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View Full Version : JOSEPH HOPES MORE ZONE, LESS MAN HELPS DENVER D IN LONG RUN


Spirited_Cheer
10-09-2017, 06:31 AM
http://www.9news.com/mobile/article/sports/joseph-hopes-more-zone-less-man-helps-denver-d-in-long-run/73-481831753

UberBroncoMan
10-09-2017, 06:36 AM
Mike Klis reads this forum for his news.

Spirited_Cheer
10-09-2017, 06:44 AM
Stupid

strafen
10-09-2017, 07:23 AM
If it ain't broke...
Just saying...
Now, the problem I see with zone coverage versus man to man is that our guys don't have that closing and recovering speed in the secondary out in open space, and while the safeties are there to help, we still have Simmons out there learning the ropes

MamaMia
10-09-2017, 10:41 AM
If it ain't broke...
Just saying...
Now, the problem I see with zone coverage versus man to man is that our guys don't have that closing and recovering speed in the secondary out in open space, and while the safeties are there to help, we still have Simmons out there learning the ropes

Except the defense was broken. We could not stop the run to save our season. Now we are stopping the run better than anyone in football and our pass d is still above average. With the talent we have, that will only improve and i expect us to be top 5 in both by the end of the season.

kappys
10-09-2017, 10:44 AM
Except the defense was broken. We could not stop the run to save our season. Now we are stopping the run better than anyone in football and our pass d is still above average. With the talent we have, that will only improve and i expect us to be top 5 in both by the end of the season.

Yup most of the passing yards have come off broken coverages too - a lot of that is communication and getting used to the zone look. Common problem early in the season and it should get better.

I do think we need to blitz more though esp on 3rd and long

BroncosfanGuy
10-09-2017, 10:47 AM
Stupid

this d needs to play both proficiently. kc exploited the man schemes last year in their comeback in Denver

Drunken.Broncoholic2
10-09-2017, 10:56 AM
I think schemes should be personnel influenced. If the secondary has players that excel at a scheme, play that scheme. Are Broncos CBS better in Zone or man? Both?

We saw CBs like Nmandi asomougha and DRC change schemes and they suffered for it.



The D should mix schemes up, but going hard one way or the other needs to be influenced by the players. Wade thought they were better in man?

Kaylore
10-09-2017, 11:22 AM
There will be teams where man will give us an advantage especially if their strength is their receivers. Against teams that have pass receiving threats at tight end and running back, we don't have the personnel to play man and win. We should be exploring it as an option and an occasional wrinkle just make sure we're keeping the offenses guessing. We were able to disguise some of our zone as man in previous games and that's helped us to this point. It's all about playing your best with the personnel you have.

Also, when Shane Ray is back with Miller, and Shaq, the likelihood of getting turnovers is much greater in zone than in man in situations where you're forcing throws.

Garcia Bronco
10-09-2017, 11:35 AM
Half-Zone and Half-man coverage. I love how people feel like it has to be one or the other. We play both kinds...country and western.

Ragnar
10-09-2017, 11:37 AM
I've been one of the best in the nation at a couple of things.

Sitting on your lead, and not making small tweaks, or even fundamental changes to places that you see issues with, in your own system, and in a game that you are absolutely dominating is a quick way to fall back into, and behind the pack.

This is a Bellichickian mentality that we need. Tweak and Fix away Joseph, continue to earn that credit of being a Defensive Guru, just be willing to admit your mistakes when you make them, and roll back stuff that isn't working the way you intended.

peacepipe
10-09-2017, 12:18 PM
When did V. Joseph become a defensive guru?

ludo21
10-09-2017, 12:20 PM
Whatever the D is doing, keep doing it. Just stay consistent. Teams running side to side sure as hell is easier to cover in a zone, and guess what teams do that all the time?

(pats, chiefs)

Requiem
10-09-2017, 12:40 PM
SoCal already addressed this in the thread on the second page of the forum. Just go back and read that and it'll clear up any nonsense that has made people complain about what Coach Joseph has said.

TonyR
10-09-2017, 01:09 PM
Interesting that the NFZ didn't make the cut...

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">These teams give up the fewest yards per play in Nickel - the most popular defensive sub package in the NFL.<a href="https://twitter.com/NFLFilms?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@NFLFilms</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/HereWeGo?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#HereWeGo</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Texans?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Texans</a> <a href="https://t.co/IGHmIVO1ag">pic.twitter.com/IGHmIVO1ag</a></p>&mdash; NFL Matchup on ESPN (@NFLMatchup) <a href="https://twitter.com/NFLMatchup/status/917397690278871040?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 9, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Kaylore
10-09-2017, 01:39 PM
Interesting that the NFZ didn't make the cut...

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">These teams give up the fewest yards per play in Nickel - the most popular defensive sub package in the NFL.<a href="https://twitter.com/NFLFilms?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@NFLFilms</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/HereWeGo?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#HereWeGo</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Texans?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Texans</a> <a href="https://t.co/IGHmIVO1ag">pic.twitter.com/IGHmIVO1ag</a></p>&mdash; NFL Matchup on ESPN (@NFLMatchup) <a href="https://twitter.com/NFLMatchup/status/917397690278871040?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 9, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

In terms of total pass defense, those teams are ranked thusly:

Steelers - 1st
Texans - 18th
Cardinals - 23rd
Jaguars - 5th
Bengals - 2nd
Seahawks - 13th
Panthers - 10th
Redskin Potatoes - 6th
Ravens - 14th
Rams - 15th
Colts - 31st Hilarious!

So this stat is functionally meaningless. You have literally the best and worst pass defenses, and a sprinkling of middle tier ones, all included.

Teams that didn't make this list but are in the top ten for total pass defense are the Broncos (3rd), Bears (4th), Falcons (7th), Dolphins (8th), and the Chargers (9th).

If you want to look at just scoring passing offense. They are ranked as follows:

1. Bills
2. (Tie) Jags
2. (Tie) Steelers
4. Seahawks
5. (Tie) Bengals
5. (Tie) Dolphins
5. (Tie) Falcons
5. (Tie) Redskin Potatoes
5. (Tie) Vikings
10 (Tie) Raiders
10 (Tie) Saints


We're actually all the way down at 20th for scoring passing offense.

"But how can that be?!? We're tied for second in scoring defense!"

We're first in rushing scoring defense - having allowed zero rushing TD's. So the eight passing TD's and some field goals are all anyone's done.

I agree with the article that those scoring plays are on account of the defense adjusting to learning zone.

strafen
10-09-2017, 01:41 PM
I think it should be planned or implemented on a game by game basis
It depends on the quarterback and receivers.

Kaylore
10-09-2017, 01:49 PM
I think it should be planned or implemented on a game by game basis
It depends on the quarterback and receivers.

It always is. But people read articles like this and think we're railroading or only doing one thing. It always comes back to matchups and exploiting them. That's what a gameplan is. They'll do what they think will work best.

The.Underdog
10-09-2017, 01:53 PM
Ever since the Atlanta game we have been susceptible to getting beat by backs/T&E. Maybe this is a way to prevent that?

Requiem
10-09-2017, 02:05 PM
It always is. But people read articles like this and think we're railroading or only doing one thing. It always comes back to matchups and exploiting them. That's what a gameplan is. They'll do what they think will work best.

Thanks for letting strafen know what's obvious to most of us. God bless you bro.

TonyR
10-09-2017, 04:00 PM
Lists don't like us today.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">These are the most efficient defenses in the league at getting sacks!<a href="https://twitter.com/NFLFilms?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@NFLFilms</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/ESPNNFL?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@ESPNNFL</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Chargers?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Chargers</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/Jaguars?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@Jaguars</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Bucs?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Bucs</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Jets?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Jets</a> <a href="https://t.co/kgb8wg8WsD">pic.twitter.com/kgb8wg8WsD</a></p>&mdash; NFL Matchup on ESPN (@NFLMatchup) <a href="https://twitter.com/NFLMatchup/status/917488414357942272?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 9, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Drunken.Broncoholic2
10-09-2017, 04:01 PM
Jags defense is for real.

broncosteven
10-09-2017, 07:17 PM
There will be teams where man will give us an advantage especially if their strength is their receivers. Against teams that have pass receiving threats at tight end and running back, we don't have the personnel to play man and win. We should be exploring it as an option and an occasional wrinkle just make sure we're keeping the offenses guessing. We were able to disguise some of our zone as man in previous games and that's helped us to this point. It's all about playing your best with the personnel you have.

Also, when Shane Ray is back with Miller, and Shaq, the likelihood of getting turnovers is much greater in zone than in man in situations where you're forcing throws.

This.

I loved what Wade did here but the reason teams were able to break off big plays at times was because they knew what we were playing, back then our talent was so good they could recover and limit those big plays.

Why make it easy for teams to prepare, why not show zone a couple times a week to keep teams guessing?

Can't wait for Miller and Butt to come back. Will only make us stronger.

ZONA
10-09-2017, 11:41 PM
There's advantages to both man and zone. If you were in man all the time, QB's would just constantly throw back shoulder routes and more susceptible to QB scrambles. If you constantly play a zone, they will just run sit down curls and slants all day long.

I've seen us in both man and zone so far so I think it's working fine. The pass rush defense has improved 10 fold and the pass defense is still good. The pass defense stats are a little bloated because teams can't run on us AT ALL and have to pass more, and our young safeties need a little seasoning, as well our ILB's don't cover particularly well, and yet another the coaching has many of the same plays I'm sure but there's some new stuff that takes some getting used to.

We're #1 ranked defense so far so I'll take that. Now we just need a little more consistency in the offensive passing game.

TonyR
10-12-2017, 01:18 PM
The Broncos' defense surrendered nine scores on opening drives last season, including seven TDS, but it has given up no points on such drives in 2017.

http://www.espn.com/blog/denver-broncos/post/_/id/28584/so-far-broncos-defense-has-made-quality-first-impression

Kaylore
10-12-2017, 02:00 PM
The Broncos' defense surrendered nine scores on opening drives last season, including seven TDS, but it has given up no points on such drives in 2017.

http://www.espn.com/blog/denver-broncos/post/_/id/28584/so-far-broncos-defense-has-made-quality-first-impression

This is a nice statistic. And it matches against our very good scoring defense, so it may have relevance. I would like to see a comparative analysis of how all teams that are good at shutting down the initial drive fare as a scoring defense overall.

CEH
10-12-2017, 02:23 PM
The Broncos' defense surrendered nine scores on opening drives last season, including seven TDS, but it has given up no points on such drives in 2017.

http://www.espn.com/blog/denver-broncos/post/_/id/28584/so-far-broncos-defense-has-made-quality-first-impression

27-0 in the first, 33-7 in the 3rd. 2nd and 4th we give up more than we scored

TonyR
10-14-2017, 10:20 AM
Notice who's missing?

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The highest graded edge defenders through 5 weeks <a href="https://t.co/WeO0FVhPej">pic.twitter.com/WeO0FVhPej</a></p>&mdash; Pro Football Focus (@PFF) <a href="https://twitter.com/PFF/status/919023962419617792?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 14, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

wolf754life
10-14-2017, 10:23 AM
take the giants +12

easiest money ever.

LeftCoastBronco
10-14-2017, 10:25 AM
None to worry it isn't playoffs or Superbowl YET....

LeftCoastBronco
10-14-2017, 10:26 AM
take the giants +12

easiest money ever.

famous final last words... LOL

LeftCoastBronco
10-14-2017, 10:34 AM
Soft Zone FTW!!!

bendog
10-14-2017, 11:04 AM
Without Ware and Ray the lack of edge rush is not good for man, and zone both lets the defense more able disguise itself to try and make the qb a little slower in selecting a target, and also long term put in some zone blitz. But getting Ray back may help both Von and the dbs.

Drunken.Broncoholic2
11-12-2017, 07:09 PM
How’s that zone working out? Brady just eating. Just like Wentz. Just like every other QB so far.

LeftCoastBronco
11-12-2017, 07:47 PM
I've been one of the best in the nation at a couple of things.

Sitting on your lead, and not making small tweaks, or even fundamental changes to places that you see issues with, in your own system, and in a game that you are absolutely dominating is a quick way to fall back into, and behind the pack.

This is a Bellichickian mentality that we need. Tweak and Fix away Joseph, continue to earn that credit of being a Defensive Guru, just be willing to admit your mistakes when you make them, and roll back stuff that isn't working the way you intended.

Hilarious!

Action
11-12-2017, 07:59 PM
This is dumb. We’re getting torched playing man.

Teams are lining up RB or TE our wise and throwing that direction.

bronco militia
11-12-2017, 08:00 PM
they are playing a lot of man to man tonight. the problem is our safties and lb's can't cover anyone man to man.

Drunken.Broncoholic2
11-12-2017, 08:06 PM
This is dumb. We’re getting torched playing man.

Teams are lining up RB or TE our wise and throwing that direction.




Hurts when you line up Marshall on Amendola. Wtf?

bronco militia
11-12-2017, 08:07 PM
Hurts when you line up Marshall on Amendola. Wtf?

this entire coaching staff is retarded. week after week it's easy to beat the broncos

elsid13
11-12-2017, 08:10 PM
Wade would bringing the heat to help. But the current staff is laying back.

hades
11-12-2017, 08:11 PM
This approach apparently works well in practice.

Oh wait, it's against our offense.

DENVERDUI55
11-12-2017, 08:35 PM
This defense is overrated anyways. When every one torches you with backs and TE while you can't do anything about it.

Action
11-12-2017, 08:48 PM
Hurts when you line up Marshall on Amendola. Wtf?

That was Zone.

Drunken.Broncoholic2
11-12-2017, 09:03 PM
That was Zone.



Which one? Ha!

First Amendola TD Marshall was playing man on him.

As I type this another LB on Amendola TD.

Coldcity76
11-12-2017, 09:12 PM
Well there goes brock's good game.

go_broncos
11-12-2017, 09:14 PM
Not sure what the **** did he do during bye week..we keep losing..

Drunken.Broncoholic2
11-12-2017, 09:51 PM
The joe woods/VJ sugar they were talking about

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Opponents drives the last two games against the <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Broncos?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Broncos</a>, in order:<br><br>TD<br>FG<br>TD<br>Punt<br>TD<br>TD<br>Half<br>TD<br>Punt<br>TD<br>Fumble<br>TD<br>Downs<br><br>Punt<br>TD<br>TD<br>FG<br>TD<br>TD<br>TD</p>&mdash; Ryan Greene 📷 (@RGMileHigh) <a href="https://twitter.com/RGMileHigh/status/929925151390650368?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 13, 2017</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>