Military Files Uphold Kerry's War Account

[Bronco_Beerslug]

I assume that everyone knows that not one of these people that have made these claims served with Kerry on his boat.

---------------------------------------------
Military files uphold Kerry's war account
Records on Vietnam service cast doubt on charges raised by some of his accusers.
By JOSEPH L. GALLOWAY
Knight Ridder Newspapers
WASHINGTON - Military records back John Kerry's account of his service in Vietnam and have backed at least two of his accusers into a corner.
http://www.capecodonline.com/cctimes/militaryfiles21.htm


Navy Commander, Journalist, Backs Kerry on Vietnam
8 minutes ago

By Carol Giacomo

PITTSBURGH (Reuters) - An American journalist who commanded a boat alongside John Kerry (news - web sites) in Vietnam broke a 35-year silence on Saturday and defended the Democratic presidential candidate against Republican critics of his military service.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20040821/pl_nm/campaign_kerry_dc&cid=615&ncid=2043

[Southern Bronco]

Rood didn't "serve(d) with Kerry on his boat" yet his story is credible because he backs Kerry. Hypocrisy? Yep. Funny that the Cape Cod Times doesn't show the files, just a description of what's in them. I'm not denying what's in the files. I just haven't seen them yet. And after action reports written by an admitted liar about "Christmas in Cambodia" already suffer a credibilty problem. But I'm sure that Kerry inflating his war record wil be "seared-- seared" into the voters' minds.

For more "searing" examples of Kerry speeches, go here: http://patriotparadox.mu.nu/archives/041654.php

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Rood didn't "serve(d) with Kerry on his boat" yet his story is credible because he backs Kerry. Hypocrisy? Yep. Funny that the Cape Cod Times doesn't show the files, just a description of what's in them. I'm not denying what's in the files. I just haven't seen them yet. And after action reports written by an admitted liar about "Christmas in Cambodia" already suffer a credibilty problem. But I'm sure that Kerry inflating his war record wil be "seared-- seared" into the voters' minds.

For more "searing" examples of Kerry speeches, go here: http://patriotparadox.mu.nu/archives/041654.php
And I'm sure Karl Rove's attempt at another John McCain smear, lies campaign conspiracy will also be "seared-- seared" into voters minds.

And you apparently missed this part of the article....

"There were three swift boats on the river that day in Vietnam more than 35 years ago -- three officers and 15 crew members. Only two of those officers remain to talk about what happened on February 28, 1969," he wrote in a story that appeared on the newspaper's Web site on Saturday.

"One is John Kerry, the Democratic presidential candidate who won a Silver Star for what happened on that date. I am the other."

[Southern Bronco]

And you apparently missed this part of the article....

"There were three swift boats on the river that day in Vietnam more than 35 years ago -- three officers and 15 crew members. Only two of those officers remain to talk about what happened on February 28, 1969," he wrote in a story that appeared on the newspaper's Web site on Saturday.


And yet there were several crewmen also there that day. I wonder what they think? Or does the word of an officer mean more to you than that of a lowly enlisted man? Is this more hypocrisy? Elitism? Believing what you want to believe and disregarding the rest? Seems like it to me.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

And yet there were several crewmen also there that day. I wonder what they think? Or does the word of an officer mean more to you than that of a lowly enlisted man? Is this more hypocrisy? Elitism? Believing what you want to believe and disregarding the rest? Seems like it to me.
I was one of those "lowly enlisted men" at one time. Did any of them that were there that day claim otherwise? I'm more interested in what people have to say that were actually there not who happened to be in country at the same time as Kerry.

[Blueflame]

Oregon swiftliar Al French admits his criticism of Kerry is based on hearsay; not personal experiences.

http://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/front_page/109300303292321.xml

[watermock]

When I die, I hope I can write my own obituary. Who will dare to challenge me?

Unless I rise from the dead like Kerry.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

From the link provided by Blueflame.........
-----------------------------------
And this guy is a prosecuter?

-------------------------------------------
Oregon prosecutor accuses Kerry in ad
Friday, August 20, 2004
NOELLE CROMBIE
A Clackamas County prosecutor and decorated Vietnam veteran who appears in an ad attacking Democratic presidential contender John F. Kerry's war record said he did not witness the events in question and is relying on the accounts of his friends who served with the senator.

The 60-second ad, which aired for seven days this month in Ohio, West Virginia and Wisconsin, features 13 Vietnam veterans, including Alfred French, 58, a senior deputy district attorney in Clackamas County.

In the ad, French says: "I served with John Kerry. . . . He is lying about his record." The ad was paid for by Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, a group of 300 Vietnam veterans who served in Swift boats and say Kerry has lied about his war record and disgraced his fellow veterans by publicly opposing the conflict upon his return home. The group said the ad will be aired again, though it has not decided where it will be shown.

French, in an interview Thursday, said Kerry lied about the circumstances that led to one of his Purple Hearts and a Bronze Star. Kerry received a Bronze Star, a Silver Star and three Purple Hearts commanding a Swift boat in Vietnam.

French said he is relying on the accounts of three other veterans who were friends of his at the time. A fourth veteran with whom French was acquainted corroborated their accounts.

"I was not a witness to these events but my friends were," said French, who was awarded two Bronze Stars during the war. "I believe these people. These are people I served with."

One of the men is Larry Thurlow, a leader of the veterans group and one of Kerry's most vocal critics. Thurlow, who served alongside Kerry, has disputed Kerry's claim that the senator's boat was under fire in March 1969 when he pulled Lt. Jim Rassmann out of the water.

But according to Thurlow's military records, obtained this week by The Washington Post, the five-boat flotilla was under enemy fire that day.
http://www.oregonlive.com/news/oreg...00303292321.xml

[Southern Bronco]

Wow, you guys are really reaching. Maybe you need to wonder why so many people who served with Kerry don't like him and are, as you imply, lying about him. Do you think it's ALL rep/dem split? I don't.

For example, you should hear what people who served with Kerry ON the Gridley say. His Executive Officer thought Kerry was a good Navy man, but like most veterans of the time, thinks that: "his anti-war activities while our troops were still fighting, dying and being tortured in filthy Vietnam prisons were despicable."

Despicable. Not a very glowing after-action report on Kerry by his "band of brothers".
http://home.nycap.rr.com/pwcarter/the%20kerry%20page.html

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Wow, you guys are really reaching. Maybe you need to wonder why so many people who served with Kerry don't like him and are, as you imply, lying about him. Do you think it's ALL rep/dem split? I don't.

For example, you should hear what people who served with Kerry ON the Gridley say. His Executive Officer thought Kerry was a good Navy man, but like most veterans of the time, thinks that:

Despicable. Not a very glowing after-action report on Kerry by his "band of brothers".
http://home.nycap.rr.com/pwcarter/the%20kerry%20page.html
Reaching? What are you talking about?
This seems typical from the some on right though.
Since I grew up in that era I know a little about those times also.

Just like the author of that article has no doubt about his views I have no doubt about mine.....
This from a post in another forum sums up my feelings.....

"Forget that the principles say the war was un-winnable. Just look at the way we bombed the snot out of that little country. How we ran up incredible body counts. When an entire people say no, you can't win without killing all or most of them. Since we are not likely to ever do that to a country, nor should we, we could not win. Therefore, people like Kerry saved lives by bring it to the inevitable end as fast as possible." Posted by JD3

[Southern Bronco]

Reaching? What are you talking about?

I'm talking about you being ALL OVER THE MAP in your efforts to paint those who served with Kerry as liars if they don't think the guy is honest and honorable enough to serve as president. Typical of some left-wingers.

So now your point is that Kerry helped bring a quicker end to the war? Interesting. I guess that in this case the ends justified the means. Does that mean that ANY means may be justified? Even if they lead to MORE Americans killed? Many historians (and General Bui Tin of the NVA) agree that the war protestors helped extend the war by providing cover for the Communists to keep the war going.

Visits to Hanoi by people like Jane Fonda, and former Attorney General Ramsey Clark and ministers gave us confidence that we should hold on in the face of battlefield reverses.

http://www.grunt.com/scuttlebutt/corps-stories/vietnam/north.asp

And Kerry was still in the Naval Reserves when he illegally met with representatives of North Viet Nam in Paris. But I guess that's better than manning an anti-aircraft gun in Hanoi for a photo-op. http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2004/03/25/kerry_spoke_of_meeting_negotiators_on_vietnam/

And since you quoted someone who agrees with you, I'll do the same, via Instapundit:

While I'm glad the vets are finally getting their chance to be heard, it's not the Vietnam stories that bother me. It's Kerry's reaction to the books and ads. This is showing his character today, not in the past, and it's not pretty.

For almost a year there have been attack ads against Bush. Bush displayed much more character by not demanding that the books and movies and ads that have been attacking him be banned the way Kerry is trying to do. Bush stood up for the rights of even those who opposed him and lied about him.

Kerry tries to silence any opposition, in much the same way as portrayed in Fahrenheit 451 (the original book). That is frightening!

And to make matters worse, the mainstream media is in collusion with him.

And that, in a nutshell, adds to the idea that Kerry is "Unfit for Command".

[Bronco_Beerslug]

I'm talking about you being ALL OVER THE MAP in your efforts to paint those who served with Kerry as liars if they don't think the guy is honest and honorable enough to serve as president. Typical of some left-wingers.".
I'm still where I was. Did you miss it again about the part of who actually was on the river on the day of question?

So now your point is that Kerry helped bring a quicker end to the war? Interesting. I guess that in this case the ends justified the means. Does that mean that ANY means may be justified? Even if they lead to MORE Americans killed? Many historians (and General Bui Tin of the NVA) agree that the war protestors helped extend the war by providing cover for the Communists to keep the war going.".
I addressed a point brought up in the article you posted. Otherwise the author admits Kerry did indeed serve with honor.
In case you haven't realized it yet the whole point for the swiftboat liars is that Kerry participated in anti-war protests after he got back which they think is wrong.


And that, in a nutshell, adds to the idea that Kerry is "Unfit for Command".
As far as you can tell.

[HIX]

If you guys want I can type up a report that shows that a buddy and I saved three small children from a house fire. Don't ask my buddy, he probably remembers it as us walking in and putting in a new battery in the smoke detector. But hey, I wrote it up so it is true, right?

I get so tired of the childish squabbling. Kerry wrote up the after action reports. Did he lie? I dunno. Did the other boats occupants lie? Who knows. I find it strange that none of the boats have any damage other than the one that hit the mine. Now I am not a charlie sitting on the banks of the river but if the "official" account is correct and John Kerry had to navigate the 5000 yards back to save his crewmember who was near the other boats who remained on the scene is it my opinion that if I were directing a "hailstorm" of fire at the boats being the hardened soldier that is fighting for my country I would at least be able to hit one boat with at least one bullet.

Assuming that Kerry's account is correct, can anyone care to tell me how they managed to not get hit by one bullet?

[Blueflame]

Wow, you guys are really reaching. Maybe you need to wonder why so many people who served with Kerry don't like him and are, as you imply, lying about him. Do you think it's ALL rep/dem split? I don't.

For example, you should hear what people who served with Kerry ON the Gridley say. His Executive Officer thought Kerry was a good Navy man, but like most veterans of the time, thinks that:

Despicable. Not a very glowing after-action report on Kerry by his "band of brothers".
http://home.nycap.rr.com/pwcarter/the%20kerry%20page.html

If their objection is to Kerry's actions after the war, then that's what they should be attacking, Southern... they should be saying that because he actively tried to end the war, they do not think he is fit to be president. That's not what they're doing, though.

I'm talking about you being ALL OVER THE MAP in your efforts to paint those who served with Kerry as liars if they don't think the guy is honest and honorable enough to serve as president. Typical of some left-wingers.".

How can one characterize Mr. French as anything but a liar when he signs an affidavit swearing that he has personal knowledge of events that he now admits is based solely on hearsay?

So now your point is that Kerry helped bring a quicker end to the war? Interesting. I guess that in this case the ends justified the means. Does that mean that ANY means may be justified? Even if they lead to MORE Americans killed? Many historians (and General Bui Tin of the NVA) agree that the war protestors helped extend the war by providing cover for the Communists to keep the war going.".

The opinions of "many historians" and a general do not necessarily elevate it to fact, Southern. Are you saying that even though Kerry's experiences in Vietnam convinced him that the war was unwinnable, he should have done nothing... and said nothing... about his convictions? More American soldiers were dying every day in that war, and you blast him for trying to end our involvement in it and bring those soldiers home? Wow.

As far as Kerry's objections to the swiftvet book and ads, the group was organized for the sole purpose of discrediting him... and appears to be lying through their teeth. Numerous recent articles have effectively shredded their credibility. I daresay few people would enjoy having total fabrications about them aired nationwide. If the anti-Bush ads have been shown to be lies, I'd be interested in seeing the discreditation.
The difference? The swiftvets, clearly, are lying.

[Blueflame]

If you guys want I can type up a report that shows that a buddy and I saved three small children from a house fire. Don't ask my buddy, he probably remembers it as us walking in and putting in a new battery in the smoke detector. But hey, I wrote it up so it is true, right?

I get so tired of the childish squabbling. Kerry wrote up the after action reports. Did he lie? I dunno. Did the other boats occupants lie? Who knows. I find it strange that none of the boats have any damage other than the one that hit the mine. Now I am not a charlie sitting on the banks of the river but if the "official" account is correct and John Kerry had to navigate the 5000 yards back to save his crewmember who was near the other boats who remained on the scene is it my opinion that if I were directing a "hailstorm" of fire at the boats being the hardened soldier that is fighting for my country I would at least be able to hit one boat with at least one bullet.

Assuming that Kerry's account is correct, can anyone care to tell me how they managed to not get hit by one bullet?

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/editorials/articles/2004/08/22/big_lies_for_bush/

[OrangeDoofus]

If you guys want I can type up a report that shows that a buddy and I saved three small children from a house fire. Don't ask my buddy, he probably remembers it as us walking in and putting in a new battery in the smoke detector. But hey, I wrote it up so it is true, right?

I get so tired of the childish squabbling. Kerry wrote up the after action reports. Did he lie? I dunno. Did the other boats occupants lie? Who knows. I find it strange that none of the boats have any damage other than the one that hit the mine. Now I am not a charlie sitting on the banks of the river but if the "official" account is correct and John Kerry had to navigate the 5000 yards back to save his crewmember who was near the other boats who remained on the scene is it my opinion that if I were directing a "hailstorm" of fire at the boats being the hardened soldier that is fighting for my country I would at least be able to hit one boat with at least one bullet.

Assuming that Kerry's account is correct, can anyone care to tell me how they managed to not get hit by one bullet?

On what basis do you say Kerry is the author of the after-action report? I'm looking at it right now and I don't see any indication as to who wrote it. Nor, for that matter, do I see any statement saying that the boats weren't damaged.

On the other hand, Larry Thurlow's Bronze Star citation says that "... all units began receiving enemy small arms and automatic weapons fire from the river banks.... Despite enemy bullets flying about him, [Thurlow] leaped aboard the damaged boat and began rendering first aid and assessing damage..." Then later "... while still under fire, with complete disregard for his personal safety, returned aboard the damaged Inshore Patrol Craft... "His actions and courage in the face of enemy fire were instrumental in the medical evacuation of the wounded..." That's signed by Admiral Zumwalt. So there's another piece of documentary evidence that "all units" came under fire.

Of course, now Thurlow says that there was no enemy fire that day, and thus Kerry's Bronze Star is invalid. So how does he explain his own? Has he offered to give it back?

Who else has come forward to say that Kerry didn't deserve the decorations he got in the war? In addition to Thurlow...

We've got Roy Hoffman, who said in 2003 that "I am not going to say anything negative about him — he's a good man." but who now says that "John Kerry has not been honest."
Then there's Adrian Lonsdale, who in 1996 said Kerry was "among the finest of those Swift boat drivers" but who now says that he "lacks the capacity to lead."
George Elliot said in 1996 that "the fact that he chased an armed enemy down is something not to be looked down upon, but it was an act of courage." Now he's appearing in the commercial saying "John Kerry has not been honest about what happened in Vietnam."
And then of course we have Dr. Louis Letson who says "I know John Kerry is lying about his first Purple Heart because I treated him for that injury" even though Letson's name doesn't appear anywhere on Kerry's medical records.


So, not only is there no documentary to back up anything these guys are saying, a lot of them are flatly contradicting things they've said earlier.

Frankly, I'm wondering why anyone's bothered to pay these guys any attention in the first place.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

http://www.bartcop.com/3p-trump-2d.jpg

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Kerry video:

McCain to Bush, "You Should be Ashamed"

http://www.johnkerry.com/video/console.php?video=082104_old_tricks#082104_old_tri cks

Hard-hitting ad makes Bush out for what he is...
http://www.bartcop.com/idiot-dumb.jpg

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

NY Times draws Swift Boat Weasel Map

http://graphics7.nytimes.com/images/2004/08/19/politics/campaign/20040820swift_graph.gif

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Subject: 8-19 White House press conference

Q. REPORTER: The President has said and believes that John Kerry served honorably in Vietnam, right?

A. MR. McCLELLAN: Yes, he's made that very clear.

Are the Swift Boat Veterans calling Bush a liar and poor judge of character?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Swift boat skipper: Anti-Kerry vets not there that day — I was

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-040821rood,1,2328121.story

There were three swift boats on the river that day in Vietnam more than 35 years ago—three officers and 15 crew members. Only two of those officers remain to talk about what happened on February 28, 1969.

One is John Kerry, the Democratic presidential candidate who won a Silver Star for what happened on that date. I am the other.

For years, no one asked about those events. But now they are the focus of skirmishing in a presidential election with a group of swift boat veterans and others contending that Kerry didn't deserve the Silver Star for what he did on that day, or the Bronze Star and three Purple Hearts he was awarded for other actions.

Many of us wanted to put it all behind us—the rivers, the ambushes, the killing. Ever since that time, I have refused all requests for interviews about Kerry's service—even those from reporters at the Chicago Tribune, where I work.

[Rohirrim]

What amazes me is that these "dishonest and dishonorable" attacks take place, backed by Bush's right-hand man - Karl Rove, against Kerry, against McCain and against Cleland - and still, half the American people want to vote for Bush. The man has never shown a sense of personal honor or personal responsibility. He has never created anything on his own. Everything he has, and everywhere he's gone, it's been handed to him. He pretty much went through life on the party train, always having others right there ready to clean up his mess - make the records disappear, shut up the detractors, buy off the truth. And half the American people want to choose this coward over actual war heroes - just because he can hire an effective smear machine?

Like PT Barnum said, "No man ever went broke underestimating the gullibility of the American people.

[Blueflame]

Check out the first letter in this LTTE page...

http://www.telluridegateway.com/articles/2004/08/20/news/opinion/opinion01.txt

[watermock]

Telluuride Gateway? Did you read the opinion below it? That's Telluride, a town for the filthy rich liberal elite to discuss the poor from million dollar mansions, and service workers complaining about their lot working tables when it was their own choice to become ski bums. Give me a break. These people are buying up real estate up there like noones business, making the town totally two tiered, the elite, and service workers. Durango is getting just as bad, and Aspen is has been, the elite are in Telluride before they find another South Park town to destroy with the very development they oppose. Sure, they oppose further development....ONCE THEY HAVE THEIR FOOTPRINT in the door. These people are the ultimate hypocrytes.

There isn't any denial that A mine went off under #3 boat. And it isn't disputed that the boats turned and laid down lead. The question is, where were the viet cong? Was there any blood recovered? Any bodies? Any actual hits on Kerry's boat?

This clown has serious credibility problems, as do many of Kerry's own contradictory statements. Maybe he can embelish it, but I am not buying. Not from some clown in Telluride. God knows if it's even the same person. Kerry had people impersonate real veterans for Christ sake. Why doesn't this clown make a press anouncement than sending an email to a Telluride newspaper? I'm sure Kerry would love to hear his statements. Even in your colored glasses you have to wonder why he chose this partiuliar soapbox.

[Blueflame]

Telluuride Gateway? Did you read the opinion below it? That's Telluride, a town for the filthy rich liberal elite to discuss the poor from million dollar mansions, and service workers complaining about their lot working tables when it was their own choice to become ski bums. Give me a break. These people are buying up real estate up there like noones business, making the town totally two tiered, the elite, and service workers. Durango is getting just as bad, and Aspen is has been, the elite are in Telluride before they find another South Park town to destroy with the very development they oppose. Sure, they oppose further development....ONCE THEY HAVE THEIR FOOTPRINT in the door. These people are the ultimate hypocrytes.

There isn't any denial that A mine went off under #3 boat. And it isn't disputed that the boats turned and laid down lead. The question is, where were the viet cong? Was there any blood recovered? Any bodies? Any actual hits on Kerry's boat?

This clown has serious credibility problems, as do many of Kerry's own contradictory statements. Maybe he can embelish it, but I am not buying. Not from some clown in Telluride. God knows if it's even the same person. Kerry had people impersonate real veterans for Christ sake. Why doesn't this clown make a press anouncement than sending an email to a Telluride newspaper? I'm sure Kerry would love to hear his statements. Even in your colored glasses you have to wonder why he chose this partiuliar soapbox.

The fact that you appear willing to scrap historical records in favor of the swiftliars' unsubstantiated smears speaks volumes about your own biases, Mock. What makes this veteran a "clown"? Refuting the swiftlies you so desperately want to believe?

I think this webpage excerpt says it all...

"What is even more remarkable is that SBV's hate-filled mendacity is nothing other than a direct attack on the integrity of the American Armed Forces - something that Republicans like them claim to hold dear."

http://swiftvets.eriposte.com/

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

...and still, half the American people want to vote for Bush.

That's only if you believe the BushCo ministry of truth, a.k.a., the American corporate media.

Take away the right-wing media's control over the narrative, and it's Kerry in a landslide.

Instead of having 24/7 coverage of the Swift Boat Cretins crammed down our throats, we'd be discussing such trifles as record net job loss, record deficits, record oil prices, the horrible mess BushCo has created in Iraq, etc., etc. (You know...issues that are important to most Americans?)

We are not really running against bush.

We are running against the media.

Were this not the case, then Smirk, Dick, and Unka Karl would be wearing orange jumpsuits about now.

[watermock]

The fact that you appear willing to scrap historical records in favor of the swiftliars' unsubstantiated smears speaks volumes about your own biases, Mock. What makes this veteran a "clown"? Refuting the swiftlies you so desperately want to believe?

I think this webpage excerpt says it all...

something that Republicans like them claim to hold dear." [/i][/b]

http://swiftvets.eriposte.com/

This guy doesn't have a "historical record" whatsoever. Is that why he's emailing a telluride tabloid? Give me a break. And you counter with a webpage blog? I am not biased against anything. Let the man speak, just lets bring him out and let him clearly identify himself and make a statement. That was the point. For the 20th time, Kerry wrote the day report because he volunteered and had a typewriter conveniently with him. Go figure.

In fact, Kerry has not released all his personal records from Vietnam whatsoever, only official files. So when this Telluride clown makes a formal statement to back up his own E-mail statements to some elitist crowd in Tellurride, let me know.

Hell, I could of written it and signed his name to it. After all, Kerry didn't have a problem accepting falsified statements the first time, thats allready established. Now it's "I didn't know". Hell, he had impostors using veterans names in front of congress to support his "War Attrocities" claims. Well, he indicted himself more than anyone, then he wants to run on the War Hero plank? Give me a break.

WTF?

"What is even more remarkable is that SBV's hate-filled mendacity is nothing other than a direct attack on the integrity of the American Armed Forces -

Did you read Kerry's testimony about cutting off heads from "vets" using veterans names, and having to retract his own testimony?

Kerry was the one attacking the integrity of the Armed Forces! WTF is wrong with you? With demonstrated, proven lies. And another thing. When did they make a direct attack on the integrity of the Armed Forces? Wasn't it an attack on Kerry's lies? What the hell are you on?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Flashback: In 1999, media virtually ignored anti-Bush book -- except to report on author's credibility; 'Fortunate Son' was pulled by publisher after Bush legal threats.

Larry Thurlow, the member of Swift Boat Veterans for the Truth whose account of John Kerry's activities in Vietnam was discredited by The Washington Post, appeared on MSNBC's Hardball with Chris Matthews on August 19. During the exchange, Matthews said, "[Y]ou haven't produced any personal knowledge about this plan you talked about, Mr. Thurlow, and that's the problem tonight."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A13267-2004Aug18.html

http://mediamatters.org/items/200408200009

[watermock]

Flashback: In 1999, media virtually ignored anti-Bush book -- except to report on author's credibility; 'Fortunate Son' was pulled by publisher after Bush legal threats.

First Dimwit, why would they pull it? I wouldn't pull it! So what is the deal there dimwit? It was Nazi burned or whatever your sick mind imagines?

Larry Thurlow, the member of Swift Boat Veterans for the Truth whose account of John Kerry's activities in Vietnam was discredited by The Washington Post, appeared on MSNBC's Hardball with Chris Matthews on August 19. During the exchange, Matthews said, "[Y]ou haven't produced any personal knowledge about this plan you talked about, Mr. Thurlow, and that's the problem tonight."

If your going to cut and paste, make it an argument. What plan is he talking about? What discredidation? What Plan?

All you did was cut and paste you dimwit.

[watermock]

"[Y]ou haven't produced any personal knowledge about this plan you talked about, Mr. Thurlow.

Huh? This clown can't even manage a quote. If you can tell me about the plan to take Kerry over the Cambodian Border for Christmans Turkey I am all ears.

What Plan? They were on Patrol you dimwit.

[Blueflame]

This guy doesn't have a "historical record" whatsoever. Is that why he's emailing a telluride tabloid? Give me a break. And you counter with a webpage blog? I am not biased against anything. Let the man speak, just lets bring him out and let him clearly identify himself and make a statement. That was the point. For the 20th time, Kerry wrote the day report because he volunteered and had a typewriter conveniently with him. Go figure.

In fact, Kerry has not released all his personal records from Vietnam whatsoever, only official files. So when this Telluride clown makes a formal statement to back up his own E-mail statements to some elitist crowd in Tellurride, let me know.

Hell, I could of written it and signed his name to it. After all, Kerry didn't have a problem accepting falsified statements the first time, thats allready established. Now it's "I didn't know". Hell, he had impostors using veterans names in front of congress to support his "War Attrocities" claims. Well, he indicted himself more than anyone, then he wants to run on the War Hero plank? Give me a break.

WTF?



Did you read Kerry's testimony about cutting off heads from "vets" using veterans names, and having to retract his own testimony?

Kerry was the one attacking the integrity of the Armed Forces! WTF is wrong with you? With demonstrated, proven lies. And another thing. When did they make a direct attack on the integrity of the Armed Forces? Wasn't it an attack on Kerry's lies? What the hell are you on?


Lots of people opt for the avenue of letters to the editor of their local newspaper when they want to make political commentary, Mock.... and it appears that's what this guy chose to do. This does not automatically call his credibility into question... nor does it automatically make him a "clown"... ::)

While there is no doubt that the man has a "historical record"... (the military does tend to keep records on everyone who served), the historical records referred to in my post were the ones contradicted by the swiftliars. You know... like Thurlow's contention that there was no enemy fire, despite the historical record (the citation that came with his Bronze Star) that clearly states the opposite. Obviously the swiftliars have no problem with signing their names to statements they are fully aware are false.

Speaking of incomplete records, where's Bush's honorable discharge paperwork?

It's you that doesn't get it, Mock... when the swiftliars question Kerry's medals, they're questioning every medal ever given to a soldier, including their own... and the integrity of the Navy, which awarded those medals.

[Blueflame]

First Dimwit, why would they pull it? I wouldn't pull it! So what is the deal there dimwit? It was Nazi burned or whatever your sick mind imagines?

The publisher (St. Martin Press, I believe) did, in fact, pull Fortunate Son... look it up. It's been re-published, but LABF is right that Bush influence was successful in quashing the first printing of the book. Since that time, the author (James Hatfield) "committed suicide"...

[Bronco_Beerslug]

I knew he would when the Swift Boatees started falling apart. And I knew he wouldn't have for as long as they didn't get caught.

-----------------------------
By PETE YOST, Associated Press Writer

CRAWFORD, Texas - President Bush (news - web sites) denounced TV ads by outside groups attacking both John Kerry (news - web sites) and himself on Monday and called for a halt to all such political efforts. "I think they're bad for the system," he said.

In a conference call with reporters arranged by aides to the Democratic presidential candidate, Navy swift boat officers Rich McCann, Jim Russell and Rich Baker said Kerry acted honorably and bravely and was well qualified to be the nation's commander in chief.

"He was the most aggressive officer in charge of swift boats," Baker said.

Additionally, crewmate Del Sandusky said at a news conference in Harrisburg, Pa., that he personally witnessed the battle action for which Kerry received Silver and Bronze stars and two of his three Purple Hearts.

"He deserved every one of his medals," Sandusky, a retired computer repairman who drove Kerry's boat for nearly three months.

"The president ... and (political adviser) Karl Rove have flipped back to the well-worn smear page of their campaign playbook, last used against John McCain in 2000," Kerry's campaign said in a statement Sunday. Voters want to hear about the issues, "not lies and smears, and it's time the president realized that."

A new Kerry campaign ad says Bush smeared McCain four years ago and "Now, he's doing it to John Kerry."

A former Vietnam prisoner of war, McCain lost the South Carolina Republican primary in 2000 after Bush supporters accused him of opposing legislation to help military veterans. McCain never recovered from that primary loss.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&u=/ap/20040823/ap_on_el_pr/war_politics_20

[bendog]

Thinking of "fortunate son" did anybody read the book by Chesty Puller's son? I did. Harrowing. I didn't read the one about BushII.

[errand]

Speaking of incomplete records, where's Bush's honorable discharge paperwork?



....so tell us Blueflame...has Kerry released his medical records from Vietnam?

Surely these will vindicate him and shut these SwiftBoat vets up right?

[MLB]

Check out the first letter in this LTTE page...

http://www.telluridegateway.com/articles/2004/08/20/news/opinion/opinion01.txt

Better yet, check out the SECOND letter...

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Speaking of incomplete records, where's Bush's honorable discharge paperwork?

And where are the records to prove he showed up for his ANG service?

How come no one has come forward to confirm that they served with Smirk in Alabama?

Kerry has released all of his military records--why hasn't the chimp done the same?

Inquiring minds want to know.

[Blueflame]

....so tell us Blueflame...has Kerry released his medical records from Vietnam?

Surely these will vindicate him and shut these SwiftBoat vets up right?

Plenty has already been presented to vindicate Kerry and discredit the swiftliars, Errand.

And why should Kerry release his medical records? Bush hasn't released his, has he? Maybe Americans should be entitled to know why he blew off his physical, resulting in loss of his flight status.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Maybe Americans should be entitled to know why he blew off his physical, resulting in loss of his flight status.

Particularly when the taxpayers spent millions of dollars training Smirk to fly airplanes (and he finished flight school in the lowest percentile.)