No Way We Are Done

[labronco]

Ok, folks, here's the thing:

So far we lost high quality, consistent defensive players in Reggie, Kennoy, and Herndon.

What have we gained so far? Ian is an addendum to what is already the strength of our football team, and it doesn't replace any of our needs. I am glad we got Warren and Courtney, and who knows? It may pay huge dividend for relatively small investment. To me, that's not a huge gamble. If it doesn't work out, what, we lose a 4th rounder this year.

But none of the players we got so far replace what we have lost.
With impending lose of Trevor, Mike Shannahan has a lot of work to do. I once had a dream of trading whatever we have in this draft and Trevor to get a chance at Mike Williams. That would be a mistake now.

I really wish we focus our draft picks on defensive players the first day. Then maybe scramble for a player or two healthy veterans who can add depth.

What do you guys think?

[TheNextStep]

Personally, I think Trevor Pryce will not be a loss, when all is said and done. I think he plays in Denver next year.

[delany]

Pryce will be in Denver if he makes it through Day 1 of the Draft.

To expect a rook to come in and contribute meaningful snaps on the DL this year is asking a lot. Even Pryce didn't do that. Very few do. So what we get through FA will be our main contributors in this area. Thats why we will add one more vet at this position.

That isn't to say we shouldn't draft DL in round #1 (I think we should)....I just don't expect much from him in '05.

I would love to see Jeremey step up as the dime CB this year along with Middlebrooks anchoring the nickel. (actually my money is on him to have a GREAT camp and year).

I also think that Nick is a servicable safety.

The players that need to step up for Denver in '05 and replace the FA that were lost....are already on the team.

I am not expecting a 1st year starter out of this draft....are you?

[labronco]

I am not expecting a 1st year starter out of this draft....are you?

I usually don't. But given our situation, I think we should go into this draft thinking that we will get a starter or two in need positions. It certainly is possible, as we have done with DJ. I also think that there is higher chance of finding a player in defensive line than in other skill positions.

As it stands, it would be difficult because of our draft position. Really, we need to move up in the draft if this is the way the team thinks as well.

I do hope that Trevor stays and plays this year. Of course, it is the best scenario. Trevor may take a play off or two when he's healthy, but no one in right mind thinks Reggie or Bertrand is in the same category of player that Trevor is. If he plays out this year healthy and strong, it would elevate his stocks. If he still wants out and demand more money, I am sure someone will pay handsomely, and we'll have something more deserving in return. It's in both parties' best interest to restructure the contract, if Trevor really means what he says regarding his health.

[wabbit]

...I am not expecting a 1st year starter out of this draft....are you?

The belief is that if Denver takes a DT or DE with the first selection...even the second, that player will immediately be a factor in the rotation...but not necessarily a starter, unless, of course, he lights it up in Training Camp.

[delany]

The belief is that if Denver takes a DT or DE with the first selection...even the second, that player will immediately be a factor in the rotation...but not necessarily a starter, unless, of course, he lights it up in Training Camp.

Agreed.

I think a realistic goal would be being in the rotation for a DL draft pick...

Denver tends to rotate a lot on the line...so I would HOPE that the draftee will get on the field....

I think people need to temper their expectations though. After Pryce's rookie year...you could have said that Jon Harris...the DL taken right before Denver by Philly...was the better player. Pryce, like most DL that rely on one pass rushing move during college, needed time to mature.

I just don't see a player other than a guard starting for this team next year.

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

Agreed.

I think a realistic goal would be being in the rotation for a DL draft pick...

Denver tends to rotate a lot on the line...so I would HOPE that the draftee will get on the field....

I think people need to temper their expectations though. After Pryce's rookie year...you could have said that Jon Harris...the DL taken right before Denver by Philly...was the better player. Pryce, like most DL that rely on one pass rushing move during college, needed time to mature.

I just don't see a player other than a guard starting for this team next year.

Other than QB, OL is the hardest position(s) for a rookie to start in the NFL. My opinion is that they still need to sign a "rent a guard" to fill in this season. This draft has many solid, but not superstar, DL. Need to grab a couple of them while they have a chance.

[Broncoblood]

Price is still going to be there when day 1 is done, there is no one who really stands out that we need to move up for. Shanny is just pissed at price right now for not restructuring(F'ing rightly soo), so he is making price feel expendable. Shanny knows he is either going to get a spears, or one of the cody's at 25. Price will be saluting our hung bronco come '05 regular season.

[broncohaven]

I would hardly call Heyward consistent. I can only think of one game where he was a real difference maker.

[Jason in LA]

I like how the Broncos are shaping up.

On offense, I really think Bell is going to provide the spark that is missing. He looks like he can be a difference maker. Lelie is ready to become a Pro Bowl player. Watts will be a year better, and so will Putz. Foster was good as a first year starter. He'll get better too. Only question is RG. Hopefully Shanny limits Plummer's decisions like he did in '03, and that'll limit the picks. The O looks like it will be better.

On D, Ferguson will replace Kennedy just fine. I think he'll be better in pass coverage, but won't be as good in run support. Sounds like an even trade off. Walls and Middlebrooks will make Herndon a forgotten man. I'd say both of them were better than Herndon. It's just Herndon was able to stay healthy. Losing Hayward may not hurt so much because they will be blitzing the LBs more. Adding Gold helps a lot in that department. I like that they went back to the big DTs. Al Wilson will love that. He was at his best playing behind Chester McGlockton. Warren is a big DT that will keep the O linemen off of Wilson. The only question to me will be the health of Brown and Pryce (if they keep him). If those two guys are healthy this will be the best pair of DEs the Broncos have had in a while. But it's a big if. If they stay healthy, look for a lot of 4-3, and a lot of pressure on the QB. If they are banged up, look for a lot of the 3-4, and the pressure coming from the LBs.

Either way it goes, I think this team is looking good. They weren't far off the past two years. A couple players can take a 10-6 team to 12-4. A few plays here and there can do that. This team didn't need a major overhaul. They needed to tweak it so they are on the winning side of these close games.

[long beach bronco]

If Pryce stays then we don't need to draft a DE in round 1, our Dline would be set for '05, we could then focus on other areas like a fast WR but if i were Shanny i would pick Vincent Jackson in the 2nd round and in the first it would be kinda tuff if someone wanted to trade with us. I would trade out of the first round this season. But then again if Demarcus Ware is there at #25, i would love to pick that guy, he is one fast dude coming off the edge. Decisions, decisions.

[orange 4 life]

Ok, folks, here's the thing:

So far we lost high quality, consistent defensive players in Reggie, Kennoy, and Herndon.

What have we gained so far? Ian is an addendum to what is already the strength of our football team, and it doesn't replace any of our needs. I am glad we got Warren and Courtney, and who knows? It may pay huge dividend for relatively small investment. To me, that's not a huge gamble. If it doesn't work out, what, we lose a 4th rounder this year.

But none of the players we got so far replace what we have lost.
With impending lose of Trevor, Mike Shannahan has a lot of work to do. I once had a dream of trading whatever we have in this draft and Trevor to get a chance at Mike Williams. That would be a mistake now.

I really wish we focus our draft picks on defensive players the first day. Then maybe scramble for a player or two healthy veterans who can add depth.

What do you guys think?

i think that this is the kind of negativity i was wondering if i'd still see.
i think its WAY off base.

okay, lets break it down.

we lost hayward- a VERY average player who led a bad line with 10.5 sacks, three coming against tennessee with the outcome decided.

we lost herndon- a quality nickel, but nothing more.

we lost kennedy- no denying it, a good player and a big loss, but his COVERAGE skills are easily replaceable, and at least for NEXT season his hard hits are less important with lynch returning.

we lost dan neil- good enough lineman who was the KING of the inoportune holding call. carlisle is a better player.

well, thats about it guys. apparently, this is enough to have some people like slap say we'll go 6-10. mind you, he has NO reason to make that statement and in fact has REPEATEDLY avoided the topic since then, but he still said it.

lets see what we've gained shall we?

we gain warren and brown- if BOTH play well and stay healthy its a HUGE improvement over one overpaid hayward. even if only ONE makes an impact, that will likely STILL be an improvement over hayward.

we gain ian gold- bitch all you want people. some, like slap, have tried to say he's a player "twice cut". mind you, that statement cant be backed up either, but it was still said. fact is, gold is an impact player at the position, has NEVER been released for anything other than financial reasons, and is an APPRECIABLE gain over what we had.

we gain lenny walls and willie middlebrooks- yes, we had them a year ago, and yes, they werent free agents, BUT, they were hurt most all of last season (walls especially). walls is SIGNIFICANTLY better than herndon assuming both are healthy.

trevor remains a mystery, but rest assured we'll EITHER get a high draft choice OR we'll get trevor back. personally, i think its the latter, and since trev missed FOURTEEN games a year ago, getting him back is like adding a probowl player in free agency. we were 10-6 WITHOUT him a year ago.

on offense we're largely the same, BUUUUUTTTTT,
we get griffin back healthy- not high on him?
no problem, we get mike anderson back too. THAT one is significant. a leader, a versatile player, and needed depth.
we have bell in his second year ready to go.

we have lelie in his third year, and watts in his second.
we resigned putz.
we have lost ONE player, and he's replaced by someone better.
we have plummer in year three of the system.

well, you tell me how thats so bad?

fact is, its not.
we were 10-6 a year ago, shouldve been better, and have improved on both sides of the ball.
once again, i ask slap or anyone else to stand behind a lunatic 6-10 statement, and once again, im sure no one will.

the "plan" is actually coming together quite nicely, despite the near constant negativity on this board.

jake

[orange 4 life]

If Pryce stays then we don't need to draft a DE in round 1, our Dline would be set for '05, we could then focus on other areas like a fast WR but if i were Shanny i would pick Vincent Jackson in the 2nd round and in the first it would be kinda tuff if someone wanted to trade with us. I would trade out of the first round this season. But then again if Demarcus Ware is there at #25, i would love to pick that guy, he is one fast dude coming off the edge. Decisions, decisions.

and isnt it NICE to have decisions like that?

fact is, if trevor comes back, there is NOT ONE position of dire need on EITHER side of the ball....

...but listen to slap and i guess we're going 6-10 :kiddingme

[bombquixote]

and isnt it NICE to have decisions like that?

fact is, if trevor comes back, there is NOT ONE position of dire need on EITHER side of the ball....

...but listen to slap and i guess we're going 6-10 :kiddingme

i'd consider our need at guard dire. carlisle's okay at best, and we have **** for depth there. i'd also say our need at receiver is...pressing. rod's about out of gas, and although i like lelie and watts, neither of them is the physical presence we need in a posession reciever.

but agree with you that things are looking better. i'm not nearly as worried about the D-line as i was at the beginning of FA. secondary looks fine, if walls and middlebrooks have relatively injury-free years. backfield looks great. jake looks great. TE looks great.

conservatively, i'd guess 19-0 next season.

[kirby33]

I think we should pick up troy brown, draft jackson, so theres no immediate pressure on him. Brown is good for yardage after the catch, and a team player. Brown would help if watts doesnt progress the way we think he will