Stolen Honor

[Rascal]

Check this out...

'Stolen Honor' Released

Meanwhile, former Sen. Bob Dole, a Republican, joined various Vietnam prisoners of war to unveil a documentary Thursday entitled, "Stolen Honor: Wounds that Never Heal."

The documentary details how when Kerry appeared before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee in the spring of 1971, his anti-war testimony accusing American soldiers of barbaric acts in Vietnam sent shock waves throughout America and the world.

In the film, former POWs tell their stories of what they describe as their brutal life as prisoners of war in North Vietnam and the additional suffering and extended captivity they endured after their North Vietnamese captors read to them Kerry's testimony accusing American soldiers of atrocities. Their jailors demanded they confess to Kerry's "war crimes" allegations, the POWs say.

Funding for the documentary was made possible by Pennsylvania veterans.



I'm sorry but this is just getting freaking ridiculous. Everybody needs to drop the Vietnam argument and never have it mentioned again during this election. That means Kerry and his supporters don't say anything about his service or attack Bush, and Bush and his supporters don't defend his service or attack Kerry.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Check this out...

I'm sorry but this is just getting freaking ridiculous. Everybody needs to drop the Vietnam argument and never have it mentioned again during this election. That means Kerry and his supporters don't say anything about his service or attack Bush, and Bush and his supporters don't defend his service or attack Kerry.
Did you make this same request two weeks ago when the right was attacking Kerry's military record?

[Rascal]

I don't remember...why?

What as that got to do with it?

[Mile High Shack]

Did you make this same request two weeks ago when the right was attacking Kerry's military record?


I'm pretty sure he did, just like most of us did

the vietnam stuff does nothing for our country

I could care less what either did during vietnam

only thing that disappoints me is how Kerry reacted after he came back and blasted all of his comrades.

[bendog]

If you read what he said, he blasted LBJ and NIxon and their henchmen for a trumped up war that was never intended to be won. We did target civilians, not as collateral damage, but as actual targets. Nixon's bombing campaigns. Forced village "relocations." Indiscriminate dropping of mines. Etc. But, a lot of old vets still refuse the fact that their sacrafice was a waste from the start, and they lash out at anyone who has ever said that.

Perhaps Kerry hasteneed the end of the war - which would be a positive of his taking a stand. Perhaps Kerry's words were used by the NV's to berate and torture our prisoners - which is obviously a negative. But in the end it comes down to that he took a stand against what he saw as a govt abusing its soldiers. We could debate whether that was good or bac, but at least he acted out of some moral belief. He seems to have lost that "fire" somewhere, though. BushII conversely seemed to lack any fire, except for tax cuts, in 00. Now he's into unilateral nationbuilding. It's amazing.

[Rascal]

You are giving Kerry credit for ending the war in Vietnam or at least hastening it?

LOL!!!

That's freaking hillarious. I've got some beach front property here in Oklahoma to sell you!!

If you are going to take a stand against the gov't of its treatment of soldiers, why in the hell would incriminate your fellow soldiers by saying what he said. That is ridiculous.

Holding on to Kerry's jockstrap a little to tight there bendog be careful.

[bendog]

I used the word "perhaps." Perhaps he forced Nixon to move faster to get it off the election in 72. Certainly Nixon didn't want the vietnam vets from turning the Miami convention into a bloodbath, which they nearly did. I don't know all that Nixon considered. But Nixon wanted the war off the table for the election. that's a fact. But I'm also not willing to accept that Kerry's actions somehow helped the NV's. So, I used the word "perhaps" there too. By 72 the war was lost. The only question was how many more dead and maimed we'd have. Actually it was lost by 68.

However, in the end you are left with one guy who acted on his convictions in 72, and another guy who took a pass. Whether you agree with the convictions or not, one cared and one took a pass. I don't see it has much relevance to who is the better potientila potus today though. But its a joke to see viagra Bob out there with the viet vets he has less in common with than they have with WJC. And Dole said as much in the WWII commemorations a year or so ago. Their experieces were not the same as his.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

I don't remember...why?

What as that got to do with it?
Now that Bush's record shows he didn't obey direct orders from a superior officer and can't explain his extended absence while on duty and is the beneficiary of preferential treatment we should all drop it?

Again, did you call for dropping this whole thing two weeks ago when the right was attacking Kerry's military record or were you part of the crowd criticizing Kerry's military record?

[Rascal]

Again...I don't remember.

But I do know that i have said numerous times that we should honor Kerry for his service, but we should not honor and should question what he said when he got back.

Yes I want this entire thing dropped. All its going to be is a mudslinging competition without ever focusing on the issues.

[Rohirrim]

My main disgust with Bush/Cheney is that they are guys who shirked their own call to duty and now send other Americans into battle. Hypocrites and chickenhawks.

Not only that - They smear the records of actual combat soldiers.

[winstoncup bronco]

My main disgust with Bush/Cheney is that they are guys who shirked their own call to duty and now send other Americans into battle. Hypocrites and chickenhawks.

Not only that - They smear the records of actual combat soldiers.

So tell me then, what was it like to vote against Bill Clinton? I mean, I know you're a man of conviction, and would never change your view on something to fit your agenda.

George H.W. Bush and Bob Dole were both war heroes, and Dole has the physical disability to prove it, yet the left supported a known draft dodger. Funny how they didn't care back then.....

[bendog]

They're Pols. LBJ ordered a plane to fly somewhere so he could say he'd been close to combat. The gop smeared JFK, saying he wasn't all that heroic. The irony is that like McCain he was a crappy driver, and like Kerry he had his crew and his wounds.

I like hardball ... sort of. More than male sychronized diving, less than Bronco replays. But its the cable stuff, where they think they have to give equal time to crap. That guy with swift**** was PAID by NIXON to go after Kerry. Hello, nuff said.

[Rascal]

I used the word "perhaps." Perhaps he forced Nixon to move faster to get it off the election in 72. Certainly Nixon didn't want the vietnam vets from turning the Miami convention into a bloodbath, which they nearly did. I don't know all that Nixon considered. But Nixon wanted the war off the table for the election. that's a fact. But I'm also not willing to accept that Kerry's actions somehow helped the NV's. So, I used the word "perhaps" there too. By 72 the war was lost. The only question was how many more dead and maimed we'd have. Actually it was lost by 68.

However, in the end you are left with one guy who acted on his convictions in 72, and another guy who took a pass. Whether you agree with the convictions or not, one cared and one took a pass. I don't see it has much relevance to who is the better potientila potus today though. But its a joke to see viagra Bob out there with the viet vets he has less in common with than they have with WJC. And Dole said as much in the WWII commemorations a year or so ago. Their experieces were not the same as his.

I find it hillarious that you used the word convictions in association with Kerry.

[bendog]

Clinton dissed Dole or Poppy's war record? Kerry would have been better served politically to just fade into a campaign. He had the conviction that vietnam was a bunch of crap, and he was right. He acted on it. Accept it and move on. (pun intended)

[Rascal]

Bush hasn't dissed Kerry's war record. He's dissed what he did afterwords though.

And you, or Ro, never answered winston's question.

[Rascal]

Clinton dissed Dole or Poppy's war record? Kerry would have been better served politically to just fade into a campaign. He had the conviction that vietnam was a bunch of crap, and he was right. He acted on it. Accept it and move on. (pun intended)


I think vietnam was a bunch of crap to. But to do what he did when he got back was inexcusable.

I respect him and honor him for his service in Vietnam, but what he did after makes it hard to repect and honor him.

And I'm still laughing that you use the word conviction with Kerry.

[Rohirrim]

So tell me then, what was it like to vote against Bill Clinton? I mean, I know you're a man of conviction, and would never change your view on something to fit your agenda.

George H.W. Bush and Bob Dole were both war heroes, and Dole has the physical disability to prove it, yet the left supported a known draft dodger. Funny how they didn't care back then.....

I don't remember Clinton even mentioning Bush I or Dole's war record, let alone sending out surrogates to smear them.

[bendog]

I don't know. I thought guys like Kerry and Ron Kovac had tons of conviction. they were mad as hell aobut being used. those guys scared the hell out of Nixon. He couldn't just call them coward sleezeballs. Once mainstream America saw Vets in the damn streets in Mia, it was truly done. But, what followed in the killing fields was awful, but it was foregone.

Now the guys who were never in any danger of going to vietnam who hung around protests to get laid ... yeah. WJC. yeah, though he may have cared about working poor and economics.

[Rohirrim]

Clinton didn't get a "Daddy" deferment so he could earn "Cs" at Yale. He got a Rhodes Scholarship to Oxford. Only a complete dimwit would pass on that kind of opportunity.

Also, keep in mind, Clinton came from a poor, single mother family. He had squat. No strings attached. Everything he got, he earned through his performance.

[Rascal]

I don't remember Clinton even mentioning Bush I or Dole's war record, let alone sending out surrogates to smear them.

Whatever Ro.

Go ahead and try to spin this without addressing the question.

You said, "they are guys who shirked their own call to duty and now send other Americans into battle. Hypocrites and chickenhawks."

Did Clinton send soldiers into battle...yes...did he "shirked" his call to duty...yes.

So either you fess up and say that yes Clinton was a hypocrite and chickenhawk or not. If not then you are saying that you are a hypocrite.

[Rohirrim]

Whatever Ro.

Go ahead and try to spin this without addressing the question.

You said, "they are guys who shirked their own call to duty and now send other Americans into battle. Hypocrites and chickenhawks."

Did Clinton send soldiers into battle...yes...did he "shirked" his call to duty...yes.

So either you fess up and say that yes Clinton was a hypocrite and chickenhawk or not. If not then you are saying that you are a hypocrite.

See post #19. I don't remember Clinton ever doing any tough guy, macho act either - which Cheney is famous for.

[azbronco]

Clinton didn't get a "Daddy" deferment so he could earn "Cs" at Yale. He got a Rhodes Scholarship to Oxford. Only a complete dimwit would pass on that kind of opportunity.

Also, keep in mind, Clinton came from a poor, single mother family. He had squat. No strings attached. Everything he got, he earned through his performance.

Unfortunatly look at what he did with it. He disgraced the office of president and made lying into an artform. The left/dems have picked up the torch and are carrying it proudly. And you have th audacity to use the word conviction. He left this country with weakend defenses and striped the intellegence community of their abilities. He left the country headed for and before you start, it's not just about a blow job from a plump chick. Earned through his performance? Wow
Jeez, how can you stay in the party? political party that is.

[Mile High Shack]

See post #19. I don't remember Clinton ever doing any tough guy, macho act either - which Cheney is famous for.

http://yoshi.2yr.net/pics/pics-from-cyp/spin.jpg

[azbronco]

See post #19. I don't remember Clinton ever doing any tough guy, macho act either - which Cheney is famous for.
Lobbing missles, wag the dog come on Ro, is your memory failing?

[bendog]

I thought WJC looked "deservedly" sheepish when visiting the troops. He was a good cartaker president though, but he wasted his opportunity to truly work for poor people. I think what annoys Dems so much is that they think BushII should look equally if not more sheepish around guys who are giving it all up.

400 kids have lost a parent in Iraq.

[Rohirrim]

Unfortunatly look at what he did with it. He disgraced the office of president and made lying into an artform. The left/dems have picked up the torch and are carrying it proudly. And you have th audacity to use the word conviction. He left this country with weakend defenses and striped the intellegence community of their abilities. He left the country headed for and before you start, it's not just about a blow job from a plump chick. Earned through his performance? Wow
Jeez, how can you stay in the party? political party that is.

I'm not the guy who is going to argue that Clinton didn't eff it up big time. He had great talents, a great mind, and a great opportunity - and then threw it away for a little poon tang. But you're giving him way too much power. After the fall of the USSR, Congress had a yard sale on the military and the intelligence systems. Lots of folks on the right were on board with that one. At the time, it sounded good. Now, it looks pretty stupid.

[Mile High Shack]

400 kids have lost a parent in Iraq.

I think we need a referendum on the horrible way Bush is handling the highways and interestates as well

A total of 42,643 people died, and 2.89 million were injured in 2003

[bendog]

I think BushII has added a lot of pork spending too. I'm real sorry I voted for him. I'm even sorrier there are 400 orphans cause he made a bad call on unilateral natonbuilding. I'd prolly vote for Hillary Clinton at this pt.

[Rascal]

You can thank part of that garage sell of our military to clinton if not the majority..who never once rejected or even hinted at opposing any kind of military cutbacks.

[Rohirrim]

You can thank part of that garage sell of our military to clinton if not the majority..who never once rejected or even hinted at opposing any kind of military cutbacks.

Different time, different outlook. That's back when the Iron Curtain collapsed, we were all rolling in tech dough, and everybody was an optimist. "We don't need no stinking military. We don't need no stinking CIA agents."

[bendog]

we outspend the top 7 other nations combined in defense. Poppy cut defense. We have enough to topple any tin horn dictator who is any possible threat, but we don't have, and won't ever have, enough for unilateral nation building. Powell Weinberger doctrine at work.