Has politics got out of hand ?

[Spider]

:saywhat:

[Spider]

I know I am guilty of going overboard , But Just like the Sandy Berger case , I blasted Berger for what I find a very bad move on his part ............
I truley Believe both Republicans and Democrats march to what they believe is best for this country , and both sides have legitimate issues ........
Mud slinging has always been a part of Politics , but to me there has been boundries broke , Either calling Kerry a Pussy ( mock ) for serving this great country during war , or making fun of Bush ( Spider ) for Air National Guard service ........

[Sideburn]

I agree 100% with you bro. Unfortunately it's not just here, it's nation wide. Honestly, if the American people busted their ass on solving issues with half as much of the effort that we spend arguing over crap that most of us can't change we'd be better off. Oh well, die you pinko commie hippy scumbag!!!

[Spider]

I agree 100% with you bro. Unfortunately it's not just here, it's nation wide. Honestly, if the American people busted their ass on solving issues with half as much of the effort that we spend arguing over crap that most of us can't change we'd be better off. Oh well, die you pinko commie hippy scumbag!!!
Great take you Right wing Waco ..........;D
Oh BTW ..........
Hilarious!

[Rohirrim]

I voted yes, but this is no "new" thing. Sometime read about the Adams/Jefferson campaign. Actually, just about every campaign up to the present. In Lincoln's time, papers would print that his wife was a lunatic.

But hey, like the jib jab website cartoon says, "This land is sure to vote for me." (and not some right wing whacko nut-job)

[Blueflame]

When the vice president drops the f-word on the floor of the Senate, it's a pretty good indication that partisan politics are, indeed, out of hand... and civility is right out the window.

[Sideburn]

Great take you Right wing Waco ..........;D
Oh BTW ..........
Hilarious!
Har har har...how nice of you to tell me that I'm #1

[Spider]

Har har har...how nice of you to tell me that I'm #1
;D

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

When the vice president drops the f-word on the floor of the Senate, it's a pretty good indication that partisan politics are, indeed, out of hand... and civility is right out the window.

Bingo.

People like VP Potty Mouth are setting the tone.

[Rohirrim]

If I was to track this latest bout of poison politics I'd have to trace it back to Lee Atwater and Newt Gingrich.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

If I was to track this latest bout of poison politics I'd have to trace it back to Lee Atwater and Newt Gingrich.

Don't forget to credit their financiers/propaganda coordinators (Scaife, Murdoch, et al.)

And don't forget which party has sponsored Rush the Junkie (and a million other conservative hate radio nutjobs just like him.)

Selling corporate plutocracy and crony capitalism to the great, uneducated, rural white trash masses and calling it "patriotism."

[Hogan11]

If I was to track this latest bout of poison politics I'd have to trace it back to Lee Atwater and Newt Gingrich.

1988 is still the ugliest campaign I have yet seen....this one has the potential to top it.....I have the feeling it will get 10X as nasty as 1988 was....

Why? Because Kerry has vowed to fight back, unlike Dukakis....who took the high road and appeared weak by doing so.

[watermock]

First off, I never called Kerry a Pussy you Pussy.

[watermock]

When the vice president drops the f-word on the floor of the Senate, it's a pretty good indication that partisan politics are, indeed, out of hand... and civility is right out the window.

Bingo.

People like VP Potty Mouth are setting the tone.

Cheney told the idiot to frak off. I found it totaly appropriate.

[RunByDesign]

First off, I never called Kerry a Pussy you Pussy.

You seriously need to grow up.

[Spider]

First off, I never called Kerry a Pussy you Pussy.
Oh I think you have Pussy ........ I wont go search , But I remember a Post somthing about a bet , Faking an Injury for a Medal ....

[Spider]

You seriously need to grow up.
or at least Sober up ......... Mock will remember the post I am talking about when he sobers up

[RunByDesign]

or at least Sober up ......... Mock will remember the post I am talking about when he sobers up

Is that his problem? Is he an alcoholic?

[Spider]

Is that his problem? Is he an alcoholic?
I wonder sometimes ...........

[RunByDesign]

I wonder sometimes ...........
I see...

[Spider]

I see...
you seem to be pretty nuetral in this Shiat throwing contest .........
whats your vote in this Poll ?

[RunByDesign]

you seem to be pretty nuetral in this Shiat throwing contest .........
whats your vote in this Poll ?

Unfortunately, false pretense seems to have begat policy, in todays' politics.

Based on that fact alone, it has gotten out of hand.

Like you said, there has been and always will be mudslinging.

[Spider]

Unfortunately, false pretense seems to have begat policy, in todays' politics.

Based on that fact alone, it has gotten out of hand.

Like you said, there has been and always will be mudslinging.
Fair enough .....

[RunByDesign]

Fair enough .....

As for this particular BB...kinda.

[Spider]

As for this particular BB...kinda.
Well you got to cut us some slack , normaly we have a few Raider fans here telling us how Great the Raiders are and how bad we suck , Now this offseason we havent had Raider fan to kick around so we started kicking each other around ;D
During the Seaon last year we had some Chef fans , but after their Playoff game , they kinda dispursed also ........

[Spider]

And we had the Great Griese debate .We didnt have that this off season .........

[RunByDesign]

LMAO @ Spiders last two posts.

[watermock]

Go on. Show me the Post where I called Kerry a pussy.

13 posts later.

Your all pathetic.

[Spider]

Go on. Show me the Post where I called Kerry a pussy.

13 posts later.

Your all pathetic.
you are not making me feel very special here Mock .............

[Spider]

You realy dont expect me to go searching through your post do you ?
Hell I would have an Easier time going through Iraq and looking for WOMD .......

[watermock]

Kerry is a pussy.

Now go home

[Spider]

Kerry is a pussy.

Now go home
LOL ......... Well since you put it that way ..........

[watermock]

[-Slap-]

1988 is still the ugliest campaign I have yet seen....this one has the potential to top it.....I have the feeling it will get 10X as nasty as 1988 was....

Why? Because Kerry has vowed to fight back, unlike Dukakis....who took the high road and appeared weak by doing so.

People forget that George Bush was up to his neck in Iran Contra dirt and trailing Michael Dukakis by 15 rating points until the Republicans decided to drag the Presidential campaign into the gutter.

Lee Atwater smeared Dukakis by demonizing the word liberal and he convinced a bunch of weak people that Willie Horton was coming to rape white women in their town next.

[watermock]

Yeah, the Repugs made Dukasis ride a tank.

[Spider]

Yeah, the Repugs made Dukasis ride a tank.
Well an unarmed tank .........

[Blueflame]

Cheney told the idiot to frak off. I found it totaly appropriate.

In the venue where it occurred, it was absolutely inappropriate, Mock... Cheney disregarded long-established Senate protocol with his vulgar outburst.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

You realy dont expect me to go searching through your post do you ?
Hell I would have an Easier time going through Iraq and looking for WOMD

LOL

People forget that George Bush was up to his neck in Iran Contra dirt and trailing Michael Dukakis by 15 rating points until the Republicans decided to drag the Presidential campaign into the gutter.

Lee Atwater smeared Dukakis by demonizing the word liberal and he convinced a bunch of weak people that Willie Horton was coming to rape white women in their town next.

Correct on all accounts.

Now I think I understand the significance of your handle:

It must have something to do with slappin' right-wingnuts silly! ;)

Cheney disregarded long-established Senate protocol with his vulgar outburst...

True that is. Isn't it funny how this story seems to have had such a short shelf life on Fox/CNN/MSGOP/CBS/ABC/NBC?

Can you just imagine how different things would have been (as far as the media is concerned) if Clinton or Gore had said "go f*ck yourself" on the senate floor?

There would have been a media feeding frenzy that would still be going on today as we speak and about a gazillion taxpayer-funded investigations.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Speaking of Atwater-style GOP smear jobs:

Joe Wilson Once Again Under Character Assassination Attack by the GOP Junk Yard Dogs: His Response

http://www.buzzflash.com/alerts/04/07/ale04018.html

[watermock]

Point of note.

The senate picture was the only time in session that every member showed up.

[watermock]

Damn, this guy sounds like Clinton. Who appointed this fence walker?

true. The conclusion is apparently based on one anodyne quote from a memo Valerie Plame, my wife sent to her superiors that says “my husband has good relations with the PM (prime minister) and the former Minister of Mines, (not to mention lots of French contacts) both of whom could possibly shed light on this sort of activity.” There is no suggestion or recommendation in that statement that I be sent on the trip. Indeed it is little more than a recitation of my contacts and bona fides

"I did not have sex with the minister of mines, that man is a liar..."

"He is a bona fide contact"

[watermock]

He's so busted it isn't even funny. I saw his wet brow the other day hopping around the real issues.

This guy is as reliable as a torn condom.

He met with O.J.

"Minister, what is your major export?"

"Goat Milk, peas and yellowcake"

"OJ, did you sell yellowcake?"

"Just to Iran and North Korea"

"I believe you...more tea?"

"Please"

"Want some yellowcake with that?"

What do you bet that if Wilson had offered up money for yellowcake, that minister wouldn't of said no problem.

Ask Wilson THAT.

He goes out and has tea and asks the minister if he was selling yellowcake to iraq in direct violation of UN Sancitions.

What did he expect the minister to say?

"Yeah, I guess I was a bad bad boy, you can cuff me in my own country now and drag me in front of the world community for violating international sanctions...gosh darn it...I knew that Saddam sending me a billion dollars was a bad Idea...take me away..."

Wilson is a liar, Sudan is a liar and everything said is true.

[Sideburn]

Well you got to cut us some slack , normaly we have a few Raider fans here telling us how Great the Raiders are and how bad we suck , Now this offseason we havent had Raider fan to kick around so we started kicking each other around ;D
During the Seaon last year we had some Chef fans , but after their Playoff game , they kinda dispursed also ........
This is the most dead-on post I've seen in weeks. This board is a good tool for looking at the overall world population. Sure we could banquish our enemies and achieve peace one day...but then we'll turn on ourselves to feed our natural instinct of war. If this were a work place...we would have started eating the weak.

[Spider]

This is the most dead-on post I've seen in weeks. This board is a good tool for looking at the overall world population. Sure we could banquish our enemies and achieve peace one day...but then we'll turn on ourselves to feed our natural instinct of war. If this were a work place...we would have started eating the weak.
;D

[RaiderH8r]

Well an unarmed tank .........
Thank God, talk about a fish out of water.

[Exile_In_SJ]

When the vice president drops the f-word on the floor of the Senate, it's a pretty good indication that partisan politics are, indeed, out of hand... and civility is right out the window.

Bingo.

People like VP Potty Mouth are setting the tone.



And calling Bush = Hitler is not setting the tone?
When Gore Screeches that Bush betrayed the country , When Byrd goes on a rant, when Teddy Kennedy screeches about Bush, all you can come up with what Cheney justifiably said to Leahy, who's stabbed Cheney in the back so often....

Politics have always been ugly and always will be. Both sides sling the mud, yet only democrats whine about it.

[Exile_In_SJ]

In the venue where it occurred, it was absolutely inappropriate, Mock... Cheney disregarded long-established Senate protocol with his vulgar outburst.


It was in private chambers, so entirely appropriate.

As far as violating established senate protocol, the democrats have violated it by not sending Bushes nominees to the senate for an up or down vote. They're afraid that they'd get a yes vote and so they stonewall, thereby violating tradition and protocol.

[Antilles]

1988 is still the ugliest campaign I have yet seen....this one has the potential to top it.....I have the feeling it will get 10X as nasty as 1988 was....

Why? Because Kerry has vowed to fight back, unlike Dukakis....who took the high road and appeared weak by doing so.


I agree. 1988 was brutal. Those Willie Horton ads were something else. Ahhh Dukakis, you really did Swarthmore proud...

Anyway, I also think this year's election has the potential to trump them all. I posted a Gallup poll a couple of months back that found that the elctorate has reached an unprecedented level of polarization. When people are so diametrically opposed, its tough to have rational, productive discussions. This election is so close, I really think the result is going to depend on who's insults do more to unify and turn out the opposition.

The link is no longer accessable but here is the most pertinent part:

The Partisan Gap in Approval Ratings

In the most recent Gallup Poll, conducted May 21-23, 47% of Americans approve and 49% disapprove of the job Bush is doing as president. That rating is characterized by a wide gulf in the views of Republicans and Democrats -- 89% of Republicans approve of Bush, but just 12% of Democrats do. That 77 percentage-point gap is the highest of Bush's presidency, and the gap between Republicans and Democrats has been 70 points or higher since mid-February.

The impressiveness of this gap is underscored by looking at historical approval ratings for other presidents who were similarly gearing up for a re-election bid. Aside from Bush, Bill Clinton had the largest partisan gap in approval ratings at a comparable point in his presidency, but his 60-point gap from May 1996 is nearly 25% smaller than Bush's. Ronald Reagan is the only other president to have a partisan gap in excess of 50 percentage points in May of his re-election year.

Bush's 70+-point gap is not only unprecedented for May of a re-election year, but it is unprecedented for any point in a re-election year. No president, dating back to Harry Truman, has had a partisan gap above 70 points in any Gallup Poll in a re-election year.

[Exile_In_SJ]

The partisanship is pretty strong. I wonder how it will play out in a few months

[Exile_In_SJ]

I'd be interested to see what those figures are like for Kerry, I'd bet the partisan gap is pretty similar....

[Antilles]

I'd be interested to see what those figures are like for Kerry, I'd bet the partisan gap is pretty similar....

I'd guess the gap would be large, but probably little smaller than Bush's numbers simply because many democrats are less Kerry supporters than they are Anyone but Bush supporters. Its a lot easier to hate Bush than it is to love Kerry.

[Exile_In_SJ]

what I'll be interested in seeing after the election are the numbers of registered voters voting for the other parties candidate. I can see moderate Dems going for Bush, but I can't see many Republicans going for Kerry.

[Old Dude]

I'd be interested to see what those figures are like for Kerry, I'd bet the partisan gap is pretty similar....

I wouldn't be surprised.

Like I've said many times, I think the country is absolutely polarized, and I don't see any of the numbers shifting very much, barring some very extraordinary & dramatic event.

The 5% or so of the electorate that hasn't made up its mind will probably decide the election.

[Antilles]

what I'll be interested in seeing after the election are the numbers of registered voters voting for the other parties candidate. I can see moderate Dems going for Bush, but I can't see many Republicans going for Kerry.

I can't wait for that data. Peronally, I expect the opposite. I can see moderate Republicans who oppose bans on stem cell research, gay marriage amendments, feel the economy has floundered, or are upset with the way Iraq and/or the war on terror have been handled would be willing to stomach Kerry simply because he is not Bush. Speaking as a moderate, its hard to imagine the majority of voters getting passionate about Kerry one way or the other. The same is not true of GWB. You either love him or you hate him, but at least he's a known commodity. Kerry, due to his lower profile and less charismatic personality, does not engender such passion. I think about Clinton- does anyone truly hate, or love, Kerry with the same passion?

Of course, Bush may get the dems who approve of Iraq or think that W is the man for homeland security (probably his most appealing quality to moderates), but I'm not sure how many are out there.

[Blueflame]

I can't wait for that data. Peronally, I expect the opposite. I can see moderate Republicans who oppose bans on stem cell research, gay marriage amendments, feel the economy has floundered, or are upset with the way Iraq and/or the war on terror have been handled would be willing to stomach Kerry simply because he is not Bush. Speaking as a moderate, its hard to imagine the majority of voters getting passionate about Kerry one way or the other. The same is not true of GWB. You either love him or you hate him, but at least he's a known commodity. Kerry, due to his lower profile and less charismatic personality, does not engender such passion. I think about Clinton- does anyone truly hate, or love, Kerry with the same passion?

Of course, Bush may get the dems who approve of Iraq or think that W is the man for homeland security (probably his most appealing quality to moderates), but I'm not sure how many are out there.

My own opinion is that the political climate in America this year is too polarized to expect many "crossover" votes... whether it's Democrats voting for Bush or Republicans voting for Kerry. I think those who identify solidly with either party will stick to the party line.

[Rascal]

My own opinion is that the political climate in America this year is too polarized to expect many "crossover" votes... whether it's Democrats voting for Bush or Republicans voting for Kerry. I think those who identify solidly with either party will stick to the party line.

Yeap. Its the crucial independents and fence huggers that are the key. I think Nader will play a part, but not as big as before.

[Blueflame]

Yeap. Its the crucial independents and fence huggers that are the key. I think Nader will play a part, but not as big as before.

So, what's your opinion of registered Republicans signing petitions to put Nader on the ballot in Michigan? Come November, most of those Republican signers will go to the polls and vote for Bush; not Nader.

[Rascal]

So, what's your opinion of registered Republicans signing petitions to put Nader on the ballot in Michigan? Come November, most of those Republican signers will go to the polls and vote for Bush; not Nader.

I haven't heard that, but then it wouldn't suprise me either. Gotta link?

Assuming its true, I guess it is every American's right to sign a petition. Does that make it dirty politics...yes....illegal...no.

Why are the democrats trying to block Nader from getting on anyway? Its a free election, and illegal to bar people from running. They have been getting close to illegal activities themselves in several states.

Both sides realize the importance that he can play and both sides are willing to get as close to the line as possible to get their desired outcome.

Does it make it right...no, but in an election such as this one, this will hardly be the dirtiest thing to come to light. Its only begun.

[Blueflame]

I haven't heard that, but then it wouldn't suprise me either. Gotta link?

Assuming its true, I guess it is every American's right to sign a petition. Does that make it dirty politics...yes....illegal...no.

Why are the democrats trying to block Nader from getting on anyway? Its a free election, and illegal to bar people from running. They have been getting close to illegal activities themselves in several states.

Both sides realize the importance that he can play and both sides are willing to get as close to the line as possible to get their desired outcome.

Does it make it right...no, but in an election such as this one, this will hardly be the dirtiest thing to come to light. Its only begun.


Here's a link to the story...

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/news/archive/2004/07/19/politics1749EDT0657.DTL

Personally, I don't care if Nader runs or not... he has no chance of actually winning, however (he won't make enough states' ballots). It does appear that he's using questionable tactics (like getting Republicans to sign petitions to put him on the ballot in "battleground" states), which could split the anti-Bush vote and tip the balance in those states. At the same time, he says he wants to defeat Bush, but his actions say the opposite. I think it's time for Ralph to tell the truth and admit that he's actively working to re-elect Bush.

[Exile_In_SJ]

So, what's your opinion of registered Republicans signing petitions to put Nader on the ballot in Michigan? Come November, most of those Republican signers will go to the polls and vote for Bush; not Nader.


I don't have any problem with that, it's no different than the dems helping Ross Perot out and it got Clinton elected.

I have no doubt that if there was a rightist third party candidate that the Dems would do the same.

[Exile_In_SJ]

As a matter of fact, I think more dems should be true to their hearts and vote Green Party.

[Blueflame]

As a matter of fact, I think more dems should be true to their hearts and vote Green Party.

The Green Party declined the opportunity to support Nader this time around.

If he's going to accept Republican signatures in order to get on any states' ballots, Nader should come clean and quit lying about his true goal... it's obvious to all but the most obtuse that he's working for Bush.