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Bronco_Beerslug
10-23-2004, 07:10 PM
Commentary...

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Tom Maertens: Trust that Bush won't bring back the draft? Bad idea
Tom Maertens
October 22, 2004 MAERTENS1022
In a recent Newsweek poll, 38 percent of respondents thought President Bush would reinstitute the draft if reelected. In a Time poll, 42 percent expected a draft. Both polls were taken before John Kerry raised the issue.

The president has adamantly denied the draft story. He has even asserted that reelecting him is the best way to prevent a new draft. Bush is speaking out of both sides of his mouth on the issue, however: He portrays himself as more intent on prosecuting the war in Iraq than Kerry, which would logically make a draft more likely.

Are Bush's campaign promises credible?

In the 2000 campaign George W. Bush said that he would support allowing Americans to buy prescription drugs from Canada, he would not raid the Social Security Trust Fund, and he would veto temporary storage of nuclear waste at Yucca Mountain. He broke all three promises.

In the same campaign Bush said that he would not only balance the budget but pay down a record amount on the national debt. He also claimed he opposed government intervention regarding same-sex marriage. He said the nation would have a $5.6 trillion surplus and that he would have a humble foreign policy. Does anybody remember those whoppers?

In the 2000 campaign, Bush said that he opposed nation-building, that he would end partisan bickering in Washington, and he blamed Bill Clinton for high oil prices. Whom would he blame for $55-per-barrel oil today?

Now Bush says that he plans to fight the war in Iraq with an all-volunteer force. This sounds like a faith-based, or maybe hope-based, policy.

It's common knowledge there aren't enough troops to maintain security in Iraq, much less to reverse the military deterioration. Two-thirds of U.S. servicemen polled by the Annenberg Public Policy Center recently said they believed President Bush "had underestimated the number of troops needed in Iraq." In other words, count on more troops -- after the election.

The Army has 33 combat brigades. Typically, two-thirds are stationed in the States and one-third overseas. Because of Iraq the situation is reversed and two-thirds are now stationed outside the country. All have been rotated into combat in Iraq or Afghanistan at least once, and some have served two tours there already. Reserve and National Guard units have been used to make up the shortfall, constituting almost 40 percent of the troops on the ground at present.

The manpower shortage is sufficiently acute that thousands of Guard and Reserve soldiers have been prevented from leaving the supposedly all-volunteer force when their enlistments are up. This is a "back-door draft," the administration's stopgap solution, at least until after the election.

Such coercive policies, predictably, are driving retention rates down. This makes a draft even more likely. The Army Research Institute projects that only 27 percent of Guard and Reserve soldiers intend to reenlist -- an all-time low. The Army National Guard fell nearly 10 percent short of its 2004 recruiting goal of 56,000 enlistees. In addition, many former soldiers mobilized under a special program have refused to report; they've been to Iraq and don't want to go back. The pool of young people who have committed to join the Army next year is only 18 percent of the total required.

The United States maintains troops in 130 countries, including 146,000 combat troops in Iraq and 9,000 in Afghanistan.

We also have 119,00 military personnel in Europe, 43,000 in Japan, 37,000 in Korea and other forces elsewhere. To maintain these commitments while continuing to rotate troops out of Iraq every 12 months stretches our forces to the limit. The present level of combat in Iraq is unsustainable with our current forces.

Maybe Bush sees a light at the end of the tunnel.

The head of the Selective Service told CBS News that he could start drafting people quickly. "I think we could do it in less than six months if we got the call," said Selective Service Director Jack Martin.

Bush says there won't be a draft to fight the war in Iraq while he is president. Unfortunately, his credibility on Iraq is no better than his record on campaign statements.

Anyone who can read now knows that the administration's claims about WMD and about Saddam Hussein's ties to 9/11 and Al-Qaida were false. The assurances that we would be welcomed as liberators and could use Iraq's oil money to finance reconstruction were patently absurd. It is public knowledge that the administration used forged documents and phony intelligence to claim Saddam was pursuing nuclear material from Niger and specialty aluminum for centrifuges.

Vice President Dick Cheney continues to claim that Saddam protected Abu Nidal, supposedly proof he supported terrorists, even though Saddam had had Abu Nidal assassinated well before the U.S. invasion. To make the same point, the administration routinely claims that Abu Musab al-Zarqawi was working with Sadddam even though the evidence is that Al-Zarqawi came into Iraq after the invasion.

The administration's litany of misrepresentations and outright falsehoods on Iraq is so pervasive that nothing it says can be taken at face value.

Yes, George Bush says there will be no draft while he is president, but don't bet your life on it.
Tom Maertens' writing on national security issues can be seen at www.tommaertens.com.

patteeu
10-23-2004, 08:19 PM
Commentary...

-------------------------
Tom Maertens: Trust that Bush won't bring back the draft? Bad idea
Tom Maertens
October 22, 2004 MAERTENS1022
In a recent Newsweek poll, 38 percent of respondents thought President Bush would reinstitute the draft if reelected. In a Time poll, 42 percent expected a draft. Both polls were taken before John Kerry raised the issue.

The president has adamantly denied the draft story. He has even asserted that reelecting him is the best way to prevent a new draft. Bush is speaking out of both sides of his mouth on the issue, however: He portrays himself as more intent on prosecuting the war in Iraq than Kerry, which would logically make a draft more likely.

Are Bush's campaign promises credible?

In the 2000 campaign George W. Bush said that he would support allowing Americans to buy prescription drugs from Canada, he would not raid the Social Security Trust Fund, and he would veto temporary storage of nuclear waste at Yucca Mountain. He broke all three promises.

In the same campaign Bush said that he would not only balance the budget but pay down a record amount on the national debt. He also claimed he opposed government intervention regarding same-sex marriage. He said the nation would have a $5.6 trillion surplus and that he would have a humble foreign policy. Does anybody remember those whoppers?

In the 2000 campaign, Bush said that he opposed nation-building, that he would end partisan bickering in Washington, and he blamed Bill Clinton for high oil prices. Whom would he blame for $55-per-barrel oil today?

Now Bush says that he plans to fight the war in Iraq with an all-volunteer force. This sounds like a faith-based, or maybe hope-based, policy.

It's common knowledge there aren't enough troops to maintain security in Iraq, much less to reverse the military deterioration. Two-thirds of U.S. servicemen polled by the Annenberg Public Policy Center recently said they believed President Bush "had underestimated the number of troops needed in Iraq." In other words, count on more troops -- after the election.

The Army has 33 combat brigades. Typically, two-thirds are stationed in the States and one-third overseas. Because of Iraq the situation is reversed and two-thirds are now stationed outside the country. All have been rotated into combat in Iraq or Afghanistan at least once, and some have served two tours there already. Reserve and National Guard units have been used to make up the shortfall, constituting almost 40 percent of the troops on the ground at present.

The manpower shortage is sufficiently acute that thousands of Guard and Reserve soldiers have been prevented from leaving the supposedly all-volunteer force when their enlistments are up. This is a "back-door draft," the administration's stopgap solution, at least until after the election.

Such coercive policies, predictably, are driving retention rates down. This makes a draft even more likely. The Army Research Institute projects that only 27 percent of Guard and Reserve soldiers intend to reenlist -- an all-time low. The Army National Guard fell nearly 10 percent short of its 2004 recruiting goal of 56,000 enlistees. In addition, many former soldiers mobilized under a special program have refused to report; they've been to Iraq and don't want to go back. The pool of young people who have committed to join the Army next year is only 18 percent of the total required.

The United States maintains troops in 130 countries, including 146,000 combat troops in Iraq and 9,000 in Afghanistan.

We also have 119,00 military personnel in Europe, 43,000 in Japan, 37,000 in Korea and other forces elsewhere. To maintain these commitments while continuing to rotate troops out of Iraq every 12 months stretches our forces to the limit. The present level of combat in Iraq is unsustainable with our current forces.

Maybe Bush sees a light at the end of the tunnel.

The head of the Selective Service told CBS News that he could start drafting people quickly. "I think we could do it in less than six months if we got the call," said Selective Service Director Jack Martin.

Bush says there won't be a draft to fight the war in Iraq while he is president. Unfortunately, his credibility on Iraq is no better than his record on campaign statements.

Anyone who can read now knows that the administration's claims about WMD and about Saddam Hussein's ties to 9/11 and Al-Qaida were false. The assurances that we would be welcomed as liberators and could use Iraq's oil money to finance reconstruction were patently absurd. It is public knowledge that the administration used forged documents and phony intelligence to claim Saddam was pursuing nuclear material from Niger and specialty aluminum for centrifuges.

Vice President Dick Cheney continues to claim that Saddam protected Abu Nidal, supposedly proof he supported terrorists, even though Saddam had had Abu Nidal assassinated well before the U.S. invasion. To make the same point, the administration routinely claims that Abu Musab al-Zarqawi was working with Sadddam even though the evidence is that Al-Zarqawi came into Iraq after the invasion.

The administration's litany of misrepresentations and outright falsehoods on Iraq is so pervasive that nothing it says can be taken at face value.

Yes, George Bush says there will be no draft while he is president, but don't bet your life on it.
Tom Maertens' writing on national security issues can be seen at www.tommaertens.com.

If the bolded part were good logic, wouldn't it also mean that since Kerry portrays himself as more intent on prosecuting the war in Iraq than Bush, it logically makes a draft similarly more likely? I guess no matter which way we vote, we are in for a draft. OMG :blowhorn:

mosca
10-23-2004, 11:10 PM
we don't want a non-volunteer army at this point in history.

watermock
10-23-2004, 11:16 PM
This is political hyperbole that has allready been dismissed. The national debt has nothing to do with the draft.

You don't want people drafted anyway. You can't rule it out, but it's a really poor strategy when your hunting a goose in Iowa. It's pretty funny, he looked so comedic he lost Iowa with that stunt. He's now down by 6 points and will lose Iowa. Noone hunts like that.

Bronco_Beerslug
10-24-2004, 07:24 AM
we don't want a non-volunteer army at this point in history.
Then maybe invading countries at this point isn't the best strategy to use to try and keep the military voluntary.

The article points to what Bush promised and what you have now. Pretty strong evidence that what he says and what you get are two different things.

Bronco_Beerslug
10-24-2004, 07:27 AM
This is political hyperbole that has allready been dismissed. The national debt has nothing to do with the draft.

You don't want people drafted anyway. You can't rule it out, but it's a really poor strategy when your hunting a goose in Iowa. It's pretty funny, he looked so comedic he lost Iowa with that stunt. He's now down by 6 points and will lose Iowa. Noone hunts like that.He must be quite the hunter to hunt both Ohio and Iowa in the same day.

Crushaholic
10-24-2004, 09:18 AM
Iraq has elections in January. It won't be that much longer before they start taking charge of their mess. However, it's critical that we finish the job. An unfinished mission could create more chaos than there already is.

TailgateNut
10-24-2004, 06:23 PM
Iraq has elections in January. It won't be that much longer before they start taking charge of their mess. However, it's critical that we finish the job. An unfinished mission could create more chaos than there already is.


I'm sure those elections will be as fair as the 2000 election was, what a frigging joke. You've been listening to Curious George waayyy to long!

watermock
10-24-2004, 07:20 PM
Kerry hunted in Iowa.

Once we glean the fields they have no cover. It's like shooting fish in a barrel.

I have hit two deer, a couble wabbits, a couple pheasants, a partrige and a freaking pear tree here. They have farmers here that don't even lock their houses.

The Geese get out of dodge. They go fly off. I think I hit a cayote but he ran off.

I like Iowa. Iowa is cool in alot of ways. I gets hostile cold but it's a safe place.

Bronco_Beerslug
10-24-2004, 07:46 PM
Kerry hunted in Iowa.

Once we glean the fields they have no cover. It's like shooting fish in a barrel.

I have hit two deer, a couble wabbits, a couple pheasants, a partrige and a freaking pear tree here. They have farmers here that don't even lock their houses.

The Geese get out of dodge. They go fly off. I think I hit a cayote but he ran off.

I like Iowa. Iowa is cool in alot of ways. I gets hostile cold but it's a safe place.
Are you referring to his last trip? This month I seen Ohio but nothing on Iowa.
I think those farmers there are feeding you a line.

mosca
10-24-2004, 08:50 PM
I'm sure those elections will be as fair as the 2000 election was, what a frigging joke. You've been listening to Curious George waayyy to long!

you're probably the same type who criticised the recent historic afghan elections.

Crushaholic
10-24-2004, 09:25 PM
I'm sure those elections will be as fair as the 2000 election was, what a frigging joke. You've been listening to Curious George waayyy to long!

The results weren't going to change. Bush won every examination of hanging chads. The Supreme Court voted to stop the ridiculous madness such as this:

missingnumber7
10-24-2004, 09:36 PM
we don't want a non-volunteer army at this point in history.
Understatment of the decade. In my 11 months in Iraq, 3 in Kuwait, and 4 at Ft. Carson I have seen the deployment of the national guard. I don't think its horrible, but its not a long term answer. They make the stop loss seem like a cheap way to keep people in, but the only way guards are stop lossed is if their unit is activated, they have to finish the activation. Stop loss doesn't apply to people seperating from the military on active duty after their deployment is over. And in 90% of the cases their tour of duty is only extended 9 to 12 months...and they are given an option to reup for that year to recieve a bonus if they are so eligible.
But starting a draft is a horrible idea. Our military is the best in the world...and there is a reason for that. It is a volenteer military. If we start drafting we are going to see our success fall. Bad enough that some people don't care as it is, but it would only get worse...and I guarentee there would be more american deaths than there is now if we draft.

patteeu
10-25-2004, 05:51 AM
I'm sure those elections will be as fair as the 2000 election was, what a frigging joke. You've been listening to Curious George waayyy to long!

I've determined that you are not qualified to vote. Please report to your local election office and turn in your voter registration card immediately.

TailgateNut
10-25-2004, 07:16 AM
I've determined that you are not qualified to vote. Please report to your local election office and turn in your voter registration card immediately.

YOU'VE determined that I'm not qualified! I'll run down to the election office immediately and turn in ONE of my registration cards! LOL


(Quote=Mosca)...you're probably the same type who criticised the recent historic afghan elections. (Quote)

Do you actually think those elections were "fair and square"? Give me a break, using "magic markers" to identify voters who have cast their ballot is a joke. Especially if it isn't a permanent marker. Maybe we should do the same here in the US!

broncogary
10-25-2004, 07:36 AM
YOU'VE determined that I'm not qualified! I'll run down to the election office immediately and turn in ONE of my registration cards! LOL


You were probably going to vote R with that one, weren't you, just for a change of pace. :vermeil: