NHL offseason, CBA, draft, etc thread

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Pierre would prove he's the best GM in the NHL if he could keep the Avs at the top after the retirement of Sakic, Foote, Blake, and Forsberg with an empty prospect corps. It'd be fun to see.

[Bronx33]

Pierre would prove he's the best GM in the NHL if he could keep the Avs at the top after the retirement of Sakic, Foote, Blake, and Forsberg with an empty prospect corps. It'd be fun to see.

This something i have been waiting to see as well filling in for forsberg (if he is gone) will be a good test.

[Breck Bronc]

Pierre would prove he's the best GM in the NHL if he could keep the Avs at the top after the retirement of Sakic, Foote, Blake, and Forsberg with an empty prospect corps. It'd be fun to see.Maybe he could trade them ala Oates, Konowalchuk, Jagr, Bondra, Gonchar, Lang, Nylander, Grier and every other NHL-calibre player on the roster for a bunch of prospects and then get lucky in the lottery to get the number one pick and draft Crosby. That'd be fun to see.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Maybe he could trade them ala Oates, Konowalchuk, Jagr, Bondra, Gonchar, Lang, Nylander, Grier and every other NHL-calibre player on the roster for a bunch of prospects and then get lucky in the lottery to get the number one pick and draft Crosby. That'd be fun to see.

or maybe he could build his franchise because one player refused to play for him? I like the Avs, but that was a **** franchise in Quebec that got built from 3 #1 overalls in 3 years with the 3rd being Lindros, and all the trades that flowed from Eric refusing to play for them.

So the Caps are kind of doing now what the Nords did 15 years ago, and Crosby is in this year's draft if there is one.

[alkemical]

Maybe he could trade them ala Oates, Konowalchuk, Jagr, Bondra, Gonchar, Lang, Nylander, Grier and every other NHL-calibre player on the roster for a bunch of prospects and then get lucky in the lottery to get the number one pick and draft Crosby. That'd be fun to see.


The pens tried something similar but took straight up prospects. Kris beech for jagr.... as example

[Bronx33]

The pens tried something similar but took straight up prospects. Kris beech for jagr.... as example



And that worked? how well?

[Hercules Rockefeller]

And that worked? how well?

Hockey is the sport where drafted players take the longest to make an impact. The Pens rebuilding has gone pretty well so far, and if there's no season giving them the best shot at the 1st overall when hockey returns, they'll really be moving in the right direction.

[Bronx33]

Hockey is the sport where drafted players take the longest to make an impact. The Pens rebuilding has gone pretty well so far, and if there's no season giving them the best shot at the 1st overall when hockey returns, they'll really be moving in the right direction.


http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/teams/stats?team=pit


Looks like they have a long road to travel but you never know another factor is coaching you can have all the talent and still fu*** up ask the rangers.i have been a big fan of chemistry without it teams dont last long.

[Breck Bronc]

Hockey is the sport where drafted players take the longest to make an impact. The Pens rebuilding has gone pretty well so far, and if there's no season giving them the best shot at the 1st overall when hockey returns, they'll really be moving in the right direction.Baseball?

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Baseball's probably the closest, but you expect more baseball guys to be ready by the time they hit 21 or 22. I think forwards would be the only NHL position where you'd expect younger players to start seeing a lot of ice time at that age.

Though I would say that more young NHL players can jump in immediately after being drafted then just drafted MLB players, but I think MLB players develop faster in the long run.

[alkemical]

And that worked? how well?

Well, it's slow. But kris beech is never going to be a scorer. He's going to be a 10-20 goal a year guy, with about 40 assists or so thrown in. he's a face off guy, with good defense - and good passing. I'd rate him (at the rate he's moving) to be about 50pt a year guy. Good on special teams too.

jagr became a serious poisen, there's a reason mario made him go.

We traded straka for some youth too, and we traded kovie and got some guys like rico fata. basically we got as much top prospects, but no proven talent.

Then they turned to drafting D - with picks like oprik & whitney. Oprik is already a team leader, and he's no where near his potential yet.

I'd say hockey players as an avg, don't hit their prime until they are... say 25 or 27.

It's painful sometimes, like last years loosing streak, but hell my team was honest on making their own cap and abiding by it.

[alkemical]

Hockey is the sport where drafted players take the longest to make an impact. The Pens rebuilding has gone pretty well so far, and if there's no season giving them the best shot at the 1st overall when hockey returns, they'll really be moving in the right direction.

Drafting MA Fluery & Malkin are steps in the right direction. We have some guys that can make up a solid corps for the rest. We need playmakers added to the roster.

But as i said before, i'd say 25-27 on avg is when a guy hits his prime.

[SoCalBronco]

i want crosby. He will be the heir to mario's throne in pittsburgh.

[alkemical]

i want crosby. He will be the heir to mario's throne in pittsburgh.


we have one potential playmaker that i've seen play, and that's ryan malone.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

i want crosby. He will be the heir to mario's throne in pittsburgh.

and Pittsburgh benefits the most from no season. They're not playoff good, but they aren't one of the 5 worst teams in the NHL that would have a shot at getting the 1st pick in the lottery. No season means the NHL has to go off of '03-04's final standings for the lottery giving Pittsburgh the best odds at #1.

Conversely, Washinton would be the worst team by far and has the most to lose (relatively) if there's no season.

[Clockwork Orange]

or maybe he could build his franchise because one player refused to play for him? I like the Avs, but that was a **** franchise in Quebec that got built from 3 #1 overalls in 3 years with the 3rd being Lindros, and all the trades that flowed from Eric refusing to play for them.

So the Caps are kind of doing now what the Nords did 15 years ago, and Crosby is in this year's draft if there is one.

Then all you'd need is for Crosby to refuse to play for you and teams to start bidding against each other until you get a Hershel Walker type deal for his rights. Worked for the Nords/Avs.

As for your prior comment about life after Sakic, Forsberg, Blake & Foote, I agree somewhat. There's bound to be a rebuilding period or at best a transition year or two in which the team will be down. I'm allright with that, they've been amongst the leagues elite for the last nine years, all great runs end eventually.

But the cupboard isn't completely bare as far as who'll be left once those big guns are gone. Milan Hejduk is on the right side of 30. Alex Tanguay is still a youngster. David Aebischer has a lot of years ahead of him. John-Michael Liles looks is a blossoming young D-man. Ossi Vaananen has all the makings of a solid stay at home D-man, and he's 23 years old. Marek Svatos has teriffic offensive ability if his shoulders hold up (major surgeries on both already), he's only 22.

The Avs have also got a couple of prospects who look promising. Wojtek Wolski is a big LW (6'3, 200) with nice scoring ability who was just named an OHL All-Star and is leading the Brampton Battallion in scoring. Brad Richardson is a center for the Owen Sound Attack (also in the OHL), is 2nd in the league in scoring, was named an All-Star and OHL player of the month for January.

Of course there's a serious need to re-stock the farm system, that will come in time. I'm pretty sure that the Avs won't be looking to deal away picks and prospects at such the rate as in past years, so the re-stocking will happen over a couple of years with some solid drafting.

Lacroix isn't perfect and he makes his share of mistakes, but he has my confidence as far as the best interests of this team. The Avs will be down eventually, but I don't think they'll be down for too long.

[Bronx33]

http://www.coloradoavalanche.com/team/InTheSystem.asp

[Hercules Rockefeller]

But the cupboard isn't completely bare as far as who'll be left once those big guns are gone. Milan Hejduk is on the right side of 30. Alex Tanguay is still a youngster. David Aebischer has a lot of years ahead of him. John-Michael Liles looks is a blossoming young D-man. Ossi Vaananen has all the makings of a solid stay at home D-man, and he's 23 years old. Marek Svatos has teriffic offensive ability if his shoulders hold up (major surgeries on both already), he's only 22.

The Avs have also got a couple of prospects who look promising. Wojtek Wolski is a big LW (6'3, 200) with nice scoring ability who was just named an OHL All-Star and is leading the Brampton Battallion in scoring. Brad Richardson is a center for the Owen Sound Attack (also in the OHL), is 2nd in the league in scoring, was named an All-Star and OHL player of the month for January.


That would have been my list. Not a bad list since everyone but Svatos and Wojtek are regular NHLers now, but it's not exactly a long list either and that's the problem.

[Breck Bronc]

Last night I learned that Tony Granato has no problem being demoted under Joel Quenneville. Some friends and I were at a bar in Littleton and at about 11:00 in comes Granato and Quenneville. I thought it was kind of funny that Joel was wearing Avalanche warm-up gear. Anyway, they had some beers with what looked to be two scouts or something.

A few people went up to their table and talked to them, and Granato couldn’t have been more accommodating, he was real nice to everyone. Quenneville usually kept talking to the other two guys with them but also didn‘t totally give people the cold shoulder.

A friend and I went up and asked them if the lockout will end on Monday or if the season will be cancelled and they said that our guess was as good as theirs. We also chatted about University of Wisconsin hockey, who was on TV last night vs. Minnesota. Granato played there for four years and we made a little bet on the Denver/Wisconsin series next weekend.

I've always like Tony as a person, not so much as a head coach, but last night really proved how good of a guy he is.

[Mtbrncofn]

You lucky bastard, Breck! Ok, so there are a few drawbacks to living in Montana. :)

And holy smokes, ames changed his avatar!! I'm in shock.

In five years or whenever this God forsaken lockout ends, I am coming back to Denver to watch my first Avs game. I'm hoping this event is sooner than later....preferably NOT a 30th birthday deal or something. That isn't too far away.

CO told me he'd go to a game with me if I ever got there. Holding you to it, CO....ya know, someday.

[Clockwork Orange]

CO told me he'd go to a game with me if I ever got there. Holding you to it, CO....ya know, someday.

So long as I'm not using a walker by the time this lockout ends, you've got a deal.:thumbsup:

[Bronx33]

I've always like Tony as a person, not so much as a head coach, but last night really proved how good of a guy he is.



I liked tony as a coach and a person but i used to hate that SOB as a player hes was rather dirty if you ask me.........but that was his style.

[Mtbrncofn]

So long as I'm not using a walker by the time this lockout ends, you've got a deal.:thumbsup:


LOL We both may be using one if this thing doesn't get resolved soon.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

This would have been the perfect weekend to cancel the season since it would have been buried with all the Super Bowl news.

I also found this surprising since after Goodenow left on Friday, both said there were no future plans to meet. Now the League came out yesterday and said they didn't meet this weekend, and have no plans to meet in the future. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but that second statement seems completely unnecessary since they said the exact same thing on Friday, especially if the situation hasn't changed. Almost like a pre-emptive strike against any possible leaks.

[alkemical]

You lucky bastard, Breck! Ok, so there are a few drawbacks to living in Montana. :)

And holy smokes, ames changed his avatar!! I'm in shock.

In five years or whenever this God forsaken lockout ends, I am coming back to Denver to watch my first Avs game. I'm hoping this event is sooner than later....preferably NOT a 30th birthday deal or something. That isn't too far away.

CO told me he'd go to a game with me if I ever got there. Holding you to it, CO....ya know, someday.


yeah i changed it - i still have the other one!

[bronco militia]

http://denver.rockymountainnews.com/drew/021105drew.gif

[Mtbrncofn]

Yeah, Happy f*ckin Valentine's Day. :cuss:

[BizzyBone7]

well the players agreed to a cap...

http://tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?id=114925

NEW YORK (CP) - The No. 1 issue that has plagued the NHL lockout went out the window Monday night when the NHL Players' Association offered a deal that included a $52-million US salary cap.



But the deal was rejected by the NHL.



The surprising move was made by NHLPA senior director Ted Saskin during his secret meeting with NHL executive vice-president Bill Daly in Niagara Falls, N.Y.



According to an NHLPA statement, Daly began the process Monday by offering a $40-million salary cap without ''linkage'' - a fixed link between player costs and league revenues, which has long been the centrepiece of the NHL's bid for cost certainty.



The union counter-offered with the $52-million team-by-team salary cap. The players' proposal also featured more aggressive payroll tax thresholds and tax rates on team payrolls.



''It is indeed unfortunate that with the major steps taken by both sides today we were unable to build enough momentum to reach an agreement,'' Saskin said in a statement released early Tuesday morning.



The union's offer also included the 24 per cent salary rollback on all existing contracts.



These latest developments came as the NHL announced a news conference for Wednesday at 1 p.m. EST in New York when commissioner Gary Bettman is expected to announce the cancellation of the 2004-2005 season.



While no talks were planned for Tuesday, the fact that both sides made dramatic moves from their longstanding positions Monday night could spur on more last-ditch efforts to save the season.



As it stands, the players have finally accepted a salary cap for the first time in their history while the league gave up on linkage. Now the two sides are separated by $12 million on their cap figures. And with the rollback, two-thirds of the league's teams would be under $40 million.



But is it too late?



Earlier on Monday night, the league sent out a statement saying talks between Daly and Saskin produced ''no progress.''



Bettman's news conference was originally slated for Tuesday, according to a source, but pushed back a day as Daly and Saskin met late into the night.



It all made for a roller-coaster day.



''I've said all along, until someone tells me it's over, it's not,'' Devils GM and CEO Lou Lamoriello said from his New Jersey office Monday. ''It's too easy to be negative.



''There's no question we have something scheduled at this point for Wednesday. It's looking very bleak right now but it's not over.''



The Devils boss also offered some advice.



''To me, let's get rid of all these buzz words (salary cap, luxury tax) and get something done that works for everybody,'' he said.



Should the worst happen Wednesday, the NHL will become the first major professional league in North America to cancel an entire season from start to finish. But Bettman says the damage the NHL will suffer as a result is worth it in order to get ''cost certainty'' for his owners.



The NHL and the union met for more than five hours with U.S. federal mediators in Washington on Sunday but still could not make any progress. Bettman and NHLPA executive director Bob Goodenow were not at the meeting. Daly, the NHL's executive vice-president and chief legal officer, and outside counsel Bob Batterman represented the league while Saskin, the NHLPA's senior director, and outside counsel John McCambridge were there for the union.



So much of the season has already been scrapped. Through Monday, 824 of the 1,230 regular-season games have gone by the wayside.



If an agreement can still be reached, the league has a shortened schedule ready to go that would see teams play 28 regular-season games, playing only within their conference. The playoffs would stay the same and consist of four rounds.

-----------------------------------
i dont see why they cant meet in the middle of say 46 or 47 million if thats the only hold up.

[Bronx33]

http://www.ournhl.com/

[Bronx33]

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?ID=115107&hubName=nhl

[Bronx33]

The following letter was sent to the NHL from the NHLPA:



Dear Gary,

Yesterday afternoon, Bill Daly presented us with an offer from the
League
that, for the first time, was not linked to League-wide revenues. We
appreciated your willingness to adjust your position and we worked to
respond in kind. By evening, we had fashioned and reached out to you
with an
offer from the PA that included, for the first time, a team maximum
cap.
This offer built upon the 24% rollback and other changes in favour of
clubs,
which were presented by the Players on December 9, 2004.

As you know, and as Ted told Bill, our offer of a team cap represented
a
radical step for the PA. We took this step because we too believe that
our
sport will be damaged greatly by the cancellation of this season and
the
continuation of the lockout through next season.

We wish that the NHL had offered a “no linkage” proposal before
yesterday so
that negotiations in that arena could have commenced sooner. However,
we
recognize that they did not and we agree that time is short.

In that spirit, and in a final attempt to reach an agreement, we are
adjusting our offer of yesterday in two respects. First, we are
reducing the
maximum individual team cap to $49 million in salary, which does not
include
the $2.2 million per team in benefits due.

Second, we will adjust our exception provision so that it is available
to
teams only twice during the six year term and for up to only 10% over
the
limit of $49 million (to $53.9 million), at the tax rate of 150%. The
exception provision is important so that a successful team does not
have to
arbitrarily dismantle its roster after it has achieved particular
success or
is in a unique phase of its player roster cycle.

I have attached a short summary of the main deal points discussed by
Bill
and Ted yesterday, as modified above.

I can be reached at the usual phone numbers.

Regards,
NATIONAL HOCKEY LEAGUE
PLAYERS’ ASSOCIATION
Robert W. Goodenow
Executive Director & General Counsel


NEW CBA DEAL POINTS:

1. Term - 6 full seasons (through 9-15-11).

2. CBA System – Incorporation of NHLPA December 9, 2004 proposal into
the
recently expired CBA, with indexing of financial provisions (per diems,
etc.) at 2% per year, with the following additional changes requested
by the
NHL yesterday:

(a) Increased salary arbitration rights for Clubs -- to be agreed upon.
Salary arbitration available after Player leaves Entry Level System.

(b) Cap on Exhibit 5 Individual B Performance Bonuses -- to be agreed
upon.

(c) Replace NHLPA Revenue Sharing Plan with NHL Revenue Sharing Plan to
share at least $88M in each year of the Agreement. Clubs may credit any
payroll taxes paid against their revenue sharing contribution.

3. Team Payroll Limit - $49M in salary and bonuses

4. Minimum Team Payroll - $25M (each team can fall no more than 10%
below
only twice during term).

5. Minimum Player Salary - $300K (as per NHL Proposal)

6.Payroll Taxes - $40M - $43M (25%), $43M - $46M (50%), $46M - $49M
(75%),
$49M - $53.9M (150%) – only twice per team during 6 year term

7. Indexing of Tax Rates and Payroll Minimums & Maximums – All dollar
amounts would be in place for 2004-05 (pro-rated) and 2005-06. Dollar
levels
for tax rates, payroll minimums & maximums for subsequent years either
constant or increased by % change in greater of either hockey related
revenues or only the gate receipts and broadcasting segments of hockey
related revenues from the 2005-06 base year.

8. 2005 Playoffs – 55% of playoff revenues to be paid to Players for
the
2005 playoffs.





...and yet another response from the NHL to the NHLPA:

- - -

Mr. Robert Goodenow
Executive Director
National Hockey League Players’ Association
Toronto, Ontario


Dear Bob:

It was disappointing to receive the fax of your "final" offer.

We would have been prepared to propose and negotiate over a "de-linked"
maximum team salary sooner, but the NHLPA had been consistent in
stating
that the players would never accept a salary cap. We only learned in
the
mediation process on Sunday that you would entertain such an offer,
which is
why we asked for a meeting yesterday and made the "de-linked" proposal.

If every team spent to the $49 million level you have proposed, total
player
compensation would exceed what we spent last season and, assuming for
discussion purposes, there was no damage to the game, our player
compensation costs would exceed 75% of revenues. We cannot afford your
proposal.

Our offer of earlier today was a $75 million increase over the offer we
made
yesterday. I hope you will accept it, and that we can move forward and
negotiate the myriad of other issues that need to be addressed.

Sincerely,

Gary B. Bettman
Commissioner

[Mtbrncofn]

What they really want to say to each other:

Dear Gary,

Go **** yourself.

Sincerely, Bob



Dear Bob,

Same to you, asshole.

Sincerely, Gary

[Bronx33]

What they really want to say to each other:

Dear Gary,

Go **** yourself.

Sincerely, Bob



Dear Bob,

Same to you, asshole.

Sincerely, Gary


Thats what i read!