Well it seems the Iraqi vote was a success..

[Spider]

There was some attacks , but those were pretty much expected ...... Huge voter turnout ........ I still think the Iraqi People should have overthrown Saddam on their own , but Props to Bush for the election taking place in iraq ........

[enjolras]

I'll say this...

No one (on this board or anywhere else) has the right to question the toughness of the Iraqi people. It was absolutely amazing watching those people stand in lines to vote.. you could SEE the fear in their eyes, looking over the soldiers, literally wondering if the person standing behind them was a bomb.

It impressed the hell out of me.

[Spider]

I'll say this...

No one (on this board or anywhere else) has the right to question the toughness of the Iraqi people.
I will ....... They lived almost 60 Years under a brutal dictator , Running torture camps , Mass Graves , and they didnt lift a finger to stop it .........I am impressed by them turning out to vote , but I do question their toughness .......

[enjolras]

I will ....... They lived almost 60 Years under a brutal dictator , Running torture camps , Mass Graves , and they didnt lift a finger to stop it .........I am impressed by them turning out to vote , but I do question their toughness .......

It's hard to fault them for that as a people. Saddam was a master at his craft. Every attempt at overthrowing him was met with absolutely horrific results. Just ask the Kurds.

This wasn't like the Americans rebelling 200 years ago. They chased a British militia out back to Boston and then had weeks to prepare for the true British response. We had relative freedom to organize (we held a congress in public). The American endeavor was dangerous, no doubt, but compared to overthrowing a government within miles of your home in the modern world, it was a relative cakewalk.

There WHERE attempts to overthrowing Saddam, all wildly unsucessful. Saddam was simply to well armed, and to good at establishing watchdog bueacracy that made it almost impossible.

[TexanBob]

It must have gone well because our media was so ready to rub the whole thing in Bush's nose as a "failure" and a "quagmire" and they are being unusually silent, just as they were extremely quiet when Afghanistan held their elections which came off with very few incidents.

Are the elections perfect? No. But they are a start. And what that start is is the beginning of a government in Iraq that people can say they had a part in choosing and a voice in their own country's destiny. Once the Iraqis get a taste of it, most are not going to want to go back to living under dictatorship. That's the power of freedom and democracy.

Of course, there will be more violence and more terror. There will always be thugs who want to intimidate others by force of will, not just in the Middle East but in places like the Ukraine and Chechnya. They will not ultimately win.

Now, you can argue all you want about whether it was worth the lives of 1,400 American soldiers or whether it stabilizes or de-stabilizes the Arab world, whether it helps us in our War on Terror, etc. Those are legitimate debates. But what you can't say is that we were better off leaving Saddam in power and leaving Iraq as the area's big bully. What is happening in Iraq and Afghanistan will have a ripple effect throughout the region. The terrorists know it and that is why they have tried so hard to disrupt it.

[Spider]

It's hard to fault them for that as a people. Saddam was a master at his craft. Every attempt at overthrowing him was met with absolutely horrific results. Just ask the Kurds.
It is hard to fault them ?
Damn dude ....... Torture camps , Mass graves ........ Ever hear of rebelling ?

This wasn't like the Americans rebelling 200 years ago.
Who said it was like us 200 Years ago ?
They chased a British militia out back to Boston and then had weeks to prepare for the true British response. We had relative freedom to organize (we held a congress in public). The American endeavor was dangerous, no doubt, but compared to overthrowing a government within miles of your home in the modern world, it was a relative cakewalk.
Thanks for the History Lesson ....... But what in the hell that have to do with Iraq rebelling ? Take a look at Russia , a few other counties ......

There WHERE attempts to overthrowing Saddam, all wildly unsucessful. Saddam was simply to well armed, and to good at establishing watchdog bueacracy that made it almost impossible.
if at first you fail you keep trying ....... nothing is impossible , not with how many People are in Iraq .......

[Spider]

But what you can't say is that we were better off leaving Saddam in power and leaving Iraq as the area's big bully. What is happening in Iraq and Afghanistan will have a ripple effect throughout the region. The terrorists know it and that is why they have tried so hard to disrupt it.
Some big Bully huh ........

[TexanBob]

Some big Bully huh ........

Geographically speaking, yes. Who else was going to stand up to him but somebody halfway around the world?

I believed (and actually expected) that our first wave of soldiers in Iraq would be annihlated by WMDs (I had/have no confidence in the UN and their corrupt shell-game inspections). Lucky for us, Saddam shipped his WMDs off to somewhere else (Libya or Syria likely) and then tried to play rope-a-dope. That didn't work and we've probably had more deaths from Al Qaeda's friends coming in and blowing up things than we have had from combat against Saddam's old regime.

I do think it is a big mistake to keep the old buzzard alive. I think some Iraqis will not feel truly free as long as there is *any* chance that Saddam might return to power. For the good of the country, he needs to be executed. If they want to have a show trial first, go ahead. But he has to be bumped off for some Iraqis to be convinced that Saddam's regime has completely ended and the country can move ahead with a new future.

[Spider]

Geographically speaking, yes. Who else was going to stand up to him but somebody halfway around the world?
Iran faught him for 20 years ........ Saddam would have failed if we didnt support him .........

I believed (and actually expected) that our first wave of soldiers in Iraq would be annihlated by WMDs (I had/have no confidence in the UN and their corrupt shell-game inspections).
Even though No WMD were found you still call it a shell game Hilarious!

Lucky for us, Saddam shipped his WMDs off to somewhere else (Libya or Syria likely)
LOL .... yeah that makes sense

and then tried to play rope-a-dope. That didn't work and we've probably had more deaths from Al Qaeda's friends coming in and blowing up things than we have had from combat against Saddam's old regime.
In other words it i a good thing that we stopped selling Weapons to Saddam .....

I do think it is a big mistake to keep the old buzzard alive. I think some Iraqis will not feel truly free as long as there is *any* chance that Saddam might return to power. For the good of the country, he needs to be executed. If they want to have a show trial first, go ahead. But he has to be bumped off for some Iraqis to be convinced that Saddam's regime has completely ended and the country can move ahead with a new future.
Wow Saddam in your eyes is one powerfull dude .. you must realy fear him .....

[Bronco_Beerslug]

There was some attacks , but those were pretty much expected ...... Huge voter turnout ........ I still think the Iraqi People should have overthrown Saddam on their own , but Props to Bush for the election taking place in iraq ........
We won't know numbers for up to a few weeks yet but it's being reported now that in some areas (Sunni) there was very little or no turnout. So this will be a problem because some sects are claiming that the elections are not legimate.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

I believed (and actually expected) that our first wave of soldiers in Iraq would be annihlated by WMDs (I had/have no confidence in the UN and their corrupt shell-game inspections). Lucky for us, Saddam shipped his WMDs off to somewhere else (Libya or Syria likely) and then tried to play rope-a-dope. That didn't work and we've probably had more deaths from Al Qaeda's friends coming in and blowing up things than we have had from combat against Saddam's old regime.


What part of the U.S. governments report don't you understand when they stated that there was NO WMD program in Iraq?

[errand]

We won't know numbers for up to a few weeks yet but it's being reported now that in some areas (Sunni) there was very little or no turnout. So this will be a problem because some sects are claiming that the elections are not legimate.


...and here he is folks, right on schedule with his usual doom and gloom, ****ty outlook on everything.

[errand]

What part of the U.S. governments report don't you understand when they stated that there was NO WMD program in Iraq?

Yeah, the report said that he hadn't had any since, what, '91?

If that is true, then what the hell was all the fuss about in '98 when the Dems said he was a threat, and had WMDs?

Keep on believing they never existed......clown.

[Crushaholic]

Wow Saddam in your eyes is one powerfull dude .. you must realy fear him .....

The Iraqi people feared him. That's why past "elections" have gone almost 100% for Saddam. They feared retribution and severe consequences if they didn't support the guy. I'm amazed at the character and the bravery of the Iraqi people. They came out in droves even though people were uncertain of how secure the polling places were going to be. The United States has none of those concerns and we get around 50% turnout or just slightly better on good election days.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

What part of the U.S. governments report don't you understand when they stated that there was NO WMD program in Iraq?

The same part that states Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, I'd wager.

I guess anyone who can be duped into believing Bush Inc.'s rationalizations for invading Iraq can probably be just as easily conned into believing that the so-called "elections" are are about "democracy" or "spreading freedom."

http://www.bartcop.com/130-winner.jpg

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Is this 72% of all eligible voters, or 72% or registered voters? You'd think the whore media would be sick to their stomachs from all of their spinning by now.

Al Jazeera is reporting a far different story:
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/674D4BC3-BDA3-41AF-9D40-B80D79F812F9.htm

Looks like turnout is varying from region to region, and some places had nobody showing up at the polls--those that even opened at all.

Iraqi officials: No turnout figure expected soon

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1107055729768

Confusion over turnout was widespread Sunday, after the Iraqi electoral commission first announced a whopping 72 percent voter turnout, but then acknowledged the figure was based only on guesses. Officials quickly backtracked.

"These figures are only very rough, word-of-mouth estimates gathered informally from the field," the commission said in a statement late Sunday.

__________________________________________________ __________________

...But polls were largely deserted all day in many cities of the Sunni Triangle north and west of the capital, particularly Fallujah, Ramadi and Beiji. In Baghdad's mainly Sunni Arab area of Azamiyah, the neighborhood's four polling centers did not open at all, residents said.

A low Sunni turnout could undermine the new government that will emerge from the vote and worsen tensions among the country's ethnic, religious and cultural groups.

Officials said turnout among the 14 million eligible voters appeared higher than the 57 percent that had been predicted, although it was too soon to tell for sure.

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/013005Y.shtml

In Britain, only 20% of eligible Iraqis bothered to register. And there aren't too many car bombs or snipers attacking voters around the polling place in London.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Today's charade is simply about Iraq's oil

In the weeks before the U.S. invasion of Iraq, the influential New York Times columnist Thomas Friedman wrote approvingly of "the breath-taking audacity" of the Bush administration's plans for Iraq.

Friedman noted that the invasion would lead to "a long-term U.S. occupation" and that "Iraq will be controlled by the iron fist of the U.S. Army." Apparently he didn't regard any of this as a problem — just part of the job of remaking Iraq to fit the fantasies of U.S. policymakers.

Friedman's casual acceptance of Washington's right to redesign other countries — an attitude rampant among media commentators as well as U.S. officials — sheds light on why the occupation of Iraq has been such a disaster, and why there's little reason to believe Iraq is on the path to democracy.

No matter how inspired the rhetoric, the U.S. project in Iraq has never been about democracy. It's been about getting control of Iraq's vast, virtually untouched oil reserves, and extending Washington's military reach over the region. "Think of Iraq as a military base with a very large oil reserve underneath; you can't ask for better than that," Wall Street oil analyst Fadel Gheit told me in an interview.

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar%2FLayout%2FArticle_ Type1&c=Article&cid=1107039016034

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

The charade of democracy

The American "ambassador" to "independent" Iraq, Mr Negroponte, has rather obligingly told us that the "mere staging" of the elections would be an "undeniable success". How apt and inadvertently naive the choice of the word "stage" is. For staging is precisely what is going on, a charade that demands but doesn't receive a suspension of belief. Belief indeed is impossible for reality keeps breaking in the steadily rising level of violence.

No campaigning in no true sense of the word. No candidates except nameless and faceless people on lists that remain unidentified. Voters in fear of being killed. Emergency rule in most parts of the country. Would-be Sunni voters both unable to register and fearful of a Shia majority. The Shias with a calculating eye on the main chance and showing no evidence of a willingness to accommodate the minorities in any way. International "observers" monitoring this farce at long distance in the safety of Amman and Jordan.

Rumsfeld, no less, with the spurious air of accepting reality, saying "I think looking for a peaceful Iraq after the elections would be a mistake." Iraqi forces either infiltrated by insurgency spies or at the behest of their civilian controllers arbitrarily arresting people and torturing detainees.

http://www.deccanherald.com/deccanherald/jan302005/nanporia.asp

[Spider]

The Iraqi people feared him. That's why past "elections" have gone almost 100% for Saddam. They feared retribution and severe consequences if they didn't support the guy. I'm amazed at the character and the bravery of the Iraqi people. They came out in droves even though people were uncertain of how secure the polling places were going to be. The United States has none of those concerns and we get around 50% turnout or just slightly better on good election days.
But I thought we wernt to question the Iraqi courage , you seem to confirm my point that the Iraqis in general are cowards .......

[enjolras]

But I thought we wernt to question the Iraqi courage , you seem to confirm my point that the Iraqis in general are cowards .......

I wonder.. if there was a organized insurgency camped out in our backyard threatening to kill (indiscriminately) anyone who goes to the polls what turn-out here at home would be like?

I have no idea... but I bet your perspective would be quite different then.

[Spider]

I wonder.. if there was a organized insurgency camped out in our backyard threatening to kill (indiscriminately) anyone who goes to the polls what turn-out here at home would be like?

I have no idea... but I bet your perspective would be quite different then.
LOL ... Nice try , if Saddam was everything everyone said he was , then why fear insurgents ?
If Saddam was killing his own people at will , Mass Graves , torture Chambers , Why fear insurgents ? Nothing would have changed now would it ?
after all if we were to believe everything we heard about Saddam , the Iraqi People have lived in Fear for over 50 Years ........ Insurgents wouldnt be any different .......
Either the Iraqi People are cowards , or Saddam was overhyped ........

[Eye Patch]

Al Jazeera is reporting a far different story:
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/674D4BC3-BDA3-41AF-9D40-B80D79F812F9.htm

.

It seems LABF has taken to a new low.

As if bartcop was not bad enough he is now quoting from aljazeera as a source. Pathetic.

AlJazeera is a joke as a news organization and is typical of the liberal left where every story about Iraq or the US is nothing but gloom and doom. Its news is as if Michael Moore was the producer and director of AlJazeera, as it is nothing more than a propaganda tool.

It is a sad day when we have an (sic) American propping up a terrorist lie at the expense of other Americans so that his hate can continue on.

This organization is a fraud and so is the person who posted it.

[Eye Patch]

http://www.coxandforkum.com/archives/05.01.30.IraqisVote-X.gif

[Bronco_Beerslug]

It is a sad day when we have an (sic) American propping up a terrorist lie at the expense of other Americans so that his hate can continue on.

So you have information that the Sunnis did actually turn out to vote? I'm pretty sure no one will know the numbers for a least a week yet but if you have sources showing the numbers post them.

----------------------------------
(snip)
With turnout in the vote still unknown, concern was focused on participation by Iraq's Sunni Arab minority, amid fears that the group that drives the insurgency could grow ever more alienated. Electoral commission officials said turnout in hardline Sunni areas was better than some expected, thought they cited no numbers. A U.S. diplomat warned that Sunni participation appeared "considerably lower" than that of other groups.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=1&u=/ap/20050131/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_the_vote

[Spider]

Well I am about as anti Bush as LABF , but I dont think the voter turnout is all that important , the mere fact they had an Election , is whats important .......
I still say it would have been better if the Iraqi People over threw Saddam themselfs .......

[Eye Patch]

So you have information that the Sunnis did actually turn out to vote? I'm pretty sure no one will know the numbers for a least a week yet but if you have sources showing the numbers post them.

----------------------------------
(snip)
With turnout in the vote still unknown, concern was focused on participation by Iraq's Sunni Arab minority, amid fears that the group that drives the insurgency could grow ever more alienated. Electoral commission officials said turnout in hardline Sunni areas was better than some expected, thought they cited no numbers. A U.S. diplomat warned that Sunni participation appeared "considerably lower" than that of other groups.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=1&u=/ap/20050131/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_the_vote

Well if the Sunni's did not participate or vote in the election...

that was their CHOICE... and as such will live with the election results.

Just like the democrats have to when they lose here.

Typical left wing liberals… Bush could find the cure for cancer and you libs would be arguing about how union lab rats are out of jobs.

[Rascal]

Question: What's the typical turnout in democratic elections? Does that number match the % in Iraq that voted?

It was there first election...of course there are problems with it. But they have the choice of changing things in the next election unlike years previous.

But yes, it would have been better for them to free themselves, but they didn't and now we are there. And since we are, disagree or not about being there, we need to get the job done.

[Spider]

Well if the Sunni's did not participate or vote in the election...

that was their CHOICE... and as such will live with the election results.
agreed ...... the fact that they had the choice will dawn on them sooner or later .....

Just like the democrats have to when they lose here.

Typical left wing liberals… Bush could find the cure for cancer and you libs would be arguing about how union lab rats are out of jobs.
I concider it a fringe benifit ....... I get to piss of Republicans while finding somthing wrong with Bush ....... I see it as a win win situation ;D

[Spider]

Question: What's the typical turnout in democratic elections? Does that number match the % in Iraq that voted?

It was there first election...of course there are problems with it. But they have the choice of changing things in the next election unlike years previous.

But yes, it would have been better for them to free themselves, but they didn't and now we are there. And since we are, disagree or not about being there, we need to get the job done.
Agreed ....... Very well said

[Eye Patch]

I concider it a fringe benifit ....... I get to piss of Republicans while finding somthing wrong with Bush ....... I see it as a win win situation ;D

Nothing like fringe benefits....

[Spider]

Nothing like fringe benefits....
;D thank a Union

[Eye Patch]

;D thank a Union

what for... I'm not in a union and have amble fringe benefits...

like the time to make fun of donk fans.

[Spider]

what for... I'm not in a union and have amble fringe benefits...

like the time to make fun of donk fans.
you have those Benifits cause of Unions .....
Make fun of Bronco fans ....... By a Raider fan no less Hilarious!

[Eye Patch]

you have those Benifits cause of Unions .....


Not in my case...

[Spider]

Not in my case...
in all cases , go back the Labor Movment .......
Pre Jimmy Hoffa days .........Denial is an ugly thing

[gunns]

If that is true, then what the hell was all the fuss about in '98 when the Dems said he was a threat, and had WMDs?

Yeah, well thank heavens they didn't rush in where fools have rushed in.

[gunns]

But yes, it would have been better for them to free themselves, but they didn't and now we are there. And since we are, disagree or not about being there, we need to get the job done.

Does this mean we'll finally stop saying we are there fighting for our freedom?

[Eye Patch]

in all cases , go back the Labor Movment .......
Pre Jimmy Hoffa days .........Denial is an ugly thing

No denying about the labor movement being very much needed in those days.

but... as for the unions of today they are a reflection of the lazy and the incompetent as they have become nothing more than politcal hacks.

[Spider]

No denying about the labor movement being very much needed in those days.

but... as for the unions of today they are a reflection of the lazy and the incompetent as they have become nothing more than politcal hacks.
I would agree with that . a Union too big is useless to both Employee and business , and a Union to small is useless .........
But alot of Union Workers are hard working tax paying Guys .....

[Crushaholic]

But I thought we wernt to question the Iraqi courage , you seem to confirm my point that the Iraqis in general are cowards .......

How is that reinforcing the Iraqis are cowards? You think that the Iraqis should have risen up to overthrow Saddam, but it's not that easy. When a member of his regime drags away a family member to torture and/or kill them, I don't blame them for being scared. His regime is over, but there are still random acts of violence to worry about. Insurgents don't want freedom and democracy to spread and they will do anything they can to stop it. The fact that so many Iraqis ignored this threat and voted in a free election shows the progress of the effort in Iraq and proof that conditions are improving with Saddam gone and the climate of fear is diminishing.

[Spider]

How is that reinforcing the Iraqis are cowards? You think that the Iraqis should have risen up to overthrow Saddam, but it's not that easy. When a member of his regime drags away a family member to torture and/or kill them, I don't blame them for being scared. His regime is over, but there are still random acts of violence to worry about. Insurgents don't want freedom and democracy to spread and they will do anything they can to stop it. The fact that so many Iraqis ignored this threat and voted in a free election shows the progress of the effort in Iraq and proof that conditions are improving with Saddam gone and the climate of fear is diminishing.
LOL ..... that was a reach ... lets see we spend every day worring if a Family member is going to, get drug off and Killed, tortured or maimed .so we wont do anything about it , but yet Insurgents scare the hell out of us but because we have courage , we will vote ........ oh well I am sure that makes sense to some ............

[TexanBob]

You seem to have a real difficulty understanding what it is like to live in tyranny, don't you? Tyranny and terrorism are two different things. Tyranny is where the state does the oppressing. Terrorism is where a group of individuals stage random acts of violence in hopes of affecting the policies of the state (see Spain, 2004). It is possible to fear tyranny (because the government controls everything) and yet stand up to terrorism.

[Montaq]

Insurgents don't want freedom and democracy to spread and they will do anything they can to stop it.



ROFL! ummm... I love that word "freedom"... "They hate us because of our freedom!"

When did this war become about freedom? All those who believe this war is about freedom please say "Baa" like the sheep that you are.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

It seems LABF has taken to a new low.
As if bartcop was not bad enough....

http://www.bartcop.com/bart_ad6.gif

AlJazeera is a joke as a news organization and is typical of the liberal left where every story about Iraq or the US is nothing but gloom and doom. Its news is as if Michael Moore was the producer and director of AlJazeera, as it is nothing more than a propaganda tool.

And we're supposed to just accept this broad-brush statement without evidence - just because you say so?

I still have some of that oceanfront property in Wyoming for sale too if you're interested.

It is a sad day when we have an (sic) American propping up a terrorist lie at the expense of other Americans so that his hate can continue on.

So now you're claiming that the author is a terrorist? Would it be too much to ask for some actual evidence to support this accusation? (I know, I know - to the average right-wingnut, all persons of Arabic descent are terrorists.)

BTW, it's a "sad day" when Americans like Patch, et al, prop up war criminals like Bush Inc. at the expense of the American people.

[Spider]

You seem to have a real difficulty understanding what it is like to live in tyranny, don't you? Tyranny and terrorism are two different things. Tyranny is where the state does the oppressing. Terrorism is where a group of individuals stage random acts of violence in hopes of affecting the policies of the state (see Spain, 2004). It is possible to fear tyranny (because the government controls everything) and yet stand up to terrorism.
And what you have a hard time understanding , is if these People were so Brave They WOULDNT HAVE LIVED UNDER TYRANNY get it yet ?
yo can make all the excuses you need to though .......

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Tyranny is where the state does the oppressing.

Like when one nation state, e.g., BushCo's "America," oppresses another, i.e., Iraq?

Gotcha.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

It must take a hell of a lot of cognitive dissonance for the Bush Davidians to ignore the fact that the frat boy militarily invaded another sovereign nation without provocation and for reasons that all turned out to be lies, bombed the crap out of that nation and killed 100,000 innocent civilians, and called it "spreading freedom and democracy."

http://www.evolvefish.com/fish/media/B-Daddy'sWar.gif

[TexanBob]

Most of those who opposed Saddam either left the country or died trying. Saddam has had his internal opponents and killed most of them off. Remember that Kurdish village where he gassed them all to death?

Any totalitarian state is going to take the non-appeasers and either kill them, jail them or coerce them into compliance. His sons had rape and torture rooms - who do you suppose he used them on? Many Iraqis live today with fingers missing from where they were suspected of disobeying Saddam's government.

It's easy for you from the comfort of Wyoming to say they are cowards for not standing up to him but the truth is that he had a quarter-century to purge the malcontents and leave only those who valued survival over dignity.

And this is not just a problem for the people in Iraq but people in Cuba, in China, in Rwanda, in Sudan, in North Korea and many other parts of the world where you are not allowed to come and go as you please or demonstrate against the government.

In the face of that, it takes an incredible amount of courage to say "you may kill me today but I will not obey this government." Many thousands, perhaps millions, around the world have died this way known only to God and a few on earth that cared.

Go back and study the Holocaust and tell me all those Jews were a bunch of cowards.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

As incredible as it might seem, I actually agree with Texas Pete on one small point: I don't fault the Iraqis for their failure to rid themselves of Hussein.

After all, don't you remember what happened last time when Poppy Bush exhorted them to do just that?

[ClevelandBronco]

…some sects are claiming that the elections are not legimate.

Sounds like our very own Democrats in '00 and '04.

I love the smell of elections in the morning. Smells like...victory.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Sounds like our very own Democrats in '00 and '04.

I love the smell of elections in the morning. Smells like...victory.
Ignorant analogy. Victory=?


Attack and invade a country that was no threat to us.
Over 1400 Americans dead and counting.
Over 20,000 American casualties and counting.
Over 300 billion and counting.
No exit strategy.
Sunnis (millions of Iraqis) refuse to participate in elections.
Insurgents promise to keep killing until we're out of their country (and it won't stop even then).

=================================
"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."

-- Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials

[Montaq]

Ignorant analogy. Victory=?

Apparently a Republican victory is the equivalent to bombing our country with Napalm.

[Spider]

Go back and study the Holocaust and tell me all those Jews were a bunch of cowards.
Jews , Holocaust ? hello Mcfly ........ Germany wasnt the Jews homeland , the Jews were interlopers ..........good grief .......ok I better break this down .....
The Jews were imagrants , they fled to Germany , and Hitler killed them for it ......
Iraq belongs to the Iraqi it is their homeland , I still dont understand why Some pople insist on comaring the 2 , but they do ...........

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

http://www.bartcop.com/sparky200405561.jpg

Some Just Voted for Food

Many Iraqis said Monday that their names were marked on a list provided by the government agency that provides monthly food rations before they were allowed to vote. ”I went to the voting centre and gave my name and district where I lived to a man,” said Wassif Hamsa, a 32-year-old journalist who lives in the predominantly Shia area Janila in Baghdad. 'This man then sent me to the person who distributed my monthly food ration..."Two of the food dealers I know told me personally that our
food rations would be withheld if we did not vote,” said Saeed Jodhet, a 21-year-old engineering student who voted in the Hay al-Jihad district of Baghdad."

http://www.dahrjamailiraq.com/hard_news/archives/hard_news/000192.php

The American whore media keeps telling us these elections are a great victory for Bush. Did you know there weren't even any names on the ballots? The people running for office were too scared to list their names. People voted for numbers instead of names.

Quotes

"All these precious words have now become something akin to brand names:
"democracy", "freedom", "liberty", "empowerment." They don't really mean anything,
they're just the names attached to things we do. They aren't defined by any intrinsic quality. It's like the reverse of the abuse/torture dichotomy. If we do it, it's "abuse," if anyone else does it, it's torture. If we do it, it's democracy and freedom."

http://www.underthesamesun.org/

[ClevelandBronco]

Jews , Holocaust ? hello Mcfly ........ Germany wasnt the Jews homeland , the Jews were interlopers ..........good grief .......ok I better break this down .....
The Jews were imagrants , they fled to Germany , and Hitler killed them for it ......
Iraq belongs to the Iraqi it is their homeland , I still dont understand why Some pople insist on comaring the 2 , but they do ...........

Long night from spider, after five too many, yet again.

[Spider]

Long night from spider, after five too many, yet again.
Ha! , so you want to start insulting hey .. Fine by me ........ I can be a real bastard .......
I am all for educating stupid people , even People as stupid as you ......
Now take long look at that post you quoted retard .... I will break it down for you ............
Iraqi People vs the Jews ...ready ? good ....
Iraq is the Iraqi homeland .......
Germany is not the Jews homeland ....... Pretty basic , I hope I didnt lose you yet .......
The Iraqis had a homeland to fight for ( get the Concept yet ? )
The Jews didnt have a homeland , The Jews fled to Germany , Austria , Switzerland , etc ......
So why in the hell do People insist on comparing the holocaust , and the mass Graves in Iraq?
P.S. Retard , alot of those occupants of the Mass Graves happen to be Irainians from the 20 year Iran- Iraq war .......... I hope I didnt drown you in all this info ........

[Exile_In_SJ]

[QUOTE=Bronco_Beerslug]Ignorant analogy. Victory=?


Attack and invade a country that was no threat to us.
Over 1400 Americans dead and counting.
Over 20,000 American casualties and counting.
Over 300 billion and counting.
No exit strategy.
Sunnis (millions of Iraqis) refuse to participate in elections.
Insurgents promise to keep killing until we're out of their country (and it won't stop even then).

QUOTE]


Kind of like we did to Germany in both world wars.

only 1400 dead? We had over 5000 dead in one day when we freed the French on D-Day. Each death is a sad event. Each soldier however in this conflict is a volunteer.

over 300 billion and counting? So? We spend taxpayers money on things every day. Who knows what the final return will be?

No exit strategy? Who says? you? the left? Because you don't know what a plan is does that mean it doesn't exist? We'll exit when the time is right. I don't have a problem with that. We still have troops in Japan, Germany and Korea, what were the exit strategies from those conflicts? Why didn't the left blather on about exit strategies when Truman commited us to remain in Germany and Japan? No exit strategy is just another tired old mantra being droned on about by the left.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Bush's 'Mission Accomplished' election charade

http://www.freepress.org/columns/display/7/2005/1070

Once again the toady army of media Bushlickers has proclaimed "Mission Accomplished" in Iraq. And once again, the real outcome is murder, mayhem and utter catastrophe, with worse yet to come.

For endless prime time hours, Fox and the major news desks -- the Izvestia and Pravda of Bush's America -- blare the party line about the "miraculous success" of the Iraqi balloting.

No doubt it set amazing precedents. For example, this may have been the world's first election in which the location of the polling places was kept secret, along with the list of the major candidates.

It may also be remembered for the vast numbers of Iraqis who refused to vote.