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jacob2125
09-24-2017, 03:58 PM
What was up with that bomb in the first half to Sanders that was overturned? I don't believe this call lost us the game by any means but I'm so damn fed up with what the hell is a catch and what isn't anymore. I thought that after the Dez Bryant catch/not a catch last season that this was a point of emphasis this year that if you got two feet down then it was a catch regardless of what happens after that. Sanders took like 5 steps and then went down and the ball bobbled around a little bit and I don't believe there was even a camera angle showing it hit the ground unless I'm mistaken. That call left me fuming for awhile.

In an era where passing the ball is the dominate form of offense you would think that we would all know what a catch is and not just leave it up to the whims of the refs or some jack off in NY.

OleNumber7
09-24-2017, 04:00 PM
The steps were him falling down, not working towards the endzone. And accordding to rules a player must maintain possession all the way to the ground.

Sanders did not.

Should have been a catch if ole noodle arm could actually throw the ball with any power.

Broncoandrew
09-24-2017, 04:01 PM
What was up with that bomb in the first half to Sanders that was overturned? I don't believe this call lost us the game by any means but I'm so damn fed up with what the hell is a catch and what isn't anymore. I thought that after the Dez Bryant catch/not a catch last season that this was a point of emphasis this year that if you got two feet down then it was a catch regardless of what happens after that. Sanders took like 5 steps and then went down and the ball bobbled around a little bit and I don't believe there was even a camera angle showing it hit the ground unless I'm mistaken. That call left me fuming for awhile.

In an era where passing the ball is the dominate form of offense you would think that we would all know what a catch is and not just leave it up to the whims of the refs or some J-O in NY.

It just needs to be "feet down with ball = catch. And stop with all the stupid TD catch rules while your at it.

Garcia Bronco
09-24-2017, 04:02 PM
he took four steps with possession of the ball. maybe they called it by the rules I don't really give a s***. the NFL needs to fix that crap because according to the way the rules written he could take a million steps falling to the ground and it wouldn't be called a completion.

DrOrangeLove
09-24-2017, 04:06 PM
The steps were him falling down, not working towards the endzone. And accordding to rules a player must maintain possession all the way to the ground.

Sanders did not.

Should have been a catch if ole noodle arm could actually throw the ball with any power.

you're vying for the highly coveted spot of worst poster on the mane. :thumbs:

Albino Rhino
09-24-2017, 04:07 PM
IMHO, should have been a catch, fumble, recovery. Current "maintaining control of the ball to the ground" rule is dumb if you factor in the rule "the ground can't cause a fumble"...think about that. Sanders had possession and the DB hit he ball enough as he was going down, to make it look as if he bobbled it. Anyone have a video they can post of the play? Need to go back to catch and two feet down. That is a simply rule to review and implement.

M-G
09-24-2017, 04:09 PM
It was bull**** call. It was called a catch on the field. No way you can definitively tell from the replays that he didn't get his arm under it. Complete bull****.

BroncosfanGuy
09-24-2017, 04:10 PM
it was a catch.

cooks made a similar catch against houston to win the game...except he didn't secure the ball and take 3 steps before the ball hit the ground. his was a td and sanders' somehow wasn't.

nfl officiating isn't good

LetsGoBroncos
09-24-2017, 04:10 PM
What was up with that bomb in the first half to Sanders that was overturned? I don't believe this call lost us the game by any means but I'm so damn fed up with what the hell is a catch and what isn't anymore. I thought that after the Dez Bryant catch/not a catch last season that this was a point of emphasis this year that if you got two feet down then it was a catch regardless of what happens after that. Sanders took like 5 steps and then went down and the ball bobbled around a little bit and I don't believe there was even a camera angle showing it hit the ground unless I'm mistaken. That call left me fuming for awhile.

In an era where passing the ball is the dominate form of offense you would think that we would all know what a catch is and not just leave it up to the whims of the refs or some J-O in NY.

If he had caught it right in his hands in the first place there is no issue.

Bronco Yoda
09-24-2017, 04:11 PM
The steps were him falling down, not working towards the endzone. And accordding to rules a player must maintain possession all the way to the ground.

Sanders did not.

Should have been a catch if ole noodle arm could actually throw the ball with any power.

That's not what my eyeballs registered. I saw him catch the ball then turn around and take two steps with a football move then take three more steps before hitting the ground.

At this point, I'm not sure what a catch is anymore.

Enter The Dragon
09-24-2017, 04:14 PM
I thought it was a catch, then fumble and recovery. Bert Emmanuel started this ****.

Drunken.Broncoholic2
09-24-2017, 04:14 PM
it was a catch.

cooks made a similar catch against houston to win the game...except he didn't secure the ball and take 3 steps before the ball hit the ground. his was a td and sanders' somehow wasn't.

nfl officiating isn't good




According to the rule it's the correct call. Sanders isn't falling to the ground because he's being tackled. He's falling cause he's got no balance while catching it. Those steps aren't running to the endzone they are a reaction while catching the ball. So that means he needs to hold onto it the entire time. Defender punched it out during this process. Had he not been falling to the ground on his own, he's running to the endzone and would've been a fumble.



If there's no defender anywhere near him, does he still fall to the ground or is he running to endzone? That answer kicks the rule in.

M-G
09-24-2017, 04:16 PM
According to the rule it's the correct call. Sanders isn't falling to the ground because he's being tackled. He's falling cause he's got no balance while catching it. Those steps aren't running to the endzone they are a reaction while catching the ball. So that means he needs to hold onto it the entire time. Defender punched it out during this process. Had he not been falling to the ground on his own, he's running to the endzone and would've been a fumble.

So you definitively saw the ball touch the ground? You must have better eyes than me.

Drunken.Broncoholic2
09-24-2017, 04:16 PM
So you definitively saw the ball touch the ground? You must have better eyes than me.

No doubt the ball hit the ground when he punched it out. See it on the replay from the side.

HAT
09-24-2017, 04:16 PM
If he catches it clean, takes the same steps, and dribbled it on the ground the same way......It would've been ruled a catch and fumble.

The problem was that he bobbled it first, then seemed to control it with the steps, then did not maintain all the way.

Open to zebra interpretation at that point.

10 should've caught it but 13 should've had 6 there that close to the LOS.

As much as Trev has progressed in all other aspects, he will never have a game changing arm.

Is what it is.

SVine
09-24-2017, 04:17 PM
The biggest problem I had with it, there was NO CONCLUSIVE ANGLE that showed the ball actually hit the ground. NONE.

Jason in LA
09-24-2017, 04:17 PM
Unfortunately it was the right call. It's a bad rule. And it makes no sense. Seeing that the league has changed the game to favor passing and they want more scoring, you'd think that they would get this right so many of these catches would actually be catches.

He took four steps. But those four steps were off balance as he was stumbling to the ground. What that has to do with anything is beyond me. Steps while running with balance or unbalanced should be viewed as the same. With the way it's currently called, if he is unbalanced, then he has to maintain possession as he hits the ground. Again, it really makes no sense.

It should be control with two feet down (or one knee). Even if that control is for a nano second with the two feet (or one knee) down, it should be a catch. If the ball comes out it's a fumble, or the runner is down by contact. If it's in the endzone, it should be a touchdown.

That Dez Bryant play in the playoffs, and that Calvin Johnson game winner, should have both been catches. But this dumb rule prevented it. The Sanders' play from today's game should have been a catch and he was down by contact.

Drunken.Broncoholic2
09-24-2017, 04:19 PM
If he catches it clean, takes the same steps, and dribbled it on the ground the same way......It would've been ruled a catch and fumble.

The problem was that he bobbled it first, then seemed to control it with the steps, then did not maintain all the way.

Open to zebra interpretation at that point.

10 should've caught it but 13 should've had 6 there that close to the LOS.

As much as Trev has progressed in all other aspects, he will never have a game changing arm.

Is what it is.


Hes not in control of his body with those steps. The steps are a reaction from lost balanced while catching it. So that means he's on his way down. Any catch when you're on the way down has to be controlled to the end of the play.

The rule needs to be changed or reworded.

Brohemoth
09-24-2017, 04:19 PM
If Siemian hits Sanders in stride he goes to the endzone untouched, Denver goes up 17-7, and we don't have this thread. The ball got there but it was a huge miss IMO. Still poor security by Sanders.

HAT
09-24-2017, 04:20 PM
Does anyone have the gif?

I think the reason 10 bobbled it in the first place was from all the slowing down and stutter stepping he had to do to adjust to such a poorly thrown ball.

SVine
09-24-2017, 04:20 PM
No doubt the ball hit the ground when he punched it out. See it on the replay from the side.

I specifically looked for any part of the ball touching the ground and could not see it. In fact, it looked like Sanders actually re-adjusted his hands under the ball falling to the ground and any part of the ball may have never touched the ground at all.

jacob2125
09-24-2017, 04:20 PM
The biggest problem I had with it, there was NO CONCLUSIVE ANGLE that showed the ball actually hit the ground. NONE.

Exactly. It seems that whoever made the decision in New York just assumed that the ball hit the ground without any visual evidence.

HAT
09-24-2017, 04:20 PM
The biggest problem I had with it, there was NO CONCLUSIVE ANGLE that showed the ball actually hit the ground. NONE.

Are you high?

Clearly hit the ground.

Jason in LA
09-24-2017, 04:20 PM
I thought it was a catch, then fumble and recovery. Bert Emmanuel started this ****.

That should have been a catch. When the refs botched that one in the '99 NFCCG, the NFL made these convoluted rules to justify that play as being incomplete.

HAT
09-24-2017, 04:21 PM
Hes not in control of his body with those steps. The steps are a reaction from lost balanced while catching it. So that means he's on his way down. Any catch when you're on the way down has to be controlled to the end of the play.

The rule needs to be changed or reworded.

Agree 100%

Drunken.Broncoholic2
09-24-2017, 04:21 PM
I specifically looked for any part of the ball touching the ground and could not see it. In fact, it looked like Sanders actually re-adjusted his hands under the ball falling to the ground and any part of the ball may have never touched the ground at all.



I just watched it again. The camera angle where the Bills sideline erupts shows that ball moving with over half of it touching the ground. I hope Someone with good cut and paste skills will show this later on.

Castinkas
09-24-2017, 04:22 PM
The steps were him falling down, not working towards the endzone. And accordding to rules a player must maintain possession all the way to the ground.

Sanders did not.

Should have been a catch if ole noodle arm could actually throw the ball with any power.

The ball hit Sanders in the chest. Ole noodle arm did his part.

SVine
09-24-2017, 04:23 PM
Are you high?

Clearly hit the ground.


Your tv must be HD2160 or something like that?

Action
09-24-2017, 04:24 PM
This noodle arm thing is a retarded ass narrative.

Bronco Yoda
09-24-2017, 04:25 PM
According to the rule it's the correct call. Sanders isn't falling to the ground because he's being tackled. He's falling cause he's got no balance while catching it. Those steps aren't running to the endzone they are a reaction while catching the ball. So that means he needs to hold onto it the entire time. Defender punched it out during this process. Had he not been falling to the ground on his own, he's running to the endzone and would've been a fumble.



If there's no defender anywhere near him, does he still fall to the ground or is he running to endzone? That answer kicks the rule in.

I disagree. I just watched the play again this moment. Sanders caught the ball facing TS then turned completely around before taking three more steps. Is this not a football move?

BTW Sanders had complete control of the ball, had taken several steps and a football move when White 'PUNCHED' the ball out right before Sanders hit the ground. Then Sanders recovered it.

Watch it again. Even the announcers called it this way.

DrOrangeLove
09-24-2017, 04:27 PM
This noodle arm thing is a retarded ass narrative.

Of course. Look at the source.

Drunken.Broncoholic2
09-24-2017, 04:27 PM
I disagree. I just watched the play again this moment. Sanders caught the ball facing TS then turned completely around before taking three more steps.

BTW Sanders had the complete control of the ball, had taken several steps and a football move when Dixon 'PUNCHED' the ball out right before Sanders hit the ground.

Watch it again. Even the announcers called it this way.


if no defender around him, does Sanders still fall to the ground with the same move? He's on his way to the ground when he turns around. The defender didn't touch him until it was punched out.

HAT
09-24-2017, 04:29 PM
The ball hit Sanders in the chest. Ole noodle arm did his part.

I'm not excusing 10 for the bobble but probably 28-30 of other QBs that started this week hit him in stride and the point becomes moot.

People minimized Sloter's first PS TD because 'busted coverage.....

When you get busted coverage, you have to bust it. Even Tebow knew this.

Jason in LA
09-24-2017, 04:29 PM
While Sanders had his hand on the ball, the ball did touch the ground. At that point it slightly dislodged from his grasp. His hand never came off the ball, but he didn't have total control. That's why it was an incomplete pass. If the ball hit the ground and Sanders kept complete control of it, it's a catch.

All of that makes it a convoluted rule.

HAT
09-24-2017, 04:32 PM
Your tv must be HD2160 or something like that?

YouTube stream on a 6 year old sub $200 laptop.

Had my contacts in though.

HAT
09-24-2017, 04:34 PM
Can someone just please post the gif?

Bronco Yoda
09-24-2017, 04:34 PM
While Sanders had his hand on the ball, the ball did touch the ground. At that point it slightly dislodged from his grasp. His hand never came off the ball, but he didn't have total control. That's why it was an incomplete pass. If the ball hit the ground and Sanders kept complete control of it, it's a catch.

All of that makes it a convoluted rule.

That's not true. Watch the replay again. Sanders had complete control until White punched the ball out at the last second before hitting the ground.

It was a great Defensive play that should have resulted in a fumble... then a recovery by Sanders. Watch it again.

GaryPupiak
09-24-2017, 04:36 PM
Can't believe how many dopes think that was not a catch. Use your eyes folks. 3 STEPS COUNTS AS POSSESSION CLEAR AS DAY AND HE MADE A COMPLETE TURN!!!

GaryPupiak
09-24-2017, 04:37 PM
That's not true. Watch the replay again. Sanders had complete control until White punched the ball out at the last second before hitting the ground.

It was a great Defensive play that should have resulted in a fumble... then a recovery by Sanders. Watch it again.

Exactly

Drunken.Broncoholic2
09-24-2017, 04:46 PM
That's not true. Watch the replay again. Sanders had complete control until White punched the ball out at the last second before hitting the ground.

It was a great Defensive play that should have resulted in a fumble... then a recovery by Sanders. Watch it again.



It's a fumble if Sanders steps were in control and running up field. His steps were catching his balance. Refs will interpret that as going to the ground after the catch.

Bronco Yoda
09-24-2017, 04:47 PM
if no defender around him, does Sanders still fall to the ground with the same move? He's on his way to the ground when he turns around. The defender didn't touch him until it was punched out.

Actually White does touch him first before knocking the ball out. He was completely wrapped around him from the back before punching the ball loose... albeit it was a bam, bam play. White was bear hugging him from behind before he punched the ball with his right hand. White's left arm is wrapped around Sanders other side and they're doing a gentle man-spoon in mid-air before Sanders hit the ground.

Superman and lois lane flying together had nothing on their short flight in mid-air together.

"Can you read my mind"
"Do you realize the ref will take away my fumble recovery"

Now let us all watch this cringe worthy video for affect...
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/xqI3a4vBpxU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>






I have the play on freeze frame right now on my tv. I'm looking at it right now. Amazing how my freeze frame on a dish network DVR is better than whatever the NFL uses. They should switch to Direct TV! :yayaya:


.

BroncosfanGuy
09-24-2017, 04:53 PM
Can't believe how many dopes think that was not a catch. Use your eyes folks. 3 STEPS COUNTS AS POSSESSION CLEAR AS DAY AND HE MADE A COMPLETE TURN!!!

i don't get how it's being argued otherwise

Drunken.Broncoholic2
09-24-2017, 04:53 PM
Actually White does touch him first before knocking the ball out. He was completely wrapped around him from the back before punching the ball loose... albeit it was a bam, bam play. White was bear hugging him from behind before he punched the ball with his right hand. White's left arm is wrapped around Sanders other side and they're doing a gentle man-spoon in mid-air before Sanders hit the ground.

I have it on freeze frame right now on my tv. I'm looking at it right now. Amazing how my freeze frame on a dish network DVR is better than whatever the NFL uses. They should switch to Direct TV! :yayaya:


You should be able to see Sanders had no balance and the steps were trying to regain his balance. If Sanders had complete control of his body it becomes a different scenario. No balance and falling = catch extends till he hits the ground.

Drunken.Broncoholic2
09-24-2017, 04:54 PM
Can't believe how many dopes think that was not a catch. Use your eyes folks. 3 STEPS COUNTS AS POSSESSION CLEAR AS DAY AND HE MADE A COMPLETE TURN!!!




Those steps aren't running to the end zone!!!


They are reactionary steps to losing balance. Big difference under the rule.

Wes Mantooth
09-24-2017, 04:54 PM
it was a catch.

cooks made a similar catch against houston to win the game...except he didn't secure the ball and take 3 steps before the ball hit the ground. his was a td and sanders' somehow wasn't.

nfl officiating isn't good

Actually, both were reviewed. Nfl review team is not good

BroncosfanGuy
09-24-2017, 04:56 PM
Those steps aren't running to the end zone!!!


They are reactionary steps to losing balance. Big difference under the rule.

you keep saying this but he caught the ball, secured it, turned, ran (toward the ez) and had the ball poked out on the way down. by any and all logic, especially common sense, it's a catch.

Bronco Yoda
09-24-2017, 04:59 PM
Those steps aren't running to the end zone!!!


They are reactionary steps to losing balance. Big difference under the rule.

This argument falls apart when you realize that White was then wrapped around him in mid-air before Sanders ever touch the ground. He was now at this point in the midst of being tackled.

Then White "Punched" the ball loose before Sanders was down.

LikeABoss5820
09-24-2017, 04:59 PM
That was literally the same thing Cooks did.

Receiver caught it, took a couple steps, then bobbled it. Thats a catch then recovered fumble. That play changed the game.

Drunken.Broncoholic2
09-24-2017, 05:00 PM
you keep saying this but he caught the ball, secured it, turned, ran (toward the ez) and had the ball poked out on the way down. by any and all logic, especially common sense, it's a catch.



He's not in control of his body. When he turns around that's balanced? The dude is stumbling in those steps. if that's controlled running, it's the ugliest I've seen.

Bronx33
09-24-2017, 05:01 PM
Had possession for three steps the ball is punched loose while hes going down making it a fumble ( nuff said)

Bronco Yoda
09-24-2017, 05:07 PM
Sanders caught the ball and had full control

Sanders turned completely around making a football move then took three more steps (albeit heading for a fall)

White tackled him from behind wrapping both arms around him before he ever hit the ground.

White punched the ball loose in the process of tackling Sanders before Sanders hit the ground.

Sanders recovered the fumble

Did I miss anything?

Bronx33
09-24-2017, 05:08 PM
Sanders caught the ball and had full control

Sanders turned completely around making a football move then took three more steps (albeit heading for a fall)

White tackled him from behind wrapping both arms around him before he ever hit the ground.

White punched the ball loose in the process of tackling Sanders before Sanders hit the ground.

Sanders recovered the fumble

Did I miss anything?


Nope

Drunken.Broncoholic2
09-24-2017, 05:10 PM
Dez Bryant had the same catch reversed last year.

The ref is going to interpret the steps as controlled or not. those steps were cause he lost his balance catching and turning around. the defender comes in as these uncontrolled steps are happening.


You guys can blame the refs. I'll blame a WR who can't catch in 2017.

strafen
09-24-2017, 05:11 PM
The steps were him falling down, not working towards the endzone. And accordding to rules a player must maintain possession all the way to the ground.

Sanders did not.

Should have been a catch if ole noodle arm could actually throw the ball with any power.

Bull****! He made a football move all the while having his hands wrapped around the ball, it only mived when he hit the ground for which then it should been a fumble and a fumble recovery

Drunken.Broncoholic2
09-24-2017, 05:11 PM
Sanders caught the ball and had full control

Sanders turned completely around making a football move then took three more stepsalbeit heading for a fall)

White tackled him from behind wrapping both arms around him before he ever hit the ground.

White punched the ball loose in the process of tackling Sanders before Sanders hit the ground.

Sanders recovered the fumble

Did I miss anything?


Bolded is the reason why. A ref is going to interpret those steps as part of the catching process.

Bronco Yoda
09-24-2017, 05:17 PM
Bolded is the reason why. A ref is going to interpret those steps as part of the catching process.

I get what you're saying... I do.

But... had White not then tackled him before going down then I could see the interpretation. IMO once White draped him and had both hands around him then he was in the process of being tackled.... regardless if he would have fallen down anyway.

Then to top it off, White punched the ball loose while in the act of tackling him and (Sanders had complete control of the ball at the time and was not down yet).

Now the play was a bam, bam play... but it's all clear once you watch the play again in slow motion.

GaryPupiak
09-24-2017, 05:19 PM
Bolded is the reason why. A ref is going to interpret those steps as part of the catching process.

Catching process = catch with ball secured, two steps, and a "football move."

Nothing more dude, you make it sound like nuclear physics

Bronco Yoda
09-24-2017, 05:21 PM
So in my mind then anyway... it comes down to if tackling a player who's already going down is considered a 'tackle'? That's the only argument I could possibly see. Right?

strafen
09-24-2017, 05:22 PM
Dez Bryant had the same catch reversed last year.

The ref is going to interpret the steps as controlled or not. those steps were cause he lost his balance catching and turning around. the defender comes in as these uncontrolled steps are happening.


You guys can blame the refs. I'll blame a WR who can't catch in 2017.

A WR for the patriots today (Cooks) had towards the end of game a similar play that was ruled a catch after review

Bronco Yoda
09-24-2017, 05:27 PM
The biggest problem I had with it, there was NO CONCLUSIVE ANGLE that showed the ball actually hit the ground. NONE.

My DVR replay of their slow-mo replay CLEARLY shows (from the front) White punching the ball loose right before they both hit the ground.

Bronco Yoda
09-24-2017, 05:28 PM
The biggest problem I had with it, there was NO CONCLUSIVE ANGLE that showed the ball actually hit the ground. NONE.

My DVR replay of their slow-mo replay CLEARLY shows (from the front) White punching the ball loose right before they both hit the ground.

I'm just amazed now that I've got the play up on freeze frame on my TV right now. They really messed up!

No excuse in this age of freeze frame and multiple camera angles. If my Direct TV caught it... why didn't theirs?

HAT
09-24-2017, 05:30 PM
It's rather amazing that people are shouting "football move" without knowing the rules.

Bottom line is ES still should've caught that garbage throw.

Just like Von should've walked away from his hit on TT.

Bottom line....Do your job well enough so the refs don't have an opportunity to interpret otherwise.

uplink
09-24-2017, 05:39 PM
I bet the refs would have called it a fumble if sanders had lost it on the ground

Bronco Yoda
09-24-2017, 05:55 PM
It's rather amazing that people are shouting "football move" without knowing the rules.

Bottom line is ES still should've caught that garbage throw.

Just like Von should've walked away from his hit on TT.

Bottom line....Do your job well enough so the refs don't have an opportunity to interpret otherwise.

Then what is YOUR interpretation of a 'football move'?

Sanders caught the ball looking SOUTH and back-peddling while getting control of the catch. Then he made a conscious move to twist his body around to then run NORTH. Albeit an awkward and out of balance move.

Neither momentum nor another player changed his course. He made this move on his own.... in the direction of the play i might add.

Does a 'football move' then have to be graceful to be considered a true 'football move'?

HAT
09-24-2017, 06:05 PM
See post #15 yoda......

If ES starts the catch clean this thread doesn't exist.

The fact that he bobbled the under thrown ball changed everything.

strafen
09-24-2017, 06:28 PM
See post #15 yoda......

If ES starts the catch clean this thread doesn't exist.

The fact that he bobbled the under thrown ball changed everything.

Answer the question
What's YOUR interpretation of a football move?!

tcash777
09-24-2017, 06:43 PM
The whole "I don't know what a catch is anymore" movement is totally overblown. It's really not that hard. I knew it wasn't a catch as soon as I saw the replay, sadly. I'm the biggest Sanders fan there is and he is on all my fantasy teams- it wasn't a catch.

Complain about the rule all you want, but by the interpretation of the rule, it wasn't a catch.

Whoever said it didn't touch the ground, open your eyes a little harder.

yerner
09-24-2017, 06:55 PM
Trevor should have led him and it would have been a TD.

Castinkas
09-24-2017, 07:04 PM
I'm not excusing 10 for the bobble but probably 28-30 of other QBs that started this week hit him in stride and the point becomes moot.

People minimized Sloter's first PS TD because 'busted coverage.....

When you get busted coverage, you have to bust it. Even Tebow knew this.

Damn 40 yard gains! 28-30 qbs? Naw

Albino Rhino
09-24-2017, 07:10 PM
Also, the "catch" was ruled a catch on the field. This was a close call either way you look at it....I don't think there was enough to overturn the call on the field. Was it last Dez last week? they reviewed if one toe was down. It was close either way, but they upheld the call on the field, which the NFL likes to do in most cases.

maher_tyler
09-24-2017, 07:27 PM
Sanders caught the ball and had full control

Sanders turned completely around making a football move then took three more steps (albeit heading for a fall)

White tackled him from behind wrapping both arms around him before he ever hit the ground.

White punched the ball loose in the process of tackling Sanders before Sanders hit the ground.

Sanders recovered the fumble

Did I miss anything?

This is what I thought.

GaryPupiak
09-24-2017, 07:32 PM
I also thought that one buffalo play they fumbled through the end zone. I forget who it was, but VJ absolutely should have challenged that

jklb234
09-24-2017, 07:33 PM
This is what I thought.

Exactly. It's confusing. What if he took 4 steps going to the ground is that a catch or no.

GaryPupiak
09-24-2017, 07:35 PM
Exactly. It's confusing. What if he took 4 steps going to the ground is that a catch or no.

According to drunk alcoholic, 14 steps are required

GaryPupiak
09-24-2017, 07:37 PM
I think Clay fumbled through the end zone, VJ not challenging was a major boner

tcash777
09-24-2017, 07:38 PM
I don't think the number of steps matters...if you are stumbling downward, the ball can't slip. If you stumble for 14 steps...then so be it.

Drunken.Broncoholic2
09-24-2017, 07:41 PM
I don't think the number of steps matters...if you are stumbling downward, the ball can't slip. If you stumble for 14 steps...then so be it.


Exactly. Not sure why this is difficult to understand under the way the rule is written. These steps are going to the ground. Therefore the ball has to be controlled the entire way. NY and the ref interpreted these steps as going to the ground, not running to the endzone.

GaryPupiak
09-24-2017, 07:48 PM
I don't think the number of steps matters...if you are stumbling downward, the ball can't slip. If you stumble for 14 steps...then so be it.

He had control of the ball for three steps, and then had a defender pulling him down. Stumbling doesn't matter Dingbat.

If Sanders had fumbled that ball outright I gguarantee it would have been ruled a catch-fumble.

MplsBronco
09-24-2017, 07:51 PM
It's to the point that i am ashamed to invest time and emotion into a sport/league that has such ridiculous rules and even more ridiculous interpretations of those rules. I love the broncos but am really considering giving this **** up. And I never miss a game . I'm the type of guy who stayed up all night on vacation in Paris just to see Orton let the ball slip out of his hands against the raiders. Remember that?

Add on the von penalty and it's just not fun anymore wondering when your team is gonna get butt****ed by the refs.

The only hope is they make replay for scoring plays only and simplify the catch rule. Whatever happened to 2 feet? The reffing/rules is ruining the game.

When common sense is out the window maybe there's no hope. Everyone can agree by the eyes test that was a catch. To have rules that say it wasn't is just beyond absurd.

Drunken.Broncoholic2
09-24-2017, 07:53 PM
He had control of the ball for three steps, and then had a defender pulling him down. Stumbling doesn't matter Dingbat.

If Sanders had fumbled that ball outright I gguarantee it would have been ruled a catch-fumble.


Someone needs to post this play. Cause sanders turns and the steps are him trying to gain control of his body. The defender accelerated him to the ground.


It's a rule that needs to be changed. It puts a ref in a position to judge when a player is going to the ground or in full control running down the field. Sanders ain't running to the end zone if no ones there. He turns around and stumbles to gain control.

MplsBronco
09-24-2017, 07:55 PM
He had control of the ball for three steps, and then had a defender pulling him down. Stumbling doesn't matter Dingbat.

If Sanders had fumbled that ball outright I gguarantee it would have been ruled a catch-fumble.

Exactly what I think. If he truly lost possession it would have ruled a fumble. I think there is a shady component to this too. Game fixing or whatever. But the broncos get **** ed way more than their opponents. The Dez catch last week, the ball hit the ground. Everyone was focused o has feet when the ball hit the ground. But that was a catch.

The Horse
09-24-2017, 08:17 PM
Trevor should have led him and it would have been a TD.

This is exactly what I thought. TS was slow to recognize a wide open receiver.

SonOfLe-loLang
09-24-2017, 08:25 PM
This is exactly what I thought. TS was slow to recognize a wide open receiver.

You're blaming the wrong guy. It could have a been a better throw, but we see worse throws all the time. It should have been caught. It should have been a 44 yard gain.

maher_tyler
09-24-2017, 08:45 PM
It's to the point that i am ashamed to invest time and emotion into a sport/league that has such ridiculous rules and even more ridiculous interpretations of those rules. I love the broncos but am really considering giving this **** up. And I never miss a game . I'm the type of guy who stayed up all night on vacation in Paris just to see Orton let the ball slip out of his hands against the raiders. Remember that?

Add on the von penalty and it's just not fun anymore wondering when your team is gonna get butt****ed by the refs.

The only hope is they make replay for scoring plays only and simplify the catch rule. Whatever happened to 2 feet? The reffing/rules is ruining the game.

When common sense is out the window maybe there's no hope. Everyone can agree by the eyes test that was a catch. To have rules that say it wasn't is just beyond absurd.

This is where I am. They need to simplify the damn rule and leave it alone. They tried fixing it and it's even worse. Refs shouldn't have an impact on who wins games but they do and they certainly did again today.

Ratboy
09-24-2017, 08:51 PM
Just get rid of instant replay unless it's a scoring play or a turnover.

broncocalijohn
09-24-2017, 08:52 PM
you're vying for the highly coveted spot of worst poster on the mane. :thumbs:

vying? Any given Sunday, he is by far the worst poster. Hard to imagine he is actually not suicidal in life.

Enter The Dragon
09-24-2017, 08:55 PM
Pandoras box when they even allowed instant replay. It's amazing the catch or no catch hasn't been addressed in off-season rule committee. Instead let push the extra point back. The catch rules are insanely confusing for the fans and the players.

Ratboy
09-24-2017, 08:57 PM
A player who makes a catch may advance the ball. A forward pass is complete (by the offense) or intercepted (by the defense) if a player, who is inbounds:

1. secures control of the ball in his hands or arms prior to the ball touching the ground; and

2. touches the ground inbounds with both feet or with any part of his body other than his hands; and

3. maintains control of the ball after (a) and (b) have been fulfilled, until he has the ball long enough to clearly become a runner. A player has the ball long enough to become a runner when, after his second foot is on the ground, he is capable of avoiding or warding off impending contact of an opponent, tucking the ball away, turning up field, or taking additional steps (see 3-2-7-Item 2).

Based off the rule book, it was 100% a catch.

NFL is rigged.

Drunken.Broncoholic2
09-24-2017, 08:58 PM
Pandoras box when they even allowed instant replay. It's amazing the catch or no catch hasn't been addressed in off-season rule committee. Instead let push the extra point back. The catch rules are insanely confusing for the fans and the players.



The rule is completely flawed when they added the going to the ground aspect. Going to the ground after th catch can last for several yards and seconds. There's been some historic catches over the years that wouldn't be a catch under this rule.

It needs to be clarified in a way that takes the judgement away from the refs.

Rohirrim
09-24-2017, 09:00 PM
Sanders secured the ball and took two steps down the field before beginning to fall to the ground. That's a catch. Period. That ref should be fired. He made multiple horrible calls that altered the outcome of the game.

Drunken.Broncoholic2
09-24-2017, 09:07 PM
Sanders secured the ball and took two steps down the field before beginning to fall to the ground. That's a catch. Period. That ref should be fired. He made multiple horrible calls that altered the outcome of the game.

Those steps were him trying to gain balance. They weren't accelerated steps to start running to the endzone or away from defenders. He lost balance backing up to catch it, and the steps were trying to regain balance from falling forward. Defender hits him at any point it extends the to the ground rule. That's the part of the rule that needs to be changed.

Just different in opinions of what his steps were trying to do.

Garcia Bronco
09-24-2017, 09:12 PM
I reiterate I don't care what the rule says. the refs probably called it right. but don't try to tell me that four steps with possession of the ball is not a catch.

The Horse
09-24-2017, 09:16 PM
You're blaming the wrong guy. It could have a been a better throw, but we see worse throws all the time. It should have been caught. It should have been a 44 yard gain.

Are you saying the ball wasn't under thown? Go back and look because it clearly was. I'm not placing blame just stating a fact. He was slow to recognize an open receiver. Of course it should have been caught.

broncocalijohn
09-24-2017, 09:17 PM
Sanders secured the ball and took two steps down the field before beginning to fall to the ground. That's a catch. Period. That ref should be fired. He made multiple horrible calls that altered the outcome of the game.

Ref made the correct call, the NFL back in NY made the ****ty call.

Drunken.Broncoholic2
09-24-2017, 09:18 PM
I reiterate I don't care what the rule says. the refs probably called it right. but don't try to tell me that four steps with possession of the ball is not a catch.



If he's falling forward in those four steps the ref is going to include those 4 steps in the process of a catch.

cmc0605
09-24-2017, 09:23 PM
Many things are simultaneously true

1) I can buy that it wasn't a catch, though I think the catch-fumble-recovery line is more credible here.
2) I don't think there was irrefutable evidence to overturn a ruled completion
3) Sanders needs to make a cleaner catch. This is not the first time Sanders has dropped a slightly difficult ball this year, despite normally being clutch in those situations in previous years. It's actually incredibly frustrating to see that one missed. That should be a routine snag based on his separation at the time the ball made contact with his fingers.
4) Blaming Siemian for that play is ridiculous. It's not the most perfect "bread in the basket in stride" passes, but very catchable and a very standard look for that kind of play. There's a reason 40+ yard passes are low percentage.

Drunken.Broncoholic2
09-24-2017, 09:30 PM
Many things are simultaneously true

1) I can buy that it wasn't a catch, though I think the catch-fumble-recovery line is more credible here.
2) I don't think there was irrefutable evidence to overturn a ruled completion
3) Sanders needs to make a cleaner catch. This is not the first time Sanders has dropped a slightly difficult ball this year, despite normally being clutch in those situations in previous years. It's actually incredibly frustrating to see that one missed.
4) Blaming Siemian for that play is ridiculous. It's not the most perfect "bread in the basket in stride" passes, but very catchable and a very standard look for that kind of play. There's a reason 40+ yard passes are low percentage.




3 is important to this play IMO. If he doesn't bobble it he makes the turn around clean. The bobble threw him off balance when turning around, which made the steps forward going to the ground part of the catch.


We should get an explanation this week. We need gone fishin's tweet skills on posting a slow replay of this.

Zealot
09-24-2017, 10:23 PM
Exactly. Not sure why this is difficult to understand under the way the rule is written. These steps are going to the ground. Therefore the ball has to be controlled the entire way. NY and the ref interpreted these steps as going to the ground, not running to the endzone.

I thought I remembered after the CJ situation that there was a distinction as to how you were going to the ground. If you were going under your own power, you could lose control - at least in a case like this where he has taken several steps. If you were going to the ground as a result of the defender, then you have to maintain it all the way. Did they drop that element or am I remembering it wrong?

gyldenlove
09-24-2017, 11:52 PM
I get that rules are pretty strict on plays going to the ground, it was the same with the TD called incomplete the Bills had early on. But to me both were cases of a catch and fumble, both players secured the ball, moved upfield and then lost it.

pricejj
09-25-2017, 01:12 AM
It was a great play by the defender to jar the ball loose as Sanders was going to the ground. Not a catch, by the rules. Next time Broncos should try mentally preparing for the game. Complete lack of focus.

MplsBronco
09-25-2017, 05:47 AM
A player who makes a catch may advance the ball. A forward pass is complete (by the offense) or intercepted (by the defense) if a player, who is inbounds:

1. secures control of the ball in his hands or arms prior to the ball touching the ground; and

2. touches the ground inbounds with both feet or with any part of his body other than his hands; and

3. maintains control of the ball after (a) and (b) have been fulfilled, until he has the ball long enough to clearly become a runner. A player has the ball long enough to become a runner when, after his second foot is on the ground, he is capable of avoiding or warding off impending contact of an opponent, tucking the ball away, turning up field, or taking additional steps (see 3-2-7-Item 2).

Based off the rule book, it was 100% a catch.

NFL is rigged.

Wow, just wow. It was called right on the field and then overturned by some third party. And people say no way the fix is in on these games. It's beyond simple ineptitude. It's crooked AF.

Strip Sacked
09-25-2017, 05:48 AM
The steps were him falling down, not working towards the endzone. And accordding to rules a player must maintain possession all the way to the ground.

Sanders did not.

Should have been a catch if ole noodle arm could actually throw the ball with any power.

You're stupid.

Drunken.Broncoholic2
09-25-2017, 08:51 AM
It was a great play by the defender to jar the ball loose as Sanders was going to the ground. Not a catch, by the rules. Next time Broncos should try mentally preparing for the game. Complete lack of focus.



I'm not sure why people can't see him falling forward. His fall actually started when he was backwards at the point of the catch. Turns around while still leaning forward. Sanders even puts his left arm out to cushion his fall, before the ball was even knocked out. Stretching that left arm out made it easier to knock the ball out. When people fall forward, they use their arm to cushion the fall. If he's "falling" forward, the "to the ground" aspect of the rule still applies. He had no balance from the bobble and turning around. It's an entire process

SonOfLe-loLang
09-25-2017, 09:03 AM
I'm not sure why people can't see him falling forward. His fall actually started when he was backwards at the point of the catch. Turns around while still leaning forward. Sanders even puts his left arm out to cushion his fall, before the ball was even knocked out. Stretching that left arm out made it easier to knock the ball out. When people fall forward, they use their arm to cushion the fall. If he's "falling" forward, the "to the ground" aspect of the rule still applies. He had no balance from the bobble and turning around. It's an entire process

I think what annoyed me more is that they called it a catch on the field. They just are never consistent with this call.

Garcia Bronco
09-25-2017, 09:06 AM
If he's falling forward in those four steps the ref is going to include those 4 steps in the process of a catch.

What if he took 20 steps falling to the ground?

Rohirrim
09-25-2017, 09:06 AM
The call on the field was a catch. There wasn't enough to overturn it.

SonOfLe-loLang
09-25-2017, 09:08 AM
I'm still ****ing annoyed at that Tyreek Hill touchdown last year haha. That one will never cease to stick in my craw.

Drunken.Broncoholic2
09-25-2017, 09:27 AM
What if he took 20 steps falling to the ground?



If you can't regain control of your body in 20 steps....might need crutches.

Drunken.Broncoholic2
09-25-2017, 09:33 AM
The call on the field was a catch. There wasn't enough to overturn it.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSDKzGYICPA

5:10 mark of this video shows the ball hitting the ground. It also shows Sanders falling forward with his arm going out before the ball is knocke out.



Btw the shirt he's wearing is awesome.

Dr.10-307
09-25-2017, 09:34 AM
The problem with the new catch rule is consistency. Too much grey area and the officials seem to be hit or miss. The ball moved when Cooks went to the ground on the game winning TD pass in NE. That could've been overturned, but wasn't.

They need to simplify the rule. Two feet down with possession. If the ball comes out after that, it's a fumble.

Ratboy
09-25-2017, 10:08 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSDKzGYICPA

5:10 mark of this video shows the ball hitting the ground. It also shows Sanders falling forward with his arm going out before the ball is knocke out.



Btw the shirt he's wearing is awesome.

The ball hitting the ground = a fumble.

A player has the ball long enough to become a runner when, after his second foot is on the ground, he is capable of avoiding or warding off impending contact of an opponent, tucking the ball away, turning up field, or taking additional steps .

He took multiple steps, tucked the ball, turned up field, AND took additional steps.

The NFL official who made the reversal should have his balls cut off.

Drunken.Broncoholic2
09-25-2017, 10:10 AM
The ball hitting the ground = a fumble.

A player has the ball long enough to become a runner when, after his second foot is on the ground, he is capable of avoiding or warding off impending contact of an opponent, tucking the ball away, turning up field, or taking additional steps .

He took multiple steps, tucked the ball, turned up field, AND took additional steps.

The NFL official who made the reversal should have his balls cut off.




It's not a fumble if the ref is interpreting that entire movement as falling down. Sanders doesn't turn to run to the endzone. He's turning around and falling forward.



Here's Dean Blandino explaining it exactly how I've been saying the whole time.

http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/video/1053837379689

MplsBronco
09-25-2017, 10:23 AM
Here's where I am at. I don't give 2 craps about what the NFL says. It's a completely garbage rule and is turning me off of the product. Anyone with an ounce of common sense can see that was a catch. Plain and simple. The problem is the NFL and these asinine rules. If Sanders lost the ball upon contact with the ground then I could maybe see the argument. But the defender knocked it out after Sanders had control for 4 or 5 steps. I don't know what else to say. It's maddening to waste 3 hours of my day to see games decided by this stuff. It's not worth it anymore. And as was mentioned, Cooks' game ending catch his arm completely rolls off the ball as he hits the ground and the entire side of the ball is in contact with the ground but that stays a catch. The product sucks.

Drunken.Broncoholic2
09-25-2017, 10:28 AM
Here's where I am at. I don't give 2 craps about what the NFL says. It's a completely garbage rule and is turning me off of the product. Anyone with an ounce of common sense can see that was a catch. Plain and simple. The problem is the NFL and these asinine rules. If Sanders lost the ball upon contact with the ground then I could maybe see the argument. But the defender knocked it out after Sanders had control for 4 or 5 steps. I don't know what else to say. It's maddening to waste 3 hours of my day to see games decided by this stuff. It's not worth it anymore. And as was mentioned, Cooks' game ending catch his arm completely rolls off the ball as he hits the ground and the entire side of the ball is in contact with the ground but that stays a catch. The product sucks.



The rule needs to be changed cause it's worded to fit the description of how they interpreted Sanders falling throughout the play.

Change the rule.

maven
09-25-2017, 10:32 AM
The NFL and their stupid rules regarding a catch.

The Sanders caught that ball, but the rules...it's BS

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/N83jLhwHME4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Not the same, but that was an amazing catch. No TD. You stupid NFL

SonOfLe-loLang
09-25-2017, 10:34 AM
The NFL and their stupid rules regarding a catch.

The Sanders caught that ball, but the rules...it's BS

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/N83jLhwHME4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Not the same, but that was an amazing catch. No TD. You stupid NFL

Yeah, that one was pretty egregious.

And the rule is stupid. Sometimes its just common sense. Sanders caught the ball

MplsBronco
09-25-2017, 10:39 AM
The NFL and their stupid rules regarding a catch.

The Sanders caught that ball, but the rules...it's BS

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/N83jLhwHME4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Not the same, but that was an amazing catch. No TD. You stupid NFL

It's embarrassing.

Zealot
09-25-2017, 12:57 PM
@Drunken
I thought I remembered after the CJ situation that there was a distinction as to how you were going to the ground. If you were going under your own power, you could lose control - at least in a case like this where he has taken several steps. If you were going to the ground as a result of the defender, then you have to maintain it all the way. Did they drop that element or am I remembering it wrong?

SonOfLe-loLang
09-26-2017, 08:36 AM
I watched this again in slo-mo about 6 times and, I'm sorry, its a friggin catch. I don't care if he's stumbling. using his own body control, he turns, with possession, takes 2 steps and on his way to the ground, the ball is forced out. Thats a fumble. Its ridiculous that this was overturned.