NHL offseason, CBA, draft, etc thread

[Mtbrncofn]

Wow, the Yotes are going crazy this offseason. Did they not get the memo about the looming lockout?

They are signing some pretty decent guys left and right it seems to me. They signed Nedved today, and sent Daymond Langkow to Calgary and got Denis Gauthier and Oleg Saprykin in exchange. Sounds like a decent deal to me.

I guess they are sick of sitting at the bottom of the standings, but as someone mentioned earlier, they keep getting all this help in these areas, and their goaltending seems to be the most suspect.

[Clockwork Orange]

Can we get a mod to move this to the other sports board?

Thanks in advance.:)

[FADERPROOF]

Can we get a mod to move this to the other sports board?

Thanks in advance.:)

No :)

[Mtbrncofn]

Thanks, DF!

[Tredici]

Looking bad for a season at this point.

Interesting tidbit when the lawyer for the NHL says something about not negotiating but instead talking about three teams.

Hmmmm... if I had to guess? Detroit, Colorado and Dallas.

[Clockwork Orange]

I would guess NY Rangers, Detroit & Dallas myself. All have high payrolls and are known for being very active (and at times very frivelous) in the free agent market.

[Mr]

August 27, 2004
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v152/Canucklehead74/prov_front.jpg


Todd Bertuzzi, accompanied by his wife Julie and his lawyer Len Doust, is escorted by sheriffs into the Provincial Court building in Vancouver yesterday. Bertuzzi pleaded not guilty to an assault charge.




With four words, Canucks star Todd Bertuzzi dropped the gloves yesterday for a courtroom battle over his assault charge.

"Not guilty, your honour," Bertuzzi said at his 10-minute arraignment in Vancouver Provincial Court.

He is charged with assault causing bodily harm after a March 8 on-ice incident left Steve Moore of the Colorado Avalanche with a broken neck and concussion.

Bertuzzi's plea was the first public statement he has made since his tearful apology to Moore in March. He said nothing else in court yesterday, and remained stone-faced while entering and exiting the courthouse through a gauntlet of 45 media people and 10 TV cameras.

The 29-year-old star left winger was not required to attend the arraignment, and Judge William Kitchen gave him points for showing up.

"Mr. Bertuzzi, it is good to see you today," Kitchen said. "I appreciate that."

The star's wife, Julie, held his hand while he walked in and out of court, and Canucks GM Dave Nonis sat beside her in the courtroom.

"I'm here for Todd," Nonis said outside court, declining to say more.

Bertuzzi, wearing a blue pinstriped suit, brown shoes and a striped shirt with no tie, towered over his diminutive lawyer Len Doust.

Kitchen questioned Crown counsel Garth Loeppky about witnesses expected.

"At this point I'm anticipating to call several players," Loeppky said. "There will be league officials, and some medical evidence. I'm anticipating some game officials as well."

He will also introduce game tapes as evidence, he said.

A dispute between NHL team owners and players could mean no hockey this season, but if the situation is resolved, logistical problems may arise for the trial, Kitchen said.

"If the season went ahead, many of the witnesses could be scattered around," he noted.

Loeppky responded that more information about the season would be available in about a week.

Setting the trial date was put off until Wednesday. The trial is expected to take three weeks, Crown and defence lawyers told Kitchen.

Outside court, Vancouver Technical student Katie Gingera, 15, was among only a handful of fans who came to show support.

"I don't think it's about liking him as a player," Gingera said. "I think it's about whether or not he should go to jail or if there should even be a trial. I don't think what he did was right, but people should realize he's already been punished by the NHL."

The Crown will proceed by summary conviction, which means there will be no preliminary hearing and the trial will be by judge alone. A summary conviction also means the maximum penalty Bertuzzi could face is 18 months in jail.

Avalanche spokesman Hayne Ellis said yesterday Moore's status "is still unchanged and he's still [undergoing rehabilitation]."

"He has not been medically cleared for anything," said Ellis, adding that Moore, now an unrestricted free agent, has been dividing his time recently between Denver and Massachusetts for his rehabilitation.

At the Team Canada training camp in Ottawa, Avalanche captain Joe Sakic expressed regret that the case was going to court.

[Tredici]

I would guess NY Rangers, Detroit & Dallas myself. All have high payrolls and are known for being very active (and at times very frivelous) in the free agent market.

Detroit and Dallas still operate in the black, though. The third one is Colorado.

(Maybe everyone just wants those three to revenue share.. Ha)

[-Slap-]

Phoenix still has a hole in goal. Boucher had that shutout streak last year, but aside from that he was anywhere from mediocre to downright awful. Bierk appears to be a capable #2 at this point, but no way is he ready to lead a team on a playoff push.


Boucher's streak last year was downright freaky. That was just the most extreme example of a mediocre player getting into The Zone and staying there.

[Clockwork Orange]

And the lockout has officially begun.

It's gonna be a long winter, then probably a long spring, summer and another winter after that before we might see hockey again.

It's a shame, but so be it. The recent ratings for reruns of The World Series of Poker were 4 times higher than the ratings garnered by the World Cup of Hockey.

Let's see what those ratings look like after a year or so of hibernation.

[Mtbrncofn]

Damnit, CO. Here I am trying to hold out hope that this won't last THAT long and there you go with that post!

You really think its going to last that long? This is ridiculous. What a bunch of uncaring, greedy assholes.

[alkemical]

mario said that both sides need to realize they are a team

[Clockwork Orange]

Damnit, CO. Here I am trying to hold out hope that this won't last THAT long and there you go with that post!

You really think its going to last that long? This is ridiculous. What a bunch of uncaring, greedy assholes.

I find it hard to hold out hope due to the fact that this lockout has been talked about, analyzed and debated for the last 2 years.....yet nothing, I repeat, nothing has been done to prevent it. There was ample time to work out an agreement, yet the two sides never even came to the bargaining table until a month ago. There was never a sense of urgency from either side. I find that discouraging.

The players recently drew up a new proposal and it was rejected by the owners before they even read it. It didn't include a cap so the owners weren't interested. When the sides are that far apart I find it hard to be optimistic.

Terry Frei of The Denver Post was on Fox Sports last night and he said that he believes that there are a faction of owners who are willing to compromise (he named the Avalanche, Red Wings and Rangers specifically), but he also said that there's a faction of owners who want to lose an entire season in order to rid themselves of a year of "bothersome contracts." I'll go out on a limb here and guess that "Dollar" Bill Wirtz of Chicago and Jeremy Jacobs of Boston are the ringleaders of that group.

The fact that there are owners who seemingly want to lose a season makes the situation look even more hopeless.

Not nearly as hopeless as the attempts to draw ratings and new fans once the lockout does end, but the no one other than the current die hard fans seem to be too concerned about that.

As I've said, they're digging their own grave.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

I find it hard to hold out hope due to the fact that this lockout has been talked about, analyzed and debated for the last 2 years.....yet nothing, I repeat, nothing has been done to prevent it. There was ample time to work out an agreement, yet the two sides never even came to the bargaining table until a month ago. There was never a sense of urgency from either side. I find that discouraging.

The players recently drew up a new proposal and it was rejected by the owners before they even read it. It didn't include a cap so the owners weren't interested. When the sides are that far apart I find it hard to be optimistic.

Terry Frei of The Denver Post was on Fox Sports last night and he said that he believes that there are a faction of owners who are willing to compromise (he named the Avalanche, Red Wings and Rangers specifically), but he also said that there's a faction of owners who want to lose an entire season in order to rid themselves of a year of "bothersome contracts." I'll go out on a limb here and guess that "Dollar" Bill Wirtz of Chicago and Jeremy Jacobs of Boston are the ringleaders of that group.

The fact that there are owners who seemingly want to lose a season makes the situation look even more hopeless.

Not nearly as hopeless as the attempts to draw ratings and new fans once the lockout does end, but the no one other than the current die hard fans seem to be too concerned about that.

As I've said, they're digging their own grave.
My opinion is the league can't survive without a salary cap so in that respect I guess I take the owners side. The players need to realize that NHL hockey won't be played again until they accept that fact and then negotiate from there. If they don't then the owners will say so long to this season and break the union.

[Mtbrncofn]

I don't see what's so bad about having a cap and the luxury tax put in place. The NHLPA was so quick to jump on Steve Thomas' ass when he suggested the both sides look at the NFL and the NBA to see how their system works. These people need to realize they get to play a GAME they love for a living. How many people get to live out that dream, plus make millions on the deal?

This whole thing just sickens me. I was just thinking, there is money lost to so many other people besides the NHL. I was thinking, I saved $200 right off the bat this year, because I won't be renewing my Hockey News subscription and obviously I won't be paying for Center Ice this year.

[Clockwork Orange]

I've saved at least $500 myself. $350 (or more) usually spent on tickets and $150 for Center Ice.

DU hockey starts next month. I get University of Minnesota games on digital cable. I'll get enough of a hockey fix from the college kids.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Pretty much figured this is what he'd do.

-----------------
Forsberg says he'll play for Swedish club Modo, even if lockout ends
STOCKHOLM (CP) - Colorado Avalanche centre Peter Forsberg said Saturday he will play the entire upcoming season for Swedish club Modo regardless of whether the NHL lockout is resolved.

Forsberg is the latest Swede to return to the Elite League because of the impasse over the NHL's collective bargaining agreement that led owners to lock out the players earlier this week.

Unlike most others, however, the five-time NHL all-star said he will not return to North America even if part of the season is saved.

"It feels best this way," Forsberg said at a news conference in his native Ornskoldsvik. "I've always said that I'll play one more year for Modo Hockey, and now we're here."
The terms of his one-year contract were not disclosed.

Forsberg, 31, started his career in 1989 playing for Modo's junior teams, before jumping to the Elite League team as a teenager in 1991. His contract with the Avalanche expired this summer, making him an unrestricted free agent. He left the window open for returning to the NHL next year or beyond.

"I wouldn't say the circle has been completed," Forsberg said. "We'll see what happens later."
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/cpress/20040918/ca_pr_on_ho/hky_forsberg_sweden_1

[Mtbrncofn]

Not surprising. I was betting on that one since our untimely exit from the playoffs. Have fun and stay healthy, Pete. We're ready to see you back in action HERE next year.

Damnit, why can't the MoDo games be televised?

[alkemical]

Hey do you guys think that part of the problem with the US in the world cup, is there were alot of the 'nagano' boys who just don't care about the game....


these guys are killing hockey. I feel bad for guys that love the sport and want to play.

Those of you who are avs fans, i'm going to go see alot of the hershey bears this year. And probably some of the wilkes-barre pens (why not, it's like seeing the NHL pens :) )

[Mtbrncofn]

Hey do you guys think that part of the problem with the US in the world cup, is there were alot of the 'nagano' boys who just don't care about the game....


Completely agree with you there, ames. A lot of our boys were shameful representing us. Especially Brett ( I don't give a f*ck about the fans ) Hull and Chris ( I'm too much of a poor sport to shake my opponent's hand ) Chelios.

these guys are killing hockey. I feel bad for guys that love the sport and want to play.

Those of you who are avs fans, i'm going to go see alot of the hershey bears this year. And probably some of the wilkes-barre pens (why not, it's like seeing the NHL pens :) )




And hey ames....no need to rub that sh*t in to those of us who can't get to stuff like that. ;)

[Clockwork Orange]

The most glaring problem with USA hockey is simply a lack of young talent. We've got older guys who can still play (Modano, Tkachuk, Leetch, Roenick, etc.) as does Team Canada (Sakic, Foote, Niedermeyer, Lemieux). But Canada also has guys like Dany Heatley, Rick Nash, Vincent Lecavalier, Joe Thornton and Roberto Luongo amongst others who are not only good enough to play now, but who ensure that the future of Canadian hockey in international competition is pretty bright. The Americans don't have that going for them right now.

But there is hope. With the US winning gold at the World Junior Championships this year and the eventual ascension of guys like Zach Parise (New Jersey), Keith Ballard (Phoenix) and Al Montoya (NY Rangers), there are at least a few bright spots on the horizon.

But if these guys don't pan out, we'll be in a group with Belarus before long.

[alkemical]

And hey ames....no need to rub that sh*t in to those of us who can't get to stuff like that. ;)


That's one thing to being on the east coast. Is i'm close to all sorts of hockey, ECHL, AHL, and some other HL's... :)

You are in montanna, right? Yeah you might be better off going to canada - you're closer :)

The baby pens signed a bunch of guys from the pens roster, and marc-fluery is playing for the baby pens! So i'll get to see him...

I'll be interested in seeing the bears play, i usually catch about 10 games a year

[alkemical]

The most glaring problem with USA hockey is simply a lack of young talent. We've got older guys who can still play (Modano, Tkachuk, Leetch, Roenick, etc.) as does Team Canada (Sakic, Foote, Niedermeyer, Lemieux). But Canada also has guys like Dany Heatley, Rick Nash, Vincent Lecavalier, Joe Thornton and Roberto Luongo amongst others who are not only good enough to play now, but who ensure that the future of Canadian hockey in international competition is pretty bright. The Americans don't have that going for them right now.

But there is hope. With the US winning gold at the World Junior Championships this year and the eventual ascension of guys like Zach Parise (New Jersey), Keith Ballard (Phoenix) and Al Montoya (NY Rangers), there are at least a few bright spots on the horizon.

But if these guys don't pan out, we'll be in a group with Belarus before long.


actually -

The pens have Ryan (i think) whitney & brooks oprik for D - both are good - and that's not just homer talk. Ryan left college and was playing on the baby pens D for the playoffs and caught up with everyone in a few games. Brooks is more of a stay at home type, but he's just brutal....

Ryan malone, keep an eye on him (if there is ever hockey) - Good player, put up a good bit of pts for being a rook on the pens (had like 25goals, 4GW's)

Andy Ferrence (cal) D i think he's american (he used to play for the pens) -

no-one in the 'elite' catagory yet... but i think USA hockey is better than we think...

[Breck Bronc]

USA Hockey is going to be led in the future by their defenseman and goalies. There are no truly dynamic forwards coming up that comapre to the "golden generation" of Modano, Hull, Guerin, Tkachuk, Amonte, Roenick and a few others.

I think the goaltending will be very good in the future, I really like Rick DiPietro, Ryan Miller, Al Montoya, and Robert Esche. We'll never touch Quebec in goaltending, let alone all of Canada, but we can probably have the second best netminding group in the world. Finland does look pretty good with Kiprusoff, Toskala, and Kari Lehotnen.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Hockey's Future Organizational Rankings

30-21
http://www.hockeysfuture.com/article.php?sid=7220&mode=threaded&order=0

20-11
http://www.hockeysfuture.com/article.php?sid=7223&mode=threaded&order=0

10-1
http://www.hockeysfuture.com/article.php?sid=7228&mode=threaded&order=0

[Clockwork Orange]

Those prospects might be middle-aged before we see hockey again.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

naaah we'll just have to find ways to listen to the AHL, OHL, etc. online

[Clockwork Orange]

If they make it available, I'm there. :thumbsup:

[alkemical]

wow my pens got some nice reviews

[Mtbrncofn]

You are in montanna, right? Yeah you might be better off going to canada - you're closer :)




That's my plan if hockey ever gets going again. I think its about a 4 hour trip from here to Calgary. I'll take what I can get. I'd love to go to Vancouver for a game of course, but I'd prefer to leave the place in one piece.

I gotta get my first "in person" game in somewhere. At the rate the lockout is going, it will be my 30th birthday present. :gripe:

[alkemical]

LOL

It does suck. If the NHL doesn't watch, the one sport that i think can take it's spot.... lacrosse -

I'm about 10hrs from toronto - 8.5hrs from niagra. But like i said i got lots of AHL & ECHL around me that i can soak it up.

Man i love hockey

[Mtbrncofn]

Man I love hockey too. We should be celebrating training camps and preseason games, but nooooo...instead we have to sit here and wonder when we will even get to see NHL hockey again.

:cuss:

[alkemical]

no doot aboot it

[Boogerboots]

That's my plan if hockey ever gets going again. I think its about a 4 hour trip from here to Calgary. I'll take what I can get. I'd love to go to Vancouver for a game of course, but I'd prefer to leave the place in one piece.

I gotta get my first "in person" game in somewhere. At the rate the lockout is going, it will be my 30th birthday present. :gripe:

If you prefer, there's still Junior hockey from the WHL. It's not the same calibre as the NHL but you do get to see the future hockey stars. Spokane Chiefs and the Tri-City Americans both have pretty good hockey clubs. Not sure how far of a drive that is from your part of Montana to Washington state though.

[Mtbrncofn]

Hey thanks for the heads up, Booger. I'll consider that. Washington is a pretty easy drive for me.

[Clockwork Orange]

http://www.mccanner.com/SiteGraphics/DumbDumber.jpg

A pox on you both.

[Clockwork Orange]

Ever the optimist (and Boston homer) John Buccigross still believes there will be NHL hockey this season and that it'll be the players who cave.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/columns/story?columnist=buccigross_john&id=1914050

Bob Goodenow is losing his grip on his union.

While we've mostly heard lower-salaried players publicly state that they'd accept some form of salary cap, privately, some higher-salaried veterans are also losing confidence in their poker-faced union head.

During the last week, I learned that one future Hall of Famer believes that he and some fellow players could get a deal done themselves. That the issues and math is rather elementary and with a good hard week of arrogant-free give and take, a deal could be made rather easily. This is a well-connected player who likely, um, shares these feelings with other NHL players.

The NHLPA and its 30 player representatives will meet with Goodenow on Tuesday to ask questions about what to do next. Publicly, they will say they are unified and will never accept a hard salary cap. But behind the closed doors, questions will inevitably be asked by those who have the courage to ask them.

Why haven't there been any talks? Do you really think Bill Daly and Ted Saskin were within cross-checking distance of each other and DIDN'T talk about the CBA? Goodenow will sell this right off the bat in an attempt to appease and immediately quell and control his base. Goodenow is much like a presidential candidate in this process. His base is his most precious commodity; without it, a candidate has no chance. Goodenow's base is the guy in that $2.5-4.5 million a year range. He doesn't really care about Chris Clark of the Calgary Flames and doesn't have much need for Toronto Maple Leafs defenseman Brian Leetch. Clark doesn't make the average and Leetch is on his way out the door soon. Those guys don't matter when figuring Goodenow's longevity as a millionaire union head.

What really is the evil of a salary cap?
Nearly every NHL player, except perhaps the ones getting postgame "massages" in Europe, saw this quote from Miami Dolphins fullback Rob Konrad in the South Florida Sun- Sentinel: "After studying it the last couple years, I think [the salary cap's] a good system and I like what we've done ... So I think the cap is fair as long as it's regulated and as long as it's moved percentage wise with the revenues that are coming in."

Konrad has a business degree from Syracuse University, owns a brokerage company, and manages the money of a number of NHL players, including some Florida Panthers. So, if he said this publicly, you can imagine what he is saying privately, especially to his clients.

What are we gaining while we lose money?
Every two weeks, a guy making $2 million is losing an $80,000 a paycheck, that's AFTER taxes and that's $80,000 he'll never see again. That total is now at $240,000. And since we know there are no games in November, that puts them down $400,000. Players sense the owners have the upper hand right now and have won the PR war. There is nothing an NHL player can say that one fan can empathize with. That is the reality. And the lack of concern for the fans by the players has sealed that fate. Words will not win fans back, actions will. Players realize this. Their morale is shrinking as they realize they are obliterating a way of life like few others in the world. Meanwhile, a few good men are in Europe living a life not to far from the life they are sacrificing. The whole "crusade" is becoming pathetic and downright laughable. Players realize this. They will NOT sacrifice a season or a season and a half while Joe Thornton and Rick Nash get grapes fed to them by Miss Switzerland after a 12-9 win over the Kloten Flyers.

It's not all about the money, is it?
The Boston Red Sox' World Series run MUST have had an effect on NHL players. THAT is why they play the games -- the passion, togetherness and fun. While a small percentage of athletes are driven by money and glory, nearly every athlete is driven by what they saw in the Red Sox' locker room. A tight group of teammates bonded forever by rising to the challenge and making history. The Red Sox checked their egos at the door and became a unit. THAT's how you do extraordinary things -- on the field or off. There has to be some assimilation, some sacrifice and some humility. Now, that special bond and connection will likely be torn asunder by agents and the MLBPA. I mean, Jason Varitek, do you stay in Boston for $8 million a year or go to some foreign clubhouse for 20 percent more? I've said it before, it's like the guy who LOVES living in San Diego and being a golf pro. He's successful and popular. But a golf course in a rainy and cold climate offers him $120,000, or 20 percent more than he's making, with no promise of success or happiness. It's maddening that athletes let other people control their happiness. This is the real evil of agents. Find out your market value? Fine. But make a decision based on happiness and contentment.

It's time for the NHL player to take control of their lives. They need to realize the window of their wonderful life begins to close the minute it opens. Every day is precious, and while it's OK to fight for an injustice, it's also not OK to fight a losing battle. It hurts EVERYONE. That's what's happening here. Times are different. The world is shaky. There is still economic uncertainty. The United States has uniformed citizens dying almost daily. When Trevor Linden talks, NO ONE IS LISTENING. An unfair advantage for the billionaire owner? Perhaps. But that is the playing field right now.

Again, I have no problem with every NHL player being a millionaire; I have a problem with it making them arrogant and self-important. Leave those qualities for Bill Wirtz. We root for these players because we LIKE them. We spend our hard-earned money on them -- tickets, hockey cards, video games, etc. -- because we IDENTIFY with them. We scream our lungs out at the rink, because we want to HELP them and be part of something. We do all of this because we could see HANGING out with them and being their neighbors. NHL players are losing that quality.

That was the magic and attraction of the Red Sox. Starting with Varitek and right on down the line, these were guys you could see hanging out with. Fun, tough, young, and likeable. HOCKEY PLAYERS! Imagine that, baseball players becoming more fun and more down to earth than hockey players! But, guess what? It's happened. NHLers may have held the title in the 1980s or early '90s, but the days of the hockey player being the outright coolest and easiest athlete to deal with is WAYYY overrated. The NHL is now sprinkled with spoiled, lazy, millionaire 20ish year olds. They are like the boring, uninteresting people on "Friends." Empty, poseurs, without heart. The average NHL player is realizing this because, above all, they are blessed with good instincts. They may not know the idiosyncrasies and details of collective bargaining, but they realize when things are slipping away. And things are slipping away.

I've always been convinced this season would not be canceled. Now, I'm even more certain. The players will see to that. And that will make them more likable right off the bat.

Let's go boys, save the season. We're counting on you. We know you have it in you.
-------------------

Of course this is the same guy who refers to Chris Drury as "hockey gawd" and blasted the Avalanche for having the audacity to trade him. Don't get me wrong, I like Drury, he's a nice player, but he's probably the most overrated player to ever wear an Avs sweater.

Damn, I miss talking hockey as much as I miss watching it.

Despite Bucci's optimism, I'm still convinced that it'll be this time next year before we see NHL action again. It appears as though I'm not alone. An ESPN.com poll that asks if there will be a 2004-05 season has got 35,000+ votes thus far and 89.5% say no. Ouch.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Info gap shows in NHL dispute

Conversations this week with two NHL players, Colorado's Antti Laaksonen and the Wild's Wes Walz, suggest that the NHL Players Association is giving its membership misleading information regarding the labor models proposed by the NHL.

Negotiations broke off Sept. 9, leading to a lockout that is now 50 days old.

Both Walz and Laaksonen said they have been told by the union that the league's goal of creating a relationship between revenue and salaries is inextricably linked to eliminating guaranteed contracts.

This issue came up Monday when Laaksonen was asked by phone why he stands behind the union's position.

"My reason, if there is a cap, there's no guaranteed contracts," he said. "... Players should know a cap system is not a guaranteed-contracts [system]."

NHL officials say this is completely inaccurate.

So either league negotiators never mentioned this no-guaranteed-contracts caveat to the media, or NHLPA Executive Director Bob Goodenow is not telling his guys the facts as they stand.

"Totally the latter," NHL chief legal officer Bill Daly said by e-mail Wednesday. "We have heard that the union has been telling its players that. We have never even discussed the issue of guaranteed contracts with the union.

"Nonguaranteed contracts are a product of history in the NFL and long predated the introduction of the [NFL] salary cap (1993). And the NBA's salary cap has had no impact on that league's ability to employ guaranteed contracts.

"It's all baloney."

Goodenow -- who on Tuesday said there were "no cracks or divisiveness" in the union -- did not return a call seeking comment.

Daly, in a phone conversation that followed his Wednesday e-mail, was asked why he has not gone public with this information.

"Because we're not entirely privy to what [union leadership] tell the players," Daly said. "I don't want to suggest the union lies to the players.

"I can say to the extent the union is suggesting that we have proposed the elimination of guaranteed contracts or that it necessarily comes from the type of system we've proposed, that would be incorrect."

Walz, meanwhile, was one of about 75 NHL players in attendance at a union meeting Tuesday in Toronto.

Asked if his understanding was that league proposals have included only nonguaranteed contracts, Walz said, "Yes. ... We're being told, we know caps are linked to nonguaranteed contracts."

The NHL, in its proposals, has sought to pay players a percentage of leaguewide, hockey-related revenue. Based on 2002-03 financial data, the percentage the NHL has proposed computes to a $31 million payroll per team. This can be referred to as a cap. NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman has preferred to call this cost certainty.

The league has said the percentage of hockey-related revenue the players should receive is negotiable. Additionally, the size of the players' share could change as league revenue fluctuates year to year. In the NFL, for example, the cap was initially set at $34.6 million in 1994. Because of revenue growth, it is now $80.6 million.

Asked what he'd think of a system that provides players a percentage of revenue while still allowing for guaranteed contracts, Walz said: "If they threw something like that at us, we'd have to look at that."


http://www.startribune.com/stories/1405/5067600.html

[Mtbrncofn]

Of course this is the same guy who refers to Chris Drury as "hockey gawd" and blasted the Avalanche for having the audacity to trade him. Don't get me wrong, I like Drury, he's a nice player, but he's probably the most overrated player to ever wear an Avs sweater.

Damn, I miss talking hockey as much as I miss watching it.

Despite Bucci's optimism, I'm still convinced that it'll be this time next year before we see NHL action again. It appears as though I'm not alone. An ESPN.com poll that asks if there will be a 2004-05 season has got 35,000+ votes thus far and 89.5% say no. Ouch.


Again...this whole thing just plain ol sucks. What the hell am I going to do when football is over? I will have nothing! Granted, racing will start up soon thereafter, but I want HOCKEY! On the other hand, I just got the holiday NHL.com catalog and the stuff has gone way down. No time like now to stock up. They'll come back SOMEday, right?

Also thoughts go out to teammates and family of Sergei Zholtok who unexpectedly died at age 31.

[Boogerboots]

It appears that the last chance for saving this season right now, lies in the hands of all things, a group of player agents. The player agents are set to meet with union leader Bob Goodenow later this month.

The Meeting (http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Hockey/NHL/2004/10/31/695101-cp.html) is slated to take place in Toronto, November 17th. Player agents IMHO are one of the main reasons why we're here right now but they may play the role of heroes if they can convince Goodenow to unthaw the frozen negotiations.

If players don't get paid, neither do the agents. And since the agents are not members of the players union, they are in a better position to speak candidly about the lack of progress with the lockout. Let's hope that the agents can get the ball rolling!

[Clockwork Orange]

Agents are a part of the reason, but the main reason is the owners themselves. You've got a handful of owners who don't seem to have the capacity to show any financial restraint. There are several, but the ones that stick out the most to me are the NY Rangers and Dallas Stars. The Rangers have had a long standing nasty habit of not only being major players in the UFA market (which there's nothing wrong with if you ask me), but for grossly overpaying for free agents, thus setting the bar higher for everyone else. Dallas has repeatedly been guilty as well.

Look at some of the $$ they've doled out over the years. The Rangers gave Bobby Holik $45 million over 5 years. Bobby Holik, a player who has never scored 30 goals or amassed 70 points in a season is suddenly worth $9 million per season? His defensive play aint that friggin' good. The list goes on. $9 million per season for Lindros. $4 million per season for Valerina Kamensky. $3 million per season for Sylvain Lefebvre. $3 million per season for Tim Taylor. $4.75 million per season for Darius Kasparaitis. All of these guys are solid-pretty good players, but not a damn one of them was, or is, worth what the Rangers shelled out for them on the open market.

Dallas hasn't been as active, but they've still doled out a lot of $$ for some guys who weren't exactly up to snuff. Bill Guerin and his $9 million per season jump at me immediatly. Guerin has never scored 50 goals in a season, has only hit the 40 goal mark once and has never put up 70 points in any season, ever. He doesn't have a defensive game to add into the equation either. Then there was the $4.5 million per year they paid for Scott Young. The $2.1 million per year for Phillipe Boucher (I know it sounds low, but trust me, the Stars aren't getting near enough of a return on that investment). Doesn't sound like a whole lot collectively, but then consider that all 3 of these players were signed in the same offseason.

And I can't, in good conscience, talk about overpaying for a UFA without mentioning the Boston Bruins giving $5.5 million per season to Martin Lapointe. I'll be scratching my head about that one until the day I die.

Anyway. Up, up, up go the prices on everyone. The agents leverage for it and the owners open the checkbooks. Both are to blame. Now we're paying the price with no hockey to watch and no relief in sight.

Dammit.

[Clockwork Orange]

Interesting. Forbes magazine is claiming that the NHL has exaggerated their reported losses by quite a large margin.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=1921749

In an article in its Nov. 29 edition, the business magazine -- which did not have access to all of the 30 teams' financial records -- estimates the NHL lost a combined $96 million last season, not $224 million as reported by the league.

For the 2002-03 season, in which the NHL stated losses of $273 million, Forbes estimates they were actually about $123 million.

The discrepancy occurred because several NHL teams aren't accounting for all their revenue, Forbes reported. The magazine said the NHL included only half of the $17 million the New York Islanders got last year for cable broadcasts, for example.

William Wirtz, who owns the Chicago Blackhawks, also owns half of the United Center, where the team plays. Forbes said that the arena's 212 suites pulled in $15 million last season, money that wasn't included in the league's numbers. The United Center is a separate corporate entity from the Blackhawks, the magazine reported.

Naturally the NHL calls bull**** on this article and the players association will point to it as if it's the gospel. Further proof of how far apart they are.

But it wouldn't shock me at all if this was true. Guys like Jeremy Jacobs and "Dollar" Bill Wirtz are unquestionably sleazy enough to cry poor while hiding revenue from auditors (that is if they had to hide it at all) .

But that's what this is all about, the owners turning a profit. Don't let them kid you with their whining and preaching about competitive balance, none of them gives a pigs tit about competitive balance. This salary cap that the owners are willing to lose an entire season over is about one thing and one thing only, guaranteeing them a profit. I agree that they have a right to make money in this business venture, but spare me the schtick about how you care so much about competitive balance and the state of the game. You're interested in your bottom line, period.

The nuclear winter of the NHL continues with no end in sight.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

HF's Prospects #'s 26-50

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/article.php?sid=7354&mode=threaded&order=0

#'s 11-25

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/article.php?sid=7370

[Hercules Rockefeller]

and there's a rumor going around that Don Fehr (MLB Union Head) is telling Goodenow to never accept a cap. If the NHL does, MLB will be the only league without one and there will be pressure for them to accept one too.

[Boogerboots]

Here's another volley against the NHLPA. Supposedly this info was leaked by a player agent who has since been "decertified" by the union.

TSN Story (http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?id=104038)

To summarize, there appears to be a secret website called NHLPA SCORE....

The Minnesota Star-Tribune has uncovered a computer system called NHLPA SCORE, a program designed for player agents to streamline data, exploit its legal rights and outduel the league and its team in salary negotiations.

The Tribune, with help from an anonymous player agent, was given a detailed tour of the program.

The main feature of the SCORE system is an E-File. According to the Star-Tribune, any agent can click on the E-File go to a home page for each of the players he represents.

This elaborate setup enables player agents to access league wide data to get the highest possible contract for their clients by using comparable data that relates to their player(s). An agent got fired over this revelation so obviously the union didn't want anybody to know about it. Seems like the players union just got dinged again in the popular support category. All they care about is making more money $$$ :cuss:

[Boogerboots]

Heres the story about the agent losing his certification... LINK (http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?id=105139)

[SoCalBronco]

Go Pens!

[Mtbrncofn]

Hey SoCal....just a thought here, buddy. But we actually need hockey going on for you to root for your Pens. Ha!

[Boogerboots]

Go Pens!

Looks more like the Pens will be gone for good in a few years. I heard on the radio this morning that if Mario Lemieux doesn't get a new rink within the next two years, he will leave the franchise and will either try to sell or fold it.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?ID=105982

With the baseball Pirates and football Steelers both getting new stadia with govt. $$$ , the likelihood of the city or state putting up cash for a new rink is slim at best. This could mean the total extinction of the noble penguin. :(

[Tredici]

~~The Penguins current lease at Mellon Arena runs through 2006-07. The team is one of several groups bidding for a license to operate a stand alone slots casino, scheduled to be built in Pittsburgh. Part of the revenue from that operation would go into the construction of a new hockey arena. ~~

Man... to me this is part of the problem with hockey. If you need slots to provide revenue then maybe there shouldn't be a franchise in Pittsburgh.

So Clockwork - rumor has it the players are close to offering a new proposal based on a luxury tax scenario. -- Hey, it's good enough for Steinbrenner, right? What you heard lately?

[Mtbrncofn]

Anything resembling a shot at a resolution would be too much to hope for.

[Boogerboots]

If there's no progress with any form of new CBA talks within the next two weeks, you can pretty much mail it in that the season is done.

Bettman was in Edmonton today stating that the two franchises in Alberta would be gone within the next few years unless drastic changes are made to the CBA. What I found interesting was that he also said that there was no set "drop dead" date set by the league for a deal to be worked out.

Most NHL pundits figure that if a deal is not stuck by the end of the December, then the season is lost. But Bettman's comments today makes one wonder if this is true. I'm guessing that in an extreme case senario , if both sides were making progress, the negotiations could carry into early January which could result with the season starting later that month and carrying on into late June / early July.

The chances are slim, but it could happen.
Hmmm ... Hockey in July 8')

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Damn it, I want a season because I want Crosby. Pittsburgh will not be the worst team in the league and no season means last year's records will be used for the lottery if the season is lost, though there won't be a draft until a new CBA is in place. The Caps on the other hand will be the worst team by a good margin and be odds on favorites for the worst record.

[Clockwork Orange]

Bettman was in Edmonton today stating that the two franchises in Alberta would be gone within the next few years unless drastic changes are made to the CBA. What I found interesting was that he also said that there was no set "drop dead" date set by the league for a deal to be worked out.

Just more posturing. Bettman is trying to gain support for the owners by playing the "If the players have their way you won't have a team anymore" angle.

Bettman needs to pull his head out of the owners collective bungholes and realize that the majority of fans aren't taking anyone's side. They're pissed at both groups and just want a deal to get done. But instead of sitting down and negotiating, they're playing politics and trying to gain public support.

Dig this Gary, if you lose an entire season to this godforsaken lockout, you won't have to worry about getting support for the owners.....you're going to have to worry about getting anyone south of the Canadian border to watch the NHL.

Remember Gary, apathy is worse than hatred. Even if people are angry with you all, odds are they'll come back eventually. If they become completely detatched, you can kiss them goodbye. It still doesn't seem to me like baseball is all the way back after the loss of the World Series in 1994 (though they have been improving steadily and this years teriffic postseason will certainly help matters) and baseball is way, way ahead of hockey in American fan support.

Go ahead and cancel the season Gary, when you come back the NHL will be getting beat in the ratings by infomercials.

[Mtbrncofn]

Great post, CO. Couldn't agree with you more. Just get the damn deal DONE!

[SoCalBronco]

ive heard of that crosby kid. how could pittsburgh get the first pick, wouldnt it be washington? I really want the Penguins to get him.

[Mtbrncofn]

Yeah, Crosby is supposed to be the next Gretzky.

Well that seems like that is unfair to the rest of the league concerning the number one pick in the draft. The Caps got it last year and took Ovechkin. They would get it another year in a row and be able to pick up the two best prospects since the Stone Age?

I thought there would be no draft period.

CO, help us out here.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

No draft until a CBA is in place. Which means if they lose the season there will be 2 drafts in '06, one consisting of the '05 prospects and then the normal '06 draft. If that happens, supposedly the '05 order would be determined by simply having another lottery based off of the '04 records, giving the Pens the best shot at landing Crosby.

[Clockwork Orange]

I've read that there would likely be a lottery to determine the draft order if the season were cancelled, but I haven't seen anything about how the lottery would be weighted.

Though I think there's way too much chance for some shady things happening if every team is given "an equal chance" to land the top pick. I can hear it now......

"With the first pick, the New York Rangers are proud to select, Sidney Crosby."

Don't put it past Bettman, he did used to work for David Stern.

[Boogerboots]

It still doesn't seem to me like baseball is all the way back after the loss of the World Series in 1994 (though they have been improving steadily and this years teriffic postseason will certainly help matters) and baseball is way, way ahead of hockey in American fan support.

Go ahead and cancel the season Gary, when you come back the NHL will be getting beat in the ratings by infomercials.

When you use the Baseball analogy, well that's the very reason why I would agree with shutting the season down to save the league. MLB caved into the players demands and despite the great playoffs this past year, all 4 teams broke the bank to get deep into the playoffs. That means that teams like Milwaukee, Pittsburgh and Montreal had a snowball's chance in hell of making the post season. All three of these teams total salaries only amount to just over half the payroll for the Bankee$!

Over the past decade or so, Hockey started to look much like what baseball is like now. A two tiered league with a fraction of it's teams having a realistic shot at winning the cup. Some say that parity might be boring and leaves no chance for dynasties to form, but it allows the league to grow and fan interest to generate. Because it gives all teams a chance.

As much as I do not trust Bettman, he is the lesser of two evils here. The players are running the league and it has to stop NOW. If it means that this year is lost and maybe part of next year, well that sucks. But if going through this short term pain can prevent teams like the Rangers, Flyers or Maple Leafs from continously buying the top young talent that Edmonton, Ottawa or Minnesota can't afford... then I'm drinking the kool-aid. The league needs an overhaul to allow a level playing field for all teams .

It seems that the NHLPA is not willing to commit to any serious concessions that will help settle this matter. So much like the NFL broke the union back in the early 80's, the NHL has to follow suit now to set things right. And if the NHL can go through with this, they may be able to follow the NFL plan to get more fans interested in the game.

[Clockwork Orange]

It seems that the NHLPA is not willing to commit to any serious concessions that will help settle this matter.

Not true at all. The NHLPA made a proposal two months ago for a system that would include a luxury tax and a 5% rollback of player salaries across the board. The owners slid it back across the table and told them that they're not interested in any proposal that doesn't begin with a hard salary cap.

[Mtbrncofn]

Ottawa can't afford big money players? That doesn't sound right. Look at some of the big guns they have up there, plus they signed Asslick. I guess I don't know their numbers, but it seems they should be one of the teams with a hefty payroll.

[Clockwork Orange]

The Ottawa Senators were purchased by billionaire Eugene Melnyk, so their financial woes are a thing of the past.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Not true at all. The NHLPA made a proposal two months ago for a system that would include a luxury tax and a 5% rollback of player salaries across the board. The owners slid it back across the table and told them that they're not interested in any proposal that doesn't begin with a hard salary cap.

That 5% rollback was a joke. All the arbitration-eligible players would be back to where they were within a year or two. It sounds nice, but it's not really a concession really just a temporary paycut.

[Boogerboots]

http://images.google.ca/images?q=tbn:ch40XefF_ZkJ:home.iprimus.com.au/panopticon1/deadzone/p44a.jpg The Ice... is about ... TO BREAK!!!

Great news!! just heard that NHLPA exec Bob Goodenow has requested a meeting with the NHL brass next week to try and find a resolution to the lockout. It may be just a pub stunt but's it's a start! :)

[Mtbrncofn]

I saw it too on ESPN today. Here's to hopin!!

[Hercules Rockefeller]

The Ottawa Senators were purchased by billionaire Eugene Melnyk, so their financial woes are a thing of the past.

Melnyk assumed the team's debt when he bought it, so I think they still lost money last year b/c of that.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

What are the odds anything positive happens at the meeting this week, ie something like Bettman tells owners to cancel the 45 day rule?

I'm tired of having to watch b-ball inbetween Sundays. Hockey needs to come back.

[Clockwork Orange]

Melnyk assumed the team's debt when he bought it, so I think they still lost money last year b/c of that.

True, but they were able to re-sign Daniel Alfredsson (which was a big question mark going into last season) because of Melnyk and will be able to keep their core together (Hossa, Havlat, Chara, Spezza) when contract time rolls around again.

They should be making some money though, lord knows enough Toronto fans buy tickets to fill the Corel Center. That has to be embarassing for Sens fans. They get outnumbered in their own building by fans of their most hated rival.

[Clockwork Orange]

Some Avs news, kind of.

http://www.ontariohockeyleague.com/news/?id=1108

Avs prospect Wojtek Wolski was named OHL player of the week. The 6'3, 201 pound, 18 year old left winger was selected 21st overall in this years draft by the Avalanche.

http://www.battalionhockey.com/hm/imageDisplay.php?id=452&client_id=1&type=or

:thumbsup:

[Mtbrncofn]

Good gawd what a hideous sweater!

I'm excited to see this guy play. It would be nice if hockey came back sometime so I could get that oppurtunity. After reading about him during and after the draft, he sounded like a mean mofo and an exciting player to watch.

[Tredici]

Hey Mo - I'd rather get to see these pictures:

http://www.mytelus.com/sports/article.do?pageID=nhl/home&articleID=1782635&

--What I really want is the American marketing rights to those pictures...

[Mtbrncofn]

Holy crap! They didn't even include a photo in the damn article? Those bastards!

[Mtbrncofn]

Also screw the Christmas dream for the Swedish women! What about us American women? They get to see him play for God's sake, while we get sh*t.

Show us the damn pictures!!

[Clockwork Orange]

I saw a couple of those Forsberg photos on the news, he had some blonde hottie on his arm in both of them.

If there's one thing I know it's this, it does not suck to be Peter Forsberg.

[Tredici]

Yeah, Clockwork, they cluttered up the view by sticking some Swedish female model in there, too.

Chumps...

[Mtbrncofn]

So, CO....with your most feminine side upfront....did he look hot? Ha!

[Clockwork Orange]

So, CO....with your most feminine side upfront....did he look hot? Ha!

Being married and completely secure in my sexuality, I'll say that he looked the part of a model.;)

[Mtbrncofn]

But an exceptionally hot one right? :)

[bronco militia]

lmao!! what an asshole!







Sunday, January 2, 2005

NHL: Notebook

Goodenow takes a shot from Clarke

Leader of NHLPA hurts negotiations in lockout, says Flyers general manager.

By Ted Kulfan / The Detroit News

Comment on this story Send this story to a friend Get Home Delivery



For the most part, Philadelphia Flyers General Manager Bob Clarke has been calm during the lockout.

By now, at this point, one would have thought a normally bombastic Clarke would have thrown several juicy quotes toward the NHL Players Association and NHLPA Executive Director Bob Goodenow.

Obviously getting frustrated with the situation, Clarke threw a jab at Goodenow last week.

Clarke figures it's Goodenow who is hurting the negotiations and hurting the game.

"It's beyond my imagination how Goodenow could do this to the game," Clarke said. "Every generation of players has made sacrifices for the good of the game and this generation has benefited the most. Nobody resents it, but man oh man, don't hurt the game now." ......... http://www.detnews.com/2005/wings/0501/03/c04-47492.htm

[alkemical]

you guys watch any of the juniors?

[Clockwork Orange]

You mean the WJC? I've watched it whenever it's been on.

Unfortunately they won't be televising the gold medal game between Canada & Russia because Team USA isn't involved. Thanks a pantload ESPN.

[alkemical]

Yep...

i know it sucks, the mouse and their damn poker reality shows

[Breck Bronc]

I can't believe ESPN2 won't be showing the Canada/Russia game. They're showing classic boxing instead.

If ESPN had any interest at all in making one of the sports they televise (NHL hockey) just a little more popular they would hype the Crosby vs. Ovechkin matchup and broadcast the damn game. These two guys are the future of NHL hockey and ESPN would be smart to at least try and give the sport some publicity. But no, they think Americans only want to see Team USA or nothing at all. What a joke.

Maybe ESPN will give Phil Kessel half the treatment they gave LeBron James when he was in high school. Yeah, right. ~Popps~

[alkemical]

Don't forget malkin! :)

lol

No i agree. They missed hyping up vinny & iginla too in the last cup finals. it was one of the better cup finals i've seen in a while as well.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

http://hockeyrumors.blogspot.com/

Wednesday, January 05, 2005
From Rob Simpson
This info came from Rob Simpson of Maple Leaf America...he was on a Talk Show in Philly last night. This goes along with alot of what I've been hearing.


- He has three unnamed sources: a "high up" Leafs exec, a player rep, and a current player, who is a Hall of Fame lock, who wouldn't play again if the season was cancelled;

- The NHLPA reps are meeting via conference call by the end of the week;

- The players will offer that player salaries take up 56% of league revenues and will not call this a cap. They'll find a way to spin it so as not to lose face. The league would be expected to try to argue it down to 54%. (Note from me: Quickie math based on the numbers from the NHL has player salaries that take up 56% of revenues equaling about a $37 mil cap).

- They would need to agree on one party to conduct end of the year audits and Simpson brought up Bill Wirtz's shuffling of numbers and concealing revenues by putting certain parts (ie, concessions) under the name of a different company and not the Hawks;

- He says the season will start January 24th and that some teams already have plans for a seven-day minicamp in the works. The season would be 48 games (provided the league could start up by the 24th), with intraconference only play, with the Cup Final wrapping up by the third week of June;

- The players are apparently buckling because they've lost $800 million this season already (Note from me: This number seemed awfully high to me, but again, number crunching using the basic numbers given by the NHL actually prove the $800 mil in lost salary to be correct);

- He pointed out that if this drags into the summer and then "next season," the NHLPA would likely be dissolved, and keeping the union together is a motivating factor for players;

- Again, he says that this will NOT be called a cap. It will be considered a form of cost-certainty. But it'll pretty much be a cap; and

- He "quoted" the unnamed Leafs exec, who has supposedly said, "It will get done."

[alkemical]

Is it too little too late?

I'm going to go see the bears again on the 15th, they are pretty hot right now.

I'm going to also see them later on playing the baby pens.

Good news though herc

[alkemical]

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05004/436827.stm

Gretzky says lockout could last two years if no deal soon
Tuesday, January 04, 2005

By The Associated Press

GRAND FORKS, N.D. -- Wayne Gretzky fears the NHL could be shut down for as long as two years if a labor deal is not reached soon.


Gretzky, the NHL's all-time leading scorer and part owner of the Phoenix Coyotes, said an "even more alarming" scenario could await the league if the lockout is not settled in the next few days.

[alkemical]

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05004/436819.stm

Penguins in Exile: Malkin sparkling at World Juniors

[Mtbrncofn]

Wow, Herc. I'd call that good news just because it gives me a little something to hope for. Here's to hoping.

[alkemical]

yeah but gretz thinks it's 2yrs

[Clockwork Orange]

......and a current player, who is a Hall of Fame lock, who wouldn't play again if the season was cancelled

Must be Belfour.

[alkemical]

Stevie Y?

[alkemical]

I know it's not mario, he's already in

[alkemical]

uhm... i forget his name, the guy for the lightning.....

[Clockwork Orange]

Ahh, I thought they were saying that it was a Leafs player who wouldn't play again. My fault.

I'd bet on either Yzerman or Messier then.

And the guy who you're thinking of is Dave Andreychuk amesj.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

My guess is Stevie Y

[Hercules Rockefeller]

yeah but gretz thinks it's 2yrs

Grezt thinks it'll be 2 years if they can't save this season.

[alkemical]

thanks clockwork -

I had steve konowalckycksdyc on the brain and i was lazy -

Stevie Y would be my guess too -

I wish jarmior would stay in europe.

[Clockwork Orange]

I read somewhere that Jagr is tearing it up in whichever league he's playing in overseas.

It's amazing what that guy's capable of when he feels like playing hard.

[alkemical]

He's a dick. Plain and simple.

Trust me, i had no problem with him whining at first. I was like "yeah but he scores 100+pts a year" - then when mario came back, he started whining, they he pulled that **** in the playoffs faking injury to come back and 'save' the pens.

Then mario traded him.

He's the tin man.

I do miss kovie though. He played will in pitt, just not as well as his talent is everywhere else.

[alkemical]

Speaking of tearing it up...

RICO FATA is blowing **** up in the italian league... lol :)

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Anyone read French?

http://rds.ca/hockey/chroniques/170420.html

Supposedly it says the players took a secret vote Wednesday and the majority said they wanted to return even if meant agreeing to a cap.

[alkemical]

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05013/441540.stm

Penguins' consultant to push for new arena

[alkemical]

Anyone read French?

http://rds.ca/hockey/chroniques/170420.html

Supposedly it says the players took a secret vote Wednesday and the majority said they wanted to return even if meant agreeing to a cap.

But there is difficulty in this proposal.
How to make swallow with 14 owners whom their formations would play a maximum of five matches, and bye bye, it is finished. Without forgetting that the majority of the teams of the league would not currently have the necessary maximum of 23 players in possession of a contract.

Would one make sign agreements for five matches?
Oh, among the 14 landlords eliminated in first round, there would be of them one which at least would gain the lottery Sydney Crosby.

A secret vote

According to Stan Fischler, columnist with MSG Network, the player of a team of the national League - insistent to keep anonymity - would have mentioned to him that at the time of a secret vote, carried out Wednesday, its fellow-members had voted in majority for a return to work in spite of a wage ceiling.

The known as player would have communicated the result of the vote to the representatives of the Association of the players and whom it would nicely have been made give to his place.
The initiative taken by the known as player should not it be imitated by Bob Goodenow.

Would it have courage to ask the members to take a secret vote in order to better know their state of heart?
The problem in this history, it is that the player who took the initiative of the secret vote does not want that its name is mentioned. It does not want to work out more on all the step which it carried out to arrive from there at such a result.

Why? Because he does not want to be the first to pose such a gesture, it says.
Ca gives you a small idea of the influence which Bob Goodenow has on the members of Association.

The Burke solution

The general ex-director of Canucks of Vancouver, Brian Burke, proposes a solution to solve the problem between the players and the owners. He suggests a 10 years agreement but two shutters. If the players if are convinced that the reduction of 24% of all the wages of the players is the single solution, whereas the owners decide to take a risk... over two years. That one uses the system during two next seasons but if that does not function, the players will have automatically to accept a wage ceiling for the eight following seasons.
Interesting, isn't this?

I imagine however that certain owners would be tempted to make jump the pot, strictly to arrive from there at the imposition of a wage ceiling for the season 2007-08.

An interesting point. Burke recommends the immediate creation of a committee to provide the foundations on the way in which one will proceed to determine the sources of income of each team and especially on the checking of the financial statements. It is the single way of creating a solid partnership.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Thank you

[alkemical]

Thank you
http://babelfish.altavista.com/

[SoCalBronco]

thanks for the news on Malkin Josh. I like the Penguins young talent, esp. Fleury at goalie. Just get us a stadium and we are back. There was a guy who was a Pittsburgh native i think, he was in the draft a few years ago, who was a big penguin fan and i watched him one time he was real impressive, but some other team drafted him. I am trying to remember his name, its J.P. something. Damn. I hope we can get that Crosby kid too.

[alkemical]

thanks for the news on Malkin Josh. I like the Penguins young talent, esp. Fleury at goalie. Just get us a stadium and we are back. There was a guy who was a Pittsburgh native i think, he was in the draft a few years ago, who was a big penguin fan and i watched him one time he was real impressive, but some other team drafted him. I am trying to remember his name, its J.P. something. Damn. I hope we can get that Crosby kid too.


i know ryan malone is a native pitt who was drafted by the pens....

[alkemical]

thanks for the news on Malkin Josh. I like the Penguins young talent, esp. Fleury at goalie. Just get us a stadium and we are back. There was a guy who was a Pittsburgh native i think, he was in the draft a few years ago, who was a big penguin fan and i watched him one time he was real impressive, but some other team drafted him. I am trying to remember his name, its J.P. something. Damn. I hope we can get that Crosby kid too.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05014/442134.stm

Fleury making the most of his time in Wilkes-Barre

[Boogerboots]

Could this be a last ditch attempt to end the lockout???
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?id=111647

Supposedly the #2 reps from both the NHL and the PA are slated to meet in Toronto this Wednesday. With the NFL playoffs wrapping up , I hope they can figure something out soon. I'd rather shovel through 10 foot snowdrifts than be forced to watch Allen Iverson for my sports fix. :(

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Past the middle of January, and no announced drop-dead date yet. Hopefully that means something.

[Mtbrncofn]

Yeah I was wondering about that too, Herc. Since the 14th ( the rumored drop dead date that I had been reading ) had passed and no announcement of the season being cancelled, I am still clinging to my tiniest sliver of hope.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Sportsnet.ca had a story up earlier that said an 8-year deal was signed between the League and the NHLPA but quickly pulled it down.

[alkemical]

****ers

[Mtbrncofn]

Sportsnet.ca had a story up earlier that said an 8-year deal was signed between the League and the NHLPA but quickly pulled it down.

That was f*ckin cruel.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

****ers

I know. Weird that they would have something that detailed up, an 8 Year deal that was 4 years of salary rollbacks and 4 years of a soft cap with a luxury tax, and then pull it.

[Breck Bronc]

Hopefully there's something to this. An agreement would make my day, week, month, winter and spring. Especially with football almost over. :pray:

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Hopefully there's something to this. An agreement would make my day, week, month, winter and spring. Especially with football almost over. :pray:

Yeah. I'm looking forward to Opening Day right now because there's no hockey, and I don't even like baseball.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Going to meet tomorrow now too

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?id=111787

NHL talks lasted nearly five hours at Chicago's O'Hare Airport on Wednesday, with the promise to meet again on Thursday in Toronto.

Neither side commented much on how the session went - or had much to say on anything else for that matter. But the fact there will be another meeting is a glimmer of hope.

"There was dialogue and communication, and that's what I set out to accomplish," NHL Players' Association president Trevor Linden after the meeting before leaving.

Wednesday's session started at 11:15 a.m. EST and ended at 4:10 p.m.

Linden, NHLPA senior director Ted Saskin and outside counsel John McCambridge met in an airport lounge with NHL board of governors chairman Harley Hotchkiss, NHL executive vice-president Bill Daly and league outside counsel Bob Batterman.

The group, which came together at Linden's request, is trying kick-start 11th-hour labour talks. It was only the third meeting between the two sides since Sept. 9.

"We credit Trevor Linden's initiative in requesting this session, which was informal, open and professional and which resulted in a constructive exchange of viewpoints," Hotchkiss said in a statement, his only remarks for the day.

Daly and Saskin said very little in a brief media scrum afterwards.

"I thought the atmosphere was good," Daly told reporters. "But I don't want to add any other than that. We want to continue the process."

Daly later added in a statement that the "parties had a good, candid dialogue, and we intend to talk again. Out of respect for the process, we have no further comment at this time."

Either way, the fact there is another meeting can't be bad news.

"That certainly is a positive thing," Devils CEO and GM Lou Lamoriello said from New Jersey.

Lamoriello, a member of the owners' negotiating committee, reiterated the critical time element as the season slips away.

"It doesn't take anybody who's around the game to know the number of games that need to be played, of what the urgency is right now if there's anything to come about from this," Lamoriello said.

NHL commissioner Gary Bettman, NHLPA executive director Bob Goodenow and the rest of the negotiating teams were not present for Wednesday's talks.

It's the first meeting between the two sides since Dec. 14 in Toronto, when the NHL rejected the union's Dec. 9 proposal and the NHLPA responded by rejecting the league's counter-offer.

More than half of the NHL season has already been scrapped by the lockout, which was announced Sept. 15 by Bettman. Through Wednesday, 662 of the season's 1,230 regular-season games had gone by the wayside.

The league has never announced a drop-dead date to save the season, but few believe there can be hockey this season if there's no agreement before the end of the month.

None of the four major professional sports in North America has ever gone beginning to end without a single game played. The Stanley Cup is in danger of not being awarded for the first time since the Spanish flu wiped out the 1919 final. Even the Second World War couldn't stop the Stanley Cup playoffs.

[Mtbrncofn]

Please God....I just can't bear the thought of no sports that I actively watch.

[Boogerboots]

Hope I'm not jumping the gun here, but this could be the real deal to save hockey. this link will likely last for just today but here's the meat and potatoes....

http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/OttawaSun/Sports/2005/01/20/904211-sun.html

Under the deal being discussed by the two sides, the NHLPA has asked the league to accept an agreement without a salary cap for the first three seasons. If it doesn't work, the source said, the league would be allowed to implement a cap in the final three years.

But if the NHLPA's proposal allows each team to have cost certainty and make money, the source said there would be no cap. The source added that the league was willing to discuss the idea, but wasn't sure if it was going to be enough to allow NHL hockey to be played this season.
Today's session will likely include NHL VP Bill Daly and lawyer Bob Batterman, along with Linden, senior director Ted Saskin and lawyer John McCambridge.

The group will be without Hotchkiss today. He is expected to attend the Calgary funeral of J.R. "Bud" McCaig, the part-owner of the Flames who died last Tuesday.

Saskin also had much more on his mind than the lockout. His mother died yesterday morning.

That's likely the chief reason for shifting talks to Toronto, where Saskin lives.

Cross your fingers hockey fans!

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Montreal radio says the League is making a new proposal today, and Sportscenter said last night that Anaheim and Phoenix is ordering new training equipment.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

I'm curious how they plan to get cost certainty with no cap unless there's a luxury tax so punitive that it acts like a salary cap.

[Mtbrncofn]

If this is a false alarm to get my hopes up, so help me God......

[Hercules Rockefeller]

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/article.jsp;jsessionid=BHBHBBPLDOOI?content=200501 20_130833_3916

Coyotes players told to be ready to practice within a week, and all of the Players Executive Board except for Alfredsson and Irbe are in Toronto.

[alkemical]

you know what, i think the NHL should change the camera angle on TV to what it is on a video game, above and behind sort of view, that damn diagonal view makes it hard for avg people to watch.

[Pendejo]

you know what, i think the NHL should change the camera angle on TV to what it is on a video game, above and behind sort of view, that damn diagonal view makes it hard for avg people to watch.

Right. That is definitely one of the first things they need to improve. The casual but interested fan should be able to tune in and be able to find the puck. That all takes a back seat to getting rid of all of the obstruction, and opening up the ice for the talented players to showcase their skills.

[alkemical]

I also agree that clutching and grabbing needs to go. But it's a package. I've seen several hershey bears games and i've seen the fast faceoff, the auto icing, and it is way better.

[Hogan11]

The casual but interested fan should be able to tune in and be able to find the puck.

Remember Fox with the glow puck? There was a reason why they got rid of it..... ugh!~

[alkemical]

yeah but the camera angle as it is, makes it hard to follow the play

[Mtbrncofn]

I will watch hockey in a truck, with a glowing puck, while wading through muck.....oh you get the point. :D

I am way less worried about new rules than there actually being hockey for the new rules to be played with. I just want hockey, damnit!

If this thing happens, Trevor Linden will become one of my heroes. He iniated this meeting as a last ditch effort and he should be applauded for it.

[Mtbrncofn]

Well darnit, I was of course, hoping to hear that we'd know either way tonight or tomorrow, but its not to be. Things still sound like they are going better than expected, but Saskin's mom passed away so they won't be meeting tomorrw to continue talks.
________________________
The two day-session, initiated by NHLPA president Trevor Linden, was described by Daly as ''the best dynamic to date in this process.''

..............

But the presence of the executive committee members, coupled with reports that some teams had told their players to be on standby, offered some optimism.



That was until the Anaheim Mighty Ducks and Phoenix Coyotes, two of the teams reportedly telling their players to be prepared, shot down the reports.



''There's no substance to that whatsoever,'' said Ducks head coach Mike Babcock. ''That's not true at all.''



Phoenix GM Mike Barnett also denied his players were told to be on alert.



''That's completely erroneous,'' he said. ''I have not spoken to any members of our roster in two months. I don't even know where one-third of our roster is. Some of them are spread all over the globe. No one in our management group has contacted our players since November.''

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?ID=111977&hubName=nhl

[Pendejo]

I also agree that clutching and grabbing needs to go. But it's a package. I've seen several hershey bears games and i've seen the fast faceoff, the auto icing, and it is way better.

I'm not a huge fan of the automatic icing...they use it in the ECHL...I certainly understand the thinking behind it...it's ok, and it really doesn't slow the game down very much at all...because let's face it...how many times does the offensive player win the race to the puck negating the icing...it does prevent injuries...the fast faceoff sounds great...if that's all it takes to clear the ice I'm all for it. That and after overtime go to the shootout. EVERY game should be worth two points. The fans will eat it up. It's exciting, and fun. It's no different than losing an overtime game...the points are the same.

[Pendejo]

Remember Fox with the glow puck? There was a reason why they got rid of it..... ugh!~

The glowing puck was a failure, but it was an innovation intended to make it easier for the casual fan to watch a hockey game. The idea behind the concept was right on the money...

That innovation as colossal a failure as it was...dwarfs any ideas the NHL office itself has come up with under Bettman...to increase the popularity of the game. Unless of course you consider increasing the width of the blue line. That will make a lot more people watch on T.V.

Brendan Shanahan held some sort of conference relatively recently to discuss the game. Rule changes et al...The article might still be up at espn...it was a good read, and proposed somethings the league should actually adopt.

Anyone know what's going on with the offsides tag up rule. If any rule change makes any sense it's that one. I think they were testing it out in the AHL along with the no touch icing, and the increased blueline width.

[alkemical]

I'm not a huge fan of the automatic icing...they use it in the ECHL...I certainly understand the thinking behind it...it's ok, and it really doesn't slow the game down very much at all...because let's face it...how many times does the offensive player win the race to the puck negating the icing...it does prevent injuries...the fast faceoff sounds great...if that's all it takes to clear the ice I'm all for it. That and after overtime go to the shootout. EVERY game should be worth two points. The fans will eat it up. It's exciting, and fun. It's no different than losing an overtime game...the points are the same.


I think players fight for it more for an auto icing IMO.

[Pendejo]

I think players fight for it more for an auto icing IMO.
You may be right. What I'm getting at is that particular rule is not going to have significant impact on the way the game is played, and if that rule is part of the package needed to open up the ice...I'm on board. It will reduce the amount of injuries a bit too. The thing with people getting hurt when fighting for an iced puck is...the injury is usually serious.

It's time for the NHL to be progressive. Now moreso than ever. The changes they need to make are generally subtle, but they need to follow through with them.

[Boogerboots]

As far as rule changes go, well judging from the World Juniors that was held during the Christmas Holidays, I think that the two line offside rule should be chucked. They used the two line pass and it really helped break up trapping teams defenses.

Most Hockey pundits agree that this could help open up the game as an offensive team could then make a pass from their own zone right up to the opposing blue line, instead of the red centre line. The centre line would still be used for icing infractions if the cherry picker misses the long pass and it goes the length of the ice.

Tag up offside was another rule that could help. If a player goes in offside, only he has to go back out. Other players that were'nt offside, can still go in and attack. Right now if offsides is in effect, all players are not allowed go into the opposition's zone until the offsides is lifted by either a whistle or by the defending team playing the puck out of their zone.

Last likely rule change is the no touch icing. This is more for safety reasons, but there is still those out there that believe that it should be left in. Touch icing favors teams that forecheck with speedy forwards that take advantage of bigger slower defensemen. At times icing is lifted by speedy forechecking but we've all seen how bad the results can be with all the endboard collisions. It may not happen when NHL play resumes but I'm sure it will be instituted within the next 2-3 years.

I like the idea of the overhead camera angle. Perhaps if they could rig it up to the game clock and use it like the pulley camera in football. If it means more interest in the game in new markets and doesn't involve a neon puck with transforming robot scoreboards, then I'm all for it.

Hope the talks continue and they get this thing done.... soon. :pray:

[alkemical]

As far as rule changes go, well judging from the World Juniors that was held during the Christmas Holidays, I think that the two line offside rule should be chucked. They used the two line pass and it really helped break up trapping teams defenses.

Most Hockey pundits agree that this could help open up the game as an offensive team could then make a pass from their own zone right up to the opposing blue line, instead of the red centre line. The centre line would still be used for icing infractions if the cherry picker misses the long pass and it goes the length of the ice.

Tag up offside was another rule that could help. If a player goes in offside, only he has to go back out. Other players that were'nt offside, can still go in and attack. Right now if offsides is in effect, all players are not allowed go into the opposition's zone until the offsides is lifted by either a whistle or by the defending team playing the puck out of their zone.

Last likely rule change is the no touch icing. This is more for safety reasons, but there is still those out there that believe that it should be left in. Touch icing favors teams that forecheck with speedy forwards that take advantage of bigger slower defensemen. At times icing is lifted by speedy forechecking but we've all seen how bad the results can be with all the endboard collisions. It may not happen when NHL play resumes but I'm sure it will be instituted within the next 2-3 years.

I like the idea of the overhead camera angle. Perhaps if they could rig it up to the game clock and use it like the pulley camera in football. If it means more interest in the game in new markets and doesn't involve a neon puck with transforming robot scoreboards, then I'm all for it.

Hope the talks continue and they get this thing done.... soon. :pray:

good post

[alkemical]

You may be right. What I'm getting at is that particular rule is not going to have significant impact on the way the game is played, and if that rule is part of the package needed to open up the ice...I'm on board. It will reduce the amount of injuries a bit too. The thing with people getting hurt when fighting for an iced puck is...the injury is usually serious.

It's time for the NHL to be progressive. Now moreso than ever. The changes they need to make are generally subtle, but they need to follow through with them.


It does open it up at times, other times you see a team desperate for a clear and just swing it.

[Breck Bronc]

The NHL instituted fast faceoffs after the 2002 Olympics and its been a success so far. I think they shortened games by 10-15 minutes just with that rule.

I think there's too much evidence from Europe that making a two-line offside pass legal will actually slow down the game even more. Defenseman in Europe rarely go into the offensive zone in order take away the long breakout passes.

Going back to touch-up offsides, which the NHL stopped allowing in 1997-'98, is a great idea that will keep the flow of the game going and create less stoppages. Watching old tapes of NHL games and the World Juniors makes you realize how much better touch-up offsides is. The reason they went away from it was to make defenseman more skilled by not allowing them the easy dump-in when their teammates were already in the offensive zone.

As far as camera angles, I think ABC used the NFL-style overhead camera with the pulley system during the 2004 NHL All-Star game. It wasn't perfect, since the picture wasn't totally clear, but you could tell that that angle might be the future of hockey telecasts.

During the 2001 Stanley Cup Finals, ABC also ripped off the NFL by using multiple cameras strung together at the top of the building, creating a Matrix-like replay that showed a play develop from multiple angles in real time. It was really cool and I don't know why they haven't tried it since. CBS created the system during the 2001 Super Bowl between Baltimore and New York. They haven't used it since, either.

I just saw on channel 9's sports report that Peter Forsberg broke his wrist in a game in Sweden, so even if he did decide to come back to the NHL this season it wouldn't have mattered anyway (If there is a season). Foppa just has the worst injury luck.

[Mtbrncofn]

Broken wrist? Sheesh, he certainly does have all the luck. The bad kind that is.

[SoCalBronco]

i dunno Breck, i think eliminating the two line pass and stuff would make the game more exciting and open up the middle of the ice. More scoring. I think alot of NHL teams would adopt that Torpedo System that i think Sweden does, it is very explosive and very exciting. Alot of goalscoring. The league is going to have to do something to make up for this strike to get people back, and a more fast paced style would be a good start, although, from a tactic standpoint i do like the Trap. It just is boring thats all.

[Mtbrncofn]

Wow SoCal....I don't think I have ever heard the words, "I like the trap". ;) Boring is an understatement there.

My vote for a change would be the shootout. I would love to see that happen. I think that would get more interest. JMHO though.

[SoCalBronco]

Bad news for Forsberg fans......i hope he heals 100 percent for the sake of all of hockey in general.

ORNSKOLDSVIK, Sweden (AP) -- Peter Forsberg injured his wrist while playing for his hometown team on Thursday and might miss the rest of the Swedish Elite League season, according to a published report.

Forsberg left the game in the third period of Modo's 3-2 overtime loss after colliding with Linkoping player Johan Franzen.




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According to the tabloid Aftonbladet, Forsberg -- the 2003 NHL MVP -- underwent immediate surgery after X-rays revealed a possible broken bone in his wrist.

"In the best-case scenario, he'll be on the injured list for eight weeks," team doctor Kim Thorsen told the paper. "But if it really is a fracture, the whole season is probably lost."

Forsberg's U.S.-based agent, Don Baizley, didn't immediately return a message left after business hours.

Modo is in fifth place in the Elite League, with 14 games left to play in the regular season.

The injury ruined a festive homecoming for Vancouver forward Markus Naslund, who played his first game for Modo since 1993. He became the 14th current or former NHL player on the team, including Canucks teammates Daniel and Henrik Sedin.

They are among the over 300 NHL players who have signed on with European teams during the lockout that threatens to wipe out the entire season.

Forsberg was uncertain to rejoin the Colorado Avalanche anyway this season, opting instead to play for the Modo team coached by his father. His contract with the Colorado Avalanche expired after last season, making him an unrestricted free agent.

Naslund, who scored an NHL-best 164 goals the past four seasons, got a standing ovation from the home crowd but went scoreless in his first game since the World Cup of Hockey last fall.

Forsberg and Naslund grew up together in Ornskoldsvik, a small seaport located halfway between Stockholm and the Arctic Circle. As juniors they formed one of the most dangerous lines in the Swedish Elite League before joining the NHL. They were not on the same line during Thursday's game.

"It was wonderful to be back and play," Naslund said, "but (Forsberg's injury) dampens it a bit."

Copyright 2004 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

[Mtbrncofn]

Take all the time you need to heal, Pete.

He said he wouldn't be back in the NHL this year regardless of the lockout being resolved, if that were to happen. I hope he gets good and healthy for next year because I, for one am very anxious to see him out there in an Avs sweater again.

[Boogerboots]

Now it sounds like the season is finally toast...

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?id=112108

According to a report on The Hockey News' website, NHLPA executive committee president Trevor Linden has told players to prepare for the lockout to extend into next season.

All the rhetoric sounded so positive yesterday but as soon as the meeting ended, Linden turns tail and slags the NHL reps. Linden is the prototypical example of what is wrong with the league. As an underperforming FA he commanded salaries in the range of 3-4 million and consistantly posted crappy numbers.

In the past few trades that involved him, the previous team had to swallow part of his inflated salary in order to get the deal done. No wonder he would be the president of the PA since he is the best example of how a player can take advantage of the system.

Oh well i guess I'll have to settle for X-Box hockey and a couple rounds of shinny up on the lake. Thank you NHL and NHLPA... for nothing!!

[alkemical]

**** The Owners & Nhlpa!

[Clockwork Orange]

None of this comes as any great surprise really. 9 hours of discussions over 2 days and the only thing that they agree on is that the two sides are far apart philosophically.

Translation: This season is over, it's been over, this meeting was more for the sake of public perception than anything else. The only question left now is whether they'll get something done in time to have a 2005-06 season or not. Right now I'm thinking they won't.

Congrats to all parties involved, you're effectively pushing a niche sport (in the U.S. anyway) back into the dark ages. Get ready to see several half empty arenas around the league and television ratings dropping faster than Ashley Simpson's credibility as a musician whenever you guys manage to find a common ground.

I'll be here when they get back, so will the other die hards.....but who else?

As for Forsberg, well, I can't say I'm surprised. He's my favorite hockey player, but the man is just too damn injury prone. A sickeningly talented player whose body just can't take the pounding. It wouldn't shock me if he were to announce his retirement within the next year, but it would certainly sadden me.

I liken Forsberg to Terrell Davis in a lot of ways. Both had amazing careers unfortunately shortened by injury (Forsberg has missed over 2 seasons worth of games in his 9 year career due to injuries varying from bad ankles to a torn shoulder to a splenectomy and will likely be forced into an earlier retirement than he'd like).

Both were catalysts in their teams winning multiple championships. Both were named MVP of their respective leagues. Both have had multiple outstanding statistical seasons. But both also will have the stigma of, "If he only could have stayed healthy he could have been one of the all-time greats" attached to their careers.

[Mtbrncofn]

Now it sounds like the season is finally toast...


Oh well i guess I'll have to settle for X-Box hockey and a couple rounds of shinny up on the lake. Thank you NHL and NHLPA... for nothing!!


Yeah thanks a lot for the that little glimmer of hope you jerkoffs gave us. Should have known it was too good to be true. :moody: Bastards.

[Hogan11]

Well, at least spring training starts in early March....that leaves a little less than a month for the UHL for me, the Jackals have sucked pretty much all season anyways.

[Bronx33]

Well, at least spring training starts in early March....that leaves a little less than a month for the UHL for me, the Jackals have sucked pretty much all season anyways.




GO AVS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[SoCalBronco]

Bad news on the NHL folks, it looks like any hope we had about these new meetings are pretty much gone and it is likely to stretch into next seasons schedule. This is from today, Jan 21, hot off the wires. DAMN ****ING HOCKEY, this is a damn shame.

The Hockey News
NHL Players' Association president Trevor Linden is telling players to be prepared for the lockout to continue deep into next season, The Hockey News has learned.


In an audio message posted on the NHLPA's internal Web site last night, Linden said he sees no basis for further meetings with the league. The league is insisting the only solution to the lockout is with a hard individual team salary cap and is not prepared to compromise in any way, Linden said.



Subscribe at thehockeynews.com

According to multiple sources, Linden told players the NHL refuses to discuss any payroll tax system at any level and is also opposed to real revenue sharing.


"Nothing new, nothing's changed," one player said after hearing Linden's message. "It was just made crystal clear, I guess."


"It's done, it's over is basically what Trevor was saying," said another source.


One consequence of the league's hard-line stance, Linden said, would be that young up-and-coming teams such as Tampa Bay and San Jose wouldn't be able to stay together. He warned the players that any future offer from the league that included a hard cap would be strictly a public relations move and would be rejected by the union executive.


Furthermore, Linden said he was insulted when told during the talks that players would have no more say in how the NHL is run than auto workers have say over how an auto company is run.


Linden, NHLPA senior director Ted Saskin and outside counsel John McCambridge met with NHL chief legal officer Bill Daly and outside counsel Bob Batterman for roughly 9½ hours over two days of meetings that wrapped up late Thursday afternoon. Calgary owner and NHL board of governors chairman Harley Hotchkiss took part in the first day of talks.


According to sources, Linden said the first day of meetings went well, but the second day was a step backward. Batterman is said to have told Linden that the league would use a dispersal system to shift players from high-payroll teams to low-payroll clubs in order to get all teams between the salary floor and ceiling range.


Material from The Hockey News.
To subscribe, visit The Hockey News Web site at: http://www.thehockeynews.com

[alkemical]

go wilkes barre pens!

[Bronx33]

go wilkes barre pens!


Go hershey bears!

[Mtbrncofn]

The Hockey News
NHL Players' Association president Trevor Linden is telling players to be prepared for the lockout to continue deep into next season, The Hockey News has learned.


In an audio message posted on the NHLPA's internal Web site last night, Linden said he sees no basis for further meetings with the league. The league is insisting the only solution to the lockout is with a hard individual team salary cap and is not prepared to compromise in any way, Linden said.



]

F*ckin peachy. Thanks for nothing, Trevor. Should have known better than to expect something out of a Canuck player. Thanks for nothing to the rest of the jackasses too. ( Yes, that is my irritation talking. )

[Mtbrncofn]

Ahaahahaaha.... a bit of morbid humor, I think.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?ID=112100

Fan blasts lockout in Ottawa obituary


TSN.ca Staff/CP



1/21/2005

A hockey fan who died this week in Ottawa has used his obituary to take a shot at the NHL lockout.



The Ottawa Citizen reported today that before he died at the age of 84, Archie Bennitz instructed his son, David, to blast NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman and NHLPA president Bob Goodenow in his death notice.



"He asked that Mr. Bettman and Mr. Goodenow know that they are 'skunks' for denying him the pleasure of watching the NHL on TV this year," the obituary read.



Bennitz also pledged support for Wayne Gretzky to replace Bettman.





David Bennitz told the Citizen that late father loved hockey and didn't watch anything else on television. As the lockout dragged on this winter, the elder Bennitz grew more angry and frustrated.



He spent the last month of his life in the hospital, constantly complaining that there was no hockey to watch on television, according to the Citizen's story.



Bennitz grew up in Newmarket, Ontario, just north of Toronto and was a dedicated Maple Leafs fan. He developed a soft spot for the Senators after he moved to Ottawa about three years ago to be closer to his family.

[Tredici]

Ah screw it. I just got home from a Colorado Eagles game. It was absolute fun. They are currently in first place and skated against second place Wichita Thunder.

Thunder went up 2-0 in the first thanks to some power play scoring. The Eagles looked out of sync - the pass always a hair off the mark.

Eagles get a PPG in the second and then tie it up before the period is over.

Go up 3-2 in the 3rd and then the penalty fest started. The Thunder got a PP with 4 minutes left and failed to score so another ticky tack is called with 1:47 left. At a minute they pull the goalie (who had a terrific goalie name of Flick) and it's six on four. There is a manic flurry in front of Tyler Weiman's net (drafted by the Avs) clock goes to 0 and the puck is in the net. After much deliberation they call it no goal. The Thunder Captain goes nuts and earns a game misconduct.

All in all a fun night. I'd say the action is about 3/4's speed of the big boys but there are a few good skaters to watch. The Eagles have some size and teams have a hard time coming through the neutral zone on them.

For those who live close enough, give it a try. Nice venue.

[Boogerboots]

Yeah thanks a lot for the that little glimmer of hope you jerkoffs gave us. Should have known it was too good to be true. :moody: Bastards. :kiddingme

WTF?! Hey if you want to get bent over this sh#t then fine. Don't blame me! Don't blame Canada neither. If we want our game back we'll get it one way or another. If we can get a league where teams can survive in Winnipeg or Quebec City then so be it.

It's the cities like New York, Detroit, and Dallas that created this mess in the first place. So go blame the "jerkoffs" south of the border before you try and slam somebody posting something noteworthy on the hockey front.

[Clockwork Orange]

Ah screw it. I just got home from a Colorado Eagles game. It was absolute fun. They are currently in first place and skated against second place Wichita Thunder.

Thunder went up 2-0 in the first thanks to some power play scoring. The Eagles looked out of sync - the pass always a hair off the mark.

Eagles get a PPG in the second and then tie it up before the period is over.

Go up 3-2 in the 3rd and then the penalty fest started. The Thunder got a PP with 4 minutes left and failed to score so another ticky tack is called with 1:47 left. At a minute they pull the goalie (who had a terrific goalie name of Flick) and it's six on four. There is a manic flurry in front of Tyler Weiman's net (drafted by the Avs) clock goes to 0 and the puck is in the net. After much deliberation they call it no goal. The Thunder Captain goes nuts and earns a game misconduct.

All in all a fun night. I'd say the action is about 3/4's speed of the big boys but there are a few good skaters to watch. The Eagles have some size and teams have a hard time coming through the neutral zone on them.

For those who live close enough, give it a try. Nice venue.

I've watched the Eagles on Altitude whenever they've been on (last week they played New Mexico and hammered them 9-1). They've got one thing going for them on TV, a professional announcing crew.

The play by play man is Mike Haynes (Avs radio play by play man), the color analyst is Peter McNabb (Avs television color analyst) and the ice level reporter is Norm Jones (Avs radio color analyst). I guess these guys need something to do while the pros are out and it's nice to hear familisr voices calling a hockey game.

FSN has been carrying plenty of college hockey on Fridays & Saturdays. Last night they showed the Michigan Tech/Minnesota game and they televise most of the University of Denver games that are slated for broadcast.

There's a hockey fix to be had. It's not the NHL, but it is hockey.

I'd also recommend that anyone who has the chance to check out a National Lacrosse League game. I've watched the Colorado Mammoth on television since last year and finally got out to a game a couple of weeks ago, I was very surprised at what I found.

First, I always thought they kind of fudged the attendance a bit on TV, but then I saw it with my own eyes. There were more than 17,000 people at Pepsi Center for a lacrosse game and the crowd was into it from the start.

They put on a hell of a show. Between the intros (which feature the cheerleaders being driven out onto the field on Harleys & fireworks), the music during the game and the PA announcer (local radio moron Willie B.) egging the crowd on, it was a lot more fun than one would expect.

Then you take into account that these players aren't getting rich playing lacrosse as practically all of them have regular jobs and fly in for the games on the weekends. Love of the game baby, gotta respect that.

I miss the NHL, but these things help take the edge off.

[Breck Bronc]

:kiddingme

WTF?! Hey if you want to get bent over this sh#t then fine. Don't blame me! Don't blame Canada neither. If we want our game back we'll get it one way or another. If we can get a league where teams can survive in Winnipeg or Quebec City then so be it.

It's the cities like New York, Detroit, and Dallas that created this mess in the first place. So go blame the "jerkoffs" south of the border before you try and slam somebody posting something noteworthy on the hockey front.Simmer down. mtbrncofn obviously wasn't calling you or Canadians jerkoffs. She was more than likely referirng to the NHL and NHLPA participants that have led us to no hockey for 2004-'05 and maybe '05-'06.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

or she could have been talking about the team Linden plays for

[Tredici]

:kiddingme

WTF?! Hey if you want to get bent over this sh#t then fine. Don't blame me! Don't blame Canada neither. If we want our game back we'll get it one way or another. If we can get a league where teams can survive in Winnipeg or Quebec City then so be it.

It's the cities like New York, Detroit, and Dallas that created this mess in the first place. So go blame the "jerkoffs" south of the border before you try and slam somebody posting something noteworthy on the hockey front.

You obviously took Montana's post on a personel level. If a hockey league operated just in Canada can survive, then that would be great. Then maybe we wouldn't see expansion teams in places like Nashville, Columbus, and two in Florida because certain teams needed cash influx via franchise fees. Over expansion has contributed heavily to the current situation. Robbing Peter to pay Paul isn't ever the best of fiscal plans.

On the other hand maybe it's the successful Stateside franchises you identified who are the root of the problem.

I did hear it will be a different NHL that returns. Supposedly they will be implementing the removal of the red line and the OT Shoot Out. I don't know about any of the other rule change proposals.

And they've had a really unique idea. Market their Super Stars....

[Mtbrncofn]

:kiddingme

WTF?! Hey if you want to get bent over this sh#t then fine. Don't blame me! Don't blame Canada neither. If we want our game back we'll get it one way or another. If we can get a league where teams can survive in Winnipeg or Quebec City then so be it.

It's the cities like New York, Detroit, and Dallas that created this mess in the first place. So go blame the "jerkoffs" south of the border before you try and slam somebody posting something noteworthy on the hockey front.


Listen here, Mr. Got My Panties in a Wad....unless your name was Linden, Daly, Goodenow, Bettman, Hotchkiss or any of the other higher ups, that jerkoff comment was aimed at you. If not, go untwist your panties and have a beer.

[Mtbrncofn]

Simmer down. mtbrncofn obviously wasn't calling you or Canadians jerkoffs. She was more than likely referirng to the NHL and NHLPA participants that have led us to no hockey for 2004-'05 and maybe '05-'06.
Exactly right, Breck. And what Herc said too could also apply. :)

[Hogan11]

Wasn't the WHA gonna try to start up again? I understand the team in Quebec City wanted to be called "The Nords" but a certain NHL franchise wouldn't allow them to have their old name and logo back and as a result, they pulled the plug on that entire perspective franchise because they couldn't perserve the history of hockey that was there.

Given that Aubut basically sold out the people there, I thought the least they could do was relinquish this much back to them.....why should the Av's care anyways?? It's not like they ever acknowledge the Nordiques of the past outside of that one exhibition game there a few years ago....to the current owners and probably 99% of Av's fans, the franchise history begins when they hit town and not before....so what was the big deal?

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Nothing will get done until a drop dead date is announced, and it gets close to that day. So until that has passed, I still think there will be a season of some length. Both sides know that is not in their best interest to lose the season.

[Boogerboots]

Listen here, Mr. Got My Panties in a Wad....unless your name was Linden, Daly, Goodenow, Bettman, Hotchkiss or any of the other higher ups, that jerkoff comment was aimed at you. If not, go untwist your panties and have a beer.

Sorry my bad!

I'm pissed about the situation and misread your take. I think I had too many brewskies. :dummy:

For what it's worth, most sportscasts are spouting rumors that the NHL board of governors are going to meet sometime this week and offer the union one more deal. I think they will use the publicity tactic of forcing Goodenow to put the proposed deal to an open vote to all of the PA members.

They will make the deal sweet for the players below the league average ( about 90% of the membership ) and really force them to reconsider the path the union is taking. It's only the minority superstars and the union reps that are steering the union's policies.

If the union renegs and they don't allow the open vote, it will look bad for the union and would also be a strike against them when the impasse issue is brought up.

But if you're looking for really good hockey, you'll have to wait til late April to early May for the IIHF world hockey championship.

http://web1.icehockey2005.com/

More than likely all the ex-NHLers will be there and make for some decient hockey. Otherwise I think that'll be it.

[alkemical]

Go hershey bears!


i was going to see them this weekend that went past, but we got pelted with snow pretty fiercly.

[bendog]

Wasn't the WHA gonna try to start up again? I understand the team in Quebec City wanted to be called "The Nords" but a certain NHL franchise wouldn't allow them to have their old name and logo back and as a result, they pulled the plug on that entire perspective franchise because they couldn't perserve the history of hockey that was there.

Given that Aubut basically sold out the people there, I thought the least they could do was relinquish this much back to them.....why should the Av's care anyways?? It's not like they ever acknowledge the Nordiques of the past outside of that one exhibition game there a few years ago....to the current owners and probably 99% of Av's fans, the franchise history begins when they hit town and not before....so what was the big deal?

They're canadians. Don't give em our used cow poo for free.

ps, my town lost its hockey team. I'm dead until AA baseball starts. ahhhhrrrrgagy

[alkemical]

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05022/446375.stm

Recchi's love of game could take him to Wilkes-Barre
Saturday, January 22, 2005

By Dave Molinari, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

Mark Recchi has 1,201 points in the National Hockey League. He owns a Stanley Cup ring and has played in seven all-star games.

Those are pretty nice credentials. Might get him into the Hall of Fame someday.

For now, though, what Recchi craves most -- aside from an immediate resolution to the NHL lockout -- is a trip to the American Hockey League.

Not because he's desperate for a minor-league paycheck or wants to steal work from a prospect. Fact is, there's nothing sinister about Recchi's interest in making a trip to Wilkes-Barre, home of the Penguins' top minor-league team.

"It'd be nice to just go down there," he said. "I just want to have the opportunity to see some hockey, first of all. And I want to meet some of the kids. I haven't met any of them.

"If the coach [Michel Therrien] wouldn't mind, I'd maybe like to even go to practice a couple of days, just for the heck of it."

[Mtbrncofn]

Sorry my bad!

I'm pissed about the situation and misread your take. I think I had too many brewskies. :dummy:




No problem. It happens to the best of us. :) I'm pissed too, that's where my post was coming from.

[Mtbrncofn]

Check this out. I swear I have never seen a picture of Bill Daly without this look on his face.

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20050119/capt.ilnh10201192251.nhl_lockout_ilnh102.jpg

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/nm/20050121/mdf829836.jpg

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Hockey/NHL/2005/01/10/daly_bill250.jpg

[alkemical]

the commish!

[Mtbrncofn]

I don't know how much stock can be put into what Chelly has to say, but FWIW, he still thinks there's a shot at saving it.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?ID=112541&hubName=nhl

Chelios optimistic season will be saved


TSN.ca Staff with Detroit News files



1/25/2005

One of the more vocal personalities of the NHL lockout has spoken up again, as Chris Chelios believes that it's only a matter of time before the NHL season resumes.



After two days of small-group talks last week between the NHL and NHLPA, and with another planned for Wednesday, the 21-year NHL veteran is confident a collective bargaining agreement will be worked out.



"Almost everybody is starting to think something is going to happen now that there are some talks," Chelios told the Detroit News.



"Most of the guys, I've talked to Steve (Yzerman) and read what he said in the newspapers, he still believes there's a deal to get done. It's still not to the final minute where it's do-or-die."



Chelios also believes a meaningful regular season and playoffs can still be played out.



"Everybody would be relieved and happy to see any kind of a season and save the game, or what's left of it, because I'm sure we've upset a lot of people," he told the newspaper.



NHLPA President Trevor Linden and some of his fellow players came out swinging last Friday, suggesting the season was likely done given the league's insistence on a fixed link between player costs and league revenue - a salary cap. But the tough talk Friday may have been by design, hoping the league would react by softening their new offer.



Linden also told the union's 700-odd players via a message on the NHLPA's private website not to expect hockey this year.

[Tredici]

Cheliosaurus must've been having a good day. You know how dementia comes and goes....

Bwahahahahaha.

[Tredici]

Wasn't the WHA gonna try to start up again? I understand the team in Quebec City wanted to be called "The Nords" but a certain NHL franchise wouldn't allow them to have their old name and logo back and as a result, they pulled the plug on that entire perspective franchise because they couldn't perserve the history of hockey that was there.

Given that Aubut basically sold out the people there, I thought the least they could do was relinquish this much back to them.....why should the Av's care anyways?? It's not like they ever acknowledge the Nordiques of the past outside of that one exhibition game there a few years ago....to the current owners and probably 99% of Av's fans, the franchise history begins when they hit town and not before....so what was the big deal?


Isn't that determined on how the deal was structured? Kind of like the moves in the NFL. I know the city of Cleveland reserved the rights to the Browns name and all records attached to the team. I don't think Baltimore did that with the Colts. I think everything moved with them to Indiana.

I guess it depends on which way you feel you are preserving history.

[Tredici]

SOME NHL NEWS!!!


FORT LAUDERDALE, Fla. - Police say Colorado Avalanche forward Peter Worrell identified himself as his friend and former teammate, Andreas Lilja, when he was arrested for a traffic violation last month.

Worrell is scheduled to be arraigned Wednesday on charges of driving with a suspended license and resisting arrest without violence. His attorney, Mitchell Polay, declined to comment Tuesday.
Lilja was playing hockey in Sweden at the time. He and Worrell were teammates with the Florida Panthers in 2002-03.

Driving an SUV owned by Lilja, Worrell was pulled over at 2 a.m. Dec. 6 in Pompano Beach because the vehicle had an expired tag, according to an arrest report from the Broward County Sheriff's Department. Worrell repeatedly identified himself as Lilja, Deputy Lionel Davis wrote in his report.

"After asking the defendant several times his name, Worrell continued to deliberately falsify and obstruct my investigation," Davis wrote. The officer said he cleared up the misidentification when he found Worrell's passport in the SUV.

The case is the latest in series of legal problems for Worrell, who lives in Coral Springs.

He has had his license suspended twice because of two convictions for drunken driving. In June 2002, he was arrested for DUI, leaving the scene of an accident and criminal mischief for kicking a police car's window off its track. He pleaded no contest and was sentenced to 10 days in jail.

Because of the NHL lockout, Lilja has yet to play for his latest team, the Nashville Predators.

-
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That's as good as it gets folks...

Sorry.

[Mtbrncofn]

At least Pete didn't beat a woman, assault an officer, drive drunk again, etc.

[Breck Bronc]

Isn't that determined on how the deal was structured? Kind of like the moves in the NFL. I know the city of Cleveland reserved the rights to the Browns name and all records attached to the team. I don't think Baltimore did that with the Colts. I think everything moved with them to Indiana.

I guess it depends on which way you feel you are preserving history.I've heard the Devils don't even include records from the Colorado Rockies and Kansas City Scouts in their media guide.

I know the Avs have taken some flack for not continuing the retirement of numbers for Michel Goulet and Peter Statsny from Quebec. Those guys still have banners hanging in Le Colisee in Quebec, where they belong. And I'm sure if Goulet and Statsny were mad about it they either wouldn't work for the organization (Goulet) or send their son to play college hockey in Denver (Statsny).

[Breck Bronc]

SOME NHL NEWS!!!


FORT LAUDERDALE, Fla. - Police say Colorado Avalanche forward Peter Worrell identified himself as his friend and former teammate, Andreas Lilja, when he was arrested for a traffic violation last month.

Worrell is scheduled to be arraigned Wednesday on charges of driving with a suspended license and resisting arrest without violence. His attorney, Mitchell Polay, declined to comment Tuesday.
Lilja was playing hockey in Sweden at the time. He and Worrell were teammates with the Florida Panthers in 2002-03.

Driving an SUV owned by Lilja, Worrell was pulled over at 2 a.m. Dec. 6 in Pompano Beach because the vehicle had an expired tag, according to an arrest report from the Broward County Sheriff's Department. Worrell repeatedly identified himself as Lilja, Deputy Lionel Davis wrote in his report.

"After asking the defendant several times his name, Worrell continued to deliberately falsify and obstruct my investigation," Davis wrote. The officer said he cleared up the misidentification when he found Worrell's passport in the SUV.

The case is the latest in series of legal problems for Worrell, who lives in Coral Springs.

He has had his license suspended twice because of two convictions for drunken driving. In June 2002, he was arrested for DUI, leaving the scene of an accident and criminal mischief for kicking a police car's window off its track. He pleaded no contest and was sentenced to 10 days in jail.

Because of the NHL lockout, Lilja has yet to play for his latest team, the Nashville Predators.

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That's as good as it gets folks...

Sorry.Yeah Pete, you sure do look like an Andreas Lilja from Sweden.

Might be time to cut ties with Worrell and find a new fighter. The guy can't stop getting into a vehicle when he's not allowed to. I'm thinking New York would be a good place for him. That way he can just ride the subway or take taxis wherever he needs to go.

[Hogan11]

Isn't that determined on how the deal was structured? Kind of like the moves in the NFL. I know the city of Cleveland reserved the rights to the Browns name and all records attached to the team. I don't think Baltimore did that with the Colts. I think everything moved with them to Indiana.

I guess it depends on which way you feel you are preserving history.

Modell gave Cleveland back the records and rights to the name.....Irsay did no such thing with Baltimore.

The Av's blocked the Quebec franchise in the fledgling new WHA from the Nords logo and name......yet they rarely (if ever) acknowledge the history or true story on how the team ended up playing in Colorado. My point is if they never recognize the true history then why block an entire community from rekindling it's only claim to pro-sports fame?

To be honest, it all seems kinda selfish to me.

[FADERPROOF]

I'm itching so bad for some hockey, I'm even watching replays of Columbus Blue Jackets games that they show on FSN here.

[Nuggets4]

http://www.canada.com/fortstjohn/story.html?id=a44ffe65-4c6b-412d-94f1-ee63ed02c76d

"He asked that Mr. Bettman and Mr. Goodenow know that they are 'skunks' for denying him the pleasure of watching the NHL on TV this year," read his death notice. "He also asked that Mr. Bettman step aside and give Wayne Gretzky the job that rightfully belongs to him."

[alkemical]

I've been going to AHL games for my fix

[Boogerboots]

This one is kinda off topic but worth mentioning especialy to those prima-donna players that rake in the millions these days....

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?id=112571

One of the best players ever to play in the NHL, the gentleman Jean Beliveau, is putting up many of his momentos, that he collected over his career, up for auction.

Items can be viewed at http://www.classicauctions.net/ and they include his Stanley Cup ring from 1958-59, Conn Smythe trophies and about 200 other items of great hockey history.

The guy is now 74 and is in remission from throat cancer. He said that he's doing this to ensure there's something there for his daughter and grand-daughter after he's gone.

So here's a past marquee player selling off his pocsessions just to make $200,000 US if all items sell at expected payouts. Maybe the whiny overpaid "Superstars" of today should take note and realize that cutting a few million to save the game pales in comparison to sellling your legacy just to ensure a comfortable life for your children.

[Tredici]

This one is kinda off topic but worth mentioning especialy to those prima-donna players that rake in the millions these days....

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?id=112571

One of the best players ever to play in the NHL, the gentleman Jean Beliveau, is putting up many of his momentos, that he collected over his career, up for auction.

Items can be viewed at http://www.classicauctions.net/ and they include his Stanley Cup ring from 1958-59, Conn Smythe trophies and about 200 other items of great hockey history.

The guy is now 74 and is in remission from throat cancer. He said that he's doing this to ensure there's something there for his daughter and grand-daughter after he's gone.

So here's a past marquee player selling off his pocsessions just to make $200,000 US if all items sell at expected payouts. Maybe the whiny overpaid "Superstars" of today should take note and realize that cutting a few million to save the game pales in comparison to sellling your legacy just to ensure a comfortable life for your children.

Or maybe those overpaid "superstars" don't want to end up having to sell their legacies to ensure a comfortable life for their children.

There are two ways to look at it. The owners say 80% of the players would benefit from their proposed salary cap because they would make more money now. Very true. However, if you are one of the talented, young guns don't you want the opportunity to make the type money earned by superstars? Do you really want to say, no matter how good I am, no matter how many tickets I can sell, this is my limit?

It's an issue I can see both sides of.

[Mtbrncofn]

I'm itching so bad for some hockey, I'm even watching replays of Columbus Blue Jackets games that they show on FSN here.

Wow, now that is pretty desperate! ;)

[alkemical]

Or maybe those overpaid "superstars" don't want to end up having to sell their legacies to ensure a comfortable life for their children.

There are two ways to look at it. The owners say 80% of the players would benefit from their proposed salary cap because they would make more money now. Very true. However, if you are one of the talented, young guns don't you want the opportunity to make the type money earned by superstars? Do you really want to say, no matter how good I am, no matter how many tickets I can sell, this is my limit?

It's an issue I can see both sides of.

i dunno - i think a guy can still be paid if a team is willing to pay it and have scrubs on the ice

[Boogerboots]

Or maybe those overpaid "superstars" don't want to end up having to sell their legacies to ensure a comfortable life for their children.



There is no comparison to what a superstar made back in the 50's and 60's to what the average player makes now. The pay scale has gone so far out of whack , it's unreal.

Guy Lafleur made 5 million his entire career. Bobby Holik made almost double that in one season. There is no justifying that no matter how you slice it.

Unless you're gambling your money away like Roenick or putting all you investment eggs in a basket with a hole in it like Modano, no player in today's NHL would have to resort to selling off their trophies like Beliveau is doing now.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Today's meeting has ended, and they're supposed to now meet in NYC tomorrow. League offices just happen to be in the City. If Bettman is being brought back in, maybe they are close. The League didn't come with a new proposal today, which I think means they've got the basis for something already, and they are simply hammering out the specific details of the new CBA.

[Mtbrncofn]

Man, I hope you're right, Herc. :pray:

[Tredici]

There is no comparison to what a superstar made back in the 50's and 60's to what the average player makes now. The pay scale has gone so far out of whack , it's unreal.

Guy Lafleur made 5 million his entire career. Bobby Holik made almost double that in one season. There is no justifying that no matter how you slice it.

Unless you're gambling your money away like Roenick or putting all you investment eggs in a basket with a hole in it like Modano, no player in today's NHL would have to resort to selling off their trophies like Beliveau is doing now.

I agree no player should have to resort to that. But it's not uncommon. You hear that type of story around ex-NFL guys all the time. Most people live beyond their means. Which is why nearly everyone has some type of debt. Unfortunately making a lot of money doesn't automatically equate to fiscal responsibility.

And I don't think the scale is out of whack. $5 Million in the 50 or 60's probably equates to about four times that amount now.

No matter how much someone gets paid we are still likely to hear this type of sad story. But the question remains what did Beliveau do with his life outside of hockey? Did he have no other earning potential? Or should a pro career, no matter how short or long in duration provide for a player's monetary situation for life? I would say Beliveau chose this as his legacy to his children.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Damn, lots of rumors today.

League was supposed to come with a new proposal.

Rumor that the deal is a $50M hard cap and an exemption for one "franchise" player whose salary won't count towards the cap. No idea how someone will be declared a "franchise" player though. Possibly a salary rollback also.

Scotty Bowman on Detroit radio this afternoon saying there would be hockey by next Saturday. Ended his interview with that comment, so it's kind of vague whether that'd be just camp or preseason games by then.

They're going to talk tonight and tomorrow also.

[Hogan11]

Rumor that the deal is a $50M hard cap and an exemption for one "franchise" player whose salary won't count towards the cap. No idea how someone will be declared a "franchise" player though. Possibly a salary rollback also.

I wish there was a deal like this established in MLB.

[alkemical]

I guess you could use a system similar to the franchise tag, where each year you could tag a player and pay them so they are exempt.

[Mtbrncofn]

Scotty Bowman on Detroit radio this afternoon saying there would be hockey by next Saturday. Ended his interview with that comment, so it's kind of vague whether that'd be just camp or preseason games by then.

They're going to talk tonight and tomorrow also.


Next Saturday, eh? Seems like a reach to me, but I'll take anything at this point. Man, I hope the Bulldog is on the up and up.

[alkemical]

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05026/448094.stm

NHL lockout continues; Lemieux's role in talks uncertain
Wednesday, January 26, 2005

By Dave Molinari, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

TORONTO -- Reports swirling around this city insist that Penguins owner Mario Lemieux will be present today when officials of the NHL and its Players Association meet for another round of labor discussions.

Precisely what, if any, role he would play in the talks isn't clear, however.

NHL executive vice president Bill Daly said in an e-mail to the Toronto Star last night that "Mario will not be part of the meeting."

Attempts to contact Lemieux for comment were unsuccessful. Several acquaintances and Penguins officials said Lemieux, who has withdrawn from the Bob Hope Chrysler Classic golf tournament, had not mentioned plans to travel to Toronto.

[Mtbrncofn]

Come on, Mario...help save hockey like you saved your Pens!

[alkemical]

Come on, Mario...help save hockey like you saved your Pens!


I'm often miffed on how little attention is paid to wayne and mario on this issue. it irks me. I understand that both have to stradle the fence on this issue, but still you'd think that both could act as mediators.

[Mtbrncofn]

You think they'd be darn good in that situation. But you see, that's just too obvious, hence a no no.

[alkemical]

You think they'd be darn good in that situation. But you see, that's just too obvious, hence a no no.


i think the richer you get, the dumber you become - you pay other people to think for you

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Talks are done for the night. It appears the PA rejected the Owners' new proposal. All over the place on what they proposed. Some reports say hard caps for teams (TSN currently), earlier reports said hard caps for player salaries and a luxury tax on teams (TSN earlier today), and thirdly guys on MSG said it was some sort of a hard/soft cap, luxury tax hybrid.

This is getting really old.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

and now Sportsnet says that no official proposal was made, but different salary cap concepts were discussed.

[Tredici]

Talks are done for the night. It appears the PA rejected the Owners' new proposal. All over the place on what they proposed. Some reports say hard caps for teams (TSN currently), earlier reports said hard caps for player salaries and a luxury tax on teams (TSN earlier today), and thirdly guys on MSG said it was some sort of a hard/soft cap, luxury tax hybrid.

This is getting really old.


Sigh.....

[Mtbrncofn]

Sigh.....


Ditto.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

still can't believe the league hasn't announced a drop-dead date yet

[Boogerboots]

still can't believe the league hasn't announced a drop-dead date yet

Some say Bettman never will. They've all seen the fallout that landed on Bud Selig after he cancelled the remainder of the season during their strike a decade ago. His personna hasn't recovered since.

Realistically if they don't have any sort of progress this week, many don't see any chance of salvaging the season.

I like the idea of a 20 game season to seed the teams and then have all 30 teams go into a tournament style of playoff for the cup. There would be enough time to get all that done before the end of June.

[alkemical]

Bettman's done IMO - he will be replaced soon.

[Hogan11]

They are almost locked into cancelling it all now...I mean, how are you gonna save it this late and not have it be an insult to SC Champs that have come before it?

If they're gonna trash the season (IMO they've done so already) might as well hunker down for the long haul and hope for an owners victory in breaking the union. I say that not only for financial stability for the NHL, but also for the possible positive ramifications this will have in other leagues that desperately need salary constraints (I'm talking MLB, where a hard cap and real revenue sharing is a must here).

I've given up on this season and am awaiting the start of spring training the minute the Pro Bowl is over.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Bettman's done IMO - he will be replaced soon.

Goodenow's done, he's the one who is hurting the interests of the majority of his guys. Bettman is doing what the owners gave him power to do. He might be done b/c of the PR fallout, but he's doing exactly what he was told to do. By keeping this going, Goodenow kow-tows to the high salaried players and really hurts the 3rd and 4th liners and bottom pairing defenseman. Those guys don't have long careers or make a lot of money, and there's a lot more of them then there are Jagrs and Modanos. They need to maximize their earning time, and Europe doesn't pay near the same level as the NHL. Supposedly a few team reps have done internal polls of their guys, and the majority on those teams would accept a cap if it meant the season could be saved.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

2 people out there today with what each says the current proposal is:

Brian Burke on TSN

1. 6 year deal, short year this year and six more
2. Luxury tax is on the table
3. Profit sharing; if it tops 100 million it's a 50/50 share
4. Arbitration; rights for clubs and salaries

Still linkage apparently. Interesting point, any lying, million dollar fine and a first round pick, second time you get caught it's 5 million and three first round picks.

and Mark Madden on ESPN radio in Pittsburgh

Here are the details from Madden:
"The talks didn't break off last week, they ended, and the players know they lost." He also said that this week will be spent finalizing the details and deciding how the PA will present the news that they accepted a cap. There's an 80% chance that the deal will be finalized Thursday or Friday. The season will start on approximatly February 23rd.

Here are the two options:

40 million soft cap with a stiff luxury tax up to 50 million or a 40 million cap with a franchise player not counted in the 40 million.

***Copied from another board.

[alkemical]

Goodenow's done, he's the one who is hurting the interests of the majority of his guys. Bettman is doing what the owners gave him power to do. He might be done b/c of the PR fallout, but he's doing exactly what he was told to do. By keeping this going, Goodenow kow-tows to the high salaried players and really hurts the 3rd and 4th liners and bottom pairing defenseman. Those guys don't have long careers or make a lot of money, and there's a lot more of them then there are Jagrs and Modanos. They need to maximize their earning time, and Europe doesn't pay near the same level as the NHL. Supposedly a few team reps have done internal polls of their guys, and the majority on those teams would accept a cap if it meant the season could be saved.

I think bettman just markets the game bad, and he may win this, but he may not keep his job long term.

[alkemical]

2 people out there today with what each says the current proposal is:

Brian Burke on TSN

1. 6 year deal, short year this year and six more
2. Luxury tax is on the table
3. Profit sharing; if it tops 100 million it's a 50/50 share
4. Arbitration; rights for clubs and salaries

Still linkage apparently. Interesting point, any lying, million dollar fine and a first round pick, second time you get caught it's 5 million and three first round picks.

and Mark Madden on ESPN radio in Pittsburgh

Here are the details from Madden:
"The talks didn't break off last week, they ended, and the players know they lost." He also said that this week will be spent finalizing the details and deciding how the PA will present the news that they accepted a cap. There's an 80% chance that the deal will be finalized Thursday or Friday. The season will start on approximatly February 23rd.

Here are the two options:

40 million soft cap with a stiff luxury tax up to 50 million or a 40 million cap with a franchise player not counted in the 40 million.

***Copied from another board.


good stuff

[Clockwork Orange]

2 people out there today with what each says the current proposal is:

Brian Burke on TSN

1. 6 year deal, short year this year and six more
2. Luxury tax is on the table
3. Profit sharing; if it tops 100 million it's a 50/50 share
4. Arbitration; rights for clubs and salaries

Still linkage apparently. Interesting point, any lying, million dollar fine and a first round pick, second time you get caught it's 5 million and three first round picks.

and Mark Madden on ESPN radio in Pittsburgh

Here are the details from Madden:
"The talks didn't break off last week, they ended, and the players know they lost." He also said that this week will be spent finalizing the details and deciding how the PA will present the news that they accepted a cap. There's an 80% chance that the deal will be finalized Thursday or Friday. The season will start on approximatly February 23rd.

Here are the two options:

40 million soft cap with a stiff luxury tax up to 50 million or a 40 million cap with a franchise player not counted in the 40 million.

***Copied from another board.

I could live with any of those proposals, whatever gets the players back on the ice.

But of course there's always the rule changes that could/should be implemented (no touch icing, touch up offsides, etc.), they'll have to get together on these quickly in order to get them implemented for the start if the season. I bring this up only because all of the talk about the off-ice issues seem to be overshadowing the glaring on-ice problems that will continue to exist until there's something done about them.

Here's where I'd usually go into my rant about mandatory visors, shootouts and the red line, but I'll hold on to that until something becomes official and we'ev got actual NHL hockey to talk about.

I hope this is all true. I really, really hope.

[Mtbrncofn]

we'ev got actual NHL hockey to talk about.




That'll be the day. I find my bitterness level to be at an all time high right about now toward this whole thing.

The thing right now that pisses me off the most is this whole cock tease thing they have going. We've got people here and there, important people even, ( i.e. Scotty Bowman ) saying they'll be playing next week. This is worse than just saying its done, live with it. At least I don't have to get up every day thinking I will turn on the TV and see that maybe a deal has been done. I just want a decision either way. I'm sick of the limbo.

[Mtbrncofn]

This is not the way we should see Stevie Y's career end. He is one of the classiest guys in the league despite his being a member of the Wings. Now its looking like our last memory of a great player will be one of him writhing in pain and blood pouring out of his broken face. F*ckin shame.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?ID=113229&hubName=nhl

Site Map »




Yzerman: I don't see it happening


TSN.ca Staff



1/30/2005

NHL legend Steve Yzerman, who was among the few optimists, appears to have lost any hope that this season can be saved.



''I don't see it happening,'' the Red Wings' captain told the Detroit News. ''The philosophies haven't changed and there's no compromise in sight. I'd hoped at the last moment the owners would move off the salary cap, but they're not going to. I don't see a deal being done in the next week, and that's pretty much all the time that's left.''



After meetings Wednesday and Thursday appeared to solve nothing, more players are now looking at heading to Europe where some leagues will require commitments this week.



''A lot of guys have waited around, but there will never be an official cancellation, so at some point, guys just have to decide to go,'' Yzerman told the Detroit News. ''I won't say it's an absolute we won't see hockey until next January, but it certainly is a possibility.''






Related Info
Messier's playing days could be done

If the NHL doesn't get started until next January, Yzerman may not play again.



''I've pretty much got my mind made up about what I'm going to do, but there's no need to say for sure yet,'' Yzerman said to the Detroit News. ''If next season started on time and the Red Wings called about playing, it's something I'd definitely consider. But starting in January might be different.''

_____

Also one more thing maybe some of you guys can help me out with. I don't understand why they are all saying next January if this season truly is lost. Why wouldn't they try to start the season on time? What is the deal with the whole January thing?

[Clockwork Orange]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/scorecard/10/19/top10.playing.with.pain/p1_yzerman.jpg

It'd be a damn shame if the last on-ice memory of Yzerman was him writhing around after taking a puck to the eye in last years playoffs. He certainly deserves better.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Also one more thing maybe some of you guys can help me out with. I don't understand why they are all saying next January if this season truly is lost. Why wouldn't they try to start the season on time? What is the deal with the whole January thing?

I think if the season is lost, there won't be any negotiations until the summer. There's no reason too, and they almost look bad if they cancel the season and then come to a deal a week or two after the cancelation. They'll wait until the summer and let the process repeat itself all over again, with the threat of a second season losing games as their motivating factor. Of course if the sides are as far apart as is claimed, it'll just be like they're starting all over again. Nothing was accomplished this "season", so there's nothing to build off of when the talks eventually resume sometime later this year.

If the season is lost, revenues are not going to be at the same levels they were in the past. The players would be idiots to allow the season to be canceled, because they will never be able to negotiate a better deal then they can right now. The pie will be smaller, and the inevitable cap or luxury tax with teeth will be set at a lower level next season. I'm sure the union wouldn't be happy either if some teams had to fold, and some of its members are now jobless.

I also don't believe the BS that both sides are still so fundamentally and philosophically far apart, that the season is lost. If that was the case, the season would have been scratched by now. It also looks like the sides have been in almost continuous contact over the last week and a half even though they only "officially" met for a few days last week. They wouldn't continually butt heads and get nothing accomplished, and then continue to go back for more. It's a waste of time and resources if if that were true. I think the framework is there at least, or maybe a deal is pretty much complete and they're now trying to package it so the players don't look like they lost this battle. ****, I don't know.

[Mtbrncofn]

Thanks, Herc.

[Mtbrncofn]

Talks are done for the day. ( Didn't even know any had been scheduled ) Shockingly, they got nowhere. Strike 563, you're all out. I consider myself one of the most optimistic of people when it comes to this, but even I am almost to the point where I want to scream, go f*ck yourself to all of them.

Here's our gem for the day:
"We have agreed to meet again tomorrow and intend to keep working on this until a resolution can be reached," said Daly.

Someone please notify me when hell has frozen over. Maybe we can get some hockey going down there. :cuss:

[alkemical]

Talks are done for the day. ( Didn't even know any had been scheduled ) Shockingly, they got nowhere. Strike 563, you're all out. I consider myself one of the most optimistic of people when it comes to this, but even I am almost to the point where I want to scream, go f*ck yourself to all of them.

Here's our gem for the day:
"We have agreed to meet again tomorrow and intend to keep working on this until a resolution can be reached," said Daly.

Someone please notify me when hell has frozen over. Maybe we can get some hockey going down there. :cuss:


I feel like they are in an ordinaly business, now they are having meetings about meetings.

[Tredici]

But wait!

Bettman to swoop in to the rescue today!!!!

Yadda yadda yadda...salary cap.
Yadda yadda yadda.... no.
Yadda yadda yadda...salary cap.
Yadda yadda yadda.... no.
Yadda yadda yadda...salary cap.
Yadda yadda yadda.... no.
Yadda yadda yadda...salary cap.
Yadda yadda yadda.... no.
Yadda yadda yadda...salary cap.
Yadda yadda yadda.... no.
Yadda yadda yadda...salary cap.
Yadda yadda yadda.... no.
Yadda yadda yadda...salary cap.
Yadda yadda yadda.... no.
Yadda yadda yadda...salary cap.
Yadda yadda yadda.... no.
Yadda yadda yadda...salary cap.
Yadda yadda yadda.... no.
Yadda yadda yadda...salary cap.
Yadda yadda yadda.... no
Yadda yadda yadda...salary cap.
Yadda yadda yadda.... no.

Announcement. There will be no season.

[Tredici]

Addition of Red Wings irks some in UHL

Vets have to accept salary cap in minors
February 2, 2005
BY GEORGE SIPPLE
FREE PRESS SPORTS WRITER

Hypocrites.

That's what Kevin Kerr -- the all-time leader in goals scored among minor leaguers -- calls NHL players who sign to play in the United Hockey League.

Kerr, a Flint Generals forward playing in his 18th season, broke the record Jan. 7 and has 668 career goals.

He said the jersey he wore when he set the record is supposed to go to the Hockey Hall of Fame, and he found it ironic that he might be facing an NHL standout when the Generals host the Motor City Mechanics tonight.

"It wouldn't be a thrill," he said of facing locked-out Red Wing Derian Hatcher, who has agreed to play for the Motor City Mechanics this season, and might make his debut tonight. Red Wings Chris Chelios and Kris Draper will join the Mechanics later.

"The hypocrisy of it is unbelievable," Kerr said. "They don't want a salary cap, but they'll come to a league that has a salary cap and take someone else's job." These guys have millions in the bank, but they come and take someone's $500 job. Pathetic!

The Mechanics haven't released anyone as of yet, but certain players will see reduced playing time, and cuts are expected, team president John Tull said.

The UHL has a salary cap of $10,000 per week for a 20-man active roster. Kerr doesn't understand why a player like Hatcher, who makes about $6 million a season, would play in a league where the average salary is $500 a week.

Five Michigan teams -- Kalamazoo, Muskegon, Flint, Port Huron and Motor City (Fraser) -- play in the 14-team UHL.

UHL president Richard Brosal said Tuesday it is ironic that players opposed to an NHL salary cap are coming to a minor league that wouldn't survive without one.

"Not a chance," he said. "We are living proof, 14 continuous years. One of the main foundations of this league is having a salary cap in place."

Brosal said teams are free to sign whom they want, so long as they adhere to the league's salary-cap rules. Teams are permitted to have seven veterans in their lineup. Brosal said he doesn't see the signings by the Mechanics as the start of sweeping roster moves in the UHL.

He said he has heard rumors that other teams are pursuing NHL players, but added: "I think it's a little premature to say the floodgates are going to open up. I don't think that's going to happen."

Kerr hopes not.

"I make $700 a week, and I have a wife and two kids and a mortgage payment," he said. "Here I wish I could play in the NHL for a fraction of what they make, and here they're going to come play in our league for $500 a week. It's really bizarre."

Kerr said he plays because "I don't know anything else. I want to get into coaching when I'm done."

Each summer, when the hockey season is over, he returns to North Bay, Ontario, to work for his family's pool business. Without the summer work, he wouldn't be able to make hockey his career.

"I don't think those guys have ever wondered about working a day in their life," he said. "They probably make more in a week than I do my whole season."

Brosal and some UHL coaches view the signings as a positive for the league because it will expose the league to people who wouldn't otherwise consider watching a game.

But Kerr doesn't see a long-term benefit.

The Generals sold more than 1,000 tickets Tuesday to fans anticipating that one or more of the Red Wings will make their UHL debut tonight.

"A lady bought 20 tickets that had never come to a Generals game before," Kerr said. "What happens when they (the NHL players) are gone? That lady is never going to come back."

He said NHL players won't think twice about bolting as soon as their collective bargaining agreement is resolved.

"If the Red Wings said, 'We're starting tomorrow,' they wouldn't be worrying about the United Hockey League," he said. "They'd be at Joe Louis Arena getting ready for a game.

"If the NHL was playing today and Derian Hatcher was told to go down to the UHL for two weeks for conditioning, he'd laugh."

Kerr said NHL players are in a lose-lose situation by playing in the minors because fans will expect them to tear up the league.

Flint coach Robbie Nichols expects a physical game tonight. "The guys all finish their checks here," he said.

Asked if there was concern that UHL players might try to make a name for themselves by going after NHL players, Nichols said: "They're big boys -- they can take care of themselves. No different than playing the Toronto Maple Leafs. I don't think they'll purposely try to get a hit in."

Kerr plans to play his usual game.

"I'm 38," he said. "I'm 5-foot-10, 190 pounds. What am I going to do against Derian Hatcher?"

[bronco militia]

wow...nice find, Tred.

[Nuggets4]

F*ck the Red Wings.

[Nuggets4]

It's ov-ah.

Just read on another message board that a TV station in Canada is reporting that talks have fallen through and they're gonna make an official announcement sometime today or tomorrow.

It's a message board post, and I don't have a link, so take it with a grain of salt. That said, would it surprise anyone?

[Tredici]

Did anyone think Bettman joining the party was indicative of a good thing?

[RaiderH8r]

Hockey's f#kked. sad really, we had just begun to make gains in stealing the game from Canada. Ohhhh Canada....eh, our home and sacred land....you hoser.....sweet something something....your beer sucks.....

[Bronco_Beerslug]

I can't stand the NBA so I guess I'll just have to fish away the rest of Winter, Spring and Summer.
------------------------------------------
Season over!

ESPN.com news services

An NHL team owner who is requesting anonymity said he is expecting the league to make an announcement canceling the rest of the NHL season either after Thursday's meeting or Friday, EJ Hradek of ESPN the Magazine has learned.

NHL commissioner Gary Bettman and NHLPA Executive Director Bob Goodenow returned to the bargaining table Thursday. The two weren't present at a series of informal meetings the past two weeks.

The NHL is committed to getting cost certainty, and the players' association vows to never accept a salary cap, even the somewhat flexible one formally proposed by the league this week.

The lockout reached its 141st day Thursday, and it has forced the cancellation of 772 of the 1,230 regular-season games, plus the All-Star Game. The NHL is in danger of becoming the first major North American sports league to lose an entire season to a labor dispute.

Information from The Associated Press was used in this report.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=1983362

[RaiderH8r]

I can't stand the NBA so I guess I'll just have to fish away the rest of Winter, Spring and Summer.
------------------------------------------
Season over!

ESPN.com news services

An NHL team owner who is requesting anonymity said he is expecting the league to make an announcement canceling the rest of the NHL season either after Thursday's meeting or Friday, EJ Hradek of ESPN the Magazine has learned.

NHL commissioner Gary Bettman and NHLPA Executive Director Bob Goodenow returned to the bargaining table Thursday. The two weren't present at a series of informal meetings the past two weeks.

The NHL is committed to getting cost certainty, and the players' association vows to never accept a salary cap, even the somewhat flexible one formally proposed by the league this week.

The lockout reached its 141st day Thursday, and it has forced the cancellation of 772 of the 1,230 regular-season games, plus the All-Star Game. The NHL is in danger of becoming the first major North American sports league to lose an entire season to a labor dispute.

Information from The Associated Press was used in this report.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=1983362

Onward Scottish Highland Games. I like Angus McPherson in the Caber Toss.

[Rascal]

I put this one on the players...the last proposel from the owners looked fine by me.

Sorry but there needs to be a cap, football has one and it is doing just fine. The owners have made several concessions but the players haven't budged.

[Mtbrncofn]

What a bunch of assholes. All of 'em. String us along and throw out maybes here and there. I guess I was stupid for being an optimist.

Thank goodness for racing starting soon, but that just won't cut it. Sh*t, I just may have to pick a freakin baseball team and start watching. I'm gonna go kick the dog now and see if I feel better.

[Mtbrncofn]

I put this one on the players...the last proposel from the owners looked fine by me.

Sorry but there needs to be a cap, football has one and it is doing just fine. The owners have made several concessions but the players haven't budged.


You know what, I agree with you, rascal. I thought the last few proposals were decent. The hybrid cap/lux. tax thing certainly didn't sound bad to me, and a lot of the different ideas that Herc had posted from various sources seemed grand too.

This whole thing is just one big cluster f*ck, and now we are all suffering because of it. This is the kind of thing that can ruin one's month. ~Popps~

And as if the NHL didn't have a big enough black eye with the decline of interest in the damn sport, now it has a permanent one in the history books for being the first major league sport in North America to lose a whole f*ckin season to stupidity....or whatever it is they want to call it.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Did anyone think Bettman joining the party was indicative of a good thing?

You fail to mention that Goodenow was brought in for the first time in weeks too. Looking at those together, you hope that that meant there was a deal that just needed the principals to sign off on. Apparently that wasn't the case.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

This is the drop dead date that was needed, which is what Goodenow has wanted. Owners have made their last proposal, now the players can accept it or make some minor tweaks to it that still makes it viable.

Time to **** or get off the pot, PA. The owners aren't caving like they did in '94 and you cannot win this stand-off if it goes until next season. Teams will fold and the pie will be even smaller.

[Clockwork Orange]

You knew it was coming, it was just a matter of when.

I had really hoped that the players would realize that the gravy train days are over, that they're in a situation they can't come out ahead in and that they'd make the necessary concessions to the get game back on the ice.

That was apparently not to be. I thought the owners latest proposal was a bit more flexible, that it wasn't just "here's a hard cap and that's the way it is" as the players want everyone to believe.

I just don't see what part of "we can't spend what we're not making" the players don't understand. Several owners are drowning in red ink, there's no TV money and the players just want to keep salaries rising. Try again assholes.

Congrats to the NHL and NHLPA, you're about to make dubious history as the first league ever to lose an entire season to a work stoppage.

[alkemical]

You knew it was coming, it was just a matter of when.

I had really hoped that the players would realize that the gravy train days are over, that they're in a situation they can't come out ahead in and that they'd make the necessary concessions to the get game back on the ice.

That was apparently not to be. I thought the owners latest proposal was a bit more flexible, that it wasn't just "here's a hard cap and that's the way it is" as the players want everyone to believe.

I just don't see what part of "we can't spend what we're not making" the players don't understand. Several owners are drowning in red ink, there's no TV money and the players just want to keep salaries rising. Try again assholes.

Congrats to the NHL and NHLPA, you're about to make dubious history as the first league ever to lose an entire season to a work stoppage.

I remember when the pens came out and said, we are going to cut payroll and only pay for players we can afford. They stated it was about pure business to blow the team up and do it that way.

With my pens i see what good a cap can do. Also for teams like calgary and some other teams in these markets.

[Hogan11]

It's a small price to pay for fiscal sanity.....one thing is for sure, if this thing ever gets resolved with a salary cap included in the deal.......Donald Fehr & the MLBPA will be shaken to the very core because they know they're next.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Meeting started at 1:30 today and the League released a statement at 8:30 saying the talks were still going and could keep going late into the night.

[alkemical]

i heard by fri (this was about 1pm EST) on ESPn that they would call the season on fri

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Hradek was incredibly misleading. The unidentified owner said the season might be canceled if a deal couldn't be reached today. Of course today's meeting hadn't even started yet when that "story" broke.

[Clockwork Orange]

I remember when the pens came out and said, we are going to cut payroll and only pay for players we can afford. They stated it was about pure business to blow the team up and do it that way.

With my pens i see what good a cap can do. Also for teams like calgary and some other teams in these markets.

As an Avs fan, the idea of a salary cap doesn't bother me at all. The reason being that the Avs were never a team that built through free agency. Shrewd trades and good drafting were the keys, keeping the core of players together was what raised the payroll to the level it reached.

Other than Kariya & Selanne (who both came at a monumental discount) the Avs were generally on the sidelines over the years while teams like Dallas (Hull, Belfour, Guerin, Young, Boucher) and the NY Rangers (too many to name) were driving prices into the ridiculous range every July 1st (the contracts that the likes of Holik & Guerin were given still baffle me to this day).

I remember in Guerin's final year in Boston the Avalanche had a deal done with the Bruins to trade for him. I never caught all of the specifics, but the principles of the deal were Chris Drury for Bill Guerin. The only hang up was that the Avs wanted Guerin to sign a contract extension before the deal was done and he was intent on hitting the UFA market. The deal was dead at that point. He became a UFA on July 1st and the Avalanche didn't even look at him, it's just not their way of operating to overpay for players who want way more than they're worth.

Bring on a salary cap, I'll take my chances with Pierre Lacroix.

[alkemical]

As an Avs fan, the idea of a salary cap doesn't bother me at all. The reason being that the Avs were never a team that built through free agency. Shrewd trades and good drafting were the keys, keeping the core of players together was what raised the payroll to the level it reached.

Other than Kariya & Selanne (who both came at a monumental discount) the Avs were generally on the sidelines over the years while teams like Dallas (Hull, Belfour, Guerin, Young, Boucher) and the NY Rangers (too many to name) were driving prices into the ridiculous range every July 1st (the contracts that the likes of Holik & Guerin were given still baffle me to this day).

I remember in Guerin's final year in Boston the Avalanche had a deal done with the Bruins to trade for him. I never caught all of the specifics, but the principles of the deal were Chris Drury for Bill Guerin. The only hang up was that the Avs wanted Guerin to sign a contract extension before the deal was done and he was intent on hitting the UFA market. The deal was dead at that point. He became a UFA on July 1st and the Avalanche didn't even look at him, it's just not their way of operating to overpay for players who want way more than they're worth.

Bring on a salary cap, I'll take my chances with Pierre Lacroix.

and even with there being a salary cap, guys can still be paid. guys are still paid in the NFL.

that's why i don't really 'buy' the NHLPA's argument.

[Clockwork Orange]

and even with there being a salary cap, guys can still be paid. guys are still paid in the NFL.

that's why i don't really 'buy' the NHLPA's argument.

I agree completely.

The days of contracts paying $9-$10 million per season in the NHL are over. The sooner the players come to grips with that, the sooner we'll see NHL hockey.

[alkemical]

I agree completely.

The days of contracts paying $9-$10 million per season in the NHL are over. The sooner the players come to grips with that, the sooner we'll see NHL hockey.


hey i found this:

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05032/450937.stm

Lemieux still holding out hope for lockout resolution


But Lemieux, a first-line forward who doubles as the Penguins' owner, also is enough of a realist to understand that unless a deal is struck quickly -- probably within the next few days -- any possibility of salvaging a reasonable chunk of the 2004-05 season will vanish.

Asked yesterday when he believes a collective bargaining agreement has to be in place if part of the season is to be saved, Lemieux chuckled and said, "Last week."

He was kidding, of course, but the reality is that the calendar has become a factor that can't be ignored if the owners and players want to squeeze in a few games before the spring thaw.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

PA released a statement saying they were done for the night and will meet again tomorrow.

[alkemical]

Thanks for the updates.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Looks like today's meeting is over and Goodenow left pissed. League issued a statement saying the lines of communication were still open but they won't be saying anything else today.

[Rascal]

Bring on a salary cap, I'll take my chances with Pierre Lacroix.

Same here, that guy is a freaking stud when it comes ot getting players.

Hey Shanny...take some lessons!!