Clinton NSA Sandy Berger caught stealing classified documents

[Exile_In_SJ]

From Little Green Footballs..


President Bill Clinton’s former national security adviser Sandy Berger is under investigation for taking highly classified terrorism documents from a secure reading room—and some of those documents are still missing: Clinton Adviser Probed in Terror Memos.

WASHINGTON - President Clinton’s national security adviser, Sandy Berger, is the focus of a criminal investigation after admitting he removed highly classified terrorism documents from a secure reading room during preparations for the Sept. 11 commission hearings, The Associated Press has learned.

Berger’s home and office were searched earlier this year by FBI agents armed with warrants. Some drafts of a sensitive after-action report on the Clinton administration’s handling of al-Qaida terror threats during the December 1999 millennium celebration are still missing.

Berger and his lawyer said Monday night he knowingly removed handwritten notes he had taken from classified anti-terror documents he reviewed at the National Archives by sticking them in his jacket and pants. He also inadvertently took copies of actual classified documents in a leather portfolio, they said.

“I deeply regret the sloppiness involved, but I had no intention of withholding documents from the commission, and to the contrary, to my knowledge, every document requested by the commission from the Clinton administration was produced,” Berger said in a statement to the AP.

UPDATE at 7/19/04 5:20:19 pm:

Please note this little tossed-off phrase in the middle of the AP’s story:

Berger served as Clinton’s national security adviser for all of the president’s second term and most recently has been informally advising Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry.




I wonder why he took those documents? So he could see the dirt on Clinton and help prepare Clintons spin?

Tough week or so for democrat operatives, first Joe Wilson is shown to be a liar and now Clinton's NSA is accused of taking classified material, some of which is still missing..

[Sideburn]

Yeah I just saw this on the news....hmmmmmm

[Northman]

From Little Green Footballs..


President Bill Clinton’s former national security adviser Sandy Berger is under investigation for taking highly classified terrorism documents from a secure reading room—and some of those documents are still missing: Clinton Adviser Probed in Terror Memos.

WASHINGTON - President Clinton’s national security adviser, Sandy Berger, is the focus of a criminal investigation after admitting he removed highly classified terrorism documents from a secure reading room during preparations for the Sept. 11 commission hearings, The Associated Press has learned.

Berger’s home and office were searched earlier this year by FBI agents armed with warrants. Some drafts of a sensitive after-action report on the Clinton administration’s handling of al-Qaida terror threats during the December 1999 millennium celebration are still missing.

Berger and his lawyer said Monday night he knowingly removed handwritten notes he had taken from classified anti-terror documents he reviewed at the National Archives by sticking them in his jacket and pants. He also inadvertently took copies of actual classified documents in a leather portfolio, they said.

“I deeply regret the sloppiness involved, but I had no intention of withholding documents from the commission, and to the contrary, to my knowledge, every document requested by the commission from the Clinton administration was produced,” Berger said in a statement to the AP.

UPDATE at 7/19/04 5:20:19 pm:

Please note this little tossed-off phrase in the middle of the AP’s story:

Berger served as Clinton’s national security adviser for all of the president’s second term and most recently has been informally advising Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry.




I wonder why he took those documents? So he could see the dirt on Clinton and help prepare Clintons spin?

Tough week or so for democrat operatives, first Joe Wilson is shown to be a liar and now Clinton's NSA is accused of taking classified material, some of which is still missing..



hmm, very interesting. you think this had something to do with 9/11 in anyway?

[Exile_In_SJ]

huh? I doubt it had anythig to do with 9/11... what I think it was, was the documents lifted were unflattering to Clinton in his dealings about terrorism and Berger took them to help Clinton prepare his spin, if and when the information comes out.

[Northman]

huh? I doubt it had anythig to do with 9/11... what I think it was, was the documents lifted were unflattering to Clinton in his dealings about terrorism and Berger took them to help Clinton prepare his spin, if and when the information comes out.



i must behind on the news regarding Clinton. why would they be confronting him about Terrorism now? my question about 9/11 was just whether or not he knew anything about threats that were made during his tenure. i just dont see the relevance (sp?) of this after all this time.

[Exile_In_SJ]

WASHINGTON - President Clinton’s national security adviser, Sandy Berger, is the focus of a criminal investigation after admitting he removed highly classified terrorism documents from a secure reading room during preparations for the Sept. 11 commission hearings, The Associated Press has learned.

since the majority of the planning for 9/11 was done under the Clinton years, and classified documents were taken intended for the 9/11 commission, this has relevence because Sandy Berger might be trying to cover Clintons tracks. Why else would he take the classified documents. He's acknowledged he did.

[Exile_In_SJ]

of course I admit it's supposition on my part. But it'll come out eventually why Berger would take classified documents.

[Northman]

WASHINGTON - President Clinton’s national security adviser, Sandy Berger, is the focus of a criminal investigation after admitting he removed highly classified terrorism documents from a secure reading room during preparations for the Sept. 11 commission hearings, The Associated Press has learned.

since the majority of the planning for 9/11 was done under the Clinton years, and classified documents were taken intended for the 9/11 commission, this has relevence because Sandy Berger might be trying to cover Clintons tracks. Why else would he take the classified documents. He's acknowledged he did.


ah, ok. i see it now. i read over it too fast.

[Spider]

Rack his ass ....... Nail the Biatch to the wall .....
Bastard shouldnt have been able go in the same room as the Documents ......
The 9-11 commision is bigger then Democrats and Republicans , It is about how to prevent futher attacks ......... Screwing over or removing information for political reasons , that would help the commision , is treason ......
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5463586
By John Solomon
The Associated Press
Updated: 10:28 p.m. ET July 19, 2004WASHINGTON - President Clinton’s national security adviser, Sandy Berger, is the focus of a Justice Department investigation after removing highly classified terrorism documents and handwritten notes from a secure reading room during preparations for the Sept. 11 commission hearings, The Associated Press has learned.


Berger’s home and office were searched earlier this year by FBI agents armed with warrants after he voluntarily returned documents to the National Archives. However, still missing are some drafts of a sensitive after-action report on the Clinton administration’s handling of al-Qaida terror threats during the December 1999 millennium celebration.

Berger and his lawyer said Monday night he knowingly removed handwritten notes he had made while reading classified anti-terror documents at the archives by sticking them in his jacket and pants. He also inadvertently took copies of actual classified documents in a leather portfolio, they said.

“I deeply regret the sloppiness involved, but I had no intention of withholding documents from the commission, and to the contrary, to my knowledge, every document requested by the commission from the Clinton administration was produced,” Berger said in a statement to the AP.

Lanny Breuer, one of Berger’s attorneys, said his client has offered to cooperate fully with the investigation but had not yet been interviewed by the FBI or prosecutors. Berger has been told he is the subject of the criminal investigation, Breuer said.

There are federal laws strictly governing the handling of classified information, including prohibiting the unauthorized release or removal of such materials.

Berger served as Clinton’s national security adviser for all of the president’s second term and most recently has been informally advising Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry. Clinton asked Berger last year to review and select the administration documents that would be turned over to the commission.

The FBI searches of Berger’s home and office occurred after National Archives employees told agents they believed they saw Berger place documents in his clothing while reading sensitive Clinton administration papers and that some documents were then noticed missing, officials said.

When asked, Berger said he returned some classified documents that he found in his office and all of the handwritten notes he had taken from the secure room, but could not locate two or three copies of the highly classified millennium terror report.

“In the course of reviewing over several days thousands of pages of documents on behalf of the Clinton administration in connection with requests by the Sept. 11 commission, I inadvertently took a few documents from the Archives,” Berger said.

“When I was informed by the Archives that there were documents missing, I immediately returned everything I had except for a few documents that I apparently had accidentally discarded,” he said.

Breuer said Berger believed he was looking at copies of the classified documents, not originals.

NBC News
Panel won’t say whether 9/11 could have been stopped




Berger was allowed to take handwritten notes but also knew that taking his own notes out of the secure reading room was a “technical violation of Archive procedures, but it is not all clear to us this represents a violation of the law,” Breuer said.

Government and congressional officials familiar with the investigation, who spoke only on condition of anonymity because the probe involves classified materials, said the investigation remains active and no decision has been made on whether Berger should face criminal charges.

The officials said the missing documents were highly classified, and included critical assessments about the Clinton administration’s handling of the millennium terror threats as well as identification of America’s terror vulnerabilities at airports and seaports.

Berger testified at one of the commission’s public hearings about the Clinton administration’s approach to fighting terrorism. The former president answered the panel’s questions at a private meeting.

The former national security adviser himself had ordered his anti-terror czar Richard Clarke in early 2000 to write the after-action report and has spoken publicly about how the review brought to the forefront the realization that al-Qaida had reached America’s shores and required more attention.

Berger testified that during the millennium period, “we thwarted threats and I do believe it was important to bring the principals together on a frequent basis” to consider terror threats more regularly.

The missing documents involve two or three draft versions of the report as it was evolving and being refined by the Clinton administration, officials and lawyers say. The Archives is believed to have copies of some of the missing documents.

In the FBI search of his office, Berger also was found in possession of a small number of classified note cards containing his handwritten notes from the Middle East peace talks during the 1990s, but those are not a focus of the current criminal probe, officials and lawyers said.

Breuer said the Archives staff first raised concerns with Berger during an Oct. 2 review of documents that at least one copy of the post-millennium report he had reviewed earlier was missing. Berger was given a second copy that day, Breuer said.

Officials familiar with the investigation said Archives staff specially marked the documents and when the new copy and others disappeared, Archives officials called Clinton attorney Bruce Lindsey to report the disappearance.

Berger immediately returned all the notes he had taken, and conducted a search and located two copies of the classified documents on a messy desk in his office, Breuer said. An Archives official came to Berger’s home to collect those documents but Berger couldn’t locate the other missing copies, the lawyer said.

He retained counsel, and in January the FBI executed search warrants of a safe at Berger’s home as well as his business office where he found some of the documents. Agents also failed to locate the missing documents.

Justice Department officials have told the Sept. 11 commission of the Berger incident and the nature of the documents in case commissioners wanted more information, officials said. The commission is expected to release its final report Thursday.

Congressional intelligence committees, however, have not been formally notified.

“The House Intelligence Committee has not been informed on the loss or theft of any classified intelligence information from the Archives, but we will follow up and get the information that is appropriate for the committee to have,” the committee said Monday in a statement. “And if it has occurred, we should be informed. If there has been delay in getting the information to the committee we need to know why.”

Berger is the second high-level Clinton-era official to face controversy over taking classified information home.

Former CIA Director John Deutch was pardoned by Clinton just hours before Clinton left office in 2001 for taking home classified information and keeping it on unsecured computers at his home during his time at the CIA and Pentagon. Deutch was about to enter into a plea agreement for a misdemeanor charge of mishandling government secrets when the pardon was granted.

© 2004 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

[TexanBob]

Kinda reminiscent of Hillary's chief-of-staff leaving Vince Foster's office with a folder full of documents before the police sealed off the scene...

[Spider]

Kinda reminiscent of Hillary's chief-of-staff leaving Vince Foster's office with a folder full of documents before the police sealed off the scene...
::)
Can you say Conspiracy theorist ........... We know Excile can

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Wouldn't make this a partisan thing, you don't "accidentally" walk out of a secure reading room with highly classified docs. He's got to covering someone's ass, but I wouldn't necessarily come to the conclusion it is Clinton's though.

[TexanBob]

Reported elsewhere that the security guards watched him shoving papers down his pants. Accidental??? Yeah, right. But there are still a lot of loose ends here. For one thing, this all took place in October, 2003. Why are they just now informing the public? And if guards saw him shoving papers into his pants and jacket, why did they not stop him and inspect him at the time? Fercryingoutloud, do these guards also work airport security?

There are some things about this story that just don't add up.

[Rascal]

Rack his ass ....... Nail the Biatch to the wall .....
Bastard shouldnt have been able go in the same room as the Documents ......
The 9-11 commision is bigger then Democrats and Republicans , It is about how to prevent futher attacks ......... Screwing over or removing information for political reasons , that would help the commision , is treason ......

REP for spider.

[Exile_In_SJ]

::)
Can you say Conspiracy theorist ........... We know Excile can



who's Excile?

[Exile_In_SJ]

I wonder how the media would be covering this if Condi Rice was stuffing classified document/notes in her bra? There'd be a huge cry about 'classified-gate' and the witch hunt would be on for Condi..

[Exile_In_SJ]

from Instapundit

Ed Morrissey is deconstructing the spin on this: "For my money, that's at least one 'inadvertently' too many, and that is not a literary criticism. Perhaps this explanation will fly for those who have never worked around classified documents, but since I spent three years producing such material, I can tell you that it's impossible to 'inadvertently' take or destroy them. . . . I find it highly suspect that the first expert the Post found to speak on this is Richard Clarke. How many of the partisans will come out of the woodwork? Next, we'll have Joe Wilson come out and claim that the documents never existed in the first place."

[Taco John]

If Berger committed a crime, he should be prosecuted.

I'll bet by the end of the week, the Republicans try to drag Kerry into this... Probably saying something like Berger was stealing the documents for Kerry or something.

And speaking of being prosecuted... Whatever happened to that whole Valerie Plame disgrace? Who got strung up for that treasonous move?

[Old Dude]

Every day that goes by, it gets harder to distinguish between politics, entertainment, sports, and naked fat men chasing sheep down the street.

[Taco John]

I still have an easy time recognizing the latter... ;)

[Exile_In_SJ]

If Berger committed a crime, he should be prosecuted.

I'll bet by the end of the week, the Republicans try to drag Kerry into this... Probably saying something like Berger was stealing the documents for Kerry or something.

And speaking of being prosecuted... Whatever happened to that whole Valerie Plame disgrace? Who got strung up for that treasonous move?


It all depends on what John Kerry does and what they can prove Berger did. Berger is an unpaid adviser to Kerry and a potential Secretary of State candidate under a kerry Administration.

If it looks like Berger is gonna go down and Kerry doesn't drop him like a hot potato, then it'll get very interesting..

The Valerie Plame thing is ongoing, but I doubt much will come of it, her Husband being a liar may also reflect on her.. Who knows what she says was true?

[Taco John]

I bet by the end of the week, we start seeing headlines switch from "Clinton NSA Advisor, Sandy Berger," to "Kerry Advisor, Sandy Berger."

Just watch. This is new millenium politics here. It might even be tomorrow.

[RaiderH8r]

I bet by the end of the week, we start seeing headlines switch from "Clinton NSA Advisor, Sandy Berger," to "Kerry Advisor, Sandy Berger."

Just watch. This is new millenium politics here. It might even be tomorrow.
Both statements are true. However, I do see your point and I find it humerous. I'm sure it won't be, "Sandy Berger, former Clinton NSA Advisor". The name at the beginning is who the sh!t will stick to and in the mind of the viewer, will bear some culpability. Whether deserved or not. :woowoo:

[Exile_In_SJ]

that all depends on if Kerry keeps him.. if he lets him go, it'll be Clinton NSA..

if he keeps him around he'll be associated with him. But just imagine if the shoe was on the other foot.....

[Rohirrim]

More toilet bowl politics from the right. Berger made a stupid mistake - Allowed the FBI to take apart his home (warrants or not). Begged Ashcroft not to blow this out of proportion for politics (it's a misdemeanor). Apologized to everybody. And resigned as a Kerry advisor.

Hastert: Berger "pilfered" the documents.
DeLay: "Sounds like a third rate burglary to me."

And now the neocon attack dogs come out: Kerry, Kerry, Kerry.

Sounds to me like there's no "there" there. Of course for the party that smeared the the heroism of former combat veterans (although none of them are veterans) like McCain, Cleland and Kerry, this is just another smear opportunity.

[Sideburn]

More toilet bowl politics from the right. Berger made a stupid mistake - Allowed the FBI to take apart his home (warrants or not). Begged Ashcroft not to blow this out of proportion for politics (it's a misdemeanor). Apologized to everybody. And resigned as a Kerry advisor.

Hastert: Berger "pilfered" the documents.
DeLay: "Sounds like a third rate burglary to me."

And now the neocon attack dogs come out: Kerry, Kerry, Kerry.

Sounds to me like there's no "there" there. Of course for the party that smeared the the heroism of former combat veterans (although none of them are veterans) like McCain, Cleland and Kerry, this is just another smear opportunity.
:bs: He "accidentally" stuffed them down his pants the first time. Then they called him on it and he returned the copies that were "accidentally" taken. Then he "accidentally" did it a second time on numbered pages done by the National Archive. There are still pages missing that were there moments before Berger went in and looked around. Give up the poor pitiful democrats rhetoric. What would you be saying if Condi Rice did this?

[Exile_In_SJ]

:bs: He "accidentally" stuffed them down his pants the first time. Then they called him on it and he returned the copies that were "accidentally" taken. Then he "accidentally" did it a second time on numbered pages done by the National Archive. There are still pages missing that were there moments before Berger went in and looked around. Give up the poor pitiful democrats rhetoric. What would you be saying if Condi Rice did this?


Easy answer, if it was Condi Rice they'd be screaming 'Watergate' and demanding her resignation... Remember the feeding frenzy when they wanted Rumsfelds head? it's be the same thing, except they'd crucify her.

[Taco John]

I'm not a democrat, but I'm happy to see that Berger resigned.

I want Condi's resignation anyway, though. She's terrible.

[Sideburn]

Easy answer, if it was Condi Rice they'd be screaming 'Watergate' and demanding her resignation... Remember the feeding frenzy when they wanted Rumsfelds head? it's be the same thing, except they'd crucify her.
I know this...you know this...half the population knows this.

[Rohirrim]

:bs: He "accidentally" stuffed them down his pants the first time. Then they called him on it and he returned the copies that were "accidentally" taken. Then he "accidentally" did it a second time on numbered pages done by the National Archive. There are still pages missing that were there moments before Berger went in and looked around. Give up the poor pitiful democrats rhetoric. What would you be saying if Condi Rice did this?

I haven't read this "accidently stuffed them down his pants" anywhere but in your post.

[Sideburn]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5463586
By John Solomon
The Associated Press
Updated: 10:28 p.m. ET July 19, 2004WASHINGTON - President Clinton’s national security adviser, Sandy Berger, is the focus of a Justice Department investigation after removing highly classified terrorism documents and handwritten notes from a secure reading room during preparations for the Sept. 11 commission hearings, The Associated Press has learned.


Berger’s home and office were searched earlier this year by FBI agents armed with warrants after he voluntarily returned documents to the National Archives. However, still missing are some drafts of a sensitive after-action report on the Clinton administration’s handling of al-Qaida terror threats during the December 1999 millennium celebration.

Berger and his lawyer said Monday night he knowingly removed handwritten notes he had made while reading classified anti-terror documents at the archives by sticking them in his jacket and pants. He also inadvertently took copies of actual classified documents in a leather portfolio, they said.taking notes and removal of classified documents is a crime btw

“I deeply regret the sloppiness involved, but I had no intention of withholding documents from the commission, and to the contrary, to my knowledge, every document requested by the commission from the Clinton administration was produced,” Berger said in a statement to the AP.

Lanny Breuer, one of Berger’s attorneys, said his client has offered to cooperate fully with the investigation but had not yet been interviewed by the FBI or prosecutors. Berger has been told he is the subject of the criminal investigation, Breuer said.

There are federal laws strictly governing the handling of classified information, including prohibiting the unauthorized release or removal of such materials.

Berger served as Clinton’s national security adviser for all of the president’s second term and most recently has been informally advising Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry. Clinton asked Berger last year to review and select the administration documents that would be turned over to the commission.

The FBI searches of Berger’s home and office occurred after National Archives employees told agents they believed they saw Berger place documents in his clothing while reading sensitive Clinton administration papers and that some documents were then noticed missing, officials said.

When asked, Berger said he returned some classified documents that he found in his office and all of the handwritten notes he had taken from the secure room, but could not locate two or three copies of the highly classified millennium terror report.

“In the course of reviewing over several days thousands of pages of documents on behalf of the Clinton administration in connection with requests by the Sept. 11 commission, I inadvertently took a few documents from the Archives,” Berger said.

“When I was informed by the Archives that there were documents missing, I immediately returned everything I had except for a few documents that I apparently had accidentally discarded,” he said.

Breuer said Berger believed he was looking at copies of the classified documents, not originals.

NBC News
Panel won’t say whether 9/11 could have been stopped




Berger was allowed to take handwritten notes but also knew that taking his own notes out of the secure reading room was a “technical violation of Archive procedures, but it is not all clear to us this represents a violation of the law,” Breuer said.

Government and congressional officials familiar with the investigation, who spoke only on condition of anonymity because the probe involves classified materials, said the investigation remains active and no decision has been made on whether Berger should face criminal charges.

The officials said the missing documents were highly classified, and included critical assessments about the Clinton administration’s handling of the millennium terror threats as well as identification of America’s terror vulnerabilities at airports and seaports.

Berger testified at one of the commission’s public hearings about the Clinton administration’s approach to fighting terrorism. The former president answered the panel’s questions at a private meeting.

The former national security adviser himself had ordered his anti-terror czar Richard Clarke in early 2000 to write the after-action report and has spoken publicly about how the review brought to the forefront the realization that al-Qaida had reached America’s shores and required more attention.

Berger testified that during the millennium period, “we thwarted threats and I do believe it was important to bring the principals together on a frequent basis” to consider terror threats more regularly.

The missing documents involve two or three draft versions of the report as it was evolving and being refined by the Clinton administration, officials and lawyers say. The Archives is believed to have copies of some of the missing documents.

In the FBI search of his office, Berger also was found in possession of a small number of classified note cards containing his handwritten notes from the Middle East peace talks during the 1990s, but those are not a focus of the current criminal probe, officials and lawyers said.

Breuer said the Archives staff first raised concerns with Berger during an Oct. 2 review of documents that at least one copy of the post-millennium report he had reviewed earlier was missing. Berger was given a second copy that day, Breuer said.

Officials familiar with the investigation said Archives staff specially marked the documents and when the new copy and others disappeared, Archives officials called Clinton attorney Bruce Lindsey to report the disappearance.

Berger immediately returned all the notes he had taken, and conducted a search and located two copies of the classified documents on a messy desk in his office, Breuer said. An Archives official came to Berger’s home to collect those documents but Berger couldn’t locate the other missing copies, the lawyer said.

He retained counsel, and in January the FBI executed search warrants of a safe at Berger’s home as well as his business office where he found some of the documents. Agents also failed to locate the missing documents.

Justice Department officials have told the Sept. 11 commission of the Berger incident and the nature of the documents in case commissioners wanted more information, officials said. The commission is expected to release its final report Thursday.

Congressional intelligence committees, however, have not been formally notified.

“The House Intelligence Committee has not been informed on the loss or theft of any classified intelligence information from the Archives, but we will follow up and get the information that is appropriate for the committee to have,” the committee said Monday in a statement. “And if it has occurred, we should be informed. If there has been delay in getting the information to the committee we need to know why.”

Berger is the second high-level Clinton-era official to face controversy over taking classified information home.

Former CIA Director John Deutch was pardoned by Clinton just hours before Clinton left office in 2001 for taking home classified information and keeping it on unsecured computers at his home during his time at the CIA and Pentagon. Deutch was about to enter into a plea agreement for a misdemeanor charge of mishandling government secrets when the pardon was granted.

© 2004 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

[Sideburn]

There are also two witnesses, and an apparent video of him doing this. Although the video can not be confirmed yet.

[Rohirrim]

Berger and his lawyer said Monday night he knowingly removed handwritten notes he had made while reading classified anti-terror documents at the archives by sticking them in his jacket and pants. He also inadvertently took copies of actual classified documents in a leather portfolio, they said.

Could this mean he was stuffing notes that he took in his jacket and pants pockets?

taking notes and removal of classified documents is a crime btw

Berger was allowed to take handwritten notes but also knew that taking his own notes out of the secure reading room was a “technical violation of Archive procedures, but it is not all clear to us this represents a violation of the law,” Breuer said.

This still smells to me like making a mountain out of a molehill. I guess I'll wait for the "apparant video."

What I'm expecting to be the next step here is the GOP attack machine trying to link this to Kerry. SOS

[Sideburn]

Wait for the video...thats fine by me. Although, there wasn't much waiting for any actual proof on whether or not Bush or Rumsfeld gave orders for Abu Ghraib style interrogations. It was just assumed that they did. Ignore this if you want. It's no sweat off my balls. But we know from the past year what would have been said by you and others if this were Condi Rice.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

More toilet bowl politics from the right.

Is there any other kind where the rightards are concerned?

what I think it was, was the documents lifted were unflattering to Clinton in his dealings about terrorism and Berger took them to help Clinton prepare his spin...

More unsubstantiated crap straight from the toilet bowl.

[Rohirrim]

Wait for the video...thats fine by me. Although, there wasn't much waiting for any actual proof on whether or not Bush or Rumsfeld gave orders for Abu Ghraib style interrogations. It was just assumed that they did. Ignore this if you want. It's no sweat off my balls. But we know from the past year what would have been said by you and others if this were Condi Rice.

No. You have no idea what I would have said. You can only assume. That seems to be the meat of most of your posts on this subject anyway; assumptions.

[Spider]

I am Down On Berger , He was a NSA , he knows what Classified documents means , his actions wether a mistake or not , cast a cloud over the 9-11 report ........
He should have used caution ..... No excuse for taking Documents out of that room .......

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Clinton comes to Berger's defense, exposes GOP ploy

Well, at least according to our favorite source, Matt Drudge ... though of this some is apparently from a Denver Post interview to run tomorrow.

Former president Bill Clinton defends his embattled national security advisor as a man who "always got things right," even if his desk was a mess.

"We were all laughing about it," Clinton said about the investigation into Sandy Berger for taking classified terrorism documents from the National Archives. "People who don't know him might find it hard to believe. But ... all of us who've been in his office have always found him buried beneath papers."

MORE

DRUDGE has learned: In an interview set for publication Wednesday in the DENVER POST, Clinton questions the timing of the Berger flap less than a week before the Democratic National Convention and two days before a presidential commission is slated to release its final report on the Bush administration's handling of the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.

Clinton tells the POST he has known about the federal probe of Berger's actions for several months, calling the news a "non-story."

"I wish I knew who leaked it. It's interesting timing," he added.

"I feel terrible for Sandy. But I just believe his explanation because I know how much he cared about this ... terrorism business," Clinton said, describing his former security advisor as a "workaholic" who has "always been up to his ears in papers."

http://www.drudgereport.com/flash2.htm

Question regarding a secondary (or who knows, perhaps even primary) motive for leaking the Berger story at the height of focus on 9/11 and the Dem Convention: unless totally vindicated (which I doubt will ever happen--because they'll never actually charge him with anything, just let these suspicions linger), Berger has just lost his chances for a major position in the Kerry administration. Word has it Secretary of State was his preferred job--and I would rather see Sandy Berger there than Richard Holbrooke, myself. There is no way Kerry could get a confirmation in the Senate without Republicans bringing up all sorts of murmers about pants stuffing. This is a real loss for the nation, I suspect. Are they going to pick off Kerry's cabinet members in advance, one by one? Stay tuned. At least with Clinton they waited until he got into office to start defiling his cabinet picks.

They must be pretty certain Kerry will win and so are starting early this time.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

At least it seems the timing of the story has been as big of an issue as the "merits" of the story itself. In other words, maybe the Rove Marionettes aren't quite in synch...

http://www.bartcop.com/by-divider.jpg

[Sideburn]

No. You have no idea what I would have said. You can only assume. That seems to be the meat of most of your posts on this subject anyway; assumptions.
You're correct, it's an assumption. But it's an assumption based on countless posts by yourself and others bashing any and all republicans that are implicated in anything. Your past haunts you. I also assume Bin Laden is going to try and attack America again. Why do I assume this? Based on his past dealings. My assumptions in this thread are based on Bergers own words, and the words of witnesses that say he stuffed documents down his pants. There are even reports that he stuffed notes in his socks. I have no proof of the socks so I didn't bring it up. But ask yourself a question...Why did he do this? All he had to do was check in with the National Archive people and "check out" any documents he wanted to take home to study. He didn't do this. There are still pages missing that need to be found. The pages missing are originals...not copies. He is a former NSA...he knows the rules. He broke the rules.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Speaking of timing...

Commission statement due out this week might highlight Bush weakness

WASHINGTON - The final report of the commission looking into the Sept. 11 attacks might trigger new criticism of President Bush by Democrats who say he is weak on terrorism and homeland security, and will likely pressure him to embrace some of the sweeping changes the panel is expected to recommend.

Yesterday Democrats and their likely presidential nominee, John Kerry, seized on what has been billed as a highly critical report, to be released Thursday, as an opportunity to deflate Bush's standing in areas where he has demonstrated his greatest political strength - counterterrorism and national security.

While the report describes some missed warning signs of gathering terrorist threats on former President Bill Clinton's watch, much of the 500-page report is expected to say that the Bush White House overlooked clues that pointed to the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/custom/attack/bal-te.terror20jul20,0,76193.story

[Rohirrim]

You're correct, it's an assumption. But it's an assumption based on countless posts by yourself and others bashing any and all republicans that are implicated in anything. Your past haunts you. I also assume Bin Laden is going to try and attack America again. Why do I assume this? Based on his past dealings. My assumptions in this thread are based on Bergers own words, and the words of witnesses that say he stuffed documents down his pants. There are even reports that he stuffed notes in his socks. I have no proof of the socks so I didn't bring it up. But ask yourself a question...Why did he do this? All he had to do was check in with the National Archive people and "check out" any documents he wanted to take home to study. He didn't do this. There are still pages missing that need to be found. The pages missing are originals...not copies. He is a former NSA...he knows the rules. He broke the rules.

Well, Clinton says the guy's a slob. Maybe that's all it is. I can't imagine what the benefit could be to anybody, left or right, for Berger removing 5 year old documents - not whole reports - just pages here and there.

The other thing I find strange; This all happened in Oct. 2003. The FBI has been on it since then. Nothing new has happened. The investigation hasn't reached some crucial peak, or anything. Nobody on the 9/11 Commission seemed unduly concerned about it - until now. Five days before the Dem convention this story gets leaked to the press? And two days before the scathing 9/11 commission report comes out - that most insiders say will blast the Bush admin? Tom DeLay says it's a "third rate burglary?" Why didn't he say that back in 2003 when, I'm sure, he first heard about this story. Why now? What can a reasonable person assume from that?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

The other thing I find strange; This all happened in Oct. 2003. The FBI has been on it since then. Nothing new has happened. The investigation hasn't reached some crucial peak, or anything. Nobody on the 9/11 Commission seemed unduly concerned about it - until now.

Bingo.

The timing is remarkable, isn't it?

Just when the 9/11 Commission is going to release its report (a report which will purpotedly show that Resident Gigglekill was sleeping on and before 9/11.)

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Why didn't he say that back in 2003 when, I'm sure, he first heard about this story. Why now?

Um, for the same reason they haven't caught Osama yet?

Do I win something?

;)

[watermock]

And what does this have to do with Wilson's lies, his tea parties or his book?

Let me remind you idiots what this thread is about.

Not only has Wilson been proven to be a stone cold liar, now Berger is implicated in stealing documents, some of which are still missing.

Your still dancing around like morons.

Los Alamos has been shut down...FINALLY.

You people are so clueless its incredible.

[OrangeDoofus]

If Berger committed a crime, he should be prosecuted.

I'll bet by the end of the week, the Republicans try to drag Kerry into this... Probably saying something like Berger was stealing the documents for Kerry or something.

Wouldn't surprise me. As Ro pointed out, they've alread timed the leak of this 9-month-old investigation to coincide with the release of the 9/11 report and the start of the Democratic convention.

And speaking of being prosecuted... Whatever happened to that whole Valerie Plame disgrace? Who got strung up for that treasonous move?

The prosecutor investigating that is supposed to announce within the next couple of weeks whether he's going to charge anyone or not.

[OrangeDoofus]

Here's something else:

Berger walked out of the meeting with papers he shouldn't have had in October 2003. The FBI searched his home in January. They still haven't questioned Berger about this. What the hell is taking so long?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Just another repuke ploy to take the focus off Resident Gigglekill/the 9/11 commission findings and to (they hope) slime their way into a second term.

All they are really doing is tipping their hand, i.e., showing the world just how afraid of Kerry/Edwards they really are.

[watermock]

Just another repuke ploy to take the focus off Resident Gigglekill/the 9/11 commission findings and to (they hope) slime their way into a second term.

All they are really doing is tipping their hand, i.e., showing the world just how afraid of Kerry/Edwards they really are.

The guy said he knew it was wrong, but that he didn't know it was illegal.

Your dancing around. Documents stay in a secure place. The question is why on two occasions did he take documents in violation of the law.

These were top secret opererational doctuments.

LABF and others just write it off.

There was nothing accidental. There are DOCUMENTS MISSING AS I TYPE.

He should be hung.

Berger had clearance to read whatever he wanted to.

Taking those documents out of a secure area and "losing" them is treason.

Spin it all you want.

[OrangeDoofus]

There are DOCUMENTS MISSING AS I TYPE.

No there aren't. He took copies of the documents and he took his notes. The originals are still there. What he did was wrong, and he should face the music, but there are no documents missing.

And it's been nine months since this happened and the FBI still hasn't even bothered to question him, so I find it kind of hard to believe this is a critical national security matter.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

And it's been nine months since this happened and the FBI still hasn't even bothered to question him, so I find it kind of hard to believe this is a critical national security matter.

Exactly.

First, they wait nine months to give the story to their infotainment lapdogs at Fox/MSGOP/CNN/ABC/NBC/CBS.

Second, they haven't actually charged him with any crime.

Sounds like another non-event of Whitewater proportions to me.

These thugs have been caught lying and cheating so many times they have zero credibility.

[watermock]

How do you know there are no documents missing?

Sounds like another non-event of Whitewater proportions to me.

Probably, like when Clinton walked and others went to jail.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

How do you know there are no documents missing?

How do you know that there are?

Why has he not been charged with any crime?

Why did Gigglekill's junta wait nine months to feed the story to the "press?"

Probably, like when Clinton walked and others went to jail.

Actually, the Pillsbury Report exonerated Clinton, and it was subsequently learned that the whole thing (Whitewater) had been a big sham conceived by the repukes.

Getting your history straight is a b*tch, huh?

[watermock]

Wrong. People went to gain protecting Clinton in Whitewater.

Berger will be charged. It's matter of time.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

People went to gain protecting Clinton in Whitewater.

Then blame the GOP. Whitewater was nothing but another bogus witch hunt concocted by the repigs in a desperate attempt to create grounds for impeachment.

Every single repig who tried to hang Clinton for Whitewater was outed as a liar.

Berger will be charged. It's matter of time.

When you're proven wrong on this, you'll deny you ever said it.

It's just a matter of time.

[watermock]

Explain to me why you changed the subject from Berger to whitewater again.

[watermock]

He allready admitted an illegal action. It's up to the feds to decide to charge him.

He knows it was illegal. What part of this are you missing?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Explain to me why you changed the subject from Berger to whitewater again.

Actually, it was you who changed the subject.

I merely described this latest development as "a non-event of Whitewater proportions," or something to that effect, and you were off and running.

I guess the fishing around here is better than I bargained for.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

He allready admitted an illegal action.

Actually, I believe he was quoted as saying it was "an honest mistake."

But you still haven't explained why the FBI knew about the "scandal" nine months ago and still didn't bother to question him (much less charge him with a crime.)

[watermock]

Hardly. I didn't bring up Blackwater, you did.

It's not even important. Noone will know what files he destroyed.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

I merely compared this latest development to Whitewater in a rhetorical sentence.

You were the one who chose to pursue it as a seperate topic.

[watermock]

Wrong again.

The issue is why Berger was taking classified documents out of the archives.

[OrangeDoofus]

How do you know there are no documents missing?

I haven't seen a story that talks about missing documents. The only stories I've seen refer to Berger taking copies from the briefing room. If you've seen anything different, please correct me.

And like I said, the FBI's been sitting on this for nine months. If there really were missing documents, don't you think they'd be working a little harder on this.

Berger will be charged. It's matter of time.

At the rate the FBI's going, Berger will be dead before that happens.

[watermock]

First, it wasn't a briefing room, it was an archive room.

And who knows what he took. He said himself he "stuffed documents in his pants"

Go run with it.

It's not as bad as Los Alamos, which has finally been shut down.

We are finally getting the insane asylum under control.

[Exile_In_SJ]

He allready admitted an illegal action.

Actually, I believe he was quoted as saying it was "an honest mistake."

But you still haven't explained why the FBI knew about the "scandal" nine months ago and still didn't bother to question him (much less charge him with a crime.)



Duh, the accused says it's an honest mistake as witnesses watch him stuff papers into his pants.... yeah they accidently fell into his crotch...

how many accused say, well of coursd i did it...very few I suspect... what else is this guy gonna say. what a tool.

this is bad for the dems, go over to demoncraticunderground and see the whining and the attempts to shift blame..

[rosco]

It all depends on what John Kerry does and what they can prove Berger did. Berger is an unpaid adviser to Kerry and a potential Secretary of State candidate under a kerry Administration.

If it looks like Berger is gonna go down and Kerry doesn't drop him like a hot potato, then it'll get very interesting..

The Valerie Plame thing is ongoing, but I doubt much will come of it, her Husband being a liar may also reflect on her.. Who knows what she says was true?
It's irrelevent whether Valerie Plame or her husband is honest or not, what's relevent is who's the jackass in the administration who released her name.

[Exile_In_SJ]

KERRY'S FOREIGN POLICY TEAM IN DISARRAY (by Glenn Reynolds)

This can't be good for the Kerry campaign. In the runup to the Democratic Convention, Kerry's foreign policy team is falling apart.

First, there's the Joe Wilson implosion. I wrote about that yesterday, but don't take my word for it -- read the devastating comments of lefty lawyer-blogger Bob Somerby. (And read this, too.) Adding to the embarrassment, Wilson's "RestoreHonesty.com" Web site is paid for and hosted by the Kerry campaign.

But to Wilson's undoubted relief, his problems have been overshadowed by those of another member of the Kerry campaign's foreign policy team, former Clinton Administration National Security Adviser Sandy Berger, who has hastily left the Kerry organization after it came out that he was under criminal investigation for taking classified documents from the 9/11 Commission archives:

Berger and his lawyer said Monday night he knowingly removed the handwritten notes by placing them in his jacket and pants, and also inadvertently took copies of actual classified documents in a leather portfolio.
. . .
There are laws strictly governing the handling of classified information, including prohibiting unauthorized removal or release of such information.

Now some of these documents -- which apparently involve security missteps during the Clinton Administration, and recommendations for fixing them -- are missing and Berger can't account for them. This has led to many pants jokes (blogger Charles Austin says that it's going to make national security a "wedgie issue" for the Democrats), along with references to Iran-Contra figure Fawn Hall, who smuggled secret documents out of the White House in her underwear. But it's a serious matter, as there are two possibilities here.

One is that Berger -- who ought to be familiar with the rather strict rules covering classified documents -- is just inept. That's troubling enough, in a man who for years was the number one national security official under President Clinton, and who looked to have an inside track to a similarly high position in a possible Kerry Administration. As Virginia Postrel writes:

I'm willing to believe that Sandy Berger had no nefarious motives when he walked out of a secure reading room with "highly classified terrorism documents and handwritten notes" on the Clinton administration's handling of al Qaeda threats, as the A.P. is reporting. But could we please hear a little less about how the Bush administration's foreign policy advisers are incompetent?

This guy was National Security Adviser. Yikes.

Yikes, indeed. The other possibility, of course, is that Berger was removing the documents because they contained information that might hurt his reputation, or President Clinton's, or perhaps John Kerry's.

That's far more serious than mere carelessness, though it will be hard to determine what was going on.

He's certainly done a good deal of harm to Kerry's campaign already through these actions. And -- though I've said good things about Kerry's foreign policy here (and elsewhere) before -- I have to say that it doesn't inspire much confidence. If Wilson and Berger are Kerry's idea of topflight foreign policy figures, well, then I wouldn't want to be in our pants -- er, shoes -- under a Kerry Administration.

Then there's the press coverage this has gotten, which has been rather lackluster, to put it mildly. As Mickey Kaus observes, the New York Times buried the initial report:

A-16: Even cynical New York Times-bashers must be amazed that that is where the paper ran the news of the Sandy Berger criminal investigation. ... I guess they wouldn't want to bump that late-breaking piece on untucked shirttails from the front page.

I'll leave you with this thought: If Condi Rice had removed supersecret documents that seemed likely to embarrass the Bush Administration from the 9/11 Commission archives, and then claimed they were "lost," would the press be soft-pedaling it the way they're soft-pedaling this story? (And, for that matter, the story of Wilson's implosion?) I don't think so.

[Rohirrim]

And what does this have to do with Wilson's lies, his tea parties or his book?

Let me remind you idiots what this thread is about.

Not only has Wilson been proven to be a stone cold liar, now Berger is implicated in stealing documents, some of which are still missing.

Your still dancing around like morons.

Los Alamos has been shut down...FINALLY.

You people are so clueless its incredible.

The only people who have "proved" that Wilson was lying are Fox News - I'm sure they have a high standard.

Clueless? Read the thread title, dimbulb.

Let's see: All the news reports say he took notes and put them in his pants pockets. Morph to the nutjob definition: Stuffed documents down his pants. Ha!

[Exile_In_SJ]

The only people who have "proved" that Wilson was lying are Fox News - I'm sure they have a high standard.

Clueless? Read the thread title, dimbulb.

Actually anyone who looks at what happened says Wilson Lied, they just don't say it loudly..

But this thread is about Sandy Berger and his theft of classified documents, which he's already admitted taking....

[Exile_In_SJ]

I've also heard some Dem pols complaining about timing.. lol.. did they whine about timing when Richard Clarkes anti-Bush screed was released just before the 9-11 commission public hearings? I didn't hear anything about timing then.. lmao..

[Exile_In_SJ]

This guy was the National Security Adviser to Clinton for chrissakes. He had to know about security proceedures. If he didn't, he was too stupid to be in such a position.

Taking these classified documents was no accident or just sloppiness...

[Exile_In_SJ]

And putting them down his pants, as witnesses have described indicate a desire to conceal his actions from the authorities.

It's too early to say, but this guy may be on the level with the watergate burglars who may have just been the janitorial crew cleaning the offices.. Just as plausible as accidently stuffing classified documents down your trousers..rofl

[Rohirrim]

In the old days they used to call something like this a tempest in a teacup. The only purpose for this story is to distract. I guarantee you, Rove dreamed it up. Now he wants to see if it has legs. If it doesn't, he'll come up with something else. I wonder what Paula Jones is up to these days. Maybe she needs more plastic surgery?

[Exile_In_SJ]

Stealing classified documents is a tempest in a teapot? I doubt it. At best it shows Sandy Berger as stupid, at worst, he may have betrayed the country, depending on what he stole and what was in the documents

[Exile_In_SJ]

Remember, Berger admitted to taking the documents, so it hardly was 'dreamed up' by Rove. Like I said, at best it's a stupid move by Berger, who was NSA... And if he's that careless and stupid in this instance, what harm did he cause when he was NSA?

This is very bad for the dems.

[Exile_In_SJ]

If anything Berger gave the Republicans a ready made tool to bash the Dems... Berger must be stupid.. rofl

[OrangeDoofus]

Well, this is clearly a major national security issue. Obviously the FBI is very concerned. I imagine they'll get around to questioning Berger about this nine-month-old incident any day now.

[watermock]

they have locked down Los Alamos. yeah, it's unrelated but it shows how bad our security is.

You can spin it any way you want. Berger stuffing classified documents, some of which are still missing is treason. Bottom Line.

Why do you think they were in a "
secure room"?

The asshole should be hung from a pole.

[Exile_In_SJ]

Uhm, I imagine they've already questioned him...

I wonder who Berger might have given the missing documents to?

[watermock]

Is not Berger a Clinton appointee?

[Spider]

No there aren't. He took copies of the documents and he took his notes. The originals are still there. What he did was wrong, and he should face the music, but there are no documents missing.


Agreed ............. And Rep ........

[Rohirrim]

If anything Berger gave the Republicans a ready made tool to bash the Dems... Berger must be stupid.. rofl

I think the Dems just consistenly underestimate what nasty back-stabbers these neocons are.

Attorney Lanny Breuer told NBC's “Today” show Wednesday that he was “very disappointed” by assertions by Republicans that Berger's removal of copies of classified terrorism documents from the National Archive could represent a national security crisis.

“This matter is a year old. Never once, in all my discussions with the Justice Department has there been any assertion like that,” he said.

“All I can tell you is that when this matter started a year ago, I said to the Department of Justice that we were going to deal with this in good faith, that we wouldn’t go to the press and that we wouldn’t make this political .... and then suddenly, days before the 9/11 commission report comes out, this is leaked.”

Suddenly, it’s leaked – and out come Karl Rove’s slime merchants:

“What information could be so embarrassing that a man with decades of experience in handling classified documents would risk being caught pilfering our nation’s most sensitive secrets?” House Speaker Dennis Hastert, R-Ill., said. “Mr. Berger has a lot of explaining to do.”

Hey Dennis, if somebody was “pilfering our nation’s most sensitive secrets”, why didn’t you reveal this ten months ago?

Then, the slime king himself:

House Majority Leader Tom DeLay, R-Texas, told reporters the case was about theft and questioned a statement by Berger issued Monday attributing the removal of the documents and notes to sloppiness.

“I think it’s gravely, gravely serious what he did, if he did it. It could be a national security crisis,” DeLay said.

Hey Tom, if this was a “national security crisis”, why didn’t you let the nation know about it ten months ago?

David Gergen, who was an adviser to Clinton and worked with Berger for a time in the White House, said Tuesday, “I think it’s more innocent than it looks.”

Appearing on NBC’s “Today” show, Gergen said: “I have known Sandy Berger for a long time. He would never do anything to compromise the security of the United States.”

Gergen said he thought that “it is suspicious” that word of the investigation of Berger would emerge just as the Sept. 11 commission was about to release its report, because “this investigation started months ago.”

Many Democrats, including former President Clinton himself, suggested that politics were behind disclosure of the probe only days before Thursday’s scheduled release of the Sept. 11 commission report. That report is expected to be highly critical of the government’s response to the growing al-Qaida threat, a potential blow to President Bush’s re-election campaign.

“It’s interesting timing,” Clinton said at a Denver autograph session for his book, “My Life.” Berger served as national security adviser for all of Clinton’s second term.

Berger himself had ordered his anti-terror czar Richard Clarke in early 2000 to write the after-action report and has publicly spoken about how the review brought to the forefront the realization that al-Qaida had reached America’s shores and required more attention.

This was the info turned over to Condi Rice. She did nothing about it – until 9/11. Of course, when this fact comes out in the 9/11 commission’s report, Berger will have already been smeared and the attention of the country diverted to this BS. Good work, Karl.

You’ve got to admire how the GOP slime merchants patiently set this up. First, they assure Berger’s attorney they’ll keep this under wraps and let the investigation take its course. Then, two days before the Commission releases its report, they leak it to the press. Imagine sitting on this for ten months! That Karl is one patient spider.

Wouldn't you like to know who leaked this now?

Uh, BTW, if these 5 year old documents are so bloody important, what are they doing in the National Archive. Shouldn't they be in a CIA vault somewhere?

[Captain_Poncho]

Two things I see here:

1) Berger is slimy, and tried to cover something up, for which he should be severely punished.

2) I thoroughly dislike the sliminess of the timing of the release of this information, which initially seemed like a recent event, but has turned out to be otherwise.

Politicians are all so damn scummy.

[Spider]

Two things I see here:

1) Berger is slimy, and tried to cover something up, for which he should be severely punished.

2) I thoroughly dislike the sliminess of the timing of the release of this information, which initially seemed like a recent event, but has turned out to be otherwise.

Politicians are all so damn scummy.
It is all Part of the Game , where Else are you going to get People to Spend Millions to get a Job that Pays thousands ..........
It is Great , you got to love politics..............

[RaiderH8r]

I love the game. Pull the strings and dance you little puppets.....DANCE!!! Voltaire said, "God is a comedian playing to audience too afraid to laugh"

[Exile_In_SJ]

Like I said about timing.. So What, timing is a game both sides play.. Richard Clarkes book coming out in the 9/11 hearings.

Heck if you think the Republicans timed this, why not wait till John Kerry's onstage with his arm around Sandy Berger? That'd certainly be better timing.

[Exile_In_SJ]

As far as slime merchants, the Dems aren't second place to anyone, from James Carville to Terry McAuliffe, being slime merchants extraordinaire...

How is reporting a theft by the former Clinton NSA slimey? The act is the bad thing, not the reporting of it.

[Spider]

Well at least there was no cover up about it ......... And there isnt stepping in Party line defending Berger , at least not here ........... Although the attack has gone over the top ........ If there is Video of this , I would love to see it ........
I some how doubt Berger was stuffing Documents in his socks ..........

[Spider]

As far as slime merchants, the Dems aren't second place to anyone, from James Carville to Terry McAuliffe, being slime merchants extraordinaire...

How is reporting a theft by the former Clinton NSA slimey? The act is the bad thing, not the reporting of it.
9-10 months later ?
I am stil trying ot figure out why this wasnt brought out During the 9-11 hearings ...........

[Exile_In_SJ]

There isn't stepping in party line to defend Berger? Have you seen any of the dems on TV defending Berger? Please, as soon as it came out, there were democrats defending Berger.. Tm Daschle was out there on the front lines defending him..Kerry defended him.

[Spider]

There isn't stepping in party line to defend Berger? Have you seen any of the dems on TV defending Berger? Please, as soon as it came out, there were democrats defending Berger.. Tm Daschle was out there on the front lines defending him..Kerry defended him.
What does the Mane have to do with TV ?

[Spider]

See what you are missing is , the Democrats here , are saying Beger should be punished , We are not defending his actions ........

[Exile_In_SJ]

from instapundit...

HMM. THIS SEEMS HARD to square with the "honest mistake" theory:


A government official with knowledge of the probe said Berger removed from archives files all five or six drafts of a critique of the government's response to the millennium terrorism threat, which he said was classified "codeword," the government's highest level of document security.


And it was on multiple occasions:


After one of his visits to the Archives last fall, one of the government officials said, Berger was alerted to the missing documents and later returned some of the materials. On subsequent visits by Berger, Archives staffers specially marked documents he reviewed to try to ensure their return. But the government official said some of those materials also went missing, prompting Archives staffers to alert federal authorities.

[Exile_In_SJ]

More from Instapundit...

UPDATE: Reader Kevin Hurst emails:


I work with classified documents and while it is true that violations of procedure are not uncommon, it is extremely rare, at least in my corner of the world, to see something like this. I can't even take a briefcase into the unclassified reading room at the National Archives, yet Berger is stuffing classified documents into a leather bag?! I know that the Clinton people were famous (infamous?) for lax document security, but I have trouble imagining that a former NSA can be this incompetent. Samuel L. Morison spent over a year in Federal prison for sending classified satellite photos of a Soviet carrier under construction to Jane's Defense Weekly and I don't see how what he did is any worse that what Berger has done.


I've gotten a lot of emails along these lines from federal employees who work with classified documents. It would be interesting to see a news story interviewing some people like that, and looking at what happens to worker-bee types who violate security this way.

MORE: I'm not the only one who's getting these emails: "I still haven't gotten a single email from someone who regularly deals with classified info who isn't scandalized by this. Meanwhile I get a half-dozen of these every hour or so."

And this summary of the Berger affair is worth reading, too: "Third, it appears that Berger's 'inadvertent' actions clearly aroused the suspicion of the professional staff at the Archives. Staff members there are said to have seen Berger concealing the papers; they became so concerned that they set up what was in effect a small sting operation to catch him. And sure enough, Berger took some more. Those witnesses went to their superiors, who ultimately went to the Justice Department."

But, reportedly, there was no surveillance camera.

UPDATE: Here's another report from someone who does research at the Archives:


Here is the kicker - You are not allowed to bring in briefcases, or binders, or even your own pens or pencils. You are not allowed to wear a jacket or clothing with more than the normal number of pockets. They are extra sensitive to loose clothing. I had some notes that I drafted before heading up (listing what I was looking for). Those were reviewed by security, time and date stamped, and logged in before I was allowed to go further than the front entry hall. The manila folder (not envelope) they were in was taken from me (I had the option of renting a locker for it, but chose to throw it out instead). When I left, I was searched (though they didn't pat me down) and the papers I had were checked to ensure they were the same ones I entered with.

Now, its true, Sandy Berger has a higher security classification than me. But what I find incredible, is that the protocols the press is reporting (that he could bring in a briefcase and note pads and pens) are significantly more lax than are applied to non classified materials made available to the general public.


Yes. And here's another worker-bee email:


Just to back up some of your other correspondents. I spent 27 years total in the AF - with a Top Secret clearance. I had at times, specific appended code word clearances, which are controlled on a strict need-to-know basis - because they often involve sensitive sources (say, you are getting data from a mole in the Itanian Gov. - that particular data would be graded TS and then given a code word to further identify it as very sensitive and to restrict access from those with just general TS clearances). In a nutshell, the security system from least classified to most classified was: Confidential, Secret, Top Secret, Top Secret codeword). When we worked on Top Secret codeword (it might read something like Top Secret Fishhook), it was in a vault and our notes were put in burn bags. We were not allowed to take any notes out -period. We clearly understood that you didn't screw around with Secret, much less TS or TS codeword. For us a slip-up meant the slammer. What Berger did is so far removed from accepted security procedure, that I can only see two possible explanations: dishonesty with an ulterior motive (political CYA, I would guess) Or he's crazy. There is no way a veteran in the security business doesn't understand the gravity of walking out with TS codeword data.

Doug Rivers
USAF Ret.


Did Sandy just think that he shouldn't have to follow the rules?

[Spider]

Well if there is concrete evidence of Misdoing , Berger should be tried and Prosecuted to the full extent of the law ...........
No question this was stupid move on Bergers Part ..........

[Exile_In_SJ]

Hard to see that he won't. with witnesses watching him stuff documents into his pants. The only thing that may save him is that he was a former NSA..

[Spider]

Hard to see that he won't. with witnesses watching him stuff documents into his pants. The only thing that may save him is that he was a former NSA..
Well so far I have read he took Notes of Documents and didnt have the Notes Vetted , if so that is a crime , but I dont know what the Punishment would be ......when this was first reported they said they hadVideo of Berger doing this , Now I guess there is no Video ..........
But to Bergers Credit , he stepped up and said yes I did it , this is what Happened .......

[Blueflame]

According to this article, all the documents are accounted for and Berger has been cleared of all charges...

http://www.kyw1060.com/news_story_detail.cfm?newsitemid=39459

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Do you want fries with that crow burger, Exile?

[watermock]

How about some reality with your delusions.

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2004/ALLPOLITICS/07/20/berger.probe/story.berger.2.jpg
Samuel Berger says he made an honest mistake.

He said he returned everything he had after the National Archives told him documents were missing, "except for a few documents that apparently I had accidentally discarded."

archive staff members told FBI agents they saw Berger placing items in his jacket and pants, and one archive staffer told agents that Berger also placed something in his socks.

This is so damn funny. He "inadvertently" destroyed some documents.

[watermock]

How about some KY with that dildo.

[Exile_In_SJ]

According to this article, all the documents are accounted for and Berger has been cleared of all charges...

http://www.kyw1060.com/news_story_detail.cfm?newsitemid=39459


followed the link, didn't get a Sandy Berger story, got a front page from KYW newsradio, but nothing on the page said anything about Berger... Did you have a direct link to the article?

If Berger was exonerated, don't you think the news outlets would be trumpeting that?

[Exile_In_SJ]

Do you want fries with that crow burger, Exile?


uhm, why? I haven't seen anything exonerating Berger. That link went to a newsradio front page.. I've yet to hear any news story clearing him. Do you have anything official clearing him?.. you might have a bite if you're feeling hungry.

[Exile_In_SJ]

The inadvertence files

Fri Jul 30, 6:05 PM ET

By John Leo

In political scandals, public attention is often focused on some trivial but damning detail. In the Sandy Berger case, it's the socks. Berger, President Clinton (news - web sites)'s national security adviser, is accused of illegally removing from the National Archives highly classified documents related to terrorism, specifically papers on the Clinton administration's handling of the foiled al Qaeda "millennium" plots against the United States. Supposedly, he was reviewing the documents to determine which papers should be released to the 9/11 commission.

First-day stories last week said archives officials reported that Berger had placed notes he made from some top-secret documents either "in his clothing" or in his "jacket and pants." In an early story, one unidentified official said he noticed something white flashing at Berger's ankle level, something that could have been a document or a sock. This would mean either that Berger hid something in a sock, or that he is a poor dresser, wearing white socks with a dark suit. Unfortunately for the poor-dresser theory, one report by CNN.com, admittedly third-hand and anonymous, coming through "law enforcement sources" who got it from the FBI (news - web sites), said an archives staffer had seen Berger placing something in a sock.


No recent scandal has been spun so heavily so quickly. At Fox & Friends, the story was quickly labeled "socksgate." Bill Clinton (news - web sites) worked the other side of the street. He said he and his book-tour entourage "were all laughing about" Berger's foibles--i.e., Berger is a careless but lovable guy caught up in a nonscandal. The New York Times seemed to agree. It ran a no-big-deal report, topped by the snore-inducing headline "A Kerry Adviser Leaves the Race Over Documents," speculating when Berger might return to the Kerry campaign. No mention of the sock, or that Berger was a subject of a serious criminal investigation. Berger aides said he had removed "copies of a handful of classified documents." The rather dramatic news that the FBI had descended on Berger's home and office to search for missing documents was downplayed and folded into the major Democratic talking point--that the Bush administration had leaked the news about Berger and the FBI investigation to divert attention from the 9/11 commission final report.


Terry McAuliffe charged that the timing of the news on Berger was suspicious. Maybe so, but the Bush administration has been buried in nonstop bad news for months. What would have been a nonsuspicious time for the story to emerge--during Richard Clarke's testimony? Or as the Abu Ghraib story broke?


Berger said he regretted his "sloppiness" and explained that he had "inadvertently" walked out with some secret documents and notes he made about other papers. Notes on classified material are not supposed to be removed from a secure room at the archives without permission. Bypassing security protocols is a serious matter, and Berger stretched inadvertence to extreme limits. He inadvertently took the documents and notes, inadvertently didn't notice that he had them, then inadvertently lost or threw away some of the papers. Though the Times continued to soft-pedal the story, by Thursday several news outlets reported sources claiming, as the Washington Post put it, "that Berger was witnessed stuffing papers into his clothing." Through his attorney and spokesmen, Berger denied it.


The sting. Worse for Berger, the Post report undermined his "inadvertence" defense. It said that archives officials noticed documents missing after a visit to the archives by Berger last September, so they set up a sting operation, coding papers secretly so they could tell more easily which papers were missing if Berger returned. He came back October 2, according to the Post, and when he left, some marked documents were missing. The Post reports that Berger said he had made 40 to 50 pages of notes during three trips to the archives. Were these rather voluminous notes among the papers placed into his clothing, and if so, why he didn't just put the notes in the leather portfolio he brought with him on visits to the archives?


It's not yet clear what Berger was removing or why, or whether the archives have copies of everything missing. If Berger wanted to refresh his memory on matters to be raised by the 9/11 commission, presumably his notes would do that without the removal of any official document. Perhaps the "timing" argument will now work to Berger's advantage--that the 9/11 report will overwhelm the archives story and direct attention away from him. A few news outlets are playing the Berger issue as yet another left-right, Democrat-Republican partisan wrangle. That's a way of discounting a story that has to be pursued.


no mention at all of the archives exonerating berger.

[TexanBob]

I went to the radio station site. Knowing they weren't doing their own investigation, I used the search function and found the five-paragraph story that Blueflame must be talking about.

This story is from the Wall Street Journal and says that Berger has been cleared (although WSJ is a subscription website and I didn't want to subscribe so I will take their word for it that WSJ did have this story).

Then I did a Google News Search under the words "Berger" and "Cleared". This led me to two items (one NewsMax and one citing NewsMax) saying that an official with the National Archives was denying the WSJ story. There was a third item about Berger being cleared but it turned out to be a commentary, not a news item.

Normally, I would tend to treat the Wall Street Journal as a good source but I'm also curious why this story wouldn't be shouted from the rooftops by the liberal media all weekend if they believed it were true. Even out of fairness to Berger, you would think they would report this after the multiple-day story they had about him being under investigation.

So we're really left wondering if the WSJ had a bad source or if the rest of the media is uncharacteristically waiting for confirmation before running the story.

I ain't saying it is true or untrue. I'm just waiting for something that corroborates or disproves the WSJ story other than NewsMax which is obviously not impartial.

[watermock]

Taco John after another 5 years moderating the monster.

http://www.cnn.com/2000/WORLD/africa/08/26/clinton.africa/link.berger.cnn.jpg

[watermock]

It's not like "missing documents" hasn't been a staple of anyone even remotely associated with Clinton back to WhiteWater. Heck, even people wind up missing like Foster (along with documents), Ron Brown. (along with documents).

Hell, they even laughed as they did minor looting before Bush moved into the WhiteHouse.

And I agree. If this is all some sort of flim flam attack on Berger, why isn't the Kerry Camp screaming like Banshees? I would suggest they want it to go away.

[Blueflame]

followed the link, didn't get a Sandy Berger story, got a front page from KYW newsradio, but nothing on the page said anything about Berger... Did you have a direct link to the article?

If Berger was exonerated, don't you think the news outlets would be trumpeting that?

The article was on the link when I posted it, Exile. I also read that the item was printed in the Wall Street Journal, as Bob has mentioned... from what I understand, it was buried on Page 6 of Friday's edition. But I'm not subscribed to the WSJ, so I can't definitively state it.

It's nothing new for media to trumpet headlines on investigations or accusations, then bury exonerations on back pages... the lurid headline is what sells papers; not the "oh, it wasn't so bad after all"....

[TexanBob]

It's nothing new for media to trumpet headlines on investigations or accusations, then bury exonerations on back pages... the lurid headline is what sells papers; not the "oh, it wasn't so bad after all"....

I agree with you there. The media often doesn't tell you when someone caught in the harsh kleig lights is exonerated or not with 1/100th of the noise made when the allegations hit Page One.

I recall when Reagan's Secretary of Labor, Ray Donovan, was hit with allegations of bribes and kickbacks with unions in New Jersey. He was forced to resign just to focus on defending himself in court. When the grand jury concluded there was not sufficient evidence to bring him to trial, Donovan went over to the pool of reporters and yelled "who do I have to see to get my good name back?"

Ask Richard Jewell.

[Exile_In_SJ]

I wasn't doubting you blueflame, I just didn't get the article on the link. here's some updates..the investigation goes on..

'SOCKS DOCS' PROBERS PUSH ON

By DEBORAH ORIN
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

August 1, 2004 -- The criminal probe into how and why former Clinton national security adviser Sandy Berger illegally sneaked classified documents out of the National Archives is going forward despite a report that no originals are missing, officials say.
"The investigation continues. It's irrelevant whether or not there are originals missing. What matters is that removing classified documents without authorization is illegal," a government official said.

The Wall Street Journal on Friday quoted National Archives spokeswoman Susan Cooper as saying her agency is "confident" that no originals are lost — but she couldn't be reached and other officials declined to confirm that claim.

The "socks docs" probe is examining whether Berger broke the law by sneaking out documents, possibly in his socks.

The flap forced Berger to step down as a foreign-policy adviser to Democrat John Kerry a few weeks ago.

At issue are multiple drafts of a review of the millennium threat that's said to sharply rap the Clinton administration and outline 29 steps for better national security. Sources say Bill Clinton as president took only one step out of the 29.

Berger admits taking documents and unauthorized notes out of a classified reading room but says it was an "honest" mistake while vetting materials for the 9/11 commission. He says he accidentally destroyed some.

[Exile_In_SJ]

no dropping of the investigation yet? hmmm? How's the crowburger so far LABF?

[SimonFletcherRules!]

Berger to pay $50,000 for taking classified material

WASHINGTON (AP) — A judge on Thursday ordered Sandy Berger, President Clinton's national security adviser, to pay a $50,000 fine for illegally taking classified documents from the National Archives.
The punishment handed down by U.S. Magistrate Judge Deborah Robinson exceeded the $10,000 fine recommended by government lawyers. Under the deal, Berger avoids prison time but he must surrender access to classified government materials for three years.

"The court finds the fine is inadequate because it doesn't reflect the seriousness of the offense," Robinson said, as a grim-faced Berger stood silently.

Earlier in the hearing, Berger expressed remorse for his crime, which he described as a lapse of judgment that came while he was preparing to testify before the Sept. 11 commission.

"I let considerations of personal convenience override clear rules of handling classified material," Berger said. "I believe this lapse, serious as it is, does not reflect the character of myself."

"In this case, I failed. I will not again," he said.

The sentencing capped a bizarre sequence of events in which Berger admitted to sneaking classified documents out of the Archives in his suit, later destroying some of them in his office and then lying about it.

After initially saying it was an "honest mistake," Berger pleaded guilty in April to a misdemeanor of unauthorized removal and retention of classified material, which contained information relating to terror threats in the United States during the 2000 millennium celebration.

Sounds like a slap on the wrist to me. ****ing criminal

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Cutting through Simple Simon's right-wing disinformation and propaganda...

Wall Street Journal: "Berger Cleared of Withholding Material From 9/11 Commission"

http://online.wsj.com/article/0,,SB109114313710778456,00.html?mod=todays_us_page _one

Excerpt:

WAS BERGER SMEARED? Sure looks like it. The Wall Street Journal reports:

Officials looking into the removal of classified documents from the National Archives by former Clinton National Security Adviser Samuel Berger say no original materials are missing and nothing Mr. Berger reviewed was withheld from the commission investigating the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks.

Several prominent Republicans, including House Speaker Dennis Hastert and House Majority Leader Tom DeLay, have voiced suspicion that when Mr. Berger was preparing materials for the 9/11 Commission on the Clinton administration's antiterror actions, he may have removed documents that were potentially damaging to the former president's record.

The conclusion by archives officials and others would seem to lay to rest the issue of whether any information was permanently destroyed or withheld from the commission.

Archives spokeswoman Susan Cooper said officials there "are confident that there aren't any original documents missing in relation to this case." She said in most cases, Mr. Berger was given photocopies to review, and that in any event officials have accounted for all originals to which he had access.

That included all drafts of a so-called after-action report prepared by the White House and federal agencies in 2000 after the investigation into a foiled bombing plot aimed at the Millennium celebrations. That report and earlier drafts are at the center of allegations that Mr. Berger might have permanently removed some records from the archives. Some of the allegations have related to the possibility that drafts with handwritten notes on them may have disappeared, but Ms. Cooper said archives staff are confident those documents aren't missing either.

Daniel Marcus, general counsel of the 9/11 Commission, said the panel had been assured twice by the Justice Department that no originals were missing and that all of the material Mr. Berger had access to had been turned over to the commission. "We are told that the Justice Department is satisfied that we've seen everything that the archives saw," and "nothing was missing," he said.

It would have been nice for Tom DeLay, Duncan Hunter, and Dennis Hastert to withhold judgment for just a week or two before accusing Berger of deliberately pilfering documents and endangering national security for the purposes of covering up alleged intelligence snafus by the Clinton administration. And I wonder if Tom Davis will follow through with his "investigation" of Berger's dastardly deeds, now that the political usefulness of such a probe seems diminished.

This development doesn't leave Berger entirely in the clear -- it appears he still removed photocopies of classified material from the archives, and that's wrong. But I do think the commission's comments militate against the motives ascribed by Berger's critics. It looks more and more like this was an honest mistake, although, again, not one that should be taken likely.

[bendog]

I still don't get why Berger did this. He served as nat sec advisor in a dem admin, but he's worked for gop admins too. He is/was a respected pro. He was publicly pro-invasion of Iraq if there was really anything to womd or if saddam wouldn't let inspections happen. He helped plan to invade NK over womd. So the partisanship is just bs. But why would a guy like this do this to his rep? What was his motive?

[SimonFletcherRules!]

LARF, you are the propagandist. My story is from the ASSOCIATED PRESS, and is current.
He is guilty, and has to pay a big freaking fine.
Your story is old and tired, like your party line, koolaidboy.

[bendog]

hmm, apparantly he was prepping for a 9-11 enquiry. Sad.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

LARF, you are the propagandist. My story is from the ASSOCIATED PRESS, and is current.
He is guilty, and has to pay a big freaking fine.
Your story is old and tired, like your party line, koolaidboy.

:stupid:

If you had even the most basic reading comprehension skills, you'd see that the article I posted doesn't deny that Berger removed photocopies of classified material from the archives - it states that Berger was Cleared of Withholding Material From 9/11 Commission.

The article also goes on to state that "the commission's comments militate against the motives ascribed by Berger's critics. It looks more and more like this was an honest mistake..."

In other words, the commission clears Berger of the charge (made by ditto monkeys like you) that he was deliberately trying to remove or conceal some document that was somehow damaging to Clinton.

My story is from the ASSOCIATED PRESS, and is current.

You never provided a link. Why?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

LARF, you are the propagandist.

So now you're trying to claim that the Wall Street Journal, one of America's most conservative newspapers, is guilty of publishing propaganda?

rofl

[SimonFletcherRules!]

Well it was Matt Drudge mister!
one of the most widely read and well respected sources there is!

of course you will disagree, but I know for sure it's a damn sit more reliable than rap city news or whatever liberal blog site you pull your posts from without 'sourcing'. :clown: