what a way to win a war.

[TomServo]

Not this war that war: http://www.geocities.com/stu_hill/Tarawa.htm
we did everything wrong it seems. but we learned from our mistakes and prevailed in the end and without that damned all important exit strategy. still,"The reports of over 1000 Marines and 30 Sailors killed in just 3 days, coupled with photo's of dead Marines washed ashore, shocked the nation."
1000 dead in three days compared to 1000 dead in 18 months in another fight to the death.

[TomServo]

and damned if this doesnt sound familiar:"During battles that the Japanese knew that they would lose they would attempt a suicide charge. The aim of the wild frontal assault was to kill as many Marines as possible. Sometimes they strapped TNT to their bodies to explode apon jumping into a foxhole or machine gun nest. The charge called "Banzai" meaning "Long live the Emperor" or "Die for the Emperor"."
also insert allah instead of emperor

[watermock]

Suicide charges are nothing new to a losing enemy.

[TomServo]

i like this bit of information also "Because of the heavy loss of Allied Forces on Tarawa it prompted a congressional investigation. It was eventually stopped by a personal request by Lt. Gen. Vandegrift, Commandant of the Marine Corps."
and what do we do in this day and age? bring back our officers from the war for hearings about some idiots putting womens underwear on prisoners heads.
wwII had just as many f ups as todays war. the people back then just didnt know about them til after the war. like the early kamakaze attacks were extremely effective. unlike the british who had armored flight decks on their carriers, we had wooden decks. wooden decks on a warship. talk about monumental stupidity. yet no one in the navy or fdr's white house ever had to pay for all those sailors lost just because we didnt do the right thing and copy the brits.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

LOL

WWII and Iraq. What an equation.

It would probably take all day to point out the reasons why this equation doesn't work, but here are the most obvious explanations:

In WWII we faced an enemy who had attacked us, and an "evil dictator" who had attacked his neighbors, was an "imminent threat" to world peace, and did have "WMD."

In other words, WWII wasn't a president's vanity war, and it wasn't started with an American pre-emptive invasion of a country that had not attacked us and was not a threat to its neighbors or to anyone else.

If you want to make some meaningful comparisons, try Iraq/Viet Nam.

[patteeu]

LOL

WWII and Iraq. What an equation.

It would probably take all day to point out the reasons why this equation doesn't work, but here are the most obvious explanations:

In WWII we faced an enemy who had attacked us, and an "evil dictator" who had attacked his neighbors, was an "imminent threat" to world peace, and did have "WMD."

In other words, WWII wasn't a president's vanity war, and it wasn't started with an American pre-emptive invasion of a country that had not attacked us and was not a threat to its neighbors or to anyone else.

If you want to make some meaningful comparisons, try Iraq/Viet Nam.

Saddam's forces attacked our aircraft on a nearly daily basis during the period between Gulf War I and the current war.

I think the WWII analogy is more accurate although there are certainly plenty of you guys who are trying to turn this into a Vietnam style defeat.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Saddam's forces attacked our aircraft on a nearly daily basis during the period between Gulf War I and the current war.

"Nearly daily basis" is not quite accurate. Also, those aircraft were in his airspace. His aircraft didn't violate our airspace and attack us ala Pearl Harbor.

...there are certainly plenty of you guys who are trying to turn this into a Vietnam style...

That's correct, if by "you guys," you mean "military experts." In other words, it's not just a bunch of OM members and myself making Iraq/Viet Nam comparisons--it's prominent members of the military and intel community. But I'm sure you'll explain to us how it is that you know more than these experts.

To not see the parallels between Iraq and Viet Nam would be naive and foolhardy indeed.

My money says you're probably not even old enough to remember Viet Nam.

[TomServo]

labf and others do not see iraq as part of the larger war on terror.
im with GWB rummy, cheney and crew who can see it.
many of us do see this as just one part of wwIII
pple who see this as vietnam may do so. thats why were here at a football board. :gripe:
have mistakes been made in iraq? yep. and im sure there will be plenty more b4 its all over.
my point is just like the last big war, plenty of mistakes were made and i cant recall any politician or major military general or admiral getting canned over it.

[watermock]

Those no fly zones were part of the "cease fire". What you dimwits don't seem to understand that Saddam never complied with the terms of the cease fire, in fact, he flaunted his ability to smuggle oil out and made Billions under the UN food for terror programme.

[Cito Pelon]

I don't have a problem with neutralizing radical Mohammedans, I have a problem with how we pay for it. That's a big deal. I don't like getting left holding the bag when GWB and his cronies aren't taking anywhere near the financial hit me and my cronies are. That's a big deal to me.

GWB has made the US appear to be a bigger current threat to the other four Permanent Members of the UN Security Council than radical Islam. He's painted us into a corner deliberately. Why? Because he's convinced that the best course of action is to have the elite holding all the cards. I've been telling you guys for years and years that the object of the elite is to establish colonies on Mars, and they'll use every resource on Earth to get there. Why? Because whoever gains control of the upper-atmosphere rules anybody left on Earth. You digest that a little bit, and remember how GWB emphasized Mars in his State of the Union speech. Do you think the Chinese missed that, or the Russians or French? Nope. They got the picture.

GWB has an agenda, and that agenda is to use radical Mohammedans - or whatever to divide and conquer - to create an avenue of escape for his family and his cronies

You better wake up now. I can't stop that by myself.

[watermock]

Good Grief. It's not about Mars you dimwit, it's about GPS, a quasi weapons platform that the US uses to guide dumb bombs into smart weapons.

How amusing your myopia. As far as the cash cow, the "we are invading Iraq to rape the Iraqis" routine has worn thin since Kuwait Crude is at, or above what is paid on the open market. The fact of the matter is Saddam was using Billions of Dollars thru the Food for Terrorism program the UN, France, Russia, Syria and Germany scammed along with Saddam. If you want to say it's an oil War, you might just want to look at how long you want to ignore that.

Elite holding what cards? a 120 Billion dollar card? The cards were held by the aforementioned countries, Saddam and the UN.

Wrong again. The existing foriegn policy was to place Saddam against Iran and keep the fundamentalists at bay. That policy had failed. I get tired of explaining this again and again. The Food for Terrorism was giving Iraqi citizens not in Saddams Mafia family rotting flour with lice in it, while he resold the food to his friends. The whole thing was falling apart under the "auspices of the UN". The whole this is being stonewalled by Annan and the French, who were given administrative powers. Yet you want to put the Hawk right back into the Chicken house. Unbelievable.

[TomServo]

who knocked down two of the tallest buildings on the planet? we cannot trust our security to anyone, much less the UN or the old european countrys.

[TomServo]

just ask the rawhandans or more recently the sudanese

[watermock]

Tom, I have to digress and assume my own opinions here.

There are very much more serious issues than to talk about "old european countries" and WW2.

Western Europe is very much modern, thanks much but not all to the Marshall plan. The difference is that these countries where historically christian and seem to be blind of the fact that muslim aggressivness had to be beaten back twice in a historical context. That hasn't changed.

The last time I saw a muslim ally was watching the Mummy or Indiana Jones, and that was a select few. :militia:

[TomServo]

what @ france? god knows why but they seemed to have encouraged muslim immigration

[watermock]

what @ france? god knows why but they seemed to have encouraged muslim immigartion

The French still think they are bring in Muslims to drive taxis, wash their toilets and wash their clothes.

The Muslims call it "infiltration". The French are just too damn stupid to understand what is going on. They are the very essence of appeasment and surrender. What a pathetic country.

Saved by America TWICE in the past century along with the enemy. Their own fleet fired on the Americans in Vichy France along the Med, they are extremely racist toward Jews more than Muslims.

They consider Jews a threat, and Muslims a Chinese Laundry. That is how sick their arrogance is. They honestly are naive enough to think there isn't a master plan to get Islam a major foothold. You would be amazed what is talked about in Mosques.

Why do you think they are totally closed? They are plotting! When was the last time a church or synagogue kept anyone out?

[watermock]

Mosques are not open to all people. They are very secretive. It's a joke like some Al Capone hidout half the time.

In an open society, you have to be willing to be open yourself, or your going to breed suspicion. Closed doors are pretty dangerous, especially in a religious sense.

Now I am not going to say the G10 or whatever, or the Hildenbergers are exactly open, but they have established democracies to attend to. I never said the west was perfect. So let's get that out of the way immediately.

[Cito Pelon]

who knocked down two of the tallest buildings on the planet? we cannot trust our security to anyone, much less the UN or the old european countrys.

So you're saying it's us against the world? No matter what? Put your backs to the wall?

I'm asking you, I don't want to get into name-calling contests.

I'm not fooled by the threat of radical Mohammedans. They've increased their power for 1200 years. The big spike was oil money. And that's their best weapon now, because they can buy. Money is power.

I want to push the envelope of this discussion to what it is the ultimate object of all these power games. And that is Mars. MARS is the end-game of the power-brokers on this planet. The Mohammedans are not the power-brokers on this planet, those of you who think they're the biggest threat to your family's future are just dead wrong.

French power-brokers, American power-brokers, Chinese power-brokers, British power-brokers, Australian power-brokers, Russian power-brokers, all of them want Mars. If you allow yourself to be distracted by Mohammedans, you're making a mistake. Mars is the prize, and the power-brokers will leave this planet a wasteland to get their families established there.

[TomServo]

well yes, i believe it is us against the world. who can we rely on but the british? a century of warfare makes anyone trust the europeans?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

labf and others do not see iraq as part of the larger war on terror.

You just don't get it.

Iraq had nothing to do with the "war on terror." Iraq wasn't a threat to us, didn't attack us, and wasn't a terrorist-harboring state. (It is a terrorist stronghold now--thanks to the disaster monkey.) Iraq had no WMD--bush lied and thousands have died needlessly.

In shifting the focus to Iraq, the bush misadministration has allowed the people who actually attacked us to get away, re-group, and recruit legions of new members. Al qaeda is recruiting new members and proliferating at a breakneck pace, the Taliban is back in control of much of Afghanistan, and bin Laden is still at large.

Thanks to Smirk's misadventure in Iraq, we are less prepared/equipped to respond to terrorism and less safe than we were on 9/11.

[watermock]

LABF creates the whole delusional paradigm.

Who told you that we "created terrorists" there buddy boy?

Let me explain something to you dimwit, when you go into a mousehole, you might find Rats.

These bastard don't want anything to do with us, and they are of a Demonic Religion.

Go take a good look at AL Sadr. He makes Rasputen look like a Saint.

Your damn lucky you can spout your crap or you would of been capped months ago.

Your so clueless it's incredible. I don't blame you for your ignorance, I just blame you for your intrancigence against stark reality.

It's not really important, your the type that never really did crap than hide in the sewer so why should I bother.

[watermock]

Tell Rigs or See2PeeOn to talke to me.

Go on, send them in. You honestly think you can bring in proxy and I don't know it?

I pull the rug out from under you at first glance. It's totally amusing.

I'm a damn liberal, and your so damn confused that your don't have a clue. You just don't get it.

[Mile High Shack]

So you're saying it's us against the world? No matter what? Put your backs to the wall?

I'm asking you, I don't want to get into name-calling contests.

I'm not fooled by the threat of radical Mohammedans. They've increased their power for 1200 years. The big spike was oil money. And that's their best weapon now, because they can buy. Money is power.

I want to push the envelope of this discussion to what it is the ultimate object of all these power games. And that is Mars. MARS is the end-game of the power-brokers on this planet. The Mohammedans are not the power-brokers on this planet, those of you who think they're the biggest threat to your family's future are just dead wrong.

French power-brokers, American power-brokers, Chinese power-brokers, British power-brokers, Australian power-brokers, Russian power-brokers, all of them want Mars. If you allow yourself to be distracted by Mohammedans, you're making a mistake. Mars is the prize, and the power-brokers will leave this planet a wasteland to get their families established there.

is this a joke?

[enjolras]

abf and others do not see iraq as part of the larger war on terror.
im with GWB rummy, cheney and crew who can see it.

Educate me.. how has this war helped the war on terror. Hell I'll settle for you explaining to me how this has done anything but HURT us in the long-term.

[Nick C.]

Saddam's forces attacked our aircraft on a nearly daily basis during the period between Gulf War I and the current war.


Attacked "our Aircraft" that was in "his Airspace" we set up the rules to make him look bad. imagin if someone said we could not fly over the north and sounth 3rds of our own land.

[patteeu]

Attacked "our Aircraft" that was in "his Airspace" we set up the rules to make him look bad. imagin if someone said we could not fly over the north and sounth 3rds of our own land.

When you lose a war, you have to deal with little inconveniences like that.

[Nick C.]

When you lose a war, you have to deal with little inconveniences like that.
When you supply a lose cannon with weapons to defeat a common enemy you have to deal with little Inconveniences like him coming back to hunt you.

[watermock]

When you supply a lose cannon with weapons to defeat a common enemy you have to deal with little Inconveniences like him coming back to hunt you.

Like what? CarBombs and Russian RPG's?

You dimwits act like Saddam had American Arms. Nothing could be further from the truth. What the hell are you smoking? His heavy armor and light machine guns and RPG's were Soviet, more techinical weapons were from our Buddies the French and there were conversations with the N. Koreans. Again, you don't know what the hell your talking about. Did you think those were US built tanks we blew to smitherines?

let me explain history to the blind and dumb. The Soviets made enough AK-47's to make dozens of armies, that was the plan. You can still buy one for about 50 bucks. It's worth about 2000 if you can find one and the ATF doesn't burn your house down.

The neatest weapon I have found is a little innocent looking Marlin 22 semi automatic that rocks with high velocity holopoints. They are about 120 bucks. It doesn't have real knock down power, but you can pile it on.

[azbronco]

I don't have a problem with neutralizing radical Mohammedans, I have a problem with how we pay for it. That's a big deal. I don't like getting left holding the bag when GWB and his cronies aren't taking anywhere near the financial hit me and my cronies are. That's a big deal to me.

GWB has made the US appear to be a bigger current threat to the other four Permanent Members of the UN Security Council than radical Islam. He's painted us into a corner deliberately. Why? Because he's convinced that the best course of action is to have the elite holding all the cards. I've been telling you guys for years and years that the object of the elite is to establish colonies on Mars, and they'll use every resource on Earth to get there. Why? Because whoever gains control of the upper-atmosphere rules anybody left on Earth. You digest that a little bit, and remember how GWB emphasized Mars in his State of the Union speech. Do you think the Chinese missed that, or the Russians or French? Nope. They got the picture.

GWB has an agenda, and that agenda is to use radical Mohammedans - or whatever to divide and conquer - to create an avenue of escape for his family and his cronies

You better wake up now. I can't stop that by myself.

Dude, That Peyote is kickin' in HARD!

[watermock]

We allready control the upper atmosphere, check your new cars GPS. And it isn't on Mars.

Absolutely Astounding Ignorance.

What the hell are we going to do on Mars? Play Marvin the Martian?

There is only one reason to go to Mars. To show the ancient ruins. There is so much evidence of ancient civilization on Mars that even the censors can't control it all.

[watermock]

GWB has an agenda, and that agenda is to use radical Mohammedans - or whatever to divide and conquer - to create an avenue of escape for his family and his cronies

Pass me the glass pipe.

[orinjkrush]

mars???? lmao!! gotta be. damn, knew the mooselimbs had a hard on for the space shuttle.

IMHO Iraq has become Vietnam II. The mission is all wrong. Taking out Saddam was the right thing to do. Trying to rebuild it, (and protect the oil) was somebody smokin too much. Our forces are not designed to occupy territory. They are and were designed to take the fight to the enemy.

I do think it is WWIV; if you don't see it, then i guess call to prayers is for you. We (Russia and us) should take Iran next and destroy their nuke facilities. Allah help us if they get nukes. If we don't go move 'em now, our troops may be held hostage when Israel attacks Iran's nuke facilities (sooner rather than later). But we don't want to occupy Iran either.

(Geez after reading myself, i think i need Mocks glass pipe.)

scary as it sounds, i think this is a battle of civilizations.

Maybe it really is about Mars.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

mars???? lmao!! gotta be. damn, knew the mooselimbs had a hard on for the space shuttle.

IMHO Iraq has become Vietnam II. The mission is all wrong. Taking out Saddam was the right thing to do. Trying to rebuild it, (and protect the oil) was somebody smokin too much. Our forces are not designed to occupy territory. They are and were designed to take the fight to the enemy.

I do think it is WWIV; if you don't see it, then i guess call to prayers is for you. We (Russia and us) should take Iran next and destroy their nuke facilities. Allah help us if they get nukes. If we don't go move 'em now, our troops may be held hostage when Israel attacks Iran's nuke facilities (sooner rather than later). But we don't want to occupy Iran either.

(Geez after reading myself, i think i need Mocks glass pipe.)

scary as it sounds, i think this is a battle of civilizations.

Maybe it really is about Mars.


LOL

Good points.

As for me, I would need more convincing that Iran is building nuclear weapons.

They have said time and time again that their doors are open to inspectors.

(But we all know the bush neocons' philosophy about inspections.)

[watermock]

It's not my glass pipe, I passed.

I can't touch that thing or I wake up with cockroaches around me. No thanks.

You wouldn't believe some of my freebase stories. They would put Pryor to shame.

[Cito Pelon]

well yes, i believe it is us against the world. who can we rely on but the british? a century of warfare makes anyone trust the europeans?

I don't like that backing us into a corner, "us against the world." The main problem is we get into that mentality, and before you know it you're no longer a democracy. All people want is a strong leader, and sure enough a strong-man will make himself available to repel our many enemies. Things will be tough on everybody but his cronies, but that's OK, he'll provide security. Been there done that. That's why the Europeans are shy of wars. I don't have a problem with war, it's how you come out of it that's important to middle-class families like mine.

If you think the current conflicts are about weapons, territory, food, water, religion, you're wrong. The object is to accumulate enough wealth and power to win Mars. Weapons, territory, food, water, religion are all TOOLS to get enough wealth and power to win Mars.

You think about that a little bit. Don't waste time, though. If you let the elite separate from you enough, you're grandkids will be their slaves/serfs. Again. Don't sneer and scoff at me, just listen and consider. I'm letting you in on this because I can't stop the elite by myself.

[watermock]

The object is to accumulate enough wealth and power to win Mars.

So what are we going to do when we "capture" Mars Cito?

Your trying to make me laugh to death right?

So what astounding advantage of gaining "control" of Mars is going to produce the United States Cito?

I really am interested, because for all accounts it's pretty much sand. There may be great quanities of gold, maybe, but I want to know what exactly you have planned first.

[watermock]

Give me a link Cito, give me a link.

[Cito Pelon]

Dude, That Peyote is kickin' in HARD!

You better wake up and think. Mars is the big prize of every space program. Mile-high Shack asks if this is a joke. Mock asks if we should play Marvin the Martian. LABF would rather argue minutiae than the big-picture (Sorry, LABF, I don't like criticizing an ally).

Where the **** you guys been? Haven't you been paying attention? Jesus, Mary, and Joseph, the Chinese have stated unequivically the object of their space program is to establish a colony on the Moon. The object is to control Earth. They're not going to waste money on ground wars. BTW, the Chinese pretty much control everything Kim Il Jong does. Why waste money on wars on this planet when if you control the Moon, you rule the Earth? GPS, my ass. The Big Prize is Mars. Don't waste your time focusing on penny-ante games, you may have to play them to get to the Big Table, and you have to win them to play at the Big Table, but the US is already at the Big Table.

What middle-class people need to understand is that they're not at the Big Table in their own country right now under GWB's leadership. The US can win Mars, but the elite are cornering all the chips on the Big Table in the US right now under GWB's leadership.

[watermock]

How amusing. Oh.

Now I understand.

Jesus, Mary, and Joseph, the Chinese have stated unequivically the object of their space program is to establish a colony on the Moon. The object is to control Earth.

I thought it was Mars, not it's the Moon! Hey they both start with M so what's the difference right?

O I get it now. We have to get to mars before Jesus, Mary, Joseph and the Chinese.

[watermock]

Just for amusement.

Why not explain to us dullards what is so important about "capturing" the moon when the Antarctic may have billions apon billions of fossil fuels? Or Siberia?

Tell me why moon/mars is so important to controling the earth there Cito.

[DONKEYSHOW]

Just for amusement.

Why not explain to us dullards what is so important about "capturing" the moon when the Antarctic may have billions apon billions of fossil fuels? Or Siberia?

Tell me why moon/mars is so important to controling the earth there Cito.


eeehh, pass me over that dooobage. :rainbow:

[watermock]

You better wake up and think. Mars is the big prize of every space program. Mile-high Shack asks if this is a joke. Mock asks if we should play Marvin the Martian. LABF would rather argue minutiae than the big-picture (Sorry, LABF, I don't like criticizing an ally).

Where the **** you guys been? Haven't you been paying attention? Jesus, Mary, and Joseph, the Chinese have stated unequivically the object of their space program is to establish a colony on the Moon. The object is to control Earth. They're not going to waste money on ground wars. BTW, the Chinese pretty much control everything Kim Il Jong does. Why waste money on wars on this planet when if you control the Moon, you rule the Earth? GPS, my ass. The Big Prize is Mars. Don't waste your time focusing on penny-ante games, you may have to play them to get to the Big Table, and you have to win them to play at the Big Table, but the US is already at the Big Table.

What middle-class people need to understand is that they're not at the Big Table in their own country right now under GWB's leadership. The US can win Mars, but the elite are cornering all the chips on the Big Table in the US right now under GWB's leadership.

Dude, if you think the ISS is a waste of money, wait till you colonize the Moon or Mars.

If you want a missle to spend 3 months traveling from Mars to attack us, Or two days from the moon, when an ICBM can obliterate Moscow in 45 minutes, be my guest.

WTF are you reading, Comic books?

[watermock]

the Chinese have stated unequivically the object of their space program is to establish a colony on the Moon.

I honestly can't believe your are so ignorant. The Chinese are masking "space exploration to develop long range nuclear missles.

The Chinese have as much interest in Mars as Walt Disney. They are masking their ICBM program.

It's just like Iran...they are only developing bomb fuel to make electricity, altho they are refining it to bomb quality, not nuclear fuel quality.

Just like North Korea, which just the other day told us to **** off on the "agreement" the great Clinton arranged that fed their military. China can feed the bastards.

Your so incredibly clueless it's literally astounding. If any race is pragmatic, it's asiatics. China has it's eyes set on Taiwan, not Mars you dimwit.

[Mile High Shack]

You better wake up and think. Mars is the big prize of every space program. Mile-high Shack asks if this is a joke. Mock asks if we should play Marvin the Martian. LABF would rather argue minutiae than the big-picture (Sorry, LABF, I don't like criticizing an ally).

Where the **** you guys been? Haven't you been paying attention? Jesus, Mary, and Joseph, the Chinese have stated unequivically the object of their space program is to establish a colony on the Moon. The object is to control Earth. They're not going to waste money on ground wars. BTW, the Chinese pretty much control everything Kim Il Jong does. Why waste money on wars on this planet when if you control the Moon, you rule the Earth? GPS, my ass. The Big Prize is Mars. Don't waste your time focusing on penny-ante games, you may have to play them to get to the Big Table, and you have to win them to play at the Big Table, but the US is already at the Big Table.

What middle-class people need to understand is that they're not at the Big Table in their own country right now under GWB's leadership. The US can win Mars, but the elite are cornering all the chips on the Big Table in the US right now under GWB's leadership.

this folks, is an example of the hazards of the modern day internet.

[patteeu]

When you supply a lose cannon with weapons to defeat a common enemy you have to deal with little Inconveniences like him coming back to hunt you.

OK. Thanks to GWBush we are dealing with it. What's your point? And how does that point relate to our previous exchange regarding Saddam's restrictions in the no-fly zones?

[patteeu]

Like what? CarBombs and Russian RPG's?

You dimwits act like Saddam had American Arms. Nothing could be further from the truth. What the hell are you smoking? His heavy armor and light machine guns and RPG's were Soviet, more techinical weapons were from our Buddies the French and there were conversations with the N. Koreans. Again, you don't know what the hell your talking about. Did you think those were US built tanks we blew to smitherines?

let me explain history to the blind and dumb. The Soviets made enough AK-47's to make dozens of armies, that was the plan. You can still buy one for about 50 bucks. It's worth about 2000 if you can find one and the ATF doesn't burn your house down.

The neatest weapon I have found is a little innocent looking Marlin 22 semi automatic that rocks with high velocity holopoints. They are about 120 bucks. It doesn't have real knock down power, but you can pile it on.


I asssumed he was talking about Bin Laden, but you might be right.

[Mile High Shack]

OK. Thanks to GWBush we are dealing with it. What's your point? And how does that point relate to our previous exchange regarding Saddam's restrictions in the no-fly zones?


oh don't mind him, he's just a stupid high school kid full of socialist passion

that'll change when he gets into the real world and realizes you have to work to make a living.

[patteeu]

I don't like that backing us into a corner, "us against the world." The main problem is we get into that mentality, and before you know it you're no longer a democracy. All people want is a strong leader, and sure enough a strong-man will make himself available to repel our many enemies. Things will be tough on everybody but his cronies, but that's OK, he'll provide security. Been there done that. That's why the Europeans are shy of wars. I don't have a problem with war, it's how you come out of it that's important to middle-class families like mine.

If you think the current conflicts are about weapons, territory, food, water, religion, you're wrong. The object is to accumulate enough wealth and power to win Mars. Weapons, territory, food, water, religion are all TOOLS to get enough wealth and power to win Mars.

You think about that a little bit. Don't waste time, though. If you let the elite separate from you enough, you're grandkids will be their slaves/serfs. Again. Don't sneer and scoff at me, just listen and consider. I'm letting you in on this because I can't stop the elite by myself.


How did you find out about this secret plan to secure Mars, Cito? I appreciate you letting us in on it, but how can we tell the difference between your genuine attempt to rally the folks against a threat to our freedom and the ravings of a paranoid lunatic?

[Rigs11]

Tell Rigs or See2PeeOn to talke to me.

Go on, send them in. You honestly think you can bring in proxy and I don't know it?

I pull the rug out from under you at first glance. It's totally amusing.

I'm a damn liberal, and your so damn confused that your don't have a clue. You just don't get it.

What are you babbling about shetheel? I can see that your ego keeps swelling faster than the national deficit.

[Captain_Poncho]

I want to hear more conspiracy theories about getting control of Mars.

It's frigging fanTAStic!

Personally, I think the Islamanuts are just being used by the Romulans as a distraction so we won't see when their warships drop out of warp an into Earth's orbit. Maybe we ought to appeal to the Klingons for some help.

[bendog]

F8cking Halliburton

[Captain_Poncho]

Haliburton has ties to the Romulans, I bet.

Pointy-eared bastards!

[TomServo]

jubus i had no idea a thread @ the f-ups of wwII compared to the iraq war would turn this way. rofl
and damn just when i was gonna start about a thread about the website jeffrense ic some one beat me to it.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Haliburton has ties to the Romulans, I bet.

Pointy-eared bastards!

Not sure about ties to the Romulans, but goFyourself's old company has been hit with one government investigation and/or lawsuit after another.

So far, the company has shelled out some serious ducats to settle some of these suits.

And while our troops are making all the sacrifices, fighting to avoid losing their combat pay, and losing their veteran's benefits, Halliburton is making billions in war profits. All this while BushCo slashes the VA budget and axes benefits for the families of active duty military personnel.

The Romulans suddenly seem like very nice people by comparison.

[watermock]

Another bunch of accusations without a hint of foundation.

Provide a link that can't be dismissed out of hand. Show me how Veterans are losing all their benefits. show me a link.

Show me the slashing of the VA budget with a link.

Show me where Bush is axing the benefits for active duty personel with a link.

wouldn't we have a riot on our hands right now?

So put up the links. If I buy them, I will buy it.

[Captain_Poncho]

The Romulans suddenly seem like very nice people by comparison.

Spoken like a man who's never been in a Romulan interrogation.

I still have scars, I tell you!

When I get my starship and drive the Chinese off of Mars, my next stop is the Neutral Zone to kick some serious Romulan ass!

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Another bunch of accusations without a hint of foundation.

Provide a link that can't be dismissed out of hand. Show me how Veterans are losing all their benefits. show me a link.

Show me the slashing of the VA budget with a link.

.
http://www.uslaboragainstwar.org/downloads/VetBudgetCuts.pdf

http://vfw.org/index.cfm?fa=news.newsDtl&did=1039

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

Back to Tawara - It was the US's first beach landing. The tide charts were wrong and many of the landing craft got hung up on the reefs. The japanese had reinforced their bunkers with coconut tree logs which protected them from most of the small arms fire and like the article said, much of the artillery bounced off and the visibility was bad for air support. Over 4800 Japanese and 1000 Americans died for an island of about 300 acres. It is a part of history most people have never learned. Read "Utmost Savagery - The three days of Tawara" by Col. Joseph Alexander if you want to know what a horror show it really was.

[bendog]

?

[watermock]

What I see is a 7.7 percent increase along with a copayment increase for soldiers making over 24K.

Your not going to get mock to agree to anything regarding our soldiers medical care. I don't think you have a leg to stand on so to speak. Our wounded soldiers are treated the best of all time. This is more hysterical bullshiat. For all your biatching, show me one soldier that says that triage isn't on the spot. This is another example of hysterical self delusion. The US Solidier is not being neglected by medics. Your simply playing a numbers game.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

GOP Senators Tell Unpleasant Truths

...if you dont want to hear a Democrat say that the situation in Iraq is deteriorating dangerously, listen to a Republican Senator instead. "The worst thing we can do is hold ourselves hostage to some grand illusion were winning," said Chuck Hagel, a Republican from Nebraska. "Right now, we are not winning. Things are getting worse . The fact is, were in deep trouble in Iraq."

http://www.observer.com/pages/conason.asp

http://www.bartcop.com/what-mess.gif

[Cito Pelon]

Spoken like a man who's never been in a Romulan interrogation.

I still have scars, I tell you!

When I get my starship and drive the Chinese off of Mars, my next stop is the Neutral Zone to kick some serious Romulan ass!

Starship or no, I wouldn't count on you to pick up after my dog. I could be wrong, but that's the way I see it now.