Health Care Premiums Jump 11.2 Percent

[Bronco_Beerslug]

What is this administration's plan again on healthcare?

---------------------------------
By THERESA AGOVINO, AP Business Writer

NEW YORK - Health care costs continued to surge this year as family premiums in employer-sponsored plans jumped 11.2 percent, the fourth year of double-digit growth, according to a new study.

The cumulative effect of rising health care costs is taking a toll on workers: There are at least 5 million fewer jobs providing health insurance in 2004 than there were in 2001, according to the survey of 3,017 companies by the Kaiser Family Foundation and the Health Research and Educational Trust.

"Health insurance is becoming unaffordable, especially for small employers. We should expect the ranks of uninsured to grow as small employers can't afford health insurance," said Drew Altman, president of the Kaiser Family Foundation.

Altman noted that the hike in health premiums outpaced both the 2.2 percent growth in wages and 2.3 percent growth in inflation by five times.

This year, 63 percent of firms offered health benefits to workers, down from 68 percent in 2001. The change is primarily driven by a decrease in the number of small firms, those with 3 to 199 workers, that offer coverage.

The average premium for a family of four grew to $9,950 annually. The family premium for a preferred provider organization, the most common type of insurance, hit $10,217 — the first time it broke the $10,000 barrier. PPOs are plans that provide members with a network of discounted providers that charge a copayment but also allows for the opportunity of using other doctors and hospitals.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=2&u=/ap/20040909/ap_on_re_us/health_care_costs

[Mile High Shack]

you can thank the cost of malpractice insurance for the majority of this.......

aka John Edwards type trial lawyers

[Bronco_Beerslug]

you can thank the cost of malpractice insurance for the majority of this.......

aka John Edwards type trial lawyers
That's not correct but I'll look at any links or data you can point to that supports your statement.

[Mile High Shack]

That's not correct but I'll look at any links or data you can point to that supports your statement.

http://www.ncpa.org/iss/leg/2002/pd073102f.html

americans are also more unhealthy than they use to be and living longer
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A29974-2004Aug24.html

just a couple I could find off a limited search.

[Rohirrim]

http://www.grantthornton.com/downloads/Health_Care_Crisis_Drivers_94058.pdf

Litigation is a part of reason, but not even close to the major reason. For one thing, it changes from state to state. California has placed all sorts of caps on malpractice litigation but still suffers from some of the worst cost increases in the nation. One of the worst factors is gouging caused by the consolidation of the health care system into just a handful of giant corporations who set prices wherever they want due to a lack of competition. The others, you can read about on the site provided.

[Mile High Shack]

simple answer

the reason for everything bad in this world and country = George W. Bush

there that should end every argument.

[Rohirrim]

simple answer

the reason for everything bad in this world and country = George W. Bush

there that should end every argument.

Why do you keep spewing such hate against this poor, defenseless president? rofl

[Mile High Shack]

Why do you keep spewing such hate against this poor, defenseless president? rofl


b/c it's obviously true reading everything and your buds type....so I give up, it's stupid to keep chasing my tail

Bush sucks and he is the source of all evil in this world.

Terroists attacked us b/c he was president
Health care goes up b/c he is president
Our economy sucks b/c he is president
People are living on the streets b/c he is president
We guzzle more gas b/c he is president
We are less safe with his as president

there that should solve it all........I'm done with politics in here till Nov. 2nd

this is just stupid and pointless, kinda like pissing into the wind.

[Rohirrim]

Given that you are the only one on this thread to mention Bush, it doesn't make much sense to me, but, Mmmkay.

[Mile High Shack]

Given that you are the only one on this thread to mention Bush, it doesn't make much sense to me, but, Mmmkay.

oh give me a break dude

why else would you all post this, except to blame Bush for this?

don't act coy about it, just own up to it.

[Rohirrim]

oh give me a break dude

why else would you all post this, except to blame Bush for this?

don't act coy about it, just own up to it.

No, I don't blame Bush for this one. The problem came before him, and will last beyond him (no doubt). I just think the Republican habit of blaming the problem on litigation does nothing for the solution. It's another one of those complex problems of our society that calls for a complex solution - not just running around screaming, "The lawyers did it!"

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

The new HIPPA regualtions have added costs at all levels of medical care.

[RaiderH8r]

Who cares? People die, it's a terminal affliction. I hate to give away the ending....you die. Bummer, life goes on. Maybe not for you, but it goes on none the less. The trend towards socialism continues, gimme gimme gimme.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Who cares? People die, it's a terminal affliction. I hate to give away the ending....you die. Bummer, life goes on. Maybe not for you, but it goes on none the less. The trend towards socialism continues, gimme gimme gimme.
Not what this is about. This impacts all of us and effects the overall economy.
This administration won't acknowledge or address it.

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

Not what this is about. This impacts all of us and effects the overall economy.
This administration won't acknowledge or address it.

And the only solution Kery has proposed will cost the taxpayers $600 BILLION per year.

[RaiderH8r]

And the only solution Kery has proposed will cost the taxpayers $600 BILLION per year.
That could have an effect on overall economy.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

And the only solution Kery has proposed will cost the taxpayers $600 BILLION per year.
Where did you get that number? Do you have any links or sources or did you just grab a number?

[Garcia Bronco]

you can thank the cost of malpractice insurance for the majority of this.......

aka John Edwards type trial lawyers



Exactly...not to mention the BS cases that hurt the real victims.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Exactly...not to mention the BS cases that hurt the real victims.
Like I said, this isn't the main reason for higher healthcare costs. If you read the link Rohirrim posted you can see more clearly where the costs are coming from.

[watermock]

Listen Dimwit, health care costs are set by competition.

What part of this don't you understand.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

What is this administration's plan again on healthcare?

Same as its plan for everything else:

Tax cuts for the super-rich.

http://www.bartcop.com/sure-work.jpg

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Where did you get that number? Do you have any links or sources or did you just grab a number?

Try freerepublic.com

;)

[Dr. Broncenstein]

Medical liability is THE reason for rising health care costs. We as physicians must first and foremost cover our asses by leaving absolutely no stone uncovered... no matter how practical it may be. You miss one thing, and you are hung out to dry. You can do everything right by the book and still get sued.

Take the typical dirtbag "chest pain" patients I see daily. The words "chest pain" instantly buys an admission, serial laboratory, EKG, and echocardiogram right off the bat. It doesn't matter how atypical the presentation may be... one person with any kind of chest pain who goes home and has a bad outcome leaves the doc with no defense. ER frequent flyers know this, and use this all of the time. Billions of dollars are wasted on this scenario alone. Clinical judgement by a trained physician is completely thrown out the window for fear of litigation.

Now take John Edwards. He made his money suing OB/GYNs, blaming Cerebal Palsy on delayed cesarian section... lots of money. We have the highest incidence of cesarian section in the entire world - around 25% - yet, the incidence of CP has remained unchanged. The monetary cost of a cesarian is phenomenal, let alone the surgical risks imposed on the mother and baby. Yet, every OB I know is running scared and opts for C-section if there is any trouble whatsoever.

This is the tip of the iceberg. Every specialty has their own liability problems. The best healthcare system in the world is being destroyed by malpractice attourneys by forcing doctors to practice defense instead of patient care. There will be a catastrophic collapse if drastic steps aren't taken now.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Medical liability is THE reason for rising health care costs.

Looks like someone's been feeding at the right-wing disinfo trough.

Bush and Cheney continue to dishonestly claim that trial lawyers are to blame for skyrocketing health care costs. Bush said that "frivolous lawsuits...run up the cost of medicine" and that solutions to health care problems were stopped in Congress "because the trial lawyers are powerful in the Senate." Similarly, Cheney said last week that "medical liability reform" is the key to "control the cost of health care."

According to the CBO, lawsuits have little -- if anything -- to do with health care costs.

The Congressional Budget Office says costs from malpractice lawsuits represent less than 2% of the nation's total health care spending, and the tort reform legislation pushed by President Bush would reduce health insurance premiums by less than one-half of one percent.

http://www.misleader.org/daily_misl...df07062004.html

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Medical liability is THE reason for rising health care costs. We as physicians must first and foremost cover our asses by leaving absolutely no stone uncovered... no matter how practical it may be. You miss one thing, and you are hung out to dry. You can do everything right by the book and still get sued.

Take the typical dirtbag "chest pain" patients I see daily. .
Typical "dirtbag" patient? In another post you claimed you hold no bias in treating your patients.
How do your patients react when you call them "dirtbags"?
I'll make my statement again. I hope I never need treatment in your hospital!!!
What hospital is that, by the way.

[Mile High Shack]

yep....figures, take one sentence out of there and try to deflect the real criticism from a real doctor.

figures......

[Bronco_Beerslug]

yep....figures, take one sentence out of there and try to deflect the real criticism from a real doctor.

figures......
Figures you would defend medical doctors who refer to their patients as "dirtbags".

[Mile High Shack]

Figures you would defend medical doctors who refer to their patients as "dirtbags".


hmmm, seems to me, I have called my customers a few choice names, along with a few of my bosses too behind their backs

BUT, I didn't ever give less than 100% in either case

I keep forgetting liberals like you just make everyone feel all warm and gooey inside all the time.

[Rohirrim]

Typical "dirtbag" patient? In another post you claimed you hold no bias in treating your patients.
How do your patients react when you call them "dirtbags"?
I'll make my statement again. I hope I never need treatment in your hospital!!!
What hospital is that, by the way.

No shiite! Thank god if I have to run into this kind of doctor I'll be able to hire a lawyer to protect my interests. rofl

Naw, these docs are just all pissed off because nobody considers them "Gods" anymore. Once again, the "entitlement" era raises its ugly head. Everybody thinks they deserve something. Bush thinks the wealthy (all his buddies and the only people he's ever known) deserve to pay none of those "pesky" taxes. "Hey, we were born into this money. Why do you deserve any of it?" They cry. Now the docs want to cut off the wrong leg, or leave the scissors in the patient, or administer the wrong medication that turns you into a vegetable, with complete immunity. "I'm a doctor!" They cry. "I went to medical school. No one can question me!"

[Rohirrim]

hmmm, seems to me, I have called my customers a few choice names, along with a few of my bosses too behind their backs

BUT, I didn't ever give less than 100% in either case

I keep forgetting liberals like you just make everyone feel all warm and gooey inside all the time.

Is there any reprehensible behavior that you won't defend - as long as it comes from somebody on the Right, eh?

[Mile High Shack]

Is there any reprehensible behavior that you won't defend - as long as it comes from somebody on the Right, eh?


it's amazing you question this guy's skills as a doctor w/o even knowing him.........

is there anyone on the right you won't attack if they disagree with you?

[Rohirrim]

it's amazing you question this guy's skills as a doctor w/o even knowing him.........

is there anyone on the right you won't attack if they disagree with you?

Who's questioning his skills? I'm questioning a doctor calling his patients "dirtbags." Sounds to me like he's in the wrong profession.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

hmmm, seems to me, I have called my customers a few choice names, along with a few of my bosses too behind their backs

BUT, I didn't ever give less than 100% in either case

I keep forgetting liberals like you just make everyone feel all warm and gooey inside all the time.
I have an idea for you so you can better tell how many people agree with your defense of the doctor.
Post a poll. How many people would like to be a patient of a doctor who refers to their patients as "dirtbags" and how many wouldn't.

[Garcia Bronco]

Like I said, this isn't the main reason for higher healthcare costs. If you read the link Rohirrim posted you can see more clearly where the costs are coming from.


There are many reasons for many things.....but I work for the 6th largest Insurance Agency in the world...I know a thing or two about it. If you own a business and premiums cost you too much....you might want to shop your EB out to a different company.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

There are many reasons for many things.....but I work for the 6th largest Insurance Agency in the world...I know a thing or two about it. If you own a business and premiums cost you too much....you might want to shop your EB out to a different company.

In Healthcare, like I stated, there are many things that drive up the costs.
Here's a few............

---------------------
• Drug companies spend roughly as much on advertising and promotion - $20 billion a year - as they do on research and development of new drugs.

• Overall, American pharmaceutical firms employ one sales person for every physician in the country. They also pick up the tab for doctors to attend seminars promoting their products, which happen to take place in desirable locations, such as Florida and the Caribbean.

• New technology - from diagnostic devices to surgical techniques - accounts for more than half the rise in total healthcare spending in the past three years, says Andrew Tilton, an economist at Goldman Sachs, an investment bank in New York.

• Despite rising costs, profit margins on healthcare products and services, including health insurance, have been going up - rapidly - rather than down. Mr. Tilton says mergers have increased providers' pricing power.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/1215/p21s01-coop.html

[watermock]

I have looked at all the angles.

It's Brian Griese's fault.

[Dr. Broncenstein]

I refer to the people without employment who abuse the ER every time they want a warm meal as dirtbags. The ER has to evaulate and work up every patient, even if its obvious BS. These people come in daily sometimes... owe hundreds of thousands of dollars with no intention to pay a cent. Should you ever have any idea what I see on a daily basis, you would think the same.

Its not the cost of actual lawsuits or payouts that are crashing the system... its doctors forced to order knowingly impractical workups on people who dont pay in order to cover their ass from a potential lawsuit.

[Dr. Broncenstein]

Who's questioning his skills? I'm questioning a doctor calling his patients "dirtbags." Sounds to me like he's in the wrong profession.

Well... you probably wouldn't like about 99% of all physicians. I'm right where I should be... I know it, and those I operate on know it too....

[Dr. Broncenstein]

No shiite! Thank god if I have to run into this kind of doctor I'll be able to hire a lawyer to protect my interests. rofl

Naw, these docs are just all pissed off because nobody considers them "Gods" anymore. Once again, the "entitlement" era raises its ugly head. Everybody thinks they deserve something. Bush thinks the wealthy (all his buddies and the only people he's ever known) deserve to pay none of those "pesky" taxes. "Hey, we were born into this money. Why do you deserve any of it?" They cry. Now the docs want to cut off the wrong leg, or leave the scissors in the patient, or administer the wrong medication that turns you into a vegetable, with complete immunity. "I'm a doctor!" They cry. "I went to medical school. No one can question me!"


If malpractice suits were limted to the catastrophic things you list... there would be no problem. I would never argue that cutting the wrong leg off, leaving a foriegn body in an abdomen, etc., is anything but malpractice. Unfortunately... thats not the real world.

The rest of your point.... if there is one... I don't even know where to start. Where do you get this idea of a god complex? Maybe you should have the first clue about medicine before you say something so idiotic. Have a person who was begging for your help die right in front of you despite doing everything in your power, and you realize quickly that you are only human. Or better... have someone who you knew had no chance of living walk into your clinic six months later to bring you flowers.... I just do my part, and something else takes up the slack.

[Dr. Broncenstein]

Looks like someone's been feeding at the right-wing disinfo trough.

Bush and Cheney continue to dishonestly claim that trial lawyers are to blame for skyrocketing health care costs. Bush said that "frivolous lawsuits...run up the cost of medicine" and that solutions to health care problems were stopped in Congress "because the trial lawyers are powerful in the Senate." Similarly, Cheney said last week that "medical liability reform" is the key to "control the cost of health care."

According to the CBO, lawsuits have little -- if anything -- to do with health care costs.

The Congressional Budget Office says costs from malpractice lawsuits represent less than 2% of the nation's total health care spending, and the tort reform legislation pushed by President Bush would reduce health insurance premiums by less than one-half of one percent.

http://www.misleader.org/daily_misl...df07062004.html


Yeah... its not the actual lawsuit that raises costs... its the extraordinary cost of trying to keep from being sued. But what do I know... its only my profession.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Figures you would defend medical doctors who refer to their patients as "dirtbags".

:thumbsup:

Thank god if I have to run into this kind of doctor I'll be able to hire a lawyer to protect my interests.

:thumbsup:

Is there any reprehensible behavior that you won't defend - as long as it comes from somebody on the Right, eh?

:thumbsup:

Scary how the barefoot, inbred, sister-diddling demographic represented by MHS, et al, roots for the Grandiose Oil Party like a favorite football team. All of Romo's cheap shots, by analogy, are OK because he wears your uniform. These people are poster children for arrested moral development.

[Mile High Shack]

Yeah... its not the actual lawsuit that raises costs... its the extraordinary cost of trying to keep from being sued. But what do I know... its only my profession.

LOL

rep

[Paladin]

A good friend of mine is an ER doc. There is no question that the system is absolutely hammered by the uninsured and the "freebies." However, many of those uninsured "dirtbags" are working full time somewhere, and are at the minimum wage jobs that are somewhat needed. I had heard that the costs of health insurance for a family of four now exceeds the total income of a person working a full-time minimum wage job. It is safe to say that person is not going to have health insurance.

The issues are more complex than that, though, and the issues that the doc is most expressive about is not a major issue. I would submit that if the State Licensing Boards had in fact enforced a mandate that ALL doctors practice decent and correct medicine, the errors would not have been as great, and there would not have been as much malpractice to sue over. And do not tell me that there are no bad docs out there. I have seen them as well, and some of them are drunks, drugies and derelicts just as there are a few Dr. Kildares out there. OR nurses can give a good accounting about some of the "events" that happen in ORs. Some "events" can be horrendous and yet the Medical Committes in the Hospitals are slow or loathe, to correct the offenders. I have seen those issues as well.

It is a subject that would take a large book to fully explore. I can only agree that it will take some form of government intervention to deal with these issues. It may be painful for some to be reminded that Hillary tried to lead a rational discussion about these issues, but Republicans, Drug Companies, Doctors, Lawyers and Insurance Companies did not care for the spotlight on possible options. Further, the HMOs were just getting started. Well, we have now tried Managed Care, and no one really likes that at all except the investors.

Sorry. I guess I spoke too much, huh?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

But what do I know... its only my profession.

Sorry, but you'll have to try that appeal somewhere else as almost everyone in my immediate family is an M.D.

[Dr. Broncenstein]

But what do I know... its only my profession.

Sorry, but you'll have to try that appeal somewhere else as almost everyone in my immediate family is an M.D.

Don't flatter yourself into thinking I was appealing to you.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Don't flatter yourself into thinking I was appealing to you.

I won't (since the CBO basically smacked down your party line spin and rendered any appeal you might make moot.)

[Dr. Broncenstein]

I'm not speaking any party line, because neither speaks for me regarding the healthcare crisis. Its a personal interest issue. One party talks about putting a band aid on an amputated arm... the other wants to cut the throat.

[Dr. Broncenstein]

Im sure your "immediate family full of M.D.'s" loves John Edwards...

[TheDave]

Just a little personal story... My mom has worked as a book keeper for a Newport Beach Plastic Surgeon for almost 20 years now... Since day one Dr. has complained about malpractice insurance, every year the premiums go up and he bitches just a little louder than the year before. This year he is currently NETING around $75,000 per month. I'm sure elective surgery is different than other medical practices, but some how some way i think there is more to the story than just trial lawyers.