wasn't addressed other than with some lame-ass insults.

[Mile High Shack]

I look at this and wonder exactly how much worse than that Offensive Machine for a QB you have in Donkland?

Lemme see the numbers...... I know Kerry sucked bigtime early and wanted to see him run out on a rail myself to start with but seriously.... How much worse is Kerry's stats than Plummer?

I don't have it in front of me, but Kerry had 2 more Turn Overs, about 6 less TDs and about 1K less yard I think

[Raider Bill]

They're completely different skill sets, so the comparison is ridiculous, but considering who made the comparison ... well maybe his Jr. High is on spring break.

Collins can't play the WC. It was tried and failed. It's pretty obvious that A$ has decided to abandon conventional wisdon and go back the 70s vertical game, but the crazy thing is that with the pussy WR rule changes, and with the relative scarcity of any real legit DE pass rush specialist types, it makes a certain sense..

Collins doesnt have to run the WCO, Turner is a Coryell offense guy. Power running behind zone blocking and take some shots down the field.


Oak's defense is gonna suck though, cause came up crappers with those draft picks for Chucky.

No offense intended, RR.

If the draft goes like my Mock here and the injury gods don't frown upon us, the running game and the 4-3 allignment will drag this cast of characters up 6-10 spots in ranking IMO.

We were 5-11 so if we get to 8-8 9-7 ish playing arena ball, the moves were successful. You have to start somewhere.

[Raider Bill]

Plummer 16 games 303 for 521 4089 yards 27 Tds 20 ints

Collins 14 games 289 for 513 3495 yards 21 tds 20 ints.



I cut Collins some slack because Gannon got all the starters reps, and the recievers were quite raw but improved as the season wore on.

[Maximus]

I tried to address this in this thread... I used stats from Collins' 13 starts in 2004
post #39

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=24094&page=1&pp=40

[Raider Bill]

Apparently Oakland is trying to work some salary cap magic and trade for Howard from the Saints... if that happens, the D is looking a lot better with a Brayton/Hamilton platoon at LDE and a Burgess/Howard Platoon at RDE.

Would only need to come away from this draft with a legit SAM backer and an OG IMO... not insurmountable.


Showtime for Howard straight up Hacksaw is reporting. Also there's rumours of them going after Renaldo Wynn which would make sense if PBuc is being delt.

[TheNextStep]

You mean Renaldo Hill, bill. Thanks again for refreshing my memory on who the hell he is. :)

I'm telling you, if the Raiders manage to get Howard for Buchanon and then sign Hill... hell, Raider fans have no right to complain about Oakland's off-season at all.

[Raider Bill]

Got my Renaldo's messed up.

[Maximus]

Hacksaw hasn't been wrong too often... This is getting me going all over again!

[Sodak]

You ever string a sentence together containing anything that resembles some brain activity?

That's a nice sentence fragment.

[LifersRaiders]

Collins doesnt have to run the WCO, Turner is a Coryell offense guy. Power running behind zone blocking and take some shots down the field.




If the draft goes like my Mock here and the injury gods don't frown upon us, the running game and the 4-3 allignment will drag this cast of characters up 6-10 spots in ranking IMO.

We were 5-11 so if we get to 8-8 9-7 ish playing arena ball, the moves were successful. You have to start somewhere.

Here in Mecca, we don't talk about "8-8 9-7 ish" kinna BS. Until proven otherwise, it's 19-0 while it's still the off-season. Dude, that naysayer kind of "well, lets hope we get better" attitude won't get you any tailgate invites at the Coliseum. Little to milque-toastish here in the East Bay.

[LifersRaiders]

That's a nice sentence fragment.

Yeah, wasn't it, teacher. Whadda putz.

[Raider Bill]

Here in Mecca, we don't talk about "8-8 9-7 ish" kinna BS. Until proven otherwise, it's 19-0 while it's still the off-season. Dude, that naysayer kind of "well, lets hope we get better" attitude won't get you any tailgate invites at the Coliseum. Little to milque-toastish here in the East Bay.


I'm 3000 miles away, don't expect to make many tailgates... I got too high on this team 2 years in a row now and stopped watching by week 8 (spent the Sundays with my kids and watched the tapes later) , this year I'm going with the optimism tempered with realism approach.

At the end of the day, your head coach is still Norv Turner so I mean how excited can you really get? ???

[TheNextStep]

At the end of the day, your head coach is still Norv Turner so I mean how excited can you really get? ???

At the end of the day, you can't discount talent. Put it this way: Barry Switzer has a ring.

[Raider Bill]

Switzer had a more "complete" team than this one.

Hailey>Burgess
Lett and Maryland > Sapp and Washington
Dixon Edwards, Robert Jones, and Darrin Smith? > Danny Clark and the 2 unknowns.
Moose Johnston>Konrad
Emmit>Jordan
Brock Marion and D. Woodson > Schweigert/Gibson or Anderson
Tony Tolbert > Brayton
CB is a wash.. .one stud and one stiff. Deion/Larry Brown - CWood PBuc.

Moss gets the edge over Irvin but Harper gets the edge over Porter IMO.

The OL's are similar but Dallas' had more time together.

Most importantly Aikman>Collins. If some of these rumored deals pan out, I'll change my tune as I see fit, but as it stands right now this is a .500 team give or take a game.

[TheNextStep]

bill, I'm not drawing a comparison between the two teams. I'm just making the point that teams with less than stellar coaches have been very successful in the NFL. Hell, look at what Mike Shanahan has done with the Broncos! ;)

[Raider Bill]

Switzer just kept the seat warm. The assistants and coordinators all remained from Jimmy Johnson.

He pulled a Callihan, if you will.

I never liked the Turner hire, the guy is a walking cluster**** as far as I'm concerned definately not the right kind of guy to keep the egos on this team reigned in.

[LifersRaiders]

I'm 3000 miles away, don't expect to make many tailgates... I got too high on this team 2 years in a row now and stopped watching by week 8 (spent the Sundays with my kids and watched the tapes later) , this year I'm going with the optimism tempered with realism approach.

At the end of the day, your head coach is still Norv Turner so I mean how excited can you really get? ???

I guess it's a different mindset here in RaiderLand. Turner gets pass this year after 2004. Can't make chicken do-do into chicken soup overnight.