Home schooling

[Spider]

Sunday after the debacle , the massacre , of the Denver Broncos , we went up the Mountian and relaxed ....... Come back Monday to a nasty letter from the school board about my daughter , after an ugly argument , I am homeschooling my daughter . so I wont have as much free time as I once had , so I wont be posting at the mane very often ......
My son wants to Home school , but I am reluctant about this idea , public schools offer so much more then I ever could , sports , interacting and functioning in a social atmosphere ..... be dropping in from time to time ;D

[bendog]

Does Casper Community College have classes for GED type stuff? I recall from my teacher days - many, many light years ago in a galaxy far, far away - that some of my HS kids needed to get away from the social predatory aspect of the school, and found a niche in a community college preparing them for university.

ps, on that thread, here's something you may get a kick out of Spider. When I worked in Evanston Wyo, one of my co-workers had a little girl in elementary school, and some of the mormon folk wouldn't let their kids play with her cause she was not mormon. Now, here in Miss, a little girl moves in on the block, and her dad's doing a medical residency, so they got like zero money, and teh public schools suck ass in the city of Jackson, but the family doesn't move to one of the 'burbs where schools are much better, because there are a bunch of baptists who think they're in a "cult." So the little girl's getting home schooled, and even that's tough cause while the home shcool parents band together to do field trips and stuff, most of them are the nutter types who don't like mormons. It's almost (-: enough to piss me off.

[Spider]

Does Casper Community College have classes for GED type stuff? I recall from my teacher days - many, many light years ago in a galaxy far, far away - that some of my HS kids needed to get away from the social predatory aspect of the school, and found a niche in a community college preparing them for university. My daughter was in Jr. High so
I am not sure about this program or if she is old enough , I will look into it .....
Problem is they say my daughter cant realy be educated , I say she can be , you just have to go at a much slower pace , she learns things in a different way ...Doesnt make her stupid , just different ....My son excells in a social setting he is outgoing friendly , and sticks up for kids like his sister . What puzzels me is this is recent developement, in my daughters education , she was always a step behind , but we never encountered this problem to this degree ..... Natrona county is a school of choice , means we can send our kids to any school we wish in natrona county , so far this week I have checked out all of the schools , and every one of them are worried about some test the students can pass in order for the School to get money ....
I am not smart enough to teach kids , but I have no choice , I am cracking books right now ......

[TheDave]

Sunday after the debacle , the massacre , of the Denver Broncos , we went up the Mountian and relaxed ....... Come back Monday to a nasty letter from the school board about my daughter , after an ugly argument , I am homeschooling my daughter . so I wont have as much free time as I once had , so I wont be posting at the mane very often ......
My son wants to Home school , but I am reluctant about this idea , public schools offer so much more then I ever could , sports , interacting and functioning in a social atmosphere ..... be dropping in from time to time ;D

Sorry to hear about that Spider, good luck with it... don't worry i'll be sure to keep errand and the likes in line while your gone!

[Spider]

Sorry to hear about that Spider, good luck with it... don't worry i'll be sure to keep errand and the likes in line while your gone!
LOL thanks ;D

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

Good luck Spider. I do not have any personal experience with them, but I understand there are some good online programs around. A friend has a son about the same age who lived overseas until a year or so ago. He is suplementing his son's school with some programs from BYU (the University - not Bob) to help get him up to speed.

[Spider]

ps, on that thread, here's something you may get a kick out of Spider. When I worked in Evanston Wyo, one of my co-workers had a little girl in elementary school, and some of the mormon folk wouldn't let their kids play with her cause she was not mormon. Now, here in Miss, a little girl moves in on the block, and her dad's doing a medical residency, so they got like zero money, and teh public schools suck ass in the city of Jackson, but the family doesn't move to one of the 'burbs where schools are much better, because there are a bunch of baptists who think they're in a "cult." So the little girl's getting home schooled, and even that's tough cause while the home shcool parents band together to do field trips and stuff, most of them are the nutter types who don't like mormons. It's almost (-: enough to piss me off.
it is idiotic ...... some religion sect realy do have some odd agendas , I contacted one home schooling parent here in Casper , and his first words were praise god , so I think I will be doing field trips on my own , dont get me wrong I dont have anything against religion , but I dont want to go to the local Baptist church for a field trip ......

[Spider]

Good luck Spider. I do not have any personal experience with them, but I understand there are some good online programs around. A friend has a son about the same age who lived overseas until a year or so ago. He is suplementing his son's school with some programs from BYU (the University - not Bob) to help get him up to speed.
Thanks , I will need all the help I can get ......

[bendog]

hmmmmm. Natrona Co was a pretty good district.

I looked briefly and found it odd that I didn't see an online curriculum at the wyo dept of educ.

Here's mississippi's ... I'd think they are largely generic.

http://www.mde.k12.ms.us/Curriculum/index_1.htm

For info about your rights vis a vis Natrona's decisions about your daughter ... assuming she has some learning or developmental disability....

http://wypanda.vcn.com/services.htm

good luck

I noticed that there were various homeschooling parent groups in Wyo when I did a google of homeschooling wyoming

[bendog]

it is idiotic ...... some religion sect realy do have some odd agendas , I contacted one home schooling parent here in Casper , and his first words were praise god , so I think I will be doing field trips on my own , dont get me wrong I dont have anything against religion , but I dont want to go to the local Baptist church for a field trip ......
My little girl neighbor used to play with these two families a couple of doors away ... they go to a day school run by Presbyterians ... but now they won't play with her cause she belongs "to a cult." The amusing thing, if there is one, is that the kid's grandfather is a muchobighonco in Bushii's dept of educ back in Washington. Anyway, when I saw the mom of one of these families while I was walking my new puppy, and she came over to see how cute he is, I made a pt of saying we were going to pick up the little girl to come over and play. frigging bitch.

[Mtbrncofn]

Sunday after the debacle , the massacre , of the Denver Broncos , we went up the Mountian and relaxed ....... Come back Monday to a nasty letter from the school board about my daughter , after an ugly argument , I am homeschooling my daughter . so I wont have as much free time as I once had , so I wont be posting at the mane very often ......
My son wants to Home school , but I am reluctant about this idea , public schools offer so much more then I ever could , sports , interacting and functioning in a social atmosphere ..... be dropping in from time to time ;D


Wow, good luck with that, Spider. That takes a lot of courage and dedication to take that on. I had considered it, but then realized that I would be certifiable within a week, probably less. I was very hesitant about public schooling based purely on the level of education. I went to a private school til I hit high school, and I thank my mom to this day for that.

That said, I am very pleased with the level of education at the school my kids go to now. They have a great track record, and the teachers are wonderful.

[Spider]

hmmmmm. Natrona Co was a pretty good district.
Still is except for my daughter .......

I looked briefly and found it odd that I didn't see an online curriculum at the wyo dept of educ.
Small time school .........

Here's mississippi's ... I'd think they are largely generic.

http://www.mde.k12.ms.us/Curriculum/index_1.htm

For info about your rights vis a vis Natrona's decisions about your daughter ... assuming she has some learning or developmental disability....

http://wypanda.vcn.com/services.htm

good luck

I noticed that there were various homeschooling parent groups in Wyo when I did a google of homeschooling wyoming
Thanks .........

[Spider]

Wow, good luck with that, Spider. That takes a lot of courage and dedication to take that on. I had considered it, but then realized that I would be certifiable within a week, probably less. I was very hesitant about public schooling based purely on the level of education. I went to a private school til I hit high school, and I thank my mom to this day for that.

That said, I am very pleased with the level of education at the school my kids go to now. They have a great track record, and the teachers are wonderful.
;D I could be a raving lunitic after this .......
Schools here are good , but they lack alot of resources , that larger communities have ........

[PatsWin2002]

I don't know anyone that has done this, but I've always wondered how it's "official".

Meaning.....do the homeschooled kids also have to take the standardized tests to prove that they're making progress?

[Spider]

I don't know anyone that has done this, but I've always wondered how it's "official".

Meaning.....do the homeschooled kids also have to take the standardized tests to prove that they're making progress?
I dont know about everywhere , but here in Wyoming , you realy dont have alot of red tape as far as that goes . I take the position , that if I take short cuts , all I am doing is short changing my daughter and cheating here out of a wonderfull gift of an education .
I take education very serious cause I myself only have a 9 th grade education ...

[BoilerChief]

I don't know anyone that has done this, but I've always wondered how it's "official".

Meaning.....do the homeschooled kids also have to take the standardized tests to prove that they're making progress?

We homeschool using a public Cyberschool. One of the best things ever invented! For standard homeschooling It is normally up to the parent to document the childs work and determine if the child is making progress. Of course for college addmission you have the ACT and SAT. Done properly homeschooling is a very good choice! :thumbsup:

[PatsWin2002]

I take education very serious cause I myself only have a 9 th grade education ...

Really? How'd that happen? (If you don't mind me asking)

Do you have to prove to someone that you're qualified to bring someone else to a 12th grade education?

Man, I just don't know how this stuff works..........but I'd bet it'd be harder here in Massachusetts......seems there's a lot of red tape with friggin' everything here.

[Spider]

Really? How'd that happen? (If you don't mind me asking)
not at all , I was half way through the tenth Grade , and I discovered a thugs life ...

Do you have to prove to someone that you're qualified to bring someone else to a 12th grade education?
No , you just send in a yearly report of what you are doing and teaching your child to meet the requirments , but I guess i have a special case , so I am not yet aware of what I will have to provide ....

Man, I just don't know how this stuff works..........but I'd bet it'd be harder here in Massachusetts......seems there's a lot of red tape with friggin' everything here.
I am not sure . I still have alot of questions myself

[Eye Patch]

Spider… isn’t tutoring through the school or through the community available? I would exhaust this opinion before I pulled her from public school.

Maybe just a little mentoring is all she needs to keep up.

[Spider]

Spider… isn’t tutoring through the school or through the community available? I would exhaust this opinion before I pulled her from public school.

Maybe just a little mentoring is all she needs to keep up.
Yeah I went through that route , and I realy didnt pull her as much as the school throwing their hands up in frustration .. mainly it was a 2 way street ...
I do know this though , if I fail , then I fail her , and that isnt an option ...

[Mile High Shack]

Yeah I went through that route , and I realy didnt pull her as much as the school throwing their hands up in frustration .. mainly it was a 2 way street ...
I do know this though , if I fail , then I fail her , and that isnt an option ...

there aren't any private schools or anything?

man I don't think I could homeschool my kids, I don't have good patience and when they start getting to higher math (which I haven't used in a few years) I'd be not as much help

[Eye Patch]

I'm talking about professional tutoring... throught the school or social services.

Some colleges have their students become tutors for credit and monetary sources from social agencies.

[PatsWin2002]

Well, Spide, we're here for ya!

I've been out of high school 20 years this year, but these things may rush back to me like bad dreams........quadratic equations........y=mx+b......s,p,d,f orbitals in chemistry....9.8 meters/second squared....... :kiddingme :dummy:

Maybe it will give us new stuff to argue about.

You could have some fun with it by making up your own word problems like:

Chef fan lives in a trailer park with 240 trailers. Half of the trailers are double-wide and have twice as many wheels as a standard trailer. A standard trailer has 8 wheels. If Raider fan slashes all the tires on all the trailers in the trailer park, how many tires has he slashed?

[Spider]

I'm talking about professional tutoring... throught the school or social services.

Some colleges have their students become tutors for credit and monetary sources from social agencies.
Yeah , we had Mrs Lynn , wonderfull tutor and teacher , had my daughter from 1 st grade up to 6th grade , now she is retiring and is very upset , over some of the Changes she has encountered , she is fairly young she doesnt want to retire, but she feels phased out ... Patch I have exhausted alot of options , and the main obstecal we face is Children like my daughter , bring down the average test scores ........

[Spider]

there aren't any private schools or anything?

man I don't think I could homeschool my kids, I don't have good patience and when they start getting to higher math (which I haven't used in a few years) I'd be not as much help
I have checked into 2 Private schools and a woods learning center .......
and they dont want no part of her , cause of her test scores ......

[Spider]

Well, Spide, we're here for ya!

I've been out of high school 20 years this year, but these things may rush back to me like bad dreams........quadratic equations........y=mx+b......s,p,d,f orbitals in chemistry....9.8 meters/second squared....... :kiddingme :dummy:
add 12 carry the 5 and come up with 7 ;D

Maybe it will give us new stuff to argue about.

You could have some fun with it by making up your own word problems like:

Chef fan lives in a trailer park with 240 trailers. Half of the trailers are double-wide and have twice as many wheels as a standard trailer. A standard trailer has 8 wheels. If Raider fan slashes all the tires on all the trailers in the trailer park, how many tires has he slashed?
LOL ....... Rep!!!!!!!

[Mile High Shack]

I have checked into 2 Private schools and a woods learning center .......
and they dont want no part of her , cause of her test scores ......


well that is just B.S., what do they want her to do

what if parents both worked, what in the hell could you do then?

freakin' bureaucrats.......

[Spider]

well that is just B.S., what do they want her to do

what if parents both worked, what in the hell could you do then?

freakin' bureaucrats.......
Well we both do work , I just have a different work format then most do ...
they didnt give me no answers , the test scores are the bottom line bro ... if the teachers cant get a certian overall average score of his or hers class then he / she , takes the brunt ......

[Bob's your Information Minister]

these things may rush back to me like bad dreams........quadratic equations........y=mx+b......s,p,d,f orbitals in chemistry....9.8 meters/second squared....... [/I]

OH GOD! NOT THE QUADRATIC EQUATION! ARRRRGH!

[Spider]

Darwin theory - natural selection , is what I came up with so far ......
cull the weaker kids out and present the stronger kids as a success story . Hey look we increased the overall test scores , our kids are smarter , then before ........
Maybe it is for the best , I will admit my daughter learns at a slower pace , then most kids ......

[PatsWin2002]

Those MCAS tests are a huge deal here. The existing teachers feel like they have to spend all their time "teaching to the test" and abandoning what they've always done.

This is good and bad. Good teachers have to adjust and know their success will be measured this way....school by school........town by town. It also exposes a lot of those nasty, tenured curmudgeons that never should've been teachers in the first place.

Every school administrator wants his/her town to rank as high as possible.....meaning they prefer fewer special needs kids bringing scores down. Granted, the scores are tallied with and without those students, but I think they mostly look at that overall score.

Is MCAS a national thing? Here in Massachusetts they test 4th, 8th, and 10th graders (I think) and you need to pass those in order to graduate.

[Spider]

Those MCAS tests are a huge deal here. The existing teachers feel like they have to spend all their time "teaching to the test" and abandoning what they've always done.

This is good and bad. Good teachers have to adjust and know their success will be measured this way....school by school........town by town. It also exposes a lot of those nasty, tenured curmudgeons that never should've been teachers in the first place.

Every school administrator wants his/her town to rank as high as possible.....meaning they prefer fewer special needs kids bringing scores down. Granted, the scores are tallied with and without those students, but I think they mostly look at that overall score.

Is MCAS a national thing? Here in Massachusetts they test 4th, 8th, and 10th graders (I think) and you need to pass those in order to graduate.

Those test are embraced here , big ole race here to be the best .....

[Mile High Shack]

Darwin theory - natural selection , is what I came up with so far ......
cull the weaker kids out and present the stronger kids as a success story . Hey look we increased the overall test scores , our kids are smarter , then before ........
Maybe it is for the best , I will admit my daughter learns at a slower pace , then most kids ......

hell you need to move to oklahoma then b/c there isn't any test like that

[Spider]

hell you need to move to oklahoma then b/c there isn't any test like that
i think there is Bro this is just like Wyomings
http://title3.sde.state.ok.us/studentassessment/

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

Those MCAS tests are a huge deal here. The existing teachers feel like they have to spend all their time "teaching to the test" and abandoning what they've always done.

This is good and bad. Good teachers have to adjust and know their success will be measured this way....school by school........town by town. It also exposes a lot of those nasty, tenured curmudgeons that never should've been teachers in the first place.

Every school administrator wants his/her town to rank as high as possible.....meaning they prefer fewer special needs kids bringing scores down. Granted, the scores are tallied with and without those students, but I think they mostly look at that overall score.

Is MCAS a national thing? Here in Massachusetts they test 4th, 8th, and 10th graders (I think) and you need to pass those in order to graduate.
We have the same thing in Colo called CSAP. Same issues with teaching to the test and funding. I do think it brings some accountability and standardization to the school systems, but like most things run by the government, it is a bureaucratic mess.

The principal at my kids school has the funding game down pat. I am lucky my kids do well and they get plenty extras as a result. If they were not doing well, they would get shuffled to the side, too.

[PatsWin2002]

Those test are embraced here , big ole race here to be the best .....

Exactly.

And the wealthiest towns are always at the top. Then you get to see English and Math results by household income and by parents' education level, etc.

Actually, a few of the poorest cities were given X amount of time to get up to snuff or lose their accreditation as a learning institution.

Those places have to deal with so much more than the wealthy suburbs. For starters they are the biggest melting pot and have the largest number of language barrier issues to overcome. And basic survival is a higher priority than any quadratic equation.

[Mile High Shack]

i think there is Bro this is just like Wyomings
http://title3.sde.state.ok.us/studentassessment/

there might be, but you don't have to pass it to graduate if I remember correctly

[Mile High Shack]

Exactly.

And the wealthiest towns are always at the top. Then you get to see English and Math results by household income and by parents' education level, etc.

Actually, a few of the poorest cities were given X amount of time to get up to snuff or lose their accreditation as a learning institution.

Those places have to deal with so much more than the wealthy suburbs. For starters they are the biggest melting pot and have the largest number of language barrier issues to overcome. And basic survival is a higher priority than any quadratic equation.

so what it boils down to..........it's a good idea in theory but big government always finds a way to screw it up

[Candy Cigarettes]

Spider, take a trip to the local library. There are tons of books on homeschooling, there are also homeschooling magazines. Homeschooling is growing in popularity, so there are lots of resources out there, including internet schooling. Some of the best and brightest kids I have met are homeschooled. Just make sure your daughter has other outlets for social interaction - mucho importante! Best of luck to you..

[Spider]

Thats my son Big guy , there was even talk of advancing him a grade , despite the time missed because of his migrianes , He is getting a wonderfull education , while my daughter is getting swept out of the system ....... Talk about a storm of mixed emotions .......

[Spider]

Spider, take a trip to the local library. There are tons of books on homeschooling, there are also homeschooling magazines. Homeschooling is growing in popularity, so there are lots of resources out there, including internet schooling. Some of the best and brightest kids I have met are homeschooled. Just make sure your daughter has other outlets for social interaction - mucho importante! Best of luck to you..
Heading down there tomarrow , in fact it will be our first field trip ;D
I understand the importance of a social setting ..... one of my biggest concerns

[Spider]

Exactly.

And the wealthiest towns are always at the top. Then you get to see English and Math results by household income and by parents' education level, etc.

Actually, a few of the poorest cities were given X amount of time to get up to snuff or lose their accreditation as a learning institution.

Those places have to deal with so much more than the wealthy suburbs. For starters they are the biggest melting pot and have the largest number of language barrier issues to overcome. And basic survival is a higher priority than any quadratic equation.
They sure do , here in Casper it isnt so much that everyone is poor , it is more of the fact that we have the lowest payed teachers ....

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Can only wish you, your daughter and family the best Spider!
Maybe this site will have some info you can use.
http://homeschooling.about.com/cs/gettingstarted/a/gettingstarted.htm

I would imagine most support groups up there are faith based (based on working up there for over 20 years) which isn't always bad. I'm sure most would be happy to provide any information they have regardless of your religious beliefs.

Best of luck to you and your family!

[football idiot]

best of luck with homeschooling. it's a shame that the public education system is now incentivized to push kids that can't pass tests and make their statistics look good into 'special' programs. it's a crapshoot as it is.

is their a college nearby where you live? I'm sure you'll do fine for the time-being, but get some college student or grad-student to tutor or help in math or science, shouldn't cost you more than $10/hour a couple times a week.

I know in Ohio (my brother was homeschooled from 15-16 (couple years) and got his GED at 16 and never looked back. I don't think he has any regrets, although maybe he wishes he would've tried college a little more than he did...) anyway, in Ohio, a student has to be evaluated by a certified 'teacher' of some sort on an annual basis, and that teacher has to sign something that says the kid has learned 'as much or more' than they would've learned in school. of course, if they really want to label your child 'slow' or 'special', then you could probably make an exception to that policy, if there is a similar one in Colorado. sounds like she wouldn't learn much of anything in school, because she'd be written off and ignored, categorized in such a way so those 'great schools' can keep their statistics high and not lose their reputation as 'great schools'.

some people just aren't meant to succeed in the public school system. better your daughter is home-schooled and goes on to a great life, rather than suffer through being 'different' in a public school and end up going down the 'bad kid' route of rebellion, drug abuse, teen pregnancy, crime, and all that fun stuff.

again, good luck. if I lived anywhere nearby I'd offer to help. I enjoy teaching/working with teenagers, just can't afford to do it for a living....

and yes, there's plenty of books out there to help with all manner of home-schooling.

and if Colorado does require the annual teacher evaluation, I hope there's someone in the extended family/friend of family/neighbor category that you can count on to help you out. if not, find a teacher/retired teacher/etc. and start making friends....

[Spider]

I just got off the phone with some big wig on Education here , since my daughter is slow , there realy are no requirments on her , they just want me to turn in my curriculum once a year .........
From what he said more and more People that have kids like my daughter are home schooling their kids , and he expects even more kids t obe home schooled over the next few years . I asked him if that bothered him , he ingored my question .......
I go to his office on the 18th and start getting the ball rolling .......

[Spider]

best of luck with homeschooling. it's a shame that the public education system is now incentivized to push kids that can't pass tests and make their statistics look good into 'special' programs. it's a crapshoot as it is.

is their a college nearby where you live? I'm sure you'll do fine for the time-being, but get some college student or grad-student to tutor or help in math or science, shouldn't cost you more than $10/hour a couple times a week.

I know in Ohio (my brother was homeschooled from 15-16 (couple years) and got his GED at 16 and never looked back. I don't think he has any regrets, although maybe he wishes he would've tried college a little more than he did...) anyway, in Ohio, a student has to be evaluated by a certified 'teacher' of some sort on an annual basis, and that teacher has to sign something that says the kid has learned 'as much or more' than they would've learned in school. of course, if they really want to label your child 'slow' or 'special', then you could probably make an exception to that policy, if there is a similar one in Colorado. sounds like she wouldn't learn much of anything in school, because she'd be written off and ignored, categorized in such a way so those 'great schools' can keep their statistics high and not lose their reputation as 'great schools'.

some people just aren't meant to succeed in the public school system. better your daughter is home-schooled and goes on to a great life, rather than suffer through being 'different' in a public school and end up going down the 'bad kid' route of rebellion, drug abuse, teen pregnancy, crime, and all that fun stuff.

again, good luck. if I lived anywhere nearby I'd offer to help. I enjoy teaching/working with teenagers, just can't afford to do it for a living....

and yes, there's plenty of books out there to help with all manner of home-schooling.

and if Colorado does require the annual teacher evaluation, I hope there's someone in the extended family/friend of family/neighbor category that you can count on to help you out. if not, find a teacher/retired teacher/etc. and start making friends....
Wyoming doesnt require a teacher evaluation , Hell we had 3 IEP meetings since the start of the school year , and if the teachers dont meet the requirements ...... just ignore me I am just venting here ......

[alkemical]

Spider,

Being a libertarian, i often wonder why the need for state schools exist. I think that it should be charter schools. Then i think of needs that might not be met, or things that fall into the "how do i cover for this" type of plan.

I hope it works out for you though.

[Tredici]

Stuff like this makes my blood boil. Spider, do you, or do you not pay taxes? Do those taxes fund the public school systems? Do you then pay the salaries of the bureaucrats who don't seem to know who you are?

There have always been standardized tests. I bet everyone of you can remember taking them in certain grades.

Somewhere along the line someone got the bright idea of how to gauge a teacher's performance is by how students do on tests. So now the purpose of the tests aren't for your kids. They are to determine what part of the budget goes to teacher's raises. I will wholeheartedly agree teachers are underpaid. But this system does nothing to ferret out bad teachers. I think everyone is aware of who those people are without some arbitrary measurement so they can't be sued for not giving Mr. / Ms. Stupenheimer a salary increase.

I know an EXCELLENT teacher in Texas who quit because she couldn't teach curriculum to her fourth grade students. All she could do was emphasize areas of low scores in the TASS tests. She got in trouble for spending extra time with the kids who needed help - like with reading. She knew all it took to prevent them getting left behind was some extra help. So instead of rewarding good teachers, they get punished for trying to teach the kids more than memorizing a few answers so the test scores look good.

Find out what the real purpose of the test scores are. To see how well the children are doing or to create some type of metrics to grade teachers?

I swear every time people try to fix one problem (instead of just addressing the individuals who are the problem) they create ten other ones.

And what happened to Special Education classes? It hurt a kid's self esteem? Everyone I know who went to those classes survived. But I wonder about the kids who are being "main streamed" and then just left out when they fail.

Boy, Spider. You sure did make me MAD.

Best of luck to you and your daughter.

[Spider]

Spider,

Being a libertarian, i often wonder why the need for state schools exist. I think that it should be charter schools. Then i think of needs that might not be met, or things that fall into the "how do i cover for this" type of plan.

I hope it works out for you though.
Thanks ...... I wonder if taking her to disneyland would be a reimbursed field trip ;D ?

[alkemical]

hehe

[Spider]

Stuff like this makes my blood boil. Spider, do you, or do you not pay taxes? Do those taxes fund the public school systems? Do you then pay the salaries of the bureaucrats who don't seem to know who you are? Yes I do pay taxes , I pay alot of taxes on property . It goes for the School system . oh well .......

There have always been standardized tests. I bet everyone of you can remember taking them in certain grades.
No.2 lead pencil only ;D

Somewhere along the line someone got the bright idea of how to gauge a teacher's performance is by how students do on tests. So now the purpose of the tests aren't for your kids. They are to determine what part of the budget goes to teacher's raises. I will wholeheartedly agree teacher's are underpaid. But this system does nothing to ferret out bad teachers. I think everyone is aware of who those people are without some arbitrary measurement so they can't be sued for not giving Mr. / Ms. Stupenheimer a salary increase.
We lost Mrs. Lynn and several other Teachers over this ......

I know an EXCELLENT teacher in Texas who quit because she couldn't teach curriculum to her fourth grade students. All she could do was emphasize areas of low scores in theTASS tests. She got in trouble for spending extra time with the kids who needed help - like with reading. She knew all it took to prevent them getting left behind was some extra help. So instead of rewarding good teachers, they get punished for trying to teach the kids more than memorizing a few answers so the test scores look good.
I agree 100% ...... I wish there was somthing we could do ......

Find out what the real purpose of the test scores are. To see how well the children are doing or to create some type of metrics to grade teachers?

I swear every time people try to fix one problem (instead of just addressing the individuals who are the problem) they create ten other ones.

And what happened to Special Education classes? It hurt a kid's self esteem? Everyone I know who went to those classes survived. But I wonder about the kids who are being "main streamed" and then just left out when they fail.
Yeah my daughter said to me , Dad if I wasnt so stupid , i could be in School huh ......

Boy, Spider. You sure did make me MAD. Sorry ;D

Best of luck to you and your daughter.
Thanks we will need it ....

[Rock Chalk]

My daughter was in Jr. High so
I am not sure about this program or if she is old enough , I will look into it .....
Problem is they say my daughter cant realy be educated , I say she can be , you just have to go at a much slower pace , she learns things in a different way ...Doesnt make her stupid , just different ....My son excells in a social setting he is outgoing friendly , and sticks up for kids like his sister . What puzzels me is this is recent developement, in my daughters education , she was always a step behind , but we never encountered this problem to this degree ..... Natrona county is a school of choice , means we can send our kids to any school we wish in natrona county , so far this week I have checked out all of the schools , and every one of them are worried about some test the students can pass in order for the School to get money ....
I am not smart enough to teach kids , but I have no choice , I am cracking books right now ......

Spider, I dont know what your financial situation is, but my little brother had a problem like your daughter and my parents enrolled him in Sylvan Learning Center. They teach kids how to learn. They dont really teach them book stuff, but they teach the kids how to absorb the knowledge that is being taught to them regardless of the style the teacher uses. If you can, I highly recommend it because my little brother went from horrendous to terrific grades in just one semester.

Id also go check and see if she has a learning disorder. These things are OFTEN unnoticed by teachers and most children who fall behind are chalked up as "the ones that got away" instead of focusinrg on the problems that may really be lying underneath.

For example, a friend of mine had dyslexia as a child. Not the common backwards type of dyslexia you always hear about, but a contextual dyslexia where the context of words were taken in the wrong order. Questions on tests were difficult for him to understand. When he was 8 his parents took him to a specialist and he was diagnosed with it...which went completely unnoticed by any faculty at his school. The specialist told his parents that this was more common than most believed and that its even more common that these children are left to their own devices without getting any real qualitative help for their disorder.

It is unfortunate that our public system can't help and recognize everyone. Fortunately there are other options and if I were you Spider, I would seriously think about looking into alternative methods of education instead of homeschooling. Not because you cant teach kids, but because the time and patience to do what might need to be done is beyond your's, or most people's, capabilities. Take her to a learning specialist and if you can swing it, enroll her in Sylvan (if one is nearby) because you will drastically see improvement in her education.

My two cents.

[Spider]

Spider, I dont know what your financial situation is, but my little brother had a problem like your daughter and my parents enrolled him in Sylvan Learning Center. They teach kids how to learn. They dont really teach them book stuff, but they teach the kids how to absorb the knowledge that is being taught to them regardless of the style the teacher uses. If you can, I highly recommend it because my little brother went from horrendous to terrific grades in just one semester.
We dont have a Sylvans here ....
Id also go check and see if she has a learning disorder. These things are OFTEN unnoticed by teachers and most children who fall behind are chalked up as "the ones that got away" instead of focusinrg on the problems that may really be lying underneath.
We expolred several test at her first I.E.P. , Those test said that she did have a learning disablity , the School knew this and understood this before we enrolled her , they told us they could meet her needs ..... She learns , but at a much slower rate , and she has a hard time retaining what she learns , What I found that works is relate it to cooking , she loves to cook ;D .....


It is unfortunate that our public system can't help and recognize everyone. Fortunately there are other options and if I were you Spider, I would seriously think about looking into alternative methods of education instead of homeschooling. Not because you cant teach kids, but because the time and patience to do what might need to be done is beyond your's, or most people's, capabilities. Take her to a learning specialist and if you can swing it, enroll her in Sylvan (if one is nearby) because you will drastically see improvement in her education.

My two cents.
I agree 100% I will have to learn just like she is , I will have to learn tolerence , patience , and a deep understanding , I know this wont be easy , but living in Wyoming , I have limited options , I have exhausted every option , but sending her out of state , that isnt an option ........ The responciblity for her education falls back onto me , I brought her into this world , and in the end it is up to me to make sure she is ready for life when she turns 18 ..... I shall do my best in this task ...... Thanks for your support and helpng Alec ...

[Rock Chalk]

Spider, if she is having trouble retaining knowledge, there is an EASY fix around that.

Hear.Write.Read.

If you hear something, an hour later you retain less than half of that information.

If you hear something then write it, you will retain about 3/4ths of that information after an hour.

If you hear something, write it and then re-read it you will retain about 90% of that information.

The problem is that most schools do not teach that and you really dont learn that info until you get to college and take a speech class. It should be common teaching practice, lecture, have the kids WRITE IT and then READ IT afterwards because they ALL will retain that knowledge.

And yes, relating information to something that the child has interest in is a great teaching method so if you do homeschool her, make sure you do that. Teach her how to take notes, how to study, these are the two most important skills she will need in her later education. The knowledge isn't really as important to learn provided she has the methods of learning knowledge on her own and retaining that knowledge. This is what we do in life. These are highly valuable skills that we do not teach children and we should be so make sure you teach her that.

If you dont know how to take notes, learn, because she will need to know.

[Spider]

Spider, if she is having trouble retaining knowledge, there is an EASY fix around that.

Hear.Write.Read.

If you hear something, an hour later you retain less than half of that information.

If you hear something then write it, you will retain about 3/4ths of that information after an hour.

If you hear something, write it and then re-read it you will retain about 90% of that information.
Thanks Alec , I didnt think of that , but it makes sense .....


The problem is that most schools do not teach that and you really dont learn that info until you get to college and take a speech class. It should be common teaching practice, lecture, have the kids WRITE IT and then READ IT afterwards because they ALL will retain that knowledge.

And yes, relating information to something that the child has interest in is a great teaching method so if you do homeschool her, make sure you do that. Teach her how to take notes, how to study, these are the two most important skills she will need in her later education. The knowledge isn't really as important to learn provided she has the methods of learning knowledge on her own and retaining that knowledge. This is what we do in life. These are highly valuable skills that we do not teach children and we should be so make sure you teach her that.

If you dont know how to take notes, learn, because she will need to know.
Alec , I am cramming myself , I will be learning also . My goal is to have my Daughter pass wycas ..... it is a realistic goal , and together me and her can reach it ... I will need alot of help , from alot of people ..... right now I am not a proud man , I have alot to learn myself , me teaching anyone is a joke . This will be a true test for me ........

[Rock Chalk]

If you ever need any help Spider, drop me a PM. If I dont know it I will find it and give you plenty of resources to backup the information I send you.

[Spider]

If you ever need any help Spider, drop me a PM. If I dont know it I will find it and give you plenty of resources to backup the information I send you.
Thanks bro, I will be needing a life line ;D

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

"No child left behind" indeed.

Yo bro:

Is moving to some community that has an alternative school an option?

In any event, best of luck to you.

[Tredici]

Spider, Alec is 100% correct when it comes to diagnosing and understanding "learning disorders" which is a poor way of saying some people's brains function differently than others.

A friend of mine has a son who couldn't cope in school. While he is an obviously bright kid reading and spelling were a gigantic obstacle. He was put in Slyvan and after 60 days when re-tested not much better than when he started with them, Slyvan told my friend there was some other type of problem.

They live in Houston and went to Texas Children's Hospital. After undergoing a series of tests they discovered exactly how his brain processed the written word. Now they put some extra effort into how words are presented to him and he is learning fine.

If you don't have a Children's Hospital there in Casper, it wouldn't be too long of trip to take your girl to Denver. I know it can take a while to even get an appointment. But it would be well worth it. You would discover exactly how she processes information and that would make the teaching process easier.

It's amazing what they can figure out these days. There really isn't a reason for any child to get left behind.

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

Spider, Alec is 100% correct when it comes to diagnosing and understanding "learning disorders" which is a poor way of saying some people's brains function differently than others.

A friend of mine has a son who couldn't cope in school. While he is an obviously bright kid reading and spelling were a gigantic obstacle. He was put in Slyvan and after 60 days when re-tested not much better than when he started with them, Slyvan told my friend there was some other type of problem.

They live in Houston and went to Texas Children's Hospital. After undergoing a series of tests they discovered exactly how his brain processed the written word. Now they put some extra effort into how words are presented to him and he is learning fine.

If you don't have a Children's Hospital there in Casper, it wouldn't be too long of trip to take your girl to Denver. I know it can take a while to even get an appointment. But it would be well worth it. You would discover exactly how she processes information and that would make the teaching process easier.

It's amazing what they can figure out these days. There really isn't a reason for any child to get left behind.

Good Idea

Childrens Hospital Main Number - 303-861-8888
ParentSmart Advice line - 303-861-0123

[Falconer]

Hey Spider,
I am appalled that they would do this to your daughter! This is how we treat our kids now days? To me this doesn't even sound legal. However, if this is the way they feel, they are probably not doing your daughter a service in the first place.

So now it is on to the more important question. What can we do for you to make your daughters educational experience a rewarding one? I feel confident from what I have read here that there are plenty of people here for you. I extend my services to you as well. I have a secondary education degree in Social Sciences, and I am working on my Masters in School Counseling. Please make use of all of the offers extended to you! I would also like to let everyone else know what kind of a guy you are Spider; I hope you do not mind.

Spider constantly checks up on my family to find out how Samuel is. He always offers an ear to my frustrations and sorrow. His encouragement and interest help me remain upbeat about our situation. One particular example I would like to share came not that long ago. I was telling him how we really down because we couldn't see how we could ever afford a house with Sam's medical expenses. Within minutes Spider asked for our address and said that he wanted to send Sam something for Christmas. A short time later a box showed up on our door that was filled with Bronco clothes, regular clothes, and toys for our little boy. My wife and I were brought to tears by his family's generosity.

I would like you to know that there is not anything that your daughter should do without. I mean this to not only offer my services, but if there is something you need and cannot afford, ask us and we will come through for you. I promise you this!

[PatsWin2002]

Awesome story, Falconer. When you first came here I told you that people genuinely cared about each other here.

Glad to see I wasn't wrong. :)

[Spider]

To everyone thanks for the life lines , I will be using them as much as possible again thanks ......
Right now we are starting out slow so I have a compass of what level she is on as far as reading , math , history , social studys geography .
We just got back from the libary , not a bad bit of work for the first day ......
to Tred , I have had my daughter in Childrens more then once .....

[Mtbrncofn]

Hey Spider,
I am appalled that they would do this to your daughter! This is how we treat our kids now days? To me this doesn't even sound legal. However, if this is the way they feel, they are probably not doing your daughter a service in the first place.

So now it is on to the more important question. What can we do for you to make your daughters educational experience a rewarding one? I feel confident from what I have read here that there are plenty of people here for you. I extend my services to you as well. I have a secondary education degree in Social Sciences, and I am working on my Masters in School Counseling. Please make use of all of the offers extended to you! I would also like to let everyone else know what kind of a guy you are Spider; I hope you do not mind.

Spider constantly checks up on my family to find out how Samuel is. He always offers an ear to my frustrations and sorrow. His encouragement and interest help me remain upbeat about our situation. One particular example I would like to share came not that long ago. I was telling him how we really down because we couldn't see how we could ever afford a house with Sam's medical expenses. Within minutes Spider asked for our address and said that he wanted to send Sam something for Christmas. A short time later a box showed up on our door that was filled with Bronco clothes, regular clothes, and toys for our little boy. My wife and I were brought to tears by his family's generosity.

I would like you to know that there is not anything that your daughter should do without. I mean this to not only offer my services, but if there is something you need and cannot afford, ask us and we will come through for you. I promise you this!

I have known Spider for over 3 years now and have always known he has a big heart and is really a softie, despite his penchant for great smack. (Although I see that as a plus too. :) ) What a great story. That just reinforces my belief of what a good guy he is.

I'm proud to count you as a friend, Spide.

[Spider]

I have known Spider for over 3 years now and have always known he has a big heart and is really a softie, despite his penchant for great smack. (Although I see that as a plus too. :) ) What a great story. That just reinforces my belief of what a good guy he is.

I'm proud to count you as a friend, Spide.
;D thanks , but dont tell everyone , dont need to give errand any ammo ;D

[Mtbrncofn]

Even errand would have to give you props on that one.

[Spider]

Even errand would have to give you props on that one.
;D Errand wouldnt , after all Samuel doesnt fit into errands world ..... you know not being able to stand on his own 2 feet ........ Errand has a very narrow view on Peoples worth .....

[Mtbrncofn]

;D Errand wouldnt , after all Samuel doesnt fit into errands world ..... you know not being able to stand on his own 2 feet ........ Errand has a very narrow view on Peoples worth .....


Yikes! Ok, I don't really know errand, but I assumed even the coldest hearted people out there would get a tinge of warmth from that story.

Btw, how is Colton doing these days? And how old is he now?

[Spider]

Yikes! Ok, I don't really know errand, but I assumed even the coldest hearted people out there would get a tinge of warmth from that story.

Btw, how is Colton doing these days? And how old is he now?
;D Colten is 3 now , and he has turned the corner , Kid is talking up a storm , and getting into things ... ;D he is a 1 man wrecking crew , I took him with me to fix some plumming , and while I wasnt paying attention , he decided that Make up looked good on a bathroom wall .........

[Mtbrncofn]

;D Colten is 3 now , and he has turned the corner , Kid is talking up a storm , and getting into things ... ;D he is a 1 man wrecking crew , I took him with me to fix some plumming , and while I wasnt paying attention , he decided that Make up looked good on a bathroom wall .........

LOL Yep, that sounds like par for the course. Glad to hear he is doing ok. I've meant to ask you a lot of times and just never got around to it.

[No1BroncoFan]

Yeah my daughter said to me , Dad if I wasnt so stupid , i could be in School huh ......
Spider, you're way too patient with these f*ckwads! Any government lacky ever makes my kids say something like that about themselves, he'd better find a deep dark hole to hide in. I'm not much of a believer in the "warm fuzzy" method of teaching, but dumping on a kid, a kid for God's sake, until they begin to think of themselves as stupid is just pure bullsh*t!

Ben

[alkemical]

it's funny, i read that quote spider...

and i took it as If I wasn't SO STUPID, i could be in school - as in those who are in school are dumb :)

[bendog]

Spider, call your Protection and Advocacy Program. I linked the 800 number above. I have no idea what your daughter's condiditon is, but she's obviously not stupid ... and no child should be taught that he or she is. There's got to be a psychologist or children's clinic somewhere in Casper or Cheyenne that can test her and reach some conclusion as to her learning difficulties. I certainly wouldn't trust the school at this pt to do anything.

Financially, as I recall, the school has some responisbility to pay for an independent evaluation. the P&A people should be able to tell you about this, though, if she's no longer enrolled ..... I dunno. I used to get kids on SSI through the social security administration, which made them eligible for medicaid. I sort of doubt your daughter will fit the criteria - it was sort of a chinese laundry list thing where you needed diagnosis that would fit the soc sec criteria - but you outta check that out too, cause medicaid will pay for psychological stuff.

(my last hearing: Judge, "and what did you client evidence making you think he has a psychological or learning disorder?" "He set himself on fire, Judge" )

[Spider]

I just got back from the school and her records ...... Her test scores are real low .... I mean low , They suggested that I get ahold of a Doctor and set up some test .....

[bendog]

Well, one thing I do know, even though I've been out of the area professionally for going on 8 years: No child left behind has put pressure on schools to test ALL children, including those in special education and learning disability programs.

(Typically, kids with a learning disability do not fit as many of the objective criteria that are needed to be ruled/labled, choose your own term, for special ed. Spec ed typically brings some additionally federal/state funding to a school)

No child left behind puts pressure on schools to get test scores UP, so obviously it's not in their interest to bring the scores down with kids who don't do well on objective tests.

That's not meant as a political/value judgment. Some special ed parents WANT their kids tested, because they feel that not testing them let schools not educate them. Some minority group parents object to tests as being culturally biased. It's a minefield, and I don't want to discuss the politics. But, there's an obvious disadvantage to a school to serve a kid who isn't going to do well on objective tests. Assuming your daughter has any problem reading at grade level or processing written material, she isn't going to test well - REGARDLESS of what she knows or how smart she is. EDISON flunked out cause he has a learning disability.

But, the fact that your daughter scored low, isn't necessarily because she is "stupid." Your P&A system should know where testing is done and how it can be paid for. You definitely should utilize all resources you are entitled to cause you're a taxpayer before using your own insurance or money.

[Spider]

Well, one thing I do know, even though I've been out of the area professionally for going on 8 years: No child left behind has put pressure on schools to test ALL children, including those in special education and learning disability programs.

(Typically, kids with a learning disability do not fit as many of the objective criteria that are needed to be ruled/labled, choose your own term, for special ed. Spec ed typically brings some additionally federal/state funding to a school)

No child left behind puts pressure on schools to get test scores UP, so obviously it's not in their interest to bring the scores down with kids who don't do well on objective tests.

That's not meant as a political/value judgment. Some special ed parents WANT their kids tested, because they feel that not testing them let schools not educate them. Some minority group parents object to tests as being culturally biased. It's a minefield, and I don't want to discuss the politics. But, there's an obvious disadvantage to a school to serve a kid who isn't going to do well on objective tests. Assuming your daughter has any problem reading at grade level or processing written material, she isn't going to test well - REGARDLESS of what she knows or how smart she is. EDISON flunked out cause he has a learning disability.

But, the fact that your daughter scored low, isn't necessarily because she is "stupid." Your P&A system should know where testing is done and how it can be paid for. You definitely should utilize all resources you are entitled to cause you're a taxpayer before using your own insurance or money.

Thanks Bro , we just sat up a meeting for tuesday with a psychiatrist , She is no where near grade level , what pisses me off , is they knew of a problem , back in Grade school , and they was able to get her not par with the rest of the class , but close , but since she went to jr. High , it has all gone to hell in a handbasket ... Maybe the change of the social structure was too much on her , Like me and a rep from the school board talked about , maybe home schooling is the best option for her right now , maybe she will be more receptive to learning where she feels the most comfortable ....

[bendog]

yeah, well, she's gotta have a self-esteem issue now, the ........()*_)*_))wads.

I wish ya luck man, but I'd think Casper would have some resources for her. Give me a private email when you hear some stuff. My across the street neighbors own and operate a private school specializing in kids with learning disablilities. If I know what her area of needs are, I'll ask the Mom or Daughter for some book or software titles for you to check out.

btw, on a wierdness level. These folks aren't professionals, though they employ professional educators. The mom's sister actually started the school prolly 30 years ago. The Mom and the Sister are driving back from Ala in their Cadillac, going about 80-85mph on I-20. Sister's in the passenger seat. Her purse is in the back seat. Cell phone in the purse rings. Sister unbuckles seat belt to get at purse. The car has a blowout. The Sister reaches to brace herself, but hits the door handle and opens the door and launches herself out of the car.

Maybe you don't want these people's help. LOL

But the Mom and Daughter inherited the school.

[Spider]

yeah, well, she's gotta have a self-esteem issue now, the ........()*_)*_))wads.

I wish ya luck man, but I'd think Casper would have some resources for her. Give me a private email when you hear some stuff. My across the street neighbors own and operate a private school specializing in kids with learning disablilities. If I know what her area of needs are, I'll ask the Mom or Daughter for some book or software titles for you to check out.

btw, on a wierdness level. These folks aren't professionals, though they employ professional educators. The mom's sister actually started the school prolly 30 years ago. The Mom and the Sister are driving back from Ala in their Cadillac, going about 80-85mph on I-20. Sister's in the passenger seat. Her purse is in the back seat. Cell phone in the purse rings. Sister unbuckles seat belt to get at purse. The car has a blowout. The Sister reaches to brace herself, but hits the door handle and opens the door and launches herself out of the car.

Maybe you don't want these people's help. LOL

But the Mom and Daughter inherited the school.

Hilarious! ....... I ordered a packet from Ebay ...... My wifes Friend ( Surgical Nurse , RN ) was a home schooler also , she has offered to help me out .... Gave me a few packets .Between here and her , we should have this covered ....

[Pezman]

Sorry to hear the news bro... Hope the homeschooling works!

[errand]

;D Errand wouldnt , after all Samuel doesnt fit into errands world ..... you know not being able to stand on his own 2 feet ........ Errand has a very narrow view on Peoples worth .....

Just because I think clowns like you need to get off your asses and find jobs and become productive citizens doesn't mean that I'm cruel and think the same thing about handicapped or disabled people/kids.

Yep spider....you got me figured out all right ???

I'm such a hardened person that I prayed for your brother's recovery after his accident.

And this was despite your poking fun at my personal loss of a sister and nephew to a drunk driver's stupidity...despite your constant insults and name-calling.....despite your bashing my belief in God despite all the nasty things you have said on here about me, I still put petty differences and personal attacks by you aside to pray for your brother....who you claimed needed them.

But does that invoke praise of me from you about having compassion for others?

No, instead you post that I don't care about Samuel ...when I've no clue as to who he is, or why he needs our prayers.

But guess what Spider? Being a Christian, I have prayed for Samuel....not knowing his situation or his problems.....it mattered not to me, someone asks me to pray for them....I pray for them.

Contrary to your posts about what, and who I care for or about, you got alot to learn about me, Spider.....because you honestly don't know me from Adam.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Errand wouldnt , after all Samuel doesnt fit into errands world ..... you know not being able to stand on his own 2 feet ........ Errand has a very narrow view on Peoples worth .....

True that is.

BTW, funny how those "pull yourself up by your own bootstraps" people (like errant) all seem to be from welfare queen southern states, eh?

[errand]

True that is.

BTW, funny how those "pull yourself up by your own bootstraps" people (like errant) all seem to be from welfare queen southern states, eh?

And funny that those who oppose people being self reliant are liberals like you who want to keep them on welfare, and people who are dependent on the government will ergo have to depend on you and your kind.....

You liberals measure your compassion by the number of people on welfare....we conservatives measure ours by the number of people who aren't.

[Tredici]

And funny that those who oppose people being self reliant are liberals like you who want to keep them on welfare, and people who are dependent on the government will ergo have to depend on you and your kind.....

You liberals measure your compassion by the number of people on welfare....we conservatives measure ours by the number of people who aren't.

It's amazing how complex problems can be narrowed down into a couple of sentences telling someone else what they think. Such simple solutions! As soon as someone goes into these types of generalties there isn't any credibility to the argument.

I sincerely doubt any liberal or conservative is measuring compassion by the number of people on or off the welfare roles. Silly stuff, errand. Perfect for today's soundbite and spin mentality though. Trying to make people think statements of no substance actually mean something.

[Rock Chalk]

It's amazing how complex problems can be narrowed down into a couple of sentences telling someone else what they think. Such simple solutions! As soon as someone goes into these types of generalties there isn't any credibility to the argument.

I sincerely doubt any liberal or conservative is measuring compassion by the number of people on or off the welfare roles. Silly stuff, errand. Perfect for today's soundbite and spin mentality though. Trying to make people think statements of no substance actually mean something.

I suppose that you thought LABFs comments towards errand were right on then Deb?

Funny how you picked out errand's comments but said nothing to LABF on his idiocy.

Sometimes I wonder about you girl. I'd still marry you in a hearbeat though ;)

[Tredici]

You think I was interested enough to go back and read any but the last post once I found it had wandered off Spider's topic? Any broad statement like that gets the same reaction from me. Why people must align themselves with some tribe is pretty much a mystery to me. The majority of people have very similar viewpoints on most issues when it comes down to it. But you can't get there because of the people who have a need to invent the other side's viewpoint.

It's the main reason I avoid these discussions. Neither side offers anything of substance except their own bias.

As soon as I see an individual posting something so stupid as a declarative statement of what millions of people think there is no logic and therefore nothing to debate.

Just once I would love to see the type of exchange where someone simply asks the other person what they think instead of making broad generalizations there is absolutely no way to substantiate. Or, if you are going to go with a broad generalization then begin the sentence with the words I THINK. Take credit for your thoughts and narrow minded viewpoints. Don't feel compelled to drag everyone else along you assume wears your same liberal/conservative label.

Unless the point is just word games without any real substance. If that's the case, carry on...

[bendog]

Spider, I've seen 3 moms stuff around. I think they're sort of "big." Or well known.


Give me a message, and maybe even an email if you want citations to specific articles/books on specific strategies for specific learning disorders. I should still be able to find a special education professor or teacher who'd help out.

bendog1_04@yahoo.com

give me a heads up, as I no longer get email at work and check it irregularly at home.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Funny how you picked out errand's comments but said nothing to LABF on his idiocy.

Isn't that just like a reich-winger?

I stated a matter of fact, i.e., that most of the "bootstraps" people (like errant) live in the southern welfare queen states, and your only comeback is an ad hominem, i.e., "idiocy."

Anyway, I didn't want to make Spider's thread political, but I just couldn't let errant's crap slide by.