Oil Continues to rise...Bush Vulnerable.

[Kaylore]

Article (http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=568&u=/nm/20041007/bs_nm/markets_oil_dc_47&printer=1)

Oil Hits $53 a Barrel, Concern for Supply

2 hours, 1 minute ago

By Barbara Lewis

LONDON (Reuters) - Oil prices broke into fresh record territory on Thursday on concerns over tight winter heating fuel supplies and news that a strike in Nigeria had put some crude exports on hold.

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U.S. light crude futures rose 98 cents to a record $53 a barrel, marking a 60 percent surge so far this year. London's Brent crude also struck a record peak, rising $1.21 a barrel to $49.20.

Prices have rocketed as China's economic expansion drives the fastest demand growth in a generation, stretching world fuel supplies to the limit and leaving no cushion to cope with supply problems.

Traders are worried over threats to supply from Nigeria, Africa's biggest producer, which pumps high-quality crude prized for its yield of transportation fuels.

Independent port inspectors SGS said that Royal Dutch/Shell's (SHEL.L) Nigeria crude loadings will go "on hold" as a result of a two-day strike by Nigerian oil unions that started on Thursday.

SGS said the strike by the NUPENG and PENGASSAN unions was called to protest against Shell management plans. Shell pumps about a million barrels a day of Nigeria's 2.3 million bpd output.

Worries about a thin supply cushion have intensified after mid-September's Hurricane Ivan, which cut September U.S. crude production to its lowest in any month since 1950 and disrupted operations at refineries along the Gulf Coast.

About 478,000 barrels per day of crude output in the Gulf of Mexico, 28 percent of gulf production, remains shut due to storm damage and industry executives estimate it could take 45-90 days to restore supplies from offshore platforms.

The hurricane hit Gulf Coast refineries, where plants were still working at only 89 percent of capacity last week, hindering efforts to build refined product stocks for winter....

U.S. crude this year has averaged $39.52, up from $30.99 last year, which was already the highest in two decades, and a nearly three times 1998's average of $14.66 during the Asian financial crisis.

U.S. Federal Reserve (news - web sites) official Thomas Hoenig said on Wednesday that he was not unduly worried about the impact of high oil prices on either the U.S. economy or inflation.

In real terms, prices are still well below levels hit in 1979-1980 after the Iranian Revolution, when crude averaged $80, and sent world economy into recession.

"As long as oil prices don't get significantly higher than they are now, about $50 a barrel, their likely effects should remain relatively modest," said Hoenig.

Despite what some hard-core party loyalists would like to believe, This race is going to be close. Conspiracy theories and retarded rhetoric isn't changing any minds, but something like this could. The article suggests that we won't feel the effects until after the election, but that's not necessarily true.

Iraq's incoming supply is still in repair. Unless we look elsewere, or develop alternative ways to move around, there's potential for energy crisis 2.

This is the first real thing I've seen that could shape the election. Hopefully our President addresses it before it hits people's wallets.

Thoughts?

[Mile High Shack]

well my first thought is, it's gonna suck paying 2 bucks a gallon for gas again

2nd thought is, I thought Bush was controlling this so he would get elected again?

I guess that little conspiracy theory isn't quite valid eh?

[Rascal]

Maybe this should get people's attention that we need some other energy sources.

Build more nuclear power plants to have the electricity grid to have hydrogen fuel stations to power our new hydrogen cars. We are going to have to do this sooner or later, I would just like to do it sooner and not have to pay 5 bucks a gallon for gas.

[W*GS]

Geez, I wish folks wouldn't overlook these facts:

In real terms, prices are still well below levels hit in 1979-1980 after the Iranian Revolution, when crude averaged $80, and sent world economy into recession.

"As long as oil prices don't get significantly higher than they are now, about $50 a barrel, their likely effects should remain relatively modest," said Hoenig.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Geez, I wish folks wouldn't overlook these facts:
Tell me what is there to prevent oil from continuing to rise? I posted this before but with China, Malaysia, Vietnam, Indonesia and others entering the modern world, there is a REAL oil crunch with supplies not being able to keep up with demand.

[Kaylore]

Geez, I wish folks wouldn't overlook these facts:
That may be true, but you need to look at what was happening in the late sixties and seventies that set the crisis up. Bigger, monster cars were in high demand, and these require more gas (obviously).

Now SUV's are all the rage. I drive a Ford Explorer. The Hummer, originally a military vehicle, is being driven on open streets.

The one other element at play, is the fact that there are literaly billions of Chinesse rapidly modernizing in a very large and spacious country. They'll need energy too. Supply and demand, my friends, supply and demand.

[baja]

All you need to know is they are not making anymore fossle fual

[W*GS]

Supply and demand, my friends, supply and demand.

You mean it's not 100% a nefarious conspiracy run by Cheney (with Bush as his dunderhead figurehead) just to enrich all his oil friends?

Tsk, tsk.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

So what's Kerry going to do to bring the price of oil back down?

[W*GS]

So what's Kerry going to do to bring the price of oil back down?

Use his wife's (inherited) wealth to give all auto-owning Americans the money for the down payment on a Toyota Prius?

[Kaylore]

Use his wife's (inherited) wealth to give all auto-owning Americans the money for the down payment on a Toyota Prius?
They could develop a car that runs on Ketchup!

The left doesn't follow up their conspiracy theories. There is no oil coming out of Iraq, right now. But Bush went in for the oil...that he's not getting.

[Hogan11]

It's up to $2.07 here....rises 2 cents every other day.

People are not really all the understanding about the circumstances when the portion of the wallet fuel eats up continues to grow larger and larger...they want relief and they want it now.....and, sad to say, some will vote accordingly to that end because this is just another thing to throw on the "no" pile when they're asked if they're better off now than they were four years ago.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

You mean it's not 100% a nefarious conspiracy run by Cheney (with Bush as his dunderhead figurehead) just to enrich all his oil friends?

Tsk, tsk.

Are you denying that higher oil prices enrich Cheney and his cronies?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

There is no oil coming out of Iraq, right now.

An utterly false assertion. It's true that the instability in Iraq has resulted in fluctuation in production, but it's not true that there in NO oil coming out of Iraq.

But Bush went in for the oil...that he's not getting.

See above.

You can thank the neocons and the PNAC lunatics for this failure.

If bush and the rethugs had made an effort to come by Iraqi oil honestly, the situation might be different today (given that Iraq has the world's largest untapped oil reserves.)

[watermock]

So what's Kerry going to do to bring the price of oil back down?

Yeah, I have heard the great "energy policy" of Kerry.

Echo Echo Echo.

Bush keeps screaming that we need to do something, Kerry says conserve.

I say both, but we need to increase capacity.

What do you think the ole' wizard FDR would do?

He would damn well be making a plan to increase production (Alaska), making sure our electrical grid didn't collapse(nuclear) and damn well wouldn't be backing down to terrorists. (WW2)

Where has the Democratic Party gone?

When Kerry pulled Jesse Jackson the Extortionist into the fold I nearly threw up.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/graphics/baghdad_w.jpg

[W*GS]

Are you denying that higher oil prices enrich Cheney and his cronies?

I'm denying the whole thing is a conspiracy cooked up by Cheney and his pals.

[Spider]

One thing is for sure , I dont point and Laugh at Marks Yugo anymore .......

[OrangeDoofus]

Kaylore, what's up with you, man? You're actually posting news that could be bad for your side. People just don't do that on this forum. Learn the rules.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

I'm denying the whole thing is a conspiracy cooked up by Cheney and his pals.

Even though Cheney was showing his energy/oil cronies maps of the Iraqi oil fields during his pre-9/11 energy task force meeting?

Oil prices started to climb the minute Smirk & Sneer took office--before 9/11 and before the Iraq invasion.

[Hogan11]

$2.10 today.....highest I seen it was $2.12 a couple of towns over from mine.

[Kaylore]

Kaylore, what's up with you, man? You're actually posting news that could be bad for your side. People just don't do that on this forum. Learn the rules.
Lol, I try to be fair. I also try to point things out in elections that could be factors. Conspiracy theories never are, though obviously that hasn't stopped several people.

Oil prices increasing is a bigger problem than this election. Neither Kerry nor Bush will be able to stop the price climb.

[OrangeDoofus]

Oil prices increasing is a bigger problem than this election. Neither Kerry nor Bush will be able to stop the price climb.

I agree. Actually, I think there's a lot of bad news heading our way that President Whoever isn't going to be able to stop. From a political point of view I think winning the presidency this year could end up being kind of a booby prize, in that whoever wins is going to get blamed for a lot of stuff that's already on the way.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

From a political point of view I think winning the presidency this year could end up being kind of a booby prize, in that whoever wins is going to get blamed for a lot of stuff that's already on the way.

In many respects, Kerry's job will be to grab a shovel and clean up the mess created by bush and his corporate raider cronies (much like Clinton did for bush's felon daddy.)

The good news is that Clinton has already proven how it can be done.

As for the oil issue, only time will tell whether the shortages--present and future--are real or exaggerated.

[W*GS]

Oil prices started to climb the minute Smirk & Sneer took office--before 9/11 and before the Iraq invasion.

A simple chart (http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/chron.html) that I found via Google on "oil price graph" that amply disproves LABF. Once again, LABF's command of the facts is revealed to be 100% WRONG. Aren't you ever embarassed, LABF, to be shown wrong so many times, and so easily too?

Anyway, it's post hoc ergo propter hoc. How does the rise in China's oil imports figure into Cheney's machinations? Is he in cahoots with them, too?

[Hercules Rockefeller]

I agree. Actually, I think there's a lot of bad news heading our way that President Whoever isn't going to be able to stop. From a political point of view I think winning the presidency this year could end up being kind of a booby prize, in that whoever wins is going to get blamed for a lot of stuff that's already on the way.

Sort of like an economic downturn that started two full quarters before someone took office and a significant portion of job losses that resulted from it before that person's economic team was in place to institute his policies?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

A simple chart (http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/chron.html) that I found via Google on "oil price graph" that amply disproves LABF. Once again, LABF's command of the facts is revealed to be 100% WRONG. Aren't you ever embarassed, LABF, to be shown wrong so many times, and so easily too?

Another W*GS celebration of another imaginary W*GS victory.

Your simpleton chart is unnecessary: everyone here remembers what they were paying at the pump, I'm sure.

And no denial from you re: Cheney's energy task force meeting w/ his oil cronies?

Who woulda thunk?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Sort of like an economic downturn that started two full quarters before someone took office and a significant portion of job losses that resulted from it before that person's economic team was in place to institute his policies?

An "economic downturn" doesn't account for bush's trashing of the economy since he took office.

Smirk inherited a $5 trillion budget surplus (which he squandered on tax cuts for the already-wealthy.)

Anticipated response from W*GS of the elephant-shaped knee pads:

"There never was a surplus."

Then why did bush himself say he was going to use said surplus to pay for his tax cuts for the super-rich?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

A simple chart (http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/chron.html) that I found via Google on "oil price graph" that amply disproves LABF. Once again, LABF's command of the facts is revealed to be 100% WRONG. Aren't you ever embarassed, LABF, to be shown wrong so many times, and so easily too?

Two can play W*GS' kiddie game:

http://inflationdata.com/inflation/images/charts/Oil_inflation_20041817.gif

Well, what do you know? The graph shows a steady climb in price after Smirk & Sneer took office.

Now aren't you embarrassed?

http://inflationdata.com/inflation/images/charts/Oil_inflation_20041817.gif

[Spider]

Hilarious!
I dont think the high Prices are Bushs fault but that was a good comeback

[watermock]

http://inflationdata.com/inflation/images/charts/Oil_inflation_20041817.gif

All that says is that adjusted for inflation the median price has climbed. This isn't some sort of rocket science, it's called the 21'st century and the absence of nuclear electrical power.

There certainly is a spike involved. If Kerry is elected do you think the Nuclear Repository will go thru? Do you think he will start construction of safe, pellet technology nuclear plants? Do you think he will open up Alaska to Oil drilling?

What do you think he will do about the energy shortage? Tell us to build windmills?

[Cito Pelon]

Anybody that expects an economy fueled by oil or natural gas to be on top of the world in the year 3000 is going to be one of the losers in the year 3000.

This isn't too hard to figure out. When we're expounding the merits of extracting oil from the most inaccessible places on the planet, and kissing the ass of oil kingdoms, well obviously we have to change course.

The power-elite are not going to change course, they're going to limit your ability to access energy, thereby increasing their own access to energy. If I was one of the power-elite, I'd be trying to implement exactly the same strategy.

[W*GS]

Two can play W*GS' kiddie game:

http://inflationdata.com/inflation/images/charts/Oil_inflation_20041817.gif

Well, what do you know? The graph shows A simple chart (http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/chron.html) .

Now aren't you embarrassed?

Why should I be? The data from your graph is more or less the same as what I posted; there is no continuous climb in price from early 2000 to now. What it does show is a decline from early 2000 until about mid-2001, a small increase from then until early 2003, and a much steeper climb from then until the last data point shown.

Does anyone besides LABF see what he claims? I don't.

There's another chart at this site (http://www.wtrg.com/prices.htm) that has 1997-Oct 2003 prices for crude (which is what LABF was talking about) that also shows nothing remotely resembling a steady climb.

Prices are higher now than they were in early 2000, but a line connecting then and now is not a straight one, as LABF claims.

LABF, you've been caught in a flat-out lie.

[watermock]

Maybe we should ask Soros, who is heavily involved in buying short.

Why not look. He will dump right after the election.

You want to bet that oil goes to 38 after the election?

Just watch.

[watermock]

Oil is being pushed up by Soros.

Just watch. Oil will be 38 the day after the election.

[W*GS]

Another W*GS celebration of another imaginary W*GS victory.

Hunh? You claimed a "steady climb", and neither the graph I posted nor yours shows anything of the sort. Either your graph-reading skills are extremely poor, or, rather than admit error, you'll stick with being completely wrong on a plainly illustrated fact.

Your simpleton chart

It's not my "simpleton chart", it's from the US Department of Energy. Besides, all I needed was a simple line plot and it amply proved you wrong.

is unnecessary: everyone here remembers what they were paying at the pump, I'm sure.

Do you honestly think I wouldn't notice the shift from "oil price" to "paying at the pump", which is related, but not the same thing. Likewise, consumer gasoline prices have not shown a "steady climb" since January 2000, as you see at this site (http://oregonstate.edu/Dept/pol_sci/fac/sahr/gasol.htm) or this site (http://inflationdata.com/Inflation/Inflation_Rate/Gasoline_Inflation.asp), which, interestingly enough, is the same site you attempted to use to prove your original contention.

Just to make it clear - does anyone else see a "steady climb" in either crude oil prices or retail gasoline prices from Jan 2000 until now?

[watermock]

The democats don't even have a clue who is controlling them.

The Banner is the Incredulous Michael Moore, but the Meat and Potatoes are right in the hands of Soros. Just watch what happens next.

[JCMElway]

Use his wife's (inherited) wealth to give all auto-owning Americans the money for the down payment on a Toyota Prius?

Cars that run on ketchup! :giggle:

J

[Kaylore]

It's not my "simpleton chart", it's from the US Department of Energy. Besides, all I needed was a simple line plot and it amply proved you wrong.
This is just something he does. Everytime I've brought objective data that discounts something LABF says into an argument, he resorts to name calling of you and, hilariously, the data itself. Don't feel bad, the fact that its really all he can do speaks volumes.

[W*GS]

This is just something he does. Everytime I've brought objective data that discounts something LABF says into an argument, he resorts to name calling of you and, hilariously, the data itself. Don't feel bad, the fact that its really all he can do speaks volumes.

Nothing LABF does makes me "feel bad"; usually he provokes laughter, eye-rolling, head shaking, and something like this thing:saywhat:

[SJ Bronco]

All I know, I pay 30 cents more a gallon now than I did 3 days ago, in some cases 40, thats a pretty good spike and someone needs to do something. A neat issue this close to the domestic issues debate.