Bob Dole REAL WAR HERO. chastises John Kerry

[Exile_In_SJ]

Dole Questions Kerry's Vietnam Wounds


Aug 22, 6:59 PM (ET)

By PETE YOST


Kerry's Foreign Policy - Read John Kerry's outline of his planned changes to foreign policy.
www.foreignpolicy.com


CRAWFORD, Texas (AP) - Former Republican Sen. Bob Dole suggested Sunday that John Kerry apologize for past testimony before Congress about alleged atrocities during the Vietnam War and joined critics of the Democratic presidential candidate who say he received an early exit from combat for "superficial wounds."

Dole also called on Kerry to release all the records of his service in Vietnam.

Separately, President Bush's re-election campaign continued to deny links to Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, an anti-Kerry group running ads in three states, after the resignation of a campaign volunteer who appeared in the group's new ad.

With Kerry taking a break from campaigning, running mate John Edwards said Bush needs to tell the group to pull its ads, a step the White House and the Bush campaign refuse to take. The White House and Bush's campaign note that Kerry has benefited from more than $62 million worth of similar advertising against the president.


"This is the moment of truth for President Bush," Edwards said in North Carolina. "The American people have to hear directly that these ads need to come off the air." Kerry also fought back in another new ad.

Dole told CNN's "Late Edition" that he warned Kerry months ago about going "too far" and that the Democrat may have himself to blame for the current situation, in which polls show him losing support among veterans.

"One day he's saying that we were shooting civilians, cutting off their ears, cutting off their heads, throwing away his medals or his ribbons," Dole said. "The next day he's standing there, 'I want to be president because I'm a Vietnam veteran.' Maybe he should apologize to all the other 2.5 million veterans who served. He wasn't the only one in Vietnam," said Dole, whose World War II wounds left him without the use of his right arm.

Dole added: "And here's, you know, a good guy, a good friend. I respect his record. But three Purple Hearts and never bled that I know of. I mean, they're all superficial wounds. Three Purple Hearts and you're out."

[BroncoInferno]

Was Dole in Vietnam with Kerry? Didn't think so. Value of his opinion on this matter: completely worthless.

[Exile_In_SJ]

Bob Dole lost the use of his arm for his country. John Kerry got three little owwies for his and then he left Vietnam and proceeded to stab all vietnam vets in the back with UNSUBSTANTIATED accusations and slurs.

[BroncoInferno]

Well, if you want to call having a piece of shrapnel lodge in your leg an "owwie", that's your business. Bottom line is if Dole wasn't there, then his opinion on the matter has no value.

[Blueflame]

If I'm not mistaken, Elizabeth Dole is Bush's North Carolina campaign coordinator... which means Bob's comments are just one more link between the Bush campaign and the swiftliars...

[watermock]

Are you off your rocker?

Now Bob Dole isn't allowed to make a comment? And Hillary Rodham Clinton couldn't hold Elizabeth Dole's jockstrap for actually contributing something to society.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Was Dole in Vietnam with Kerry? Didn't think so. Value of his opinion on this matter: completely worthless.

How disappointing to see Viagra Bob shilling for the likes of Rove and Bunnypants.

Just when I was starting to think Dole was one of the few repukes with just a little tiny smidgeon of integrity left.

BTW, did you notice how Bob was calling for Kerry to release all of his military records when, as a matter of fact, Kerry released all such records months ago? (Which would suggest that Unka Karl is doing the play calling and Bob is merely playing to the attention deficit disorder/wingnut demographic that didn't hear about Kerry's records being released.)

Stick to pedaling the "Vitamin V," Bob!

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Bob Dole lost the use of his arm for his country.

I'm just curious as to what you ever lost for your country, you chickenhawk POS.

What mental midgets like you don't seem to understand is that when you call Kerry's injuries into question, you're not really challenging Kerry--you're impugning the U.S. Navy. And you're impugning all veterans who received these medals.

and proceeded to stab all vietnam vets in the back with UNSUBSTANTIATED accusations and slurs.

Actually, Kerry's claims about war crimes committed by US soldiers weren't "unsubstantiated," jackass--they turned out to be true. I'd ask you if the name "My Lai" meant anything to you, but since you probably weren't even an itch in some truck driver's Wranglers at the time...

You really ought to get your history straight before you embarrass yourself like this.

In any event, a bush sheep like you who, for the purpose of propping up the wartime deserter in the WH, looks the other way re: the torture and rape of prisoners in Iraq by US soldiers has ZERO credibility and no moral authority whatsoever when it comes to judging the veracity of war crimes.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Well, if you want to call having a piece of shrapnel lodge in your leg an "owwie", that's your business.

Only a chickenhawk punk like Exile (and his fellow chickenhawks/role models AWOL Boy, Cheney, and Rove) would ever say something as asinine (and just plain disrespectful to veterans) as this.

[Blueflame]

Are you off your rocker?

Now Bob Dole isn't allowed to make a comment? And Hillary Rodham Clinton couldn't hold Elizabeth Dole's jockstrap for actually contributing something to society.

Bob Dole is most assuredly entitled to form and express his opinion. Exercising that right might be ill-advised, however, at a time when allegations are rife that connections exist between the Bush campaign and the swiftliars.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Yeah, Viagra Bob has a right to voice his opinion.

And the American people have a right to know when Bob gets his facts all mixed up.

[watermock]

Yeah, Viagra Bob has a right to voice his opinion.

And the American people have a right to know when Bob gets his facts all mixed up.

Oh, so the guy can't jack off with his right arm and is 80 and he's "Viagra Bob" now is he? No, his facts are "not all mixed up". First the argument is he didn't have the right to voice his opinion, you and Blue both acted like adolecents, first claiming he was a neocon shrill, then he had his facts messed up. He was giving an opinion you didn't like, so Blue throws a cheap shot and you follow up with another.

How amusing that Dole warned this very Kerry that using his "War Hero" platform wouldn't play that well.

Gee, where was Clinton during Vietnam? Was that an issue that Dole brought up during his Presidental race? Clinton was in Oxford remember? Give it a rest.

Why wasn't Clinton's race for deferrment mentioned by Dole? Because he didn't bring it up, and neither has Bush. It's the people who got sick and tired of Kerry's lies who brought it up.

and another thing. 65 million dollars by Moveon.org with Kerry's WIFE on the panel, and your complaining about Bob Dole explaining that it was stupid of Kerry to plant his face as a war hero when it is pretty damn easy to see anti-war demonstrators, some impostors, raising hell on the Senate Floor?

Unbelievable.

[Rohirrim]

I watched Kerry apologize on 60 Minutes for language "over the top" when he made those assertions. It was a mixture of the times, and his youth. Given Dole's advanced age, perhaps he doesn't remember that. Strange that a man of honor like Dole would climb into Rove's little den of serpents.

[bendog]

An irony. Back in the early 70's when I was getting out of HS, or in the 10th grd and blowing algebra, it dawned on me that I was cannon fodder. Then when I did matriculate out as Nixon was campaigning for his second term and he was winding down the war in time to be re-elected over McGovern who was a war hero and who just wanted the war to end as it inevitably would and as soon as it could, I figured that someday all these old f(cks would be dead and we'd stop the bs .... and amusingly Kerry is getting hammered for having fought and protested by a son of privledge who not only did the guard gig but who prolly didn't even finish that. Meet the new boss, LOL

[watermock]

Oh good grief.

It was a mixture of the times, and his youth.

What are you telling me again? How about his war reports? Were they a mixture of the times and his youth as well?

What a line of crap.

[watermock]

An irony. Back in the early 70's when I was getting out of HS, or in the 10th grd and blowing algebra, it dawned on me that I was cannon fodder.

And? Your were not cannon fodder, you were just stupid.

Then when I did matriculate out as Nixon was campaigning for his second term and he was winding down the war in time to be re-elected over McGovern who was a war hero and who just wanted the war to end as it inevitably would and as soon as it could, I figured that someday all these old f(cks would be dead and we'd stop the bs .... and amusingly Kerry is getting hammered for having fought and protested by a son of privledge who not only did the guard gig but who prolly didn't even finish that. Meet the new boss, LOL

Well if you didn't have run on paragraphs, maybe you would of passed English and made it to a Communty College.

Umm. I supported McGovern to stop the stupid war in GongNam. This is so damn funny. It was a war platform for MacNamara and LBJ. Give me a break. You people don't have a clue.

Just for the record, Kerry thinks he was in Cambodia when Nixon was President. Need I go further?

Now back to your rant:

The rest is just ignorant and pathetic.

[bendog]

my rant? you're killing me mock. I left this place a year ago because attempting to comunicate with you is akin to killing my neighbors crabgrass, and the crabgrass is smarter.

[bendog]

But I respect Dole - though he was bought and paid for by archer daniel midlands. But, it's all about protesting vietnam. That's what has people's panties in a wad over Kerry. Dole can't stand that Kerry is running as a vet after protesting. That and the gop is rightously concerned about BushII's record. Negative attacks are generally aimed at disguising the attackers weakness.

[Rohirrim]

Oh good grief.



What are you telling me again? How about his war reports? Were they a mixture of the times and his youth as well?

What a line of crap.

The funny thing about this whole line of BS is that more vets who were (get this) actual eyewitnesses to the events, are coming out backing Kerry. The Rove/Bell connection is getting outted, and soon, the Bush Babies will have the shiite they launched spread all over their faces.

And then? Mock will say, "I told you all along it was BS."

[watermock]

my rant? you're killing me mock. I left this place a year ago because attempting to comunicate with you is akin to killing my neighbors crabgrass, and the crabgrass is smarter.

First, you don't have to complain about your continence. I communicate fine. The rest is just an ignorant insult. There was a reason you left. Lets go to your next post.

[Rohirrim]

But I respect Dole - though he was bought and paid for by archer daniel midlands. But, it's all about protesting vietnam. That's what has people's panties in a wad over Kerry. Dole can't stand that Kerry is running as a vet after protesting. That and the gop is rightously concerned about BushII's record. Negative attacks are generally aimed at disguising the attackers weakness.

What's really ironic about this is you'd have trouble digging up any historian or military leader who wouldn't admit that Vietnam was a stupid mistake on the part of the U.S. 58,000 Americans died for that mistake - some of them my good friends and comrades. I curse the memory of the leadership (on both sides of the aisle) that sacrificed those lives so cheaply (and we're doing it again - having learned nothing). And yet, now we see an attack on the very Americans who put the pressure on the government to end that stupid war. So, a guy who serves and then protests (as I did too) is a traitor, and the guys who keep their mouths shut, and wave the flag while other Americans are dying for a mistake are the heroes?

I can only say one thing to that: "Watch this swing!"

As far as Dole is concerned - He's looking at the world through WWII eyes. Vietnam blew that innocence away.

[watermock]

But I respect Dole - though he was bought and paid for by archer daniel midlands. But, it's all about protesting vietnam. That's what has people's panties in a wad over Kerry. Dole can't stand that Kerry is running as a vet after protesting. That and the gop is rightously concerned about BushII's record. Negative attacks are generally aimed at disguising the attackers weakness.

Well isn't that special. I doubt you even know what ADM is, but I'm not going to defend them, they do what they do.

No it's not all about protesting Vietnam you dimwit. No, that isn't the issue. The issue is about Kerry flip flopping as anti war, pro war, anti war and anti war. He makes WaffleBoy look like The Strategic Air Command in 1959.

[Rohirrim]

Well isn't that special. I doubt you even know what ADM is, but I'm not going to defend them, they do what they do.

No it's not all about protesting Vietnam you dimwit. No, that isn't the issue. The issue is about Kerry flip flopping as anti war, pro war, anti war and anti war. He makes WaffleBoy look like The Strategic Air Command in 1959.

Geez, Mock, haven't you ever seen "Born in the USA?" I'd be willing to bet there were thousands of guys who went to Nam totally gung ho, and then came back to protest the stupidity of that war. Thousands! You call that a flip flop? I call that experience.

[watermock]

What's really ironic about this is you'd have trouble digging up any historian or military leader who wouldn't admit that Vietnam was a stupid mistake on the part of the U.S. 58,000 Americans died for that mistake - some of them my good friends and comrades.

That's right. It was MacNamara and LBJ that had a nice time on that one testing their failed Mach weapons systems. What a fool you are.


I curse the memory of the leadership (on both sides of the aisle)

what a convenient out when we pushed 58k into a jungle.

that sacrificed those lives so cheaply (and we're doing it again - having learned nothing).

Another lie. We have less than 1000 total dead, I am not minimizing it, but it's reality.

And yet, now we see an attack on the very Americans who put the pressure on the government to end that stupid war.

Exactly WTF are you talking about?


So, I guy who serves and then protests (as I did too) is a traitor, and the guys who keep their mouths shut, and wave the flag while other Americans are dying for a mistake are the heroes?

I can only say one thing to that: "Watch this swing!"

Go say it. whatever. Go buy it wholesale. It's not even an argument.

[Blueflame]

Oh, so the guy can't jack off with his right arm and is 80 and he's "Viagra Bob" now is he? No, his facts are "not all mixed up". First the argument is he didn't have the right to voice his opinion, you and Blue both acted like adolecents, first claiming he was a neocon shrill, then he had his facts messed up. He was giving an opinion you didn't like, so Blue throws a cheap shot and you follow up with another.

How amusing that Dole warned this very Kerry that using his "War Hero" platform wouldn't play that well.

Gee, where was Clinton during Vietnam? Was that an issue that Dole brought up during his Presidental race? Clinton was in Oxford remember? Give it a rest.

Why wasn't Clinton's race for deferrment mentioned by Dole? Because he didn't bring it up, and neither has Bush. It's the people who got sick and tired of Kerry's lies who brought it up.

and another thing. 65 million dollars by Moveon.org with Kerry's WIFE on the panel, and your complaining about Bob Dole explaining that it was stupid of Kerry to plant his face as a war hero when it is pretty damn easy to see anti-war demonstrators, some impostors, raising hell on the Senate Floor?

Unbelievable.


Just like John Madden's name is linked with "tough-actin' Tinactin" almost as much as with his coaching career or even MNF, Bob Dole, as a spokesman for Viagra, will be linked with his "little blue friend"... that's not a cheapshot.

And noting that Bob's wife is active in the Bush campaign is not a cheapshot either; it's a fact...

[bendog]

Well, with Dole, he never made much of a political issue of his "war hero" status - though he wasn't really a war hero so much as a hero of rehabilitation and survival. And the "war protest" thing no doubt pulls a generational cord. Even I found the Dem convention to be as hokey as "a man from Hope," but hey the gop won't be any better. I'm wondering what negro they'll bring (-: Reagan was great on putting that protest stuff "behind" by 1980 and just being affable to everybody. Dole was always a crumugeon, but a loveable one.

[Exile_In_SJ]

Dole is an actual war hero, being wounded severely so that it affects the rest of his life.

Kerry's wounds required no hospitalization at all, hence were minor wounds. Kerry put in for his purple hearts himself.

If Dole wants to question Kerrys conduct, he has every right to. Even ardent Kerry supporters have to admit to the weakness in his 3 purple hearts. Yes he got them, but he really didn't deserve them. Not in the same way Bob Dole deserved his.

[Exile_In_SJ]

Now you guys can attack Bob Dole all you want, it's your right, war hero must apply double here, since Dole was a REAL war hero, not a self serving future candidate who brought a movie camera along to recreate his actions in Viet Nam.

Kerry wanted to become a politician in the future and everything he did was geared to that.

Bob Dole served his country in the biggest war and didnt go around being a self-promoter.

Dole is what a hero should be, Kerry is what a weak one is. Self-promoting and unwilling to release all his records.

And remember, Kerry invited all this scrutiny.

[bendog]

meaning no disrespect for Dole, his war experience was distinct from someone who through some heroic act saves his comrades, storms the enemy lines, captures 100 "huns" singlehandly (sgt York), etc. He suffered a horrible wound that would have killed most, rehabilitated in extreme pain and had a useful life. It was an accidetally self-inflicted wound, as I recall. That's the irony of the attack on Kerry that "the mine" might have been a handgrenade he inadvertently exploded. If one is logically consistent, there is a pattern of BushII doing manchurian candidate attacks on opponents with veteran credentials better than his own.

But, again, seeing Kerry at the convention .... it was overkill. But, he's really got a problem strategically. In many ways his campaign is "I saw what happened when politicans lie about a war, and I say 'never again.'" So, he's got an image problem of .. is he some pinko protestor or JFKII? In reality, he's neither and never was. But BushII wants to exploit that.

[bendog]

SJ, as I understand it, Kerry only refuses to release his medical records ... and BushII isn't doing that either. Harrison and Jackson and Teddy Roosevelt .... and every republican from Grant to McKinley inflated their war record. Some said JFK did too. Poppy? sure. And BushII did as well with that carrier landing.

I would agree that Dole didn't really tread on his wound for pol gain.

[Rohirrim]

Now you guys can attack Bob Dole all you want, it's your right, war hero must apply double here, since Dole was a REAL war hero, not a self serving future candidate who brought a movie camera along to recreate his actions in Viet Nam.

Kerry wanted to become a politician in the future and everything he did was geared to that.

Bob Dole served his country in the biggest war and didnt go around being a self-promoter.

Dole is what a hero should be, Kerry is what a weak one is. Self-promoting and unwilling to release all his records.

And remember, Kerry invited all this scrutiny.

All that ever comes out of you is hate. Do you know how many guys took movie cameras with them to Vietnam, genius? In my unit alone there must have been a dozen. You know how many kept diaries? Just about all of them. Do you know what a Purple Heart is? Do you know what the requirements are? It's an accomadation, not a medal - more like a merit badge. Here's another one for you, genius. Kerry couldn't put in for his own Purple Heart. You know why? The requirements are that only a certified medical doctor can put you in for one. Even your commanding officer can't do it.

Here's the truth: Kerry volunteered to serve after his senior year at Yale. He served one tour of duty (including Vietnam duty) on a frigate and then volunteered for Swift boats. He has released all of his military records, but not his personal records - which are nobody's business.

Bush sealed his records as Texas governor. Nobody can touch them. Records regarding his so-called service have mysteriously disappeared, or been conveniently destroyed. No one has come forward to claim rewards by simply saying, "I saw him in Alabama" or "I served with him in Alabama."

Here's what Bush did: Thirteen days before his deferment was up (a deferment so he could "earn" Cs at Yale) and an automatic draft notice would be sent, Bush somehow managed to jump a list of 100 to 150 other Americans and get a cushie, non-combat spot in the Texas ANG. Could you imagine yourself trying to wrangle your way into a pilot's spot in thirteen days - even now? Good luck.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Dole is an actual war hero, being wounded severely so that it affects the rest of his life.

Kerry's wounds required no hospitalization at all, hence were minor wounds. Kerry put in for his purple hearts himself.

If Dole wants to question Kerrys conduct, he has every right to. Even ardent Kerry supporters have to admit to the weakness in his 3 purple hearts. Yes he got them, but he really didn't deserve them. Not in the same way Bob Dole deserved his.
Were you ever in Country? Just wondering because you seem to post like you know what was going on over there.

[Exile_In_SJ]

From Betsys Blog

Jim Geraghty notes some great quotes from Bob Dole's appearance on Wolf Blitzer's show yesterday. As Geraghty notes, there is something wonderfully refreshing about a politician who has nothing left to lose speaking his mind. Kind of like Zell Miller. Here's Bob.
I think this [the new Swift Boat ad about Kerry's 1971 testimony] can hurt Kerry more than all the medal controversy... And I think he's — I said months ago, "John, don't go too far." And I think he's got himself into this wicket now where he can't extricate himself because not every one of these people can be Republican liars. There's got to be some truth to the charges.
But this is on tape. This is on television. This is before the Senate committee...

I remember in '96, I was the veteran in the race. Bill Clinton avoided the draft. And we didn't have all this trouble over my service versus his non-service. There wasn't much written about it. People accepted the fact that I had a record.

Now there's all the talk about Bush's National Guard service. Has he told the truth? Has he released the records? And one way, I think, for John Kerry, who I consider to be a friend, is to maybe apologize to all these people for something he may have said at a very early age, and let us have those records he's given to the author...

You know, I would like to talk about — you know, I think they ought to talk about the record. But Senator Kerry's record in the Senate, I served with him for 14 years, I can't remember a single piece of legislation that bore his name. And maybe he did a lot of good work, but it wasn't very obvious.

And as far as I know, he's never spent one day in the hospital. I don't think he draws any disability pay. He doesn't have any disability. And boasting about three Purple Hearts when you think of some of the people who really got shot up in Vietnam...

BLITZER: And speaking about people getting shot up in Vietnam, the Democrats, at least some Democrats, are now going after the president and the vice president for avoiding service in Vietnam. Senator Tom Harkin of Iowa, Democrat...

DOLE: He's not a very good one to complain because he was hiding out in Japan, claiming he was a Vietnam veteran.

BLITZER: Well, that's another matter.

DOLE: Yes, I know it is.


Damn, I almost regret not voting for Bob Dole.. He's right on about Kerry and he sure slammed that jack@ss Harkin.... Who LIED about his Vietnam service. too funny.

[Exile_In_SJ]

no wonder Kerry is losing the Veteran Vote, and it's gettig worse...



Again from betsys blog

Did the members of the VFW who listened to Kerry last week know he'd once said this?
Would the VFW consider it "faith keeping" to learn that Mr. Kerry, in his epilogue to the "New Soldier," wrote that "we will not quickly join those who march on Veteran's Day waving small flags, calling to memory those thousands of lives who died for the 'greater glory of the United States.'We will not accept the rhetoric.We will not readily join the American Legion and the Veterans of Foreign Wars ? we will demand relevancy such as other organizations have recently been able to provide ? we will not uphold the traditions which decorously memorialize that which is base and grim." ("Unfit For Command," p. 148)


wow, Kerry sure despise the american veteran. No wonder he's slipping badly. I guess it pays to actually watch what you say.

[bendog]

you doubt vietnam vets have more ambivilant feelings on memorial day to their costs than did WWII vets? I think even Dole mentioned that at the big WWII nostalgia thing about a year ago.

There are two things happening demographically. I'd think most viet vets didn't like protesters and arent' too happy about winter soldier testimony. However, I'd think they'd be wary of trumpted up wars .... but then a high statistical % tended to be poor southerners, who will vote - if they vote - on race and class. And, as viet vets tended to have higher %'s than the norm of substance problems and metal health, I'd think they'd have attritted out of the electorate (sarcasm). But the VAST majority of us who were statistically eligible for the draft either were not drafted or found ways to land gigs in the navy or AF if not outright natl guard, and these people (me too) really have no guage to judge what Kerry testified about. We are a nation largely of chickenhawks. Me too.

[OrangeDoofus]

Kerry couldn't put in for his own Purple Heart. You know why? The requirements are that only a certified medical doctor can put you in for one. Even your commanding officer can't do it.

Wow. That puts another whole weird twist in the SBVT claims. Dr. Louis Letson says "I know John Kerry is lying about his first Purple Heart because I treated him for that injury." Of course, his name doesn't appear on the medical records. But even supposing it was Letson who treated Kerry, how can he criticize Kerry's Purple Heart if he was the one who would have had to put him in for it?

[OrangeDoofus]

If Dole wants to question Kerrys conduct, he has every right to. Even ardent Kerry supporters have to admit to the weakness in his 3 purple hearts. Yes he got them, but he really didn't deserve them. Not in the same way Bob Dole deserved his.

Here's Dole's account of his first Purple Heart: "As we approached the enemy, there was a brief exchange of gunfire. I took a grenade in hand, pulled the pin, and tossed it in the direction of the farmhouse. It wasn't a very good pitch (remember, I was used to catching passes, not throwing them). In the darkness, the grenade must have struck a tree and bounced off. It exploded nearby, sending a sliver of metal into my leg--the sort of injury the Army patched up with Mercurochrome and a Purple Heart."

So by Dole's own admission, his first Purple Heart was for a superficial, self-inflicted wound. You could criticize that just as easily as you could criticize any of Kerry's. You'd be wrong in both cases, of course, but you could do one just as easily as the other.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Gee, where was Clinton during Vietnam?

Unlike Deserter Boy, Clinton left himself exposed to the draft.

Then Tricky Dick instated the draft lottery, and Clinton's number never came up.

Clinton was in Oxford remember?

Clinton went to Oxford on the prestigious Rhodes Scholarship--a scholarship he worked hard to earn.

Resident Gigglekill got into the ANG, Yale, and Harvard (and everything else in his life) because of daddy's influence and connections.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Kerry couldn't put in for his own Purple Heart. You know why? The requirements are that only a certified medical doctor can put you in for one. Even your commanding officer can't do it.

Which is why chickenhawk jackasses like Exile keep embarrassing themselves everytime they reach for their keyboards.

Nothing more disgusting and disrespectful than some punk who wasn't even in combat judging the veterans who were actually there.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Bush sealed his records as Texas governor. Nobody can touch them. Records regarding his so-called service have mysteriously disappeared, or been conveniently destroyed. No one has come forward to claim rewards by simply saying, "I saw him in Alabama" or "I served with him in Alabama."

Here's what Bush did: Thirteen days before his deferment was up (a deferment so he could "earn" Cs at Yale) and an automatic draft notice would be sent, Bush somehow managed to jump a list of 100 to 150 other Americans and get a cushie, non-combat spot in the Texas ANG. Could you imagine yourself trying to wrangle your way into a pilot's spot in thirteen days - even now? Good luck.

And this unelected fraud and his shills have the audacity to impugn Kerry's military record?

Unbelievable!

[football idiot]

at least Bush is not a confessed war criminal.

oh yeah. Kerry was just being young&excited when he maligned the reputation of a million vietnam soldiers, and confessed to war crimes himself...

[Rascal]

I watched Kerry apologize on 60 Minutes for language "over the top" when he made those assertions. It was a mixture of the times, and his youth. Given Dole's advanced age, perhaps he doesn't remember that. Strange that a man of honor like Dole would climb into Rove's little den of serpents.

He said he might of used different language but not have changed his message. That is not an apology.

[enjolras]

Kerry's wounds required no hospitalization at all, hence were minor wounds. Kerry put in for his purple hearts himself.

So I guess the kids coming back from Iraq who didn't have a body part blown off aren't war hero's? Tell that to their families (and in my case) friends asshole. Oh and I've been around the military most of my life... I've never heard of a single case of someone putting in for their own commendation, that ALWAYS happens higher up the chain of command. So please, provide me some substantation that Kerry wrote his own letters of commendation for those medals.

f Dole wants to question Kerrys conduct, he has every right to. Even ardent Kerry supporters have to admit to the weakness in his 3 purple hearts. Yes he got them, but he really didn't deserve them. Not in the same way Bob Dole deserved his.

Kerry was over there and faced people trying to kill him. Those facts are nearly undisputed.. while Doles injuries where CERTAINLY more severe, it doesn't make Kerry's sacrifice or contribution any less (or more) important. I respect both guys for sacking up and fighting for their country. They deserve our respect.. plain and simple.

I have no problem questioning Kerry's conduct when he got back from the war, but to question for one second that he didn't do anything of value.. or didn't deserve anything he got shows so much disrepect to soldiers everwhere that it just pisses me off to no end. Kerry and Dole both fought and both did their country proud.

It's funny.. I bet your one of those guys who kept telling me that by opposing the war in Iraq I wasn't 'supporting our troops'.

[OrangeDoofus]

So I guess the kids coming back from Iraq who didn't have a body part blown off aren't war hero's?

You know what's really sad about this whole thing? Twenty or thirty years from now some of those kids are going to run for public office, and they're going to get exactly the same kind of smears used against them.

[Rohirrim]

at least Bush is not a confessed war criminal.

oh yeah. Kerry was just being young&excited when he maligned the reputation of a million vietnam soldiers, and confessed to war crimes himself...

The one thing that worries me about all of this is that Kerry's Senate testimony will start getting examined. I guarantee you, this country does not want to go there. If you think Abu Ghraib was ugly, wait till we start publicly parsing the military records and testimony of veterans of Vietnam. This is one of the reasons I'm so pissed at the Swiftliars - they're forcing guys to come forward who just don't want to relive that shiite. Do think My Lai was it? Really? Are you that naive?

You don't want to go there. Neither does this country.

As far as the war crimes go, many of the policies implemented by the leadership in Vietnam were contrary to the Geneva Convention - and the leadership was the target of Kerry's protest - not the soldiers. Free Fire Zones are a violation of the Geneva Convention, and hence, a war crime.

You don't want to go there.

[watermock]

We are going there because Kerry opened the door.

[Rohirrim]

We are going there because Kerry opened the door.

He hasn't opened the door on the Senate testimony, the Swiftliars are doing that - and it's not going to be ugly for Kerry alone. It's going to get ugly for the whole country.

Maybe it's time the American people face the facts of what they ask their soldiers to do for them - and then shut up when they come home.

[bendog]

jmo but it's sort of about the human civilian cost. It's one thing about the human cost to the American guy or gal who chases down some vietnamese or iraqi with an rpg and shoots them in the back. I'd think I'd do the same thing, unless I just ran too, but there's got to be some human baggage from doing that. Kerry can, and should, talk about that. And NO, bushII isn't spending what we should on Vets care, and yeah, every kid of a guardsman or reserve who's stuck in some hellhole this Christman outta get an extra gift. And yeah, Kerry has a record of standing up for vets care.

But where Kerry gets in trouble politically is with the human civilian cost. Iraq for example. Most reports I've seen is taht thousands, perhaps ten thousand, civilians died during the invasion and initial occupation. BushII folks say, "but saddam would have killed more." And they're right. But was invasion the only road open to us, which is Kerry's pt. But, that's an impossible question to ask, because the moral implications are very distasteful.

With Vietnam it's even worse. Because some of the old vets will fight to the grave saying the cause was just based upon how evil the N. Vietnamese were in the aftermath of the war. And for guys like ONiell, whose been a paid gop anti-kerry operative since the early 70's, justifying the cost is necessary unless they want to accept that what Kerry (and Kerrey) say were atrocities is the truth. They'll fight that to the death.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

So I guess the kids coming back from Iraq who didn't have a body part blown off aren't war heroes? Tell that to their families (and in my case) friends asshole.

Bingo!

The idea of bottom-feeders like Exile and his fellow Hitler Youth using our troops' service as a political poker chip is absolutely repugnant.