Bush Denounces Ads by Outside Groups

[Bronco_Beerslug]

I knew he would when the Swift Boatees started falling apart. And I knew he wouldn't have for as long as they didn't get caught.

-----------------------------
By PETE YOST, Associated Press Writer

CRAWFORD, Texas - President Bush (news - web sites) denounced TV ads by outside groups attacking both John Kerry (news - web sites) and himself on Monday and called for a halt to all such political efforts. "I think they're bad for the system," he said.

In a conference call with reporters arranged by aides to the Democratic presidential candidate, Navy swift boat officers Rich McCann, Jim Russell and Rich Baker said Kerry acted honorably and bravely and was well qualified to be the nation's commander in chief.

"He was the most aggressive officer in charge of swift boats," Baker said.

Additionally, crewmate Del Sandusky said at a news conference in Harrisburg, Pa., that he personally witnessed the battle action for which Kerry received Silver and Bronze stars and two of his three Purple Hearts.

"He deserved every one of his medals," Sandusky, a retired computer repairman who drove Kerry's boat for nearly three months.

"The president ... and (political adviser) Karl Rove have flipped back to the well-worn smear page of their campaign playbook, last used against John McCain in 2000," Kerry's campaign said in a statement Sunday. Voters want to hear about the issues, "not lies and smears, and it's time the president realized that."

A new Kerry campaign ad says Bush smeared McCain four years ago and "Now, he's doing it to John Kerry."

A former Vietnam prisoner of war, McCain lost the South Carolina Republican primary in 2000 after Bush supporters accused him of opposing legislation to help military veterans. McCain never recovered from that primary loss.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...war_politics_20

[Exile_In_SJ]

lol, the ads have already damaged Kerry with the Veteran vote. And it's calling into focus his lies about Cambodia. Bush is a brilliant Politician, and now if Kerry whines about the 527s, Bush can point to the multitude of 527;s that vastly outnumber the rights 527s and cal for all 527s to cease and desist. What's Kerry gonna do? Just call for the rights 527's to stop and not the lefts? That won't look good to independent voters.

Say what you will about GWB, but he's a politician on par with Bill Clintpon and he has one extra benefit. All these so called brilliant people on the left keep underestimating him and he keeps kicking their @sses all over the place. Kerry on the other hand is a bumbling political fool. He changes with the wind and comes off as whiney. His reaction to the Swift Boat Veterans is exactly what they wanted. And now it can't be ignored.

It's all a fight for the undecideds and Kerry looks worse and worse every day

[bendog]

Kerry looks worse on non-substantive issues and character attack ads. Few do this better than JR, who learned from Lee Atwater. The Gop, at this date, is simply better at negative ads. LBJ did a number on Goldwater once upon a time. So, it's not just about 'party."

[plummerrox]

I heard Bush denounce the ads and thought he said it well. Now it will be interesting to see if Mr. Heinz will call off the MoveOn.org people along with his other 527s

[BroncoInferno]

Kerry has already has denounced those ads, plummerrox.

[errand]

Kerry has already has denounced those ads, plummerrox.

Really? Wow, then surely there is a link to the story where he has denounced them.

So what will Kerry do...will he join President Bush and denounce ALL the 527 ads? Or will he just continue to whine about the skull-screwing he's getting by the Swiftboat Vets for Truth ads?

And why does Kerry's version of what happened change all the time?

First he claimed that upon being ambushed his boat was the only one that stayed. And now his camp is claiming he "returned" to pull that guy out of the water. Seems to me that had John's boat stayed put this guy wouldn't have fallen out....in fact I think in his haste to beat feet outta there, this fool fell out of the boat as the boat surged forward.

He also claimed that Nixon sent him into Cambodia......which wouldn't be that big a deal, except that Nixon wasn't even in office when he claims this happened.

I find it odd that the left questioned Bob Dole's Purple Heart in '96...and now get all bent when their guy's medals are questioned. It's OK to claim Bush was AWOL or at least didn't fulfill his military obligation in the Guard, demanding he prove he wasn't AWOL (his released LES's proved he served his complete tour)...but God forbid people question Kerry's accomplishments....despite the fact his whole case for electing him is his 4 months he spent in Vietnam.

If John Kerry wants to dispel the negative talk about his purple hearts, all he has to do is sign that form 180 and release his medical records from Vietnam....surely they will vindicate him. We know he received 3 purple hearts and spent not one day in a hospital, has no disability (other than the mental ones he had since birth evidently), and missed nary a day of work because of his "wounds"

I for one can't wait until the debates.................

[BroncoInferno]

Really? Wow, then surely there is a link to the story where he has denounced them.

Indeed there is. Wow, really?!?!? Really.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2002008491_kerryonaid18.html

Kerry denounces ad that criticizes Bush over service in Guard

By Richard Simon
Los Angeles Times

WASHINGTON — John Kerry took a cue from Republican Sen. John McCain yesterday and denounced a television ad by one of his allies attacking President Bush's service in the Texas Air National Guard.
In the latest twist in a debate about military credentials, Kerry condemned the new ad by the MoveOn political-action committee, even though it was produced in response to an ad questioning Kerry's Vietnam War record.

"This should be a campaign of issues, not insults," Kerry said in a written statement.

The Democratic presidential candidate called the ad "inappropriate" after McCain, of Arizona, a former Vietnam prisoner of war, criticized the MoveOn commercial. The 30-second ad accuses Bush of using family connections to avoid the Vietnam War.

McCain is campaigning for Bush but has come to Kerry's defense against GOP attacks about his military record. He recently lambasted an anti-Kerry ad.

McCain told The Associated Press the anti-Bush ad is "totally inappropriate" and a disservice to members of the National Guard who are "fighting and dying in Iraq."

Kerry said he agreed with McCain that the ad was over the top.

The executive director of MoveOn's political-action committee said his group had no plans to pull the spot, which began running yesterday in three swing states.

A Bush campaign spokesman didn't see Kerry's action as doing the president any favor, saying the Massachusetts senator's condemnation of the anti-Bush ad "reeks of hypocrisy."

During a news conference arranged by the Kerry campaign earlier in the day, some Kerry supporters repeated the central claim in the MoveOn ad: that Bush used his father's influence as a congressman to get him into the Texas Air National Guard.

"John Kerry condemns the ad on one hand and then his campaign's surrogates go out and echo the baseless charges that appear in the ad," said Bush campaign spokesman Steve Schmidt. "It's typical John Kerry: Say one thing, do another."

The MoveOn ad was produced in response to an anti-Kerry ad by a group calling itself Swift Boat Veterans for Truth. The ad featured 13 veterans who served in close proximity to Kerry in Vietnam accusing him of lying about his military service.

The group is heavily funded by Robert Perry, a Texas homebuilder and big GOP political donor.

The group said it stopped running its anti-Kerry commercial last week after exhausting its $500,000 buy.

The 30-second MoveOn ad is running in the same swing states of Ohio, West Virginia and Wisconsin as the anti-Kerry ad did and on some cable TV stations nationally.

Kerry volunteered for service in Vietnam, earning a Silver Star and three Purple Hearts. Bush served stateside in the Texas Air National Guard and was honorably discharged.

Earlier yesterday, a group of Kerry supporters, including retired Army Gen. Wesley Clark and some of Kerry's Navy crewmates, condemned the anti-Kerry ad and called on Bush to disavow it.

The president has not denounced the anti-Kerry ad, but in an interview with "Larry King Live" last week, he called Kerry's military service "noble."

Bush campaign officials said the president has called for the end to all ads by soft-money groups.

Clark, who branded the anti-Kerry ad the "worst form of politics," declared that voters are sick of personal attacks.

[OrangeDoofus]

Flip-flop alert. Here's what Bush said when he signed the McCain-Feingold act two years ago:

"I also have reservations about the constitutionality of the broad ban on issue advertising, which restrains the speech of a wide variety of groups on issues of public import in the months closest to an election. I expect that the courts will resolve these legitimate legal questions as appropriate under the law."

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/03/20020327.html

I guess Bush discovered that issue advertising can be used against him, too.

[Blueflame]

lol, the ads have already damaged Kerry with the Veteran vote. And it's calling into focus his lies about Cambodia. Bush is a brilliant Politician, and now if Kerry whines about the 527s, Bush can point to the multitude of 527;s that vastly outnumber the rights 527s and cal for all 527s to cease and desist. What's Kerry gonna do? Just call for the rights 527's to stop and not the lefts? That won't look good to independent voters.

Say what you will about GWB, but he's a politician on par with Bill Clintpon and he has one extra benefit. All these so called brilliant people on the left keep underestimating him and he keeps kicking their @sses all over the place. Kerry on the other hand is a bumbling political fool. He changes with the wind and comes off as whiney. His reaction to the Swift Boat Veterans is exactly what they wanted. And now it can't be ignored.

It's all a fight for the undecideds and Kerry looks worse and worse every day

There's a lot of time between now and election day... and I seriously doubt that the swiftliars' ad carried much impact with any but the small percentage of "undecided" veterans. And as the lies continue to be exposed... and the connections to the Bush campaign are spotlighted, a backlash against Bush is entirely possible.

As to the 527 ads, here's an idea... how about we call for the ones who are lying to desist? IMO, Bush should have done that long ago.

[errand]

As to the 527 ads, here's an idea... how about we call for the ones who are lying to desist? IMO, Bush should have done that long ago.


...and of course you "know" for certain which ads are lies and which aren't?

250 plus vets come out against Kerry and it's a lie....meanwhile a well-known communist makes a "documentary" and it's the gospel right?

[errand]

...oh, and while we're at it...how does one get 3 purple hearts and spends not one solitary day in a hospital or misses one day of work?

The truth be known, none of us were there, and we may never know the real truth. But if you think what Kerry did upon returning home to the US endeared him with alot of Vets....your nuts.

Now hypothetically speaking.....if the after-action report was filled out by John Kerry would that make a difference as to the validity of the account he gave?

[azbronco]

Kerry has already has denounced those ads, plummerrox.

I call bull****!! Kerry responds to one ad and you charactarize it as being all 527s? What about MOOOve.on numerous attacks. comparisons to Hitler, etc.
Again I call BULL****!

[Blueflame]

...and of course you "know" for certain which ads are lies and which aren't?

250 plus vets come out against Kerry and it's a lie....meanwhile a well-known communist makes a "documentary" and it's the gospel right?

If you've been checking out the media at all lately, the evidence is manifest that the swiftliars' memories are faulty to say the least.

I think ads should automatically be pulled from the public airwaves the moment proof is presented that the ad contains a lie... no matter who makes and sponsors the ad. And that goes for commercial advertising as well as political ads.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

There's a lot of time between now and election day... and I seriously doubt that the swiftliars' ad carried much impact with any but the small percentage of "undecided" veterans.

Vets, others call for resignation of prosecutor in Swift Boat ad

OREGON CITY -- A group of Oregon veterans and Clackamas County residents rallied outside the Clackamas County District Attorney's office Monday afternoon calling for the resignation of a prosecutor who appeared in a controversial television ad criticizing Sen. John Kerry's Vietnam War service.

Alfred French, 58, a senior deputy district attorney, appeared in the recent ad by the Swiftboat Veterans for Truth and said: "I served with John Kerry. . . . He is lying about his record." French also signed a legal affadavit attesting to the claim. But French, in an interview with The Oregonian newspaper last week, said he was relying on the accounts of three other veterans when he said Kerry lied. ..

That acknowledgement fueled Monday's protest, where demonstrators contended French is unfit to serve as a prosecutor after swearing to facts that he never personally witnessed. "It is outrageous that Al French and others would try to smear the military record of John Kerry, a man of courage who put his life on the line to save the lives of others," said Don Stewart, a local veteran who organized the protest. "To lie in a sworn affidavit goes beyond political smear, it is cause for this assistant district attorney to resign, and resign now." ..

http://www.kgw.com/sharedcontent/registration/register.jsp?fw=http://www.kgw.com/news-local/stories/kgw_082304_news_french_protest.a701071e.html

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Documentation of GOP event with Swift Vet smearers

This weekend a flyer a 'PRO USA Rally' by the Swift Boat Vets for Truth was found at Alachua Co Republican & Bush/Cheney Campaign Headquarters. The event they were promoting took place this weekend at Gainesville's Community Plaza.

The Community Plaza is owned by the City of Gainesville and any application to use this venue is public record. This afternoon I received copies of the Use Agreement for this rally.

There are four separate agreements for using the Plaza on August 21, 2004 from 2:00 to 10:00 PM and on August 22, 2004 from 12:00 to 8:00 PM. Four groups made the agreements, one each for 4 different but consecutive time slots.

The groups are:

1. Alachua County Republican Exec Comm
2. Swift Boat Vets
3. Vietnam Vets Against Kerry
4. Veterans for Bush

All four agreements are signed by Dineen Wolfersheim. Four separate checks were written by two different individuals from their personal accounts.

Check out the documents at the post:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x657176

Those both look like the same handwriting too. Bush is soooo busted!!

Another Lying GOPer Covering for Smirk

Dineen Wolfersheim, secretary of the Alachua County Republican Executive Committee, said she helped organized the event as a private citizen and blamed an unidentified "overzealous Republican" for placing the flier in the party's headquarters. She said once local Republican party officials learned of the promotion's placement, they removed it.

In addition, Wolfersheim said she pulled the permit needed for the event and helped others organize and raise money.

REC Chairman Travis Horn said he was aware Wolfersheim was participating in the event, but said she was not doing so as a representative of the party.

"The Swift Boat Vets for Truth, Vietnam Veterans against Kerry, Veterans for Bush have asked us to participate and join them in a political rally at the downtown plaza," according to the e-mail, which is signed Dineen Wolfersheim, Events Coordinator, ACREC Secretary.

http://www.gainesville.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/2

[errand]

John Kerry was awarded 2 silver stars, one bronze star and 3 purple hearts in just under 3 months of combat......did you guys know that based on award vs number of days at war, that makes him America's most decorated military man?

That tops George Washington, Daniel Daly, Audie Murphy, and Alvin C. York....and any other hero I've left off the list.....somehow that seems a bit odd doesn't it?

[errand]

....and Kerry still cannot pull ahead of Bush in the polls.

[Maximus]

The whole swiftboat thing is a joke coming from the Bush campaign. I don't care one way or the other if Kerry got medals. The bottom line is Kerry was in Vietnam... GWB was at home. This alone makes the whole attack on Kerry outrageous.

[OrangeDoofus]

John Kerry was awarded 2 silver stars, one bronze star and 3 purple hearts in just under 3 months of combat......did you guys know that based on award vs number of days at war, that makes him America's most decorated military man?

That tops George Washington, Daniel Daly, Audie Murphy, and Alvin C. York....and any other hero I've left off the list.....somehow that seems a bit odd doesn't it?

One silver star. Four months. Or sixteen months if you count his one-year tour on the USS Gridley.

As for "odd"... what strikes me as odd is how much attention these guys are getting despite the lack of any kind of hard evidence to back up their claims, and despite the fact that for 30 years they've all kept mum about Kerry's alleged lies.

Well, they didn't keep completely quiet for all that time; some of them did say nice things about Kerry as recently as last year.

....and Kerry still cannot pull ahead of Bush in the polls.

I guess you're looking at Gallup's polls. Every other recent poll has Kerry ahead:

http://pollingreport.com/wh2004.htm

[mosca]

I think ads should automatically be pulled from the public airwaves the moment proof is presented that the ad contains a lie... no matter who makes and sponsors the ad. And that goes for commercial advertising as well as political ads.

in a perfect world...
who's to decide what the 'proof' is? even in the swiftvets case, which i admit i haven't been following totally, it seems to boil down to one person's account of the facts vs. the other. i don't know that 'proof' has been demonstrated either way.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

what strikes me as odd is how much attention these guys are getting despite the lack of any kind of hard evidence to back up their claims

Further confirmation that the Scaifes and the Murdocks of the world have basically purchased the debate.

Were this not the case, then we would be seeing 24/7 coverage of the mess in Iraq and hearing about the disaster that is the bush economy (you know--things that are important to most Americans) instead of Swift Boat Vermin for Bush.

The bush crooks have no positive achievements to which they can point, no plan for winning the peace in Iraq, and no plan for America's future.

No wonder their only recourse is to deflect and divert to the Swift Boat Cretins for Bush.

[Blueflame]

in a perfect world...
who's to decide what the 'proof' is? even in the swiftvets case, which i admit i haven't been following totally, it seems to boil down to one person's account of the facts vs. the other. i don't know that 'proof' has been demonstrated either way.

The proof is out there, Mosca.

1) 30 years ago, when John Kerry was (politically) a virtual nobody, a determined Richard Nixon actively attempted to discredit him... using John O'Neill as a handpicked foil. If credible evidence of the claims the swiftliars are now promoting existed, it would have come to light 30 years ago.

2) The debate is not "he said" vs. "he said"... it's the swiftliars' unsubstantiated claims vs. established military records. Has one swiftvet produced an iota of evidence beyond their affidavits regarding events that occurred 30+ years ago?

Why do the established military records require more proof than unsubstantiated... contradictory... and in some cases, thoroughly discredited... allegations?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

If credible evidence of the claims the swiftliars are now promoting existed, it would have come to light 30 years ago.

Good point.

Sadly enough, the bush junta has already demonstrated that the lemmings who support them will believe any lie so long as that lie is repeated often enough by the infotainment lapdogs on Faux/CNN/MSGOP.

http://www.evilgopbastards.com/orwell42004.jpg

[mosca]

The proof is out there, Mosca.
(snip)
2) The debate is not "he said" vs. "he said"... it's the swiftliars' unsubstantiated claims vs. established military records. Has one swiftvet produced an iota of evidence beyond their affidavits regarding events that occurred 30+ years ago?

Why do the established military records require more proof than unsubstantiated... contradictory... and in some cases, thoroughly discredited... allegations?

ok, i've went and read up a little on the issue, particularly concerning kerry recieving his 3rd purple heart. and i agree with you that the military records should not require more proof than simple allegations made by the swiftvets. i'm skeptical of their account of the bay hap river incident, particularly about them not coming under enemy fire, but hey, if they want to say that what really happened was different than the military records of the event, then that's their right. let the public believe what they may.

this leads me back to what i was originally addressing, your statement that "I think ads should automatically be pulled from the public airwaves the moment proof is presented that the ad contains a lie..." granted, the military records contradict what the swiftvets say in this case, but i don't think this constitutes 'proof' that they are lying.

[Blueflame]

ok, i've went and read up a little on the issue, particularly concerning kerry recieving his 3rd purple heart. and i agree with you that the military records should not require more proof than simple allegations made by the swiftvets. i'm skeptical of their account of the bay hap river incident, particularly about them not coming under enemy fire, but hey, if they want to say that what really happened was different than the military records of the event, then that's their right. let the public believe what they may.

this leads me back to what i was originally addressing, your statement that "I think ads should automatically be pulled from the public airwaves the moment proof is presented that the ad contains a lie..." granted, the military records contradict what the swiftvets say in this case, but i don't think this constitutes 'proof' that they are lying.

OK, so where's the proof that they are not lying... I mean, when a new account contradicts Navy records, shouldn't some substantiation be shown? To date, I've seen nothing more than "believe me, this is what happened 35 years ago"...

IMO, when official records are challenged, the burden of proof is on those who wish to revise.

Which swiftliar would you like me to post refutation for first... O'Neill, Hoffman, Thurlow, O'Dell. or other?

[Rohirrim]

Don't discount the other heinous side-effect of the Swiftliars little smear job: They forced other vets to start talking about things they never wanted to think about again. The slime O'Neill said on the Newshour that Kerry chased down a "wounded teenager in a loin cloth" and then "shot the kid in the back." (If that ain't dishonorable slime - I don't know what is) This little statement forced a "real" eyewitness to the event (the commander of the other boat that accompanied Kerry that day) to come forward and talk about things which he said he had never talked to anyone about in 35 years, and never wanted to talk about again. He stood behind Kerry's version of the event straight down the line. Having been a journalist and editor for the three decades since the event (what the courts consider a professional witness) he says his recollection of the event is perfectly clear. Of course, I guess you could just smear him too.

To refer to the Swiftliars as just people with a different opinion and a different story to tell is despicable. You just give the smear campaign the moral cover of freedom of speech which it doesn't deserve. If they wanted to come forward and talk about the thing that is really pissing them off, Kerry's post war, anti-war comments, I say they have every right to do so. But to lie and smear another American's war record - that's slime.

[Rohirrim]

Say what you will about GWB, but he's a politician on par with Bill Clintpon and he has one extra benefit. All these so called brilliant people on the left keep underestimating him and he keeps kicking their @sses all over the place. Kerry on the other hand is a bumbling political fool. He changes with the wind and comes off as whiney. His reaction to the Swift Boat Veterans is exactly what they wanted. And now it can't be ignored.


Try to control yourself Ex - you'll get your panties all messy.

[bendog]

he says his recollection of the event is perfectly clear. Of course, I guess you could just smear him too.

--
And they did just that.

[Rascal]

Until Moveon adds stop and Kerry's WIFE gets out of their organization and supportive role I say keep the adds going.

The hypocrisy from the democrats know no bounds.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

The hypocrisy from the democrats know no bounds.

I don't think so, idiot.

None of the moveon.org ads have attempted to pedal unsubstantiated claims and outright lies about your favorite Oil Puppet.

[watermock]

Hitler.

Next Dimwit.

When it becomes available, maybe you can to to the library and check out "Unfit for Command" while you get "Canadian Bacon" by Michael Moore.

[mosca]

OK, so where's the proof that they are not lying... I mean, when a new account contradicts Navy records, shouldn't some substantiation be shown? To date, I've seen nothing more than "believe me, this is what happened 35 years ago"...

IMO, when official records are challenged, the burden of proof is on those who wish to revise.

Which swiftliar would you like me to post refutation for first... O'Neill, Hoffman, Thurlow, O'Dell. or other?

i agree with you. these guys have no proof as to what they assert. they have the burden of proof, and they have not stepped up to the plate to provide any. but back to your earlier comment about forcing ads off the air which are proven to be lies, which i'm not totally sure you were directing at the swiftvets, i still don't think that the ads should be pulled because the content of the ads have not been proven to be a lie, and possibly cannot, due to how long ago this all happened. eyewitness accounts in a frenzied combat zone are more or less the only narratives of the events in question.

as for refutations, i'll read them with glee. to be honest i don't believe what a lot of them are saying and, as rohirrim mentioned a couple posts ago, its pretty obvious that kerry's anti-war activities upon returning stateside are what's really fueling their fire.