Post-Convention Zogby :)

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

The Chimp is FUCT.

http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=849

Excerpts:

Mr. Bush has also shown weakness in what is considered to be his best region, the South. While Kerry’s choice of Senator John Edwards gives him his biggest boost, his economic populism and courting of veterans are also key in his eroding of Mr. Bush’s support. Not only has Kerry now come to a tie with Bush in favorability in the South (55% for both), the Kerry-Edwards ticket has pulled ahead, 48% to 46% in the South. President Bush’s job performance is down to only 44% in the South, and only 43% of Southerners think the country is headed in the right direction.

Mr. Kerry is also performing well in Blue states, among Young voters and among Single voters. In the Blue states, Mr. Kerry is winning 50% to 38%, while in the Red States, Mr. Bush is only winning 48% to 46%. Among Single voters, Mr. Kerry is winning huge by a total of 69% to 19%. And among young voters – 18-29 year olds – a group Al Gore only won by 2 points in 2000, Kerry is winning in a landslide, 53% to 33%.

There are three factors contributing to Senator Kerry’s lead in the electorate; first is President Bush’s eroding base, second is his failure in outreach to swing groups and base Democratic constituencies, and third is Mr. Kerry’s strengthening of his base. Mr. Kerry also has the potential to open a bigger lead in two areas. First, among the undecided voters, if Mr. Kerry can sell himself as a viable alternative to Mr. Bush, he stands to make large gains amongst the small, but significant chuck of undecideds. Second is in the turnout arena, Mr. Kerry’s large leads amongst Hispanics.


Hang it up George, You're Over.

[BroncoMatt]

I'm going to have to give this poll some bounce, lots of people are pumped after the convention. I remain optimistic that Bush is gone but I am not going to put alot into any polls until we have some debates.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Good point(s), Matt.

As for me, I can't wait for those debates! I just hope they're not rigged in advance. Everyone knows that's the only way Junior can win at anything.

BTW, great avatar and sig!

[Crushaholic]

I expected Kerry to get a boost after the convention. That's almost standard operating procedure. Bush should get a post-convention bounce after the Republican Convention. That bounce will be more important because it's closer to the election. Nnyah!

[watermock]

How amusing. Wait till they start playing Kerry's clips. That's the bounce you anticipated after Cry for Me Argentina and Kerry tried to reinvent himself as a moderate?

The bump wasn't what they wanted. It did manage to capture the Van Halen crowd.

[Crushaholic]

I still think it's hilarious that the biggest story coming out of the convention was the convention director using profanity because the balloons didn't drop on time. ROFL!

[watermock]

The whole affair was coreographed. It was like the frenchman on "Father of the Bride"

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

I still think it's hilarious that the biggest story coming out of the convention was the convention director using profanity because the balloons didn't drop on time.

If this is the "biggest story" you've heard, then you must be watching Faux News exclusively.

Personally, I find that "hilarious."

Kerry tried to reinvent himself as a moderate?

"Re-invent" himself? You're familiar with his voting record in the Senate and you don't believe he's already a "moderate?"

I guess this only goes to show just how far to the extreme, loony right you and your fellow bush lemmings and neocons currently reside.

The whole affair was coreographed(sic)

And you think the repuke convention won't be?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

http://www.allhatnocattle.net/bush_father_son.gif
http://www.bartcop.com/one-term-loser.gif

[watermock]

"Re-invent" himself? You're familiar with his voting record in the Senate and you don't believe he's already a "moderate?"

I guess it depends on your definition doesn't it LABF.

I would ponder this to LABF.

Who is more liberal than Kerry?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

More good news:

Bush is in deep trouble: An analysis of the post-convention Zogby poll

http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=849

The most recent Zogby poll shows deeper trouble for President George W. Bush beyond just the horserace. Mr. Bush has fallen in key areas while Senator John Kerry has shored up numerous constituencies in his base. The Bush team's attempted outreach to base Democratic and swing constituency has shown to be a failure thus far, limiting his potential growth in the electorate.

The most important group in this election now is the undecideds and Mr. Bush's standing among them is weak. He is generally well liked among the undecideds, having a strong favorability (56%), but his job performance is another story. Only 32% approve of Bush's job in office and only 31% believe the country is headed in the right direction. The undecideds are not yet sold on Mr. Kerry, with only 49% having a favorable opinion of him. But Mr. Kerry can still sell his message to them: over a quarter (28%) are either not familiar enough or are not sure of their opinion yet. These undecided voters are generally dissatisfied with the President, but are still not acquainted enough with the Senator from Massachusetts to support him.

The Bush campaign's efforts to court voters in the Hispanic, Jewish, and Catholic communities seem to have fallen flat. Mr. Kerry is leading Mr. Bush by a similar margin to that which former Vice-President Al Gore won among Jewish voters in 2000. Mr. Bush is also running far behind his 2000 Hispanic total, with only 19% of the Hispanic voters supporting him, while Mr. Kerry is beating Mr. Gore's total with 69%. Mr. Kerry is also running very strong among Catholics, topping Mr. Bush, 52% to 37%, showing that not only has Bush's courting of them failed, but his use of wedge issues like gay marriage and partial birth abortion have failed to separate Catholic voters from Kerry.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Some Republicans defect to Kerry's camp

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=%2Fnm%2Fcampaign_crossovers_dc

CHICAGO (Reuters) - Ohio resident Bob Stewart says of President Bush: "He's been a world-class polarizer. I don't know if I can stomach four more years with him as president. He misled us into the war in Iraq and has mismanaged everything since."

A raging Democrat? No, Stewart is a Republican, one of an unknown number of such voters who plan to back John Kerry, out of despair over the war in Iraq and disappointment over budget deficits and social policies.

It remains to be seen whether they can tip the scales in hotly contested middle American states like Ohio as the Democratic nominee courts them and battles Bush in the final three-month dash to November's election. In past elections defections from both parties have sometimes canceled each other out.

Kerry and running mate John Edwards kicked off that fight on Friday, leaving Boston and the concluded party convention for a two-week campaign swing across 21 states.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Quotes

"Clearly the job of president is over Bush's head.
He has proven himself to be dangerously incompetent...
Bush's reelection depends entirely on willful ignorance.
He might well ride the sea of ignorance right back into
the White House. It would not be the first time Americans
have chosen the demagogue over the competent."

--Charley Reese

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Quotes

"He's been a world-class polarizer. I don't know if I can stomach four more years with him as president. He misled us into the war in Iraq and has mismanaged everything
since. I just have a gut feeling that Kerry can be trusted to make the right courageous
decisions and will make a good president. He showed that with his heroism in Vietnam."

--Ohio Republican Bob Stewart

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/nm/20040730/ts_nm/campaign_crossovers_dc

[watermock]

How funny, you imply it's someone even remotely relevant. This is someone who voted Republican that is considering voting Democrat.
How amusing.

Go check the latest Gallup Poll Dimwit. People could see Kerry was a fake, the Speilberg docudrama sealed his fate.

Gosh, a Democrat promising the world on a twinkie. How typical.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Go check the latest Gallup Poll Dimwit.

Go check the latest Zogby Poll, dumbass

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Quotes

"I always voted Republican before but I'm against Bush ever since
I found out that he doesn't love this country. His so-called military
record is a sham. And the worst part is that he lies so much. He lied
about weapons of mass destruction."

--Ron King, a Republican and Vietnam Veteran

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/nm/20040730/ts_nm/campaign_crossovers_dc

[watermock]

So what? It's someone voting for Kerry.

Whatever the Zogby poll is, god knows.

The point is this dimwit, the Republican Convention hasn't even started for another month and the Gallup poll shows a Kerry decline. Don't blame the messenger.

I said before the polls are meaningless except for bandwagoners like you. The poll was very surprising tho.

[watermock]

Two Columnists from Newsday minimizing the poll that is allready older than the Gallup poll?

I am not going to fight polls and surveys. I said wait till after the Republican Convention.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Quotes

"They (the Democrats) succeeded in defining themselves as the mainstream party – and they really are, compared to the extremist Bush administration. The Bush people truly are the radicals these days. In fact this may be the most reactionary presidency in 100 years. And the Democrats are succeeding in defining it that way, and this message is starting to resonate with the public."

--Carl Bernstein

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

http://www.electoral-vote.com/

Kerry: 289

Bush: 232

[Rohirrim]

At this point, I don't know which polls to believe. I'm still thinking that this election is a dead heat. Even if that is the case, for an incumbent to be in tie with a challenger is bad news for the incumbent.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

http://www.electoral-vote.com/

Kerry: 289

Bush: 232

A lot of those are based off of Zogby polls. Zogby is using online polling to get his battleground results. That doesn't breed great accuracy when people sign-up online and the only way the data is confirmed is a Zogby rep calling the individual and asking if their information is correct. He's also now begun to address partisan Democratics like he did to the Arizona delegates at the DNC. That's not exactly an independent pollster.

For the AZ delegates address:

http://www.azcentral.com/news/election/president/articles/0729dem-arizona29.html

While Zogby seems to be a couple points more Democratic then other polls taken at the same time, I only have a problem with 2 of the states on that map.

Arizona- a poll using likely voters from 7-12/7-14 showed Bush up 12, while the one that is apparently used in this map is from 7-15/7-17 has Kerry up 1 and does not disclose who the sample is and it has a larger MOE. That is also only the second poll taken in AZ that has showed Kerry up and the previous was 2 pts back in the middle of February. The previous 3 AZ polls had Bush up 12.

Tennessee is not in play.

That puts the map at 268-253 Kerry with both Missouri and Nevada at less then 1% to Kerry and 2 other states that are tied.

Oh well, polls are really worthless until a few weeks after the RNC and the debates are about to begin. At that point any "bounces" from both conventions will have worked themselves out of polling results.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

New Poll gives Kerry Lead: Kerry 50, Bush 44, Nader 2

Washington Post-ABC News Poll Shows Voters Favor Kerry 50-44

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A34914-2004Aug2.html

http://www.EvolveFISH.com/fish/media/S-ReDefeatBush.jpg

[watermock]

So what? It's still the smallest bump since McGovern.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

http://www.bartcop.com/bart_ad12.gif

[Hercules Rockefeller]

New Poll gives Kerry Lead: Kerry 50, Bush 44, Nader 2

Washington Post-ABC News Poll Shows Voters Favor Kerry 50-44

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A34914-2004Aug2.html


Try 49-47 among likely voters, which is the better indicator.

[Blueflame]

Try 49-47 among likely voters, which is the better indicator.

I'm not sure that's a better indicator this time, HR. Of course, it might seem that way to Bush supporters. LOL

[Rascal]

I put as much stock into all these polls as I would if a squaw fan said they were going to win the SB--None.

The only poll that matters is when the votes have been counted. Until then this is meaningless dribble laced with bs.

[Old Dude]

"Mr. Kerry is showing a 2-to-1 lead (50% to 25%) amongst voters who didn’t vote in 2000 ..."

But will they vote this time?

It's one thing to answer the phone. It's something else to drag your ass out of bed, put on your jacket, and go stand in line for 30 minutes, assuming that you even know where to vote.

"[A]mong young voters – 18-29 year olds – a group Al Gore only won by 2 points in 2000, Kerry is winning in a landslide, 53% to 33%."

See above. I'm not much in touch with kids these days, but the few I know seem to be concerned about being drafted. I suspect that has more to do with it than the M-TV pitch, but what the hell do I know.

It's a crime, by statute, for me to talk to anyone under 21.

[Arkie]

Who is more liberal than Kerry?

That's a difficult question. I believe there are three senators more liberal. It's funny that LABF couldn't name anybody more liberal. Ha! I'm not saying that being liberal is bad, it's just that LABF and others are trying to say Kerry is a moderate because they already know he has the liberal vote.

[Blueflame]

That's a difficult question. I believe there are three senators more liberal. It's funny that LABF couldn't name anybody more liberal. Ha! I'm not saying that being liberal is bad, it's just that LABF and others are trying to say Kerry is a moderate because they already know he has the liberal vote.

Kerry's a Democrat; hence, "liberal". Bush, on the other hand, billed himself as a moderate ("compassionate conservative"), but judging from his actions, his true ideology is far more to the right than that.

[Hogan11]

"Compassionate conservative" is a contradiction in terms.

I read today where the RNC convention is not gonna follow the DNC example and take the high road....Yeah, like that's a surprise...the Springer crowd should be very pleased.

[Rascal]

Compassionate Liberal is a contradiction in terms :TJnPopps:

Yeah the DNC really took the high road...whatever. They might not have said anything directly against Bush but their pokes were evident and obviously intended.

Suprisingly Kerry had enough air to mention some of his platform ideas after his Bush banterring.

Prior to the DNC all that they said was hate bush this hate bush that...and yet they said they were tired of all the attacks. BS. Talk about a bully trying to cry wolf. I don't care if they are going to attack bush, if I was them I would, but shwn they attack him and attack him then come DNC they say were tired of it and yet continue to jab is hypocritical.

[Hogan11]

Compassionate Liberal is a contradiction in terms :TJnPopps:

Yeah the DNC really took the high road...whatever. They might not have said anything directly against Bush but their pokes were evident and obviously intended.

Suprisingly Kerry had enough air to mention some of his platform ideas after his Bush banterring.

Prior to the DNC all that they said was hate bush this hate bush that...and yet they said they were tired of all the attacks. BS. Talk about a bully trying to cry wolf. I don't care if they are going to attack bush, if I was them I would, but shwn they attack him and attack him then come DNC they say were tired of it and yet continue to jab is hypocritical.

JERRY...JERRY....JERRY....JERRY....JERRY!!!

[Hercules Rockefeller]

I'm not sure that's a better indicator this time, HR. Of course, it might seem that way to Bush supporters. LOL

Nice try Blue. Learn a little about polling first. :drown:

There are three different types of groups that can be taken in polls. The first is just simply adults, it doesn't even matter if they're registered to vote. This is considered the least accurate indicator, and very polls actually use this group. Then there's registered voters, whether or not they actually vote is irrelevant. This is considered the second best voter sampling group. Then there are the likely voter categories. This is universally considered the more accurate population sampling to choose from. These are voters who consistently vote in the past and will vote in the future. I doubt you'll find anyone who follows polling that will consider registered voters a better indicator then likely voters.

[Blueflame]

Nice try Blue. Learn a little about polling first. :drown:

There are three different types of groups that can be taken in polls. The first is just simply adults, it doesn't even matter if they're registered to vote. This is considered the least accurate indicator, and very polls actually use this group. Then there's registered voters, whether or not they actually vote is irrelevant. This is considered the second best voter sampling group. Then there are the likely voter categories. This is universally considered the more accurate population sampling to choose from. These are voters who consistently vote in the past and will vote in the future. I doubt you'll find anyone who follows polling that will consider registered voters a better indicator then likely voters.

The problem with the "likely voter" group is that it only takes into account the people who voted in the 2000 presidential election, HR. It's looking like a significant number of Americans who have never voted in the past are registering for this election. The "likely voter" group ignores this demographic, as well as the young voters who have turned 18 since 2000. Polls show that both of these groups heavily favor Kerry, which might explain why one only finds Bush leading in the "likely voter" polls.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

See above. I'm not much in touch with kids these days, but the few I know seem to be concerned about being drafted. I suspect that has more to do with it than the M-TV pitch, but what the hell do I know.

For what it's worth, when I went to see "Fahrenheit 9/11," about 90% of the people in the sold-out show I attended looked to be between 18-30 y.o.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

The problem with the "likely voter" group is that it only takes into account the people who voted in the 2000 presidential election, HR. It's looking like a significant number of Americans who have never voted in the past are registering for this election. The "likely voter" group ignores this demographic, as well as the young voters who have turned 18 since 2000. Polls show that both of these groups heavily favor Kerry, which might explain why one only finds Bush leading in the "likely voter" polls.

Good deflection, but polls also ask how motivated are you to vote or your likelihood of voting in this election. They use questions like that to ensure that those who were unable to vote or didn't vote in previous elections aren't automatically omitted from the likely voter category. The 2000 election is also not the only election that is used to determine likely voters. One election does not a likely voter make; off-year elections, special elections, etc are also looked at.

You can spin all you want Blue, but neither side is going to put more stock in a "registered voter" poll versus a "likely voter" poll.

[Blueflame]

Good deflection, but polls also ask how motivated are you to vote or your likelihood of voting in this election. They use questions like that to ensure that those who were unable to vote or didn't vote in previous elections aren't automatically omitted from the likely voter category. The 2000 election is also not the only election that is used to determine likely voters. One election does not a likely voter make; off-year elections, special elections, etc are also looked at.

You can spin all you want Blue, but neither side is going to put more stock in a "registered voter" poll versus a "likely voter" poll.

There was no "deflection", HR... merely a clarification of what I was referring to in my earlier post.

The point is that those who rely on the "likely voter" polls may be in for a big surprise when the important poll's (Nov.2) results come in... in part due to the new voters who will be participating for the first time. And that's not spin. I personally know several of those "brand new voters". :)

[Hercules Rockefeller]

There was no "deflection", HR... merely a clarification of what I was referring to in my earlier post.

The point is that those who rely on the "likely voter" polls may be in for a big surprise when the important poll's (Nov.2) results come in... in part due to the new voters who will be participating for the first time.

and you're going to be in for a big surprise on election day if you think that "registered voter" polls are going to be more indicitive of what happens. Because I can guarantee you that John Kerry/the DNC are not looking at polls of registered voters. They look at likely voters because they are more likely to vote, hence their categorization.

I've seen the scripts for these polls, they're practically universal regardless of whether it's a local, state, or national race.

Here it goes:

Is the person to whom I'm speaking a registered voter? (if no, is there anyone in the house who is).

If not the call is over. If the poll is simply for registered voters, they will go to their other identifying questions: sex, age, employed(?), etc.

If they want likely voters, the next question is along the lines of:

How likely are you to vote in this upcoming election? Very, somewhat, unsure, not very, won't.

Very and usually somewhat responders are put in the "likely voter" category. That last question sort of covers the recently registered and the new 18 year olds.

[Blueflame]

and you're going to be in for a big surprise on election day if you think that "registered voter" polls are going to be more indicitive of what happens. Because I can guarantee you that John Kerry/the DNC are not looking at polls of registered voters. They look at likely voters because they are more likely to vote, hence their categorization.

I've seen the scripts for these polls, they're practically universal regardless of whether it's a local, state, or national race.

Here it goes:

Is the person to whom I'm speaking a registered voter? (if no, is there anyone in the house who is).

If not the call is over. If the poll is simply for registered voters, they will go to their other identifying questions: sex, age, employed(?), etc.

If they want likely voters, the next question is along the lines of:

How likely are you to vote in this upcoming election? Very, somewhat, unsure, not very, won't.

Very and usually somewhat responders are put in the "likely voter" category. That last question sort of covers the recently registered and the new 18 year olds.

There's the crux of our debate, here, HR... the fact is that all poll numbers, particularly any that are compiled in the summertime... are nothing more than useless fluff. A lot can and will change in the interim between now and November, when the only meaningful poll will take place.

[watermock]

First, LABF was the one to start strutting out polls, now he is defending everyone but Gallup. Fact: In every election that Gallup has done post Democratic Convention, if the Challenger was behind after the convention, the incumbent won the election. That doesn't mean squat in todays world, but it's an indicator.

Another indicator is Ohio and Missouri. Of course Pennsylvania and Florida are also key states.

You have to look at the battleground states. Polls will mean nothing other than I predict another popular vote fiasco vs. Electoral College.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

http://www.bartcop.com/polls5-4sup.gif

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Looks like Bush is losing his base

http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/2004/08/04/news.0804-HT-C1_RDS10449.sto

You have to register and pay for this, but here is a brief summary.

The county fair has a poll every year where fairgoers fill out a form on various issues. They were asked this year who they would vote for president. John Kerry won by 55 percent of the vote with 217 people voting. This is amazing, because fairgoers are supposed to be Bush's base...farmers, country people, blue collar. This is the county fair, not a latte to be found. Cotton candy, demolition derby, 4-H, rodeo, harness racing, kids raising lambs, tractor pulls. They also said by 57 percent that the US was not justified in going to war in Iraq. And 68 percent said that job prospects were worse than they were four years ago. Looks like Kerry ought to campaign in Indiana because there is an opening here. When Bush can't win a poll at a county fair, he is in deep doo-doo.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

..and Bush's appeal to this "base" has to be the most blatantly trumped-up piece of PR in history.

Taking suburban, New England-edjumucated Dubya and buying him a photo opportunity "ranch", with hay bales and tractors and pick-em-up trucks tastefully scattered about for atmosphere, and turning him into the "Texas Rancher".

Can you imagine how the simian Press Corps would be hooting and clanging on the bars of their cages if a Democrat tried this? Hell, they manufacture "issues" to fling at us like monkeysh*t!

[watermock]

..and Bush's appeal to this "base" has to be the most blatantly trumped-up piece of PR in history.

Taking suburban, New England-edjumucated Dubya and buying him a photo opportunity "ranch", with hay bales and tractors and pick-em-up trucks tastefully scattered about for atmosphere, and turning him into the "Texas Rancher".

What a line of crap. He was in the Texas National Guard in 1970 or whenever. I suppose Hillary being able to run for the Senate of NY while she was supposed to be in the White House doesn't bother you at all? She wasn't even from New York whatsoever! Don't go there an embarrass yourself. I doubt Laura Bush is planning her own career while George is getting pizza served with a cigar kicker this weekend while Laura campaigns. God your weak.

Can you imagine how the simian Press Corps would be hooting and clanging on the bars of their cages if a Democrat tried this? Hell, they manufacture "issues" to fling at us like monkeysh*t!

This is more bullshiat. Every president has had his retreat dating back to FDR.

WTF is wrong with you. FDR died at his favorite spot, warm springs. Carter and Clinton liked Camp David, Reagan had his ranch. WTF is wrong with you?

Now, in the age of technology, a President can make a decision thru secure cell anywhere in the world. WTF is wrong with you anyway? Just stupid or Just Stupid?

[Captain_Poncho]

Hell, they manufacture "issues" to fling at us like monkeysh*t!

I'll give Pinhead this much. He knows a great deal about flinging monkeysh*t.

[Exile_In_SJ]

rep to captain poncho

[Exile_In_SJ]

he's a pro at throwing monkeysh*t....Bud salutes the monketsh*t thrower LABF...

[watermock]

This LABF fool is nothing but a child that needs to be taken to the corner.

He is a child that doesn't have even a single imagination of real economics or politik.

[watermock]

It's allready established that his little circle jerk would not prevail.

Monkey's throw Monkey crap. It's all that is available.

I was told I was on ignore, which was so damn funny. I am sure about that deal. He is too damn stupid to hold that deal. And who cares. I still see his crap and have a field day.

At any rate, If I can stop laughing, there are serious issues for our Country. I can't tell you how to vote.

I am in the "To hell with you asshole" block.

I don't like them blowing up our buildings, I don't like them killing our children, I don't like them so much I am ballistic. I don't like them I can barely type. I am really ****ing mad. I have no problem. I will kill them without blinking.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

I'll give Pinhead this much. He knows a great deal about flinging monkeysh*t.

Snapperhead knows a thing or two about flinging sh*t.

Like most conservatives, he doesn't like it when the other side flings his sh*t back at him.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Kerry leads Bush in FL by 7%, WITH Nader in the race."

http://www.americanresearchgroup.com/fl/

John Kerry has taken the lead over George W. Bush among likely voters in Florida according to a survey by the American Research Group. A total of 50% of likely voters say they would vote for Kerry if the presidential election were being held today and 43% say they would vote for Bush. A total of 2% of likely voters say they would vote for Ralph Nader and 5% of likely voters are undecided.

In a ballot question without Nader, 52% of likely voters say they would vote for Kerry and 44% say they would vote for Bush, with 4% of likely voters undecided.

[watermock]

That isn't what this argument is about. It's not about reality, it's about reality.

Look, the AFL/CIO and many other labor organizations are wondering how their dues are being used without their permission.

Hey Dimwit. Ever hear about this?

Wow, the Teamsters and the AFL-CIO both support Kerry and use funds from their union ranks to support the Candidate. Let's call Don Corlenoe.

Many don't like it. They are snuffed.

Got an answer there biatch?

[Spider]

using Dues without Premission ROFL!