John Kerry: Solid as a rock on Iraq

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

The San Francisco Chronicle looked at John "Kerry's words in more than 200 speeches and statements, comments during candidate forums and answers to reporters' questions" and found that he has held one consistent position on Iraq since the run up to the war.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2004/09/23/MNGQK8TI8O1.DTL

As foreign policy emerged as a dominant issue in the Democratic primaries and later in the general election, Kerry clung to a nuanced, middle-of-the road — yet largely consistent — approach to Iraq. Over and over, Kerry enthusiastically supported a confrontation with Saddam Hussein even as he aggressively criticized Bush for the manner in which he did so.

Kerry repeatedly described Hussein as a dangerous menace who must be disarmed or eliminated, demanded that the U.S. build broad international support for any action in Iraq and insisted that the nation had better plan for the post-war peace.

Yet taken as a whole, Kerry has offered the same message ever since talk of attacking Iraq became a national conversation more than two years ago.

"Let there be no doubt or confusion about where we stand on this. I will support a multilateral effort to disarm (Hussein) by force, if we ever exhaust … other options,'' Kerry said 23 months ago on the Senate floor before voting to authorize the force, imploring Bush to take the matter to the United Nations.

It's not really that difficult: John Kerry believes that the president should have had the authority he voted for back in 2002, and he knows that George Bush made the worst possible choices after he was given that authority.

Of course the Bush campaign is going to distort Kerry's position. That's not a shock. But why does most of the media find it so hard to report the simple truth?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Bush's many Iraq positions

We know that John Kerry has had exactly one position on Iraq. So how many times has President Bush changed his mind?

Kevin Drum has a must-read rundown of all the different plans the Bush administration has gone through in Iraq and wonders what's coming next:

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2004_09/004763.php

[watermock]

Your quoting http://www.sfgate.com again.

How amusing.

Kerry repeatedly described Hussein as a dangerous menace who must be disarmed or eliminated, demanded that the U.S. build broad international support for any action in Iraq and insisted that the nation had better plan for the post-war peace.

Yet taken as a whole, Kerry has offered the same message ever since talk of attacking Iraq became a national conversation more than two years ago.

"Let there be no doubt or confusion about where we stand on this. I will support a multilateral effort to disarm (Hussein) by force, if we ever exhaust … other options,'' Kerry said 23 months ago on the Senate floor before voting to authorize the force, imploring Bush to take the matter to the United Nations.

[Rohirrim]

Yeah, the Bush campaign is a hoodwink of the American people of PT Barnum dimensions. Unfortunately, the American media is completely flaccid and the Rovian attack machine has been very successful in distracting the people from any meaningful discussion of the facts. That, in itself, is an amazing facet of this election: The decision to re-elect Bush will be made based on misconceptions and lies. Too bad for America. I have a feeling that a really hard lesson is coming down the road.

[patteeu]

And yet, none of his supporters on this board could articulate his Iraq position as recently as 11 days ago when I posted <a href="http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=17470&page=2&pp=40">this thread</a>.

Solid as a rock! :thumbsup:

[Exile_In_SJ]

And yet, none of his supporters on this board could articulate his Iraq position as recently as 11 days ago when I posted <a href="http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=17470&page=2&pp=40">this thread</a>.

Solid as a rock! :thumbsup:


exactly....this guys been on every side of every issue he's seen and yet his supporters here still can't see it.

[Sideburn]

There are no Kerry supporters...Only Bush haters. Kerry is a candidate by default. Bad choices all around fellas!

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

And yet, none of his supporters on this board could articulate his Iraq position as recently as 11 days ago when I posted <a href="http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=17470&page=2&pp=40">this thread</a>.

Another disingenuous statement.

You didn't ask for an articulation of Kerry's position on Iraq.

You asked for speculation as to whether or not Kerry would pull US forces out of Iraq at some unspecified time after he was elected.

[Crushaholic]

Kerry repeatedly described Hussein as a dangerous menace who must be disarmed or eliminated, demanded that the U.S. build broad international support for any action in Iraq and insisted that the nation had better plan for the post-war peace.

We've handed control of Iraq over to the Iraqis and free and democratic elections are planned for January. I'd say that is a pretty good plan for the post-war peace. We'll get out of there as soon as the country's stable enough to do so.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

We've handed control of Iraq over to the Iraqis and free and democratic elections are planned for January. I'd say that is a pretty good plan for the post-war peace. We'll get out of there as soon as the country's stable enough to do so.

You forgot "war is peace," "ignorance is strength," and "freedom is slavery."

The bogus "handover" turned out to be nothing but another empty, meaningless Halliburton/Bush handjob designed to keep Iraq off the front page for a while.

Thanks to the GOP, we can't even get "free and democratic elections" right in America. How is bush's taxpayer-funded nation building project in Iraq supposed to be any better?

So the Iraqis are going to be "free" to vote for the Halliburton/Bush puppet of their choice?

We'll get out of there as soon as the country's stable enough to do so.

After an American-trained Iraqi force, already tainted by its association with the invader/occupyer, somehow manages to defeat an insurgency our own military could not defeat?

Can you say "Vietnamization?"

Why can't neocons learn from history?

[Exile_In_SJ]

did you see kerrys orange face today? wow. I wonder if the fake tan will run under the lights at the debate?

[Arkie]

If John Kerry is solid as a rock on his issues with Iraq, then Michael Moore had zero lies and misrepresentations in F 9/11, and I have a bridge to sell you.

John Kerry: Dumb as a rock on Iraq

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

did you see kerrys orange face today? wow. I wonder if the fake tan will run under the lights at the debate?

Wonder how long before the AWOL monkey melts down from having to speak w/o reading from cue cards?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

If John Kerry is solid as a rock on his issues with Iraq, then Michael Moore had zero lies and misrepresentations in F 9/11, and I have a bridge to sell you.

John Kerry: Dumb as a rock on Iraq

I'll bet you also see three fingers when Rove is only holding up two.

Before you try to sell that bridge, maybe you should try selling your claims about Kerry and Moore with some actual facts.

[Rock Chalk]

Yeah, the Bush campaign is a hoodwink of the American people of PT Barnum dimensions. Unfortunately, the American media is completely flaccid and the Rovian attack machine has been very successful in distracting the people from any meaningful discussion of the facts. That, in itself, is an amazing facet of this election: The decision to re-elect Bush will be made based on misconceptions and lies. Too bad for America. I have a feeling that a really hard lesson is coming down the road.

Meaningful discussion Rohirrim? Ha!

Wtf ever man.

You liberal nutjobs couldnt have a meaningful discussion if it was to save your families lives. You f*cking morons are so hell bent on hatred towards Bush you just throw out ANYTHING that seems like it is slanted against him and absolutely DISREGARD anything and EVERYTHING that has a positive spin.

Look, Bush isnt perfect, no one is (except Jesus but he isnt living on Earth at the moment). But to hear you f*cknuts tell it, Bush is the most incompetent person on the face of the Earth.

STFU with that sh*t already. Fine, be against Bush, more power to you, but dont just slam the man to slam the man. I have not seen ONE ARTICLE BY ANY OF YOU LIBERAL NUTJOBS that supports Bush in ANYTHING.

You cant tell me that you less than bright assholes disagree with Bush on EVERYTHING.

I hated Clinton but I didnt disagree with everything he did.

This is the problem with the left. They are so determined to get Bush out of office they fail to realize that the man they want to replace him with is FAR WORSE of an option. While Kerry may have some good ideas about how this country should be run, his spineless cowardess will be the end of us.

Im not talking about his courage in battle which I can and will argue. Im talking about his courage of HIS OWN GOD DAMN CONVICTIONS. The worst thing about Kerry, he doesnt have an opinion of his own. He says whatever the local group of people he is talking to wants to hear.

Bush will tell you like it is. Whether you like it or not. Whether you agree with it or not. He will tell it like it is. While I do not agree with everything Bush has done, I do agree with a lot of it and coupled with the fact that the man isnt a f*cking coward and has the courage to stand by his decisions, that is worth my vote.

Here's another thing for you. LABF is going to read this, pick one sentence from it, take it out of context, spam this thread with nonsensical BS that has nothing to do with what I am talking about and claim a verbal victory. Whatever. Beerslug the Organized Crime (aka UNION) supporter will do the same thing and you Rohirrim, you at least MAY realize Im not attacking anyone, but will probably get all butthurt about it anyway cause I called you a liberal nutjob (if the shoe fits, wear it with pride).

Meaningful discussion.

What the f*ck ever.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

You f*cking morons are so hell bent on hatred towards Bush...

Translation:

"How DARE you suggest that the Alkie in Chief should be held accountable for his failures, crimes, and lies to the American people? What do you think this is--a representative democracy or something?"

[watermock]

It's amusing you vilify Rove when it's your own hackster Lockhart that got caught with his hand in the cookie jar.

It's literally incredible that dumbocrats want to tell us everything was peachy and keen in the Saddam regime. Every week, (If a suicide bomb doesn't disrupt things), 600 more policemen are graduated. Yes, there will be shadow insurgents in the force.

You people hate Bush more than the picture of pure evil men in black covered faces chanting Satan and sawing off civilians heads.

Finally, in the past few days, even the ostrich Muslim community has had enough and begun to call for retribution against the criminal terrorists.

The radical left could care less about freedom and democracy in Iraq. It's so hypocrytical it's hysterical. You hyenas don't see past your next kill. Well, hyenas are too cowardly to kill anything, they are just generally thugs stealing legitimate kill from the likes of Beezlebub.

http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:bAqrjreHQI4J:www.tigertouch.org/images/pegsue3.jpg

"Get away you hyenas! This is Beezer's kill"

[patteeu]

Another disingenuous statement.

You didn't ask for an articulation of Kerry's position on Iraq.

You asked for speculation as to whether or not Kerry would pull US forces out of Iraq at some unspecified time after he was elected.

You're no Bill Clinton, LABF. That kind of parsing isn't going to get you out of this one. There isn't a whisker's difference between the exact wording of my questions in that thread and the statement I made in this thread.

I asked the question several times, in several different ways, in an effort to get you Kerry supporters to fill me in on Kerry's position. Here is what I asked the first time:


What do you think about Kerry's contradictions? Is he going to end this war if he is elected or is he going to do what needs to be done to win it?

Here is your answer:

Anyone with two brain cells to rub together can see that the war is unwinnable and is another Viet Nam. (But don't take my word for it--listen to the military experts.)

No matter what he decides to do, there is no way Kerry could botch things as badly as the disaster monkey. You would have to first handicap him by about 50 IQ points.

But if you want to understand Kerry's plan then why not just go to johnkerry.com and get it straight from the horse's mouth?

Obviously, you don't think Kerry has two brain cells to rub together since he apparently (now) thinks this war is winnable, if only we had his leadership.

Secondly, it is obvious that you didn't know what Kerry's rock-solid, consistent position on Iraq was because you think he is still deciding what to do.

[watermock]

I bet you didn' know I had a vegatarian African Wildcat.

He's not very happy about.

Luckily there are no mice in this house. Mice are rampant at the cottage and one of the farms. Luckily, some of the herd of cats have been transplanted to the other farm.

Good hunting is all i can say. These are not fancy cats. Go get them mice!

They will fight rats to boot. Tomcats will. Wolverines are another story. They are cool tho, they kill rats as well. In fact they are better at it. A Wolverine is a bad ass Rodent. Tell a Rat to get out of town.

If I see one of those Mock takes out the model 12 but not till it chases off the rats.

Wolverines are giant mean rats. I'm not kidding. I have only seen one and was told to get the gun. Rats are sneakier tho.

BEHAVIOR:

Wolverines are solitary animals except during the breeding season. They are notorious for raiding traps and food caches of hunters. They are territorial and do not tolerate individuals of the same sex in their territories. They mark their territory with secretions from anal scent glands and urine. To discourage other animals from raiding their food caches, wolverines mark their caches with scent gland secretions.

Wolverines are mean. I only seen one and went for the Model 12 but he scampered off.

http://www.pjc.cc.fl.us/sctag/wolverine/Wolverine_files/Rustice2.jpg

I think they are a rodent. But damn they are meaner than a mongoose.

[watermock]

Plus they are from Michigan, which means they are legal prey in Iowa.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

You're no Bill Clinton, LABF. That kind of parsing isn't going to get you out of this one.

There's nothing to "get out of."

You said no one was able to articulate Kerry's Iraq position when what you really asked was whether or not Kerry would pull US troops out of Iraq once elected.

Two different questions altogether.

http://www.bartcop.com/newtexas.jpg

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Secondly, it is obvious that you didn't know what Kerry's rock-solid, consistent position on Iraq was because you think he is still deciding what to do.

Sorry, but this argument doesn't quite work.

Kerry's position on Iraq hitherto and speculation as to what he will do in Iraq in the future are two different subjects.

Thought maybe you'd be sharp enough to recognize this. My bad.

[patteeu]

If Kerry has a position on Iraq, and if you know that position, then when I ask what Kerry is likely to do in Iraq if he is elected, you should be able to articulate enough of Kerry's plan to answer the question.

Since no one did, I can only assume that either Kerry didn't have a plan or that none of his followers could figure it out. Either way, it's kind of hard to claim his plan is rock-solid and has been consistent all along.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Either way, it's kind of hard to claim his plan is rock-solid and has been consistent all along.

But the article didn't discuss Kerry's plan--it addressed Kerry's position of record on Iraq.

The intent of the article was to refute the right-wing lie that Kerry has flip-flopped on Iraq.

Mission accomplished.

[watermock]

Is that his position from 1997, 1999, 2001 or 2004?

Even ChuchLady has trouble giving you crediblity.

http://www.bartcop.com/newtexas.jpg

Look you dimwit. When you bend reality and try to make coherent statements thru the mantra of bartcop cartoons, did it ever occur to you that you just might be losing a tad of credibility?

You honestly don't get it. LABS, you would have even a little bit of cred if you managed to bring legitimate sources to the table.

We know we are at war. We want solutions. We need the best and brightest to help Iraq.

We don't need a bunch of prancing hostile dimwits that are apparently communist running around posting monkey pictures.

We need men like DMan. Like Mighty Smurf. Like Clarkster. Like many of I don't know their name. Our men. Our men. Our MEN.

[baja]

Yeah, the Bush campaign is a hoodwink of the American people of PT Barnum dimensions. Unfortunately, the American media is completely flaccid and the Rovian attack machine has been very successful in distracting the people from any meaningful discussion of the facts. That, in itself, is an amazing facet of this election: The decision to re-elect Bush will be made based on misconceptions and lies. Too bad for America. <b> I have a feeling that a really hard lesson is coming down the road.</b>

My sources say, " It is decidedly so."

[patteeu]

But the article didn't discuss Kerry's plan--it addressed Kerry's position of record on Iraq.

The intent of the article was to refute the right-wing lie that Kerry has flip-flopped on Iraq.

Mission accomplished.

Your distinction between "plan" and "position" makes no sense. Sure they are different words, but their meanings in this context are virtually identical. You had your chance to tell us what his plan/position on Iraq was and you couldn't. Kerry's whole campaign is a mess. George Bush and Karl Rove are running circles around him.

What time is it? It's 8:41 am Eastern. That means it's time for Kerry to change his position/plan again.

[baja]

To me it is amazing in a country of 300 million people the best candidate the Dems could come up with is John Kerry

[watermock]

Your not even in America Baja.

Who gave you a voice dimwit.

You want to tell me what your voice is?

Your going to vote abstentia? Humm.

Tell us why you should be able to vote Baja.

It's our table. Are you native American?

C'mon.

[watermock]

Where were you born Baja? Are you an American citizen?

[watermock]

C'mon Baja. Tell us how you even have a voice. This dimwit is talking from Mexico and acting like an asshole. Sit down and shut up, your not even alowed to vote you dimwit.

Why don't you sit down and shut ut and worry about Fox.

[baja]

I was born in Bangor Maine and have three years of service in the US Army during Viet Nam. How about you ass hole?

[watermock]

Some dimwit in Baha is telling me how to vote.

Your can't even vote unless your run a special card.

'Go do it.

Listen to this arrogant bastard that doesnt even live here.

What were you saying again Mexican Boy? Telling us how to run our elections?

WTF do you have to do with it Baja Boy?

Huh?

Your the coward that has run away, and you want to vote in the United States Election?

Go vote on the next margarita.

[baja]

Go play with your cat and leave the thinking to the grown ups.

Still drunk at 7 am. Do yourself a favor find you way to a good AA meeting, walk in sit down and shut up you just might find some respect for yourself.

[baja]

You are amusing in a pathetic sort of a way.

I am an American who has the means to live anywhere I chose and Baja has less narrow minded buffoons such as yourself that most places.

There is help for you find a twelve step group sit down and listen

I know you are scared to death but it will be alright

[watermock]

I was born in Bangor Maine and have three years of service in the US Army during Viet Nam. How about you ass hole?

You have been beaten down enough.

You want to establish yourself again thats fine. That's fine and have fun with it. I allready went thru this. I don't give a damn if you gave 27 terms of duty.

There is a minor issue of argument that you seem to be incoherent about.

I don't care if you did multplue backflps.

I am going to drop it.

[baja]

And I would never tell anyone how to vote.

Because I don't care anymore.

[baja]

Your not even in America Baja.

Who gave you a voice dimwit.

You want to tell me what your voice is?

Your going to vote abstentia? Humm.

Tell us why you should be able to vote Baja.

It's our table. Are you native American?

C'mon.

BTW Einstein America is a continent ( actually 2) not a country. but that is an example of the arrogance of some citizens of the United States actually Indians of Guatemala are more American than you Mock, if lineage counts.

[patteeu]

I was born in Bangor Maine and have three years of service in the US Army during Viet Nam. How about you ass hole?

Just curious, were you in Vietnam?

[baja]

Why do you want to know

[patteeu]

Why do you want to know

Just because of the way you said it. It sounds like maybe you weren't actually in Vietnam but you wanted to make it sound like you could have been. I don't have a problem with you either way, you go where they tell you to go. I just thought the way you phrased it begged for clarification.

[baja]

I chose to not talk about my time in the Army on this disingenuous forum.


If you wonder why just go read the drunk's last few posts

[Mile High Shack]

I chose to not talk about my time in the Army on this disingenuous forum.


If you wonder why just go read the drunk's last few posts

why would anyone make fun of your service time?

I respect all that served....even freak15.....don't agree with their opinions, but I'm happy for the sacrifice to our country

[watermock]

BTW Einstein America is a continent ( actually 2) not a country. but that is an example of the arrogance of some citizens of the United States actually Indians of Guatemala are more American than you Mock, if lineage counts.

Last time I checked, The Canadians called themselves Canadians, not Canada of North America.

Last time I checked, Mexico called itself Mexico, not Mexico of America.

Last time I checked the United States of America was called the United States of America.

And it's not America the Continent. It's North America the Continent and South America the Continent.

Let's go on. It's not Brazil of South America is it.

Go have a Spleef and Sit it your tin shed.

[baja]

Don't do drugs. Did you wake up from your passed out stupor. I once got drunk 4 times in a 24 hour peroid what's your record?

[bendog]

baja, mock is ... nonsensical at best.

I take it you're staying in baja for the present? At this pt, I'm sort of glad Mrs Dog wouldn't let me have the money to get a loan and buy a condo in Gulf Shores, Ala.

[baja]

You always make me laugh Dog - thanks !

[baja]

Ya I'll be in Baja until I can sell my house.

Good call on the condo

BTW Hot Springs Ar. is pretty damn nice.

[bendog]

I finally got a prescrip for vioxx. Doc was calling it in today. I log in and see vioxx is being pulled.

A Mother in law story. My late FIL got a prescrip for 12.5mg vioxx per day due to arthritis. Crazy MIL found the prescrip and called the doc raising hell as to why he'd prescribe viagra for her 78 yr old hubby.

[baja]

Lmao

[watermock]

That's the best you can do? Do a circlejerk?

It's always amusing to hear that I am nonsensical without an argument behind it.

[baja]

All one has to do is read some of your posts.

If you don't believe me go back a read the ones you have never read.

[watermock]

If you can't determine between bad comedy and stone cold reality it's not my fault.

My stone cold reality isn't pretty. You can make fun of me, and my jokes, and even my demeanor. That doesn't bother me. That is what it is for.

If you want to go to brass balls, I am all claws. Simple insults are just fine with me. I'll run you so far under the table you won't know where to find a napkin.

[baja]

Now I am worried.

[watermock]

Your not worried, you not capable of worry. Your just sitting around a Corona making blanket judgements about American Politics, when your not even in this country. What the hell do you care. Your not even in this country.

So you get to sit down and shut up. WTF gives you the right unless you pull your French Pedigree out? Go deal with Fox.

[baja]

I crushed you don't read my posts I was in Connecticut, Vermont and Arkansas all summer.

Although I do envy you being in Iowa - great topsoil!

[baja]

BTW "This country" as you put it has the whole world concerned what with the idiot in the White house who has the key to the big red button and all.

[watermock]

Iowa is the most literate place on earth. We also have a mix of German, Danish Norwegian and Swedish women. Even some Pollock women that could pull your foreskin off.

Never mind. This damn war has everyone on edge.

[DONKEYSHOW]

BTW "This country" as you put it has the whole world concerned what with the idiot in the White house who has the key to the big red button and all.


People said the exact same thing about Reagan, and look what happened to the "bloody" cold war..

Gloom and doom.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

People said the exact same thing about Reagan, and look what happened to the "bloody" cold war..

But Reagan seems like a mental giant when you compare him to dubya.

Reagan didn't lead us into a quagmire like present-day Iraq, and neither did Bush 41.

In fact, Bush 41 advised against an invasion/occupation of Iraq.

[DONKEYSHOW]

But Reagan seems like a mental giant when you compare him to dubya.

Reagan didn't lead us into a quagmire like present-day Iraq, and neither did Bush 41.

In fact, Bush 41 advised against an invasion/occupation of Iraq.


Reagan got crucified for the Faulklands, but in retro it is well regarded as the right thing to do.. I agree, that Iraq is turning out bad, but I still say it was the right thing to do.

As if, invading a bunch of 14,000 ft peaks and desert wastelands in Afg. for Bin laden would have been better.? I don't think even a Kerry lead regime could have flushed out that rat. So whats your point?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

As if, invading a bunch of 14,000 ft peaks and desert wastelands in Afg. for Bin laden would have been better.? I don't think even a Kerry lead regime could have flushed out that rat.

Then why even send troops to Afghanistan to begin with?

I think we could have captured or killed bin Laden.

All bush cared about was invading Iraq.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

BTW "This country" as you put it has the whole world concerned what with the idiot in the White house who has the key to the big red button and all.

Baja with the reality check.

:)

[DONKEYSHOW]

As if, invading a bunch of 14,000 ft peaks and desert wastelands in Afg. for Bin laden would have been better.? I don't think even a Kerry lead regime could have flushed out that rat.

Then why even send troops to Afghanistan to begin with?

I think we could have captured or killed bin Laden.

All bush cared about was invading Iraq.


OK Mr. Polly Sci.. Give us your pin point plan for exacting the capture and/or killing of bin laden? You and the rest of the Hollywood geniuses all say we SHOULD have gone to Afg. What is your plan? Thats right. You don't have one.

Iraq has and always has been a terrorist country, with a murderous dictator! And you plead for his safety?? Shame...

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

OK Mr. Polly Sci.. Give us your pin point plan for exacting the capture and/or killing of bin laden? You and the rest of the Hollywood geniuses all say we SHOULD have gone to Afg. What is your plan? Thats right. You don't have one.

Iraq has and always has been a terrorist country, with a murderous dictator! And you plead for his safety?? Shame...

How did you get that I was "pleading for his (Hussein's) safety" out of anything I said? That's just shameless distortion.

Iraq a "terrorist country?" No evidence for this whatsoever. The 9/11 Commission said there was no evidence that Iraq had anything to do with 9/11. Even Bush admitted this. Was Saddam a brutal dictator and an all-around POS? No doubt. However, the world is full of "evil-doers"--we just happened to go after the wrong one instead of the one who has actually been attacking us. (Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda--not Iraq--have responsible for every terrorist attack on US interests in the last 20 years.)

As for Afghanistan, as Kerry pointed out tonight, we had bin Laden surrounded in Tora Bora, and bush let him get away. Bush made a bone-headed move when he decided to send the nothern alliance to get OBL.

[DONKEYSHOW]

How did you get that I was "pleading for his (Hussein's) safety" out of anything I said? That's just shameless distortion.

Iraq a "terrorist country?" No evidence for this whatsoever. The 9/11 Commission said there was no evidence that Iraq had anything to do with 9/11. Even Bush admitted this. Was Saddam a brutal dictator and an all-around POS? No doubt. However, the world is full of "evil-doers"--we just happened to go after the wrong one instead of the one who has actually been attacking us. (Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda--not Iraq--have responsible for every terrorist attack on US interests in the last 20 years.)

As for Afghanistan, as Kerry pointed out tonight, we had bin Laden surrounded in Tora Bora, and bush let him get away. Bush made a bone-headed move when he decided to send the nothern alliance to get OBL.


I dare you to confront the US Army Rangers and tell them that they let Bin Laden get away.. I dare you..

Your a complete joke man. Those guys had nothing more than pure hatred for the guy, and would gladly dissembowel Bin laden given the chance. But you say Bush called off the search, and said Lets go to Iraq instead?? You fool. Bush has scores of secret missions that even cabinet members know nothing about..

Youre pretty naive if you think Bush has given up on bin laden...The guy can live in a freaking 6 ft hole in the ground for who knows how long, and you wonder why anyone can't find him?

You make it sound like if Bush had simply put several hundred thousand troops in the mountainous regions of Afg,. without experience of the terrain, that BL would have been captured. That is funny..

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

I dare you to confront the US Army Rangers and tell them that they let Bin Laden get away.. I dare you..

You're not listening. I said BUSH let bin Laden get away. Bush chose not to use the Army Rangers to do the job. He chose to send a dubious Afghan northern alliance instead. If he had sent the Rangers, then bin Laden would probably be stuffed and mounted right now.

Your a complete joke man.

Since you're the first to make it personal and go for the ad hominem, I'll assume you are out of ammo.

[DONKEYSHOW]

I dare you to confront the US Army Rangers and tell them that they let Bin Laden get away.. I dare you..

You're not listening. I said BUSH let bin Laden get away. Bush chose not to use the Army Rangers to do the job. He chose to send a dubious Afghan northern alliance instead. If he had sent the Rangers, then bin Laden would probably be stuffed and mounted right now.

Your a complete joke man.

Since you're the first to make it personal and go for the ad hominem, I'll assume you are out of ammo.

If the Army Rangers were not there, how did my friend speak to me about it.
And, what about Mr. Tillman. Do you think he was in the only unit that saw live fire in Afg.? Don't try to intimidate me LA. This is much to serious of topic to try and use words like ad hominem. Some folks know as much about things as you do. Believe it or not..

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

If the Army Rangers were not there, how did my friend speak to me about it.
And, what about Mr. Tillman. Do you think he was in the only unit that saw live fire in Afg.? Don't try to intimidate me LA. This is much to serious of topic to try and use words like ad hominem. Some folks know as much about things as you do. Believe it or not..

Who said the Rangers weren't there?

I said that Bush chose not to use the Rangers to close the deal.

In the hunt for bin Laden, bush chose to pull the Rangers and to replace them with the questionable Afghan northern alliance.

http://www.bartcop.com/bush-serv-proof.JPG

[watermock]

Iraq a "terrorist country?" No evidence for this whatsoever.

Why would a country that kills 400,000 of it's own citizens be considered terrorist.

Why would a country that had it's Nuclear Plant Blown up in the 80's when it has the 3rd largest oil reserves in the world be called terrorist?

Why would a country that uninaterally invaded Iran be considered terrorist?

Why would a country that uninaterally invaded Kuwait and Saudi Arabia be considered Terrrorist?

Why would a country literally warehouse bodies with tags on their bodies be considered Terrorist.

Why would a insurgents support sawing off the heads of civilians be considered terroriists?

Why would the second head of Al Qaeda make his home in Iraq?

If I could I would simply biatch slap you.

[bendog]

I crushed you don't read my posts I was in Connecticut, Vermont and Arkansas all summer.

Although I do envy you being in Iowa - great topsoil!

Ever check out Fairhope Ala? It's just across the bay from Mobile. Mrs Dog and I 'disagreed' for years over Gulf Shores. My view is/was that if I could buy a condo in a highrise and come close to servicing the debt with rentals (which is pretty common) and be only a 2.5 hour drive away and get to go down offseason for a weekend a month to just drink beer and read and listen to the waves, I'm happy. Mrs Dog's view is/was she doesn't like highrises and Little Girl Dog would be bored to tears.

Fairhope, however, lacks the beach access, but its got a bay breeze and has the charm of a town. Plus it really is a little town, and not one of those "development" places like SeaSide or Watercolor with gates and new houses.