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Flashback
08-23-2017, 01:03 PM
http://bsndenver.com/heres-the-thing-about-trevor-siemian/

"What if I told you that you could have a quarterback who, in his first year as a starter, had a better passer rating than Cam Newton and Jameis Winston did, more yards than Russell Wilson and Joe Flacco did, more yards per attempt than Andrew Luck and Derek Carr did, more yards per game than Marcus Mariota and Dak Prescott did and more touchdowns than Carson Wentz and Teddy Bridgewater did?

You’d take him, right?

Well, Broncos fans, you got him.

That’s right, when you compare the 2016 stats of Trevor Siemian to every other first-year starter in the last decade, the Broncos’ quarterback ranks in the top third of just about any passing stat you can drum up. Ranking in the top 10 of many and in the top five of stats like yards per game, fourth-quarter comebacks and 300-yard games."

Kaylore
08-23-2017, 01:07 PM
I like him because he wears a Broncos logo on his helmet.

I'm officially a fan of his now because he has fought and clawed for everything he's gotten. Other guys have been gifted the starting job for the Broncos and either walked away, or not wanted to take it. He's earned it twice despite the Broncos doing everything they can to give it to someone else. So go Trevor. Here's to you growing and hopefully remaining durable.

Greatspirits
08-23-2017, 01:09 PM
I think the addition of McCoy and Musgrave and this offense will make the biggest difference.

Archer81
08-23-2017, 01:10 PM
I expect good things from this thread.

...

Totes.

:Broncos:

ludo21
08-23-2017, 01:11 PM
Future 30 for 30 will be made of Trevor no emotion Siemian.

I love Broncos Players who dont suck, so I am ok with TS as well.

Broncoandrew
08-23-2017, 01:11 PM
I like him because he wears a Broncos logo on his helmet.

I'm officially a fan of his now because he has fought and clawed for everything he's gotten. Other guys have been gifted the starting job for the Broncos and either walked away, or not wanted to take it. He's earned it twice despite the Broncos doing everything they can to give it to someone else. So go Trevor. Here's to you growing and hopefully remaining durable.

I love the guys fight. If he didn't have competitive fire in him he would have given up.

Drunken.Broncoholic2
08-23-2017, 01:21 PM
so are we to get upset when these stats stay the same? Or do we automatically expect them to rise like the blue chip top ranked QBs mentioned because he bested them?



People laugh at the notion his agent will ask for 18+M, OM is ready to give him 20+ right now.


Some clown rolled through demanding he get paid for loss of wages during this rookie contract. Agents wait till that contract is up then put a price not only on future years, but years past for outperforming a contract. Think Dumervil.


Siemian has one year to prove he's a long term answer here. If he's flat this season he's gone. If he propels into top 15 or so QB maybe they keep him. But at what rate?

Action
08-23-2017, 01:23 PM
so are we to get upset when these stats stay the same? Or do we automatically expect them to rise like the blue chip top ranked QBs mentioned because he bested them?

If they rise, anti-Siemians are wrong.

And they will rise. People don't understand how horrible bad the offense was last year and how there was 0 running game.

People are actually forgetting this.

What first year starting QB you know can look decent with a running game like ours last year?

Action
08-23-2017, 01:31 PM
People here aren't qualified. I'm not either but the difference is I watch other football games with the same focus as I do the Broncos.

People actually buy into this checkdown Siemian nonsense. This whole - throw behind the 3rd down marker nonsense.

Watch some Tom Brady film.

Drunken.Broncoholic2
08-23-2017, 01:45 PM
People here aren't qualified. I'm not either but the difference is I watch other football games with the same focus as I do the Broncos.

People actually buy into this checkdown Siemian nonsense. This whole - throw behind the 3rd down marker nonsense.

Watch some Tom Brady film.


Alex Smith has made a career of it. He won't ever win it all doing it though.

I think with today's fantasy craze there's a lot more people who watch other games. In the past you're either watching local markets or going to a bar that plays all games. Now with the ticket/networks streams etc the general football fan is being exposed to others.

For me, I gamble so I broaden my spectrum outside of the Broncos quite a bit.

Action
08-23-2017, 01:46 PM
Alex Smith has made a career of it. He won't ever win it all doing it though.

I think with today's fantasy craze there's a lot more people who watch other games. In the past you're either watching local markets or going to a bar that plays all games. Now with the ticket/networks streams etc the general football fan is being exposed to others.

For me, I gamble so I broaden my spectrum outside of the Broncos quite a bit.

Siemian is not like Alex Smith.

The narrative is poor and people who buy into it aren't actually aware of what they're watching.

MplsBronco
08-23-2017, 01:49 PM
Siemian haters are like Trump supporters. FAKE NEWS!

Action
08-23-2017, 01:51 PM
Siemian had a higher yards per completion last season than Alex Smith has had his whole career.

Try again

Drunken.Broncoholic2
08-23-2017, 01:58 PM
Siemian is not like Alex Smith.

The narrative is poor and people who buy into it aren't actually aware of what they're watching.



I didn't say he was. I said Alex Smith made a career out of (checking down) and throwing short of the sticks. His running kept him alive as a starter. Now that he's older he can't rely on it, enter Mahones.

Archer81
08-23-2017, 02:01 PM
I think some people want to argue, and purposely pick topics that they themselves have no control over and keep arguing it out in every thread they encounter.

This is Siemian's prove it year. He either does so, or Denver as a team moves on. Either to Lynch or some guy not yet on the roster. I for one am looking forward to this season. It should be fun.

:Broncos:

bronco militia
08-23-2017, 02:07 PM
https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/8ni6qahuo765PPE4Wb00JKfCZ0A=/410x0/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/48769989/Screen_Shot_2016-02-09_at_12.45.27_PM.0.0.png

Brohemoth
08-23-2017, 02:12 PM
It sounds nice until you compare play styles and consider which ones tend to grow in larger increments.

Aggressive QBs start slower but hit the hardest when they realize what works and doesn't work.

Conservative QBs tend to stay conservative. They don't peck away at their ceiling enough to have the same major "ah-hah" steps.

SonOfLe-loLang
08-23-2017, 02:19 PM
It sounds nice until you compare play styles and consider which ones tend to grow in larger increments.

Aggressive QBs start slower but hit the hardest when they realize what works and doesn't work.

Conservative QBs tend to stay conservative. They don't peck away at their ceiling enough to have the same major "ah-hah" steps.

I love when you clearly just make **** up with barely a hint of evidence.

underrated29
08-23-2017, 02:23 PM
This is Siemian's prove it year. He either does so, or Denver as a team moves on. Either to Lynch or some guy not yet on the roster.

:Broncos:



Why no love for Kelly or Sloter?

Dedhed
08-23-2017, 02:25 PM
http://bsndenver.com/heres-the-thing-about-trevor-siemian/

"What if I told you that you could have a quarterback who, in his first year as a starter, had a better passer rating than Cam Newton and Jameis Winston did, more yards than Russell Wilson and Joe Flacco did, more yards per attempt than Andrew Luck and Derek Carr did, more yards per game than Marcus Mariota and Dak Prescott did and more touchdowns than Carson Wentz and Teddy Bridgewater did?

You’d take him, right?

Well, Broncos fans, you got him.

That’s right, when you compare the 2016 stats of Trevor Siemian to every other first-year starter in the last decade, the Broncos’ quarterback ranks in the top third of just about any passing stat you can drum up. Ranking in the top 10 of many and in the top five of stats like yards per game, fourth-quarter comebacks and 300-yard games."

Hopefully Trevor turns into the next Brady, but this is a fluff piece extraordinaire. Given the cherry picked stats for each comparison we can assume Trevor had a worse stat line for each QB mentioned in the article but left out of any given category.

Example: He had a better passer rating than Cam and Winston. Why he didn't the author mention Flacco, Wentz, Bridgewater, Mariota, Carr, Luck, Prescott, and Wilson? Because they all had better Passer Ratings?

So in each category Trevor is better than 2 guys and worse than 8?

Not to mention that, I believe, Trevor is the only player who wasn't a rookie in his first year as a starter. Not exactly apples to apples here, folks.

Brohemoth
08-23-2017, 02:41 PM
I love when you clearly just make **** up with barely a hint of evidence.


You can be the happy-go-lucky homer all you want Son but the reality is this. If Broncos fans were given the choice right now between Siemian and 2nd year Cam, Winston, Wilson, Flacco, Luck, Carr, Mariota, Prescott, Wentz, or Bridgewater (without any knowledge of what they are today), who would they choose Siemian over? Bridgewater?

Another article pointing at bottom-line stats and ignoring any context behind them.

SonOfLe-loLang
08-23-2017, 02:54 PM
You can be the happy-go-lucky homer all you want Son but the reality is this. If Broncos fans were given the choice right now between Siemian and 2nd year Cam, Winston, Wilson, Flacco, Luck, Carr, Mariota, Prescott, Wentz, or Bridgewater (without any knowledge of what they are today), who would they choose Siemian over? Bridgewater?

Another article pointing at bottom-line stats and ignoring any context behind them.

I'm not a homer. I just know bull**** when I see it.

I've said many, many, many times that the chances of Trevor being a star is probably low. The chances of any QB being a star is low.

But wtf is your point about who we'd rather have? We don't have that choice. Your entire argument makes it sound like everyone says "Lock him up now! 5 year contract! give him the money!" No one is saying that. The REALITY is, since you used that term, is he's the best QB on our roster, is young, so therefore he can improve. He won the competition, when Elway probably tipped the scales, and, thus far in the PS, has shown improvement. He's been decisive, accurate, and has racked up first downs. This is undeniable.

So why do you keep bitching about him exactly?

Brohemoth
08-23-2017, 03:04 PM
So why do you keep b****ing about him exactly?

Honestly I think it's the long jersey sleeves.

UberBroncoMan
08-23-2017, 03:09 PM
Siemian haters are like Trump supporters. FAKE NEWS!

Keep politics out of this plz.

SonOfLe-loLang
08-23-2017, 03:17 PM
Honestly I think it's the long jersey sleeves.

lol, fair enough

Broncoandrew
08-23-2017, 03:33 PM
You can be the happy-go-lucky homer all you want Son but the reality is this. If Broncos fans were given the choice right now between Siemian and 2nd year Cam, Winston, Wilson, Flacco, Luck, Carr, Mariota, Prescott, Wentz, or Bridgewater (without any knowledge of what they are today), who would they choose Siemian over? Bridgewater?

Another article pointing at bottom-line stats and ignoring any context behind them.


I believe the article says he was in the top 10 in most passing stats for first year QBs. I would imagine he is mentioning names that are QBs people unquestionably would want.

Yes it isn't a guarantee of future success, it is however a good indicator he might not be as bad as you think. And I would bet if Lynch played like Siemian id last year you would be singing how great Lynch was as a starter.

Broncoandrew
08-23-2017, 03:35 PM
Here is a link to the data from the article.
http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showthread.php/606702-Comparing-Siemian-s-first-year-to-other-first-years

WoodMan
08-23-2017, 03:46 PM
Here's the thing about Seimian.......Broncos have two exceptional receivers as their #1 and #2. Seimian must be able to get the ball to them downfield. It will help the running game significantly if he can "soften up the safeties" with a deep ball threat. I didn't see it last year. Maybe McCoy will start to stretch the field. The dink and dunk offense limits Broncos WRs and I think hinders the running game. Go Seimian, it's your football now.

Action
08-23-2017, 03:53 PM
Here's the thing about Seimian.......Broncos have two exceptional receivers as their #1 and #2. Seimian must be able to get the ball to them downfield. It will help the running game significantly if he can "soften up the safeties" with a deep ball threat. I didn't see it last year. Maybe McCoy will start to stretch the field. The dink and dunk offense limits Broncos WRs and I think hinders the running game. Go Seimian, it's your football now.

Your running game is weak if it requires the passing game to make it work.

It's supposed to be the other way around.

BroncoBeavis
08-23-2017, 03:58 PM
Here's the thing about Seimian.......Broncos have two exceptional receivers as their #1 and #2. Seimian must be able to get the ball to them downfield. It will help the running game significantly if he can "soften up the safeties" with a deep ball threat. I didn't see it last year. Maybe McCoy will start to stretch the field. The dink and dunk offense limits Broncos WRs and I think hinders the running game. Go Seimian, it's your football now.

Lolz if you thought the problem with the run game last year was getting blown up by cheating safeties.

jacob2125
08-23-2017, 03:59 PM
It also has a lot to do with the offensive line. It's hard to get the ball downfield when you're getting hit after a couple seconds every play.

BroncosfanGuy
08-23-2017, 04:15 PM
Siemian has one year to prove he's a long term answer here. If he's flat this season he's gone. If he propels into top 15 or so QB maybe they keep him. But at what rate?

$705,000 is his base salary next yr

hipster.doofus
08-23-2017, 04:19 PM
http://bsndenver.com/heres-the-thing-about-trevor-siemian/

"What if I told you that you could have a quarterback who, in his first year as a starter, had a better passer rating than Cam Newton and Jameis Winston did, more yards than Russell Wilson and Joe Flacco did, more yards per attempt than Andrew Luck and Derek Carr did, more yards per game than Marcus Mariota and Dak Prescott did and more touchdowns than Carson Wentz and Teddy Bridgewater did?

You’d take him, right?

Well, Broncos fans, you got him.

That’s right, when you compare the 2016 stats of Trevor Siemian to every other first-year starter in the last decade, the Broncos’ quarterback ranks in the top third of just about any passing stat you can drum up. Ranking in the top 10 of many and in the top five of stats like yards per game, fourth-quarter comebacks and 300-yard games."



Replace "Trevor Siemian" and "2016" with "Brock Osweiler" and "2015", and most of your cherry picked statistics still holds true.

Kaylore
08-23-2017, 04:27 PM
Here's the thing about Seimian.......Broncos have two exceptional receivers as their #1 and #2. Seimian must be able to get the ball to them downfield. It will help the running game significantly if he can "soften up the safeties" with a deep ball threat. I didn't see it last year. Maybe McCoy will start to stretch the field. The dink and dunk offense limits Broncos WRs and I think hinders the running game. Go Seimian, it's your football now.

Haha. I can't decide if the funniest thing about this post is you arguing that Siemian needed to open up the running game with deep passes, or you trying to legitimately argue anyone behind our line last season would have time to throw such passes.

GoneFishin'
08-23-2017, 04:29 PM
http://bsndenver.com/heres-the-thing-about-trevor-siemian/

"What if I told you that you could have a quarterback who, in his first year as a starter, had a better passer rating than Cam Newton and Jameis Winston did, more yards than Russell Wilson and Joe Flacco did, more yards per attempt than Andrew Luck and Derek Carr did, more yards per game than Marcus Mariota and Dak Prescott did and more touchdowns than Carson Wentz and Teddy Bridgewater did?

You’d take him, right?

Well, Broncos fans, you got him.

That’s right, when you compare the 2016 stats of Trevor Siemian to every other first-year starter in the last decade, the Broncos’ quarterback ranks in the top third of just about any passing stat you can drum up. Ranking in the top 10 of many and in the top five of stats like yards per game, fourth-quarter comebacks and 300-yard games."

I like this guy a lot. He can play under center. He can play in shotgun. He's smart and can take what is taught on the chalkboard directly to the practice field which is something coaches love. And if you listen to him speak and the way he handles the media he sounds like an NFL QB. What he did last year with one of the worst o-lines for the Broncos in years and years, with no running game, as a 1st year starter was not bad at all. I think if we can pass protect half way decent and run the ball Siemian is going to be the least of our problems on offense.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/y83k98HmZD0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Kaylore
08-23-2017, 04:30 PM
Replace "Trevor Siemian" and "2016" with "Brock Osweiler" and "2015", and most of your cherry picked statistics still holds true.

Passer rating, total yards and yards per attempt aren't cherry picked stats. It's first year because that's literally all we have to compare him against. Should we compare him to Brees, Brady and Rogers right now in their careers?

And Brent absolutely was a key part of us getting home field and making it to the Super Bowl.

BroncoSojia
08-23-2017, 04:32 PM
I bet Buccaneer fans were making the same arguments about Mike Glennon after the 2013 season.....

GoneFishin'
08-23-2017, 04:33 PM
Siemian is not like Alex Smith.

The narrative is poor and people who buy into it aren't actually aware of what they're watching.

I agree, that narrative was created by people who hated Siemian before he ever took a snap as a Denver Bronco.

GoneFishin'
08-23-2017, 04:36 PM
It also has a lot to do with the offensive line. It's hard to get the ball downfield when you're getting hit after a couple seconds every play.

We struggled to run the ball even when CJ was healthy. Once he went down and Jano went down it was curtains on the offense.

BroncosfanGuy
08-23-2017, 04:36 PM
I bet Buccaneer fans were making the same arguments about Mike Glennon after the 2013 season.....

you think they were comparing Glennon to Winston's and Mariotta's rookie season?

http://www.wmal.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/238/2015/10/future.jpg

BroncoSojia
08-23-2017, 04:43 PM
you think they were comparing Glennon to Winston's and Mariotta's rookie season?

http://www.wmal.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/238/2015/10/future.jpg

No, comparing the face stats in his first year to other great QBs in their first year historically. Discounting actual talent and other statistics.

TonyR
08-23-2017, 04:46 PM
Example: He had a better passer rating than Cam and Winston. Why he didn't the author mention Flacco, Wentz, Bridgewater, Mariota, Carr, Luck, Prescott, and Wilson? Because they all had better Passer Ratings?

I'm far too lazy to look up all of these, but he did have a higher rating and QBR than Wentz.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2016/passing.htm

BroncosfanGuy
08-23-2017, 04:56 PM
No, comparing the face stats in his first year to other great QBs in their first year historically. Discounting actual talent and other statistics.

specifically, what actual talent and which statistics are we dollar treeing here?

hipster.doofus
08-23-2017, 04:58 PM
And Brent absolutely was a key part of us getting home field and making it to the Super Bowl.


Yes, he was.

And yet, he wasn't a very good QB. Somehow the Broncos made him look like a $72M man.

Guess Who
08-23-2017, 04:58 PM
Why no love for Kelly or Sloter?

what have they done?

Flashback
08-23-2017, 04:59 PM
"Here’s the cold, hard truth—if those were the stats of Paxton Lynch listed above, Broncos fans would be using them on a daily basis to try and convince the world that their former first-round pick is the next great. As for Siemian, well, most fans probably didn’t know those stats until just now."

Guess Who
08-23-2017, 04:59 PM
We struggled to run the ball even when CJ was healthy. Once he went down and Jano went down it was curtains on the offense.

Actually that is not true. Denver was in the top half of the league when CJ was healthy.

Dedhed
08-23-2017, 06:27 PM
I'm far too lazy to look up all of these, but he did have a higher rating and QBR than Wentz.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2016/passing.htm

QBR is not the same as passer rating.

BroncoInferno
08-23-2017, 06:35 PM
QBR is not the same as passer rating.

Wentz was lower in both traditional rating and QBR. He also had a lower YPA.

Drunken.Broncoholic2
08-23-2017, 06:44 PM
I agree, that narrative was created by people who hated Siemian before he ever took a snap as a Denver Bronco.



Who hated Siemian before he started? Everyone rejoiced it wasn't Sanchez

Agamemnon
08-23-2017, 06:50 PM
Who hated Siemian before he started? Everyone rejoiced it wasn't Sanchez

Scribe. :)

OABB
08-23-2017, 06:51 PM
This year is gonna be hilarious

TonyR
08-23-2017, 06:59 PM
Wentz was lower in both traditional rating and QBR. He also had a lower YPA.

Yes, which is what I said to begin with.

Agamemnon
08-23-2017, 07:03 PM
Siemian, a second year player, and Wentz, a rookie from a Division 1-AA school, are an apple and an orange. Stop comparing them. It's pointless.

GreatBronco16
08-23-2017, 07:09 PM
Meanwhile, Oz might be on the trading block again.:giggle:

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/20434654/cleveland-browns-name-deshone-kizer-starting-qb-source-says-trying-shop-brock-osweiler

bowtown
08-23-2017, 07:32 PM
Meanwhile, Oz might be on the trading block again.:giggle:

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/20434654/cleveland-browns-name-deshone-kizer-starting-qb-source-says-trying-shop-brock-osweiler

I didn't even realize they had trading blocks on the moon.

GoneFishin'
08-23-2017, 07:34 PM
Actually that is not true. Denver was in the top half of the league when CJ was healthy.

If we were, it never seemed impressive.

FireFly
08-23-2017, 07:35 PM
Keep politics out of this plz.

Friggin' lol. Sensitive much?? Hilarious!

FireFly
08-23-2017, 07:36 PM
Meanwhile, Oz might be on the trading block again.:giggle:

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/20434654/cleveland-browns-name-deshone-kizer-starting-qb-source-says-trying-shop-brock-osweiler

I honestly thought they'd cut him the same day they could and absorb the cap hit.

Dedhed
08-23-2017, 07:43 PM
Yes, which is what I said to begin with.

Ok

underrated29
08-23-2017, 08:19 PM
what have they done?

One has been called the best qb in the 2017 draft BY our HC.
One received the highest CFA contract we've ever given out.

Both are on our team and have a leg up familiarity vs drafting some qb next year.

itswutz4dinna
08-23-2017, 11:34 PM
Going off the eye test, the best young QB's of the last 15 years or so have been Rodgers, Luck, Wilson, and Siemian. His numbers actually look worse than his play, due to the system and line.

itswutz4dinna
08-23-2017, 11:37 PM
Actually that is not true. Denver was in the top half of the league when CJ was healthy.

CJ and Peyton Manning are probably the most underrated, by Denver fans, Broncos of all time. CJ has been Denver's offense since mid-2014.

Guess Who
08-23-2017, 11:47 PM
One has been called the best qb in the 2017 draft BY our HC.
One received the highest CFA contract we've ever given out.

Both are on our team and have a leg up familiarity vs drafting some qb next year.

Oh yeah well, Kelly will be on the team next year. The Broncos stated they are only keep two QBs on the roster this year. That means Slotter will be cut and possibly signed by another team.

Guess Who
08-23-2017, 11:49 PM
CJ and Peyton Manning are probably the most underrated, by Denver fans, Broncos of all time. CJ has been Denver's offense since mid-2014.

CJ needs to stay healthy. I think this years RBs could be the best group of RBs since Terrell Davis, Mike Anderson and Olandis Gary were all on the same team. Although, TD was injured.

gyldenlove
08-24-2017, 07:01 AM
Replace "Trevor Siemian" and "2016" with "Brock Osweiler" and "2015", and most of your cherry picked statistics still holds true.

I had a feeling it would be, cherrypicking is a sin.

Guess Who
08-24-2017, 07:19 AM
I have a better feeling about Trevor than I ever did about Oz. I think he can be a good starter. He just needs to stay healthy and that is something he has never done.

jmz313
08-24-2017, 07:21 AM
The internet, where everything is an opinion based Black and white argument. Middle ground is for suckers.

The chances that Trevor improves to some extent with more experience are greater than him getting worse with more experience. Alex Smith Didn't become solid Conservative game manager Alex Smith until like season 3 or 4. he was this kid isn't a starter and a liability Alex smith . Just like Brett Favre didn't become superstar gunslinger til about year 3. He was, holy **** Brett is gonna cost us the game again with a dumb ass INT Brett favre.

Does anyone really think the broncos wouldn't of made the playoffs last year with Alex smith at QB?

If VJ, McCoy and Musgrave are worth anything to Broncos. Trevor will see reasonable improvement.

jmz313
08-24-2017, 07:23 AM
I have a better feeling about Trevor than I ever did about Oz. I think he can be a good starter. He just needs to stay healthy and that is something he has never done.

If OZ stayed here... we'd of gone 11-5 last year. He made a move for Money and a chance at franchise fame and it blew up in his face. happens all the time in FA.

Guess Who
08-24-2017, 07:26 AM
If OZ stayed here... we'd of gone 11-5 last year. He made a move for Money and a chance at franchise fame and it blew up in his face. happens all the time in FA.

Maybe, he has been in the league now 5 years and is still a below average QB. Trevor is in his 3rd season and is a better QB right now.

The.Underdog
08-24-2017, 07:28 AM
I have a better feeling about Trevor than I ever did about Oz. I think he can be a good starter. He just needs to stay healthy and that is something he has never done.

Trevor has the basics down. Accurate, good footwork, good mechanics, and solid arm strength.

The accuracy is a key thing because nothing was/is more frustrating than watching Lynch/Oz airmail balls.

We will see if Trevor can gain more confidence and make better/more aggressive decisions in the pocket. Fontaines does a good job of outlining this.

jmz313
08-24-2017, 07:32 AM
Maybe, he has been in the league now 5 years and is still a below average QB. Trevor is in his 3rd season and is a better QB right now.

I get it but, i don't completely agree with it based on what i said previously. He just made a decision to go to a team with lessor Offensive talent both on the field and on the sideline/in booth. He looked pretty good in the 5-6 games he played for us in the SB run.

But i do like Trevor's upside on our roster right now.

Brohemoth
08-24-2017, 07:36 AM
Going off the eye test, the best young QB's of the last 15 years or so have been Rodgers, Luck, Wilson, and Siemian. His numbers actually look worse than his play, due to the system and line.

You could argue 40% of Siemian's stats came in two games which would suggest the numbers oversell him. And in those two games he had some wide open receivers, i.e. Sanders and Philips against Cinci and Fowler against KC.

BroncoBeavis
08-24-2017, 07:38 AM
40% of Siemian's stats came in two games

This is almost worse than Brian Fantana level statistics.

BroncoSojia
08-24-2017, 07:39 AM
Trevor has the basics down. Accurate, good footwork, good mechanics, and solid arm strength.

The accuracy is a key thing because nothing was/is more frustrating than watching Lynch/Oz airmail balls.

We will see if Trevor can gain more confidence and make better/more aggressive decisions in the pocket. Fontaines does a good job of outlining this.

His accuracy is horrible actually. I don't know why people keep repeating this.

Brohemoth
08-24-2017, 07:40 AM
This is almost worse than Brian Fantana level statistics.

7 / 18 = 40% :thumbs:

jmz313
08-24-2017, 07:40 AM
This is almost worse than Brian Fantana level statistics.

haha... Awesome!

Guess Who
08-24-2017, 07:43 AM
Trevor has the basics down. Accurate, good footwork, good mechanics, and solid arm strength.

The accuracy is a key thing because nothing was/is more frustrating than watching Lynch/Oz airmail balls.

We will see if Trevor can gain more confidence and make better/more aggressive decisions in the pocket. Fontaines does a good job of outlining this.

He also is really smart and has a tremendous work ethic.

Broncoandrew
08-24-2017, 07:46 AM
You could argue 40% of Siemian's stats came in two games which would suggest the numbers oversell him. And in those two games he had some wide open receivers, i.e. Sanders and Philips against Cinci and Fowler against KC.

Then again he had two and one half less games to generate his stats too.

Brohemoth
08-24-2017, 07:53 AM
Then again he had two and one half less games to generate his stats too.

I don't know if those games would have helped him. Remember the Sambrailo disaster? Beasley and the Atlanta defense were in the backfield every other play. Siemian would be eating food out of a straw with another interception or two. Jacksonville had a top 5 pass defense. Maybe a TD and an INT.

OABB
08-24-2017, 07:56 AM
I don't know if those games would have helped him. Remember the Sambrailo disaster? Beasley and the Atlanta defense were in the backfield every other play. Siemian would be eating food out of a straw with another interception or two. Jacksonville had a top 5 pass defense. Maybe a TD and an INT.

I think they are the same. Siemian is more solid and boring but has disastrous turnovers at the worst times. Lynch is erratic but takes better care if the ball and can pick up a first with his legs. I still feel like Siemian won't finish the year as a starter.

Brohemoth
08-24-2017, 08:09 AM
I think they are the same. Siemian is more solid and boring but has disastrous turnovers at the worst times. Lynch is erratic but takes better care if the ball and can pick up a first with his legs. I still feel like Siemian won't finish the year as a starter.

VJ suggested that if Lynch keeps improving at the same pace he could be the better player come Week 6 or 7, but they weren't willing to wait. I personally think neither will be the starter long-term. I just hate that we're wasting a season on Siemian for 2nd or 3rd place. He could surprise us but that's more optimism than probability. At least with Lynch you are trying to develop a long-term solution, or worst case realize you need to move on next offseason and have the draft position to do so.

Our great defense kind of screws us because it forces the Smiths and Ortons onto the field for the "win now" impression. Sometimes you have to take a step back before you can go forward. It feels like we're spinning wheels with Siemian, but we'll find out this year.

ScottXray
08-24-2017, 08:17 AM
VJ suggested that if Lynch keeps improving at the same pace he could be the better player come Week 6 or 7, but they weren't willing to wait. I personally think neither will be the starter long-term. I just hate that we're wasting a season on Siemian for 2nd or 3rd place. He could surprise us but that's more optimism than probability. At least with Lynch you are trying to develop a long-term solution, or worst case realize you need to move on next offseason and have the draft position to do so.

Our great defense kind of screws us because it forces the Smiths and Ortons onto the field for the "win now" impression. Sometimes you have to take a step back before you can go forward. It feels like we're spinning wheels with Siemian, but we'll find out this year.

BS. VJ said that maybe in 6 or 7 weeks Lynch might improve but that he was not ready now. He did not say Lynch was improving. He said he was a hard worker and that he expected him not to sluff off after losing the starters job. It was obvious from the presser that if Lynch was starting VJ knew the entire offense would have to be changed to fit Lynch .

Brohemoth
08-24-2017, 08:29 AM
BS. VJ said that maybe in 6 or 7 weeks Lynch might improve but that he was not ready now. He did not say Lynch was improving. He said he was a hard worker and that he expected him not to sluff off after losing the starters job. It was obvious from the presser that if Lynch was starting VJ knew the entire offense would have to be changed to fit Lynch .

Scream BS all you want but VJ said:

“Right now, I think Trevor is the best guy for our team,” Joseph said. “Now, if Lynch played this year, in Week 6 or 7, it could be different.”

http://www.denverpost.com/2017/08/23/broncos-quarterback-paxton-lynch-kiszla/

Like I said, it was a suggestion not a prediction.

The.Underdog
08-24-2017, 08:36 AM
His accuracy is horrible actually. I don't know why people keep repeating this.

While it's pre-season, the only incompletions he has had are throw aways. PFF says his adjusted completion percentage is 100%

So I'd say, it makes sense why people are saying this

Drunken.Broncoholic2
08-24-2017, 08:41 AM
While it's pre-season, the only incompletions he has had are throw aways. PFF says his adjusted completion percentage is 100%

So I'd say, it makes sense why people are saying this



Accurate passers throw all over the field. They don't suffer over the middle. He's accurate to a few parts of the field. If he can get his sub 60% into around 62% it will be an improvement.

Drunken.Broncoholic2
08-24-2017, 08:44 AM
Scream BS all you want but VJ said:

“Right now, I think Trevor is the best guy for our team,” Joseph said. “Now, if Lynch played this year, in Week 6 or 7, it could be different.”

http://www.denverpost.com/2017/08/23/broncos-quarterback-paxton-lynch-kiszla/

Like I said, it was a suggestion not a prediction.




Joseph keeps saying stupid ****. Why put this out there to the media? When a QB knows they have a short leash they tend to play even safer. He doesn't need to broadcast that short leash having a week 6-7 length. Siemian has more pressure on himself this year than last year.

OABB
08-24-2017, 08:46 AM
Joseph keeps saying stupid ****. Why put this out there to the media? When a QB knows they have a short leash they tend to play even safer. He doesn't need to broadcast that short leash having a week 6-7 length. Siemian has more pressure on himself this year than last year.

Sounds more like he thinks lynch is 6-7 games behind Siemian which is fair and probably accurate.

Jason in LA
08-24-2017, 08:46 AM
Some of the arguments for Orton were stats based. None of his numbers were bad. But none of them were good either. He was "not too shabby." That's kind of what I see Siemian as. He's going to put up good enough numbers to keep this argument going, but I don't think that he's going to do anything special.

Kaylore
08-24-2017, 08:50 AM
I actually hate whenever Lynch scrambles because he doesn't know what to do how VJ has to bring it up at the podium constantly defending him. "Lynch played good. He scrambled, which he should do." Just stop it. It sounds patronizing.

I still shake my head at him scrambling during seven on seven.

Brohemoth
08-24-2017, 08:54 AM
Some of the arguments for Orton were stats based. None of his numbers were bad. But none of them were good either. He was "not too shabby." That's kind of what I see Siemian as. He's going to put up good enough numbers to keep this argument going, but I don't think that he's going to do anything special.

Like I said, if Siemian throws 30 TDs then I will be his #1 fan. Even 27 or so likes Foles would do it.

People keep pointing to Manning and Brady as unimposing athletes who succeeded with their intelligence. They are anomalies but, whatever, they were throwing ~30 TDs by this point in their careers so I will give Siemian his chance to deliver. :~ohyah!:

ScottXray
08-24-2017, 08:54 AM
Sounds more like he thinks lynch is 6-7 games behind Siemian which is fair and probably accurate.
Agree with this . In VJs opinion Lynch needs at least 6 or 7 weeks more practice to be able to play at Siemians current level. I think that is a generous estimate. I doubt Lynch ever reaches Trevors mental aspect which is why he is losing out to him.

Samiwindr
08-24-2017, 08:55 AM
Actually that is not true. Denver was in the top half of the league when CJ was healthy.

Yep - we looked effective enough on offense when CJ was healthy and Trevor actually had time to throw. When CJ went down, Trevor was running for his life and eventually got injured.

SonOfLe-loLang
08-24-2017, 09:03 AM
VJ suggested that if Lynch keeps improving at the same pace he could be the better player come Week 6 or 7, but they weren't willing to wait. I personally think neither will be the starter long-term. I just hate that we're wasting a season on Siemian for 2nd or 3rd place. He could surprise us but that's more optimism than probability. At least with Lynch you are trying to develop a long-term solution, or worst case realize you need to move on next offseason and have the draft position to do so.

Our great defense kind of screws us because it forces the Smiths and Ortons onto the field for the "win now" impression. Sometimes you have to take a step back before you can go forward. It feels like we're spinning wheels with Siemian, but we'll find out this year.

lol, way to take VJ's political statement and make it gospel.

SonOfLe-loLang
08-24-2017, 09:04 AM
I actually hate whenever Lynch scrambles because he doesn't know what to do how VJ has to bring it up at the podium constantly defending him. "Lynch played good. He scrambled, which he should do." Just stop it. It sounds patronizing.

I still shake my head at him scrambling during seven on seven.

If he just picked his head up when he scrambles, it might be useful. He's really just Tebow right now.

BroncoBeavis
08-24-2017, 09:05 AM
lol, way to take VJ's political statement and make it gospel.

He might as well come out and say. "He is not a bust. He is not a bust. And, he is not a bust. Next question."

SonOfLe-loLang
08-24-2017, 09:07 AM
He might as well come out and say. "He is not a bust. He is not a bust. And, he is not a bust. Next question."

Seriously, what's he gonna say?

"Lynch sucks balls right now, but we hope he improves" ?

jacob2125
08-24-2017, 09:21 AM
If all it would take for Lynch to get to Siemian's level is 6-7 games and his ceiling is light years above TS's then he would be starting right now.

MplsBronco
08-24-2017, 09:25 AM
His accuracy is horrible actually. I don't know why people keep repeating this.

You don't watch much football, do you?

orange crusher
08-24-2017, 09:31 AM
Siemian, a second year player, and Wentz, a rookie from a Division 1-AA school, are an apple and an orange. Stop comparing them. It's pointless.

That same little school that has knocked off 6 straight FBS teams? 🙂

Drunken.Broncoholic2
08-24-2017, 09:34 AM
If all it would take for Lynch to get to Siemian's level is 6-7 games and his ceiling is light years above TS's then he would be starting right now.



Pretty much. I see it as if they come out flat and go 2-5 Lynch's name gets called week 8.


There is a lot of pressure on Siemian not to come out flat. 59% isn't going to cut it.

Drunken.Broncoholic2
08-24-2017, 09:35 AM
If all it would take for Lynch to get to Siemian's level is 6-7 games and his ceiling is light years above TS's then he would be starting right now.



Pretty much. I see it as if they come out flat and go 2-5 Lynch's name gets called week 8, with VJ hoping he's closed the gap a little.


There is a lot of pressure on Siemian not to come out flat. 59% isn't going to cut it.

SonOfLe-loLang
08-24-2017, 09:42 AM
Pretty much. I see it as if they come out flat and go 2-5 Lynch's name gets called week 8, with VJ hoping he's closed the gap a little.


There is a lot of pressure on Siemian not to come out flat. 59% isn't going to cut it.

He can improve on 59 percent. Quarterbacks, believe it or not, do improve their completion percentage.

OABB
08-24-2017, 09:44 AM
Agree with this . In VJs opinion Lynch needs at least 6 or 7 weeks more practice to be able to play at Siemians current level. I think that is a generous estimate. I doubt Lynch ever reaches Trevors mental aspect which is why he is losing out to him.

Agreed. I'd be willing to risk it though instead of wasting the year but yolo

Ragnar
08-24-2017, 09:49 AM
Pretty much. I see it as if they come out flat and go 2-5 Lynch's name gets called week 8, with VJ hoping he's closed the gap a little.


There is a lot of pressure on Siemian not to come out flat. 59% isn't going to cut it.

20/33 225 yards 2td's and 1 int is a 126.041 QBR.

Which is a 60.06% completion rating.

Which is Kinda where Siemian seems to hover in YPA and Completion percentage this year.

Which is all our D needs to be competitive.

BroncoSojia
08-24-2017, 09:56 AM
You don't watch much football, do you?

Do you?

Cian Fahey had him ranked 26th in accuracy percentage.

https://www.denverite.com/siemian-lynch-neither-asked-football-analyst-charted-17000-passes-last-year-broncos-qb-situation-40796/

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DGzmbaLXUAEBxMs.jpg:small

And PFF had him as the 3rd QB worst QB in terms of off target throws. But please, keep telling me that Siemian is accurate.

SonOfLe-loLang
08-24-2017, 09:58 AM
Do you?

Cian Fahey had him ranked 26th in accuracy percentage.

https://www.denverite.com/siemian-lynch-neither-asked-football-analyst-charted-17000-passes-last-year-broncos-qb-situation-40796/

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DGzmbaLXUAEBxMs.jpg:small

And PFF had him as the 3rd QB worst QB in terms of off target throws. But please, keep telling me that Siemian is accurate.

I think this probably has more to do with figuring out the game than natural accuracy issues. Even this PS (for what it's worth) he literally hasn't missed a pass. His few incompletions have either been throw always and one drop.

Drunken.Broncoholic2
08-24-2017, 10:01 AM
He can improve on 59 percent. Quarterbacks, believe it or not, do improve their completion percentage.



And a lot never do.

Drunken.Broncoholic2
08-24-2017, 10:03 AM
20/33 225 yards 2td's and 1 int is a 126.041 QBR.

Which is a 60.06% completion rating.

Which is Kinda where Siemian seems to hover in YPA and Completion percentage this year.

Which is all our D needs to be competitive.



He should be better than 60 this year, even if he only shows minimal improvement. If he's the same QB as last year it's not going to keep him the job.

Brohemoth
08-24-2017, 10:04 AM
I think this probably has more to do with figuring out the game than natural accuracy issues. Even this PS (for what it's worth) he literally hasn't missed a pass. His few incompletions have either been throw always and one drop.

Beyond the back shoulder throw to Sunshine, I can't think of any aggressive or contested throws that tested Siemian's accuracy.

I'd bet on you throwing some accurate checkdowns and curl routes Son.

Drunken.Broncoholic2
08-24-2017, 10:08 AM
Beyond the back shoulder throw to Sunshine, I can't think of any aggressive or contested throws that tested Siemian's accuracy.

I'd bet on you throwing some accurate checkdowns and curl routes Son.



He's got great accuracy at what he's comfortable with. He's not going to take risks in a QB competition. Now that he has the job I'd like to see him take some risks this next game. Over the middle has been a problem since college. Once he adds that to his game consistently then he takes it to the next level. No longer a 4 tier.

Agamemnon
08-24-2017, 10:10 AM
Now that the QB competition has ended in Lynch showing himself to worse than bad, is there a point to breaking down all of Siemian's flaws from last year? He's the best QB we have right now by a mile, and the only rational thing to do at this point is to hope he makes huge strides this year.

Brohemoth
08-24-2017, 10:11 AM
Now that the QB competition has ended in Lynch showing himself to worse than bad, is there a point to breaking down all of Siemian's flaws from last year? He's the best QB we have right now by a mile, and the only rational thing to do at this point is to hope he makes huge strides this year.

Better than Sloter?

Drunken.Broncoholic2
08-24-2017, 10:17 AM
Better than Sloter?


Mentally Siemian is far ahead of Sloter.

Brohemoth
08-24-2017, 10:18 AM
Seriously though, show me one great QB in recent history who is as scrawny as Siemian.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Report: Trevor Siemian has been named the Denver <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Broncos?src=hash">#Broncos</a> starting quarterback <a href="https://t.co/TJs9InV0li">https://t.co/TJs9InV0li</a> <a href="https://t.co/YOJW6ssrdv">pic.twitter.com/YOJW6ssrdv</a></p>&mdash; MileHighReport (@MileHighReport) <a href="https://twitter.com/MileHighReport/status/899687940204482561">August 21, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I'm surprised wind doesn't knock him over.

OABB
08-24-2017, 10:19 AM
Now that the QB competition has ended in Lynch showing himself to worse than bad, is there a point to breaking down all of Siemian's flaws from last year? He's the best QB we have right now by a mile, and the only rational thing to do at this point is to hope he makes huge strides this year.

I tried this optimistic approach for a few hours and it made me feel dirty.

Agamemnon
08-24-2017, 10:20 AM
Better than Sloter?

Probably. I mean he is a rookie. It would've been nice to at least see him get a shot at the job, but that ship has sailed.

Agamemnon
08-24-2017, 10:22 AM
I tried this optimistic approach for a few hours and it made me feel dirty.

Just as long as you realize you're basically rooting against the Broncos if you're rooting against their starting QB...

Brohemoth
08-24-2017, 10:23 AM
Just as long as you realize you're basically rooting against the Broncos if you're rooting against their starting QB...

Ag has been compromised. It's just me and OABB. :(

Jason in LA
08-24-2017, 10:23 AM
Now that the QB competition has ended in Lynch showing himself to worse than bad, is there a point to breaking down all of Siemian's flaws from last year? He's the best QB we have right now by a mile, and the only rational thing to do at this point is to hope he makes huge strides this year.

The criticism of Siemian will continue. The difference now is that he won't be compared to Lynch anymore. Lynch for now is an after thought and not part of the discussion. But Siemian's flaws are still very relevant.

2KBack
08-24-2017, 10:24 AM
Seriously though, show me one great QB in recent history who is as scrawny as Siemian.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Report: Trevor Siemian has been named the Denver <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Broncos?src=hash">#Broncos</a> starting quarterback <a href="https://t.co/TJs9InV0li">https://t.co/TJs9InV0li</a> <a href="https://t.co/YOJW6ssrdv">pic.twitter.com/YOJW6ssrdv</a></p>&mdash; MileHighReport (@MileHighReport) <a href="https://twitter.com/MileHighReport/status/899687940204482561">August 21, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I'm surprised wind doesn't knock him over.

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/f9/15/98/f915986675e35ffd9584a9f0646fc648--saints-football-football-players.jpg

Drunken.Broncoholic2
08-24-2017, 10:25 AM
Just as long as you realize you're basically rooting against the Broncos if you're rooting against their starting QB...



I put money on the Broncos regularly. If I rooted against him it's like wanting to throw money away.


I will say this place will explode if he comes out looking bad on Saturday.

Agamemnon
08-24-2017, 10:32 AM
The criticism of Siemian will continue. The difference now is that he won't be compared to Lynch anymore. Lynch for now is an after thought and not part of the discussion. But Siemian's flaws are still very relevant.

Yeah, but I guess I don't see the point until we see him in meaningful games in the new offense.

Agamemnon
08-24-2017, 10:37 AM
Ag has been compromised. It's just me and OABB. :(

Oh I'm still very skeptical. I just decided to give him a chance since he won the job fair and square.

SonOfLe-loLang
08-24-2017, 10:37 AM
Beyond the back shoulder throw to Sunshine, I can't think of any aggressive or contested throws that tested Siemian's accuracy.

I'd bet on you throwing some accurate checkdowns and curl routes Son.

Watch again. Those weren't all curls and check downs. In fact, I can think of an out route, skinny post, slant, and in just off the top of my head.

You can hate on him all you want, you can think he sucks (and you very well could be right, unlike you, i'm not silly enough to speak in absolutes when it comes to sports, or anything with an true unknown), but at least get the facts straight.

Brohemoth
08-24-2017, 10:39 AM
Watch again. Those weren't all curls and check downs. In fact, I can think of an out route, skinny post, slant, and in just off the top of my head.

You can hate on him all you want, you can think he sucks (and you very well could be right, unlike you, i'm not silly enough to speak in absolutes when it comes to sports, or anything with an true unknown), but at least get the facts straight.

I want 27 TDs and then I'll be the new chrissy.

bowtown
08-24-2017, 10:39 AM
Seriously though, show me one great QB in recent history who is as scrawny as Siemian.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Report: Trevor Siemian has been named the Denver <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Broncos?src=hash">#Broncos</a> starting quarterback <a href="https://t.co/TJs9InV0li">https://t.co/TJs9InV0li</a> <a href="https://t.co/YOJW6ssrdv">pic.twitter.com/YOJW6ssrdv</a></p>&mdash; MileHighReport (@MileHighReport) <a href="https://twitter.com/MileHighReport/status/899687940204482561">August 21, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I'm surprised wind doesn't knock him over.

http://sports.cbsimg.net/images/blogs/Tom-Brady-shirtless-02-15-15.jpg

SonOfLe-loLang
08-24-2017, 10:39 AM
I put money on the Broncos regularly. If I rooted against him it's like wanting to throw money away.


I will say this place will explode if he comes out looking bad on Saturday.

Probably. But even if he did and Lynch somehow plays well, what does that prove exactly? That some times QBs have bad days? If Siemian truly beat him out in TC (which seems to be the consensus) and outplayed him the first two games (unquestionable), then thats that.

Drunken.Broncoholic2
08-24-2017, 10:43 AM
Probably. But even if he did and Lynch somehow plays well, what does that prove exactly? That some times QBs have bad days? If Siemian truly beat him out in TC (which seems to be the consensus) and outplayed him the first two games (unquestionable), then thats that.



You don't have to worry about that 2nd part. Lynch is so far off from looking good in a preseason game.

SonOfLe-loLang
08-24-2017, 10:48 AM
I want 27 TDs and then I'll be the new chrissy.

I'm holding you to that!

Agamemnon
08-24-2017, 10:51 AM
You don't have to worry about that 2nd part. Lynch is so far off from looking good in a preseason game.

And that's what it really boils down to. We don't have any other options since Lynch is trash and the team clearly has no interest in giving Sloter a shot. Might as well just hope for the best at this point.

BroncoBeavis
08-24-2017, 10:53 AM
http://sports.cbsimg.net/images/blogs/Tom-Brady-shirtless-02-15-15.jpg

http://usatthebiglead.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/the-greatest-eli-manning-painting-ever.jpg?w=768&h=494

Broncoandrew
08-24-2017, 11:51 AM
http://usatthebiglead.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/the-greatest-eli-manning-painting-ever.jpg?w=768&h=494

I will never be able to unsee that. God I wish my wife hadn't bought eclipse glasses now.

Kaylore
08-24-2017, 12:09 PM
Siemian is 6'3 220. He's probably, at the end of camp, closer to 215. He's slight of build for a football QB, but some of you are commenting like he's one of the Cocoon aliens.

OABB
08-24-2017, 12:15 PM
Siemian is physically fine as a qb. Nothing spectacular but the physical specs of a qb aren't that important. A qb stands out with his mind and arm. Siemian has a good mind. His arm is average. Over all he is like a make a player on madden that's starts at a 61overall rating.

Cito Pelon
08-24-2017, 02:11 PM
A common theme is TS doesn't attack the middle of the field. Shanny used to say the middle is the hardest thing for young QB's. Not short middle, intermediate middle, the deeper crossers. I've played QB, and it damn sure is hard. Where are the LB's, the safeties, how deep/shallow are each?

The anticipation needed for a man cutting horizontally about 12-15 yds from the LOS is difficult. And you have to see it, you have to not only anticipate it, but you have to follow him with your eyes. Deep crossers, posts, those are predetermined, the QB has to see it all the way, and of course smart safeties see it also. You can try to draw the LB's shallow with underneath patterns, give the QB a lane to put mustard on it instead of lofting it over an LB.

It's generally pretty easy to throw the ball outside the hashes, you have one man against a CB who has to respect a deeper route, so you can look to the middle, turn your shoulders, set your feet and fire it to a predetermined point. Or if you see one-on-one all the way and your WR sees it the same way just throw it up for your WR against the CB.

It's just very difficult even for experienced QB's to be effective inside the hashes, plus that's where your WR's get hammered often no matter how beautifully you place the pass. Additionally, inside the hashes is where a good TE does favors for any QB. Unfortunately, Denver hasn't had that TE lately, still trying to find one.

The bottom line is last year TS not only was inexperienced, he didn't have a good TE to rely on inside the hashes, add in a leaky OL, yeah, you check down and try to get some positive yards. Better than forcing things between the hashes.

Of course, there's more that contributed to that ****ty offense. Hopefully they've cleaned some things up, we shall see.

BroncoBeavis
08-24-2017, 02:14 PM
A common theme is TS doesn't attack the middle of the field. Shanny used to say the middle is the hardest thing for young QB's. Not short middle, intermediate middle, the deeper crossers. I've played QB, and it damn sure is hard. Where are the LB's, the safeties, how deep/shallow are each?

The anticipation needed for a man cutting horizontally about 12-15 yds from the LOS is difficult. And you have to see it, you have to not only anticipate it, but you have to follow him with your eyes. Deep crossers, posts, those are predetermined, the QB has to see it all the way, and of course smart safeties see it also. You can try to draw the LB's shallow with underneath patterns, give the QB a lane to put mustard on it instead of lofting it over an LB.

It's generally pretty easy to throw the ball outside the hashes, you have one man against a CB who has to respect a deeper route, so you can look to the middle, turn your shoulders, set your feet and fire it to a predetermined point. Or if you see one-on-one all the way and your WR sees it the same way just throw it up for your WR against the CB.

It's just very difficult even for experienced QB's to be effective inside the hashes, plus that's where your WR's get hammered often no matter how beautifully you place the pass. Additionally, inside the hashes is where a good TE does favors for any QB. Unfortunately, Denver hasn't had that TE lately, still trying to find one.

The bottom line is last year TS not only was inexperienced, he didn't have a good TE to rely on inside the hashes, add in a leaky OL, yeah, you check down and try to get some positive yards. Better than forcing things between the hashes.

Of course, there's more that contributed to that ****ty offense. Hopefully they've cleaned some things up, we shall see.

This may be the post of Cito's career right here.

orange skier
08-24-2017, 02:35 PM
This may be the post of Cito's career right here.

Wow: strange times on the Mane: Cito has a good post, and Aga comes over to the Trevor Camp.........what next.......? Foneco and Chrissey getting married.......?

Drunken.Broncoholic2
08-24-2017, 02:58 PM
A common theme is TS doesn't attack the middle of the field. Shanny used to say the middle is the hardest thing for young QB's. Not short middle, intermediate middle, the deeper crossers. I've played QB, and it damn sure is hard. Where are the LB's, the safeties, how deep/shallow are each?

The anticipation needed for a man cutting horizontally about 12-15 yds from the LOS is difficult. And you have to see it, you have to not only anticipate it, but you have to follow him with your eyes. Deep crossers, posts, those are predetermined, the QB has to see it all the way, and of course smart safeties see it also. You can try to draw the LB's shallow with underneath patterns, give the QB a lane to put mustard on it instead of lofting it over an LB.

It's generally pretty easy to throw the ball outside the hashes, you have one man against a CB who has to respect a deeper route, so you can look to the middle, turn your shoulders, set your feet and fire it to a predetermined point. Or if you see one-on-one all the way and your WR sees it the same way just throw it up for your WR against the CB.

It's just very difficult even for experienced QB's to be effective inside the hashes, plus that's where your WR's get hammered often no matter how beautifully you place the pass. Additionally, inside the hashes is where a good TE does favors for any QB. Unfortunately, Denver hasn't had that TE lately, still trying to find one.

The bottom line is last year TS not only was inexperienced, he didn't have a good TE to rely on inside the hashes, add in a leaky OL, yeah, you check down and try to get some positive yards. Better than forcing things between the hashes.

Of course, there's more that contributed to that ****ty offense. Hopefully they've cleaned some things up, we shall see.




So northwestern had the same issues as Denver? Percentages in the 40s on that part of the field.

Siemian knows his weakness is over the middle and intermediate. Why you think he avoids them in TC/open competition? He won the job relying on his strengths. It's up to him to improve with confidence now that he doesn't have to worry about lynch

BroncoBeavis
08-24-2017, 03:00 PM
So northwestern had the same issues as Denver? Percentages in the 40s on that part of the field.

Siemian knows his weakness is over the middle and intermediate. Why you think he avoids them in TC/open competition? He won the job relying on his strengths. It's up to him to improve with confidence.

I have no stats to back this up, but just in casual observation, I'd say throwing through crowds over the middle is much less prevalent in the college game as it is the NFL overall. Less reason to risk it when you're just playing the matchups.

Drunken.Broncoholic2
08-24-2017, 03:03 PM
I have no stats to back this up, but just in casual observation, I'd say throwing through crowds over the middle is much less prevalent in the college game as it is the NFL overall. Less reason to risk it when you're just playing the matchups.


Well colleges in general have weird offenses. Out here in The PAC they go over the middle all the time. That platoon crap at northwestern didn't help.

This team desperately needs that part of the field to open up. It was bad last year and I don't believe McCoy will ignore it like Kubiak did.

BroncoBeavis
08-24-2017, 03:05 PM
Well colleges in general have weird offenses. Out here in The PAC they go over the middle all the time. That platoon crap at northwestern didn't help.

This team desperately needs that part of the field to open up. It was bad last year and I don't believe McCoy will ignore it like Kubiak did.

A running game to keep LB's honest will help. Almost as much as a functional tight end would.

kappys
08-24-2017, 03:24 PM
A running game to keep LB's honest will help. Almost as much as a functional tight end would.

QB's that are good tend to make it clear their 2nd season. With what is likely to be a functional O-line and improved running game this is really Trevor's chance to prove whether he is a backup or a starter.

As for Lynch there is no point in wanting him to start. There is no upside when you can't master even basic aspects of the position.

Atwater His Ass
08-24-2017, 03:26 PM
A running game to keep LB's honest will help. Almost as much as a functional tight end would.

And an improved OL. When Garcia loses out to Barbre, 4 new OL starters. Hopefully it's an improvement. The wholesale changes/shuffling didn't work last year.

BroncoBeavis
08-24-2017, 03:26 PM
QB's that are good tend to make it clear their 2nd season. With what is likely to be a functional O-line and improved running game this is really Trevor's chance to prove whether he is a backup or a starter.

As for Lynch there is no point in wanting him to start. There is no upside when you can't master even basic aspects of the position.

This is absolutely do or die time for him. His contract window virtually guarantees it. At least as far as the Broncos are concerned.

Drunken.Broncoholic2
08-24-2017, 03:28 PM
A running game to keep LB's honest will help. Almost as much as a functional tight end would.



D Henderson time.


Make DCs have to gameplan for this kid.

Cito Pelon
08-24-2017, 04:09 PM
So northwestern had the same issues as Denver? Percentages in the 40s on that part of the field.

Siemian knows his weakness is over the middle and intermediate. Why you think he avoids them in TC/open competition? He won the job relying on his strengths. It's up to him to improve with confidence now that he doesn't have to worry about lynch

Frankly, I doubt there is any QB in the NFL that has confidence intermediate to deep between the hashes unless they have a good TE. NFL D's try to eliminate the middle unless it's short and then tackle after the completion.

Another thing, even with a good between the hashes TE, NFL O's need a good slot WR, a quick throw then some RAC. Cole Beasley caught 75 passes last year for Dak Prescott for 11.1 yds per reception.

Last year not only Denver didn't have a reliable TE between the hashes, they didn't have a slot WR.

The QB won't have success with only Sanders and DT, we'll see if Elway has improved the weapons a QB needs. Elway has been pretty woeful improving the weapons around the QB. Barely getting a real OL together now.

Enter The Dragon
08-24-2017, 11:21 PM
If we're not 3-1 after the first 4 games, things will start to get interesting. Or we can always hope to get lucky in the draft.

kappys
08-25-2017, 12:16 AM
If we're not 3-1 after the first 4 games, things will start to get interesting. Or we can always hope to get lucky in the draft.

First 4 games are Chargers, Cowboys, @bills, Raiders. 3-1 is doable but needs an upset against either Cowboys or Raiders to get there

ZONA
08-25-2017, 12:29 AM
http://bsndenver.com/heres-the-thing-about-trevor-siemian/

"What if I told you that you could have a quarterback who, in his first year as a starter, had a better passer rating than Cam Newton and Jameis Winston did, more yards than Russell Wilson and Joe Flacco did, more yards per attempt than Andrew Luck and Derek Carr did, more yards per game than Marcus Mariota and Dak Prescott did and more touchdowns than Carson Wentz and Teddy Bridgewater did?

You’d take him, right?

Well, Broncos fans, you got him.

That’s right, when you compare the 2016 stats of Trevor Siemian to every other first-year starter in the last decade, the Broncos’ quarterback ranks in the top third of just about any passing stat you can drum up. Ranking in the top 10 of many and in the top five of stats like yards per game, fourth-quarter comebacks and 300-yard games."


If you told me all of that................and then said afterwards "oh yeah, and we forgot to mention he only got 1/3 of the first team reps in training camp, and then played behind one of the NFL's worst OL's and running games", then of course, you'd say hey, we might have something here. You would definitely be optimistic. Then throw in the fact he's got a 1st round draft pick that the GM desperately wants to win the job and it makes it even more remarkable.

Again, the biggest 'perceived' problem has been the average fan who expects 1st year starters to look like Peyton, Drew or Tom. Most NFL QB's who 'make it', usually see pretty substantial progress in year 2 of starting. The same could be same for many positions. Then of course, you have all the bleeding hearts who want to say, oh yeah, last year was his 2nd year. OK, whatever. If you call being buried on the bench as a 3rd string QB only getting scout team reps a 1st year, then you're not really making any sense.

Trevor deserves the chance (he's earned it). Lynch isn't ready, he's a bigger project than most people here wanted to admit.

ZONA
08-25-2017, 12:37 AM
Siemian is 6'3 220. He's probably, at the end of camp, closer to 215. He's slight of build for a football QB, but some of you are commenting like he's one of the Cocoon aliens.

One of the greatest to ever play QB was 6'1 200lbs, he went by the name of Joe Montana. He didn't have a monster arm either. He was so good because of what he had between the ears.

Breez is smaller too, and again, one of the best ever. Wilson isn't a big QB. Why are so many guys stuck on this. I'll take a guy who knows where and when to throw it with good accuracy over some giant who's indecisive, late, and can't read defenses.

ZONA
08-25-2017, 12:41 AM
Here's the thing about Seimian.......Broncos have two exceptional receivers as their #1 and #2. Seimian must be able to get the ball to them downfield. It will help the running game significantly if he can "soften up the safeties" with a deep ball threat. I didn't see it last year. Maybe McCoy will start to stretch the field. The dink and dunk offense limits Broncos WRs and I think hinders the running game. Go Seimian, it's your football now.

In order to go deep, you need an OL that can block. Trevor didn't have that last year. Or.....you need a great running game to bring those defenders up to open the long passes. Guess what, Trevor didn't have a running game either.

Not to mention 1st year starting QB's don't let it fly all over the place too often. Everything is fast for them, the game needs to slow down and it usually does 2nd to 3rd year of starting.

The thing that is really unbelievable is how fans came to expect young QB's to look like MVP's in year 1 of starting.

Enter The Dragon
08-25-2017, 12:46 AM
Same excuses for Brian Griese. "He needs all this help!" Well Semen, is an All World D considered enough "help" until you become unretarded?

Enter The Dragon
08-25-2017, 12:51 AM
People think he's Joe ****ing Montana. Yes, he is all we got...a damn bologna sandwich when you love steak. I get it. I'm rooting for him to be a badass, but until then I'm hoping for some serious luck in the draft.

ZONA
08-25-2017, 12:51 AM
Same excuses for Brian Griese. "He needs all this help!" Well Semen, is an All World D considered enough "help" until you become unretarded?

Having the worst OL and running game and being a 1st year starter is not an excuse. Those are just facts. Sounds like you're kinda butthurt.

Enter The Dragon
08-25-2017, 12:53 AM
Nah, seen this movie a few times before sir. I know how it ends

Guess Who
08-25-2017, 04:46 AM
First 4 games are Chargers, Cowboys, @bills, Raiders. 3-1 is doable but needs an upset against either Cowboys or Raiders to get there

Upset?? Denver will be favored in both games.

Brohemoth
08-25-2017, 05:23 AM
Upset?? Denver will be favored in both games.

A team that finished third place in its division is favored over two playoff teams? Doubt it.

2KBack
08-25-2017, 05:35 AM
Same excuses for Brian Griese. "He needs all this help!" Well Semen, is an All World D considered enough "help" until you become unretarded?

No one made any of those excuses for Griese, he started his career with one of the most talented offenses in history. The o-line that just dominated 1998, a HOF RB, A HOF TE, A borderline HOF WR.

Who judges a QB based on the quality of the Defense on the team?

Enter The Dragon
08-25-2017, 05:38 AM
The narrative was that Griese could be successful if they surrounded him with talent, which yes he def had some already. The same is being said about Semen. Running game, oline, ad nauseam...

DivineLegion
08-25-2017, 06:01 AM
The narrative was that Griese could be successful if they surrounded him with talent, which yes he def had some already. The same is being said about Semen. Running game, oline, ad nauseam...

I think the only thing people are hoping for is an offensive line that can give the kid time to throw the ball. We've had a few of the worst offensive lines in franchise history over the last three years, and you just can't expect a ton of success with ****ty blocking.

Guess Who
08-25-2017, 06:05 AM
A team that finished third place in its division is favored over two playoff teams? Doubt it.

In Denver..... yep

Agamemnon
08-25-2017, 06:22 AM
The narrative was that Griese could be successful if they surrounded him with talent, which yes he def had some already. The same is being said about Semen. Running game, oline, ad nauseam...

Griese was a headcase. That was the main reason he failed.

jmz313
08-25-2017, 06:34 AM
In Denver..... yep

It will be close Vegas wise but assuming the raiders and Cowboys start this season like the finished last... they will be -2.5->-4 point faves.

MplsBronco
08-25-2017, 06:42 AM
The circle jerk of Siemian haters is so perverse in here.

stagger lee
08-25-2017, 06:52 AM
Griese was on a good trajectory until he tore his throwing shoulder all to pieces. I honestly thought we had something in him, and then the wheels came off

Atwater His Ass
08-25-2017, 07:08 AM
Griese was on a good trajectory until he tore his throwing shoulder all to pieces. I honestly thought we had something in him, and then the wheels came off

And still beat the Raiders on MNF with that separated shoulder.

BroncoSojia
08-25-2017, 07:18 AM
People have talked themselves into believing that Trevor Siemian will be a franchise QB. Hilarious!

Not sure why I'm even surprised.

ScottXray
08-25-2017, 07:31 AM
In Denver..... yep

I think that it will depend on the previous games and what vegas thinks. I'd think that the line will be 1-2 points on Dallas and 3-4 on the Raiders. If Denver dominates against Bills and Chargers we will be the favorite , but close games there = underdog.

Old Coyote
08-25-2017, 07:32 AM
People have talked themselves into believing that Trevor Siemian will be a franchise QB. Hilarious!

Not sure why I'm even surprised.

Other's have talked themselves into believing Lynch will be.
http://i62.tinypic.com/2r71rw2.jpg

Drunken.Broncoholic2
08-25-2017, 07:34 AM
People have talked themselves into believing that Trevor Siemian will be a franchise QB. Hilarious!

Not sure why I'm even surprised.




It's escelerated over the past week off one back up defense performance. I've actually seen posters say they'd take him over Carr and Mariota.. Ha!

Let's see what he can do this week before claiming SBs.

OABB
08-25-2017, 07:40 AM
People have talked themselves into believing that Trevor Siemian will be a franchise QB. Hilarious!

Not sure why I'm even surprised.

It's Stockholm Syndrome

Brohemoth
08-25-2017, 07:43 AM
People have talked themselves into believing that Trevor Siemian will be a franchise QB. Hilarious!

Not sure why I'm even surprised.

It's human nature. People want to feel good even if it means painting **** gold.

These are the same fans who thought Cutler was the chosen one and Orton was the next big thing when he was on pace for Marino's yardage record in 2010.

Agamemnon
08-25-2017, 07:53 AM
People have talked themselves into believing that Trevor Siemian will be a franchise QB. Hilarious!

Not sure why I'm even surprised.

Siemian fans are nuts. That said, might as well hope they are right because we are stuck with him this season.

Jason in LA
08-25-2017, 07:56 AM
Other's have talked themselves into believing Lynch will be.
http://i62.tinypic.com/2r71rw2.jpg

Seemed like most of the Lynch supporters were hoping that he would live up to his potential, and backed off of that after his training camp and preseason performances. Some of the Seimian supporters are acting like he has already become one of the better QBs in the league.

BroncoBeavis
08-25-2017, 07:59 AM
Seemed like most of the Lynch supporters were hoping that he would live up to his potential, and backed off of that after his training camp and preseason performances. Some of the Seimian supporters are acting like he has already become one of the better QBs in the league.

He picked up a new offense and seems to be processing it much more capably than his primary competitor.

It's a check on the checklist. Not any guarantee of success. But it's a critical check on that list.

Agamemnon
08-25-2017, 08:01 AM
Seemed like most of the Lynch supporters were hoping that he would live up to his potential, and backed off of that after his training camp and preseason performances. Some of the Seimian supporters are acting like he has already become one of the better QBs in the league.

Lynch has never really had much of a devoted fanbase. Siemian on the other hand is Rudy to a lot of people.

BroncoBeavis
08-25-2017, 08:05 AM
Lynch has never really had much of a devoted fanbase. Siemian on the other hand is Rudy to a lot of people.

Lolz. That's totally not true.

BroncoSojia
08-25-2017, 08:09 AM
Lolz. That's totally not true.


Most of his "fans" backed off when they realized he couldn't play.

Jason in LA
08-25-2017, 08:13 AM
He picked up a new offense and seems to be processing it much more capably than his primary competitor.

It's a check on the checklist. Not any guarantee of success. But it's a critical check on that list.

Siemian did not have a good training camp. He was better than Lynch, but they both were bad. Hopefully the theory that it's because he was going against the best pass defense in the league is true. But it's not like either of them were lighting up the second team defense either.

OABB
08-25-2017, 08:14 AM
Most of his "fans" backed off when they realized he couldn't play.

Which is why we are better than Siemian fans

Jason in LA
08-25-2017, 08:14 AM
Lolz. That's totally not true.

Which part isn't true?

Seems like a lot of folks like Siemian's underdog story.

OABB
08-25-2017, 08:18 AM
Lolz. That's totally not true.

It's very true. If Siemian was a first rounder he would be more hated than Moreno was. Siemian fans are obsessed with draft status.

BroncoBeavis
08-25-2017, 08:23 AM
It's very true. If Siemian was a first rounder he would be more hated than Moreno was. Siemian fans are obsessed with draft status.

This makes no sense at all. Siemien played right in line with what you'd expect for any new starter in the league. No, he didn't come out with a cannon. But the importance of that one trait is far overestimated in the modern NFL.

Brohemoth
08-25-2017, 08:28 AM
It's very true. If Siemian was a first rounder he would be more hated than Moreno was. Siemian fans are obsessed with draft status.

Yup. And even in an alternate universe where Siemian went to a big school, stayed healthy, and threw for 30+ TDs, he doesn't have the makeup to be a 1st rounder. His draft ceiling would be like Kirk Cousins or Colt McCoy.

He is a conservative quarterback who is injury prone and has a tiny frame. That stuff doesn't change.

BroncoBeavis
08-25-2017, 08:29 AM
Which part isn't true?

Seems like a lot of folks like Siemian's underdog story.

I'd say most people likely came out of the gates hoping our new 1st rounder would be a long term superstar. Prior to the Broz implosion, virtually nobody seriously considered Siemien being anything more than camp fodder or a backup (at best)

And even after, most of us last offseason spent most our time praying that Lynch would be a stud out of the gates so we weren't subjected to Dirty. But then Lynch wasn't close to ready, and Buttfumble did what he do.

So Trevor was really more of a "last hope" scenario than a "Rudy." We were lucky to have him because the alternatives last year were atrocious. And the main alternative this year doesn't look a whole lot better than he did last.

In other words, most of us simply became resigned to Trevor, and were pleasantly surprised in what we saw from a near Mr Irrelevant.

Jason in LA
08-25-2017, 08:41 AM
I'd say most people likely came out of the gates hoping our new 1st rounder would be a long term superstar. Prior to the Broz implosion, virtually nobody seriously considered Siemien being anything more than camp fodder or a backup (at best)

And even after, most of us last offseason spent most our time praying that Lynch would be a stud out of the gates so we weren't subjected to Dirty. But then Lynch wasn't close to ready, and Buttfumble did what he do.

So Trevor was really more of a "last hope" scenario than a "Rudy." We were lucky to have him because the alternatives last year were atrocious. And the main alternative this year doesn't look a whole lot better than he did last.

In other words, most of us simply became resigned to Trevor, and were pleasantly surprised in what we saw from a near Mr Irrelevant.

Lucky to have Siemian last year? They missed the playoffs, partially because of poor QB play. It wasn't all his fault because the O line was so bad, but the QB play was still terrible on its own.

I don't remember there being any hope or expectations for Lynch to contribute last year. It was well known that he was going to be a project player, and he was never a part of the QB competition last year. That was made clear before training camp started.

If you want to call Siemian the last hope, fine, but he's still Rudy. lol

BroncoBeavis
08-25-2017, 08:43 AM
Lucky to have Siemian last year? They missed the playoffs, partially because of poor QB play. It wasn't all his fault because the O line was so bad, but the QB play was still terrible on its own.

I don't remember there being any hope or expectations for Lynch to contribute last year. It was well known that he was going to be a project player, and he was never a part of the QB competition last year. That was made clear before training camp started.

If you want to call Siemian the last hope, fine, but he's still Rudy. lol

Let me guess, you were one of the ones hoping Dirty was taking us to the playoffs?

SonOfLe-loLang
08-25-2017, 08:44 AM
Siemian did not have a good training camp. He was better than Lynch, but they both were bad. Hopefully the theory that it's because he was going against the best pass defense in the league is true. But it's not like either of them were lighting up the second team defense either.

This might be true, but you keep bringing up this point like you were there. In reality, we have no clue how his training camp was. All we know was there was a collection of tweets that made the competition seem a lot closer than it was. All we saw was his preseason games, which were both positive.

So hopefully he's improved.

Drunken.Broncoholic2
08-25-2017, 08:52 AM
This might be true, but you keep bringing up this point like you were there. In reality, we have no clue how his training camp was. All we know was there was a collection of tweets that made the competition seem a lot closer than it was. All we saw was his preseason games, which were both positive.

So hopefully he's improved.



When reports came out that Sanchez wasn't having a good camp I believed it. When they said Lynch lost it once the pads came on I believe. They said Siemian looks the same or actually has regressed a bit ill believe it. I saw nothing from his only time against a 1st team defense(game 1) that looked anything special/improvement. I saw the same guy. Game 2 he went up against scrubs and looked better.

This is why gifting Lynch that game 2 start was stupid. He did nothing in camp to warrant that start. The coaches stripped Siemian an opportunity to go against another starting defense. Everyone knew Lynch is lost after TC/game 1. How about using game 2 to find out more about the guy you already knew they were picking?


Right now, It's safe to say both aren't good, while only one of them is good(Siemian) against scrubs.

MamaMia
08-25-2017, 08:53 AM
I'd say most people likely came out of the gates hoping our new 1st rounder would be a long term superstar. Prior to the Broz implosion, virtually nobody seriously considered Siemien being anything more than camp fodder or a backup (at best)

And even after, most of us last offseason spent most our time praying that Lynch would be a stud out of the gates so we weren't subjected to Dirty. But then Lynch wasn't close to ready, and Buttfumble did what he do.

So Trevor was really more of a "last hope" scenario than a "Rudy." We were lucky to have him because the alternatives last year were atrocious. And the main alternative this year doesn't look a whole lot better than he did last.

In other words, most of us simply became resigned to Trevor, and were pleasantly surprised in what we saw from a near Mr Irrelevant.

Accurate post but it will fall on def ears. the "i wont quit you, Paxton" crowd likes to hang onto the idea that people love Siemian when its really just Paxton is dog s.hit.

BroncoBeavis
08-25-2017, 09:00 AM
Accurate post but it will fall on def ears. the "i wont quit you, Paxton" crowd likes to hang onto the idea that people love Siemian when its really just Paxton is dog s.hit.

And anyone expecting playoffs last year, regardless of who was QB was just homering. I think it's reasonable to hope for enough growth in Trevor this year for some playoff action. If not, he's probably done (sans some unforeseen defensive implosion) But if Lynch looked like he'd turned a corner this offseason and we'd made the switch, I'd be pretty much writing off the playoffs once again.

People with their rook QB title expectations are a bit much.

Drunken.Broncoholic2
08-25-2017, 09:00 AM
Accurate post but it will fall on def ears. the "i wont quit you, Paxton" crowd likes to hang onto the idea that people love Siemian when its really just Paxton is dog s.hit.



I see one person clinging to Lynch. Coldcity

Drunken.Broncoholic2
08-25-2017, 09:02 AM
And anyone expecting playoffs last year, regardless of who was QB was just homering. I think it's reasonable to hope for enough growth in Trevor this year for some playoff action. If not, he's probably done (sans some unforeseen defensive implosion) But if Lynch looked like he'd turned a corner this offseason and we'd made the switch, I'd be pretty much writing off the playoffs once again.

People with their rook QB title expectations are a bit much.



Last year most around here blasted anyone thinking it was 8 wins. Even 10 wins got heat. Expectations were high last year, no idea why people thought that. Zona flipped out on the thought of 8 wins.


This year there's a lot more realistic predictions aside from a Super Bowl win thread.

BroncoBeavis
08-25-2017, 09:03 AM
I see one person clinging to Lynch. Coldcity

Meanwhile, most of us are only clinging to the USS Siemen because every other ship on the water already went down.

Not sure what preemptively abandoning this last ship in the name of someday maybe being proven message-board-right is really supposed to accomplish.

Drunken.Broncoholic2
08-25-2017, 09:04 AM
Meanwhile, most of us are only clinging to the USS Siemen because every other ship on the water already went down.

Not sure what preemptively abandoning this last ship in the name of someday maybe being proven message-board-right is really supposed to accomplish.

Siemian is all we have. For now.

Agamemnon
08-25-2017, 09:05 AM
Lolz. That's totally not true.

Sure it is. Name some Lynch fanboys for me please.

BroncoBeavis
08-25-2017, 09:07 AM
Last year most around here blasted anyone thinking it was 8 wins. Even 10 wins got heat. Expectations were high last year, no idea why people thought that. Zona flipped out on the thought of 8 wins.

People were high on an all time defense. Honestly if the run D doesn't fall off, we probably would've still made it. And even then 10-6 still wasn't that far off.

This year there's a lot more realistic predictions aside from a Super Bowl win thread.

Some guys get a little excited when one of their swimmers goes for the gold.

BroncoBeavis
08-25-2017, 09:09 AM
Sure it is. Name some Lynch fanboys for me please.

You're really gonna try to get away this fast.

Brohemoth
08-25-2017, 09:09 AM
Meanwhile, most of us are only clinging to the USS Siemen because every other ship on the water already went down.

Not sure what preemptively abandoning this last ship in the name of someday maybe being proven message-board-right is really supposed to accomplish.

We can always give Siemian the Orton treatment as a last resort. Billboards, blimps, boos, and some crazy fans threatening to break his legs. Siemian gets benched and then either Lynch develops or preferably Sloter time.

MamaMia
08-25-2017, 09:10 AM
Meanwhile, most of us are only clinging to the USS Siemen because every other ship on the water already went down.

Not sure what preemptively abandoning this last ship in the name of someday maybe being proven message-board-right is really supposed to accomplish.

At the end of the day it really doesnt matter. If we are winning convincingly, people will be happy. if we are winning close ones, those that dont like Siemian will call em win-losses, and god help us all if we are losing.

SonOfLe-loLang
08-25-2017, 09:13 AM
When reports came out that Sanchez wasn't having a good camp I believed it. When they said Lynch lost it once the pads came on I believe. They said Siemian looks the same or actually has regressed a bit ill believe it. I saw nothing from his only time against a 1st team defense(game 1) that looked anything special/improvement. I saw the same guy. Game 2 he went up against scrubs and looked better.

This is why gifting Lynch that game 2 start was stupid. He did nothing in camp to warrant that start. The coaches stripped Siemian an opportunity to go against another starting defense. Everyone knew Lynch is lost after TC/game 1. How about using game 2 to find out more about the guy you already knew they were picking?


Right now, It's safe to say both aren't good, while only one of them is good(Siemian) against scrubs.

Why did he play poorly that first game? He got first downs. He made a nice 3rd down throw. His first drive was undone by a penalty. His third drive was undone by Taylor not going forward, and a great typical broncos 3rd and 1 run stuff, and his third (the one that probably was his fault), was probably just a good play by the D.

His only incompletions this entire preseason were either throwaways or drops. He's looked decisive and accurate with each drop back.

So yes, he may not have improved. He might suck. But pointing to his preseason performance is some weird confirmation bias.

And your Sanchez/Lynch TC report comparison is stupid because they also sucked in their PS games.

SonOfLe-loLang
08-25-2017, 09:14 AM
We can always give Siemian the Orton treatment as a last resort. Billboards, blimps, boos, and some crazy fans threatening to break his legs. Siemian gets benched and then either Lynch develops or preferably Sloter time.

I don't think anyone likes lynch like they like Tebow.

Agamemnon
08-25-2017, 09:16 AM
You're really gonna try to get away this fast.

I have no idea what this means.

Jason in LA
08-25-2017, 09:19 AM
Let me guess, you were one of the ones hoping Dirty was taking us to the playoffs?

I have no idea why you made that leap.

Sanchez wasn't signed to be the starter, or to even compete for the starting job. He was signed to be the backup while they were searching for a guy to be the starter. When that plan failed, they drafted Lynch. Sanchez and Siemian ended up competing for the starting job because the Broncos were unable to get a starting QB. They were screwed with either Sanchez or Siemian. Seeing what Sanchez turned out to be in training camp and preseason games, the right decision was to go with Siemian.

Agamemnon
08-25-2017, 09:20 AM
Why did he play poorly that first game? He got first downs. He made a nice 3rd down throw. His first drive was undone by a penalty. His third drive was undone by Taylor not going forward, and a great typical broncos 3rd and 1 run stuff, and his third (the one that probably was his fault), was probably just a good play by the D.

His only incompletions this entire preseason were either throwaways or drops. He's looked decisive and accurate with each drop back.

So yes, he may not have improved. He might suck. But pointing to his preseason performance is some weird confirmation bias.

And your Sanchez/Lynch TC report comparison is stupid because they also sucked in their PS games.

When I went back and watched Siemian's play so far this preseason with my Siemian-hater glasses off, this is pretty much what I saw. He's looked pretty good in the preseason.

Jason in LA
08-25-2017, 09:22 AM
This might be true, but you keep bringing up this point like you were there. In reality, we have no clue how his training camp was. All we know was there was a collection of tweets that made the competition seem a lot closer than it was. All we saw was his preseason games, which were both positive.

So hopefully he's improved.

I read the articles and listened to The Fan and Orange and Blue 760. Most of the reports were similar.

Agamemnon
08-25-2017, 09:22 AM
I don't think anyone likes lynch like they like Tebow.

That's an understatement.

BroncoBeavis
08-25-2017, 09:23 AM
I have no idea why you made that leap.

Sanchez wasn't signed to be the starter, or to even compete for the starting job. He was signed to be the backup while they were searching for a guy to be the starter. When that plan failed, they drafted Lynch. Sanchez and Siemian ended up competing for the starting job because the Broncos were unable to get a starting QB. They were screwed with either Sanchez or Siemian. Seeing what Sanchez turned out to be in training camp and preseason games, the right decision was to go with Siemian.

You said last year was a failure because no playoffs. Who did you think was taking us to the playoffs?

If Lynch had started and failed to make the playoffs, would that have meant auto-bust?

Agamemnon
08-25-2017, 09:24 AM
You said last year was a failure because no playoffs. Who did you think was taking us to the playoffs?

If Lynch had started and failed to make the playoffs, would that have meant auto-bust?

We easily make the playoffs last year if the run defense isn't so bad. It's like people forget how bad our QB play was the year we won it all...

BroncoBeavis
08-25-2017, 09:25 AM
I have no idea why you made that leap

I just don't think that Siemian is that guy. Lynch isn't ready. Sanchez isn't a good option, but I'd take him over the other two, which doesn't really mean that he'd be good.

Oof.

SonOfLe-loLang
08-25-2017, 09:25 AM
I read the articles and listened to The Fan and Orange and Blue 760. Most of the reports were similar.

I just think its dumb to try to get a real opinion over something you can't see. Or how they are viewing it, what their bias is. I'm not saying your overall point will wind up being wrong, chances are Siemian won't be any good, i just wouldn't use tweets and radio reports of PRACTICE as some definitive evidence of anything.

BroncoBeavis
08-25-2017, 09:25 AM
We easily make the playoffs last year if the run defense isn't so bad. It's like people forget how bad our QB play was the year we won it all...

Yeah, maybe. But that had nothing to do with the unrealistic QB expectations.

SonOfLe-loLang
08-25-2017, 09:27 AM
We easily make the playoffs last year if the run defense isn't so bad. It's like people forget how bad our QB play was the year we won it all...

FP was the untold story of the Broncos demise last year. While our defense was good (obviously), and it was much more of a bend don't break, unlike the year before. We were constantly starting in poor FP (and i believe it was 4th worst in the league... somewhere around there). Our offense was not built for that.

Agamemnon
08-25-2017, 09:31 AM
Yeah, maybe. But that had nothing to do with the unrealistic QB expectations.

I thought you were talking about playoff expectations being unrealistic.

Agamemnon
08-25-2017, 09:33 AM
FP was the untold story of the Broncos demise last year. While our defense was good (obviously), and it was much more of a bend don't break, unlike the year before. We were constantly starting in poor FP (and i believe it was 4th worst in the league... somewhere around there). Our offense was not built for that.

Field position wasn't very good in 2015 either. That tends to happen when your offense sucks.

BroncoBeavis
08-25-2017, 09:37 AM
I thought you were talking about playoff expectations being unrealistic.

Jason basically called Siemien a failure because no playoffs.

It was an unreasonable expectation. ESPECIALLY considering that the defense fell off a couple notches.

The expectation made more sense last offseason because our defense came off under near GOAT status. But once we watched the whole season play out, saying a rook QB should've made the difference isn't rational.

Drunken.Broncoholic2
08-25-2017, 09:39 AM
Why did he play poorly that first game? He got first downs. He made a nice 3rd down throw. His first drive was undone by a penalty. His third drive was undone by Taylor not going forward, and a great typical broncos 3rd and 1 run stuff, and his third (the one that probably was his fault), was probably just a good play by the D.

His only incompletions this entire preseason were either throwaways or drops. He's looked decisive and accurate with each drop back.

So yes, he may not have improved. He might suck. But pointing to his preseason performance is some weird confirmation bias.

And your Sanchez/Lynch TC report comparison is stupid because they also sucked in their PS games.


Why are you assuming I'm comparing Sanchez/lynch to Siemian ? Totally missed the point. I'm talking the tweets and reports of their TCs. If I'm not to believe any tweet, why have most been right aside from a few biased sources? Your problem is assuming every tweet smells like Dmac or Lammey.



As far as game 1, It was like watching last years Siemian. As VJ would put it "Trevor is gonna be Trevor"

Drunken.Broncoholic2
08-25-2017, 09:41 AM
Jason basically called Siemien a failure because no playoffs.

It was an unreasonable expectation. ESPECIALLY considering that the defense fell off a couple notches.

The expectation made more sense last offseason because our defense came off under near GOAT status. But once we watched the whole season play out, saying a rook QB should've made the difference isn't rational.




One player cannot be the sole reason for failure. I don't believe Jason believes that.

It's amazing to me that some actually have to be reminded that it's 11 players out there. Even though a few blame 10.

SonOfLe-loLang
08-25-2017, 09:44 AM
Why are you assuming I'm comparing Sanchez/lynch to Siemian ? Totally missed the point. I'm talking the tweets and reports of their TCs. If I'm not to believe any tweet, why have most been right aside from a few biased sources? Your problem is assuming every tweet smells like Dmac or Lammey.



As far as game 1, It was like watching last years Siemian. As VJ would put it "Trevor is gonna be Trevor"

Why am I comparing it? It's the examples you used! How is that missing the point?

And, again, if that was your view of the first game, its more confirmation bias than anything else considering 1) it was a tiny sample size and 2) he didn't play poorly.

Agamemnon
08-25-2017, 09:46 AM
Jason basically called Siemien a failure because no playoffs.

It was an unreasonable expectation. ESPECIALLY considering that the defense fell off a couple notches.

The expectation made more sense last offseason because our defense came off under near GOAT status. But once we watched the whole season play out, saying a rook QB should've made the difference isn't rational.

Ah, yeah expecting a 1st year starter at QB to be a driving force behind making the playoffs is definitely not realistic, especially with no real supporting cast.

BroncoBeavis
08-25-2017, 09:48 AM
One player cannot be the sole reason for failure. I don't believe Jason believes that.

He didn't really put it that way.

But he seems to think Siemien should've made up the difference with his play.

Meanwhile nobody's call the defense a bust because they let Alex Smith take a game away with countless strings of 5 yard outs. They make one stop there, we were a playoff team. Fowler makes a simple catch... we were a playoff team.

Siemian certainly had some misses that could've made the difference as well. But calling his season a bust over it ignores everything the team whiffed on, or failed to do in helping a young QB out.

When a team provides a new QB awful protection and zero run, the first finger for the failed season should never go straight to the new kid.

Agamemnon
08-25-2017, 09:55 AM
One player cannot be the sole reason for failure. I don't believe Jason believes that.

It's amazing to me that some actually have to be reminded that it's 11 players out there. Even though a few blame 10.

One player can make all the difference. Replace Siemian with Rodgers and we go 12-4 most likely.

Jason in LA
08-25-2017, 10:00 AM
You said last year was a failure because no playoffs. Who did you think was taking us to the playoffs?

If Lynch had started and failed to make the playoffs, would that have meant auto-bust?

That still has nothing to do with Sanchez.

Heading into last year, the 2016 team was very similar to the 2015. Great defense with an offense that had poor QB play. People who thought that the 2016 team was a playoff caliber team weren't being homers. If that's the case, then anybody thinking that the Broncos had a chance to win the Super Bowl in 2015 was also being a homer. Some of those so-called experts said that the team would miss the playoffs with a game or two to go.

Last year, seeing that the Broncos were in the driver's seat at mid season (I believe that they were still in first place in the AFC West), and still controlled their own destiny in early December, it wasn't far fetched to think that they were a playoff caliber team.

BroncoBeavis
08-25-2017, 10:10 AM
That still has nothing to do with Sanchez.

Heading into last year, the 2016 team was very similar to the 2015.

That's what we liked to think at the time. But the run D wasn't the same. Losing Malik hurt. Ware barely played. Just not the same defense.

Plus an awful line, and zero inability to take off some pressure with the run.

In hindsight, the QB is one of the last things you can really blame for the falloff. After all, the QB play wasn't even good the year prior.

If anyone deserved cut some slack in the blame game, it's the brand new QB.

Jason in LA
08-25-2017, 10:29 AM
Oof.

You're an asshole for bringing up part of a point that I made without adding any context to it, or saying when the point was made. That is so lame.

That is a part of a quote that was made before the decision to go with Siemian over Sanchez was made.

My point of view heading into last year's training camp was that I'd rather take the guy who had some level of success when he played with a very good defense over a guy who hadn't attempted a NFL pass. That was my point of view for the bulk of camp.

Toward the end of camp, when it became clear that Sanchez was awful, I didn't complain about them going with Siemian. I didn't say that it was the wrong decision. I didn't rep for Sanchez. None of that.

I don't lock myself into a point of view. My point of view heading into camp about going with Sanchez over Siemian was based on a concept. But jobs are not won or lost on concepts. The players have to go out there and prove themselves, and Sanchez proved that the concept of playing him with the hopes that he'd regain the success he had early in his career wasn't going to happen. So my opinion changed. People who entrench themselves into a point of view have a difficult time changing their opinion, and they just want to be right. I was never entrenched in the Sanchez camp, if that was even a thing.

Again, what you just pulled is extremely lame. So get the **** out of here with that bull****.

CEH
08-25-2017, 10:34 AM
That's what we liked to think at the time. But the run D wasn't the same. Losing Malik hurt. Ware barely played. Just not the same defense.

Plus an awful line, and zero inability to take off some pressure with the run.

In hindsight, the QB is one of the last things you can really blame for the falloff. After all, the QB play wasn't even good the year prior.

If anyone deserved cut some slack in the blame game, it's the brand new QB.

Having an adequate Oline last year make us a playoff team. There was no reason to lose at home to KC. Defense/ST crapped the bed that game.

If the Oline is better this year and the run defense better , no reason we can't compete at 10-6.

I don't believe the defense as a whole will be better than the past two years so the offense will have to step up.

BroncoBeavis
08-25-2017, 10:36 AM
You're an a-hole for bringing up part of a point that I made without adding any context to it, or saying when the point was made. That is so lame.

That is a part of a quote that was made before the decision to go with Siemian over Sanchez was made.

Not sure what that addresses.

You apparently address QB success by whether they make the playoffs. And at least at one point regarded Mark Sanchez, yes Mark Sanchez, as the best option to that end.

Meanwhile, if Trevor had just sat back and watched that comedy unfold, you wouldn't say he failed.

I'm not sure how we can accuse Pick Number 250 of both surpassing and disappointing our expectations at the same time.

BroncoBeavis
08-25-2017, 10:44 AM
I don't lock myself into a point of view. My point of view heading into camp about going with Sanchez over Siemian was based on a concept. But jobs are not won or lost on concepts. The players have to go out there and prove themselves, and Sanchez proved that the concept of playing him with the hopes that he'd regain the success he had early in his career wasn't going to happen. So my opinion changed. People who entrench themselves into a point of view have a difficult time changing their opinion, and they just want to be right. I was never entrenched in the Sanchez camp, if that was even a thing.

Again, what you just pulled is extremely lame. So get the **** out of here with that bull****.

Dude, you're heckling me for saying we were lucky Trevor exceeded all expectation.

At the very least because we weren't forced to watch Mark ****ing Sanchez play quarterback all year. Something you were apparently resigned to at one point.

Honestly we should all be very, very grateful for that. One of the better gifts a Bronco player has ever given.

BroncoBuff
08-25-2017, 10:53 AM
Having an adequate Oline last year make us a playoff team. There was no reason to lose at home to KC. Defense/ST crapped the bed that game.

If the Oline is better this year and the run defense better , no reason we can't compete at 10-6.


Agreed. For the hundredth time we've heard it, I wish to remind the faithful that Manning suuu... er ... played poorly in 2015.

OABB
08-25-2017, 12:18 PM
One player can make all the difference. Replace Siemian with Rodgers and we go 12-4 most likely.

Replace him with any starting qb and we make the playoffs

Jason in LA
08-25-2017, 12:40 PM
Ah, yeah expecting a 1st year starter at QB to be a driving force behind making the playoffs is definitely not realistic, especially with no real supporting cast.

I have not at any point put the sole blame of last season on Siemian. I've stated numerous times that he was a part of the problem, but I have never said or implied that he was the problem. I've pointed out that a lack of talent on the O line and at the RB position greatly contributed to the Broncos problems. Siemian fans like to exclude him from the problems, and mainly blame the O line. I say that Siemian was just as much as a problem as the O line. I'm not willing to give him a pass because of the lack of talent around him. The only pass I'd give him is inexperience.

Jason in LA
08-25-2017, 12:44 PM
FP was the untold story of the Broncos demise last year. While our defense was good (obviously), and it was much more of a bend don't break, unlike the year before. We were constantly starting in poor FP (and i believe it was 4th worst in the league... somewhere around there). Our offense was not built for that.

The poor run defense contributed to the poor starting field position. That's a fair point. But the offense being among the league leaders in 3 and outs was also a major factor. Going 3 and out after a kickoff is pretty much giving the opponent the ball around the 35-40 yard line.

Jason in LA
08-25-2017, 12:46 PM
One player cannot be the sole reason for failure. I don't believe Jason believes that.

It's amazing to me that some actually have to be reminded that it's 11 players out there. Even though a few blame 10.

Thank you.

I never said that Siemian was the sole reason why the Broncos struggled, and at numerous times I've pointed out that the O line sucked.

Seems like some folks like to spin a person's words.

maven
08-25-2017, 12:50 PM
I like him because he wears a Broncos logo on his helmet.

I'm officially a fan of his now because he has fought and clawed for everything he's gotten. Other guys have been gifted the starting job for the Broncos and either walked away, or not wanted to take it. He's earned it twice despite the Broncos doing everything they can to give it to someone else. So go Trevor. Here's to you growing and hopefully remaining durable.

I'm surprised more people do not have this logic around here. Good post.

Brohemoth
08-25-2017, 01:03 PM
I'm surprised more people do not have this logic around here. Good post.

It's easy. We all love the Rudy movie. Cool dude, hard working. But so what? Ethic needs talent just like talent needs ethic.

Also, Kaylore's notion that Siemian had to fight and claw against Lynch is bull****. It's not like practice was rigged. Neither Sanchez or Lynch received special treatment. The reps were split 50/50.

BroncoBeavis
08-25-2017, 01:11 PM
I'm surprised more people do not have this logic around here. Good post.

It's mostly the people who've been scoffing at the prospect of a late-round 3rd stringer all along.

Then they're just locked in a track of dying to be right the whole time.

I never felt that way because I had big hopes for Lynch. They just never panned out, so I started rooting for the guy who did more.

BroncoBeavis
08-25-2017, 01:15 PM
The poor run defense contributed to the poor starting field position. That's a fair point. But the offense being among the league leaders in 3 and outs was also a major factor. Going 3 and out after a kickoff is pretty much giving the opponent the ball around the 35-40 yard line.

We were 29th in 3 and out percentage last year.

But 30th in 2015.

Conclusion: Blame the new guy.

ScottXray
08-25-2017, 01:18 PM
That still has nothing to do with Sanchez.

Heading into last year, the 2016 team was very similar to the 2015. Great defense with an offense that had poor QB play. People who thought that the 2016 team was a playoff caliber team weren't being homers. If that's the case, then anybody thinking that the Broncos had a chance to win the Super Bowl in 2015 was also being a homer. Some of those so-called experts said that the team would miss the playoffs with a game or two to go.

Last year, seeing that the Broncos were in the driver's seat at mid season (I believe that they were still in first place in the AFC West), and still controlled their own destiny in early December, it wasn't far fetched to think that they were a playoff caliber team.

The run defense was a huge liability last year. The D was not able to get off the field for far too many long drives and they were unable to stop teams from flipping the field more often than not. That is not a formula that helps an inexperienced first year starting QB, especially playing hurt with a separated non=throwing shoulder half the year . Combine that with the crap we had at O line and no effective TEs' and then the RBs basically all going down in the second half and 9-7 is actually pretty amazing. Not to mention an offensive coaching staff that seemed stuck in 1996 as far as play selection.

Jason in LA
08-25-2017, 01:23 PM
It's mostly the people who've been scoffing at the prospect of a late-round 3rd stringer all along.

Then they're just locked in a track of dying to be right the whole time.

I never felt that way because I had big hopes for Lynch. They just never panned out, so I started rooting for the guy who did more.

I can only speak for myself. I have stated that I'm not rooting against Siemian just so that I can be right. I may not believe in him, but I am rooting for him to succeed and keep the job. I want to see the Broncos win at a high level and compete for the Super Bowl. That's the only thing that matters. Siemian is going to have to play well for them to do that.

Agamemnon
08-25-2017, 01:24 PM
I have not at any point put the sole blame of last season on Siemian. I've stated numerous times that he was a part of the problem, but I have never said or implied that he was the problem. I've pointed out that a lack of talent on the O line and at the RB position greatly contributed to the Broncos problems. Siemian fans like to exclude him from the problems, and mainly blame the O line. I say that Siemian was just as much as a problem as the O line. I'm not willing to give him a pass because of the lack of talent around him. The only pass I'd give him is inexperience.

You are responding to things that are not in that post. I'm not Beavis you know. :P

Jason in LA
08-25-2017, 01:24 PM
We were 29th in 3 and out percentage last year.

But 30th in 2015.

Conclusion: Blame the new guy.

You must have a comprehension problem. Or you're trying to lock me into a point of view that I do not have.

BroncoBeavis
08-25-2017, 01:31 PM
You must have a comprehension problem. Or you're trying to lock me into a point of view that I do not have.

Lucky to have Siemian last year? They missed the playoffs, partially because of poor QB play.

Sorry. The fact that we got the production we did out of the 7th to last draft pick from the year before is pretty fortunate. You can't point to any prospect taken lower that could or would have provided better.

Hell, he's already provided more than probably any 1st rounder we've ever drafted.

kappys
08-25-2017, 01:34 PM
Sorry. The fact that we got the production we did out of the 7th to last draft pick from the year before is pretty fortunate. You can't point to any prospect taken lower that could or would have provided better.

Hell, he's already provided more than probably any 1st rounder we've ever drafted.

Well Tommy Maddox had a couple good years with the Steelers as I recall. Didn't do much for the Broncos though.

BroncoBeavis
08-25-2017, 01:37 PM
Well Tommy Maddox had a couple good years with the Steelers as I recall. Didn't do much for the Broncos though.

I remember him playing one game with the Steelers at Mile High. We ragdolled him pretty good IIRC. I was at that game with a Steeler fan I know.

I guess at least he gave us that. :)

Jason in LA
08-25-2017, 01:44 PM
Sorry. The fact that we got the production we did out of the 7th to last draft pick from the year before is pretty fortunate. You can't point to any prospect taken lower that could or would have provided better.

Hell, he's already provided more than probably any 1st rounder we've ever drafted.

I guess you like to set the bar pretty low.

strafen
08-25-2017, 01:48 PM
Oof.

Hahaha!!!
Sanchez?!!!
Really ??!!!!
Yikes!

Agamemnon
08-25-2017, 01:53 PM
We're all setting the bar low these days...

Jason in LA
08-25-2017, 01:54 PM
Hahaha!!!
Sanchez?!!!
Really ??!!!!
Yikes!

You're really going to jump into this?!?! You have a lot of nerve to call me the n-word, then after serving your ban, not apologizing or even acknowledging it. Now you're going to jump into this?!?!

strafen
08-25-2017, 01:55 PM
Sorry. The fact that we got the production we did out of the 7th to last draft pick from the year before is pretty fortunate. You can't point to any prospect taken lower that could or would have provided better.

Hell, he's already provided more than probably any 1st rounder we've ever drafted.

I think he'll be better than he was last year.
Siemian was a little bit overwhelmed going into last season never thinking he would be the starter.
And here we are. A full year as a starter under his belt should do wonders for him.
The newly revamped OL promises to be better at some point this season as the gel into a more cohesive unit by game 5 of the season and theeeafter...

The whole offense benefits Siemian, the OL, running game, tight end, new offensive minded coaches on the offense side for a change, etc