INSANE scene at Pacers Pistons game [Archive] - The Orange Mane

Circle Orange

11-20-2004, 01:33 AM

Unbelievable. A shaken Jim Gray was explaining how the incident started...One of the Pacers players was resting on the bench. A fan threw a bottle, and a near riot started. Players were taunted, and fans came out of the stands and down on the court, punching players and fighting. Stuff was thrown everywhere like a frat house. So far none of the Pacers will be fined, and supposedly there will be an investigation.

There was plenty of security on site, and they got pelted too as the Pacer players were escorted out.

Geez, what the hell's going on?! ???

bpc

11-20-2004, 01:52 AM

This seems to be getting worse and worse.

watermock

11-20-2004, 02:00 AM

Wait till the Vikings take over. Yeah, Bears, Lions and Meat Packers are formidable foes, but wait till we get that Credit Card Debt run up.

Bronco_Beerslug

11-20-2004, 06:12 AM

Garcia Bronco

11-20-2004, 06:27 AM

"You call this a soccer riot?! Let's show'em boys!"

-Willy

WoodMan

11-20-2004, 06:30 AM

chanesaw

11-20-2004, 06:33 AM

The fans got what they deserved, especially the ones that came onto the court. If the security can't protect the players then they have no choice but to defend themselves.

watermock

11-20-2004, 06:43 AM

It kinda reminded me of Iraq/Iran in the 80's.

Let attrition rule. The only thing missing was mass gassing by the imfamous Detroit Police/AKA terrorist squad.

Bronco_Beerslug

11-20-2004, 06:51 AM

The fans got what they deserved, especially the ones that came onto the court. If the security can't protect the players then they have no choice but to defend themselves.
Nope. Players can't go into the stands for ANY reason. On the court is another matter. Artest jumped up there and started punching anyone in his way. That's why players can't go into the stands. If the NBA can't provide the needed security then they are just as responsible.

Tombstone RJ

11-20-2004, 06:56 AM

I think that if the fans go on the court because security can't get them under control, then the players have every right to protect themsleves. However, I don't think players have the right to go up into the stands to attack someone who may or may not have any envolvement with the melee. Artest should not have gone up into the stands. Neither should any of the other Indiana Pacers. The NBA players have to understand that once they get off the court, and go up into the stands, security cannot protect them. If they stay on the court, security has a chance to get things under control with unruly fans....

Tredici

11-20-2004, 07:15 AM

The NBA is pure disgrace. ANYONE who goes to a game and supports this group of criminals is a bigger fool than I am. The last NBA game I watched live was the Nuggets. I walked out because of lack of effort by either team and screamed "I want my money back". You want flavbor clowns.... here is a whole fockin league of them. BOYCOTT the NBA

You are going to hurt RhymeSayer's sensibilities. He will soon be here to remind you the few can't be held responsible for the many.

Except in the case of Todd Bertuzzi....

:poke:

Bronco_Beerslug

11-20-2004, 07:19 AM

You are going to hurt RhymeSayer's sensibilities. He will soon be here to remind you the few can't be held responsible for the many.

Except in the case of Todd Bertuzzi....

:poke:
Thing is it seems the FEW in the NBA are the many.

DrFate

11-20-2004, 07:46 AM

Here's the thread ...http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?p=479257#post479257

Artest should be arrested for assualt. So should any other player that went into the stands and attacked people.

Bingo. Artest, Jackson, O'Neal - all are probably going to get something from the Detroit DA.

Just another reason why I don't watch the NBA anymore...

TheNextStep

11-20-2004, 08:19 AM

If Ron Artest ever plays another NBA Game, he gets off light.

-Slap-

11-20-2004, 08:26 AM

On the bright side, this should really help his rap career.

WoodMan

11-20-2004, 08:52 AM

Billy Clyde Puckett

11-20-2004, 09:19 AM

The NBA is pure disgrace. ANYONE who goes to a game and supports this group of criminals is a bigger fool than I am. The last NBA game I watched live was the Nuggets. I walked out because of lack of effort by either team and screamed "I want my money back". You want flavbor clowns.... here is a whole fockin league of them. BOYCOTT the NBA

Agree completely. The NBA has less credibility than the WWF. At least the WWF does not seriously pretend it is legitimate.

I played BB for years, but have not been to a pro game since the last all star game in Denver (1983??) and have not watched one on TV for probably 10 years.

Kid A

11-20-2004, 09:27 AM

Only in Detroit...
Guess the lack of hockey is finally getting to them.

-Slap-

11-20-2004, 09:31 AM

This would have been such a heart warming story if Rasheed Wallass had been accidentally killed in the melee.

chanesaw

11-20-2004, 09:42 AM

How would you guys feel if Raider fans were attacking the Broncos, and security couldn't stop them so the players defended themselves?

chanesaw

11-20-2004, 09:51 AM

Nope. Players can't go into the stands for ANY reason. On the court is another matter. Artest jumped up there and started punching anyone in his way. That's why players can't go into the stands. If the NBA can't provide the needed security then they are just as responsible.

So you would just let people throw glass containers at you and not do anything about it? I think we all would have done the same thing as Artest did.

RhymesayersDU

11-20-2004, 09:51 AM

You are going to hurt RhymeSayer's sensibilities. He will soon be here to remind you the few can't be held responsible for the many.

Except in the case of Todd Bertuzzi....

:poke:
I'll concede to you the point that Bertuzzi doesn't represent the NHL or the sport in general. I've been to a couple DU games, and while it doesn't excite me like the NFL or NBA, it isn't just a bunch of guys trying to kill each other, like I would have previously stereotyped it as. So, I will retract my previous statement, and for what it's worth, I hope you do get your sport back. If people out there want it, the NHL should figure out their problems and give the fans their sport back.

However, I just think the NBA is unfairly talked about (here at least) when the same exact things people use against the NBA happens in all the other sports. If you tell me that basketball isn't your thing, you don't like it, whatever, I can accept that. Not everybody is going to like every sport. Some people love baseball but don't really care for the NFL, for instance, which a lot of people might call crazy. But I just think that people talk about basketball like it's a bunch of gang members, when the same exact stuff happens in the other sports too.

TheNextStep

11-20-2004, 09:53 AM

How would you guys feel if Raider fans were attacking the Broncos, and security couldn't stop them so the players defended themselves?
Oh, please... lets not overdramatize this in order to make a point because the fact is that nobody was attacking the Pacers until they ran up into the stands and started pummeling fans. It started because one dickhead threw a cup of ice. While that is certainly beyond the rules, it does not entitle the Pacers to jump into the stands and start wailing on people (especially since Artest assualted a guy who clearly did not throw said cup of ice). The appropriate response would have been for Artest to notify security and have the offending fan ejected from the arena. Artest chose not to do that. Instead, he raced into the stands and started throwing punches... and he was fully aware of the fact that he didn't even know if he had the right guy, considering that according to reports he was wailing away on the guy asking, "Did you throw it?"

TheNextStep

11-20-2004, 09:54 AM

So you would just let people throw glass containers at you and not do anything about it? I think we all would have done the same thing as Artest did.
It wasn't a glass container. It was a blue plastic cup. Even Ron Artest has stated that he was hit with a cup of ice.

Rulon Velvet Jones

11-20-2004, 10:03 AM

Jimmy Kimmel was right...just a few months off, that's all.

Billy Clyde Puckett

11-20-2004, 10:13 AM

Only in Detroit...
Guess the lack of hockey is finally getting to them.

And Philly, and Washington, and Memphis, and Indy, and LA, and Portland, and Seattle and Denver and ...............

The pro BB game is a joke. flava clowns and refs that determine the outcome. Pure BS.

orinjkrush

11-20-2004, 10:14 AM

just more of a breakdown in civility, social responsibility and ethics. NHL, NBA its all the same. we glorify violence, what else should we expect? Go ahead, make my day.

Any city in America becomes Fallujah the night they win a championship in some sport. Turn out the lights for 8 hours and its time to go rape, pillage and sack the city.

As long as we let hoods become star athletes and vice versa (read Ray Lewis) we get what we deserve.

The only safe way to watch a sporting event is at home on pay per view. Locked and loaded.

Lmao.

missingnumber7

11-20-2004, 10:30 AM

I watched the whole 4 hour saga on ESPN and I think pretty much my take on it was that security didn't do their job. From the time the Artest fouled Wallace there were things being thrown, you just have to watch carefully. And there was no security there. Then when the fan comes onto the court, watch at the guy in the blue shirt pretty much points the fat guy in the wallace jersey towards Artest. Then the cop was going to pepper spray artest. I thought that the authorities were there to protect the players while they were on the court. Here one of Detroits finest was going to pepperspray a player that was on the court. Then to add to that the joke of a making their way down the tunnel. I would've just sat down on the court until they cleared a path for me out. The Pistons as a franchise should pay just as much for this as the individual players do. But I think Detroit just wanted to show up MNF and TO.

Arkie

11-20-2004, 10:36 AM

The cop with the pepper spray was probably a Piston fan that takes great pleasure at the chance of spraying Artest.

RhymesayersDU

11-20-2004, 12:33 PM

ESPN.com

Artest, Jackson, O'Neal, Wallace = Suspended Indefinately

ZachKC

11-20-2004, 12:40 PM

Nope. Players can't go into the stands for ANY reason. On the court is another matter. Artest jumped up there and started punching anyone in his way. That's why players can't go into the stands. If the NBA can't provide the needed security then they are just as responsible.
So in your mind it is justifiable for someone that goes to a game to throw things at players...

Bronco_Beerslug

11-20-2004, 12:49 PM

So in your mind it is justifiable for someone that goes to a game to throw things at players...
Did I say that? What kind of idiot remark is that?

---------------------------------------
NBA Suspends 3 Pacers, 1 Piston for Brawl
y CHRIS SHERIDAN, AP Basketball Writer

NEW YORK - The NBA suspended four players indefinitely Saturday for their roles in one of the worst-ever brawls in the league, a fight with fans that commissioner David Stern called "shocking, repulsive and inexcusable." Indiana's Ron Artest, Jermaine O'Neal and Stephen Jackson and Detroit's Ben Wallace were suspended, the NBA said Saturday.

"This demonstrates why our players must not enter the stands, whatever the provocation or poisonous behavior of people attending the games," Stern said.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=4&u=/ap/20041120/ap_on_sp_bk_ne/bkn_pacers_pistons_brawl

Mediator12

11-20-2004, 01:23 PM

After reviewing the tape of this assault, I've come to the conclusion that a stint in jail is probably appropriate punishment for the Pacer players involved. Artest, Germaine O Neil, and an unidentified player or two are the scum of the earth and should be banned. Germaine Oneil had better be very wary of jail, as even with a 5 yard running start he couldn't knock out that Pillsbury dough boy, who was on the court. He is going to be an awfully easy mark in jail. Probably a pass-around whore.

Either way, I won't watch the NBA, or support it in any way. Let the Flavor Clowns starve!

Wow! Glad none of you guys are judges :laugh:

First of all, No player in any sport has the right to leave the court and go into the stands. Period.

Second, the NBA has taken the final step in merging with the WWE in my mind. I agree that the NBA has just escalated into pure crap and basketball is not a part of the league just selfish one on one. It is no longer a team sport.

Third, The fan who threw the beer should be charged with assault w/ a Deadly weapon. A beer bottle to the back of the head could seriously injure or Kill someone. The DA should have a field day with him in court.

Fourth, it will be hard to convict Artest of any criminal charges since he was technically "provoked" into defending himself. If he thought he was in further danger, which his Lawyer will argue, then he is justified into confronting his attacker no matter if he left the court to get him. That being said, see number one. The NBA will have to suspend him for awhile, 5-10 games probably.

Fifth, Jermaine O'Neal and Stephen Jackson had no reason to go into the stands. Protecting Artest is not a valid legal reason to jump into the fray. They could be in some legal trouble. Plus, the NBA should give them the harshest penalties.

Sixth, Ben Wallace started this mess. He will be punished somehow as well.

Jason in LA

11-20-2004, 01:30 PM

Blame and punishment has to go around. These players should be punished, but at the same time every fan that had anything to do with this has to be punished. The NBA can't do it, but the law can. Even the fans that were pouring beer on the players as they left the floor. They should be punished too. That's assault. They should be banned from the arena for life, and pay large fines.

That fat guy with the Piston's jersey who approached Artest on the court got what was coming to him. What the hell was he thinking? Did he really think he was going to roll up on Artest and not get knocked out? Artest was wrong for going into the stands and fighting, but he was totally right for punching that guy out. It wasn't self defense when he was in the stands, but when he was on the court it was. That Piston fan didn't approach him for an autograph. Artest hit him before the fat guy could get off a swing.

azbroncfan

11-20-2004, 01:43 PM

I'm not going to lie. I'd like to get a shot in on Artest. I thoroughly enjoyed the brawl. It was a hell of a lot more entertaining than the game. NBA is complete trash now and if they are going to glorify thugs then let them be thugs.

TomServo

11-20-2004, 02:20 PM

i found the brawl to be the most entertaining thing to happen at a pro bb game since the 80's. thats the last time i even watched the sport.

since when is getting soaked with beer or pelted with some ice or popcorn a threat to bodily harm? since when is going into the stands and pummeling an innocent man "protecting yourself"? when did a plastic cup turn into a glass bottle? just try smuggling a glass or metal container into any sports event and see what happens to you.

these athletes are out of control and no one NO ONE is going to shut the tap off when there is money to be lost. just look at the other brawl in football today. what do you think would happen to any us regular ppl if we ignored and shoved a state trooper?

TheNextStep

11-20-2004, 04:09 PM

Third, The fan who threw the beer should be charged with assault w/ a Deadly weapon. A beer bottle to the back of the head could seriously injure or Kill someone. The DA should have a field day with him in court.

It wasn't a beer bottle. It was a blue plastic cup.

Jason in LA

11-20-2004, 04:38 PM

since when is getting soaked with beer or pelted with some ice or popcorn a threat to bodily harm? since when is going into the stands and pummeling an innocent man "protecting yourself"? when did a plastic cup turn into a glass bottle? just try smuggling a glass or metal container into any sports event and see what happens to you.

these athletes are out of control and no one NO ONE is going to shut the tap off when there is money to be lost. just look at the other brawl in football today. what do you think would happen to any us regular ppl if we ignored and shoved a state trooper?

The problem is that they don't know if it's only going to be beer and popcorn cups. Somebody could get a hold of something harder and throw it.

Were those athletes out of control? Yeah they were, but so were the fans. Everybody should take equal blame in this.

chanesaw

11-20-2004, 04:40 PM

It looked like plastic to me too, but I think it said a glass container in one of the articles I read. I am too lazy to reread every article that I read about the subject, but know that at least one media outlet is reporting that it was glass.

TheNextStep

11-20-2004, 04:51 PM

I haven't seen anything that reported it as a glass bottle and I read somewhere (like you, I'm not going to re-read everything) that even Artest has said it was a cup of ice.

The initial skirmish wasn't all that bad, with Artest retreating to the scorer's table and lying atop it after Wallace sent him reeling backward.

But when a fan tossed a cup at Artest, he stormed into the stands, throwing punches as he climbed over seats.

"He was on top of me, pummeling me," fan Mike Ryan of Clarkston said. "He asked me, 'Did you do it? I said, 'No, man. No!"'

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=1927663

Spider

11-20-2004, 05:26 PM

I just saw the video , normaly I wouldnt give Basket Ball a second look , but since there was some punching I took alook at the Video ........... I have no dog in this hunt , here is my View .....Wallace is a Prick , the Refs Suck , Artest is an asshole , and a Fan wasted $5.00 to throw his drink ..........

Bronco_Beerslug

11-20-2004, 06:33 PM

Wow! Glad none of you guys are judges :laugh:

First of all, No player in any sport has the right to leave the court and go into the stands. Period.

Yep

Second, the NBA has taken the final step in merging with the WWE in my mind. I agree that the NBA has just escalated into pure crap and basketball is not a part of the league just selfish one on one. It is no longer a team sport.

Third, The fan who threw the beer should be charged with assault w/ a Deadly weapon. A beer bottle to the back of the head could seriously injure or Kill someone. The DA should have a field day with him in court.

If you're talking about the initial projectile thrown at Artest while he was sprawled out on the scorers table, it was a paper cup of ice. Every state has laws on throwing anything onto the field of play so that is what the fans will be charged under.

Fourth, it will be hard to convict Artest of any criminal charges since he was technically "provoked" into defending himself. If he thought he was in further danger, which his Lawyer will argue, then he is justified into confronting his attacker no matter if he left the court to get him. That being said, see number one. The NBA will have to suspend him for awhile, 5-10 games probably.

Who was his attacker? He sure didn't know. Artest attacked fans who he wasn't sure threw anything or not. That is assault.

Fifth, Jermaine O'Neal and Stephen Jackson had no reason to go into the stands. Protecting Artest is not a valid legal reason to jump into the fray. They could be in some legal trouble. Plus, the NBA should give them the harshest penalties.

Artest gets charged and receives the longest suspension.

Sixth, Ben Wallace started this mess. He will be punished somehow as well.

Actually, Artest gets the credit here as well when he hit Wallace in the back of the head on a foul in a game that was inside a minute and already lost for the Pacers.

Bronco LB 59

11-20-2004, 07:21 PM

RhymesayersDU

11-20-2004, 09:00 PM

From what I read on another board. I don't have any ESPN links or anything, so take it for what it's worth.

Artest: 30 games
Jackson, O'Neal: 20 Games
Wallace: 5 Games

orinjkrush

11-21-2004, 05:59 AM

How about:

For aggravated Assault and Battery

Artest: 3-5 years; out in 2
Jackson, O'Neal: 1-2 years; out in 1
Wallace: Suspended sentence with parole.

Ratboy

11-21-2004, 06:29 AM

This was ridiculous!! i dont even wanna start.

These thugs need a large fine and a long suspension. you are a professional basketball player, be professional about it and not act like thugs, do that on your own time.

Ratboy

11-21-2004, 06:31 AM

How about:

For aggravated Assault and Battery

Artest: 3-5 years; out in 2
Jackson, O'Neal: 1-2 years; out in 1
Wallace: Suspended sentence with parole.

That sounds about right.

KcMizzou

11-22-2004, 01:45 AM

Artest should get a one year suspension. In fact, I think he's already burned all his bridges and he should be banned from the Association. O'Neal and Jackson should get between ten to twenty games. David Stern needs to stomp his foot down and set a strong example. This was the ugliest incident in the NBA's near 60 year history. Well, Stern certainly put his foot down. IMO the fans involved need to be punished too, although I don't know how you'd go about doing that.

If you can't behave yourself at a sporting event, you don't deserve to go. I, for one, have never even thought about throwing things onto a court or a field. (let alone a player) Jimmy Kimmel was right about Detroit.