3 related marijuana deaths

[alkemical]

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/news/6324808.htm

Posted on Thu, Jul. 17, 2003

Police pilot killed in crash

MELISSA MANWARE

July 18, 2002

An off-duty Charlotte-Mecklenburg police sergeant and two other law enforcement officers were killed Wednesday during an air search for marijuana in Eastern North Carolina.

Sgt. Anthony Scott Futrell, a Charlotte-Mecklenburg police veteran, was flying a single-engine plane when it crashed in Chowan County - 240 miles northeast of Charlotte - at about 3:30 p.m., authorities said.

The flight was part of a statewide drug eradication program that uses small aircraft from the Civil Air Patrol for surveillance flights, Chowan County Sheriff Fred Spruill said.

Futrell had headed the Charlotte-Mecklenburg department's aviation unit since December, police said. Members of that unit, which patrols the county using two helicopters, were with Futrell's family late Wednesday.

"Scott was a good pilot. He's careful, competent and had a good bit of experience," said Charlotte-Mecklenburg police Capt. Mike Faulkenberry, a close friend who flew with Futrell in the Civil Air Patrol. "You realize it could happen, but I never would have dreamed this."

Futrell, who was in his late 30s, was married and had a 12-year-old son and 17-year-old daughter, Faulkenberry said. He joined the force before the city and county departments merged in 1993 and learned to fly in 1995 or 1996, Faulkenberry said.

"He was way beyond a good pilot," Faulkenberry said. "He was just a good guy. A leader. A motivator. He adored his family."

The National Transportation Safety Board and the Federal Aviation Administration were both investigating the crash, Spruill said.

Richard Edward Ashley Jr., a 34-year-old Chowan County sheriff's deputy, and Boone police Maj. Robert Kennedy, 46, also were killed in the crash.

Kennedy was the flight's trained spotter for marijuana plants, Spruill said. Ashley was to tell deputies on the ground the location of any drugs.

"This was a bad day for North Carolina," the sheriff said. "We lost three good men."

Witnesses said they heard the engine of the Cessna 172-S sputter and cut out just before it crashed in a cotton field at around 3:30 p.m., Spruill said.

There was no communication from the pilot that the plane was in trouble, he said.

"I don't think they had time to say anything," Spruill said.

The plane had made a flight earlier in the day without incident. It had been aloft about an hour in its second flight, he said.

It was one of two aircraft being used for drug surveillance flights.

The second plane, also being flown by law enforcement officers, returned to Northeastern Regional Airport in Edenton, where both planes had taken off earlier in the day.

[RunByDesign]

Maybe the price of weed will go down, now.

[RhymesayersDU]

I put down my bong just long enough to read this post.

[alkemical]

lol

[Rock Chalk]

:pity:

Hate to see law enforcement go down like that. My prayers are with their families.

And shame on you little punk kids for making light of 3 deaths.

And shame on you Josh for misleading me into clicking on this thread! tsk tsk

[Mile High Shack]

how is 2 kids without a father now funny?

not even close to cool

[Rascal]

Maybe the price of weed will go down, now.

Three policeman lose their lives and you are happy about it.

What an asshole.

[RunByDesign]

Both of you idiots can fook off.

The Drug War is a fooking joke.

The only two assholes are the two who can't take a joke and comprehend what they read.

Nobody forced those guys to fly a plane or become cops or plunge from the sky. They chose that path and I think it is funny that they would risk a choice like that over family for a misguided drug war and pride.

Just because you two neaderthals can't comprehend what the event actually represents, don't project the assinine workings of your inner mind onto me.

I would never give precedence to any choice associated with the risk of never seeing my family again. Especially a drug. That is what they did.

[Mile High Shack]

they are cops, it's their job

if you had a job, you'd understand

idiot

[RunByDesign]

how is 2 kids without a father now funny?

not even close to cool

Not funny but typical.

This is America.

Now shut up and go back to huffing gas.

[RunByDesign]

they are cops, it's their job

if you had a job, you'd understand

idiot
I have a job, hillbilly.

They chose that path, you know, kind of like how you choose to be a fool.

[Mile High Shack]

I hope your parents die so I can laugh at you

[RunByDesign]

I hope your parents die so I can laugh at you

You are entitled to. You have the right.

Now quit trying to distract me, fly.

[Mile High Shack]

I have a job, hillbilly.

They chose that path, you know, kind of like how you choose to be a fool.

I mean a real job nitwit, not just working at the local video store.

People have a right to make a living at to laugh at their death shows what kind of an idiot you are

now go make me a burger, the frys are getting cold

[RunByDesign]

I mean a real job nitwit, not just working at the local video store.

People have a right to make a living at to laugh at their death shows what kind of an idiot you are

now go make me a burger, the frys are getting cold

Hilarious! :stupid:

[Mile High Shack]

Hilarious! :stupid:

nice response

I heard some orphans just got ran over by a bus, care to laugh at that too?

after all, it was their choice to walk near the street.

[RunByDesign]

nice response

I heard some orphans just got ran over by a bus, care to laugh at that too?

after all, it was their choice to walk near the street.

I wouldn't laugh at that but I would laugh if you were the one who got run over by a bus. :woowoo:

[patteeu]

I don't think it is funny that these people lost their lives, but I do think the misleading title of the thread is kind of funny.

I think the war on drugs is a shame. I'm all for keeping the streets safe, but sending legions of drug users to prison so they can learn how to become real hardcore criminals seems like a bad idea to me. I think Nancy Reagan's "Just Say No" campaign was more effective than law enforcement efforts to curb drug abuse.

[Rascal]

Is this guy serious? This is the same freaking moron on the teams website. With characters like that no wonder people are leaving that place.

Look asshole. You might not agree with the war on drugs or the war on terror, but to go and be happy when two soldiers (policeman or actual soldiers) whose job it is to fight that war die then I'm ashamed that you consider yourself an American and a fellow Bronco fan.

Go jump off a cliff and make this world better.

[RunByDesign]

Go jump off a cliff and make this world better.

Actually, that is what would happen if it were you to do so. (make the world better.) I have exsposed you as nothing more than a boastful liar before. Your opinion matters little to me. You are a substandard human being, as far as I am concerned.

No need to even talk to me. If I wished to communicate to you, I would have done so previously. As you can see by this being the first time on this site, I do not hold you in high regard.

Now you and MHS go back to your circle jerk.

[Rascal]

Actually, that is what would happen if it were you to do so. (make the world better.)

Worst come back in history.

You've exposed me before as a boastful liar? BS.

I'm substandard to you? When you are happy when a policeman gets killed just doing their job because you don't agree with the war on terror? Yeah right.

If you don't want to talk to me then put me on ignore, otherwise STFU bitch.

You don't hold me in high regard...like I give a damn what you think.

[patteeu]

Actually, that is what would happen if it were you to do so. (make the world better.)

Woohoo! Are you going to pull out the "I'm rubber, you're glue..." smack next?

:nono:

[RunByDesign]

Actually, that is what would happen if it were you to do so. (make the world better.)

When you are happy when a policeman gets killed just doing their job because you don't agree with the war on terror? Yeah right.


Hey dumbf*ck, notice I never laughed at the thought of a policeman getting killed, you intellectual midget. Notice I only laughed at the thought of MHS getting run over by a bus. Also, the WOT has nothingto do with my opinion.

Again, quit projecting your inept interpretation onto me.

[RunByDesign]

Woohoo! Are you going to pull out the "I'm rubber, you're glue..." smack next?

:nono:
When you are communicating with someone who has the understanding of a child, it may warrant the occasion.

[RunByDesign]

Actually, that is what would happen if it were you to do so. (make the world better.)



If you don't want to talk to me then put me on ignore, otherwise STFU bitch.



Spoken like a true coward.

I have never used ignore and never will. You are the one who uses it to asisst your feeble minded arguments.

Quit projecting, numbnuts.

[Rascal]

Hey dumbf*ck, notice I never laughed at the thought of a policeman getting killed, you intellectual midget. Notice I only laughed at the thought of MHS getting run over by a bus. Also, the WOT has nothingto do with my opinion.

Again, quit projecting your inept interpretation onto me.

You said, "Maybe the price of weed will go down now".

That is laughing or at least ridiculing their service and death.

Again, if you don't want to respond to me put me on ignore. Otherwise STFU.

Not my fault you are too retarded to comprehend a simple sentence.

I'm not projecting anything moron, just stating the obvious facts.

[Mile High Shack]

Hey dumbf*ck, notice I never laughed at the thought of a policeman getting killed, you intellectual midget. Notice I only laughed at the thought of MHS getting run over by a bus. Also, the WOT has nothingto do with my opinion.

Again, quit projecting your inept interpretation onto me.

it's nice that you would laugh at my death.........it makes me feel good to know I have that much effect on you.

[Rascal]

Spoken like a true coward.

I have never used ignore and never will. You are the one who uses it to asisst your feeble minded arguments.

Quit projecting, numbnuts.

I don't have anybody on ignore actually.

Talk about projecting.

Guess I should add hypocritical to your description.

Nothing more pathetic then some moron trying to act tough behind a keyboard.

[RunByDesign]

I don't have anybody on ignore actually.

Talk about projecting.

Guess I should add hypocritical to your description.

Nothing more pathetic then some moron trying to act tough behind a keyboard.

I have read your posts here as well as B mania. You use it with regularity. Whenever your chest puffing and "I'm coming to your town, meet me at the aiport" farce wears off, you declare victory and put the other party on ignore.

You'd think a big guy wouldn't be such a pansie.

[RunByDesign]

it's nice that you would laugh at my death.........it makes me feel good to know I have that much effect on you.
In the same way I would laugh while squashing a fly.(more or less)

[Rascal]

I have read your posts here as well as B mania. You use it with regularity. Whenever your chest puffing and "I'm coming to your town, meet me at the aiport" farce wears off, you declare victory and put the other party on ignore.

You'd think a big guy wouldn't be such a pansie.

What are you talking about?

[patteeu]

Where are you from, RunByDesign? What was your native language?

[Mile High Shack]

In the same way I would laugh while squashing a fly.(more or less)

that's good that I'm that much in your head you think of me like that.

!Booya!

[Mile High Shack]

Where are you from, RunByDesign? What was your native language?

he is just some stupid kid who trys to act big and intelligent.

he has already said the fact that he is proud people think he is a know-it-all and most people don't like him.

aka band geek...very bitter b/c no one likes him, but thinks he's smart b/c he can blow a tuba.

[bendog]

yet there is no doubt an irony in 3 law enforcement guys dying (and not to mention the cost of flying the little druggie planes) to stamp out the dreaded weed when we have how many people dying/killing over booze and coke/crank. I'm sorry for the families, but what a futile loss.

[Mile High Shack]

agree bendog, it's irony, but it's not funny that 3 people lost their lives and now 2 kids don't have a father anymore.

[Falconer]

Both of you idiots can fook off.

The Drug War is a fooking joke.

The only two assholes are the two who can't take a joke and comprehend what they read.

Nobody forced those guys to fly a plane or become cops or plunge from the sky. They chose that path and I think it is funny that they would risk a choice like that over family for a misguided drug war and pride.

Just because you two neaderthals can't comprehend what the event actually represents, don't project the assinine workings of your inner mind onto me.

I would never give precedence to any choice associated with the risk of never seeing my family again. Especially a drug. That is what they did.

I guess that I am unable to comprehend what I read as well, because I see nothing remotely humorous about people losing their lives. According to your logic anyone that ever lost their life because of a choice they made would up for ridicule. Let's see nobody forced them to get in a plane, so I guess we can laugh and have a good time every time a commercial airline crashes. Nobody forced them to become cops and put their lives in danger, so let's make a joke about all of those cops and firefighters that lost their lives in the World Trade Center. And let us not forget to laugh at those kids who have severe brain damage because of meth; since we all know that the war on drugs is misguided.

It is truly your right to not give precedence to any choice associated with the risk of never seeing your family again. I however am thankful for those who risked their lives in the Revolutionary War, Civil War, WWI, WWII, and every other conflict that has threatened the very fabric of this country.

Maybe you believe that drugs should be legal, and that no one would be hurt if they were. However that should give you no right to make a joke out of people who are upholding the present laws of this country. Heck, I don't really care for speed limit laws, but I wouldn't laugh about a patrolman getting killed while trying to apprehend a person breaking the law.

[patteeu]

Off topic: Falconer, what's the story behind the kid in your avatar. I've seen him in several posters sigs/avatars around here.

[Captain_Poncho]

A couple of little kids without a dad is funny because the drug war is a joke?

How exactly does that work, RBD?

[bendog]

Off topic: Falconer, what's the story behind the kid in your avatar. I've seen him in several posters sigs/avatars around here.
Chekc out the "asking for your help" thread. Link below and if that doesn't work use the search the forum tool to find the thread by name

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=14953&highlight=falconer+son

[-Slap-]

yet there is no doubt an irony in 3 law enforcement guys dying (and not to mention the cost of flying the little druggie planes) to stamp out the dreaded weed when we have how many people dying/killing over booze and coke/crank. I'm sorry for the families, but what a futile loss.

I remember when I was about 20, a friend of mine joined the Sherrif's Department and he tried hard to recruit me. Basically, I thought that there's no way I'm going to risk getting shot over some damn drug deal. To me that would be like throwing away my life for nothing. Truly for nothing, since the flow of illegal drugs in this country will never end no matter what steps are taken by law enforcement.

[Spider]

Damn that Tommy Chong .We need to lock his ass up and get Cat Stevens off the plane .........

[Spider]

On the flip side , Martha Stewart is no longer on the street causing Chaos ...... It is a hard Job ........

[bendog]

Mrs Dog says, "that bitch, Martha, is going to come out of jail 50lbs lighter, tanned, rested and relaxed."

btw, somewhat related:

e world's largest brewer said Monday its planned offering — pronounced B-to-the-E, with the "E" denoting something "extra" and shown as an exponent of B — should appeal to 20-something consumers looking for something zippy in their highly social, fast-paced lifestyles.

The St. Louis-based brewer said the new "beer" — pending governmental approval — should debut in November against the backdrop of the company's existing line of Bacardi liquor-branded flavored malt beverages — or malternatives. The drink also faces competition from the ever-increasing line of alcohol-free energy drinks, such as Red Bull, often used as mixers in clubs.

Anheuser-Busch said each can of the B-to-the-E beverage would pack 22.5 carbs, along with 6.6 percent alcohol by volume, 54 milligrams of caffeine and 203 calories. By comparison, Anheuser-Busch's Bacardi Silver Low-Carb Black Cherry has 2.6 grams of carbs and 96 calories per 12-ounce serving.

"The majority of beer drinkers and the people we're trying to approach with this product are not concerned with carbs all the time," Bob Lachky, Anheuser-Busch's vice president of brand management, told reporters during a conference call.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=509&ncid=509&e=20&u=/ap/20041005/ap_on_bi_ge/new_beer

For *&*()(P*is sake! Why can't they make me something that has the calories/carbs of Coors Lt, tastes like Bud Fat and has 6.6% alc!!!!!?????

[DivineLegion]

Thats close to where I live...Whats funny is their radars cant pick up Marijuana when it it around Pinetrees...and if anyone has ever been to NC 9 out of every 10 trees are pine...Its sad that that plane whent down though it sucks when things like this happen. But seariously if they want to stop drug traficing in NC thier looking in all the wrong places. There is a big push for Coke in NC right now and Opiets is starting to seep into the school systems.

[alkemical]

see i started this thread for the irony, and look whoever said i misled them... kiss my ass...

we kill innocent people everyday in our wars and noone cares.

[Mile High Shack]

there isn't any innocent drug dealers IMO

[alkemical]

the us government sold lots of drugs and guns in order to have military operations

[bendog]

No one said it was funny that the cops died, but there were two funny retorts: Runbydesisgn with the darkly ironic "maybe the price of weed will ocme down," which of course it won't anymore than the efforts or the police to crack down on 'evil weed' are pathetic to start with; and Rhymessayer who said he put his bong down long enough to read the thread.

And the irony Ames is aiming for (-: is that flying in those planes is more dangerous than smoking a joint.

[alkemical]

if i said rack 'em dog, would you punch me :)

[bendog]

bad night to not be drinking, what with Cheney on the tv. I gotta good historical fiction book of Stanley in the deep dark Congo rescuing Emil Pasha, which apparanlty he did do, sort of. Maybe, with luck, I'll skip the debates.

[alkemical]

i see edwards as stillman (from the deadzone) & cheney as a lizard person

[RhymesayersDU]

The arguments going on in this thread would all be nullified if we just passed a joint around. This is not a joke about the cops dying, but seriously, I just think everybody needs to mellow out a little bit, get the munchies, and share some twinkies.

[RunByDesign]

You said, "Maybe the price of weed will go down now".

That is laughing or at least ridiculing their service and death.

Again, if you don't want to respond to me put me on ignore. Otherwise STFU.

Not my fault you are too retarded to comprehend a simple sentence.

I'm not projecting anything moron, just stating the obvious facts.

Since you say they are facts, they are facts?

**** you and your grandiose interpretation. It was not your thought, so you have no idea as to the true intent of my remark. I certainly haven't laughed ONE SINGLE TIME, inbred. But according to you and the retard, MHS, I am laughing.

Again, **** you and your projections. They aren't mine, they are yours. Your ideas and your projections/opinions.

The only ones here that is having trouble interpreting anything is you and the hillbilly, MHS.

So, in short, YOU STFU, pansie.

[RunByDesign]

Nothing more pathetic then some moron trying to act tough behind a keyboard.

You are the resident expert, you little wascal, you.

[RunByDesign]

we kill innocent people everyday in our wars and noone cares.

Exactly my ****ing point.

Too bad the resident hillbilly/inbreds MHS and wascal do not have the intellectual capacity to grasp this concept.

[RunByDesign]

he is just some stupid kid who trys to act big and intelligent.

he has already said the fact that he is proud people think he is a know-it-all and most people don't like him.

aka band geek...very bitter b/c no one likes him, but thinks he's smart b/c he can blow a tuba.

Gee, this really hurts coming from an inbred/hillbilly.

I think I'll go cry now. :clown:

[RunByDesign]

agree bendog, it's irony, but it's not funny that 3 people lost their lives and now 2 kids don't have a father anymore.

Not funny, but as I tried to explain to your stupid ass earlier, it is typical.

[RunByDesign]

No one said it was funny that the cops died, but there were two funny retorts: Runbydesisgn with the darkly ironic "maybe the price of weed will ocme down," which of course it won't anymore than the efforts or the police to crack down on 'evil weed' are pathetic to start with; and Rhymessayer who said he put his bong down long enough to read the thread.

And the irony Ames is aiming for (-: is that flying in those planes is more dangerous than smoking a joint.

Holy shat. Someone with a conceptual undestanding of the thread and it's intial posts.

What a world.

Hey hillbillies: (wascal and MHS) see, this is what it is like when you can actually comprehend/interpret what you read.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Not funny but typical.

This is America.

Now shut up and go back to huffing gas.

LOL!

I had him pegged as a model airplane glue man.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Gee, this really hurts coming from an inbred/hillbilly.

I think I'll go cry now. :clown:

:laugh:

I think I found a picture of the guy who's busting your chops, RBD:

http://www.newsfrombabylon.com/images/articles/cletus.jpg

[Mile High Shack]

Since you say they are facts, they are facts?

**** you and your grandiose interpretation. It was not your thought, so you have no idea as to the true intent of my remark. I certainly haven't laughed ONE SINGLE TIME, inbred. But according to you and the retard, MHS, I am laughing.

Again, **** you and your projections. They aren't mine, they are yours. Your ideas and your projections/opinions.

The only ones here that is having trouble interpreting anything is you and the hillbilly, MHS.

So, in short, YOU STFU, pansie.

how am I a hillbilly?

I grew up in MT, went to college in Oklahoma and now I have a masters degree in CIS? You know of many "hillbillys" that have that? I just am astounded you can call me a hillbilly, I don't think I've ever been called that before....

but I'm a hillbilly? I don't get that, just b/c I happen to live in Oklahoma I'm a hillbilly? talk about conjecture and posturing, your an absolute jackass.

maybe you should go to www.factcheck.org, eh?

[Mile High Shack]

Holy shat. Someone with a conceptual undestanding of the thread and it's intial posts.

What a world.

Hey hillbillies: (wascal and MHS) see, this is what it is like when you can actually comprehend/interpret what you read.

LOL, name calling, that's great, I love it, considering you've never met me, but yet you can call me a hillbilly???

LOL

[Rascal]

Since you say they are facts, they are facts?

**** you and your grandiose interpretation. It was not your thought, so you have no idea as to the true intent of my remark. I certainly haven't laughed ONE SINGLE TIME, inbred. But according to you and the retard, MHS, I am laughing.

Again, **** you and your projections. They aren't mine, they are yours. Your ideas and your projections/opinions.

The only ones here that is having trouble interpreting anything is you and the hillbilly, MHS.

So, in short, YOU STFU, pansie.


I'm a hillbilly and an inbred? You got all that from my posts. Wow.

You've never seen me or my parents and yet you come up with that. First off I'm not from Arkansas, but Colorado. Not that your location determines your "inbred" status anyway. Furthemore, I'm a mechanical engineering working for the government. I'm pretty sure that elminates all hillbilly possibilities. If not then the # of computers at my house should, as well as the fact I don't have an engine in my front yard or a rusted out car.

So what do you do for a living?

[Mile High Shack]

I'm a hillbilly and an inbred? You got all that from my posts. Wow.

You've never seen me or my parents and yet you come up with that. First off I'm not from Arkansas, but Colorado. Not that your location determines your "inbred" status anyway. Furthemore, I'm a mechanical engineering working for the government. I'm pretty sure that elminates all hillbilly possibilities. If not then the # of computers at my house should, as well as the fact I don't have an engine in my front yard or a rusted out car.

So what do you do for a living?

he might have me, I have a 78 Camaro, so I guess that makes me a hillbilly??

I need to grow a mullet though

[baja]

how am I a hillbilly?

I grew up in MT, went to college in Oklahoma and now I have a masters degree in CIS? You know of many "hillbillys" that have that? I just am astounded you can call me a hillbilly, I don't think I've ever been called that before....

but I'm a hillbilly? I don't get that, just b/c I happen to live in Oklahoma I'm a hillbilly? talk about conjecture and posturing, your an absolute jackass.

maybe you should go to www.factcheck.org, eh?

OK maybe I'm alittle out of touch what is 'CIS'

[Mile High Shack]

OK maybe I'm alittle out of touch what is 'CIS'

computer info systems

[Rascal]

OK maybe I'm alittle out of touch what is 'CIS'


HERE IS YOUR HILLBILLY!!!!

[bendog]

Isn't one of those "cop" shows called CIS?

[RunByDesign]

I'm a hillbilly and an inbred? You got all that from my posts. Wow.

You've never seen me or my parents and yet you come up with that. First off I'm not from Arkansas, but Colorado. Not that your location determines your "inbred" status anyway. Furthemore, I'm a mechanical engineering working for the government. I'm pretty sure that elminates all hillbilly possibilities. If not then the # of computers at my house should, as well as the fact I don't have an engine in my front yard or a rusted out car.

So what do you do for a living?

Ahh...deflection and avoidance are wonderful tools for you...but not honest tools. :stuck:

[Mile High Shack]

Isn't one of those "cop" shows called CIS?

CSI

[Mile High Shack]

Ahh...deflection and avoidance are wonderful tools for you...but not honest tools. :stuck:

way to answer the question when you attack someone personally

[RunByDesign]

how am I a hillbilly?

I grew up in MT, went to college in Oklahoma and now I have a masters degree in CIS? You know of many "hillbillys" that have that? I just am astounded you can call me a hillbilly, I don't think I've ever been called that before....

but I'm a hillbilly? I don't get that, just b/c I happen to live in Oklahoma I'm a hillbilly? talk about conjecture and posturing, your an absolute jackass.

maybe you should go to eh?

:gripe:

Feel free to untwist your panties anytime.

[RunByDesign]

way to answer the question when you attack someone personally

A personal attack would imply that I am trying to pass an assertion off as truth.

I have not engaged in such an activity. I am merely slinging mud. If you want to take it personal, go right ahead.

:spit:

[bendog]

wow, is run by design disagreeing with both MHShack and LABF at the same time?

[Mile High Shack]

A personal attack would imply that I am trying to pass an assertion off as truth.

I have not engaged in such an activity. I am merely slinging mud. If you want to take it personal, go right ahead.

:spit:

nice spin...when confronted with the truth you ignore your hillbilly comment.........figures, typical of someone who can't debate facts, they sling mud.

I honestly don't know why I bothered with you NOR do I understand your belief that your above everyone. It's obvious from your posts you have about as much knowledge as the local village idiot. You'll get no further comment from me, I can't believe I wasted 10 min. of my life on you.

[bendog]

The arguments going on in this thread would all be nullified if we just passed a joint around. This is not a joke about the cops dying, but seriously, I just think everybody needs to mellow out a little bit, get the munchies, and share some twinkies.

I'd get fired. And wouldn't get unemployment. But it's a thought.

[Falconer]

No one said it was funny that the cops died, but there were two funny retorts: Runbydesisgn with the darkly ironic "maybe the price of weed will ocme down," which of course it won't anymore than the efforts or the police to crack down on 'evil weed' are pathetic to start with; and Rhymessayer who said he put his bong down long enough to read the thread.

And the irony Ames is aiming for (-: is that flying in those planes is more dangerous than smoking a joint.

I find that we think along the same lines a lot of the time bendog, but not this time. Although the posts did not say that they thought it was funny that the cops died, the humor that was displayed over their deaths was very inappropriate to me. I also don't think that I'm being overly sensitive to this issue as for the most part I have pretty thick skin. I mean you know the story with Samuel, and I don't get offended by comments made in jest about being a moron, retard, or brainless.

I just found the humor displayed to be lacking any kind of class (which I probably could have let slide), and then the defense of their humor lacking at best. You may be right about the irony of the situation, but there are many ironic situations that are just not found humorous in any way.

[Exile_In_SJ]

simple solution to end these type of tragedies.

Legalize all drugs, then tax the sh*t out of them based on popularity. The tax revenues would be fantastic.

put a small amount of that revenue into treatment centers, but not too much.

The money we save in fighting the drug war could be better used elsewhere, like closing and regulating the borders, etc..

Legalize all drugs and tax them heavily.

[Exile_In_SJ]

then the feds could still look for hidden marijuana fields, but not to burn them, but to seize them for tax fraud and then us the product for medicinal marijuana.

[baja]

simple solution to end these type of tragedies.

Legalize all drugs, then tax the sh*t out of them based on popularity. The tax revenues would be fantastic.

put a small amount of that revenue into treatment centers, but not too much.

The money we save in fighting the drug war could be better used elsewhere, like closing and regulating the borders, etc..

Legalize all drugs and tax them heavily.

I agree with the condition of spending enough on education and rehap to offer real help.

[RhymesayersDU]

I'd get fired. And wouldn't get unemployment. But it's a thought.


Well, we wouldn't want you to get fired. I'll smoke enough for you and me though, so don't worry. :)

[baja]

I smoked pot for 30 years sure glad I don't do that anymore what a huge improvement in my life to get that out of my system. HUGE!!

[alkemical]

if theres no humor in irony... that'd be ironic...

[Falconer]

if theres no humor in irony... that'd be ironic...

That is true if you are using irony in the sense of satire, but that is not the only use of the word irony. It can be also used in the sense of a paradox, or quirk of fate. An example of that would be a person who believes that the one thing he can rely on is his intellect, then two months after his son is born he finds out his son is profoundly mentally retarded. I see some irony there; maybe you can find the humor for me.

[RunByDesign]

wow, is run by design disagreeing with both MHShack and LABF at the same time?

Not at all. You are reading into it, to a fault. Notice that MHS is the one being quoted.

This is all a game. Just a game. You can take it serious if you want. I got the responses I was fishing for.

In case you haven't noticed, internet MB's are sufficient outlets for stress.

[RunByDesign]

nice spin...when confronted with the truth you ignore your hillbilly comment.........figures, typical of someone who can't debate facts, they sling mud.

I honestly don't know why I bothered with you NOR do I understand your belief that your above everyone. It's obvious from your posts you have about as much knowledge as the local village idiot. You'll get no further comment from me, I can't believe I wasted 10 min. of my life on you.

:thumbs:

[Mile High Shack]

I smoked pot for 30 years sure glad I don't do that anymore what a huge improvement in my life to get that out of my system. HUGE!!

i'd like to thank pot for making my GPA in college drop from 3.8 to 2.6 and ending up working in a crappy job at first

not that I didn't have fun, but man looking back, I sure wish I would've studied more.

[bendog]

If this were an outlet for stress I'd be able to feed two co-workers into this thing like a frigging wood chipper! (-:

[RunByDesign]

Blaming pot for anything is a typical unaccountable lie.

People are the ones who make the choice to use pot, so blaming anything on it simply shows how unwilling a person is to accept the responsibility for ones' own deeds.

[bendog]

Now I really need a drink

[Exile_In_SJ]

I need a nap

[alkemical]

That is true if you are using irony in the sense of satire, but that is not the only use of the word irony. It can be also used in the sense of a paradox, or quirk of fate. An example of that would be a person who believes that the one thing he can rely on is his intellect, then two months after his son is born he finds out his son is profoundly mentally retarded. I see some irony there; maybe you can find the humor for me.


what you described would be what i say is humor from god.

or karma :)

[bendog]

there you go. I certainly see irony in my dad's death, and more pertinently my FIL's. The futility in their lives. We are all, or will be, literally fatherless sons and daughters.

[Falconer]

what you described would be what i say is humor from god.

or karma :)

Wow, glad to know that you have an idea of what humors God. That is a cop out. We can use those answers to justify just about anything that has been done. No, I want you to tell me what is humorous about this situation in your own words, not by invoking something that we have no idea about.

The main point was that you are using one definition of irony when you imply that it must be humorous, but that is not always the case.

[bendog]

"humor from god" is what Ames psoted NOT what humors god.

I realize this is cutting rather close to the bone for you falconer, but I also know this close rather cuts to the bone for Ames, though I won't go into details. On the old dpo board I had something of a crisis of faith with my FIL's passing. Essentially, I am back to Darwin's (a good Anglican theologian) dilemma: how can a kind and loving god create "life" as we know it? There are a variety of answers to this question, but imo all of them boil down to a sort of view of that what we perceive as tragedy in this life are really - somehow - not the reality of the cosmos. Spirit or something transends tragedy. But that has its humorous aspects, even in a religious sense, as illustrated by the books by the Australian writer Peter Carey.

Or, I suppose one can believe what we see is what we get,and it's up to humans to make stuff as "right" as possible, and our miserable failures are monuments to human stupidity, such as 'the war on drugs.' There's a dark humor to that too, but I find it very depressing to think about.

[alkemical]

because for someone to think they can only depend on intellect, they will be given a lesson that maybe they need. maybe they need to learn from someone who is only capable of love.

my dad died when i was 7, and ironically - it was what was Best.

[alkemical]

there you go. I certainly see irony in my dad's death, and more pertinently my FIL's. The futility in their lives. We are all, or will be, literally fatherless sons and daughters.


are we not out own prophets, dog? :)

i said before i went to sEattle - i'll be a rock star, or i'll be homeless

[bendog]

I'm workin' on it dammit (="

[Falconer]

"humor from god" is what Ames psoted NOT what humors god.

I realize this is cutting rather close to the bone for you falconer, but I also know this close rather cuts to the bone for Ames, though I won't go into details. On the old dpo board I had something of a crisis of faith with my FIL's passing. Essentially, I am back to Darwin's (a good Anglican theologian) dilemma: how can a kind and loving god create "life" as we know it? There are a variety of answers to this question, but imo all of them boil down to a sort of view of that what we perceive as tragedy in this life are really - somehow - not the reality of the cosmos. Spirit or something transends tragedy. But that has its humorous aspects, even in a religious sense, as illustrated by the books by the Australian writer Peter Carey.

Or, I suppose one can believe what we see is what we get,and it's up to humans to make stuff as "right" as possible, and our miserable failures are monuments to human stupidity, such as 'the war on drugs.' There's a dark humor to that too, but I find it very depressing to think about.

I don't know, I think this is cutting it pretty close but not because of what you think. You would have to know the mind of God to understand what humors him, or what reason that he would have to do it. I am not saying that there are no reasons for what happened, and I have certainly stated that I found it to be ironic. I have no wavering in my faith and believe sincerely that I have found more good in this than I could ever have imagined. However, although I find the whole situation ironic, I do not find it humorous. This was the point I was trying to make. Something can ironic without it being humorous.

While I'm at it I will tackle the next post as well. I am well aware of my shortcomings and I do indeed believe that Sam is teaching me things each and everyday. Things could even be thought of as "for the best"; although I hate using that well worn phrase. I still want you to tell me what is funny on nothing more than a secular level, unless you believe that the two can be mutually exclusive at times.

[Falconer]

"humor from god" is what Ames psoted NOT what humors god.

I realize this is cutting rather close to the bone for you falconer, but I also know this close rather cuts to the bone for Ames, though I won't go into details. On the old dpo board I had something of a crisis of faith with my FIL's passing. Essentially, I am back to Darwin's (a good Anglican theologian) dilemma: how can a kind and loving god create "life" as we know it? There are a variety of answers to this question, but imo all of them boil down to a sort of view of that what we perceive as tragedy in this life are really - somehow - not the reality of the cosmos. Spirit or something transends tragedy. But that has its humorous aspects, even in a religious sense, as illustrated by the books by the Australian writer Peter Carey.

Or, I suppose one can believe what we see is what we get,and it's up to humans to make stuff as "right" as possible, and our miserable failures are monuments to human stupidity, such as 'the war on drugs.' There's a dark humor to that too, but I find it very depressing to think about.

By the way please don't worry about cutting it close for me, as I was the one who brought it up. If I cannot handle the heat, then I have no business being in the kitchen. I'm actually pretty good at seperating myself emotionally from debates. Thanks for thinking of me though!

[alkemical]

because of being a "victim" if you will of irony, i've learned that humor is often found outside of ego

[bendog]

I sort of agree with baja - and my own religion/faith - that ultimately all of us, and maybe all life, are somehow connected in the cosmos. I don't really hazard any guess futher as to the details.

Our lives are decided by the risks we take as much as the goals we choose. So yes, we prophesy, or choose, or own outcomes. Though, will my Kid inherit my tendecies to depression/substances? Who knows. My goal is just to keep sober enough to keep from having to do that reconcillation thing in the 12 steps with my Kid, and see her to a happy adulthood, leave her well enough off and educated to have more choices than I did, and have some fun and do a little good along the way. And, Mrs. Dog can just piss off if she doesn't like it (-:

I don't believe that I can know what is really "best," as you describe your Dad's passing, or how my father would say "ah, well all's for the best." I don't know whether stuff in my life has worked out "for the best," or not. I certainly don't think God has ****e to do in deciding stuff like this. It is what it is.

We decide what we are willing "wager" risk for in this life. And, I don't mean that really personally towards you. My mother risked all to buy into having a family. There were many ironies, as the man whom she left for my father turned out to be a great dad, and a rich sob to boot. My father was a mench, no more, no less. I like being friends with Mrs Dog. I should get a new job and make more money. I guess that's all I know. LOL

[alkemical]

lol dog,

i believe in the fundamental connectedness of it as well. i also believe you're decisions and risks play into... but maybe those are our lessons.

on the depression/substance & passing it on. i come from a family that has mental illness - i'm scared if i had a kid if it'd skip me and go to them... maybe they'd be autistic... maybe they'd keep inside & let it rot their heart...

maybe i shouldn't have kids... i didn't have a dad, so how can i be a dad?

[Mile High Shack]

I have an interesting discussion on God and suffering if you'd like me to share it...it's long though and in outline form

[alkemical]

mhs,

if its short and in your own thoughts i'd read it.

mostly cuz my perception on what this discussion so far is, in a way what a prodestant mini told me when my dad died "god works in mysterious ways"


i'm not a prodestant anymore - i'm a qbl-ist now. (gnostic beliefs).

[Falconer]

because of being a "victim" if you will of irony, i've learned that humor is often found outside of ego

I will buy your definition with the exception that you are talking about a kind of humor that is not what most people think of when humor comes to mind. You are describing a philosophical kind of humor that is outside the construct of everyday humor.

[Falconer]

I have an interesting discussion on God and suffering if you'd like me to share it...it's long though and in outline form

I wouldn't mind reading it, but if nobody else here wants to read it you can PM it to me.

[alkemical]

I will buy your definition with the exception that you are talking about a kind of humor that is not what most people think of when humor comes to mind. You are describing a philosophical kind of humor that is outside the construct of everyday humor.


that's it. it is easy to Not step outside of yourself and not see the everyday lessons afforded to us. with the title of the thread for instance - these guys weren't using pot & died because of it. flying a plane imo is more dangerous than a bong hit.

but i'd not mind reading mhs's thingy, but i don't want it to be a cut & paste job he got from somewhere else, i want it to be "from him".

being a drummer - i hate covers if they are note for note. put yourself into it and make part of who you are

[bendog]

1. MHS, no pdf files, please (-:

2. Ames, I didn't mean to dismiss the risk; I tried to do the opposite. If I knew I had a gene for autism, I certainly wouldn't procreate. However, my father's father died when he was 8, and the lack of a father didn't make him less of a good father. He came from grinding poverty, and he confused love with dependence his entire life. Though, he had only a 6th grade, if that, education. I sort of miss him sometimes. He was a lot of fun at parties .... sometimes.

3. Falconer, My neighbors who moved a year ago married as HS sweethearts - the prom royalty - and promptly had the most severly autistic child I have seen, and I've seen some. They certainly didn't expect that. My neighbor used to say "those AA guys are pussys, I got alcoholism the real man's way." Living next door to them was a real prize bitch. She's married to a guy who owns an insurance agency, and at a party at the folks house next door to them (on the other side of their house from the first neighbors) she fell and broke her wrist, and she sued her neighbors. She used to complain to the autistic kid's parents that the child's wailing (and by god she wailed) was annoying to her. When my neighbors moved, they sold their house to a flaming gay couple.

4. I cannot say I find humor in every ironic situation. But, I only learned how to really pick up chicks by becoming so depressed I was both impotent and suicidal, and then I stopped picking up chicks. The line between tragedy and comedy is very, very thin. Jackie Gleason, who in the honeymooners was a parody of my Dad, sometimes stepped outside his "star personna" and touched on that. The movie with natalie portman "the professional" touched on that. However, some things are too close even for me to laugh at myself, and I have a very blessed and easy life - aside from the two dip****s who've ruined this job and who should be killed. (-:

5. I couldn't hazard a guess as to what God/gods find humorous. The concept of a supreme being who has some human traits like love or anger or even forgiveness, etc is beyond my ability to grasp. But, if you believe in such a God, I honestly admit that its very likely my lack of perception rather than you being wrong.

6. Falconer, I pray for you and your family

6. Adious, Cheers is open. (-:

[baja]

Blaming pot for anything is a typical unaccountable lie.

People are the ones who make the choice to use pot, so blaming anything on it simply shows how unwilling a person is to accept the responsibility for ones' own deeds.

Thanks for clearing that up for us, now would you like a sharpe stick in the eye we won't blame the stick.

[Rock Chalk]

Legalizing drugs is not the answer.

I smoke weed but I certainly dont want it legalized. It took me years of self-loathing, unambition and decadent decay of my life before I realized weed was the problem.

No, I didnt quit. But I did manage to keep it down to a dull roar. Smoke before bed, never at work or before work or before anything I have to take care of.

The problem is, MOST people cant do that. MOST people abuse drugs. MOST people become menace's. Drugs lead to theft, battery, armed robbery, and homicide. Legalizing them does not give drug abusers money to buy it. Legalizing only makes it easier to get. It doesn't solve any problems. What criminals are no longer locked up because its legal are ten fold increased due to the OTHER crimes (usually far more serious crimes) committed to get the money to pay for their legal drugs.

Taxing it is not the answer either. One, you are taxing someone for the governments benefit to the individual's detriment. Education is the only way to solve this problem. Just Say No, Your Brain on Drugs, these are moronic attempts to education people.

Want to really educate people on drugs? Take them to NYC, show them the homeless hopheads and crackheads wandering half-dazed through the city.

Show them the criminals spending 20 to life in prison for killing someone for 20 bucks to get a rock.

Show the people the after effects of drugs.

Ever seen someone who took too much acid or mushrooms? Ever seen a crackhead with three kids throw away everything for another hit? Legalizing this is going to make the world a better place?

Get off the drugs you are on, they are clearly hampering your judgement.

[baja]

"humor from god" is what Ames psoted NOT what humors god.

I realize this is cutting rather close to the bone for you falconer, but I also know this close rather cuts to the bone for Ames, though I won't go into details. On the old dpo board I had something of a crisis of faith with my FIL's passing. Essentially, I am back to Darwin's (a good Anglican theologian) dilemma: how can a kind and loving god create "life" as we know it? There are a variety of answers to this question, but imo all of them boil down to a sort of view of that what we perceive as tragedy in this life are really - somehow - not the reality of the cosmos. Spirit or something transends tragedy. But that has its humorous aspects, even in a religious sense, as illustrated by the books by the Australian writer Peter Carey.

Or, I suppose one can believe what we see is what we get,and it's up to humans to make stuff as "right" as possible, and our miserable failures are monuments to human stupidity, such as 'the war on drugs.' There's a dark humor to that too, but I find it very depressing to think about.

Bendog I have come across a book that you absolutely must read. "The Disappearance of the Universe" by Gary Renard. It is difficult to find but worth the hunt. I hope you chose to get it as I think you ill find the answer to your most basic question. Besides I would love to discuss it with you.

Actually it's on Amazon

[alkemical]

yours too :)

[baja]

Yes indeed!!

[baja]

You know the book Josh?

[alkemical]

yep

i'm more into regardie & ae waite though

[baja]

Oh ya, what's that

[alkemical]

authors whose books i prefer more

[baja]

You mean this;

The Middle Pillar: The Balance Between Mind and Magic

[baja]

Or this;

The Art of True Healing: The Unlimited Power of Prayer and Visualization

[baja]

or this'

Book of Black Magic and Ceremonial Magic

[alkemical]

tthe pillar books

[baja]

Oh ya I remember you talking about them now.

You have been studing them for about a year now right?

[alkemical]

Oh ya I remember you talking about them now.

You have been studing them for about a year now right?


4yrs total

[RunByDesign]

Thanks for clearing that up for us, now would you like a sharpe stick in the eye we won't blame the stick.

:parrot:

[FADERPROOF]

"It's not a war on drugs, it's a war on personal freedom."

[Mile High Shack]

suffering....when it comes to whether or not God exists is a touchy subject I know.

I know about suffering....my brother David has schizophrenia, he was diagnosed when he was 18 (he is 44 now...still lives with my parents) and his life...and thusly my parents life as well, have been hell since. We are faithful christians though dispite this...we ask God EVERY day to cure David, or at least ease his pain. I'm not going to go through the whole list, but my parents have put their whole life into trying to get him better, for their detrement as well, my dad is 67 and still has to work full time job for $$...ANYWAY, I'm just setting it up so you all know that I know about suffering. I think mental anguish is almost the worst......

so you might ask, if God is real and he loves me...why wouldn't he want me to be happy? God can do anything he wants...so why can't he make me happy!!!

God doesn't work like that though...here is why, we as humans are too simple to understand what God's love is really like w/o looking in the scriptures. (example Gen 22:12---abrham was asked to sacrifice his only son...or Gen 50:20..the story of Jospeh and the crap he went through...and let's not forget Job--God never explained why Job suffered)

These scriptures kind of tell us the love of God can be hard on the ones he loves the most.

people say b/c of suffering God doesn't exist...here is why that is wrong (I'll shorten this up, I'm going long)

How could we find out whether or nto God would allow suffering? If we admit that he might allow some, how can we as limited mortals know how much is too much? We can not comprhend God's thinking....he is all knowing and all powerful and he is the ultimate source for our thinking abilities...so we can only know about him what he wants us to know. We can put things under a microscope, but we cant do that with God.

God allows suffering in many cases for a greater good also.......for example, open heart surgery to repair a heart causes GREAT pain, but in the end it heals the person.

so according to strict logic (not emotion) we can refute the logical arugment from suffering the minute there is proof that some good can outweigh the amount of suffering in the world....but that is just the tip of the iceberg.

for the greater good....more suffering can be allowed....for example a football coach will ride his best player more and get him to work harder for his greater good.

anyway that is just some of my thoughts as I study...I have a lot more, but this is getting long....let me just say, we can't put God in a box and expect him to think that OUR way is the best way, in the end lots of suffering produces a greater good in the long run.

[Rohirrim]

I don't know if pot can kill you, but the right mixture of Twinkies and Cheetohs could probably do you in.

[bendog]

Bendog I have come across a book that you absolutely must read. "The Disappearance of the Universe" by Gary Renard. It is difficult to find but worth the hunt. I hope you chose to get it as I think you ill find the answer to your most basic question. Besides I would love to discuss it with you.

Actually it's on Amazon

I've got King's biography of Mary Magdalene up next, but I've printed out the cite and I'll put it with my Amazon stuff. I'll be putting in an order sometime for Little Girl Dog's Xmas books and grouping it for the free shipping.

PS, http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20041007/ts_nm/pope_communism_dc

[alkemical]

mhs,

what you typed is what buddists call dukka

[Mile High Shack]

mhs,

what you typed is what buddists call dukka

que es el dukka?

[alkemical]

suffering is life, without suffering there is no growth.

[baja]

What is it we are growing to

[bendog]

counterpart for the pretty traditional christian view that evil (or suffering) exists because by accepting love for the son of man (the lowest of all humans) evil or suffering would cease.

However, in point of fact, suffering would not cease, because mankind cannot cure falconers son, or autism or schizophrenia.

[alkemical]

What is it we are growing to


how can i answer that baja, for everyone its different

[Falconer]

counterpart for the pretty traditional christian view that evil (or suffering) exists because by accepting love for the son of man (the lowest of all humans) evil or suffering would cease.

However, in point of fact, suffering would not cease, because mankind cannot cure falconers son, or autism or schizophrenia.

I would not say that is the traditional Christian view if they are using scripture as their guide. It is pretty apparent after reading the bible that Christians are not exempt from hardship. I mean even Paul is burdened with the thorn in his side. It is what we do with that "thorn" that is telling. That is what I believe and what I hear echoed on this thread.

On a side note, I am enjoying this conversation so much more than discussing politics. I think it should be mandatory that we keep one thread like this up towards the top of the board at all times.

[Mile High Shack]

counterpart for the pretty traditional christian view that evil (or suffering) exists because by accepting love for the son of man (the lowest of all humans) evil or suffering would cease.

However, in point of fact, suffering would not cease, because mankind cannot cure falconers son, or autism or schizophrenia.

your right, mankind can never cure those diseases and suffering and we aren't expected to

I know in my mind, my brother's illness had helped made me who I am today......

I don't want to speak for Falconer, but I would venture to guess he might say the same thing (with his son)

[bendog]

one a side note: http://wires.news.com.au/special/mm/030811-hubble.htm

What I meant by 'traditional' christianity was a more RCC/episcopal/european view than American protestantism. I guess "older" could by used instead of "traditional," as I don't imply any weight of validity. Validity being an individual judgment.

From my view, there would never be a saying "I'm sure God has a reason, we just can't understand it." God liturally is love, as well as being an entity. (I'm not totally convinced that God/gods are seperate and distinct from the human spirit, but that is my lack of "faith," and traditional theory would disagree) God has no part in metting out suffering. But, God is always accessable to us when we are suffering. Our own psychological suffering of lusts for booze or sex or whatever are manifestations of our rejection of God/love.

[Mile High Shack]

one a side note: http://wires.news.com.au/special/mm/030811-hubble.htm

What I meant by 'traditional' christianity was a more RCC/episcopal/european view than American protestantism. I guess "older" could by used instead of "traditional," as I don't imply any weight of validity. Validity being an individual judgment.

From my view, there would never be a saying "I'm sure God has a reason, we just can't understand it." God liturally is love, as well as being an entity. (I'm not totally convinced that God/gods are seperate and distinct from the human spirit, but that is my lack of "faith," and traditional theory would disagree) God has no part in metting out suffering. But, God is always accessable to us when we are suffering. Our own psychological suffering of lusts for booze or sex or whatever are manifestations of our rejection of God/love.

not all suffering is due to our rejection of God, however

like Falcon's kid, he is an innocent baby, he didn't sin to cause his malady.

or my brother, he was born with it, he didn't sin to get it.

the type of suffering your talking about is corresponding to sin, I agree with you. I made a big mistake a few years ago and I paid for it.........I suffered and so did some around me due to my sin....now that I agree with you on.

[alkemical]

original sin....


my dads side is all nuts, 1 manic depressive, 2 schizo's, & who knows what the other is.

i have severe depression which ties into my paranoia. after columbine, i was removed from daytime classes pending an evaluation because of things i had done (caused a mutiny in one class, critisized the super on my radio show, etc) they (always a they) told me i was a nonconformist with anti-social (samething?) Behavior

[Mile High Shack]

original sin....


my dads side is all nuts, 1 manic depressive, 2 schizo's, & who knows what the other is.

i have severe depression which ties into my paranoia. after columbine, i was removed from daytime classes pending an evaluation because of things i had done (caused a mutiny in one class, critisized the super on my radio show, etc) they (always a they) told me i was a nonconformist with anti-social (samething?) Behavior

i don't believe in original sin.............do we have things that come from our genes...sure, but that doesn't mean your going to have the sins of your father, everyone has their own choice, their own free will.

my mom's side is all nuts, my mom's mom was in a mental ward in england, I think a cousin too?? Her dad was an alchi too

you make your own decisions though after awhile, your parents gave you baggage no doubt, but in the end, it's free will that determines your fate, not your parents

[baja]

I think it is a case of duality. The mind (the thinker of the thought) has found it self in a very convincing dream. The mind of Man and the Mind of God are in truth one Mind. The reality we currently share is created outside of God's mind which is Love as Dog points out. The universe as we know it is our collective creation or dream. God knows not of our world because it is not real, God knows only the unchanging timeless existence that is both Him and His creation. Jesus is One that remembers his true nature, the Son of God, and instructs us that we too are the Son of God. In our dream we have forgotten out true nature. We are living the dream over and over in thousands of incarnations and this cycle is broken only through Atonement which is nothing more than forgiveness. We need only be willing by inviting in the Holy Spirit and Jesus (the man that did realize His true Being thus gaining eyes to see through the illusion that we all are still stuck in.) to help.

"I am the way and the Light."

Unfortunately religions have taken partial truths and twisted them to serve their own purposes leaving many of us pissed off at Jesus and God.

Don't blame God for a reality that we collectively created He only knows perfection - death and suffering are not real therefore not of God.

[FADERPROOF]

"beliefs are dangerous, beliefs stop the mind from functioning, a non-functioning mind is clinically dead."

[Falconer]

one a side note: http://wires.news.com.au/special/mm/030811-hubble.htm

What I meant by 'traditional' christianity was a more RCC/episcopal/european view than American protestantism. I guess "older" could by used instead of "traditional," as I don't imply any weight of validity. Validity being an individual judgment.

From my view, there would never be a saying "I'm sure God has a reason, we just can't understand it." God liturally is love, as well as being an entity. (I'm not totally convinced that God/gods are seperate and distinct from the human spirit, but that is my lack of "faith," and traditional theory would disagree) God has no part in metting out suffering. But, God is always accessable to us when we are suffering. Our own psychological suffering of lusts for booze or sex or whatever are manifestations of our rejection of God/love.

I don't like that saying either, but if you add the word yet onto the end of sentence it makes it much more palatable. As far as having no part in meting out suffering, I can go pretty much along with you there as well. I believe that most of what happens is directly due to our own decisions. The things that are not our decisions do not need to be attributed to God either, as the simple fact that we live in a fallen world give those manifestations of suffering a foothold in our lives.

[Mile High Shack]

I think it is a case of duality. The mind (the thinker of the thought) has found it self in a very convincing dream. The mind of Man and the Mind of God are in truth one Mind. The reality we currently share is created outside of God's mind which is Love as Dog points out. The universe as we know it is our collective creation or dream. God knows not of our world because it is not real, God knows only the unchanging timeless existence that is both Him and His creation. Jesus is One that remembers his true nature, the Son of God and instructs us that we too are the Son of God. In our dream we have forgotten out true nature. We are living the dream over and over in thousands of incarnations and this cycle is broken only through Atonement which is nothing more than forgiveness. We need only be willing by inviting in the Holy Spirit and Jesus (the man that did realize His true Being thus gaining eyes to see through the illusion that we all are still stuck in.) to help.

"I am the way and the Light."

Unfortunately religions have taken partial truths and twisted them to serve their own purposes leaving many of us pissed off at Jesus and God.

Don't blame God for a reality that we collectively created He only knows perfection, death and suffering are not real therefore not of God.

I guess I'm slow or not deep enough....are you saying this world is a dream we live in?

[baja]

Of our creation, yes!

[Mile High Shack]

Of our creation, yes!

that's an interesting theory you propose, sounds like a combo of some different relgions.

in the sense that people can be deluded that they are living a good life, I agree with you, they are in a "dream world" so to speak, blinded by their own doing.

in the sense that this world is real though, I disagree, b/c God created this whole world and it is real and tangible.

[Mile High Shack]

"beliefs are dangerous, beliefs stop the mind from functioning, a non-functioning mind is clinically dead."

you don't believe in anything?

[alkemical]

in the qbl, baja's statement would fit. our reality we see, would be just in the world of formation, and the supernal is something you strive to do by "climbing" the tree.

[baja]

that's an interesting theory you propose, sounds like a combo of some different relgions.

in the sense that people can be deluded that they are living a good life, I agree with you, they are in a "dream world" so to speak, blinded by their own doing.

<i>in the sense that this world is real though, I disagree,<b> b/c God created this whole world </b>and it is real and tangible.</i>

What makes you so sure?

[alkemical]

btw-

the qbl is about the tree of life.

the roots are in heaven & grows "down" to the world of action - the world of formation is "above" that.

[FADERPROOF]

you don't believe in anything?

When it comes to religion, yes. I guess I don't like to be hard-pressed on one thing, my current stance on beliefs is that once you believe in something, your open-mind goes out the window, and to me it's not worth giving up in order to take a big stance on religion.

I'm not atheist, I have my own personal thoughts and faith, which is something everyone needs IMO, but wouldn't say I truly believe in one thing.

[Hogan11]

When it comes to religion, yes. I guess I don't like to be hard-pressed on one thing, my current stance on beliefs is that once you believe in something, your open-mind goes out the window, and to me it's not worth giving up in order to take a big stance on religion.

I'm not atheist, I have my own personal thoughts and faith, which is something everyone needs IMO, but wouldn't say I truly believe in one thing.

Damn...for a second there, I thought I found another nihilist on this board ;D

[Falconer]

When it comes to religion, yes. I guess I don't like to be hard-pressed on one thing, my current stance on beliefs is that once you believe in something, your open-mind goes out the window, and to me it's not worth giving up in order to take a big stance on religion.

I'm not atheist, I have my own personal thoughts and faith, which is something everyone needs IMO, but wouldn't say I truly believe in one thing.

It is your right of course not to believe in anything, but to say that if a person believes in something his/her mind stops functioning is ignorant. You say that to believe is to forego an open-mind (which is an oft used statement by those who do not believe), but it could be said that you are not open-minded enough to believe. Everyone would like to think that they are the ones thinking outside of the box. The thing is we all build our own boxes, just in different ways.

I love to discuss religion, and if someone else asks me why I believe the way I do I am more than ready to go there, but I always try to be respectful of another’s opinion. I mean I was interested enough in the book that baja fan recommended that I went and looked at it and then went to websites that offered more information. After looking at all the information I decided it wasn't my cup of tea, but I would never come back here and tell him he must not have a functioning brain to believe that.

I believe that the greatest feat for one to achieve is to be able to have a system of beliefs, and at the same time be able to constantly review and scrutinize them. To enter into discussion and see other individuals’ points of view, and never having to resort to name calling also is a good exercise. I find that I enjoy discussing issues with those who have different points of view. I really enjoy orangeatheist, bendog, Spide, and amesj even though they may not share the same view as me.

I am sorry if this is too long of a rant, but I just get tired of hearing the same old closed minded stuff over and over. Now back to your regular programming

[Mile High Shack]

</i>

What makes you so sure?

what makes me so sure that God created the world? Well for one, my faith and for 2 (that isn't good english I know..lol) the perfect order this world follows. Order can not be created from chaos, something has to be there to create that order.

There are too many examples of things that are perfectly created (for example our eco-system) to believe that they just "happened"

[bendog]

The hindu creation myth makes the most sense to me. It always was and always will be, one cosmos being created after another. The christian myth doesn't make sense to me, because ultimately one is left with God being the creator, albiet indirectly, of evil/Satan/sin and innocent suffering.

[baja]

what makes me so sure that God created the world? Well for one, my faith and for 2 (that isn't good english I know..lol) the perfect order this world follows. Order can not be created from chaos, something has to be there to create that order.

There are too many examples of things that are perfectly created (for example our eco-system) to believe that they just "happened"

Perfect order?

I see a world based of suffering and death. For one species to live another must die.

[Mile High Shack]

The hindu creation myth makes the most sense to me. It always was and always will be, one cosmos being created after another. The christian myth doesn't make sense to me, because ultimately one is left with God being the creator, albiet indirectly, of evil/Satan/sin and innocent suffering.

huh?

christian myth...interesting.

God didn't create evil.......Satan chose evil. It's part of God's love and free will. You can not have choices w/o free will and Satan chose evil.

You wouldn't know how good God is w/o evil.

free will can create good things, but also can create innocent suffering.

I personally think Satan does all he can to create havoc in this world to create doubt like you have in regards to suffering....and it works too unfortunately.

[Mile High Shack]

Perfect order?

I see a world based of suffering and death. For one species to live another must die.

???

this world isn't based on suffering and death

I was talking about the cycle of life, for example in the African plains, with the hippo, the gazelle, the crocs, the lions, dung beatles...all of that.

sure a gazelle might have to die, but I don't get your point...are you comparing animal's to humans?

as far as the rest of the suffering that is free will my friend....unfortunately people make the wrong decisions, but God didn't create robots, part of the love goes in to the fact we have free will.

[patteeu]

Satan created internet message boards and reality shows.

[bendog]

Yes, but God created Satan and the cosmos to allow free will, so it seems to me God has to get credit for at least tacitally creating evil by allowing for its existence, and if God is allknowing how could he not foresee Satan's choice. That's why I find something lacking in Christian philosophy. Even accepting that suffering must exist, there remains the question 'why' the cosmos is that way. Christianity has no answer for that except God's will. That I can see, anyway.

[alkemical]

i'm with bendog on this...

if god, knows of the "end times" and thus knowing the future - you wouldn't really have free will..

[Mile High Shack]

i'm with bendog on this...

if god, knows of the "end times" and thus knowing the future - you wouldn't really have free will..

sure you do.....I have more on this, but it'll have to wait till later as far as the Satan and created thing, I have something on that, but I don't quite remember it.....I'll have to look for it at home

as far as free will goes
God made us beings who have limited knowledge and power BUT we can choose to grow in knowledge and power…..I mean he could’ve made super intelligent beings, who know absolutely everything, but the pursuit of knowledge has it’s own kind of goodness, doesn’t it?

Since we need to learn, we have to have an environment to learn, no? We have to have an environment that has natural laws, ya know, observable, predictable regularities (ie sun setting and rising, gravity, etc etc)…..can you learn about the world if the summer is followed by 3 summers, then a fall, then a spring, then a winter, then 3 more winters? No pattern?…..

So with that being known (from above)…we can logically see why God (or supreme being if that term scares you) might want to make beings who can freely choose whether to love God or reject him, no? God could make us love him, but would that be love? Doubtful

The supreme being (or God) couldn’t give us free will w/o the possibility of choosing to do bad things…..are you free if God won’t let you chose evil? (which relates to Satan and him having free will as well)

Ok with that too, the next logical step is we can see why God want to make beings whose decisions can have very good or very bad effects on themselves and others……..
Decisions you make matter…I mean if you had a fairy godmother who protected you every time you wrote a hot check and only scolded you, but still covered the hot check….wouldn’t you be the hot check king???….same goes with laziness, drunkenness, adultery, etc etc……need to see consequences

So by this….if people make evil choices, some very bad things may happen and also those choices could effect innocent people.

I mean that again, is just a summary of some of my thoughts…….sorry if I got long winded.

[alkemical]

you only answered part....


if god knows your destination - isn't that pre-destination?

[Mile High Shack]

you only answered part....


if god knows your destination - isn't that pre-destination?

how can it be, he doesn't force you to chose any direction, it's up to you to make the choice. there would be no free will if he already determined your direction in life.

that doesn't mean he doesn't know the future......time is of no relavance to God. He doesn't control our actions

if you had a time machine and could look back and overlook history, would that mean those people didn't have free will even though you knew how it would turn out?

[alkemical]

do you believe that there will be an apocolpse?

if yes, then its predestined, and since we'd be in the "past" we have no recourse in changing it, thUs you answered your own question.

[Mile High Shack]

do you believe that there will be an apocolpse?

if yes, then its predestined, and since we'd be in the "past" we have no recourse in changing it, thUs you answered your own question.

no there is no such thing as an apocolypse...not at all the only "final battle" is a battle we have been waging since the 1st century...a spirtual battle, which is a more dangerous battle, b/c a physical battle can only harm you physically, but a spirtual battle can ... well you know the rest

but no, no such thing as apocolypse or end times as one resident poster use to always post.

[alkemical]

see, i agree with you, to an extent. but how do you know that we aren't ants, carrying out a design?

my views on order and chaos differ though

[FADERPROOF]

Damn...for a second there, I thought I found another nihilist on this board ;D

I prefer idealist :)

[FADERPROOF]

It is your right of course not to believe in anything, but to say that if a person believes in something his/her mind stops functioning is ignorant. You say that to believe is to forego an open-mind (which is an oft used statement by those who do not believe), but it could be said that you are not open-minded enough to believe. Everyone would like to think that they are the ones thinking outside of the box. The thing is we all build our own boxes, just in different ways.

I love to discuss religion, and if someone else asks me why I believe the way I do I am more than ready to go there, but I always try to be respectful of another’s opinion. I mean I was interested enough in the book that baja fan recommended that I went and looked at it and then went to websites that offered more information. After looking at all the information I decided it wasn't my cup of tea, but I would never come back here and tell him he must not have a functioning brain to believe that.

I believe that the greatest feat for one to achieve is to be able to have a system of beliefs, and at the same time be able to constantly review and scrutinize them. To enter into discussion and see other individuals’ points of view, and never having to resort to name calling also is a good exercise. I find that I enjoy discussing issues with those who have different points of view. I really enjoy orangeatheist, bendog, Spide, and amesj even though they may not share the same view as me.

I am sorry if this is too long of a rant, but I just get tired of hearing the same old closed minded stuff over and over. Now back to your regular programming


I dont find it ignorant at all, rather truthful in fact.

If someone truly believes in something, totally convinced that is the the way, then your mind has basically stopped functioning, and you are no longer an open minded person. You don't leave yourself open for other possibilities, you just claim that this is the truth and this is what happened. You just don;t stop believing all of a sudden, if you really believe in it, you erased your doubt and question towards this structure and just follow in convincing fashion, that is why I say you lose your open mind.

I don't see how one that doesn't have beliefs can not open-minded enough to believe, it could be though that they are too open-minded and therefore won't commit to a certain structure.

I like discussing religion as well, but I hate running across someone who is so convicnced that their beliefs are right that it ends up in a big argument with people getting all pissed off. Happens all the time, 2 of my best friends just constantly go at it, one is a Catholic and the other believes in heaven and God but thinks that there is no hell and that the bible is bull****, so they just go for each others juggulars whenever they argue religion.

[alkemical]

how can it be, he doesn't force you to chose any direction, it's up to you to make the choice. there would be no free will if he already determined your direction in life.

that doesn't mean he doesn't know the future......time is of no relavance to God. He doesn't control our actions

if you had a time machine and could look back and overlook history, would that mean those people didn't have free will even though you knew how it would turn out?


IF you could go back intime, and not interfere with actions already occuring (as in you could not change the future) - then they would in a way have no free will.

[alkemical]

http://www.sianews.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1976

Are Psychedelic Mushrooms the Biblical "Manna"?



International Politics by James Dure
October 15, 2004

Exodus 16:14-24 indicates that MANNA was definitely a MUSHROOM. It was a small round thing in the morning dew, it bred larva, and would melt to mush if not dried.

Fly's eggs cause larvae/worms in mushrooms. Daniel 5:3-5 with Exodus 16:32 and Hebrews 9:4 indicates that the mushroom was a DRUG. Those who drank from the cup containing MANNA had visions within the hour. Psilocybin takes 30-40 minutes to induce visions.

Hebrews 9:4 makes it clear that MANNA was the most holy thing to Israelites, kept in A POT OF GOLD in the ARK OF THE COVENANT, in the MOST HOLY OF HOLYS. Psalm 78:24-25 calls MANNA FOOD OF ANGELS, just as MAYAN/INCA PRIESTS from Meso-America called it TEONANACATL FOOD OF THE GODS. Coca and Tobacco Leaves found in Pharaohs tombs suggest it was ancestors of Mayan/Inca Priests who brought MUSHROOMS to Egypt.

MANNA is an Egyptian word, not Hebrew or Aramaic, meaning: The BREAD OF GOD. This is what Moses called it in Exodus 16:15. BREAD OF GOD equals: FOOD OF GOD, equals: TEONANACATL.

John 2:6-9 indicates that Jesus made water into wine by boiling mushrooms (Mushroom-Tea), the waterpots were made of stone, not clay, (stone pots were used for cooking, clay pots used for storing water)...

These pots already contained 2-3 firkins of a substance before the pots were filled with water. A "Firkin" is an Old-English measurement meaning a fourth part. Half to three-quarters of fresh mushrooms with water makes a potent tea. Tea is the safest way to consume field mushrooms, killing dangerous bacteria like E. Coli.

In the Atharva Veda, the Hindus called this Tea SOMA. Greeks called mushroom jelly AMBROSIA.

Moses, Christ, and Joseph, The favorite son of Israel, were all educated in Egypt. Solomon married Pharaoh¹s daughter, and Abraham found his God at a place called SHECHEM which is another Egyptian word for MANNA.

There is now good archeological evidence that Maya/Inca ancestors crossed the Atlantic, bringing with them advanced knowledge of STAR PRECESSION, PYRAMID ARCHITECTURE, and The MUSHROOM RITUAL to Egypt. There the Patriarchs of Israel all learned of it and became leaders amongst their people.

Plato describes how his great-grandfather Solon, met a banished priest from Egypt who revealed secret knowledge of how an advanced race from across the Atlantic brought knowledge that made Egypt so great and mighty (see ATLANTIS IN THE ANDES by Jim Allen).

MANNA was round, was found on the ground in the dew, would melt to mush if not dried or collected on time, and would breed larvae. All unique characteristics of mushrooms. When dried it was like WAFERS OF BREAD and its color was like CORIANDER SEED, the consistency and color of dried mushrooms. Exodus Ch. 16. © Sacred-Wine Press ©

[baja]

Maybe everything that is going to happen in our world has already happened in God's Awareness.

[baja]

Because how can there be such a thing as time in eternity.

[alkemical]

i personally think our view of reality is one ray of light that has been refracted and we are aware of sort of like a prisim and it's relation to light and our consicnious

[baja]

That's as good as any

[baja]

I think it was a decision to "fall" into this non- real creation of man for man and being non-real not in God's awareness because of that very fact is is not real. Seems real though huh

[FADERPROOF]

What if Aliens created us? Religion just might be a diversion of their own creation so that we do not know the real truth about them, and humans could just be a hybrid of what aliens are.

[alkemical]

I firmly like to go with the idea that i have an idea of how things work, but i'm not ever sure because i'm human.

[broncohaven]

if i could rid the world of one thing it would be religion.

[Nick C.]

Three policeman lose their lives and you are happy about it.

What an asshole.
I am glad some Drug Cops are dead Funk them for interfearing with my FREEDOME!

"F- The police that's how I treat em buy my way out of jail but I can't buy freedome" Kanye West