Court Rules! "Sept. 11th cannot be the day liberty perished"

[Nick C.]

Terror Fears Can't Curb 'Liberty' -
11th Circuit Court Of Appeals
By C.G. Wallace
Associated Press Writer
10-17-4

ATLANTA - Fear of a terrorist attack is not sufficient reason for authorities to search people at a protest, a federal appeals court has ruled, saying Sept. 11 "cannot be the day liberty perished."

A three-judge panel of the 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruled unanimously Friday that protesters may not be required to pass through metal detectors when they gather next month for a rally against a U.S. training academy for Latin American soldiers.

Authorities began using the metal detectors at the annual School of the Americas protest after the 2001 terrorist attacks, but the court found that practice to be unconstitutional.

"We cannot simply suspend or restrict civil liberties until the War on Terror is over, because the War on Terror is unlikely ever to be truly over," Judge Gerald Tjoflat wrote for the panel. "Sept. 11, 2001, already a day of immeasurable tragedy, cannot be the day liberty perished in this country."

City officials in Columbus, Ga., contended the searches are needed because of the elevated risk of terrorism, but the court threw out that argument, saying it would "eviscerate the Fourth Amendment."

"In the absence of some reason to believe that international terrorists would target or infiltrate this protest, there is no basis for using Sept. 11 as an excuse for searching the protesters," the court said.

About 15,000 demonstrators attend the annual vigil, demanding the closing of a school they allege teaches Latin American soldiers to violate the human rights of poor people in their home countries. The facility at Fort Benning was once known as the School of the Americas, but reopened in January 2001 as the Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation.

The protests began in 1990. This year's demonstration is scheduled for Nov. 20-21.

Columbus Mayor Bob Poydasheff said the city will abide by the order but called it "unreasonable."

"I can't go into the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals without being scanned and having my briefcase searched," Poydasheff said. "They have every right to do that, to make sure they're protected. And I have every right to make sure my police are protected, and the citizens and the other protesters are protected."

The mayor said the city attorney's office is considering appealing the ruling to the full 11th Circuit. The city attorney declined to comment on the case until Monday.

The Rev. Roy Bourgeois, a priest who founded the protest group called SOA Watch, praised the ruling for safeguarding essential rights.

"I felt that they were using 9/11 as an excuse, along with the Patriot Act, to interfere with our First Amendment rights," he said. "They are using this to get around what the Constitution is really rooted in."

The metal detectors caused long lines and congestion outside the protest area, he said, comparing it to routing 10,000 people through a single security gate at an airport.

"It was not just an inconvenience, it was a nightmare. We couldn't get to the place of assembly in an orderly fashion," he said.

Michael Greenberger, law professor and director of the University of Maryland's Center for Health and Homeland Security, said the ruling could have broader implications if it is used to challenge aspects of the Patriot Act.

It was surprising, he said, coming from the conservative-leaning 11th Circuit, based in Atlanta, but the opinion was "very well reasoned" and reflected "conventional application of constitutional principles."

First Amendment lawyer Floyd Abrams said that although there are steps the government can take to protect people from terrorism, "that doesn't mean we just dispense with the Bill of Rights as a consequence of 9/11."

"We don't yet live in a society in which everyone must always go through metal detectors everywhere we go," Abrams added.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

:thumbsup:

[RaiderH8r]

This does however beg the question, what happens if a suicide bomber takes the opportunity to blow themselves up in the middle of a massive crowd of protesters? Do we then complain that the government didn't do enough to protect its citizens? Just a question, not a statement.

[Samiwindr]

This does however beg the question, what happens if a suicide bomber takes the opportunity to blow themselves up in the middle of a massive crowd of protesters? Do we then complain that the government didn't do enough to protect its citizens? Just a question, not a statement

Yeah, right. Do we complain when a guy brings a few guns to work and blows away 5 people? Do we complain when some psycho takes an AK into McD's at lunch time? Is there an uproar over vehical saftey now that 11 people are dead from a stupid car chase? So What's a bomb in the middle of a protest?

More drama - best stay indoors tonight.

[alkemical]

i'd rather die, than turn over liberty or privacy

doing this stuff means they win

[Nick C.]

This does however beg the question, what happens if a suicide bomber takes the opportunity to blow themselves up in the middle of a massive crowd of protesters? Do we then complain that the government didn't do enough to protect its citizens? Just a question, not a statement.
I personally would not transfer blame unto the American government, I do not expect them to protect me. even with evidence of prior knowledge of the 9/11 plot you can not blame it on America. I blame much of the fear that they promote on America I think they use it for there own gain. I think we just need to come to terms these are trying times we live in and carry on with life as we know it and realize life is precious and can be lost anywhere at any moment, be it from a bomb, Car accident, or Act of Nature.

[Nick C.]

i'd rather die, than turn over liberty or privacy

doing this stuff means they win
exactly, they can not protect us and by changing our way of life and laws the terrorists win.

[Mile High Shack]

exactly, they can not protect us and by changing our way of life and laws the terrorists win.

what do you care? you side with the terrorists?

[alkemical]

see nick, right here is an example of what i'm talkin' 'bout

[Mile High Shack]

see nick, right here is an example of what i'm talkin' 'bout

I'm not talking about this thread

as a whole Nick sides with the terroists...see his posts on how he cheered and smiled when the Twin Towers were burning.

He may have a right to say what he wants, but so do I to call him an idiot for thinking like that...see how free speech works, it goes both ways.

[RaiderH8r]

I'm not talking about this thread

as a whole Nick sides with the terroists...see his posts on how he cheered and smiled when the Twin Towers were burning.

He may have a right to say what he wants, but so do I to call him an idiot for thinking like that...see how free speech works, it goes both ways.
Like George Michael. ;D

[RaiderH8r]

I personally would not transfer blame unto the American government, I do not expect them to protect me. even with evidence of prior knowledge of the 9/11 plot you can not blame it on America. I blame much of the fear that they promote on America I think they use it for there own gain. I think we just need to come to terms these are trying times we live in and carry on with life as we know it and realize life is precious and can be lost anywhere at any moment, be it from a bomb, Car accident, or Act of Nature.
I've GOT to call horseshat on this one. You've spent countless threads eviscerating the American Government for not doing more to prevent 9-11.

[Nick C.]

I've GOT to call horseshat on this one. You've spent countless threads eviscerating the American Government for not doing more to prevent 9-11.
Show me one Quote that I said the Government could or should have done more to prevent 9-11.

[Nick C.]

see nick, right here is an example of what i'm talkin' 'bout
This is very disheartning to me :(, I am preaching Peace and they think I am sideing with Terrorists? they are so ****ing locked into what the New spews.
ever more proof that Orwell was correct and that the Nightly news equates to "The hour of Hate".

"Nationalism is an Infintile Disease, it is the Measles of mankind"

[alkemical]

i've never seen nick side with terrorists any more than our government

[Mile High Shack]

This is very disheartning to me :(, I am preaching Peace and they think I am sideing with Terrorists? they are so ****ing locked into what the New spews.
ever more proof that Orwell was correct and that the Nightly news equates to "The hour of Hate".

"Nationalism is an Infintile Disease, it is the Measles of mankind"


you preach peace but gleefully celebrate 3,000 people's death on 9/11.

you are the biggest asshole I have ever had the displeasure of talking to.

[Mile High Shack]

i've never seen nick side with terrorists any more than our government

bull****, look at the celebrate 9/11 thread

besides, it's probably hard to figure out where he stands, b/c he jumps around all over the place and constantly contridicts himself...but yeah

any human that celebrates the twin towers burning sides with terroists in my mind.

sorry.

[RaiderH8r]

Show me one Quote that I said the Government could or should have done more to prevent 9-11.
Oh, I don't know....how about the entire thread regarding the release of the 9-11 Commission's findings? Hmmm, I don't know...could it be.....

[RaiderH8r]

"Nationalism is an Infintile Disease, it is the Measles of mankind"

Nationalism is merely an extension of the evolution that stems from the need for one to protect their own family from threats and danger. For better or worse, until the urge no longer exists to defeat those who purposefully do harm to your loved ones then nationalism will never die.

[Nick C.]

i've never seen nick side with terrorists any more than our government
exactly, I just am trying to point out we are just helping tommrows terrorists that we have not changed our M.O. and thus the outcome in the long run will be the same. I want this country to be what it was based on. my only gripe is with the uneven distrabution of wealth and how the rich put money over humans.

Thank you for understanding.

[RaiderH8r]

exactly, I just am trying to point out we are just helping tommrows terrorists that we have not changed our M.O. and thus the outcome in the long run will be the same. I want this country to be what it was based on. my only gripe is with the uneven distrabution of wealth and how the rich put money over humans.

Thank you for understanding.
You really have not read the founding fathers documents have you? The Federalist Papers would be a good start. Most of Madison's musings are very insightful. You might enjoy the prospect that our country was founded on the basis of equal opportunity not equal outcome. Can't cut it tough shat, back of the pack with ya.

[Nick C.]

Nationalism is merely an extension of the evolution that stems from the need for one to protect their own family from threats and danger. For better or worse, until the urge no longer exists to defeat those who purposefully do harm to your loved ones then nationalism will never die.
I agree, yet just cause something is long standing and shows no sign of ending in the future does not make it RIGHT. Nationalism is just modern day Tribs. but maybe one day as Regan said we will be forced to work together as humans and unite against a force from outside this planet. then the Tribe will be Global.

Funny I want us all to get along and be global but I fear a N.W.O. I guess it is cause I see the N.W.O. just spreading the most evil aspects of our current systems.

[Nick C.]

You really have not read the founding fathers documents have you? The Federalist Papers would be a good start. Most of Madison's musings are very insightful. You might enjoy the prospect that our country was founded on the basis of equal opportunity not equal outcome. Can't cut it tough shat, back of the pack with ya.
I have read many of the founding fathers documents and think most of the ideals should be upheld, yet somethings have proven to be detramental.
I just see through the crap that in America anyone can be rich, wich in esence is true but I think everyone can be rich and that is much better IMO.

[RaiderH8r]

I agree, yet just cause something is long standing and shows no sign of ending in the future does not make it RIGHT. Nationalism is just modern day Tribs. but maybe one day as Regan said we will be forced to work together as humans and unite against a force from outside this planet. then the Tribe will be Global.

Funny I want us all to get along and be global but I fear a N.W.O. I guess it is cause I see the N.W.O. just spreading the most evil aspects of our current systems.
Happens sometimes on LSD. But I digress. There is a world community but first there is a national community, then a civic community, then a neighborhood and finally a home. Each more important than the previous. When in a war the focus turns to a national community to stem the tide of an agressor. Just how it is. It's evolution, talk to Darwin. Fundamental survival, stick with those you know and trust in times of crisis. And when the invaders from Xanathon 9 attack then we can be your world community and Jeff Goldblum and the Fresh Prince can load a computer virus onto the mothership while the president flies F-14 Tomcats at invading spaceships. And we will all rejoice in the triumph that is truly....oops, LSD flashback. I think this was a movie. See how that happens.

[RaiderH8r]

I have read many of the founding fathers documents and think most of the ideals should be upheld, yet somethings have proven to be detramental.
I just see through the crap that in America anyone can be rich, wich in esence is true but I think everyone can be rich and that is much better IMO.
Guaranteed wages raises the cost of products and services basically negating the wage increase. Not everybody can be rich, go ask any Russian who stood in a bread line. They were all promised the same thing and I hate to be the one to inform you, the rich do not stand in bread lines. So how do you think that went for them? You want to be rich? Do it better, faster, smarter, and more efficiently than your competitor and do it at lower cost. There, now it is up to you to go get rich.

[Sideburn]

Happens sometimes on LSD. But I digress. There is a world community but first there is a national community, then a civic community, then a neighborhood and finally a home. Each more important than the previous. When in a war the focus turns to a national community to stem the tide of an agressor. Just how it is. It's evolution, talk to Darwin. Fundamental survival, stick with those you know and trust in times of crisis. And when the invaders from Xanathon 9 attack then we can be your world community and Jeff Goldblum and the Fresh Prince can load a computer virus onto the mothership while the president flies F-14 Tomcats at invading spaceships. And we will all rejoice in the triumph that is truly....oops, LSD flashback. I think this was a movie. See how that happens.
Come on now....it was an F-18 superhornet

[RaiderH8r]

Come on now....it was an F-18 superhornet
Well it WAS an LSD flashback. You've got that stupid little head giving you the answers. Nnyah!

[Nick C.]

Happens sometimes on LSD. But I digress. There is a world community but first there is a national community, then a civic community, then a neighborhood and finally a home. Each more important than the previous. When in a war the focus turns to a national community to stem the tide of an agressor. Just how it is. It's evolution, talk to Darwin. Fundamental survival, stick with those you know and trust in times of crisis. And when the invaders from Xanathon 9 attack then we can be your world community and Jeff Goldblum and the Fresh Prince can load a computer virus onto the mothership while the president flies F-14 Tomcats at invading spaceships. And we will all rejoice in the triumph that is truly....oops, LSD flashback. I think this was a movie. See how that happens.
:kiddingme

[Nick C.]

Guaranteed wages raises the cost of products and services basically negating the wage increase. Not everybody can be rich, go ask any Russian who stood in a bread line. They were all promised the same thing and I hate to be the one to inform you, the rich do not stand in bread lines. So how do you think that went for them? You want to be rich? Do it better, faster, smarter, and more efficiently than your competitor and do it at lower cost. There, now it is up to you to go get rich.
America has alot more to offer then Russia for one. America could feed the world. don't you realize that if the cost of production is higher that means that more people are makeing more and the top dog is makeing less makeing things a bit more even? that is why I hate the topic of the month "outsourceing"

[RaiderH8r]

America has alot more to offer then Russia for one. America could feed the world. don't you realize that if the cost of production is higher that means that more people are makeing more and the top dog is makeing less makeing things a bit more even? that is why I hate the topic of the month "outsourceing"
But the "top dog" took the risk and invested the capital in the first place. If he goes under, do his employees help him recoup his losses?

America has a lot more to offer :pimp: because we foster an entreprenurial spirit...unlike Communist Russia.

[Nick C.]

But the "top dog" took the risk and invested the capital in the first place. If he goes under, do his employees help him recoup his losses?

America has a lot more to offer :pimp: because we foster an entreprenurial spirit...unlike Communist Russia.
That is the major thing I wish a Socialist country would be able to do, foster the enterpernurial spirit. but at the same time much of the new technolgy and crap that is sold to us is useless. yet we think it is progress.
When the lights go down in the city who do you think will last longer? Bill Gates? or the Drunk bum on 20th and blake? and to expand that who will last longer an American or an Iraqi?

[alkemical]

we are socialists who foster entrepreneurs - we bail out companies all the time

[RaiderH8r]

That is the major thing I wish a Socialist country would be able to do, foster the enterpernurial spirit. but at the same time much of the new technolgy and crap that is sold to us is useless. yet we think it is progress.
When the lights go down in the city who do you think will last longer? Bill Gates? or the Drunk bum on 20th and blake? and to expand that who will last longer an American or an Iraqi?
So I should fear the drunk bum because he can outlast me when "the lights go down"? The man who knows how to till the land will last the longest, supposing he has enough guns and ammunition to stave off the starving hordes....which most do. Thank you second amendment. Screw the bum, he does nothing and deserves nothing. He spends his 8 hrs begging for money, I spend mine getting paid more. We both have our jobs, one just has better pay and benefits.

[RaiderH8r]

we are socialists who foster entrepreneurs - we bail out companies all the time
Yeah, we would hate to have those people out of work. Don't forget farm subsidies.

[Nick C.]

So I should fear the drunk bum because he can outlast me when "the lights go down"? The man who knows how to till the land will last the longest, supposing he has enough guns and ammunition to stave off the starving hordes....which most do. Thank you second amendment. Screw the bum, he does nothing and deserves nothing. He spends his 8 hrs begging for money, I spend mine getting paid more. We both have our jobs, one just has better pay and benefits.
If the lights do go out the Bum's "job" would have better benefits. he would know how to survive on his own with out Ted Kopple telling him what move to make next. Don't fear the bum keep walking over him paying no atention so in the night he can pilliage all you have aquired. at this point I would rather Bush be re-electid it would be like drawing the warm water before America cut's open it's wrists.

[Pezman]

I'm not talking about this thread

as a whole Nick sides with the terroists...see his posts on how he cheered and smiled when the Twin Towers were burning.

He may have a right to say what he wants, but so do I to call him an idiot for thinking like that...see how free speech works, it goes both ways.

Wow... that is stunning stuff... Nick, I guess I missed that, is this true?

[Nick C.]

Wow... that is stunning stuff... Nick, I guess I missed that, is this true?
How could you have missed that it is the talk of the town pezman!