New records: FBI helped Saudis leave U.S. after 9/11

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/27/politics/27exodus.html

WASHINGTON - The episode has been retold so many times in the last three and a half years that it has become the stuff of political legend: in the frenzied days after Sept. 11, 2001, when some flights were still grounded, dozens of well-connected Saudis, including relatives of Osama bin Laden, managed to leave the United States on specially chartered flights.

Now, newly released government records show previously undisclosed flights from Las Vegas and elsewhere and point to a more active role by the Federal Bureau of Investigation in aiding some of the Saudis in their departure.

The F.B.I. gave personal airport escorts to two prominent Saudi families who fled the United States, and several other Saudis were allowed to leave the country without first being interviewed, the documents show.

The Saudi families, in Los Angeles and Orlando, requested the F.B.I. escorts because they said they were concerned for their safety in the wake of the attacks, and the F.B.I. - which was then beginning the biggest criminal investigation in its history - arranged to have agents escort them to their local airports, the documents show.

[Rascal]

Let me guess this is somehow Bush's fault?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Let me guess this is somehow Bush's fault?

Um, wasn't bush commander-in-chief at the time?

And the buck stops where?

[ClevelandBronco]

And why are we upset that these Saudis left?

[Bronco_Beerslug]

And why are we upset that these Saudis left?
Possibly because we didn't interrogate them all like the government said we did?

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Possibly because we didn't interrogate them all like the government said we did?

The government never said they interviewed all of them, and the 9/11 Commssion said that everyone was security screened and the FBI only interviewed the ones they thought possibly had info about 9/11 or Bin Laden. The article does a nice job by putting in the portion of the memo that says there's a possibility some got out who had knowledge. Of course that could happen, no security screen or interview process is going to be perfect.

This is a pretty long article by the NYT that's only new info were that flights were chartered from Vegas and some got personal escorts by the FBI to the airport. Not exactly earth-shattering revelations here.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Possibly because we didn't interrogate them all like the government said we did?

Ladies and gents, we have a winner. :)

But, alas, when you're a bush supporter, all those disconnects between what the administration says it does and what it actually does don't seem to show up on the "moral values" radar.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

http://www.people.virginia.edu/~jls6c/strips/ranch.gif

[Bronco_Beerslug]

The government never said they interviewed all of them, and the 9/11 Commssion said that everyone was security screened and the FBI only interviewed the ones they thought possibly had info about 9/11 or Bin Laden. The article does a nice job by putting in the portion of the memo that says there's a possibility some got out who had knowledge. Of course that could happen, no security screen or interview process is going to be perfect.

This is a pretty long article by the NYT that's only new info were that flights were chartered from Vegas and some got personal escorts by the FBI to the airport. Not exactly earth-shattering revelations here.

<a href="http://tinyurl.com/3zs6w">Complete 911 Timeline: Bin Laden family, Saudi Arabia, Bush</a>

There is a later dispute regarding how thoroughly the Saudis are interviewed before they leave and who approves the flights. Richard Clarke, National Security Council Chief of Counterterrorism, says he agrees to the flights after the FBI assures him none of those on board have connections to terrorism and that it is “a conscious decision with complete review at the highest levels of the State Department and the FBI and the White House.” [Congressional Testimony, 9/3/03]

<a href="http://tinyurl.com/3zs6w">Bush/Saudi Timeline</a>

September 14-19, 2001
Following secret flights inside the US that are in violation of a national private airplane flight ban (see September 13, 2001 (F)), members of the bin Laden family and Saudi royalty quietly depart the US. The flights are only publicly acknowledged after all the Saudis have left. About 140 Saudis, including around 24 members of the bin Laden family, are passengers in these flights. Most of their identities aren't known. However, some of the passengers include:

1. The son of the Saudi Defense Minister Prince Sultan. Sultan is being sued for alleged complicity in the 9/11 plot (see August 15, 2002). [Tampa Tribune, 10/5/01] He is alleged to have contributed at least $6 million since 1994 to four charities that finance al-Qaeda. [Vanity Fair, 10/03]
2. Khalil bin Laden. He has been investigated by the Brazilian government for possible terrorist connections. [Vanity Fair, 10/03]
3. Abdullah
Abdullah bin Laden
and
4. Omar bin Laden, cousins of bin Laden. Abdullah was the US director of the Muslim charity World Assembly of Muslim Youth (WAMY). The governments of India, Pakistan, Philippines, and Bosnia have all accused WAMY of funding terrorism. These two relatives were investigated by the FBI in 1996 in a case involving espionage, murder, and national security (September 11, 1996). Their case is reopened on September 19 right after 9/11 they leave the country. [Vanity Fair, 10/03] Remarkably, four of the 9/11 hijackers briefly live in the town of Falls Church, Virginia, three blocks from the WAMY office headed by Abdullah bin Laden. [BBC Newsnight, 11/6/01]
5. Saleh Ibn Abdul Rahman Hussayen. He is a prominent Saudi official who is in the same hotel as three of the hijackers the night before 9/11. He leaves on one of the first flights to Saudi Arabia before the FBI can properly interview him about this (see September 10, 2001 (U)).


Former President George Bush Sr. meets with the bin Laden family on behalf of the Carlyle Group. He had also met with them in 1998 (see November 1998 (B)), but it's not known if he met with them after this. Bush denied this meeting took place until a thank you note was found confirming it. [Wall Street Journal, 9/27/01, Guardian, 10/31/01] [FTW]

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline/people/bushcarlyle.jpg

Ex-President Bush Sr. meeting in Saudi Arabia on behalf of the Carlyle Group.


[B]September 20, 2001 (B)
President Bush states: “Either you are with us, or you are against us. From this day forward, any nation that continues to harbor or support terrorism will be regarded by the United States as a hostile regime.” [White House, 9/20/01] Shortly thereafter, Bush says: “As far as the Saudi Arabians go, they've been nothing but cooperative,” and “[Am] I pleased with the actions of Saudi Arabia? I am.” However, several experts continue to claim Saudi Arabia is being “completely unsupportive” and is giving “zero cooperation” to the 9/11 investigation. Saudi Arabia refuses to help the US trace the names and other background information on the 15 Saudi hijackers. One former US official says, “They knew that once we started asking for a few traces the list would grow…. It's better to shut it down right away.” [Los Angeles Times 10/13/01; New Yorker 10/16/01] The Saudi government continues to be uncooperative, and the US government continues to downplay this (see Early December 2001 (B), November 2002 and ).

[Hercules Rockefeller]

You've now switched your argument Beerslug.

Here's your original quote:

Possibly because we didn't interrogate them all like the government said we did?

You said the government claimed that everyone who left had been interrogated by the FBI. Nothing in your post has anything that says the FBI interrogated them all. You post a quote by Clarke that says the flights were only cleared after the FBI assured him no one had terrorist connections. That is the security check the FBI said everyone went through, that's not an interrogation. You then proceed to Monday Morning QB it with the list of 5 individuals who might have had ties to terrorism.

1. Was the FBI investigating terrorist funding up until then? Was that even a primary concern of the FBI to investigate? That's not even direct invovlement. The paragraph that discusses it in the Vanity Fair article says that most of the funding by prominent Saudis was inadvertent to what they thought were legit charities. Do you have any proof that he knew what he was funding?

2. No dates were given for when the Brazilians made these claims

3 and 4. Looks like a definite error by the FBI

5. The next line discussing that says no evidence has come forth that there was a connection, though one person claims it couldn't be a coincidence.

So we have apparent 2 errors by the FBI and 3 where no proof was offered to back up the accusation.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

The real question(s) here:

Why were the relatives of the man (Osama bin Forgotten) who was accused of masterminding the 9/11 attacks not interrogated before leaving the US?

Why has there been no call for an investigation?

(I know the answer to this second one - because it didn't have anything to do with Clinton's honker.)

[Bronco_Beerslug]

You've now switched your argument Beerslug.

Here's your original quote:

You said the government claimed that everyone who left had been interrogated by the FBI. Nothing in your post has anything that says the FBI interrogated them all. You post a quote by Clarke that says the flights were only cleared after the FBI assured him no one had terrorist connections. That is the security check the FBI said everyone went through, that's not an interrogation. You then proceed to Monday Morning QB it with the list of 5 individuals who might have had ties to terrorism.

.

Maybe it can be taken that the government didn't say they interrogated all of those that they let escape the country but they did say it was a
“a conscious decision with complete review at the highest levels of the State Department and the FBI and the White House.”

Whatever the rhetoric, it was backdoor, shady, questionable and something most people completely disagree with.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

You post a quote by Clarke that says the flights were only cleared after the FBI assured him no one had terrorist connections.

You're making BB's point for him.

That is, how can the FBI "assure" Clarke that none of the subjects has terrorist connections (or useful information about the attacks, bin Laden's whereabouts, al Qaeda, etc.) without having interrogated these Saudis?

That is the security check the FBI said everyone went through, that's not an interrogation.

The article I posted indicated that several of the Saudis in question had not even been interviewed by the F.B.I. prior to leaving the US.

How do you do a "security check" without even interviewing the subject?

Further, how do you verify that a subject has no useful information re: the attacks, bin Laden's whereabouts, al Qaeda, etc., without an interview?

[Hercules Rockefeller]

No I didn't. The FBI, DoD, State, etc. all do things background checks for security clearances without interviewing the individual. Interrogations are not conducted if you have no reason to question people. Does that call security clearances into doubt now since there was no face-to-face questioning for some?

Usama had been disowned by his family for years when 9/11 went down. Even with that, do you honestly think that the FBI did not keep tabs on his family members when they were in the country? These people were known about. It's not like they were in the country without State, the FBI and even the CIA's knowledge.

Ditto with these other Saudis, these were Royals and other prominent citizens. The majority were not Average Muhammads that had come in on F-1s and now wanted to leave. The FBI knew who these people were ahead of time, and those they thought had connections were interviewed.

This is pretty ironic that liberals in this thread think that the Saudis should be questioned even if the FBI has no reason to, other then the fact they are Saudis, would be screaming bloody murder if the FBI or a local police agency had done this to any American for the same reasons. If that was the case there'd be threads here about the Patriot Act, or how Bush is doing away with the Constitution.

This article has brought nothing new to what has already been known about the days after 9/11 and the Saudis who left the country.

[alkemical]

Either that or the approx 8 billion the saudi's have invested in the US is good enough reason to give red carpet treatment.

[Spider]

Chances are no matter who was in Office , they would have let the Saudis Flee ......
I am not excusing Bush , the FBI or the Goverment , I am sure the Saudis have enough dirt on the way we have ran a Foreign Policy since the 1900's .......
I am sure both sides of the isle have dirty secerets and underhanded dealings ......
I am not excusing Bush by saying everyone has done it , But we need to get to the root of the Problem .......

[alkemical]

I'm not blaming bush for this, because as you see - bush blacking out clinton's papers - one hand washes the other.

all these little 'distractions' - are what they are - they distract us from the bigger story.

[Spider]

I'm not blaming bush for this, because as you see - bush blacking out clinton's papers - one hand washes the other.

all these little 'distractions' - are what they are - they distract us from the bigger story.
agreed ...... I know the Democratic party has its troubles , but the reason I am a demcrat is I believe in the core principals of the democratic party .....

[alkemical]

I'm a libertarian based on my principles are with how much the gov't steps on me.

[Spider]

I'm a libertarian based on my principles are with how much the gov't steps on me.
I could talk about being stepped on by the goverment , but that is with Both Parties ...... D.O.T. they have more power then any other law enforcement agency , I have seen them in action .......

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Interrogations are not conducted if you have no reason to question people.

And the need to gather information re: the 9/11 attacks doesn't constitute such a "reason?"

Usama had been disowned by his family for years when 9/11 went down.

If true, this doesn't preclude the possibility that his relatives might be able to provide useful info about Bin Forgotten.

This is pretty ironic that liberals in this thread think that the Saudis should be questioned even if the FBI has no reason to...

It's more than ironic - it's incredible - that right-wingers (1) assume the FBI had no reason to question the relatives of the man responsible for 9/11, and (2) try to give BushCo a pass for this sort of security lapse.

http://www.izzyguaal.com/ws/pol/bin/2faces/2faces_thmb.jpg

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

BTW, which family has business ties w/ the Saudi Royals and the Bin Ladens, and financial links to al Qaeda/OBL, i.e., via BCCI? (Hint: Not the Clinton family.)

And who was sitting in a NYC hotel lobby conducting Carlyle Group business with Salem Bin Laden when the 9/11 attacks took place? (Hint: Not a member of the Clinton family.)

Hint: That Saudi prince's nickname is "Bandar Bush" - not "Bandar Clinton."

This article has brought nothing new to what has already been known about the days after 9/11 and the Saudis who left the country.

Got reading comprehension?

Now, newly released government records show previously undisclosed flights from Las Vegas and elsewhere and point to a more active role by the Federal Bureau of Investigation in aiding some of the Saudis in their departure.

The F.B.I. gave personal airport escorts to two prominent Saudi families who fled the United States, and several other Saudis were allowed to leave the country without first being interviewed, the documents show.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Got reading comprehension?

Read my first post in this thread?

This is a pretty long article by the NYT that's only new info were that flights were chartered from Vegas and some got personal escorts by the FBI to the airport. Not exactly earth-shattering revelations here.

Like I've already said, this is hardly earth-shattering news that changes anything.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

If true, this doesn't preclude the possibility that his relatives might be able to provide useful info about Bin Forgotten.


http://www.rense.com/general19/business.htm

The Bin Laden family disowned Osama after he was stripped of his Saudi citizenship in 1994 for suspected terrorist activities and criticism of the Al Saud ruling family.

[Rigs11]

Read my first post in this thread?



Like I've already said, this is hardly earth-shattering news that changes anything.

You Bush supporters are hiliarious. When this first came out 2 years ago and Moore pounced on it, you tried every which way to spin out of it. Now that it comes from an even more credible source you state that it's "hardly earth-shattering news". Unbelievable. The problem is that it should "change everything". An investigation should be started into why they were allowed to leave so quckly. And If Bush was president then he was either in on it, or he was incompetent and did not know that after the biggest terrorist attack on US soil, the FBI was escorting the Saudis without proper interrogation. Either way, failed leadership.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

You Bush supporters are hiliarious. When this first came out 2 years ago and Moore pounced on it, you tried every which way to spin out of it. Now that it comes from an even more credible source you state that it's "hardly earth-shattering news". Unbelievable.

My thoughts and sentiments exactly.

The problem is that it should "change everything". An investigation should be started into why they were allowed to leave so quckly.

This would only happen in a sane America where reason, logic, facts, and ethics ruled the day - not in BushWorld.

Either way, failed leadership.

The story of Bush's life (both private and public.)