Elam wants how many millions?!?!?

[clint7]

What was it? $2 million Elam wanted a year?

Please.

[Taco John]

Exactly way too many millions...

[errand]

OK, let me get this straight...

Elam misses 2 kicks (58 and 44 ) and because of that he's unworthy of 2 million...and yet,....oh, never mind.

[adabronco02]

UMMMM......  NO WTF did he think... He missed two feild goals. One returned for a TD...LMAO.  Well we overlooked them.

[watermock]

OK, let me get this straight...

Elam misses 2 kicks (58 and 44 ) and because of that he's unworthy of 2 million...and yet,....oh, never mind.

Yes, never mind.

He shanked two field goals, one that was returned for a TD, and can't get the ball inside the ten yard line.

He could of been yelling "COVER THE KICK YOU IDIOTS" when he shanked it, but he was trotting off with his tail between his legs.

I don't know what side the kick went back thru, but my memory, remarkably thinks it was on the Bronco sideline.

Probably the worst play in Bronco history, and it sealed the game.

What were you saying about Elam Errand?

Our QB makes about 3 million. Fire away. Why not pay Elam just as much?

[Taco John]

errand?  Why be such a hypocrite?  Why is it that you complain that people make excuses for Brian, and you turn around and make excuses for every other facet of this team that goes wrong?  No matter how badly you want to make this loss all about Brian, it simply isn't.  This was a loss all over the field.  At least Brian showed that he can hang in there and put the team in a position to win this game.  Did he make some mistakes?  Yes.  Of course he did.  But he was the least of our problems out there.  

I can't tell you how refreshing it would be to see you start pointing fingers at other problem sources on this team to at least show that you are aware that there is more out there than quarterbacks.

[Adam]

Elam is worth every penny.  Believe me.  As a rival fan, the Broncos without a good kicker are much, much less formidable of an opponent.

Bad kicking will bring a good team to it's knees.

[Taco John]

Adam... He wants $2 million...

I don't think he's worth $2 million...

That's exactly $1 million for each missed FG tonight.

[Adam]

Adam... He wants $2 million...

I don't think he's worth $2 million...

That's exactly $1 million for each missed FG tonight.

So what?  What's the salary cap at now?  Kickers are so undervalued it's ridiculous.  So many games come down to a last minute clutch field goal situation.  So many drives start at midfield because a kicker didn't have the leg to kickoff deep.

2 mill...what's that, the price of 2 back-ups?  As opposed to paying .5 Mill for some "prospect" from NFL Europe that hits about 50% of his field goals?  

Show him the money.

[No1BroncoFan]

Elam seems to be losing that "money" attitude. Inside 40-yards he still is, but outside that he's really dropped off. Add in the fact that a LOT of our opponents starting field position is because Elam can't (or won't) kick it deep...

Ben

[Midnight Blue]

Bad kicking will bring a good team to its knees.

Guess we saw that tonight... we certainly saw some bad kicking anyway. :-/ >:( :-/

[Adam]

Elam seems to be losing that "money" attitude. Inside 40-yards he still is, but outside that he's really dropped off. Add in the fact that a LOT of our opponents starting field position is because Elam can't (or won't) kick it deep...

Ben

Well if that's true then I can see it.  I haven't seen enough of Elam lately to know what he generally does.  But the Elam I've seen in years past was well worth the dough.

I just put so much value on that position.  Picture the Pats last year without Vinatieri.  He was like the mini-MVP of their season.  So many clutch kicks.  Without him all of the heroics of the team would have gone for naught.  They never would have even been in the Superbowl, let alone won it.

[Blue Crush]

Yeah thats true kickers really help with close games.
Yet Vinatieri is only scheduled to make 1.4 mil for next year as opposed to Elam wanting 2 mil a year.:-/  And this injury of his is really making him look like a normal kicker!! The question is should he recieve that much money!?

[Midnight Blue]

Wasn't the offer Elam summarily rejected something like $1.8 million?
The way he kicked on national TV tonight, he'll be lucky to find any team willing to pay him even $1 million, especially if they also have to reserve a roster spot for a kickoff specialist.

[RadfordHS]

Can anyone even remember the last time he missed two in a game. This is not something that happens a lot for him. I think most of the team just played flat tonight.

Kinda like they all took drowsy medicine before the game.

[errand]

So TJ, Elam isn't allowed to have a bad night, especially when the entire team has one?

And BTW, I didn't blame Brian for this loss....despite my grinning that there aren't any "Take that" or "Brian's the man" threads being started by the homers. I wonder why there aren't any of those today?

I told you our OL wasn't better than last year's model...you laughed and yet here recently your takes have been highly critical of the OL....oh and Brian has been sacked 15 times now in 4 games....and that isn't counting the numerous times he's been hit. And Mock thinks Salaam is going to be an all-pro....it is to laugh.

So you see, TJ...I do find fault with other areas of the team....but of course just like my takes about Brian...they usually get ignored or ripped.

[errand]

Oh, and Elam missed two FG's...and you want his nuts in a sling, blaming him for not making a tackle on a missed FG return,...and yet, Brian throws THREE INT's...one that set up a Ravens TD...and the other two that thwarted Bronco TD's (red zone overthrow...and the end zone int).

Seems to me if your keeping score, it'd be Brian 21....Elam 13.

[errand]

It would be different if we lost this game by 2 points and Elam missed the game winner. But to blast him because the entire special teams unit was napping?

He's not the special teams coach...and he's not the special teams captain either...he's a freaking kicker, and while he wasn't his usually reliable self last night, I fail to see why your pinning this one on a kicker who missed two FG's in a game we got beat by 11 points? What? You think getting beat 34-29 will magically wipe clean the abortion we witnessed last night?

And don't give me that 108 yrd return crap.....that wasn't Elam's fault. The entire special teams unit sucked all last night...or have you forgotten the other KO returns  that gave the Ravens decent field position...and you haven't mentioned that Elam saved a td by stopping one long KO return.

[FADERPROOF]

this is what it comes down to, for Elam to be paid 2 million dollars like he wants, he would have to be the best K in the league. Now, would Vinateri made that 44 yarder? How about Akers? Think Longwell would've? Even Gramatica? Mare?  I'd say yes to all of those.

Comparing a K's salary to a QB's is just retarded.

[Taco John]

I told you our OL wasn't better than last year's model...you laughed and yet here recently your takes have been highly critical of the OL


I laughed?  I'd love for you to show me where.  I've been nothing but skeptical of our offensive line stretching back into last season.  Are you inventing things so that you can be the lone ranger on this one or something?

[clint7]

Agreed, DenFan38.

For $2 million a year, you should have had kicked two field goals through a playoff snow storm and the game winner at the Super Bowl within the past year. Well, Vinateri did that and he isn't asking/making that money. For $2 million a year, his kickoffs should go past the 10 yard line (so the freakin' return man isn't always running it back to at least the 35), he should make 40 yarders in pressure situations (I know he normally does, but he didn't last night...in a year that he is asking for the cash), and his 50+ attempts should come a little closer to the target than a dead duck in the air that lands well left and short in the endzone so it can be returned for a TD.

That's just my opinion if it was my $2 million to spend. I really like Elam, but I just think he's gotten a bit long in the tooth...and very short on the kickoffs to justify that salary....especially in a year coming up when Denver will be well above the salary cap.

$2 million on a kicker...I think not.

[Taco John]

I think you are off base here errand...  I don't think anybody is laying this loss entirely on the kicker...  Most people aren't nearly as polarized on issues as you are.  I think people are questioning Elam's asking price, which is legit, unless you live in the land where the only player on the team that can be questioned is the quarterback.

[clint7]

I think you are off base here errand...  I don't think anybody is laying this loss entirely on the kicker...  Most people aren't nearly as polarized on issues as you are.  I think people are questioning Elam's asking price, which is legit, unless you live in the land where the only player on the team that can be questioned is the quarterback.

Bravo! Well said! Viva el Guapo!   ;D

[Midnight Blue]

Just an observation here, but it seems to me that Jason has never fully returned to form since his back injury.

Considering that he's playing with an "attitude" this year over his unrealistic salary expectations, perhaps we should have kept Kimrin....

[Iowanian]

Try a few years with Todd Pederson, Stoyonovich, or Lynn Elliot kicking.......and then tell me that Elam isn't worth the Mon-ay.

[Midnight Blue]

You might not feel that way, Iowanian, if you constantly had opponents taking the field at the 35 or better because your kicker can't or won't kick into the end zone... personally, I rather think it's "can't" with Jason.... his 65-yarder was before the back injury....
but his performance in no way justifies a salary demand $.6 million higher than Vinatieri, who, IMO, earned his pay raise.

[Mile High Shack]

He shanked an easy 41 yard field goal.............he totally shanked a 57 yarder...granted it was a long one, but he wasn't even CLOSE.

and that kickoff in the 2nd half.....dude caught it on the 15 yard line, that helped in getting them another 3 points...that's another 3 points we could've used back.

Elam CAN NOT kick it in the endzone.....he was good for his time, but it's not like kickers aren't out there.

[FADERPROOF]

QB-takes the snaps and has a part of basically every offensive play, is blames for a loss, heralded for a win, and has guys anywhere from 225-350 pounds running at him in attempts to hit him and knock him in the dirt.

K-out there for only FG, XPT's,and kickoffs. Only a few times a year will they come out to kick a last second FG, and when they miss it is when they get blamed for a loss. They have a rule that a defender cannot touch them or it is a penalty, and people still look for other reasons other than them to blame losses on.

now, what pos. should get paid more again?

[Iowanian]

You might not feel that way, Iowanian, if you constantly had opponents taking the field at the 35 or better because your kicker can't or won't kick into the end zone... personally, I rather think it's "can't" with Jason.... his 65-yarder was before the back injury....
but his performance in no way justifies a salary demand $.6 million higher than Vinatieri, who, IMO, earned his pay raise.

BF.....
Uh.....The Chiefs kicking situation has sucked for over a decade. Morton Anderson gets ahold of a KO once per game, but his kicks are low and occasionally short, which is resulting in some crappy Defensive Field position. I know plenty about the feelign of that.

I do agree however, that 2 Mil is too friggin high for a kicker, and Vineteri is as good as Elam....and even he misses...he dinked one off a post In KC recently to lose a game.

[defenseman]

First: Elam has been kicking em short correct? For a couple of years now, correct?
Second: Elam DID NOT get showed the money, correct? He may not feel as comfortable in Denver as he used to.
Third: He may say he's fine, But, I see him with a hammy problem as we speak. He's not as affective as he has been in the past, both kickoffs and recently field goals.
Fourth: Special teams has continuously degraded over the last three weeks, correct?

Well, I see a major problem on special teams,and IF not corrected WILL cost us at least one more game. Do NOT underestimate the value of field position. As far as elam, he's gone at the end of the season...dman

In the mean time, IF he can't get it deep anymore, go get a damn kickoff specialist so he can get it deep. If they don't , we WILL lose another game due to special teams. SOLVE the PROBLEM, and move on...dman

[Midnight Blue]

BF.....
Uh.....The Chiefs kicking situation has sucked for over a decade. Morton Anderson gets ahold of a KO once per game, but his kicks are low and occasionally short, which is resulting in some crappy Defensive Field position. I know plenty about the feelign of that.

I do agree however, that 2 Mil is too friggin high for a kicker, and Vineteri is as good as Elam....and even he misses...he dinked one off a post In KC recently to lose a game.


LOL It wouldn't bother me a bit if KC signs Elam next year... as long as Dickie and Carl pay him his $2 million.... :giggle:

As I said, he's simply not the same kicker he was prior to his back injury... and he's not going to improve with age, either.

Yeah, he's great at PAT's... and usually, he's "money in the bank" on 40-yd or less FGs... but last night's performance has me re-thinking whether or not I'll miss him when he's gone... and he used to be one of my favorite Broncos... before his outrageous salary demands and subsequent inflexibility. Now, I'm seriously wondering if we wouldn't have been better off keeping Kimrin.

[MMM]

Interestingly, Elam cost us 13 points (6 in missed fgs, and 7 for the TD return).  The difference in the game was 11 points.  I can't really get too down on him though, he makes those more times than not.

[Phantom]

Elam is a very accurate kicker. His distance has been skewed statistics-wise because half of his kicks are a mile in the air. Thus he tends to struggle at FG on the road.

If Elam is gonna miss some FGs at least it was during the "everyone play crappy" game and not when it will decide the winner in OT or something.

Funny how when you near retirement you start to worry more about finances. Elam wants the bank because he knows his playing days are numbered - mounting injuries, etc.

I agree with Dman - get a specialist for KOs. Shave one of these TEs who contribute 1 catch for 8 yards and sign a KO specialist who can contribute 60 yards by having 4 touchbacks instead of four decent returns for the other team.

[Raiders Rock]

What was it? $2 million Elam wanted a year?

Please.
Don't blame him, what kind of idiot coach sends a kicker out in the humid night heavy air to kick a 58 yarder?
He can't kick like that without the thin air of Dungver

Blame that on "THE RAT"

RR

[defenseman]

RR, you have to come here with an intelligent take. Not insensible babbling, try again pal............dman

[HAT]

As much as it pains me.......I gotta agree with RR on this one.
It was a terrible call sending the FG unit out there. 58 at sea level? Even if he makes it....it's 24-6 still a 3 score game. I understand that Mike was looking to get any sort of Mo' heading into the locker room, but if your kicker is only kicking it 65 yds off of a tee with no d-line in front of him........

Better off throwing the HM. For those that don't think BG could've got it there....fine...bring in SB for one play and let Lelie go for the jump ball.

[Raiders Rock]

As much as it pains me.......I gotta agree with RR on this one.
It was a terrible call sending the FG unit out there. 58 at sea level? Even if he makes it....it's 24-6 still a 3 score game. I understand that Mike was looking to get any sort of Mo' heading into the locker room, but if your kicker is only kicking it 65 yds off of a tee with no d-line in front of him........

Better off throwing the HM. For those that don't think BG could've got it there....fine...bring in SB for one play and let Lelie go for the jump ball.

Exactly.... I am NOT doubting Elams ability as he is one of the best if not the best kicker in the game today.

But this is Fall and the air is cool and damp and heavy at night time and much different than the air in Denver, as soon as he lined up for that kick I said it would be short in your chatroom here because of that

Now I didn't know there would be a man in the endzone to catch it, but it appears Billick also knew that ball would not carry like the Broncos thought it would.


RR

[errand]

this is what it comes down to, for Elam to be paid 2 million dollars like he wants, he would have to be the best K in the league. Now, would Vinateri made that 44 yarder? How about Akers? Think Longwell would've? Even Gramatica? Mare?  I'd say yes to all of those.

Comparing a K's salary to a QB's is just retarded.

Just curious...do you think Brian deserves to be the highest paid player in Broncos history...and do you think he deserves to be one of the NFL's highest paid QB's?

[No1BroncoFan]

But to blast him because the entire special teams unit was napping?

How 'bout blasting him for not kicking a 53-yard FG THROUGH the end-zone. Piss on whether he makes it or not. If he ain't got the leg to sail a 53-yarder through the end-zone then maybe he ain't got enough leg period! He's starting to look just like Treadwell. Money from inside 40, flat-broke from 40+.

Ben

[errand]

I laughed?  I'd love for you to show me where.  I've been nothing but skeptical of our offensive line stretching back into last season.  Are you inventing things so that you can be the lone ranger on this one or something?


You didn't "literally" laugh...but you and Mock and few others blasted my belief that the OL sucked when I was posting all those "on pace to allow 64 sacks" posts.

You defended them by saying the line improved because we rediscovered our running game.

[errand]

How 'bout blasting him for not kicking a 53-yard FG THROUGH the end-zone. Piss on whether he makes it or not. If he ain't got the leg to sail a 53-yarder through the end-zone then maybe he ain't got enough leg period! He's starting to look just like Treadwell. Money from inside 40, flat-broke from 40+.

Ben

Your bitching about a kicker who misses from 53 yards out...and yet you defend a QB who can't throw 40 yards? ??? ::)

[errand]

Interestingly, Elam cost us 13 points (6 in missed fgs, and 7 for the TD return).  The difference in the game was 11 points.  I can't really get too down on him though, he makes those more times than not.

If your allowed to say Elam was responsible for a 13 point swing...then what about Brian's 3 ints...

1st one set Ravens up for a TD.

2nd one was in red zone...that's 7 we should have had.

3rd one was under thrown in the end zone.....another 7 points we should have had.

The way I see it Brian wins 21-13.

[No1BroncoFan]

Your biatching about a kicker who misses from 53 yards out...

No Errand, not for missing the field-goal but for leaving it so SHORT it can be returned. If he's so damned good, why was that 57-yard (my bad) FG attempt no more than a 47-yard punt? He kicks 70-YARD FGS IN PRACTICE and can't kick a 57-yarder out the back of the end-zone? The cross-bar is at the BACK of the end-zone and fairly high up isn't it?

and yet you defend a QB who can't throw 40 yards?

I've defended his good performance this season from your nit-picking but I've also questioned whether he's the future for this team or just a placeholder. Sorry, I'm not one of your Brian-homers that you think need to be kicked like a dog.

Get a grip on something other than your johnson there Errand.

Ben

[errand]

A kicker of Elam's ability is worth $2 million...especially when the Broncos have offered a rag armed .500 QB $39 million.

[errand]

And the ball would have gone out of the end zone if the Ravens hadn't the foresight to leave McAlister back there. So frankly, your beef is with Mike for having Elam attempt a 57 yarder vs punting...it's not like Mike forgot we weren't in Denver was it?

[watermock]

Errand, this was a thread about Elam.

It is so pathetic when you say "I only started two threads about SOB", when you take every thread into your personal obsession.

It was lousy playcalling/special teams more than anything as far as I was concerned.

If Elam felt good, and felt he could make a 58 yarder, then the coaches have to let him give it a shot. But it is the special teams coach that has to remind his players that it is a LIVE BALL, not Brian Griese.

The very late FG try was also very stupid when we had a 4th and 1. Even if we got the ball back it would of been hail marys. Bad coaching, not Elams fault at all.

I just find it astounding how Errand can turn each thread something about Griese.

How about this Errand? We just make a thread for you for yourself to piss and moan and call him an overpaid drunk that is on his way to murdering people so we can just throw him in jail yesterday, and you can go circle jerk to yourself in a mirror.

[watermock]

What a kicker is paid has absolutely NO BEARING on what a starting QB is paid.

If you would bother to look around, starting QB's average around 5 million per year, Griese is making 2.7 this year. It took 5 million just to buy out Bledsoes contract. FACT IS, New England is paying more in DEAD MONEY for Bledsoe than Denver is paying for Griese to play.  

Yet he is the "highest paid player in the league"

I tell you what, I would rather pay Griese his money than that Gap Toothed Strahan Chunky Soup idiot that isn't doing anything more than Bertrand Berry is.

[Midnight Blue]

And the ball would have gone out of the end zone if the Ravens hadn't the foresight to leave McAlister back there. So frankly, your beef is with Mike for having Elam attempt a 57 yarder vs punting...it's not like Mike forgot we weren't in Denver was it?

So the ball would have gone out of the end zone if it hadn't been caught by someone in the end zone?? Do you realize how contradictory that statement is??

Elam shanked that kick...

[watermock]

Billick was smart enough to put a return man back.

And Denver should of noticed that. Just like Poole should of noticed that he was the punt returner once Deltha got ejected. But that was Brians fault as well.

[No1BroncoFan]

So frankly, your beef is with Mike for having Elam attempt a 57 yarder vs punting...

Let me spell it out for you. The cross-bar is high enough that a player in the end-zone would have to make an incredible, leaping play just to knock it down. Limp-leg Elam kicked the ball so short that the defender simply caught it. The ball only traveled 53 yards. If he can kick 70-yarders in practice (through the up-rights with a rush no less) then why didn't that one go out the back of the end-zone? You can hang that return on Elam, even if it doesn't make you look smart.

Ben

[Hercules Rockefeller]

my favorite part of mcallister's return was watching elam limp to the sidelines so he wouldn't have to try to tackle him.  when was the last time elam went through a season w/out being injured?  i think it was before the 1st super bowl.

[Taco John]

Shanahan wouldn't have put Elam in that situation if he wasn't hitting those in practice before the game...  They have a pre-game warm-up for a reason.  Elam shanked it.  He isn't what cost us the game...  But he did shank it.

[BroncoFox]

IMO, Elam had a bad game (shorter kicks and he shoulda hit that 2nd FG), but he is still the cream of the crop as far as kickers go.  He is calm, solid and very consistant.  I would rather we get someone to do kickoffs than get rid of Elam. And I think he is worth the $$$ as well!

I think sometimes take him for granted, being a kicker and all.  I can't remember back before Elam that I EVER was so comfortable even with a 40 or 45 yarder as I am with Elam running out.  Not nervous at all.  I EXPECT he will make it.  I think we could do a whole lot worse than Elam!   ;D

[mnfan]

We needed a spark.  Our offense gave us an oppotunity for a LONG field goal.  Shanny looked at his options and decided that the better oppotunity for points was a 57 yard FG vs. a Hail Mary pass.  I was more worried about it being blocked than it falling short, as I'm sure everyone else was.  I can guaratee you won't see a run back like that from anyone for a LONG LONG time.  But I doubt that Shanny will get gun shy about sending Elam back out there.

[adabronco02]

They should of took a shot in the enzone!  It was the end of the 2nd quarter anyways it never hurts!

[mnfan]

That's just not the option that was taken on the play.  I find it more appauling that our team didn't go for the tackle and lost it's focus than the fact that we didn't go for a Hail Mary.  "We" tackle him and this arguement is mute.

[watermock]

argument. dang. I am not sure that is even right.

BTW, who was that LB that got destroyed by Lewis on that play? I imagine it was Burns or Spragan.

Has anyone see the injury report? ???

[winstoncup bronco]

So the ball would have gone out of the end zone if it hadn't been caught by someone in the end zone?? Do you realize how contradictory that statement is??

Elam shanked that kick...
Blue, we can't blame Elam for that. The guy kicked it from 57 yards out, and it went about 55, which isn't exactly chopped liver, and even if he had kicked it straight, it still would've been caught. The only way that runback doesn't happen, is if it's converted, and you can't blame a kicker for not making a 57 yards FG, IMO.

[Midnight Blue]

It was Burns... and prior to the game, he already had a cast on one hand....

[watermock]

In the old days, before they moved the goalposts back, it was common to have a return man back there.

I guess a lost art cost us Monday.  ::)

[Midnight Blue]

Blue, we can't blame Elam for that. The guy kicked it from 57 yards out, and it went about 55, which isn't exactly chopped liver, and even if he had kicked it straight, it still would've been caught. The only way that runback doesn't happen, is if it's converted, and you can't blame a kicker for not making a 57 yards FG, IMO.

'Cup, I'm on record in this thread as saying I'm not certain Elam is physically capable of kicking those long FGs anymore... not since his back injury... so I'm not blaming Jason... just giving Errand some grief for making what I viewed as a confusing, contradictory statement.

[errand]

How is it contradicting? I said the ball would have gone out (ever hear of a ball bouncing?) if there wasn't someone back there waiting to return it. ???

See, if McAlister is on the line rushing the FG attempt...or standing inside the 10 just in case it's a fake FG attempt...the ball falls helplessly to the ground...and out of the end zone.

[Midnight Blue]

OK... but you didn't say it would have bounced out of bounds, Errand. Still it doesn't change the fact that Elam shanked that kick.

[FADERPROOF]

Just curious...do you think Brian deserves to be the highest paid player in Broncos history...and do you think he deserves to be one of the NFL's highest paid QB's?


nope, and I don't think many of us here do. If we thought that, would we be saying that the should restructure at the end of this season?

[FADERPROOF]

Also, In defense of TJ, he was one of the few that wanted an OT in round 1 this year. If that is constantly bashing your beef with the OL, Errand, than I must be a tad mistaken around here.

Most of us said Ed Reed, Taco said Levi Jones or some other OT. I don't think that means he was satisfied with our OL.

[Taco John]

I still don't know what errand is talking about re: my take on the o-line.  Apparently I laughed at the idea that our o-line could potentially be a problem for us.   ::)  Like I haven't been beating the o-line drum for over a year now.

You're going to have to provide a quote errand, because I don't have clue one what you are talking about there.

[errand]

I wasn't saying he wasn't satisfied with our OL...I said he blasted my takes about the OL sucking and giving up way too many sacks.

I too, wanted a LT in the draft, BTW....afterall, $39 million contract made it painfully obvious we weren't going QB.

[Taco John]

Show me...  That doesn't sound like me at all...

I think, once again, you are making things up about me.

[alkemical]

I do know that Errand and I both shared an interest in drafting an T in the past few drafts at least.

[watermock]

I dissagree about taking a Tackle early, Levi Jones is finally getting a start next week. (cincinatti I think), and that is because of injury.

This is a playoff team and needed skill players.

I think it takes time to develop linemen. Sure, if a McKinney or Williams falls into your lap after a crap season, you are tempted to take him, as your rebuilding a team.

I am more than happy to keep looking for project linemen deeper in the draft or take players with experience going into free agency or coming off injury (we did both), and use our higher picks for the true athletes at skill/defensive impact positions.

[Midnight Blue]

Let me spell it out for you. The cross-bar is high enough that a player in the end-zone would have to make an incredible, leaping play just to knock it down. Limp-leg Elam kicked the ball so short that the defender simply caught it. The ball only traveled 53 yards. If he can kick 70-yarders in practice (through the up-rights with a rush no less) then why didn't that one go out the back of the end-zone? You can hang that return on Elam, even if it doesn't make you look smart.

Ben

According to this article, from the Denver Post, Jason agrees with you that he was to blame for the 2 missed FG's.

http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36%257E86%257E896620%257E,00.html

[watermock]

When the Broncos return to work today, they are expecting to feel and hear the wrath of Shanahan and special-teams coach Frank Bush.

Yet Bowlen did not expect drastic consequences.

"I would be very surprised if anybody lost their job because of that game," Bowlen said. "Those kinds of things happen in football. They happen to good teams, they happen to bad teams. You just have nights like that.

"I think we lost our cool, we lost our composure, our special teams played very poorly and we lost a football game. But I don't think that all of a sudden signals that we've got a bad football team or a mediocre team. I think it was a wake-up call."



The BushMeister better not have another performance even close, I would of fired him.

[errand]

I still don't know what errand is talking about re: my take on the o-line.  Apparently I laughed at the idea that our o-line could potentially be a problem for us.   ::)  Like I haven't been beating the o-line drum for over a year now.

You're going to have to provide a quote errand, because I don't have clue one what you are talking about there.

I know you've been complaining about the OL prior to this season TJ...which is why I'm confused you'd have a dissenting opiniuon when I blasted the OL's surrendering too many sacks this year. But in one thread, you took a dissenting view during a debate where the argument was whether or not the OL was why Brian was getting his ass knocked around.

"Griese Sprains Ankle" thread.....

Myself and SJBronco were arguing the "64 sack pace" and SJ was putting the blame for the increased sack totals on Brian holding onto the ball more THIS YEAR, and he said the OL sucked LAST YEAR.....I then posted in reply #60-

"Oh, I'm sorry.....

"It was the OL fault LAST year....but not this year...."

"Brian is holding onto the ball forever THIS year....but he never did it LAST year....."

"I wish you'd make up your mind...."

YOU then asked me if I had even watched the games this year....and obvious reference to my eyes not being as keen as yours....and this was also a reply to defend SJBronco....which if you agreed with him, and not me...then YOU were also saying that the reason Brian's been sacked more in '02 was due to his holding onto the ball...not the porous OL we have.....

You then said that you thought I just liked to argue (I do...) and said I have no "i" or "c" in logic...leaving me as a .....(I'm assuming you were trying to insult me by calling me a "log" because of my take about the OL )

BTW...Broncos on pace to give up 60 sacks.......which would be a franchise record.

[Mile High Shack]

errand your "act" is getting quite old and tiresome.........how is it that you can give everyone else some slack but not Brian?  Every game that we lose is Brian's fault, or Brian had a part in it.

I know you'll come back and say how come you Griese Homers can't blame Griese for anything.......

I come back with, well I did for one, that one INT that he threw straight to Ed Reed was a TERRIBLE pass and he should've thrown the ball away a couple of times instead of taking a sack.

see it was a total TEAM loss, Brian didn't play D or special teams.

[errand]

If my "act" as you call it is tiresome and old in your opinion...then do yourself a favor and use the handy-dandy "ignore" feature......

BTW...you don't think Brian tossing 3 lame INT's wasn't a part of why we lost the game?

Surely if he doesn't get picked by Ray....that's a possible 7 points off the Ravens score...and surely if he isn't picked by Ed Reed we possibly score a TD...and if he wasn't intercepted in the end zone...that's another 7 possible td.

Do you disagree that the aforementioned take isn't true to an extent?

[errand]

BTW...how long has Elam gone between horrible games? A week, 2...perhaps a year or more? That's why he gets cut some slack by me....not to mention he's underpaid as one of the league's best kickers, despite his two misses in a hostile arena.

Meanwhile since week 3 of '01 season ( a span of 16 games) Brian has thrown 24 ints.....and that's why he gets NO SLACK cut by me....not to mention he's OVERPAID as a mediocre QB.

[Mile High Shack]

I think the one bad INT was very bad.....the throw to Ed Reed.

the other 2 should probably not of been thrown but M.A. was chucked by Ray Lewis and the other one, if Rod had been there instead of Lelie, it might of been 7 points b/c Rod would've fought for the ball, Lelie is a rookie and that was a rookie mistake.

why do I even bother, I'm sure there is some spin you'll come up with to show all us idiots how your right about Brian and we are wrong. ???

[Mile High Shack]

BTW...how long has Elam gone between horrible games? A week, 2...perhaps a year or more? That's why he gets cut some slack by me....not to mention he's underpaid as one of the league's best kickers, despite his two misses in a hostile arena.

Meanwhile since week 3 of '01 season ( a span of 16 games) Brian has thrown 24 ints.....and that's why he gets NO SLACK cut by me....not to mention he's OVERPAID as a mediocre QB.

to be honest, Elam has looked like crap for 4 games now.

[FADERPROOF]

He's underpaid as a K making 1.45 mill this year?

[errand]

He's underpaid as a K making 1.45 mill this year?

I find it hilarious that you think he's overpaid...especially when upon hearing his signing the $1.4 million contract you said...and I quote..."Good News!"

BTW...TJ, Mock, and NDGal also chimed in the following quotes upon hearing of Jason's signing....

"Good Deal"-TJ
"Your the MAN, Jason"- NDGal
"Mr. Automatic"- Watermock.

Odd, but just a few months ago you guys were all over Jason's jock as being so great...and now he's a chump? ::)

[Mile High Shack]

I don't think he is being very professional right now, I think he is either sulking b/c he didn't get a good deal OR

he is hurt but trying to play through it so he gets a big contract by another team, if he misses some games that could cost him some jack.

this loss wasn't on Elam, just like it wasn't on Brian......everyone had a part in that fiasco.

[Phantom]

It is interesting that Bileck actually had a return man on the FG attempt. You would think that the odds would favor an all out attempt to block the kick. Since the FG was the last play of the half, why would you even care about the return. Either Bileck can foresee the future or that fluke play makes him look like a genius.

Also, how about that holding penalty on the D on a FG attempt. When does the D hold someone on a FG attempt? That is too funny. The replay did show the penalty, but come on - Defensive holding on a FG attempt -  :o  :o

[jonny1]

Just for my own compulsion for accuracy, you can't call Elam's FG attempt a shank, shank is a golf term for hitting off of the hosel (or shank) and the ball always goes directly and weakly to the right.  Elam 'over-hooked' it by trying to hit it harder and lower to get the distance.

[FADERPROOF]

I find it hilarious that you think he's overpaid...especially when upon hearing his signing the $1.4 million contract you said...and I quote..."Good News!"

BTW...TJ, Mock, and NDGal also chimed in the following quotes upon hearing of Jason's signing....

"Good Deal"-TJ
"Your the MAN, Jason"- NDGal
"Mr. Automatic"- Watermock.

Odd, but just a few months ago you guys were all over Jason's jock as being so great...and now he's a chump? ::)


2 mill is being overpaid, and the way he is currently playing, 1.45 is overpaying him. (I'll help you out, 39 million for the way Brian Griese is playing is over paying him). Unless he steps up, why should we pay him that much?

"Good news", who wouldnt be happy that we signed our K back, especially when we don't have anyone out there, and that he was/is a very good K. I'm sure you didnt have so many negative things to say about Griese back in 2001, but our opinions cant change, only yours.

isn't football a "what have you done for me lately" league? Because Elam was coming off a career year last year and we signed him back, making all of us happy, means that we can't change our minds when he is constantly kicking the ball to the 10 on KO's, and shanking 2 FG's?

[watermock]

errand your "act" is getting quite old and tiresome.........how is it that you can give everyone else some slack but not Brian?  Every game that we lose is Brian's fault, or Brian had a part in it.


His whole act has constantly been to try to paint people into a corner. You simply pound and pound away with over the top junk...ala...he's a murderer waiting to happen...wait till he wraps his SUV around a tree...DUI is a Feloney and other garbage.

What happens is when people come to Griese's defense, he's painting you into a corner, and calls you a homer. Then if anything bad DOES happen, and everyone KNOWS bad things happen, he calls you a hypocrite, madly searching archives so he can take a prior comment out of context.

He wants it so that noone can critique Griese but himself...it's "HIS" Holy Ground, he was the genius that found out the the universe revolves around Brian Griese.

Like I have said before, Errand should predict earthquakes in California, your bound to be right eventually.

[adabronco02]

REMEMBER he was is tied for the nfl record in a kick!  Lets not abandon him quite yet.  You know hes gonna be practicing after that performance!

[watermock]

Noone is abandoning him. He was given a good contract offer and refused. The ball is in his court, and he's kicking himself our of elite status with these misses and short kickoffs.

His value certainly didn't go up on Monday in front of a national audience.

[Midnight Blue]

Not only that, but to illustrate how outrageously high his reported $2 million salary demand is... according to nflpa.org, there is only one kicker in the league who makes more money this year than Elam... Olindo Mare at $1.5 million. I doubt that anyone outside of his agent thinks Elam should be earning 33% more than the next-highest-paid kicker in the league...

[BritBronco Maniac]

Apparently the Ravens had practised that move
thats what Billick claims anyway
Its not like it hasn't happened before, Aaron Glenn did it 4 years ago, ever since then any games I have played in people ahve been aware of it, so should the pro's

[errand]

2 mill is being overpaid, and the way he is currently playing, 1.45 is overpaying him. (I'll help you out, 39 million for the way Brian Griese is playing is over paying him). Unless he steps up, why should we pay him that much?

"Good news", who wouldnt be happy that we signed our K back, especially when we don't have anyone out there, and that he was/is a very good K. I'm sure you didnt have so many negative things to say about Griese back in 2001, but our opinions cant change, only yours.

isn't football a "what have you done for me lately" league? Because Elam was coming off a career year last year and we signed him back, making all of us happy, means that we can't change our minds when he is constantly kicking the ball to the 10 on KO's, and shanking 2 FG's?





I have to ask...if your changing your mind about Jason's ability for missing two FG's...then why haven't you changed your mind about a QB who's tossed 24 ints over his last 16 starts leading us to a 8-8 record in those 16 games? ::)

[errand]

Like I have said before, Errand should predict earthquakes in California, your bound to be right eventually.



Well, I DID predict that you'd be the biggest jerk on this board....so maybe I can predict earthquakes.

[FADERPROOF]

I have to ask...if your changing your mind about Jason's ability for missing two FG's...then why haven't you changed your mind about a QB who's tossed 24 ints over his last 16 starts leading us to a 8-8 record in those 16 games? ::)

nice reach, I'm oretty sure all of us have changed their minds about him from the 2001 season, we just havent' kicked him to the curb like you have.

The majority says that this is his last year to prove himself, and that he needs ro restructure his deal at the end of year regardless. As I have not written Elam off yet, I'm just simply stating that the way he is playing, 1.45 mill ain't worth it, especially when he wants 2 mill after this year. Elam needs to show me this year that he is worth what we are paying him, currently, he hasn't.

[FADERPROOF]

REMEMBER he was is tied for the nfl record in a kick!  Lets not abandon him quite yet.  You know hes gonna be practicing after that performance!

We also have a K from Sweden that would take a much smaller contract that kicked a 65 yard FG for us.

[watermock]

I read a comment over at www.cyberhigh.net that I thought was interesting and could yank out some comments.

Did Elam's cockiness about his long ago 63 yard field goal, and the fact that Kirin made a 65 yarder, contribute to his telling Shanahan that his 58 yarder was "money in the bank" in a high humidity, sea level environment after a hamstring injury?

Let's not forget how Elam injured his hammy the first time, attempting 70 yard kicks during warmups, jeapardizing the team. Fact is, that was the main reason Shanahan went for it on 4th down and won that game. (I don't remember which one, but Shanahan is 1-1 in big time 4th and 1 calls this year)

Anyway, was Elam playing kingcock again on Monday, trying to impress other teams that he could still hit the 55+ field goal?

If he did, he failed miserably, and the 44 yarder, which should of been routine, was equally weak, as was his kickoffs, which landed around the 12 yardline routinely.

I don't think Elam's hamstring is right, he can live with his arrogance.

Someone has to collar the little ****, and tell him to stop showing off like some mullethead on an Amature Wrestling Video.

And if Ruin is his little butt buddy, and can't handle snaps from center if it isn't Lepsis, they can take their shank act to Atlanta where its nice and warm and play on the carpet like the babies they are.

Give me someone like Edinger or Vinateri at this point.

Time to kick at sea level you two. Bye Bye.

[errand]

Oh, so what your saying is that Elam would lie to Mike and play with an injury that only he knows truly exists...but nobody else on our team would do anything like that?

[Sassy]

I don't think Elam's hamstring is right, he can live with his arrogance

I wondered the same thing...they showed him holding it after one of the kicks...

I'll have to go back and see exactly when that was.

[watermock]

The world according to Errand.

Every thread has to be contested.

You have been crying for a shoulder injury for a year Errand. Griese had a shoulder sprain after the Baltimore game one year ago.

[winstoncup bronco]

I agree that Elam has gotten a little too big for his britches, but you can't jump all over a guy for not making a 55 yarder. The play was at the end of the half, same as his record-tying 63 yarder; it's just unfortunate that some bad special teams coaching and execution turned it into a merry go round for us.

He hasn't exactly been a Pro Bowler for us so far this year, and the kickoffs haven't been so hot either, so he's hurting himself more than us. Hey, I repsect the guy, he's done a lot for us, but he's wrong if he thinks he's an indispensable player.

[watermock]

My point is, and was, that he was showing off trying to hit 70 yard kicks at warm up when he tore his hammy.

WTF was that.

Why do you think we signed another kicker?

To hurt his feelings?  Anytime you tear a muscle, you create scar tissue, it's a fact of life. No biggie to a Linebacker, but to someone who is supposed to be limber, it's a big deal.

Good Grief, at least we are not raider fans and wondering when Jano will be arrested with his penis in his hand outside the red light district.

Gotta Love those two. DRuss busted speeding back to a hoehouse, and WTF is SeaBass doing speeding to nowhere?

And what I want to know is how SeaBass managed TWO DUI's. in one day.

I think they may of let him go and he got right back into his car. LMAO.

I read he had 2 counts. That takes talent.

[Midnight Blue]

Earlier this year, I read an article that said Jano has received seven traffic citations in the state of Florida... some people simply aren't safe drivers, and it would appear that Jano is probably one of those individuals.

[FADERPROOF]

another impressive game for Elam, huh? He kicked one off to the 1 actually, don't know where that came from.

[Fear The Priest]

**** YOU, **** YOUR MOTHER, **** YOUR FATHER, AND **** YOUR ENTIRE FAMILY!!!

[Garcia Bronco]

63 yarder....

[theodnixon]

Why would we need somebody to kick field goals? Someone on the team can kick extra points right?

Regards,

Andy Reid