One of the swift Boat guys against Kerry retracts statement

[Spider]

But yesterday, a key figure in the anti-Kerry campaign, Kerry's former commanding officer, backed off one of the key contentions. Lieutenant Commander George Elliott said in an interview that he had made a ''terrible mistake" in signing an affidavit that suggests Kerry did not deserve the Silver Star -- one of the main allegations in the book. The affidavit was given to The Boston Globe by the anti-Kerry group to justify assertions in their ad and book.

Elliott is quoted as saying that Kerry ''lied about what occurred in Vietnam . . . for example, in connection with his Silver Star, I was never informed that he had simply shot a wounded, fleeing Viet Cong in the back."

The statement refers to an episode in which Kerry killed a Viet Cong soldier who had been carrying a rocket launcher, part of a chain of events that formed the basis of his Silver Star. Over time, some Kerry critics have questioned whether the soldier posed a danger to Kerry's crew. Crew members have said Kerry's actions saved their lives.

Yesterday, reached at his home, Elliott said he regretted signing the affidavit and said he still thinks Kerry deserved the Silver Star.

''I still don't think he shot the guy in the back," Elliott said. ''It was a terrible mistake probably for me to sign the affidavit with those words. I'm the one in trouble here."

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2004/08/06/veteran_retracts_criticism_of_kerry/
and I guess none of those guys served on the swift boat with Kerry ......
like they claim .........

[Spider]

Swift Boat Veterans for Truth did not serve alongside Kerry

In the new ad, members of Swift Boat Veterans for Truth claim that they "served with John Kerry." Hannity & Colmes co-host Sean Hannity echoed the false claim, saying that the veterans in the ad are "the people that know him best," and referred to them as "some of his fellow crewmates." Even Pat Halpin, who was filling in for co-host Alan Colmes, called them "some of John Kerry's crewmates." Scarborough echoed Swift Boat Veterans' misleading claim that they "served with John Kerry in Vietnam."

While the veterans attacking Kerry in the ad are veterans of the Vietnam War and may have served at the same time as Kerry, as The New York Times reported on August 5, the Kerry campaign noted that "none of the men had actually served on the Swift boats that Mr. Kerry commanded." Adm. Roy F. Hoffman, one of the veterans in the ad, has even "acknowledged he had no first-hand knowledge to discredit Kerry's claims to valor," the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel reported on May 7, "and said that although Kerry was under his command, he really didn't know Kerry much personally."

In contrast, many of the veterans who have appeared on the campaign trail with Kerry did serve alongside him. The Wall Street Journal's Albert R. Hunt noted in his August 5 "Campaign Journal" column, titled "Sham Charges Against a War Hero" (subscription required): "Indeed, 10 of the 11 men who served on his two swift boats all have sworn by John Kerry; nine living members were in Boston [for the Democratic National Convention]."

Swift Boat Veterans for Truth's Republican ties

As Media Matters for America previously noted, on May 4, Salon.com's Joe Conason detailed Swift Boat Veterans for Truth's ties to the Republican Party. In addition to pointing out that the group's founder, John O'Neill, has long-standing ties to the GOP that can be traced back to the Nixon administration, Conason also reported that among the people behind Swift Boat Veterans for Truth is "veteran corporate media consultant and Texas Republican activist Merrie Spaeth, who is listed as the group's media contact."

As MMFA has documented, both Hannity & Colmes co-host Alan Colmes (on May 28) and FOX chief political correspondent Carl Cameron (on May 4) reported the group's Republican ties on FOX News Channel; on May 4, Scarborough mentioned criticism of O'Neill's "dirty tricks" for the Nixon administration. While Scarborough did mention on August 4 that the group was part of the "Republican counteroffensive" "prepar[ing] to release blistering attacks in John Kerry's Vietnam record," Hannity completely ignored the group's ties to the GOP.

Swift Boat Veterans for Truth doctor did not sign Kerry's medical record

Neither Hannity nor Scarborough bothered to note that Dr. Louis Letson, who is featured in the ad claiming to have treated Kerry for the wound that earned him his first Purple Heart and claiming that it was undeserved, was not the medical official who signed Kerry's medical records for the wound. The Kerry campaign noted this fact in a report in The New York Times and a report in the Los Angeles Times that surfaced when Letson first unleashed this attack in May.

In criticizing the ad, McCain told the Associated Press, "'It was the same kind of deal that was pulled on me'... referring to his [McCain's] bitter Republican primary fight with President Bush," according to the AP. As Conason reported on May 4, "The 'swift boat' veterans attacking John Kerry's war record are led by veteran right-wing operatives using the same vicious techniques they used against John McCain four years ago." Conason explained that Spaeth (the group's media contact) participated during the 2000 Republican primary contest in TV ads that "falsely attack[ed]" McCain's environmental record in California, New York, and Ohio.

McCain might have been referring as well to attacks on his military record by Ted Sampley and Thomas Burch, both Vietnam veterans, during the 2000 primary season. As Media Matters for America previously reported, Sampley hounded McCain as a "Manchurian Candidate" -- suggesting that the decorated veteran and former prisoner of war was a brainwashed communist agent -- and was convicted for misdemeanor assault related to an attack on one of McCain's legislative aides. Sampley is the leader of a group called Vietnam Veterans Against John Kerry. During the 2000 Republican primary in South Carolina, Burch, according to a February 22 report in the Chicago Tribune, "stood with George W. Bush at his side and accused Sen. John McCain of Arizona of opposing health care for Persian Gulf war veterans and blocking efforts to locate POW-MIAs, saying the former prisoner of war "came home from Vietnam and forgot us."

http://mediamatters.org/items/200408050007

[Rohirrim]

I'm sure that Exile will make his way over to this thread to apologize for some of his statements impugning the reputation of an American war hero.

[Spider]

I'm sure that Exile will make his way over to this thread to apologize for some of his statements impugning the reputation of an American war hero.
Ha! , I wouldnt count on it .Exile doesnt care about people who have served in the Armed forces ....... Not untill Bush Bush tells him to do so ........

[RaiderH8r]

They can air their opinion and version of the story just as Michael Moore can. It's all free speech. Where's Kerry's condemnation of Moveon.org's comparison to Hitler? Why isn't he being called on to voice his disfavor over their slanted observation?

[Spider]

They can air their opinion and version of the story just as Michael Moore can. It's all free speech. Where's Kerry's condemnation of Moveon.org's comparison to Hitler? Why isn't he being called on to voice his disfavor over their slanted observation?
LOL , No they flat out lied . I served with John Kerry , they clearly state that .......

[Rascal]

At this point i'm sick and tired of all these attacks by both sides and the hypocrisy spewing from their mouths. Just put them in a room let them fight it out, and whoever wins is the President.

At this point I just don't really give a damn. It makes me sad that this is the state of our nation and how it is tearing us apart. Here we are being attacked from external threats and we are letting our bickering and hatred of other opinions destroy us from within and weaken us to external attacks. This is exactly what happened to the Romans. Don't believe me, try reading a history book.

Have a good weekend and try not to kill somebody from the "other party". This is sickening.

[RaiderH8r]

LOL , No they flat out lied . I served with John Kerry , they clearly state that .......
Did they say, "I served with John Kerry" or "I was on the same boat with John Kerry all day every day and witnessed everything he did from dinner to dancing". Many people did serve with him, who had contact with him on a regular basis and served in close proximity. Because they didn't hold his pampers doesn't mean they don't have valuable information about him that they feel needs to be discussed in a public forum....which is their fundamental right. Why is it Free Speech only applies to artists and Michael Moore types?

[Taco John]

Wow... This thing is getting real ugly. This Smear Boat thing has blown up in their faces with this admission. You can't have officers backing out of affidavits the day after the campaign gets started. But that's not to say that it hasn't done any damage.

This is what I STILL don't get about this whole thing, and makes it all suspect to me...


- The Swift Boat veterans say that Kerry lied Under oath, and that there were no atrocities or war crimes. As proof, they offer that no commander recorded any.

- The Swift Boat Veterans say that they saw Kerry committing atrocities and war crimes. However, no commander reported this information.

So what gives? I hate to undercut the credibility of a veteran. But this whole thing reaks of politics, and the credibility of these veterans is not holding up to scrutiny.

This sucks.

[Spider]

Did they say, "I served with John Kerry" or "I was on the same boat with John Kerry all day every day and witnessed everything he did from dinner to dancing". Many people did serve with him, who had contact with him on a regular basis and served in close proximity. Because they didn't hold his pampers doesn't mean they don't have valuable information about him that they feel needs to be discussed in a public forum....which is their fundamental right. Why is it Free Speech only applies to artists and Michael Moore types?
Hilarious!
Spin ........ Nice try one of the main guys admits he lied , Just admit that it was a gamble and it backfired ......... The others led us to believe they served with Kerry , they didnt say i was in Nam the same time , Nor did they say I was served on a different boat .........
If it isnt that big of a deal , they should have said , I served in the Mekong Delta same time as Kerry on a different boat , and from my Boat we saw things different then Kerry .........

[watermock]

The statement refers to an episode in which Kerry killed a Viet Cong soldier who had been carrying a rocket launcher, part of a chain of events that formed the basis of his Silver Star. Over time, some Kerry critics have questioned whether the soldier posed a danger to Kerry's crew. Crew members have said Kerry's actions saved their lives.

Yesterday, reached at his home, Elliott said he regretted signing the affidavit and said he still thinks Kerry deserved the Silver Star.

I don't think it's a big deal to shoot a retreating enemy in the back, but when was that a silver star?

The guy had an RPG and was running away. You cap Charlie. Why is shooting Charlie in the back a silver star?

My second cousin held down DaNang. They had air drops. open field to retrieve supplies. That's a silver star.

[Mile High Shack]

Personally I don't care either way....I'm sick of hearing about Kerry and 'Nam.

What does his service for 4 months in 'Nam have anything to do with his presidency bid?

answer....nothing.

He shouldn't of tried to wrap himself around his service record to try and show how "tough" he was on defense....when his voting record obviously depicts otherwise.

That's what I'm more concerned about is his senate voting record of being very soft on defense.

[Spider]

Then that means Cheney is also , weak on Defense that is .......

[Exile_In_SJ]

Personally I don't care either way....I'm sick of hearing about Kerry and 'Nam.

What does his service for 4 months in 'Nam have anything to do with his presidency bid?

answer....nothing.

He shouldn't of tried to wrap himself around his service record to try and show how "tough" he was on defense....when his voting record obviously depicts otherwise.

That's what I'm more concerned about is his senate voting record of being very soft on defense.


That's just it, Heinz-Kerry doesn't have anything else to run on, other than he served in Viet Nam.

He seems to think, as do the democrats, that his Viet Nam service qualifies him to be President, yet relly offers no reasons why.

As for the guy retracting what he said, there's still plenty of others to back up what they said.

[Taco John]

He shouldn't of tried to wrap himself around his service record to try and show how "tough" he was on defense....when his voting record obviously depicts otherwise.



I've heard this allegation, but I haven't seen any proof that Kerry is soft on defense. From what I've seen, he's not. At least nat any more than someone like Cheney's record shows. The the propoganda that Kerry is soft on defense keeps getting repeated.

[Taco John]

As for the guy retracting what he said, there's still plenty of others to back up what they said.



That's not how credibility works.

[Mile High Shack]

I've heard this allegation, but I haven't seen any proof that Kerry is soft on defense. From what I've seen, he's not. At least nat any more than someone like Cheney's record shows. The the propoganda that Kerry is soft on defense keeps getting repeated.


his voting record is public

check it out....that's when he did vote.

[Exile_In_SJ]

In an interview with one of the swift boat veterans, the veteran said he commanded a swift boat alongside Heinz-Kerrys boat on many missions. That qualifies as serving with him. They didn't say they were on the same boat, after all many of them were boat commanders also.

One of them also said of the rescue, that he was at a higher, better vantage point to see what was going on.

You guys are being disingenuous saying that none of these guys saw anything or didn't serve with Heinz-Kerrry.

[BroncoInferno]

In an interview with one of the swift boat veterans, the veteran said he commanded a swift boat alongside Heinz-Kerrys boat on many missions. That qualifies as serving with him. They didn't say they were on the same boat, after all many of them were boat commanders also.

One of them also said of the rescue, that he was at a higher, better vantage point to see what was going on.

You guys are being disingenuous saying that none of these guys saw anything or didn't serve with Heinz-Kerrry.

So all the men that were actually on Kerry's boat who say he saved their lives are liars? The man who says Kerry pulled him out of the water and saved his life is a liar? In the latter case, the man was a life-long republican who is supporting Kerry because of his respect for the man.

[Exile_In_SJ]

ANTI-KERRY VETS HANG TOUGH
Fri Aug 06 2004 13:37:12 ET

The following statement from Swift Boat Veterans for Truth concerns an article appearing in morning edition of the BOSTON GLOBE, written by GLOBE reporter and author of the official Kerry-Edwards campaign book, Mike Kranish.

"Captain George Elliott describes an article appearing in today’s edition of the BOSTON GLOBE by Mike Kranish as extremely inaccurate and highly misstating his actual views. He reaffirms his statement in the current advertisement paid for by the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, Captain Elliott reaffirms his affidavit in support of that advertisement, and he reaffirms his request that the ad be played.

“Additional documentation will follow.

"The article by Mr. Kranish is particularly surprising given page 102 of Mr. Kranish’s own book quoting John Kerry as acknowledging that he killed a single, wounded, fleeing Viet Cong soldier whom he was afraid would turn around.

"Swift Boat Veterans for Truth has more than 250 supporters who are revealing first hand, eyewitness accounts of numerous incidents concerning John Kerry’s military service record. The organization will continue to discuss much of what John Kerry has reported as fact concerning his four-month tour of duty in Vietnam."

END

[Spider]

ANTI-KERRY VETS HANG TOUGH
Fri Aug 06 2004 13:37:12 ET

The following statement from Swift Boat Veterans for Truth concerns an article appearing in morning edition of the BOSTON GLOBE, written by GLOBE reporter and author of the official Kerry-Edwards campaign book, Mike Kranish.

"Captain George Elliott describes an article appearing in today’s edition of the BOSTON GLOBE by Mike Kranish as extremely inaccurate and highly misstating his actual views. He reaffirms his statement in the current advertisement paid for by the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, Captain Elliott reaffirms his affidavit in support of that advertisement, and he reaffirms his request that the ad be played.

“Additional documentation will follow.

"The article by Mr. Kranish is particularly surprising given page 102 of Mr. Kranish’s own book quoting John Kerry as acknowledging that he killed a single, wounded, fleeing Viet Cong soldier whom he was afraid would turn around.

"Swift Boat Veterans for Truth has more than 250 supporters who are revealing first hand, eyewitness accounts of numerous incidents concerning John Kerry’s military service record. The organization will continue to discuss much of what John Kerry has reported as fact concerning his four-month tour of duty in Vietnam."

END
Got a link ?

[Exile_In_SJ]

And who is this Mike Kranish? He's writing a book on the Kerry-Edwards campaign. He's a paid employee of the Kerry-Edwards campaign.


mmmmm smells pretty fishy. And Mr. Elliot stands by the ad and wants it to be aired.

Sounds like some more dirty tricks by the Dems.

[RaiderH8r]

Hilarious!
Spin ........ Nice try one of the main guys admits he lied , Just admit that it was a gamble and it backfired ......... The others led us to believe they served with Kerry , they didnt say i was in Nam the same time , Nor did they say I was served on a different boat .........
If it isnt that big of a deal , they should have said , I served in the Mekong Delta same time as Kerry on a different boat , and from my Boat we saw things different then Kerry .........
I'm just saying that they have the right to tell their story, they've earned it. Obviously they feel passionately about this.

[Rohirrim]

his voting record is public

check it out....that's when he did vote.

For every one of the military appropriation and intelligence bills Kerry voted against, I'll show you a dozen Repubs. who joined him in the vote. Even Cheney had to tell the military that the U.S. government wasn't a candy store. It shows fiscal responsibility. Not something this admin. wants to highlight, for sure. Ha!

[Spider]

And who is this Mike Kranish? He's writing a book on the Kerry-Edwards campaign. He's a paid employee of the Kerry-Edwards campaign.


mmmmm smells pretty fishy. And Mr. Elliot stands by the ad and wants it to be aired.

Sounds like some more dirty tricks by the Dems.
I asked for a Link ....... I would like to see who is reporting this ........
And i am curious about Dr Louis Letson , the Doctor claiming to have treated Kerry , when another Doctors signature is on Kerrys Medical record .....
If you could provide a link to your story it would help ........

[Rohirrim]

I'm just saying that they have the right to tell their story, they've earned it. Obviously they feel passionately about this.

Passion isn't a defense for lying.

[Exile_In_SJ]

XXXXX DRUDGE REPORT XXXXX FRI AUG 06, 2004 14:05:38 ET XXXXX

BOSTON GLOBE 'REPORTER' PAID TO WRITE CAMPAIGN BOOK FORWARD WHILE COVERING KERRY

BOSTON GLOBE reporter Mike Kranish made waves on Friday by reporting "a key figure in the anti-Kerry campaign, Kerry's former commanding officer, backed off one of the key contentions."

But Captain George Elliott claims the Kranish article is "extremely inaccurate" and highly misstated his actual views.

Oddly, journalist Kranish has been commissioned to write the forward of the official Kerry-Edwards campaign book -- just as he is covering the campaign in an official capacity as a journalist for the BOSTON GLOBE!

Developing...

[Spider]

I'm just saying that they have the right to tell their story, they've earned it. Obviously they feel passionately about this.
LOL ........

[Exile_In_SJ]

Apparently they weren't lying. Looks like the reporter took some liberties.

[Spider]

XXXXX DRUDGE REPORT XXXXX FRI AUG 06, 2004 14:05:38 ET XXXXX

BOSTON GLOBE 'REPORTER' PAID TO WRITE CAMPAIGN BOOK FORWARD WHILE COVERING KERRY

BOSTON GLOBE reporter Mike Kranish made waves on Friday by reporting "a key figure in the anti-Kerry campaign, Kerry's former commanding officer, backed off one of the key contentions."

But Captain George Elliott claims the Kranish article is "extremely inaccurate" and highly misstated his actual views.

Oddly, journalist Kranish has been commissioned to write the forward of the official Kerry-Edwards campaign book -- just as he is covering the campaign in an official capacity as a journalist for the BOSTON GLOBE!

Developing...
Oh the Drudge report . Hilarious!
That explains alot .. No wonder you didnt provide a link

[RaiderH8r]

Passion isn't a defense for lying.
Really? cough cough bullsh!t cough cough. Michael Moore cough cough full o' sh!t cough cough.

[Spider]

Boston Globe vs Drudge ?
Hilarious!

[BroncoInferno]

Drudge......ROFL!......get back to us when this is reported by a real news source.

[Spider]

Drudge was the same one that Reported about a Kerry having an affair . that went no where ......... I think Drudge has a 10% Record of getting news right

[Exile_In_SJ]

Got a link ?

http://www.drudgereport.com/flash5.htm


http://www.drudgereport.com/dnc89.htm

[Rohirrim]

Really? cough cough bullsh!t cough cough. Michael Moore cough cough full o' sh!t cough cough.

Like I've said many times before. Michael Moore is a comedian - kind of in the tradition of Andy Kaufman. I don't take him for more than that. Anybody who does needs their fluids checked.

[RaiderH8r]

Drudge was the same one that Reported about a Kerry having an affair . that went no where ......... I think Drudge has a 10% Record of getting news right
He also reported Clinton's affair. Hasn't the mantra been, "Don't shoot the messenger". WTF? I see Bartpuke's stuff on here all the time and all I hear is "Don't shoot the messenger". Laura Bush murder story BS, "Don't shoot the messenger". Well......DON'T SHOOT THE MESSENGER!!

[Spider]

http://www.drudgereport.com/flash5.htm


http://www.drudgereport.com/dnc89.htm
Hilarious! Hilarious! Hilarious! Ha! Ha! rofl rofl
Like I said that explains alot ......... Drudge was a Major Backer of the Ad in question ..............

[Rohirrim]

With Drudge, you always have to wait a few hours for someone else to rebut and actually come up with the facts.

[Exile_In_SJ]

I don't doubt they're accurate, he's pretty good on straight news.

[RaiderH8r]

Like I've said many times before. Michael Moore is a comedian - kind of in the tradition of Andy Kaufman. I don't take him for more than that. Anybody who does needs their fluids checked.
No argument with the fact that he is a comedian, but Andy Kaufman pulled pranks on a massive scale. He didn't make a BS story to influence an election and call it a documentary. If Moore simply calls it a comic bit then my gripe will be resolved.

[Spider]

He also reported Clinton's affair. Hasn't the mantra been, "Don't shoot the messenger". WTF? I see Bartpuke's stuff on here all the time and all I hear is "Don't shoot the messenger". Laura Bush murder story BS, "Don't shoot the messenger". Well......DON'T SHOOT THE MESSENGER!!
you didnt see me posting that crap ........ Every site is Biased , but some actually have a good record at promoting the truth , others like Drudge , Bartcop , Buzzflash are along the lines of National enquirer ............
Drudge is like the Debka Files , throw shiat on the wall and hope it sticks

[RaiderH8r]

you didnt see me posting that crap ........ Every site is Biased , but some actually have a good record at promoting the truth , others like Drudge , Bartcop , Buzzflash are along the lines of National enquirer ............
Drudge is like the Debka Files , throw shiat on the wall and hope it sticks
True, you don't post that tripe and I commend you for that. However, you haven't been calling BS on it either.

[Blueflame]

Wow... This thing is getting real ugly. This Smear Boat thing has blown up in their faces with this admission. You can't have officers backing out of affidavits the day after the campaign gets started. But that's not to say that it hasn't done any damage.

This is what I STILL don't get about this whole thing, and makes it all suspect to me...


- The Swift Boat veterans say that Kerry lied Under oath, and that there were no atrocities or war crimes. As proof, they offer that no commander recorded any.

- The Swift Boat Veterans say that they saw Kerry committing atrocities and war crimes. However, no commander reported this information.

So what gives? I hate to undercut the credibility of a veteran. But this whole thing reaks of politics, and the credibility of these veterans is not holding up to scrutiny.

This sucks.


Yes, it does suck, TJ. My own skepticism of the Swift Boat vets' criticism was spurred by the fact that no negative comments about Kerry's service were recorded at the time, but now they suddenly proliferate as a political tool.. it just seems unlikely to me that the passage of 30+ years would improve one's memory particularly when it directly contradicts official Navy records.

[BroncoInferno]

I don't doubt they're accurate, he's pretty good on straight news.

Drudge is the moveon.org of the far right. Neither should be trusted for reliable news information. If this is ever reported by a legit news source, then all well and good. Either way, I think I'll take the word of the actual men who served on Kerry's particular boat. Their eyewitness accounts are unimpeachable because we know they were there. Some of them are even life-long republicans. Of those men, the only one not in his corner is deceased.

[Exile_In_SJ]

I disagree, Drudge is more accurate than not. And to compare him to Bartcop is ludicrous. Drudge often reports on things that put republicans in a bad light. Bartcop is just an anti republican site.

[Blueflame]

With Drudge, you always have to wait a few hours for someone else to rebut and actually come up with the facts.

Sometimes "mainstream" media can be just as bad... didn't the New York Post recently suffer a major embarrassment through their premature announcement that Kerry had chosen Gephardt as his VP? Ha!

[Spider]

I disagree, Drudge is more accurate than not. And to compare him to Bartcop is ludicrous. Drudge often reports on things that put republicans in a bad light. Bartcop is just an anti republican site.
you are right to Compare Drudge to Bartcop is Ludirous .... Bartcop is correct at least 11% of the time as to Drudges 10% ...............

[Spider]

True, you don't post that tripe and I commend you for that. However, you haven't been calling BS on it either.
you are right I dont call LABF on it , everyone else does , he dont need me piling on .....

[Exile_In_SJ]

Many of the swift boat guys were eye witnesses also. They commanded boats in the same squadrons and went on many missions with Kerry's boat.

And, some of the swift boat guys are also Democrats.

You don't have to be on the same boat to have seen what happened.

[Blueflame]

I disagree, Drudge is more accurate than not. And to compare him to Bartcop is ludicrous. Drudge often reports on things that put republicans in a bad light. Bartcop is just an anti republican site.

It clearly states on Bartcop's website that it's a political humor site. But as LABF stated regarding commondreams.org,, 2+2 does not cease to equal 4 just because that information was posted on Bartcop's website.

[Exile_In_SJ]

neither Bartcop nor moveon.org say anything bad or inimical to Democrats unless they aren't left wing enough.

Drudge is different, he posts things that are often bad for republicans and Bush. That's called credibility.

[Spider]

neither Bartcop nor moveon.org say anything bad or inimical to Democrats unless they aren't left wing enough.

Drudge is different, he posts things that are often bad for republicans and Bush. That's called credibility.
LOL Hilarious! Hilarious! Hilarious!
thats a good one .........

[Blueflame]

neither Bartcop nor moveon.org say anything bad or inimical to Democrats unless they aren't left wing enough.

Drudge is different, he posts things that are often bad for republicans and Bush. That's called credibility.

Drudge also posts stuff that is totally fabricated and that's called "lack of credibility"....

[RaiderH8r]

Drudge also posts stuff that is totally fabricated and that's called "lack of credibility"....
It's all hushed up by the liberal media. Hilarious!

[Exile_In_SJ]

It clearly states on Bartcop's website that it's a political humor site. But as LABF stated regarding commondreams.org,, 2+2 does not cease to equal 4 just because that information was posted on Bartcop's website.


nor does 2 + 2 cease to equal 4 because it appeared on Drudge as some imply here.

[Spider]

Many of the swift boat guys were eye witnesses also. They commanded boats in the same squadrons and went on many missions with Kerry's boat.

And, some of the swift boat guys are also Democrats.

You don't have to be on the same boat to have seen what happened.
I think that their hatred for what Kerry said after the war has effected not only their Judgment , but also Clouded their Memory ...........
They are willing to sacrafice their integrity , to get Kerry ...........

[BroncoInferno]

Many of the swift boat guys were eye witnesses also. They commanded boats in the same squadrons and went on many missions with Kerry's boat.

And, some of the swift boat guys are also Democrats.

You don't have to be on the same boat to have seen what happened.

Why haven't they been on record with their "eyewitness reports" until now? I mean, this isn't something new. Kerry's been called a war-hero throughtout his senate career, and most of the men on his boat have been on record for a long time in calling him such. Where were they then to give this contradictory account? It's all highly suspicious. For now, I'm going with the guys who we know for certain witnessed the events (men who were actually on the boat) and have been on record for years about what happened. If some concrete evidence ever comes forward that can prove what the swiftboat.com guys say, then fine. Until then, I'll look on them with a suspicious eye considering the timing of this.

[Exile_In_SJ]

They didn't decide to act and raise money until it was clear that Kerry would be the candidate. They began in May to raise the money and organize. Timing isn't a problem.

A witness on a boat alongside is just as valid as one on the same boat, oftentimes better because they are set back and can see the wholepicture.

Plus the doctor who treated Kerry for one of his 'wounds' questions it.

[BroncoInferno]

I think that their hatred for what Kerry said after the war has effected not only their Judgment , but also Clouded their Memory ...........
They are willing to sacrafice their integrity , to get Kerry ...........

Good point, spider. Hatred can not only cloud memories, but even inspire an outright distortion of the truth.

[Exile_In_SJ]

I think they are upholding their integrity by doing this, defending veterans everywhere against what Kerry did after the war. Casting aspersions and impugning all veterans without ever offering proof of what he accused... No eyewitnesses, nothing..

Yet here some of these guys were eyewitnesses to what Kerry did.

[Spider]

I think they are upholding their integrity by doing this, defending veterans everywhere against what Kerry did after the war. Casting aspersions and impugning all veterans without ever offering proof of what he accused... No eyewitnesses, nothing..

Yet here some of these guys were eyewitnesses to what Kerry did.
Like the Doctor ?
He didnt even sign Kerrys medical record ..............
George Elliott is now back peddaling from his original Charge .........
See the others Stated I served with Kerry ......... Not I served in the mekong Delta the same as Kerry and we have a different account of the events on our boats .......
Naw that Ad was misleading on purpose ........

[BroncoInferno]

I think they are upholding their integrity by doing this, defending veterans everywhere against what Kerry did after the war. Casting aspersions and impugning all veterans without ever offering proof of what he accused... No eyewitnesses, nothing..

Yet here some of these guys were eyewitnesses to what Kerry did.

Where's the "proof" in the supposed eyewitness accounts from the switfboat.com guys? I haven't read or heard them offer any.

[Blueflame]

Like the Doctor ?
He didnt even sign Kerrys medical record ..............
George Elliott is now back peddaling from his original Charge .........
See the others Stated I served with Kerry ......... Not I served in the mekong Delta the same as Kerry and we have a different account of the events on our boats .......
Naw that Ad was misleading on purpose ........


I agree... the ad was deliberately misleading and all the "talking heads" on Fix News "ran with" the exaggerations, reporting as established fact the idea that the Swiftvets were "the guys who knew Kerry best"... ::)

[BroncoInferno]

I agree... the ad was deliberately misleading and all the "talking heads" on Fix News "ran with" the exaggerations, reporting as established fact the idea that the Swiftvets were "the guys who knew Kerry best"... ::)

In defense of Fox, O'Reilly did call the ads disgusting and said that Bush should come out against them immediately.

[Spider]

I agree... the ad was deliberately misleading and all the "talking heads" on Fix News "ran with" the exaggerations, reporting as established fact the idea that the Swiftvets were "the guys who knew Kerry best"... ::)
;D I do enjoy watching the right spin this though ........ Whats realy funny is Exile telling me Clinton was impeached for lying , and here he is scrambling to defend this ........ I havent had the heart to tell him who helped in making this ad .........

[football idiot]

let's look at this crap another way.

say you're an old Vietnam vet, who got shat upon and mistreated because of Kerry's Senate testimony and anti-war protesting.

say you actually served with the guy.

you're bored, life started rough (Nam), and you came back to a different country that treated you like a war criminal.

30 years later, not much going on in your life, some guy running for president wants to drag you around the country for photo-ops, make you a mini-celebrity, put you up in nice hotels and basically give you a free tour of the country, just for saying how great he was on that tiny boat back in hell you served on together for a couple months...

well hell, sounds like a good time.......

now say you're one of the hundreds of guys running the other boats. unlike this prick, you served your country, came home, and lived a decent life. you didn't slander all your fellow soldiers, you didn't try to make a name for yourself by joining the zealous anti-War movement, you didn't run around calling people baby-killers, rapists, or murderers. now this same idjit, who your division shipped home as quick as they could, is rolling around calling himself a hero, and running for president no less. you remember the stupid crap he pulled when he was in charge of the boat next to you. you remember him taking a video-camera and re-enacting his heroic accomplishments, (yeah, I'm sure his re-enactments and account of what happened were not embellished in the least). you remember his mug on all these posters telling your fellow citizens how evil you are for serving in the war. and now he's pretending he's a war hero for catching a few VERY MINOR wounds that most of you and your crew didn't even file reports on, so he could collect some hardware and go home early.

yeah. i'm voting THAT GUY for president.

[Spider]

let's look at this crap another way.

say you're an old Vietnam vet, who got shat upon and mistreated because of Kerry's Senate testimony and anti-war protesting.

say you actually served with the guy.

you're bored, life started rough (Nam), and you came back to a different country that treated you like a war criminal.

30 years later, not much going on in your life, some guy running for president wants to drag you around the country for photo-ops, make you a mini-celebrity, put you up in nice hotels and basically give you a free tour of the country, just for saying how great he was on that tiny boat back in hell you served on together for a couple months...

well hell, sounds like a good time.......

now say you're one of the hundreds of guys running the other boats. unlike this prick, you served your country, came home, and lived a decent life. you didn't slander all your fellow soldiers, you didn't try to make a name for yourself by joining the zealous anti-War movement, you didn't run around calling people baby-killers, rapists, or murderers. now this same idjit, who your division shipped home as quick as they could, is rolling around calling himself a hero, and running for president no less. you remember the stupid crap he pulled when he was in charge of the boat next to you. you remember him taking a video-camera and re-enacting his heroic accomplishments, (yeah, I'm sure his re-enactments and account of what happened were not embellished in the least). you remember his mug on all these posters telling your fellow citizens how evil you are for serving in the war. and now he's pretending he's a war hero for catching a few VERY MINOR wounds that most of you and your crew didn't even file reports on, so he could collect some hardware and go home early.

yeah. i'm voting THAT GUY for president.
What a Load of Crap .........

[Spider]

And you still didnt answer the Claim that George Elliot admitted he lied .........
you just spewed Propaganda crap and you dont even know if what you spewed is the truth

[Northman]

At this point i'm sick and tired of all these attacks by both sides and the hypocrisy spewing from their mouths. Just put them in a room let them fight it out, and whoever wins is the President.

At this point I just don't really give a damn. It makes me sad that this is the state of our nation and how it is tearing us apart. Here we are being attacked from external threats and we are letting our bickering and hatred of other opinions destroy us from within and weaken us to external attacks. This is exactly what happened to the Romans. Don't believe me, try reading a history book.

Have a good weekend and try not to kill somebody from the "other party". This is sickening.


rep, i agree whole heartedly. :wave:

[Blueflame]

;D I do enjoy watching the right spin this though ........ Whats realy funny is Exile telling me Clinton was impeached for lying , and here he is scrambling to defend this ........ I havent had the heart to tell him who helped in making this ad .........

No doubt... O'Neill attacking Kerry is nothing new; he's been at it for 30+ years... since he was recruited for that purpose by the Nixon administration.

[Exile_In_SJ]

;D I do enjoy watching the right spin this though ........ Whats realy funny is Exile telling me Clinton was impeached for lying , and here he is scrambling to defend this ........ I havent had the heart to tell him who helped in making this ad .........


how dumb are you spider? Clinton was impeached for lying.

[Northman]

I don't doubt they're accurate, he's pretty good on straight news.


you cant be serious? Hilarious!

[Exile_In_SJ]

in an attempt to educate you spider, thugh obviously it might not be possible, here is the story about Clinton... with a link....

House Approves Articles Alleging Perjury, Obstruction
By Peter Baker and Juliet Eilperin
Washington Post Staff Writers
Sunday, December 20, 1998; Page A1

The House of Representatives impeached the president of the United States yesterday for only the second time in American history, charging William Jefferson Clinton with "high crimes and misdemeanors" for lying under oath and obstructing justice to cover up an Oval Office affair with a young intern.

At 1:25 p.m. on a day of constitutional drama and personal trauma, the Republican-led House voted 228 to 206 largely along party lines to approve the first article of impeachment accusing the Democratic president of perjury before a grand jury. Within the hour, lawmakers went on to pass another article alleging he tampered with witnesses and helped hide evidence, but rejected two other articles on perjury and abuse of power.

A solemn, all-Republican delegation led by Judiciary Committee Chairman Henry J. Hyde (R-Ill.) then marched across the Capitol to formally deliver the articles of impeachment to the secretary of the Senate, triggering what promises to be a trial like no other to determine whether the 42nd president will be removed from office. At the same time, scores of restive House Democrats piled into buses to drive up Pennsylvania Avenue and rally around their embattled leader at the White House.

now the link...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/special/clinton/stories/impeach122098.htm


okay, just so you'll be able to understand, I'll type slow... Clinton was impeached for lying under oath, otherwise known as perjury...you've been educated, wether you have the ability to learn is another question.

[Spider]

how dumb are you spider? Clinton was impeached for lying.
Dumb enough to see you making Excuses for these Swiftboat guys Hilarious!
Clinton was impeached over a BJ ..........

[Exile_In_SJ]

you cant be serious? Hilarious!


I'll turn it around.. you can't be serious, are you? only I don't find it hilarious, just sad.

[Northman]

how dumb are you spider? Clinton was impeached for lying.


yea, he was impeached for lying. lying about an affair when it really had nothing to do with politics. it sure wasnt on the grand scale of Nixon like the Righties made it out to be. and now with the republicans saying that Hillary never knew about Slick Willies affairs ( although i find that to be bull**** ) it makes it all the more sense why Clinton lied about it. talk about wasting america's time. :pity:

[Spider]

Simple as that Whitewater Crashed , so they got Clinton on a trumped up BJ Charge .....
ROFL!

[Exile_In_SJ]

well, spider, you've been proven wrong... but you're probably used to it..

[Northman]

I'll turn it around.. you can't be serious, are you? only I don't find it hilarious, just sad.


yea, its sad Exile. its sad that you believe guys like this when they are clearly biased. come on man, wake up from that dreamworld you live in and open your eyes already. sheeesh.

[Spider]

well, spider, you've been proven wrong... but you're probably used to it..
Ha! ...... you realy want to make this about Clinton , But George Elliot lied ....... The Swiftboat crew destroyed themselfs before they could even get started.................

[Exile_In_SJ]

yea, its sad Exile. its sad that you believe guys like this when they are clearly biased. come on man, wake up from that dreamworld you live in and open your eyes already. sheeesh.

never lived in dreamland anubis zyklon, but by the appearance of your nickname, the fantasy world seems to know you well... I've opened my eyes and see the world clearly, that's why I'll vote for Bush again.

[Exile_In_SJ]

Ha! ...... you realy want to make this about Clinton , But George Elliot lied ....... The Swiftboat crew destroyed themselfs before they could even get started.................

I'll discuss anything you want, I like seeing you get abused..

And apparently George Elliot stands by his original view.. Whether he lied, or Kerry lied, is not for you or me to decide. And really they haven't destroyed themselves at all. They put out a point of view and practiced their right of free speech, just like any 527 is allowed to.

[RaiderH8r]

yea, he was impeached for lying. lying about an affair when it really had nothing to do with politics. it sure wasnt on the grand scale of Nixon like the Righties made it out to be. and now with the republicans saying that Hillary never knew about Slick Willies affairs ( although i find that to be bull**** ) it makes it all the more sense why Clinton lied about it. talk about wasting america's time. :pity:
Close, he was impeached for PERJURY. A FELONY offense. See if you can get a government job with a federal offense on your record. See how it goes if you perjure yourself, you'd be happy just to be disbarred. But I digress.

Again, this whole retraction thing appears to be developing and still has not come full circle. However, the same idea that Kerry "earned" his right to protest the war supports the idea that the Swift Boaters have "earned" their right to tell their story.

[Northman]

never lived in dreamland anubis zyklon, but by the appearance of your nickname, the fantasy world seems to know you well... I've opened my eyes and see the world clearly, that's why I'll vote for Bush again.


hmmm, Anubis ( Eygptian god worshipped by Eygptians ) = Fact
Zyklon ( Gas used to exterminate Jews by Hitler, also a name of a Metal Band ) = also fact.


am i missing something here? its all ok though Exile, i would rather spend my energy argueing with the chief trolls than on a fellow bronco fan so no hard feelings. 8')

[Exile_In_SJ]

exactly right RaiderH8r... many of those guys are decorated vets and have earned the right to free speech, even though the litigious DNC is attempting to thwart their right to free speech

[Exile_In_SJ]

no problem then Anubis..f*ck the queefs.

[Northman]

Close, he was impeached for PERJURY. A FELONY offense. See if you can get a government job with a federal offense on your record. See how it goes if you perjure yourself, you'd be happy just to be disbarred. But I digress.

.


this i already know, but it was the reason behind it. there was no need for them to put him on trial for having an affair, that is not a felony crime in case you didnt know.

[Exile_In_SJ]

extremely off topic, but has LABF ever posted on a football thread?

and who was Wags over at DPO?

Who was the guy always complaining about the stadium tax for invesco?

[Northman]

ive never seen LABF post in the bronco forum. as for the others i have no idea.

[Spider]

I'll discuss anything you want, I like seeing you get abused..

And apparently George Elliot stands by his original view.. Whether he lied, or Kerry lied, is not for you or me to decide. And really they haven't destroyed themselves at all. They put out a point of view and practiced their right of free speech, just like any 527 is allowed to.
LOL .Nice try and yes it is for us to decide , AFTERALL WE ARE VOTING FOR PRESIDENT OF THE USA ,Ya goofball

[RaiderH8r]

hmmm, Anubis ( Eygptian god worshipped by Eygptians ) = Fact
Zyklon ( Gas used to exterminate Jews by Hitler, also a name of a Metal Band ) = also fact.


am i missing something here? its all ok though Exile, i would rather spend my energy argueing with the chief trolls than on a fellow bronco fan so no hard feelings. 8')
Actually, they used Zyklon B, just a technicality. Knowitall

[Exile_In_SJ]

well whether you disagree about why he was impeached, he did lie under oath and they couldn't let it go. It would set a bad precedent if you allowed the nations top official to get away with lying under oath. So in a sense, Bill, (whom I voted for) did it to himself twice over, he should have kept his pecker where it belongs, with Hillary... and he shouldn't have lied under oath. He knew the consequences....

[Northman]

Actually, they used Zyklon B, just a technicality. Knowitall


your right, thank you. :gus:

[RaiderH8r]

this i already know, but it was the reason behind it. there was no need for them to put him on trial for having an affair, that is not a felony crime in case you didnt know.
I'm well aware. But perjury is a felony crime, in case you didn't know. I didn't create the system and nobody is above it, so Billy boy should have been telling the truth just as every other citizen in this nation is to do in that position. Incidentally, it would have all been avoided had he just honored his marriage vows.

Anyway, that is a digression. Methinks this thread has just about run its course barring new information. Time to start the Rick James is Dead B!tch thread.

[Northman]

well whether you disagree about why he was impeached, he did lie under oath and they couldn't let it go. It would set a bad precedent if you allowed the nations top official to get away with lying under oath. So in a sense, Bill, (whom I voted for) did it to himself twice over, he should have kept his pecker where it belongs, with Hillary... and he shouldn't have lied under oath. He knew the consequences....


i dont think it would have set a bad precedent. there are exceptions to every rule and this is no different. sure, he should have been punished in some way but impeached? come on. almost 80% of american men would have done the same thing. no one likes to admit when they have cheated on their significant others. he is only human after all.

[Exile_In_SJ]

so in a sense, any candidate or office holder who knowingly does something wrong while in office, gets what they deserve, that goes for Bob Packwood (R) as well as Bill Clinton (D).

To not know that the opposition is out to get you, whether you are democrat or republican shows a lack of something.. smarts, commn sense..

Just like Trent Lott, I think it was overblown a bit, but he did it to himself by not thinking before he said something. You have to know that in politics, all sides are like sharks waiting to smell blood in the water...,

[Northman]

I'm well aware. But perjury is a felony crime, in case you didn't know. I didn't create the system and nobody is above it, so Billy boy should have been telling the truth just as every other citizen in this nation is to do in that position. Incidentally, it would have all been avoided had he just honored his marriage vows.

Anyway, that is a digression. Methinks this thread has just about run its course barring new information. Time to start the Rick James is Dead B!tch thread.


unfortuantely, perfection isnt in human nature. every human is falliable. ( sp? )

[Exile_In_SJ]

even saying that, some are immune no matter what they say.. Robert Byrd and his white n****r phrase would have been a cooked goose if he had been republican..as it was, he suffered not a bit for his stupidity.

[RaiderH8r]

unfortuantely, perfection isnt in human nature. every human is falliable. ( sp? )
Indeed. However, politics is like oral sex. One slip of the tongue and you're in deep sh!t.

[Northman]

so in a sense, any candidate or office holder who knowingly does something wrong while in office, gets what they deserve, that goes for Bob Packwood (R) as well as Bill Clinton (D).

To not know that the opposition is out to get you, whether you are democrat or republican shows a lack of something.. smarts, commn sense..

Just like Trent Lott, I think it was overblown a bit, but he did it to himself by not thinking before he said something. You have to know that in politics, all sides are like sharks waiting to smell blood in the water...,


oh, i remember him well. he was spearheading the attacks on clintons character and i was overjoyed when they released the info on his extramarital affairs. but again, this is why politics are just plain lousy. we use politics as a instrument to try and judge people and make them sound like they need to be perfect. it just doesnt exist. sure, you can say that Clinton should have never had the affair but those things happen. to somehow warrant that Clintons lying about a personal issue was the same as Nixon's atrocity against the american people is ludicrous. even you have to admit that guys. right?

[Exile_In_SJ]

Indeed. However, politics is like oral sex. One slip of the tongue and you're in deep sh!t.


that's why you attack from the top of the canoe..er.. withdrawn your honor...

[Northman]

Indeed. However, politics is like oral sex. One slip of the tongue and you're in deep sh!t.


lmao! Rep. Hilarious!

[Exile_In_SJ]

Nixons problem was that he tried to cover up for others. he didn't order the events or initiate them, but he tried to hide them. That was his problem, that and being extremely paranoid..

[RaiderH8r]

oh, i remember him well. he was spearheading the attacks on clintons character and i was overjoyed when they released the info on his extramarital affairs. but again, this is why politics are just plain lousy. we use politics as a instrument to try and judge people and make them sound like they need to be perfect. it just doesnt exist. sure, you can say that Clinton should have never had the affair but those things happen. to somehow warrant that Clintons lying about a personal issue was the same as Nixon's atrocity against the american people is ludicrous. even you have to admit that guys. right?
DC is a different world. It seems everybody believes in order to gain a little power it has to be taken from somewhere. It's a finite resource. Walk softly in the lion's den and such. One drop of blood and they will feed.

[Exile_In_SJ]

3 presidents fell short on my list, fell short of what I expected of them. Nixon, though I was too young to vote then. he shoud have not covered it up and then he could have lopped a few heads off (figuratively speaking) and salvaged the rest of his term..

Bush the first, when he promised no new taxes and then raised taxes. You don't make a promise like that and then break it. He should have never said that.

And then Willian Clinton. When you are the leader of the free world and married, you need to practice a bit of self control.

With Nixon and Clinton, there was the natural desire not to get caught, but their actions damaged them both... And with GB the elder, don't make promises you can't keep..

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

I'm sure that Exile will make his way over to this thread to apologize for some of his statements impugning the reputation of an American war hero.

Hilarious!

Too funny.

BTW, aside from the obvious political motives, I'd wager Unka Karl decided to hire Nixon's Smear Boat Veterans because dubya was jealous.

Jealous, that is, because Kerry has a silver star, a bronze star, and three purple hearts, whereas the only medal AWOL Boy ever won was the Pabst Blue Ribbon. ;)

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

"When the chips were down, you could not count on John Kerry."

--Larry Thurlow, a Vietnam vet who didn't serve with Kerry, (none of the 13 vets in the
hate ad served on Kerry's boat)

Let's see - one man was in Vietnam earning medals for bravery while the other was drunk in Mexico going thru cocaine and hookers like Rush went thru Oxycotin.

Who would you rather be in a foxhole with?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

McCain Condemns Anti-Kerry Ad

"It was the same kind of deal that was pulled on me..."

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040805/ap_on_el_pr/kerry_mccain_5

John McCain called an ad criticizing John Kerry's military service "dishonest and dishonorable" and urged the White House on Thursday to condemn it as well.

The White House declined.

"It was the same kind of deal that was pulled on me," McCain told the AP, comparing the ad to the viscious back-stabbing the BFEE put on him in South Carolina four years ago. "I can't believe the president would pull such a cheap stunt."

I can't believe it either, Senator McCain, but I guess we have to consider the source.

Chickenhawks like Karl Rove and George W. Bush can't be possibly be expected to understand concepts like honor and service to country.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

How long before the junkie reminds his followers how McCain hates America?

http://www.bartcop.com/rush-oxy-hustler.jpg

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

http://www.bartcopnation.com/dc/user_files/9514.jpg

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

David Brock nails the Free-Republic/Smear-boat connection

http://mediamatters.org/items/200408060010

[Spider]

Swift Boat Vets chairman's evolving story about knowing Kerry in Vietnam



Retired Adm. Roy Hoffmann, chairman and co-founder of Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, has changed his story about whether or not he actually knew Senator John Kerry in Vietnam.

May 6: "Hoffman acknowledged he had no first-hand knowledge to discredit Kerry's claims to valor and said that although Kerry was under his command, he really didn't know Kerry much personally." http://www.jsonline.com/news/metro/may04/227671.asp?format=print

August 4: "'I knew him well enough to know him," Hoffman said. 'He's the most vain individual I've ever met - aloof and arrogant.'" http://www.shns.com/shns/g_index2.cfm?action=detail&pk=KERRY-MEDALS-08-04-04
August 5: Hoffman said, "We were on the same operations, we were operating within 25-50 yards of him all the time, and for them to suggest we don't know John Kerry is pure old bull." http://www.nytimes.com/auth/login?URI=http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/05/politics/campaign/05veterans.html

August 5: In response to Senator John McCain's (R-AZ) denunciation of the ad, Hoffman "said they respected McCain's 'right to express his opinion and we hope he extends to us the same respect and courtesy, particularly since we served with John Kerry, we knew him well and Sen. McCain did not.'" http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/news/archive/2004/08/05/politics1020EDT0544.DTL&type=printable

August 5: Hoffman said, "I knew him well, because I operated very closely with him and, uh, many of the operations, uh, most of the operations were-were conducted with multiple boats" - a dramatic shift from admitting no personal knowledge of Kerry three months earlier; it went unchallenged by his host. [ABC Radio's Sean Hannity Show]

In the Swift Boat Veterans' ad, Hoffman states, "John Kerry has not been honest." Well, he should know.
http://mediamatters.org/items/200408060011

Like I said earlier , they are destroying themselfs before they get started ........

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Regnery Publishing Co. (the publisher of the Smear Boat Weasel book) is a conduit for right wing sewage . That's their be-all and end-all. They are really a vanity press for mud-slinging right-wing nutjobs such as Ann Coulter.

The way it works is Regnery publishes scandalous, sensationalist right-wing bilge as they see fit. Then right wing foundations and assorted right-wing sugar daddies bulk purchase thousands of copies to give away to their membership as booby prizes, use as doorstops, or throw in a dumpster or whatever. Those "advance sales" drive the book up the best seller charts.

The "best-selling" book then gets a lot of play by wingnut talk circuit bozos such as Matt Sludge and is touted as a real masterpiece worthy of serious consideration. The authors then make the rounds of the punditry circuit as guests .

In short , like most things right-wing , it's all bullsh*t.

Take note that Texas real estate developer Bob Perry "donated" ( paid off) 100 grand to the "Swift Boat Veterans For Truth" from whence sprang the slime book that Regnery published.

These "concerned veterans," altruistic princes all, will all make out handsomely from the book's royalties and from appearance fees on the fascist rubber chicken circuit.

The Swift Boat Veteran Smear Goons For "Truth" are nothing but highly paid right-wing slimeballs.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

This all strikes me as desperation. In addition to these to "Swift Boat Veterans" who are clearly nothing but an Ed Gillespie organized smear campaign, everybody from Team Bush is repeating the line that Kerry "only was in Vietnam for four months." Can people really be that stupid to buy this kind of spin on a guy's service in a war? Let Karl or Ed serve "only four months" doing patrols in the Sunni Triangle hiding from RPGs and IEDs. But, the point is, I think most people expected the Bushies and their affiliated sleaze peddlers to concede the Vietnam thing to Kerry and try to act above the issue. At least look respectful of the guy's military service while focusing on the current challenges facing the nation and a plan for the next 4 years. I guess not. I'm sure the drooling base of the GOP will eat this up and also tell you it isn't really Bush pushing this but independent groups outside the campaign, but if you aren't a part of that choir, this has to revolt you and you know who this sh*t is coming from. Whether Kerry was Rambo or not, he served in a hellish war and trying to say he didn't deserve his medals or didn't serve more than 4 months has got to strike moderate swing voters as utterly beyond any sense of decency. How many of them have kids who won medals or served less that 4 months in Iraq? Do they think their service should be denigrated?

Not to count chickens before they are hatched, but given that Kerry is taking on Bush on national security and terrorism (and Bush's numbers are going down on both) while Bush is trying to make fun of Kerry's Vietnam record, I like the lay of the land for this campaign. For once, we're fighting on their turf while they are desperately trying to keep their base motivated. Going after Kerry's service record is either a sign of an undisciplined campaign, a group that is out of touch with real American values, or utter desperation.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

http://www.bartcopnation.com/dc/user_files/9522.jpg

[watermock]

I want to shoot Charlie in the back and get a silver star too.