September Job Growth Only 96,000

[Bronco_Beerslug]

And of course, once again, this isn't even close to the number needed to keep pace with new Americans entering the job market every month.

---------------------------------------------------
By LEIGH STROPE, AP Labor Writer

WASHINGTON - Companies added 96,000 jobs to their payrolls in September, fewer than economists forecast for the last employment report before Election Day. The figures underscored the modest hiring pace that has become an issue in President Bush (news - web sites)'s re-election bid.

The four hurricanes striking Florida and other coastal states the past two months appear "to have held down employment growth, but not enough to change materially" the overall jobs picture in September, the Labor Department (news - web sites) said Friday.

The nation's civilian unemployment rate remained at 5.4 percent.
Job growth was weighed down by losses in manufacturing, retail and information services. September's net increase of 96,000 payroll jobs was less than August's rise, which was revised down in Friday's report from 144,000 to 128,000.
"I wouldn't want to be in President Bush's shoes. He had better prepare himself for an onslaught," said private economist Ken Mayland of ClearView Economics, noting Friday night's second presidential debate. "The reality is that a 96,000 increase in a work force of a 131 million base is an anemic rise, and is in no way a satisfactory increase."

The economy should be creating 250,000 jobs or more per month by now, he said. Economists predicted that about 150,000 new jobs would be added in September.
On Wall Street, the lackluster report pushed stocks lower. The Dow Jones industrial average was down 19 points in late morning trading, and the Nasdaq dropped almost 13 points.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=668&e=7&u=/ap/20041008/ap_on_bi_go_ec_fi/economy

[Mile High Shack]

so, what will Kerry do different to change this?

[Bronco_Beerslug]

so, what will Kerry do different to change this?
You been given the info often and automatically dismiss it but I'll play along and post it again. There are pages and pages just on the economy but I'd bet you like most Bush supporters won't take the time to read them.

By the way, what is Bush's plan for the economy?

-----------------------------------------
Create Good-Paying Jobs
As president, John Kerry will cut taxes for businesses that create jobs here in America instead of moving them overseas. John Kerry and John Edwards will also stand up for workers by enforcing our trade agreements.

Cut Middle-Class Taxes To Raise Middle-Class Incomes
When John Kerry is president, middle-class taxes will go down. Ninety-eight percent of all Americans and 99 percent of American businesses will get a tax cut under the Kerry-Edwards plan.

Make Washington Live Within A Budget
John Kerry will cut the deficit in half during his first four years in office. He will end corporate welfare as we know it, roll back the Bush tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans, and impose a real cap to keep spending in check. And when John Kerry puts forward a new idea, he'll tell you how he's going to pay for it.

Invest In The Jobs Of Tomorrow
Today, businesses are harnessing new technology to manufacture energy-efficient cars, high-grade steel, advanced plastics and other new products. And this requires a bigger, skilled labor force to make them. John Kerry and John Edwards believe we should invest in these jobs and invest in the people who will fill them.
http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/economy/

[Spider]

you post what Kerry says and the Republican sees Flip Floppin
it is a built in self defense reflex ........ That and blamming Clinton ;D

[Mile High Shack]

You been given the info often and automatically dismiss it but I'll play along and post it again. There are pages and pages just on the economy but I'd bet you like most Bush supporters won't take the time to read them.

By the way, what is Bush's plan for the economy?

-----------------------------------------
Create Good-Paying Jobs
As president, John Kerry will cut taxes for businesses that create jobs here in America instead of moving them overseas. John Kerry and John Edwards will also stand up for workers by enforcing our trade agreements.

Cut Middle-Class Taxes To Raise Middle-Class Incomes
When John Kerry is president, middle-class taxes will go down. Ninety-eight percent of all Americans and 99 percent of American businesses will get a tax cut under the Kerry-Edwards plan.

Make Washington Live Within A Budget
John Kerry will cut the deficit in half during his first four years in office. He will end corporate welfare as we know it, roll back the Bush tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans, and impose a real cap to keep spending in check. And when John Kerry puts forward a new idea, he'll tell you how he's going to pay for it.

Invest In The Jobs Of Tomorrow
Today, businesses are harnessing new technology to manufacture energy-efficient cars, high-grade steel, advanced plastics and other new products. And this requires a bigger, skilled labor force to make them. John Kerry and John Edwards believe we should invest in these jobs and invest in the people who will fill them.
http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/economy/

Create Good-Paying Jobs
As president, John Kerry will cut taxes for businesses that create jobs here in America instead of moving them overseas. John Kerry and John Edwards will also stand up for workers by enforcing our trade agreements.


ok, let's see this work......out sourcing has been going on for a long, long time....and the world is a global world, our borders aren't closed

Cut Middle-Class Taxes To Raise Middle-Class Incomes
When John Kerry is president, middle-class taxes will go down. Ninety-eight percent of all Americans and 99 percent of American businesses will get a tax cut under the Kerry-Edwards plan.


a lot of small business pay taxes on their personal income taxes and they make more than 100K, so you'll be taxing small business more. Middle class already gets a tax cut with Bush...nothing new there.

Invest In The Jobs Of Tomorrow
Today, businesses are harnessing new technology to manufacture energy-efficient cars, high-grade steel, advanced plastics and other new products. And this requires a bigger, skilled labor force to make them. John Kerry and John Edwards believe we should invest in these jobs and invest in the people who will fill them.
http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/economy/[/QUOTE]


same as bushs' plans as well

Make Washington Live Within A Budget
John Kerry will cut the deficit in half during his first four years in office. He will end corporate welfare as we know it, roll back the Bush tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans, and impose a real cap to keep spending in check. And when John Kerry puts forward a new idea, he'll tell you how he's going to pay for it.


cut deficit by raising EVERYONES taxes...your right...and cut back on military just like normal dems do.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

ok, let's see this work......out sourcing has been going on for a long, long time....and the world is a global world, our borders aren't closed




a lot of small business pay taxes on their personal income taxes and they make more than 100K, so you'll be taxing small business more. Middle class already gets a tax cut with Bush...nothing new there.

same as bushs' plans as well



cut deficit by raising EVERYONES taxes...your right...and cut back on military just like normal dems do.
Like I said you wouldn't actually read the information available but still comment on it and inaccurately.

[baja]

Like the Bronco's have homer fans it seems that presidents have homer fans too

[Mile High Shack]

Like I said you wouldn't actually read the information available but still comment on it and inaccurately.

I read it and commented on it

Kerry will raise tax all the way around and thinks government can solve all our problems...I know his scphell

besides that, he is doing a very good job of telling people exactly what they want to hear.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

I read it and commented on it

Kerry will raise tax all the way around and thinks government can solve all our problems...I know his scphell

.
You read it?? Why did you make this statemernt then???

[Mile High Shack]

You read it?? Why did you make this statemernt then???

because just b/c he said it doesn't mean I believe him???

with all he is proposing you honestly think he can only do that by "taxing the rich"???

c'mon, seriously....look at his record as well, he is a guy who is known to raise taxes, why is that hard to understand, just b/c he says he won't means he won't?

LOL I have some swampland to sell you as well too

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Exactly what I thought. You condemn his plan without even reading it and considering it. I think it's called being Bushbrain. Because Bush says something it's automatically right and when Kerry says something it's automatically wrong.

Back to my first question, can you tell me if Bush has an economic plan?

[Mile High Shack]

Exactly what I thought. You condemn his plan without even reading it and considering it. I think it's called being Bushbrain. Because Bush says something it's automatically right and when Kerry says something it's automatically wrong.

Back to my first question, can you tell me if Bush has an economic plan?

huh? I did read it, but I don't believe it, just like you don't believe Bush's plan

[Bronco_Beerslug]

huh? I did read it, but I don't believe it, just like you don't believe Bush's plan
What is his plan or is it over now?

[Mile High Shack]

What is his plan or is it over now?
www.georgewbush.com

In his second term, President Bush will focus on building a more prosperous, competitive economy that will continue to be a strong engine for jobs and prosperity for years to come. The essential elements of his plan include: taking the next bold steps in reforming education; building a skilled and effective workforce; encouraging a pro-growth, fair, and simpler tax system; promoting research and development in both the public and private sectors; opening markets for American goods around the globe; meeting our energy needs and lessening our energy dependence; reducing the regulatory burden; and reforming Government to be smaller and more efficient, responsive, and effective. President Bush is committed to making sure America has the best prepared, best educated, and highest skilled workforce in the world.

Jobs for the 21st Century Initiative: President Bush will provide $500 million for Jobs for the 21st Century, which will help educate and train high-skilled American workers in schools and community colleges.

Tax Reform: President Bush will work to make the tax code simpler for taxpayers, encourage saving and investment, and improve the economy’s ability to create jobs and raise wages.

Promote Comp-Time and Flex-Time: President Bush will work to enable employees to choose paid time off as an alternative to overtime pay and to give employees the option of shifting work hours during a pay period.

Homeownership: President Bush will provide assistance to help America to meet his new goal of creating 7 million new, affordable homes in 10 years.

Help Small Businesses: President Bush will help small businesses in a number of ways, including by allowing them to band together to provide more affordable health care for their employees through Association Health Plans

there are others, you know his plan, this is pointless

[Bronco_Beerslug]

www.georgewbush.com

In his second term, President Bush will focus on building a more prosperous, competitive economy that will continue to be a strong engine for jobs and prosperity for years to come. The essential elements of his plan include: taking the next bold steps in reforming education; building a skilled and effective workforce; encouraging a pro-growth, fair, and simpler tax system; promoting research and development in both the public and private sectors; opening markets for American goods around the globe; meeting our energy needs and lessening our energy dependence; reducing the regulatory burden; and reforming Government to be smaller and more efficient, responsive, and effective. President Bush is committed to making sure America has the best prepared, best educated, and highest skilled workforce in the world.

Jobs for the 21st Century Initiative: President Bush will provide $500 million for Jobs for the 21st Century, which will help educate and train high-skilled American workers in schools and community colleges.

Tax Reform: President Bush will work to make the tax code simpler for taxpayers, encourage saving and investment, and improve the economy’s ability to create jobs and raise wages.

Promote Comp-Time and Flex-Time: President Bush will work to enable employees to choose paid time off as an alternative to overtime pay and to give employees the option of shifting work hours during a pay period.

Homeownership: President Bush will provide assistance to help America to meet his new goal of creating 7 million new, affordable homes in 10 years.

Help Small Businesses: President Bush will help small businesses in a number of ways, including by allowing them to band together to provide more affordable health care for their employees through Association Health Plans

there are others, you know his plan, this is pointless
I do know what he said he will do but he doesn't define where he's going to get the funds to try and accomplish all these things unlike Kerry who does.
Under Bush's watch, the country has never before seen the records at which Bush is spending money not recovering the lost revenues from his tax breaks for income over $200,000. How can you or anyone else support this kind of government waste and spending? His economic plan is not generating growth for a strong America.
The majority of jobs that have been added are low-paying, benefitless jobs.
How can you support this economic direction?

[Mile High Shack]

he is proposing to cut spending...he upped spending to pay for war and concievably we won't have to spend as much in the coming years

you can check www.georgewbush.com for that

again, pointless, i'm not changing your mind and vice-versa

[Crushaholic]

Make Washington Live Within A Budget and impose a real cap to keep spending in check.

This will happen when :pigsfly:

Congress has never had the cajones to rein in spending and never will. Kerry should know that, as a member of the Senate for so many years. This is more empty promises that will fall by the wayside very quickly.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Bush is undoubtedly going to point to these dubious employment stats in tonight's debate as evidence of the "progress" he is making.

Kerry needs to keep the focus on the entire four years of the bush record on jobs and the economy.

Bottom line: Bush has presided over the first net job loss since the great depression.

[baja]

Bush is undoubtedly going to point to these dubious employment stats in tonight's debate as evidence of the "progress" he is making.

Kerry needs to keep the focus on the entire four years of the bush record on jobs and the economy.

Bottom line: Bush has presided over the first net job loss since the great depression.


Exactly.

1,000,000 less jobs today than there were when Bush took office, as just reported on CNN.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

1,000,000 less jobs today than there were when Bush took office, as just reported on CNN.

And Kerry needs to keep hammering him on this fact.

[Rock Chalk]

"Companies added 96,000 jobs to their payrolls in September"

So 96 thousand people who did not previously have a job are now gainfully employed?

How is this a bad thing?

Because it wasnt enough?

Tell that to 96 thousand people who just got jobs.

[OrangeDoofus]

"Companies added 96,000 jobs to their payrolls in September"

So 96 thousand people who did not previously have a job are now gainfully employed?

How is this a bad thing?

Because it wasnt enough?

Tell that to 96 thousand people who just got jobs.

So you're saying we should just be grateful that there are any new jobs at all? Talk about setting the bar low.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

"Companies added 96,000 jobs to their payrolls in September"

So 96 thousand people who did not previously have a job are now gainfully employed?

How is this a bad thing?

Because it wasnt enough?

Tell that to 96 thousand people who just got jobs.
Considering there are approximately 250,000 Americans entering the job market every month this is NOT good news.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

This will happen when :pigsfly:

Congress has never had the cajones to rein in spending and never will. Kerry should know that, as a member of the Senate for so many years. This is more empty promises that will fall by the wayside very quickly.

This post takes the cake as the most factually and historically incorrect statement I've ever seen here .

Clinton's budgets imposed across-the-board caps on federal spending. In so doing, he regularly pissed off members of his own party in the congress. Ultimately, his plan to restore fiscal discipline worked, and our economy was better off for it.

Meanwhile, bush the borrow and spend president has ushered in more government spending than any Democratic president in US history.

[TomServo]

OK.......somebody anybody. especially you all "link freaks' give us clintons exact economic numbers for the same time B4 his re election.

[TomServo]

plus keep in mind the corporate scandals, the dot.com bubble bursting, the dow declining,GDP declining, and O yes 9-11. and two wars....

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

plus keep in mind the corporate scandals, the dot.com bubble bursting, the dow declining,GDP declining, and O yes 9-11. and two wars....

The thread topic is job creation and job loss.

Record numbers of jobs were created on Clinton's eight-year watch, and, no, not just tech sector jobs.

Smirk has presided over the first net job loss since the great depression.

Think about that for a minute.

Bank of America to Cut 4,500 Jobs

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=530&ncid=530&e=2&u=/ap/20041007/ap_on_bi_ge/bofa_job_cuts


AT&T to Cut About 7,000 Jobs

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=568&ncid=749&e=1&u=/nm/20041007/bs_nm/telecoms_att_dc

the dow declining, GDP declining

Thanks to bush's failed economic policies, e.g., tax loopholes for corporations, massive tax cuts for the wealthiest of the wealthy, etc.

and O yes 9-11. and two wars.

That dog won't hunt.

The economy started tanking on Bush's watch before 9/11.

The NY Times front page header read "no end to economic downturn in sight" or words to that effect on 9/10/01.

As for the war in Iraq...another costly and unnecessary blunder by BushCo. (Unless you're Halliburton or one of Smirk and Dick's cronies in which case you made out like a bandit.)

[TomServo]

that dog wont hunt? i agree the economy was tanking B4 he even took office

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

that dog wont hunt? i agree the economy was tanking B4 he even took office

Wrong.

The tech bubble had burst, there's no doubt, but Smirk inherited a $5 trillion budget surplus.

The economy didn't begin to tank until the frat boy gave the surplus away to his rich cronies and donors via massive tax cuts.

He said these tax cuts would stimulate the economy and create jobs.

Four years later, the jury is in:

He lied.

(But those of us who remember trickle-down from the Poppy and Reagan days already knew this.)

http://www.bartcop.com/nby_nixon.jpg

[Nick C.]

So you're saying we should just be grateful that there are any new jobs at all? Talk about setting the bar low.
wonder what his outlook would be if he was one of the Thousands without a job?

[TomServo]

ok then remember 9-11? easy to kick the terrorist can down the road like clinton did. the first WTC -forget it. the cole? forget it. the african emabsys? forget it? clinton kicked the the terrorist down the road.

[TomServo]

Damn easy to have a kick ass economy w/you push all the probs to the next president.

[Nick C.]

ok then remember 9-11? easy to kick the terrorist can down the road like clinton did. the first WTC -forget it. the cole? forget it. the african emabsys? forget it? clinton kicked the the terrorist down the road.
I don't think he just brushed it off, they where fighting it on a lower scale without alarming the people of false Threats and thus letting the Terrorist have there desired affect.

I know he surely did not go invade countrys that played no role in the agressive actions of a few radicals.

[watermock]

It wasn't a 5 trillion dollar surplus you dimwit, it was a projected 5 trillion dollar surplus.

Jesus Christ. It was funny money they counted in advance. You think I am wrong? The 5 trillion was a projection by Clinton to raise social programs. This is so amusing.

[TomServo]

all i know is i trust Bush more than i do Kerry. after all the oil for food scandal kerry still trusts the french. if anyone Doesnt know by now--the french are our enemys.

[Nick C.]

all i know is i trust Bush more than i do Kerry. after all the oil for food scandal kerry still trusts the french. if anyone Doesnt know by now--the french are our enemys.
yeah nothing compaird to bush's Go to war for WMD's (**OIL**) scandal. :nono:

[watermock]

Smirk inherited a $5 trillion budget surplus.

This simply shows you that LABF is a total idiot. It's literally hillarious. Hey, if you want to expand it out to 15 years, it's 15 trillion! Maybe 25!

The fact of the matter is we were covering debt and trimming debt as well as reorganizing the national debt into lower rates. There was nothing done with the national debt under Clinton.

Then you come out with some illusion that we had 5 trillion to play with. Well then 200 Billion to set the bastards on their heads isn't that big of a deal is it?

Your literally a lemming. Clinton had a balanced budget during a huge technological boom. That same boom has created less need for hands on pencil pushers. What part of this is beyond your comprehension? It's the same things that happened in every other industry. Now you don't need sally to feed copies into the machine, you just do it yourself from your desktop and pick them up allready corrolated.

Sally doesn't take notes. You type them into your computer and word check them and print them out.

It's cheaper to manufacture goods overseas.

You just don't get it.

There are women in the workforce now.

You just don't get it.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

ok then remember 9-11? easy to kick the terrorist can down the road like clinton did. the first WTC -forget it. the cole? forget it. the african emabsys? forget it? clinton kicked the the terrorist down the road.

Wrong.

BushCo did absolutely nothing to follow up on or to pursue the Cole investigation when they took office. They completely dropped the ball on the whole matter.

And, speaking of "kicking the terrorists down the road," this is exactly what the AWOL monkey did when he received that PDB (and many others warnings like it) which read "al Qaeda determined to attack inside the US."

all i know is i trust Bush more than i do Kerry. after all the oil for food scandal kerry still trusts the french. if anyone Doesnt know by now--the french are our enemys.

The French are our "enemies?"

Congratulations: You've just won the "American Psycho of the Week award."

As for your insinuation that the oil for food scandal was an exclusively French enterprise, you might want to check your facts:

http://www.gulfwarvets.com/aiding.htm

U.S. Firms Aiding Iraqi Oil Industry

Commerce With Baghdad Grows Quietly as Washington Urges Regime Change

By Colum Lynch
Special to The Washington Post
Sunday, February 20, 2000; Page A23

UNITED NATIONS, Feb. 17—Four years ago, when he was director of central intelligence, John M. Deutch headed up American efforts to overthrow Iraqi President Saddam Hussein. Today, Deutch sits on the board of Schlumberger Ltd., a multinational company that is helping Baghdad service its oil rigs.

As secretary of defense during the Persian Gulf War, Richard B. Cheney played a key role in the U.S.-led military coalition that forced Iraq to retreat from Kuwait. But as chief executive officer of Halliburton Co., a Dallas-based maker of oil equipment, Cheney recently held a major stake in Dresser-Rand and Ingersoll-Dresser Pump Co., two American players in the reconstruction of Iraq's oil industry. While the United States and Britain wage almost daily airstrikes against military installations in northern and southern Iraq, U.S. companies, executives and even some architects of American policy toward Iraq are doing business with Saddam Hussein's government and helping to rebuild its battered oil industry. Though perfectly legal, the growing U.S.-Iraqi commerce has been kept quiet by both sides because it seems to fly in the face of Washington's commitment to "regime change" in Baghdad and Saddam Hussein's claim to be defying the world's lone superpower. The United Nations also helps both countries avoid embarrassment by treating the business arrangements as confidential.

The trade is permitted under the "oil for food" deal, a humanitarianexemption from the U.N. trade embargo imposed on Iraq after the 1990 invasion of Kuwait. It allows Iraq to sell oil and use the proceeds, under U.N. supervision, to purchase food, medicine and other humanitarian goods, as well as spare parts to keep the oil flowing.

Placing bids through overseas subsidiaries and affiliates, more than a dozen U.S. firms have signed millions of dollars in contracts with Baghdad for oil-related equipment since the summer of 1998, according to diplomats, industry officials and U.N. documents.

"The United States is the cradle of the international oil industry," said James Placke, who tracks Persian Gulf oil production for Cambridge Energy Research Associates, a consulting firm. "A lot of the equipment in Iraq's oil industry was originally made in America, and if you want spare parts, you go back to the original supplier."

Most U.S. oil companies have been prohibited by Baghdad from directly purchasing Iraqi crude since the United States bombed Iraq during Operation Desert Fox in December 1998. But Iraq nevertheless has emerged in the past year as the fastest growing source of U.S. oil imports, according to Larry Goldstein, president of the Petroleum Industry Research Foundation.

American companies, he said, now purchase about 700,000 of the 2 million barrels of oil exported daily by Iraq, mainly through foreign middlemen who load the Iraqi crude and transport it directly to American ports, primarily in the Gulf of Mexico.

"The Chevrons and the Exxons of this world have to buy from the Russians, the French and the Chinese traders," said Goldstein. But, he added, "the U.S. spare parts industry is too dominant to ignore."

After approving the oil-for-food exemption in 1996, the U.N. Security Council gradually raised the amount of oil Iraq was allowed to sell, and on Dec. 17 it removed the ceiling.

In June 1998, the 15-nation Security Council voted to allow Iraq to buy up to $300 million in spare parts every six months. The council is considering a proposal to double that limit.

According to U.S. government figures, American firms account for only a tiny share of the nearly $10 billion in trade that has been conducted under the oil-for-food exemption. U.S. citizens have received licenses to export about $15 million of oil-related spare parts and $400 million of food, medicine and water treatment equipment to Iraq, according to the State Department.

But those figures do not count most products purchased by Iraq from American subsidiaries abroad. This indirect U.S.-Iraqi trade is tracked by the United Nations, which must approve all the contracts. But little information about it has been made public.

The U.N. humanitarian program for Iraq maintains a Web site that lists contracts by number, with a brief description of the goods involved and the country--but not the company--selling them to Iraq. According to this, the United States has been responsible for only 2 out of 2,080 contracts for oil spare parts submitted to the United Nations for approval. France, China and Russia, by contrast, submitted a total of 746 contracts.

America's real share of this trade, while unclear, is certainly far greater. Until recently, visitors to the Web site could search for a company name and then call up the contract numbers associated with that company, allowing cross-referencing between contracts and companies. The search engine was shut down last week after U.N. officials learned that The Washington Post had used it to investigate U.S. companies doing business with Iraq through foreign subsidiaries.

John Mills, spokesman for the U.N. Office of the Iraq Program, declined to comment on the extent of U.S. trade with Iraq, saying it was proprietary trade information.

According to diplomats and the Web site, American firms that have done business with Iraq, directly or through subsidiaries, include such petroleum industry giants as Halliburton, the world's largest oil field service company; Schlumberger, the second largest oil field servicer; the Fisher-Rosemount unit of Emerson Electric Co. in St. Louis; the Hamilton Sundstrand unit of United Technologies in Windsor Locks, Conn.; and Baker Hughes Inc. of Houston.

Deutch, the former CIA director who sits on the board of Schlumberger, and officials at the firm's New York headquarters did not respond to requests for comment on their dealings with Iraq. A Halliburton spokesman, Guy Marcus, confirmed that two of his firm's former joint ventures--Dresser-Rand and Ingersoll-Dresser Pump--conducted business with Baghdad. "The joint ventures sold spare parts to Iraq through European subsidiaries," he said.

Marcus added, however, that Halliburton's share of both joint ventures was sold in the last two months to Ingersoll-Rand of Woodcliff Lake, N.J., which now wholly owns them. He also said that Cheney, the former secretary of defense, "was not involved in the management of either joint venture and was not involved in the decision to make such sales" to Iraq.

According to one diplomat at the United Nations, Dresser-Rand and Ingersoll-Dresser Pump signed $29 million in contracts for spare parts with Iraq through affiliates in Austria, France, Germany and Italy. Marcus said he did not know whether that figure was accurate.

Peg Hashem, a spokeswoman for Hamilton Sundstrand, confirmed that a French subsidiary, Dosapro Milton Roy, sold pumps for Iraqi water treatment plants in a contract worth "under $1 million." She said it was also possible that the firm had sold additional equipment to Iraq.

Spokesmen for Dresser-Rand, Dresser-Ingersoll Pump Co. and Baker Hughes did not respond to requests for comment on their ties to Iraq. But a Fisher-Rosemount spokesman, Walt Sharp, acknowledged that it has sold equipment to Iraq. Although he was not sure of the value of the contracts, he said, all the deals were approved by the Treasury Department and a U.N. Security Council sanctions committee.

[watermock]

can't we just shoot you and bring the uneployment rate down just a bit?

[watermock]

According to U.S. government figures, American firms account for only a tiny share of the nearly $10 billion in trade that has been conducted under the oil-for-food exemption.

"Golly Jeezers Wally, why do you think that is?"

"Well Beaver, you have to choose your friends wisely..."

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Bush can't name a mistake

Bush was asked to name three mistakes he's made. He can't name one. Breathtaking arrogance. He's had the hardest job in the world for almost four years and he cannot name a single mistake. Either he's the Second Coming of the Messiah, or he's so damned arrogant he's dangerous.

[watermock]

Just watch. This traitor will try to justify the Oil for Terrorism program.

Wait at watch. It's not even 10 Billion.

I gurantee it's at least 30 billion.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Battleground poll: Kerry regains lead

http://zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=879

[TomServo]

[TomServo]

Just ask Clintons main man dick morris. dont do anything to mess up the economy-especially confront terrorism. Clinton got his wish but never thought he would pay for it.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Then why did even Reagan's former counterterrorism chief state that Clinton was "obsessed" with getting Osama?

[TomServo]

dunno cause Osama murdered like 3000 americans?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Just ask Clintons main man dick morris. dont do anything to mess up the economy-especially confront terrorism. Clinton got his wish but never thought he would pay for it.

-Of Clinton's efforts says Robert Oakley, Reagan Ambassador for Counterterrorism: "Overall, I give them very high marks" and "The only major criticism I have is the obsession with Osama"

-Paul Bremer, current Civilian Administrator of Iraq disagrees slightly with Robert Oakley as he believed the Clinton Administration had "correctly focused on bin Laden.

-Barton Gellman in the Washington Post put it best, "By any measure available, Clinton left office having given greater priority to terrorism than any president before him" and was the "first administration to undertake a systematic anti-terrorist effort"

[TomServo]

is that why the clinton admin. was given bin laden on a platter not once but twice?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

9/11 Commission: Bush Could Have Prevented 9/11 Attacks

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003...ain589137.shtml

(CBS) For the first time, the chairman of the independent commission investigating the Sept. 11 attacks is saying publicly that 9/11 could have and should have been prevented, reports CBS News Correspondent Randall Pinkston.

"This is a very, very important part of history and we've got to tell it right," said Thomas Kean.

"As you read the report, you're going to have a pretty clear idea what wasn't done and what should have been done," he said. "This was not something that had to happen."

Appointed by the Bush administration, Kean, a former Republican governor of New Jersey, is now pointing fingers inside the administration and laying blame.

"There are people that, if I was doing the job, would certainly not be in the position they were in at that time because they failed. They simply failed," Kean said.

[TomServo]

Clinton admin 8 years bush admin 8 months

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

is that why the clinton admin. was given bin laden on a platter not once but twice?

Trying to make the '04 election a referendum on Clinton?

I guess playing the Clinton card is the first sign that a repub is getting desperate in his efforts to cover for the frat boy.

But I'll play:

9/11 Commission Report: "Osama offered to Clinton by Sudan" Claim is Bogus

By Scott C. Smith

Regular viewers of Hannity and Colmes on Fox News have heard Sean Hannity say on numerous occasions that the government of Sudan wanted to hand Osama bin Laden over to the United States "on a silver platter," only to have the offer rejected by the Clinton administration.

Hannity says this a lot. If the topic of the day is terrorism, it's a sure thing Sean Hannity will mention the alleged offer by Sudan to turn Osama bin Laden over to the United States.

Fox News analyst Mansoor Ijaz has made the claim that he brokered the deal to turn over bin Laden, as a sort of freelance diplomat.

Ijaz claims that in 1996, he opened talks with the government of Sudan. According to the December 5, 2001 Los Angeles Times, Ijaz says, "From 1996 to 1998, I opened unofficial channels between Sudan and the Clinton administration. I met with officials in both countries, including Clinton, U.S. National Security Advisor Samuel R. "Sandy" Berger and Sudan's president and intelligence chief. President Omar Hassan Ahmed Bashir, who wanted terrorism sanctions against Sudan lifted, offered the arrest and extradition of bin Laden and detailed intelligence data about the global networks constructed by Egypt's Islamic Jihad, Iran's Hezbollah and the Palestinian Hamas."



Was this a legitimate offer? According to the 9/11 Commission's final report, the answer is no.

In the 567-page report, the 9/11 Commission mentions Ijaz only once, as an end note on page 480: "In February 1997, the Sudanese sent letters to President Clinton and Secretary of State Allbright, extending an invitation for a U.S. counterterrorism inspection mission to visit Sudan. The Sudanese also used private U.S. citizens to pass along offers to cooperate...but these offers were dismissed because the National Security Council viewed Sudan as all talk and little action...U.S. officials also feared that the Sudanese would exploit any positive American responses..."

What about the claim, as articulated by Hannity on hundreds of occasions, that we were offered Osama bin Laden on a silver platter? The 9/11 Commission report says it never happened. From page 110 of the report:

"Sudan's minister of defense, Fatih Erwa, has claimed that Sudan offered to hand bin Laden over to the United States. The commission has found no credible evidence that this was so. U.S. Ambassador Timothy Carney had instructions only to push the Sudanese to expel bin Laden. Ambassador Carney had no legal basis to ask more from the Sudanese since, at the time, there was no indictment outstanding."

For years now, conservatives have battered Clinton over his "failure" to accept bin Laden on a "silver platter." Ijaz has made the cable news circuit on many occasions with his claim that he brokered a deal to hand over bin Laden.

Of course, conservatives have always believed the Ijaz story and never accepted the Clinton administration's explanation of the "offer." As Clinton National Security Advisor Sandy Berger wrote in the July 13, 2002 Washington Post: "Although less was known about Osama bin Laden in 1996, when he left Sudan, than has been learned since, U.S. officials pressed the Sudanese to end their support and sanctuary for bin Laden. But no senior Clinton administration official -- from the State Department, the CIA, the Defense Department or the National Security Council -- is aware of any offer by the Sudanese to turn bin Laden over to the United States..."

Berger also adds, "...that he (Ijaz) was not used as a channel of communication by the U.S. government to the Sudanese reflects the disinclination of any administration to use self-appointed diplomats to conduct official U.S. business -- given uncertainties over motivation and interest. Indeed, other governments complained to U.S. officials that Ijaz represented himself -- incorrectly -- as acting on behalf of the U.S. government."

To be fair, attempts were made in 1998 to capture bin Laden, and government agencies developed plans to do so. Following the 1998 embassy bombings in Africa, the Clinton administration decided to attack the camps bin Laden used with cruise missiles. The missiles were fired on August 20, 1998. According to the 9/11 report, bin Laden was missed by a few hours.

Conservatives like Hannity have said for years that the Clinton Administration did nothing to stop terrorism. The 9/11 Commission report shows the administration did take action against terrorists, and describes the Clinton Administration as being "obsessed" with capturing bin Laden.

Of course, in the world according to Sean Hannity and other conservatives, Bill Clinton took no action against terrorism, and it's doubtful the 9/11 report will change their minds.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Clinton admin 8 years bush admin 8 months

8 years of Clinton and 32 Americans killed by terrorism (mostly overseas.)

8 months of AWOL Boy and how many thousands died?

[TomServo]

i dont care for hannity hes not that funny LOL but that one guy "monsuuer" knows his stuff he says the clinton admin had Osama and blew it cause they didnt want to upset that great economy.

[TomServo]

OK lets play that game. jimmy carter: no deaths. the american status: no telling how damaged

[TomServo]

jimmy carter, 50 some hostages home safe. the rest of us:screwed forever.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

i dont care for hannity hes not that funny LOL but that one guy "monsuuer" knows his stuff he says the clinton admin had Osama and blew it cause they didnt want to upset that great economy.

Too bad this piece of right-wing propaganda has already been discredited by the 9/11 Commission.

OK lets play that game. jimmy carter: no deaths. the american status: no telling how damaged

LOL

Now the '04 election is a referendum on the Carter presidency.

Who's next? FDR?

The convoluted logic you have to use to be a bush supporter these days...

[TomServo]

Remember i asked for Clintons exact numbers at this time b4 his re election?

[TomServo]

i believe i asked for this info back in the first thread. someone give me the #'s. Clintons back in '96 and Bush's todays.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

What numbers?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

How sad and pathetic is it that all bush supporters can do is make the '04 election a referendum on Clinton?

That's what you call desperation.

[watermock]

It's not a referendum, it's a reminder dimwit.

[broncogary]

It's not a referendum, it's a reminder dimwit.

Finally, correct useage of the term "dimwit." :laugh:

[Nick C.]

Finally, correct useage of the term "dimwit." :laugh:
he throws it about enough.

[watermock]

It's just about the only one Taco still let's me use.

I think I can still use Dumbass. Feel better now?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

First net job loss since Herbert Hoover, and the bush fellators want to make it about (gasp) Clinton.

Who woulda thunk?

[watermock]

Unemployment is at 5.4 percent dimwit. That is well below Kennedy, Johnson, Carter and even Clinton averages.

That is with almost all women in the workforce. It's so amusing to cry foul with a 5.4 unempoyment rate. Shiat or get off the pot. The unemployment rate is 5.4. What part of this don't you understand?

[Rock Chalk]

wonder what his outlook would be if he was one of the Thousands without a job?

Hey cocks*cker. I was one of the people without a job that got a job.

Why? Becuase I went out and LOOKED for one.

[Nick C.]

Hey cocks*cker. I was one of the people without a job that got a job.

Why? Becuase I went out and LOOKED for one.

**********? that aint' very nice.

1) how long did it take you?
2) just cause you where able to find a job does not mean that everyone is able to Dimwit.