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Pontius Pirate
08-14-2017, 05:24 PM
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/BREAKING?src=hash">#BREAKING</a> Protesters in <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Durham?src=hash">#Durham</a> topple confederate monument downtown <a href="https://t.co/a3BNIavyxC">pic.twitter.com/a3BNIavyxC</a></p>&mdash; Derrick Lewis (@DerrickQLewis) <a href="https://twitter.com/DerrickQLewis/status/897235297485901825">August 14, 2017</a></blockquote>
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Pontius Pirate
08-14-2017, 05:25 PM
LOL and then posing with the crumpled remains afterwards:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Protesters are taking pictures around the fallen statue. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Durham?src=hash">#Durham</a> <a href="https://t.co/11GLhueqU1">pic.twitter.com/11GLhueqU1</a></p>&mdash; Derrick Lewis (@DerrickQLewis) <a href="https://twitter.com/DerrickQLewis/status/897247924593336321">August 15, 2017</a></blockquote>
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footstepsfrom#27
08-14-2017, 05:32 PM
These things are all over the south. It will be interesting to see if this spreads to a wider movement and if so whether cities will cave to pressure from white nationalists and other pond scum or do the right thing. In the wake of the attack in Charlottesville I'm wondering how the hate mongers will respond to it now. Will they show up and try to grab headlines again or melt meekly back under the rocks they crawled out from under?

commode
08-14-2017, 06:21 PM
statues are one thing, there are also numerous schools and roads and such named after the confederates.

Cascadia Bronco
08-14-2017, 08:41 PM
Take them down.

https://68.media.tumblr.com/e50541f8672fdbd2b307cb95bd8725d2/tumblr_oupa8jyX5v1rxpwjno1_1280.png

ShaneFalco
08-14-2017, 08:46 PM
Next up is statues of any slaveholder.

George Washington statues! Feel our social justice!

Cascadia Bronco
08-14-2017, 09:01 PM
Next up is statues of any slaveholder.

George Washington statues! Feel our social justice!

Oh hey look, it's Shane to defend statues erected by the KKK and other hate organizations in the past to make sure black people knew their place in society. If you want to cry over a mass produced statue that was meant to put black people down, embolden the KKK and fetishize a cause of white supremacy and owning other people disguised as "states rights" go for it.

Are you upset about how they took down the King George statue in New York after the declaration of independence? Or when US forces took down statues of Saddam? This isn't history, there are plenty of statues on battlefields and in museums to give a flying **** about these. Also the state of NC said no city can remove these, so they don't even get the choice of what goes up or down in their city.

But please, cry more over the racist statue please.

ShaneFalco
08-14-2017, 09:03 PM
Not defending anything.

Only questioning hiding history to pretend it never happened.

Cascadia Bronco
08-14-2017, 09:10 PM
Not defending anything.

Only questioning hiding history to pretend it never happened.

Yep, that's exactly what this was. And now no one will ever know the civil war happened. Really a shame we don't have museums, or battlefields preserved, or schools, or the internet to teach us about the civil war.

So going back to my examples, was that hiding history? Was destroying Nazi monuments, or soviet monuments in their former states hiding history? Couldn't you make the point that in the future, this act will in itself be history and means more than a mass produced statue (this one was made for a whole lot of counties in the south, so there are a lot of duplicates) that was built in 1924, which was built 60 years *after* the civil war. Also, did this spot hold some significance.

So many questions, so little time.

ShaneFalco
08-14-2017, 09:13 PM
there are actually many old soviet union statues and buildings still in place in their former territories.

Some people left them up as a reminder.

Cascadia Bronco
08-14-2017, 09:19 PM
there are actually many old soviet union statues and buildings still in place in their former territories.

Some people left them up as a reminder.

And we will still have old confederacy **** still standing in museums, and battlefields and places of actual significance. But does every single soviet monument get saved? They didn't bother keeping any of the nazi stuff around and we somehow managed to remember them.

I don't think anyone passed this statue praising the confederacy and thought "Man, that was a bad idea- we really ****ed up by doing the whole civil war thing". We ****ed up reconstruction by letting this happen, and pretend the civil war happened. The "war of northern aggression" is looked back on fondly and with pride, and this statue is a symptom of that.

It would be one thing if we were ashamed of it to make us think twice, but people just took down a rallying cry, and a focus of pride and reminiscence by people who want the south to rise again.

Guess Who
08-14-2017, 09:23 PM
Oh hey look, it's Shane to defend statues erected by the KKK and other hate organizations in the past to make sure black people knew their place in society. If you want to cry over a mass produced statue that was meant to put black people down, embolden the KKK and fetishize a cause of white supremacy and owning other people disguised as "states rights" go for it.

Are you upset about how they took down the King George statue in New York after the declaration of independence? Or when US forces took down statues of Saddam? This isn't history, there are plenty of statues on battlefields and in museums to give a flying **** about these. Also the state of NC said no city can remove these, so they don't even get the choice of what goes up or down in their city.

But please, cry more over the racist statue please.

Right on queue..... He is as predictable as he is racist.

ShaneFalco
08-14-2017, 09:23 PM
Right on queue..... He is as predictable as he is racist.

Hey after all we can just look at your ignore list for all the people to ban right?

its sad how quickly you devolved into being like the rest of loony left on this forum.

Just scream racist as loud as you can.

Guess Who
08-14-2017, 09:26 PM
there are actually many old soviet union statues and buildings still in place in their former territories.

Some people left them up as a reminder.

Many you mean just a few out of tens of thousands.


Editor's Note: This analysis was written by Eurasia analyst Eugene Chausovsky.

The recent topplings of Lenin statues by anti-Russia demonstrators in Kharkiv and elsewhere in Ukraine are only the latest examples of a trend that has spread across the former Soviet arena. The presence of Lenin statues — and likewise the circumstances of their removal — illuminates the status of relations between former Soviet states and Russia, from the end of the Cold War to the present.

The Soviet Union's inevitable weakening toward the end of the Cold War prompted the removal of many of Lenin's effigies by their host governments. Nearly all of the Lenin monuments in the Soviet satellite states in Central Europe were dropped in the wave of revolutions that began in 1989. Following the disintegration of the Soviet Union itself in 1991, Lenin statues began to fall within many of the former Soviet republics as well.

https://worldview.stratfor.com/article/treatment-soviet-relics-betrays-modern-sentiments

ShaneFalco
08-14-2017, 09:27 PM
I don't think anyone passed this statue praising the confederacy and thought "Man, that was a bad idea- we really ****ed up by doing the whole civil war thing". We ****ed up reconstruction by letting this happen, and pretend the civil war happened. The "war of northern aggression" is looked back on fondly and with pride, and this statue is a symptom of that.
.

You dont actually believe that, do you?

I know when i went to Fort Sumter, it was a very surreal experience. Seeing the battlefield where the 54th Massachusetts Infantry Regiment charged the fort.

Was the first black army unit in the war.

If you have ever seen the film "Glory". This was about that unit and battle.

Guess Who
08-14-2017, 09:27 PM
Hey after all we can just look at your ignore list for all the people to ban right?

its sad how quickly you devolved into being like the rest of loony left on this forum.

Just scream racist as loud as you can.

Your not on my ignore list. Despite your de-evolution you still have some value.

And for *ucks sake stop defending racists.... Jesus Christ just stop doing it.

ShaneFalco
08-14-2017, 09:28 PM
Many you mean just a few out of tens of thousands.


Editor's Note: This analysis was written by Eurasia analyst Eugene Chausovsky.

The recent topplings of Lenin statues by anti-Russia demonstrators in Kharkiv and elsewhere in Ukraine are only the latest examples of a trend that has spread across the former Soviet arena. The presence of Lenin statues — and likewise the circumstances of their removal — illuminates the status of relations between former Soviet states and Russia, from the end of the Cold War to the present.

The Soviet Union's inevitable weakening toward the end of the Cold War prompted the removal of many of Lenin's effigies by their host governments. Nearly all of the Lenin monuments in the Soviet satellite states in Central Europe were dropped in the wave of revolutions that began in 1989. Following the disintegration of the Soviet Union itself in 1991, Lenin statues began to fall within many of the former Soviet republics as well.

https://worldview.stratfor.com/article/treatment-soviet-relics-betrays-modern-sentiments

Lenin statues still exist today in former Soviet Union areas

And Stalin is still loved by many

ShaneFalco
08-14-2017, 09:29 PM
There is the ice arena in the Ukraine that has a Hammer and sickle.

Still was there a few years ago, even with all the fighting.

I believe Ukraine banned the hammer and sickle tho.

Cascadia Bronco
08-14-2017, 09:34 PM
You dont actually believe that, do you?

Yep. http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/150-years-later-23-of-americans-40-of-southerners-side-with-confederacy/

"In the CNN/Opinion Research Corporation Poll released Tuesday, roughly one in four Americans said they sympathize more with the Confederacy than the Union, a figure that rises to nearly four in ten among white Southerners."

Or did you miss the fact that the KKK is still around, and people love themselves some good old fashioned confederate flag waving. People have a fetish for the good ol days of the south. I have no idea where you got that this isn't a thing.

"Republicans were also most likely to say they admired the leaders of the southern states during the Civil War, with eight in 10 Republicans expressing admiration for the leaders in the South, virtually identical to the 79 percent of Republicans who admired the northern leaders during the Civil War."

I now know why you are a libertarian, you are naive as ****, and think we are living in a rational world where everyone just wants to do best for each other and would never take advantage of people. That if the government let us, we would all sing kumbaya and a great and fair society would emerge. I know that, because it used to be me.

Guess Who
08-14-2017, 09:35 PM
Lenin statues still exist today in former Soviet Union areas

And Stalin is still loved by many

You know youy can research this stuff. Out of tens of thousands of stautes very few remain.

You can still see these statues but like the U.S. these statues were taken down from town squares and put into museums and parks that are solely dedicated to them and others like them. Don't you understand the difference?

Confederate war traitor statues can still exist. They belong in museums or private parks soley dedicated to them. Not public parks where African Americans and other Americans that are repulsed by them are forced to look at them when they take their kiddies to the swings.... Surely you must understand this? Surely you must see the rational behind this???

1. Stalin World, Lithuania

Grutas Park – aka Stalin World – is the final resting place for the statues of Communist idols that used to adorn town squares all over Lithuania. Telegraph Travel’s Adrian Bridges visited the bizarre sculpture park near Druskininkai, on May 1 – International Workers’ Day: “Standing tall against a beautiful backdrop of birch trees, there was Uncle Joe himself.


The majority of Russia’s statues of Soviet heroes met a rather different fate. Most were torn from their pedestals in 1991’s coup, and relocated to Muzeon (formerly known as Fallen Monument Park), on Moscow’s Krymskaya Naberezhnaya embankment. The 700-strong collection of Lenins, Brezhnevs and Stalins now stand sentry in lush gardens and flower boardwalks, surrounded by fountains and picnicking families.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/lists/mighty-soviet-era-relics-you-can-still-visit-russia-ukraine/

ShaneFalco
08-14-2017, 09:38 PM
Yep. http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/150-years-later-23-of-americans-40-of-southerners-side-with-confederacy/

"In the CNN/Opinion Research Corporation Poll released Tuesday, roughly one in four Americans said they sympathize more with the Confederacy than the Union, a figure that rises to nearly four in ten among white Southerners."

Or did you miss the fact that the KKK is still around, and people love themselves some good old fashioned confederate flag waving. People have a fetish for the good ol days of the south. I have no idea where you got that this isn't a thing.

"Republicans were also most likely to say they admired the leaders of the southern states during the Civil War, with eight in 10 Republicans expressing admiration for the leaders in the South, virtually identical to the 79 percent of Republicans who admired the northern leaders during the Civil War."

I now know why you are a libertarian, you are naive as ****, and think we are living in a rational world where everyone just wants to do best for each other and would never take advantage of people. That if the government let us, we would all sing kumbaya and a great and fair society would emerge. I know that, because it used to be me.

not trying to saying that isnt accurate, but i do question the sourcing on that site.

Yes the KKK is still around. And yes they want to use these statues as some type of wierd monument to whatever craziness they believe.

But there are not alot of KKK. And they are mocked for what they believe.

Yes i believe the good in society will outweigh the bad. And learning from our history is far more valuable then ignoring it.

TD4HOF
08-14-2017, 09:39 PM
That's the best thing I've seen all day. I've been quietly optimistic that this Trump nonsense would ignite a counter movement the likes of which those backwater hicks never dreamt of. Get em all, people. Time to move forward.

ShaneFalco
08-14-2017, 09:39 PM
You know youy can research this stuff. Out of tens of thousands of stautes very few remain.

You can still see these statues but like the U.S. these statues were taken down from town squares and put into museums and parks that are solely dedicated to them and others like them. Don't you understand the difference?

Confederate war traitor statues can still exist. They belong in museums or private parks soley dedicated to them. Not public parks where African Americans and other Americans that are repulsed by them are forced to look at them when they take their kiddies to the swings.... Surely you must understand this? Surely you must see the rational behind this???

1. Stalin World, Lithuania

Grutas Park – aka Stalin World – is the final resting place for the statues of Communist idols that used to adorn town squares all over Lithuania. Telegraph Travel’s Adrian Bridges visited the bizarre sculpture park near Druskininkai, on May 1 – International Workers’ Day: “Standing tall against a beautiful backdrop of birch trees, there was Uncle Joe himself.


The majority of Russia’s statues of Soviet heroes met a rather different fate. Most were torn from their pedestals in 1991’s coup, and relocated to Muzeon (formerly known as Fallen Monument Park), on Moscow’s Krymskaya Naberezhnaya embankment. The 700-strong collection of Lenins, Brezhnevs and Stalins now stand sentry in lush gardens and flower boardwalks, surrounded by fountains and picnicking families.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/lists/mighty-soviet-era-relics-you-can-still-visit-russia-ukraine/

Yea they moved them all to that park.

What film is that park in..... I think some james bond film. With the helicopter in the park..... Maybe... Goldeneye?

That is probably what should be done. Move the confederate statues to a park.

Cascadia Bronco
08-14-2017, 09:46 PM
not trying to saying that isnt accurate, but i do question the sourcing on that site.

Yes the KKK is still around. And yes they want to use these statues as some type of wierd monument to whatever craziness they believe.

But there are not alot of KKK. And they are mocked for what they believe.

Yes i believe the good in society will outweigh the bad. And learning from our history is far more valuable then ignoring it.

You can learn from history by also not making the same mistakes. We tried it once where we let people put up monuments decades after the actual war, who were very much pro confederacy and racism and pretended it never happened and turned our heads. What is to be learned from these statues on state grounds?

Do we really need to remind black people that "Hey, we owned you, and then we had a bunch of people who missed it create statues years later. So, have fun walking by it every day. Now let's wave some flags of the same failed nation that really wanted to keep people like you enslaved!"

If someone built a Hitler statue in 2004 in the middle of Berlin on Hitler Street, and people wanted to take it down- would that be wrong? And was it wrong for New Yorkers to take down the King George statue, or us with Saddam? Or should we have left those up as a reminder of our past?

ShaneFalco
08-14-2017, 09:47 PM
All i am saying, is i have been to civil war sites and monuments. And i felt moved by them. Even the hateful ones, that our country could be so divided we would go to war with each other with hate and malice in our hearts.

Its a very surreal experience.

I always felt it was very humbling to see Fort Sumter and Gettysburg. Even places in Jefferson City.

Cascadia Bronco
08-14-2017, 09:47 PM
Yea they moved them all to that park.

What film is that park in..... I think some james bond film. With the helicopter in the park..... Maybe... Goldeneye?

That is probably what should be done. Move the confederate statues to a park.

Maybe like a battlefield or somewhere where it would make sense to have statues like that up.

ShaneFalco
08-14-2017, 09:49 PM
You can learn from history by also not making the same mistakes. We tried it once where we let people put up monuments decades after the actual war, who were very much pro confederacy and racism and pretended it never happened and turned our heads. What is to be learned from these statues on state grounds?

Do we really need to remind black people that "Hey, we owned you, and then we had a bunch of people who missed it create statues years later. So, have fun walking by it every day. Now let's wave some flags of the same failed nation that really wanted to keep people like you enslaved!"

In some sense yes. Look at where people have come from. From being owned as property to achieving whatever individuals are achieving today. We just had a black president for 8 years. To see, that once, his ancestors were traded, to where he is now, is inspiring to me at least.

ShaneFalco
08-14-2017, 09:51 PM
Maybe like a battlefield or somewhere where it would make sense to have statues like that up.

yea i would agree with that, instead of just destroying them all.

Cascadia Bronco
08-14-2017, 09:51 PM
All i am saying, is i have been to civil war sites and monuments. And i felt moved by them. Even the hateful ones, that our country could be so divided we would go to war with each other.

I was felt it was very humbling to see Fort Sumter or Gettysburg.

But those are cites of *actual* significance. They were erected specifically for that purpose. A school named after Jefferson Davis does nothing, statues by the KKK on random state property does nothing, a ****ING MOUNTAIN CARVING of three important figures of the confederacy on horses looking heroic does nothing.

I don't want the actual monuments removed that have a historic value and are a marker of a certain site or event. I want the statues that have a main focus on making the confederacy something that is looked back on fondly and with pride torn down. I want schools and highways to not have the president of the CSAs name on them. Making a black kid go to a school at Jefferson Davis High School would be the same as making a jewish kid go to a school called Adolph Hitler Prep Academy.

Guess Who
08-14-2017, 09:52 PM
Yea they moved them all to that park.

What film is that park in..... I think some james bond film. With the helicopter in the park..... Maybe... Goldeneye?

That is probably what should be done. Move the confederate statues to a park.

That is what I am in favor of... See Shane I knew we would find common ground. I have no problems with people owning confederate flags, I have no problems with these being in museums or parks dedicated to them. These are historical but they are also offensive to a lot of people and they have no place in public government places or parks. They should make a huge national park with nothing but Civil War statues from around the country.

Union and confederate and put it in Tennessee or Maryland, one of those border states that experienced so much strife from families fighting on both sides of the war. It could be a place where all people could go and learn.

Have a Lee next to a Grant both smiling....... :)

Cascadia Bronco
08-14-2017, 09:56 PM
yea i would agree with that, instead of just destroying them all.

Do we really need all 700+ statues saved? Really? Like this one that was torn down was one of like 30 that was mass produced for random places in the south. What about the confederate statues that were built in 2004 and 2010, are those historic enough to save?

Save the ones that have a meaning or a purpose, get rid of every single one that was commissioned by the KKK or other hate group, and everything that was constructed after 1910.

ShaneFalco
08-14-2017, 09:57 PM
i agree with both of your points. Take them out of public parks and put them in one giant civil war history park or museum.

I just feel like history, even the worst parts, is just too important to destroy and ignore. Its a reflection into our dark past.

Guess Who
08-14-2017, 09:59 PM
All i am saying, is i have been to civil war sites and monuments. And i felt moved by them. Even the hateful ones, that our country could be so divided we would go to war with each other with hate and malice in our hearts.

Its a very surreal experience.

I always felt it was very humbling to see Fort Sumter and Gettysburg. Even places in Jefferson City.

I agree totally but you have to understand these statues are everywhere down south and they are in predominately African American parks, they are at public government buildings and they need to be moved not destroyed. The ones that have been taken down are not getting destroyed all of them are just being moved to a different location where if you WANT to see it you can.

ShaneFalco
08-14-2017, 10:00 PM
Do we really need all 700+ statues saved? Really? Like this one that was torn down was one of like 30 that was mass produced for random places in the south. What about the confederate statues that were built in 2004 and 2010, are those historic enough to save?

Save the ones that have a meaning or a purpose, get rid of every single one that was commissioned by the KKK or other hate group, and everything that was constructed after 1910.

no i dont care about the recent ones that were made specifically by neo nazis.

I am talking about the ones from the civil war.

Guess Who
08-14-2017, 10:03 PM
The Jefferson Davis Presidential Library is trying to acquire all the statues that were taken down in New Orleans. Now this would be a perfect solution. I would love to see that library.


Thomas Payne, executive director at Beauvoir, the Biloxi, Mississippi, estate that houses the Jefferson Davis Presidential Library and was his final home, said his team has already reached out to New Orleans officials in the hopes their property could take the Davis statue -- or all of the monuments off the city's hands.

"We'll take whatever monuments," said Payne, who noted the request was made before he began working at Beauvoir in January. "Our interest is in preserving history, and we certainly don't want history to be erased or otherwise eliminated And, if nowhere else, then we'd certainly love to have them and give them a place of honor."

At 52 acres, Payne said the Beauvoir property could easily house the monuments, which are sizable and would in all likelihood have to remain outdoors as they were originally intended.

http://www.nola.com/politics/index.ssf/2017/05/confederate_monuments_where_ar.html


EDIT: I think I might road trip there.

ShaneFalco
08-14-2017, 10:03 PM
one thing i am grateful about my public school in St. Louis.

One year they took us all to the civil war battlefields and monuments around the midwest.

Was the one field trip, ill always remember.

ShaneFalco
08-14-2017, 10:05 PM
The Jefferson Davis Presidential Library is trying to acquire all the statues that were taken down in New Orleans. Now this would be a perfect solution. I would love to see that library.


Thomas Payne, executive director at Beauvoir, the Biloxi, Mississippi, estate that houses the Jefferson Davis Presidential Library and was his final home, said his team has already reached out to New Orleans officials in the hopes their property could take the Davis statue -- or all of the monuments off the city's hands.

"We'll take whatever monuments," said Payne, who noted the request was made before he began working at Beauvoir in January. "Our interest is in preserving history, and we certainly don't want history to be erased or otherwise eliminated And, if nowhere else, then we'd certainly love to have them and give them a place of honor."

At 52 acres, Payne said the Beauvoir property could easily house the monuments, which are sizable and would in all likelihood have to remain outdoors as they were originally intended.

http://www.nola.com/politics/index.ssf/2017/05/confederate_monuments_where_ar.html


EDIT: I think I might road trip there.

thats a great solution. And i feel the same way as Mr Payne.

Guess Who
08-14-2017, 10:08 PM
thats a great solution. And i feel the same way as Mr Payne.

http://www.atlasobscura.com/places/beauvoir-jefferson-davis-home-and-presidential-library

Check it out... I am ready for a road trip

Biloxi has some terrific beaches as well

ShaneFalco
08-14-2017, 10:14 PM
http://www.atlasobscura.com/places/beauvoir-jefferson-davis-home-and-presidential-library

Check it out... I am ready for a road trip

Biloxi has some terrific beaches as well

i have never been to NO.

Cascadia Bronco
08-14-2017, 10:21 PM
no i dont care about the recent ones that were made specifically by neo nazis.

I am talking about the ones from the civil war.

Just for clarity, what's the years after you would consider to be from the civil war? I pulled 1910 out of my ass, but was curious what your cutoff would be.

ShaneFalco
08-14-2017, 10:24 PM
Just for clarity, what's the years after you would consider to be from the civil war? I pulled 1910 out of my ass, but was curious what your cutoff would be.

i honestly would have to do some googling.

1910 sounds about right.

But some generals would die after the war and then the town would create some memorial type thing.

So yea that would be for a civil war historian to decide.

ShaneFalco
08-14-2017, 10:29 PM
yes this is the park with all those statues :)

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/tPOuqDR3uzc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

DenverBroncosJM
08-14-2017, 10:41 PM
Destroying public property, regardless of what it is, is now acceptable and celebrated.

TD4HOF
08-14-2017, 10:43 PM
What?! As far as American life goes, the Civil War is very much alive to this day. 1910..LOL. Jim Crow went on well into the 60s!

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
08-14-2017, 11:39 PM
Spicoli: "Leave our statues alone!"

L0L.

Pontius Pirate
08-15-2017, 07:13 AM
yea i would agree with that, instead of just destroying them all.

I'd be okay with taking all the confederate statues and putting them in a swamp.

El Guapo
08-15-2017, 07:28 AM
Just curious what this accomplished? Do these same individuals suddenly show up to their 9-5 tomorrow and start providing for their families? I'm perplexed by the amount of free time people have.

Smiling Assassin27
08-15-2017, 08:24 AM
Seems to me they might wanna take down this statue in Seattle (V.I. Lenin) before they do any Confederates.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CINMoQjUwAEJaKB.jpg

Smiling Assassin27
08-15-2017, 08:27 AM
Or, say, maybe this bust of Stalin in Virginia:

http://image.newsru.com/pict/id/large/1279528_20100604130520.gif

Guess Who
08-15-2017, 08:30 AM
Why? Stalin and Lenin never led a traitorous rebellion against the U.S. and wanted to keep enslaved million of people.

Smiling Assassin27
08-15-2017, 08:30 AM
Or, if you're truly against white supremacists being glorified, maybe this Margaret Sanger bust oughta go too.

https://nyoobserver.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/pod_sanger.jpg?quality=80&w=635

Smiling Assassin27
08-15-2017, 08:31 AM
Why? Stalin and Lenin never led a traitorous rebellion against the U.S.


that's not the reason they're being removed. they're being removed due to racial and ideological insensitivity.

TD4HOF
08-15-2017, 08:31 AM
Most statues built in 1940-1960. They are direct responses to Civil Rights movement. Nothing to do with warm and fuzzy heritage.

https://twitter.com/kevinmkruse/status/897265457488699395

Even this thread is an example of the complicit enabling of racist legacies by self purported opponents of overt segregation.

Guess Who
08-15-2017, 08:31 AM
that's not the reason they're being removed. they're being removed due to racial insensitivity.

Recheck my post. you replied before the edit.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
08-15-2017, 08:32 AM
Or, if you're truly against white supremacists being glorified, maybe this Margaret Sanger bust oughta go too.


^

I guess somebody didn't enjoy the video. :mullet1:

Guess Who
08-15-2017, 08:33 AM
Most statues built in 1940-1960. They are direct responses to Civil Rights movement. Nothing to do with warm and fuzzy heritage.

https://twitter.com/kevinmkruse/status/897265457488699395

Even this thread is an example of the complicit enabling of racist legacies by self purported opponents of overt segregation.

Yep, it is all bout keeping people down not about raising people up. Just look at the hatred ion those protests.... there is no love there only hate. No love of country no love of your fellow man.

TD4HOF
08-15-2017, 08:35 AM
Here comes the predictable logical rearranging of the chairs on the Titanic by statue defenders. Where they bring up everything else they can think of rather than absorbing the issue.

Guess Who
08-15-2017, 08:36 AM
Here comes the predictable logical rearranging of the chairs on the Titanic by statue defenders. Where they bring up everything else they can think of rather than absorbing the issue.

hmmmm.... I guess we can expect Hillary's e mails to pop up pretty soonHilarious!Hilarious!

TD4HOF
08-15-2017, 08:36 AM
Yep, it is all bout keeping people down not about raising people up. Just look at the hatred ion those protests.... there is no love there only hate. No love of country no love of your fellow man.

The schism is good for the machine, The Man, the money. Round and round we go.

peacepipe
08-15-2017, 08:41 AM
that's not the reason they're being removed. they're being removed due to racial and ideological insensitivity.
Exactly why they're being removed. Why would we keep statues of traitors?

TD4HOF
08-15-2017, 08:42 AM
hmmmm.... I guess we can expect Hillary's e mails to pop up pretty soonHilarious!Hilarious!

*amid the falling ashes of a nuclear holocaust*

Someone in the South: "It was that bitch Hillary's emails."

"But Trump..."

"EMAILS! Now pass me that powdered tuna."

Pontius Pirate
08-15-2017, 08:59 AM
Just curious what this accomplished? Do these same individuals suddenly show up to their 9-5 tomorrow and start providing for their families? I'm perplexed by the amount of free time people have.

You could say that about both sides.

Except in the case of the alt-right and sig-heilers, they are starting to lose their jobs so probably don't need to worry about their 9-5 jobs for much longer.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
08-15-2017, 09:04 AM
Just curious what this accomplished? Do these same individuals suddenly show up to their 9-5 tomorrow and start providing for their families? I'm perplexed by the amount of free time people have.

We get to choose the kind of country and society we want to live in, e.g., one that doesn't glorify slavery, Jim Crow, treason against the United States, etc.

I can see why you'd be "perplexed" about this.

Yi Rox
08-15-2017, 09:05 AM
The Jefferson Davis Presidential Library is trying to acquire all the statues that were taken down in New Orleans. Now this would be a perfect solution. I would love to see that library.


Thomas Payne, executive director at Beauvoir, the Biloxi, Mississippi, estate that houses the Jefferson Davis Presidential Library and was his final home, said his team has already reached out to New Orleans officials in the hopes their property could take the Davis statue -- or all of the monuments off the city's hands.

"We'll take whatever monuments," said Payne, who noted the request was made before he began working at Beauvoir in January. "Our interest is in preserving history, and we certainly don't want history to be erased or otherwise eliminated And, if nowhere else, then we'd certainly love to have them and give them a place of honor."

At 52 acres, Payne said the Beauvoir property could easily house the monuments, which are sizable and would in all likelihood have to remain outdoors as they were originally intended.

http://www.nola.com/politics/index.ssf/2017/05/confederate_monuments_where_ar.html


EDIT: I think I might road trip there.


I know it's a different spelling but, nobody find the irony in the directors name of the Davis library?

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
08-15-2017, 09:12 AM
^

"We'll take whatever monuments," said Payne, who noted the request was made before he began working at Beauvoir in January. "Our interest is in preserving history, and we certainly don't want history to be erased or otherwise eliminated And, if nowhere else, then we'd certainly love to have them and give them a place of honor."

This dip**** doesn't get it.

Nothing honorable about these symbols.

If he wants to create some sort of "hall of shame" for them (sort of like the Germans and Holocaust museums) then that might make some sort of sense.

Pontius Pirate
08-15-2017, 09:45 AM
Or, if you're truly against white supremacists being glorified, maybe this Margaret Sanger bust oughta go too.

https://nyoobserver.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/pod_sanger.jpg?quality=80&w=635

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/f1/6f/8b/f16f8b4187b8faa7250d758c984fa430--major-league-movie-baseball-quotes.jpg

Guess Who
08-15-2017, 10:34 AM
^



This dip**** doesn't get it.

Nothing honorable about these symbols.

If he wants to create some sort of "hall of shame" for them (sort of like the Germans and Holocaust museums) then that might make some sort of sense.

The Southerners that fought in the war were honorable. Hell most of them were just damn kids. To honor a Confederate soldier is fine. But you do it in a museum or a piece of public land that was set aside for them specifically. A lot of great AMERICANS died in the Civil War AND like has been mentioned most of these statues were made during the Civil Rights movement as a slap in the face to African Americans... but that doesn't mean the confederate soldier himself was a bad person. Most southerns didn't own slaves, especially most of the ones that had to fight in the war. Respect the soldier but they need their own place.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
08-15-2017, 01:05 PM
The Southerners that fought in the war were honorable. Hell most of them were just damn kids. To honor a Confederate soldier is fine. But you do it in a museum or a piece of public land that was set aside for them specifically. A lot of great AMERICANS died in the Civil War AND like has been mentioned most of these statues were made during the Civil Rights movement as a slap in the face to African Americans... but that doesn't mean the confederate soldier himself was a bad person. Most southerns didn't own slaves, especially most of the ones that had to fight in the war. Respect the soldier but they need their own place.

Nothing honorable about fighting a war to defend the "right" to enslave other human beings.

"I was just following orders" doesn't cut it - otherwise you have to give the Nazis a pass on the same grounds.

Requiem
08-15-2017, 01:16 PM
Confederates were traitors.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
08-15-2017, 01:23 PM
https://s21.postimg.org/kdryhd3p3/IMG_6199.jpg

GreatBronco16
08-15-2017, 01:38 PM
But you do it in a museum or a piece of public land that was set aside for them specifically.

Is that not where these statues are? On a piece of public land specifically for the statue?

Destroying public property, regardless of what it is, is now acceptable and celebrated.

You know how there is always one side that seems to be ok when their side destroys things that don't belong to them??? Hmmm.

These are the times when they agree with breaking the law.

GreatBronco16
08-15-2017, 01:41 PM
Confederates were traitors.

LOL, they weren't the only ones.

peacepipe
08-15-2017, 01:43 PM
Is that not where these statues are? On a piece of public land specifically for the statue?



You know how there is always one side that seems to be ok when their side destroys things that don't belong to them??? Hmmm.

These are the times when they agree with breaking the law.

Were those statues built with public funds on public land? They belong to those who hate it just as much as they belong to the idiots who support those statues.

They're doing their civic duty destroying/vandalizing the statues of traitors.

peacepipe
08-15-2017, 01:47 PM
LOL, they weren't the only ones.

They are the ones that turned traitor/terrorist against the US.

GreatBronco16
08-15-2017, 01:50 PM
Were those statues built with public funds on public land? They belong to those who hate it just as much as they belong to the idiots who support those statues.

They're doing their civic duty destroying/vandalizing the statues of traitors.

To answer your first question, I don't know, but they probably were.

Your second comment, no, you are still breaking the law when you do that.

Maleficent
08-15-2017, 02:08 PM
Last I checked, we don't live in the Confederate States of America.

So yes, they were traitors.

Smiling Assassin27
08-15-2017, 02:34 PM
More of the 'offense for me but not for thee' crap on the Left. Just because you do not like a statue for some ideological reason (right or wrong), impersonating the Fascists whom you claim to loathe, by demanding they be removed is wrong in a pluralistic and free society. The slippery slope that many barely realize they are straddling is a dangerous one because it's such a subjective thing. If I resent Washington for being a seditious slave owner, does my disdain for him allow me the right to deface or even destroy the Washington Monument? How about the Jefferson? Lincoln put journalists in jail and did other vile and freedom-hating things, can we get rid of the Lincoln Memorial? MLK was no saint, neither was Malcolm X. Rip 'em down?

At what point do we stop yanking down memorials that offend us, them, or whomever? And who gets to decide where this line is? The Left as well as the Right need to get ahold of themselves. Solving a 'problem' by blowing it up, yanking it down, or defacing it is what they do in Stalinist and legit Fascist nations.

If anything, these monuments attest to how we got to where we are, warts and all. You want your kids to know why a statue of Stonewall Jackson signifies more than just a military genius, then tell them. You want your kids to know why a statue of Lenin in Seattle signifies much more than triumphant collectivism, then tell them why. It's not up to America to shield you from art, public tributes, or any other method of telling about our history. It's up to America to preserve an artist's or community's freedom of speech and expression from being trampled on by those who are/may be offended. If you are offended, GOOD. That means you're in America, where a free people can live as they see fit.

Public funding of such things is a different story. For a government, purported to be a representative of its people, to spend taxpayer dollars on such things isn't right as you'll probably never satisfy everyone. Let private entities erect what they see fit, even if it's a statue of the Grand Wizard. Will it offend? Absolutely. Are the offended required to look at it? Nope. They damn sure aren't allowed to trash it, though. They SHOULD be moved to tell anyone who will listen why that monument to a chapter of American/State history represents much more than just what the artist chooses to depict. That's all. Keep your pitchforks at home. Demonstrate at the site if you want but don't think you are empowered to prevent others from visiting, admiring, or viewing it.

They may come for the Confederate statues today but if you are cool with it, don't be shocked when they come for YOUR statues (Black, Native American, Hispanic, etc.) based on the same subjective standard.

Pontius Pirate
08-15-2017, 03:06 PM
More of the 'offense for me but not for thee' crap on the Left. Just because you do not like a statue for some ideological reason (right or wrong), impersonating the Fascists whom you claim to loathe, by demanding they be removed is wrong in a pluralistic and free society. The slippery slope that many barely realize they are straddling is a dangerous one because it's such a subjective thing. If I resent Washington for being a seditious slave owner, does my disdain for him allow me the right to deface or even destroy the Washington Monument? How about the Jefferson? Lincoln put journalists in jail and did other vile and freedom-hating things, can we get rid of the Lincoln Memorial? MLK was no saint, neither was Malcolm X. Rip 'em down?

At what point do we stop yanking down memorials that offend us, them, or whomever? And who gets to decide where this line is? The Left as well as the Right need to get ahold of themselves. Solving a 'problem' by blowing it up, yanking it down, or defacing it is what they do in Stalinist and legit Fascist nations.

If anything, these monuments attest to how we got to where we are, warts and all. You want your kids to know why a statue of Stonewall Jackson signifies more than just a military genius, then tell them. You want your kids to know why a statue of Lenin in Seattle signifies much more than triumphant collectivism, then tell them why. It's not up to America to shield you from art, public tributes, or any other method of telling about our history. It's up to America to preserve an artist's or community's freedom of speech and expression from being trampled on by those who are/may be offended. If you are offended, GOOD. That means you're in America, where a free people can live as they see fit.

Public funding of such things is a different story. For a government, purported to be a representative of its people, to spend taxpayer dollars on such things isn't right as you'll probably never satisfy everyone. Let private entities erect what they see fit, even if it's a statue of the Grand Wizard. Will it offend? Absolutely. Are the offended required to look at it? Nope. They damn sure aren't allowed to trash it, though. They SHOULD be moved to tell anyone who will listen why that monument to a chapter of American/State history represents much more than just what the artist chooses to depict. That's all. Keep your pitchforks at home. Demonstrate at the site if you want but don't think you are empowered to prevent others from visiting, admiring, or viewing it.

They may come for the Confederate statues today but if you are cool with it, don't be shocked when they come for YOUR statues (Black, Native American, Hispanic, etc.) based on the same subjective standard.

Monuments are about honoring people we, as a society, believe should be honored. CSA artifacts belong in a museum, not on a pedestal.

If society one day says X monument should come down, and it's on public property, govt officials should listen to the taxpayers that pay for it and elect them.

Pontius Pirate
08-15-2017, 03:08 PM
"But what if by tearing down CSA monuments, we forget about those very important Confederate generals?"

Then maybe we'll make strides towards healing injustices from the slave era

GreatBronco16
08-15-2017, 03:39 PM
Monuments are about honoring people we, as a society, believe should be honored. CSA artifacts belong in a museum, not on a pedestal.

If society one day says X monument should come down, and it's on public property, govt officials should listen to the taxpayers that pay for it and elect them.

Ok, let the people in those states vote on to keep or remove them.

GreatBronco16
08-15-2017, 03:43 PM
One has been arrested. Good.


http://abc3340.com/news/local/protester-who-helped-pull-down-durham-confederate-statue-arrested

ZONA
08-15-2017, 04:14 PM
Not defending anything.

Only questioning hiding history to pretend it never happened.

Didn't see you complaining when our troops yanked down statue of Saddam. Like it or not, that was history. Should we have left it up.

Should the Germans left up all the Nazi statues?

Maleficent
08-15-2017, 05:15 PM
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Holocaust Memorial in downtown Boston damaged; person in custody for alleged vandalism <a href="https://t.co/lZJpHFIw1q">https://t.co/lZJpHFIw1q</a> <a href="https://t.co/7s1fyvWMck">pic.twitter.com/7s1fyvWMck</a></p>&mdash; The Boston Globe (@BostonGlobe) <a href="https://twitter.com/BostonGlobe/status/897246240898994176">August 14, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Pontius Pirate
08-15-2017, 07:23 PM
Ok, let the people in those states vote on to keep or remove them.

I don't believe that option exists for citizens - just councils

footstepsfrom#27
08-15-2017, 07:40 PM
This **** was not about a statue erected in the 1924 Jim Crow south to humiliate and intimidate black citizens into fear and compliance with white rule, and it isn't about the "proud southern heritage" either. It was nothing but a chance for racist pricks from around the country to attempt to instill fear and intimidation with guns and terror.

It failed. Instead it has had the opposite effect.

But here's a question for the Nazi defenders and apologists in here:

If you're so interested in making sure that we don't forget the southern history and culture, how many of you support teaching black history as a mandatory core course requirement in all American high schools?

You want your history remembered? So do I. The truth about this culture should be taught to every kid in the public schools by the 10th grade.

Cascadia Bronco
08-15-2017, 08:56 PM
One has been arrested. Good.


http://abc3340.com/news/local/protester-who-helped-pull-down-durham-confederate-statue-arrested

Sorry they tore down your traitor participation trophy :( Maybe the KKK will build you another one. They were pretty good about building them over 60 years after the war ended.

ShaneFalco
08-15-2017, 09:50 PM
The Southerners that fought in the war were honorable. Hell most of them were just damn kids. To honor a Confederate soldier is fine. But you do it in a museum or a piece of public land that was set aside for them specifically. A lot of great AMERICANS died in the Civil War AND like has been mentioned most of these statues were made during the Civil Rights movement as a slap in the face to African Americans... but that doesn't mean the confederate soldier himself was a bad person. Most southerns didn't own slaves, especially most of the ones that had to fight in the war. Respect the soldier but they need their own place.
LA will never understand this.

Different time and culture. LA thinks the war was fought for one reason, to own slaves. And everyone who fought in the war was either a slaveholder or a northerner who was against slavery. Very child like.

In reality there was some who felt the war was about states rights. Now you can argue the moral issue as that it was over the right to own another human being as that what was being decided ....

But if people really want to understand the issue, study the opinions at the time, many southerners feared that the federal government dictating to states would go well beyond just the slave trade and remove power from the states. And with the case of slavery, a moral unjustice in most of the country, it was decided that it was worth the precedent. I agree. The South did not. As we failed to do it after declaring independence. The Civil War was the reckoning for our failure to do so.

It would set the precedent for the federal governments power for years to come. It wasnt just about the ability to own slaves for every single southerner.

In some sense the South was actually right about the precedent being set, when you look at what came along in history with the civil war.

The Railroad. Jesse James and the Pinkertons.

ShaneFalco
08-15-2017, 10:17 PM
Didn't see you complaining when our troops yanked down statue of Saddam. Like it or not, that was history. Should we have left it up.

Should the Germans left up all the Nazi statues?

I complained about our presence there from the very beginning.

All we did was defeat an army for people who took down a statue.

That was their big accomplishment. Being like every other third world country, tearing down statues on the news.

Not building their country back up, not sharing their country with the different sects within it, all they did was take down a statue.

Maybe that is why Iraq is still so messed up. It was all given to them.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
08-15-2017, 11:24 PM
LA thinks the war was fought for one reason, to own slaves.

That's exactly what the war was about.

To argue otherwise is to engage in revisionism and to defend the indefensible, i.e., the sort of thing you do here on a daily basis.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
08-15-2017, 11:27 PM
I complained about our presence there from the very beginning.

Where?

Not on this forum.

Link us to anything on the web that would substantiate your claim.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
08-15-2017, 11:31 PM
More of the 'offense for me but not for thee' crap on the Left. Just because you do not like a statue for some ideological reason (right or wrong), impersonating the Fascists whom you claim to loathe, by demanding they be removed is wrong in a pluralistic and free society. The slippery slope that many barely realize they are straddling is a dangerous one because it's such a subjective thing. If I resent Washington for being a seditious slave owner, does my disdain for him allow me the right to deface or even destroy the Washington Monument? How about the Jefferson? Lincoln put journalists in jail and did other vile and freedom-hating things, can we get rid of the Lincoln Memorial? MLK was no saint, neither was Malcolm X. Rip 'em down?

At what point do we stop yanking down memorials that offend us, them, or whomever? And who gets to decide where this line is? The Left as well as the Right need to get ahold of themselves. Solving a 'problem' by blowing it up, yanking it down, or defacing it is what they do in Stalinist and legit Fascist nations.

If anything, these monuments attest to how we got to where we are, warts and all. You want your kids to know why a statue of Stonewall Jackson signifies more than just a military genius, then tell them. You want your kids to know why a statue of Lenin in Seattle signifies much more than triumphant collectivism, then tell them why. It's not up to America to shield you from art, public tributes, or any other method of telling about our history. It's up to America to preserve an artist's or community's freedom of speech and expression from being trampled on by those who are/may be offended. If you are offended, GOOD. That means you're in America, where a free people can live as they see fit.

Public funding of such things is a different story. For a government, purported to be a representative of its people, to spend taxpayer dollars on such things isn't right as you'll probably never satisfy everyone. Let private entities erect what they see fit, even if it's a statue of the Grand Wizard. Will it offend? Absolutely. Are the offended required to look at it? Nope. They damn sure aren't allowed to trash it, though. They SHOULD be moved to tell anyone who will listen why that monument to a chapter of American/State history represents much more than just what the artist chooses to depict. That's all. Keep your pitchforks at home. Demonstrate at the site if you want but don't think you are empowered to prevent others from visiting, admiring, or viewing it.

They may come for the Confederate statues today but if you are cool with it, don't be shocked when they come for YOUR statues (Black, Native American, Hispanic, etc.) based on the same subjective standard.

You should try to learn something from the Germans, who do not memorialize or erect monuments to their racists and white supremacists.

https://s3.postimg.org/pvvxhbalv/IMG_6199.jpg

https://s3.postimg.org/99ed88ho3/IMG_6203.jpg

Guess Who
08-16-2017, 12:21 AM
Nothing honorable about fighting a war to defend the "right" to enslave other human beings.

"I was just following orders" doesn't cut it - otherwise you have to give the Nazis a pass on the same grounds.

A lot of Southerners fought defending their homes. Almost the whole civil war was fought in the south.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
08-16-2017, 02:21 AM
A lot of Southerners fought defending their homes. Almost the whole civil war was fought in the south.

If they were only defending their homes, and if allegiance to the confederacy wasn't a factor, then they don't need monuments to confederate "heroes."

elsid13
08-16-2017, 02:33 AM
A lot of Southerners fought defending their homes. Almost the whole civil war was fought in the south.

Because the South didn't have the industrial or logistic infrastructure to invade the North. The Southern state were in rebellion and aggressively pursued their political agenda.

footstepsfrom#27
08-16-2017, 02:34 AM
If they were only defending their homes, and if allegiance to the confederacy wasn't a factor, then they don't need monuments to confederate "heroes."
Nobody who watches that HBO mini documentary can come away with the impression these vile snakes are interested in in the preservation of history or the honor of southern heritage. They're the human garbage scow of this country.

Guess Who
08-16-2017, 03:15 AM
If they were only defending their homes, and if allegiance to the confederacy wasn't a factor, then they don't need monuments to confederate "heroes."

I agree, but they should be put in a museum and marked as a part of our history.

LongDongJohnson
08-16-2017, 03:34 AM
The south will rise again!

Guess Who
08-16-2017, 03:54 AM
The south will rise again!

We can hope as it stands now all those southern states are just a burden on the nation

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
08-16-2017, 04:52 AM
I agree, but they should be put in a museum and marked as a part of our history.

If they want to put their monuments to slavers and secessionists in something akin to a German Holocaust museum, then that would make some sort of sense, I guess.

https://s11.postimg.org/mznhpvl1f/IMG_0568.jpg

Guess Who
08-16-2017, 04:59 AM
If they want to put their monuments to slavers and secessionists in something akin to a German Holocaust museum, then that would make some sort of sense, I guess.

https://s11.postimg.org/mznhpvl1f/IMG_0568.jpg

I could care less if people have the **** in their yard or drive around with it on their truck.. Knock yourself out. The State should not be promoting this stuff unless in a museum.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
08-16-2017, 05:42 AM
Nobody who watches that HBO mini documentary can come away with the impression these vile snakes are interested in in the preservation of history or the honor of southern heritage. They're the human garbage scow of this country.

And then you have the usual confederate apologists and revisionists like ShaneSpicoli trying to argue that the Civil War wasn't about slavery, etc.

These people are just vile. :oyvey:

Rohirrim
08-16-2017, 07:52 AM
I think they should leave up any statue raised within 10 years or so of the end of the Civil War as an historical artifact. I think we'll discover the majority of those statues were erected after 1920 and had very little to do with honoring the subject of the statue.

peacepipe
08-16-2017, 08:34 AM
http://crooksandliars.com/2017/08/baltimore-removed-4-confederate-statues

City Council voted unanimously on Monday to remove all 4 confederate statues but there was no timeline set on when they would be removed. Well, that timeline must have been set pretty fast because less than 48 hours after the resolution passed, all 4 were removed in the dead of night.

Arkie
08-16-2017, 08:39 AM
Then maybe we'll make strides towards healing injustices from the slave era

Like George Washington? He was a big part of the slave era. He owned 317 slaves. He was a Southern aristocrat, and was a proud 4th generation Virginian. He was also a great general. He probably would have led the confederate army if he was born just 75 years later. Imagine if we had to change everything named after Washington, from streets and schools to the Washington monument to the state of Washington, and the nation's capital itself. Countless places are named after that slave owner.

Rohirrim
08-16-2017, 09:13 AM
Like George Washington? He was a big part of the slave era. He owned 317 slaves. He was a Southern aristocrat, and was a proud 4th generation Virginian. He was also a great general. He probably would have led the confederate army if he was born just 75 years later. Imagine if we had to change everything named after Washington, from streets and schools to the Washington monument to the state of Washington, and the nation's capital itself. Countless places are named after that slave owner.

"I can only say that there is not a man living who wishes more sincerely than I do to see a plan adopted for the abolition of it (slavery); but there is only one proper and effectual mode by which it can be accomplished, and that is by Legislative authority; and this, as far as my suffrage (vote and support) will go, shall never be wanting." - (George Washington) Letter to Robert Morris, April 12, 1786

peacepipe
08-16-2017, 09:15 AM
Like George Washington? He was a big part of the slave era. He owned 317 slaves. He was a Southern aristocrat, and was a proud 4th generation Virginian. He was also a great general. He probably would have led the confederate army if he was born just 75 years later. Imagine if we had to change everything named after Washington, from streets and schools to the Washington monument to the state of Washington, and the nation's capital itself. Countless places are named after that slave owner.

Yeah,but he wasn't born 75 yrs later. Maybe he leads a confederate army or maybe he doesn't. At the end of the day the facts remain the same, the confederates were traitors.

Rohirrim
08-16-2017, 09:22 AM
"Your late purchase of an estate in the colony of Cayenne, with a view of emancipating the slaves on it, is a generous and noble proof of your humanity. Would to God a like spirit would diffuse itself generally into the minds of the people of this country, but I despair of seeing it. Some petitions were presented to the Assembly at its last session for the abolition of slavery, but they could scarcely obtain a reading." - (George Washington) Letter to the Marquis de Lafayette, May 10, 1786

Cascadia Bronco
08-16-2017, 10:25 AM
Like George Washington? He was a big part of the slave era. He owned 317 slaves. He was a Southern aristocrat, and was a proud 4th generation Virginian. He was also a great general. He probably would have led the confederate army if he was born just 75 years later. Imagine if we had to change everything named after Washington, from streets and schools to the Washington monument to the state of Washington, and the nation's capital itself. Countless places are named after that slave owner.

And what if he was born just 350 years later and led the human rebellion against the machines? Stop playing the hypothetical game. Yep, he had slaves. We should probably mention that to put history into perspective that great people can still have flaws or blemishes, and we were really ****ty to black people across the board. But he actually was a huge positive for this country and did a lot of amazing things as well, and that's why he gets statues.

People in the CSA were saying **** like this at a high level:
"The Cornerstone Speech became so known for Stephens's declaration that the perpetuation of slavery was the principal goal and purpose of the secession and the Confederacy:
"Our new government is founded upon exactly [this] idea; its foundations are laid, its corner-stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth.[1]""

These are the monuments and what they stand for. That ****ing speech and paragraph. Don't try and make excuses for them, they sure as **** weren't doing it for themselves.

Also, **** our kid gloves for the treatment of the CSA after the war:
"After his arrest and subsequent pardon for his part in the rebellion, Stephens went on to again serve in Congress and later as the 50th Governor of Georgia, shortly before his death."

Smiling Assassin27
08-16-2017, 10:28 AM
Time to change the name of the state in which Charlottesville is located.

The state of Virginia was named after England's Queen Elizabeth I. In the early 1600's, all of North America that was not Spanish or French was then called "Virginia" in honor of "The Virgin Queen," and the earliest English colonial expeditions were sent by the Virginia Company of London. Virginia became the 10th state on June 25, 1788.

Queen Lizzy just happens to be Britain's first slave trader, acknowledged as such even by the Church of England.

Cascadia Bronco
08-16-2017, 10:33 AM
Let's keep it up, shall we my lovelies:

By the way, I'm pulling these quotes from a website that says this: "Jefferson Davis was a natural leader and is highly quoted for the wisdom he displayed." So **** the people who made this stupid website I got these quotes off of.

"My own convictions as to negro slavery are strong. It has its evils and abuses...We recognize the negro as God and God's Book and God's Laws, in nature, tell us to recognize him - our inferior, fitted expressly for servitude...You cannot transform the negro into anything one-tenth as useful or as good as what slavery enables them to be."
-Jefferson Davis

"African slavery, as it exists in the United States, is a moral, a social, and a political blessing."
-Jefferson Davis

"If slavery be a sin, it is not yours. It does not rest on your action for its origin, on your consent for its existence. It is a common law right to property in the service of man; its origin was Divine decree."
-Jefferson Davis

So yeah, **** Jefferson Davis too. But, I can see why people want statues of him and schools named after him! Just remember how much heritage he had.

mhgaffney
08-16-2017, 10:34 AM
All i am saying, is i have been to civil war sites and monuments. And i felt moved by them. Even the hateful ones, that our country could be so divided we would go to war with each other with hate and malice in our hearts.

Its a very surreal experience.

I always felt it was very humbling to see Fort Sumter and Gettysburg. Even places in Jefferson City.

The US is nearly as divided today as at the start of the Civil War. This is the work of the globalists whose strategy is to keep people divided, fighting one another.

The Left has been fully coopted in this way. It has become a deep embarrassment to us Lefties from the SDS days of the 1960s.

Cascadia Bronco
08-16-2017, 10:39 AM
The US is nearly as divided today as at the start of the Civil War. This is the work of the white nationalists whose strategy is to keep people segregated, and make sure non-white people don't have rights.

The Right has been fully co-opted in this way. It has become a deep embarrassment to the world and society as a whole.

I fixed it for you.

Cascadia Bronco
08-16-2017, 10:43 AM
Also, remember when Robert E Lee was against confederate monuments?

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/robert-e-lee-opposed-confederate-monuments/

They respect him so damn much in the south!

BroncoBeavis
08-16-2017, 10:47 AM
Let's keep it up, shall we my lovelies:

By the way, I'm pulling these quotes from a website that says this: "Jefferson Davis was a natural leader and is highly quoted for the wisdom he displayed." So **** the people who made this stupid website I got these quotes off of.

"My own convictions as to negro slavery are strong. It has its evils and abuses...We recognize the negro as God and God's Book and God's Laws, in nature, tell us to recognize him - our inferior, fitted expressly for servitude...You cannot transform the negro into anything one-tenth as useful or as good as what slavery enables them to be."
-Jefferson Davis

"African slavery, as it exists in the United States, is a moral, a social, and a political blessing."
-Jefferson Davis

"If slavery be a sin, it is not yours. It does not rest on your action for its origin, on your consent for its existence. It is a common law right to property in the service of man; its origin was Divine decree."
-Jefferson Davis

So yeah, **** Jefferson Davis too. But, I can see why people want statues of him and schools named after him! Just remember how much heritage he had.

...

“Segregation is not a humiliation but a benefit, and ought to be so regarded by you gentlemen.”

-Woodrow Wilson

BroncoBeavis
08-16-2017, 10:54 AM
“If ever we are constrained to lift the hatchet against any tribe, we will never lay it down till that tribe is exterminated, or driven beyond the Mississippi… in war, they will kill some of us; we shall destroy them all.”

-Thomas Jefferson


They have neither the intelligence, the industry, the moral habits, nor the desire of improvement which are essential to any favorable change in their condition. Established in the midst of another and a superior race, and without appreciating the causes of their inferiority or seeking to control them, they must necessarily yield to the force of circumstances and ere long disappear.”

-Andrew Jackson

Burn down DC I guess.

Bronco Yoda
08-16-2017, 10:57 AM
The US is nearly as divided today as at the start of the Civil War. This is the work of the globalists whose strategy is to keep people divided, fighting one another.

The Left has been fully coopted in this way. It has become a deep embarrassment to us Lefties from the SDS days of the 1960s.

VERY TRUE!

Dumb down the public and then divide and conquer by every devilish way possible. A most machiavellian nightmare of the first order. Some of us knew that a storm was coming... but it's still somehow unbelievably when it hits.


.

Rohirrim
08-16-2017, 11:05 AM
Time to change the name of the state in which Charlottesville is located.



Queen Lizzy just happens to be Britain's first slave trader, acknowledged as such even by the Church of England.

Slavery on English soil was unsupported in English law and that position was confirmed in Somersett's Case in 1772, but it remained legal in most of the British Empire until the Slavery Abolition Act 1833.

Cascadia Bronco
08-16-2017, 11:22 AM
Burn down DC I guess.

Good thing you glanced over his VP talking about how slavery is a cornerstone of the CSA.

Let's also gloss over that even though they did some ****ty things (Andrew Jackson can **** off with the whole genocide thing) they played an integral part in the founding of our nation and moving the nation forward- and they are more than the ****ty things they did. No one gives a **** about their statues, because they have a place. Their monuments aren't monuments to rebellion against the United States or a fetishism of Antebellum South where black people got treated like ****. Also they weren't monuments built by the KKK and white supremacist groups 60 years after the war. They weren't put up to make sure black people knew their place in a society that was still targeting them and pulling them out of homes to by lynched.

They are only there for hate. There are no positives to society that these provide. History will pay more attention to the statue being torn down, than a mass produced symbol of hate.

If this is a hill you want to die on, be my guest. Stand up for the south and the white supremacy and hatred they were built for. If people start going after the founding fathers and the like, I'll stand with you. But this. Nope. Bring 'em the **** down and let's start fresh.

BroncoBeavis
08-16-2017, 11:31 AM
Good thing you glanced over his VP talking about how slavery is a cornerstone of the CSA.

Let's also gloss over that even though they did some ****ty things (Andrew Jackson can **** off with the whole genocide thing) they played an integral part in the founding of our nation and moving the nation forward- and they are more than the ****ty things they did. No one gives a **** about their statues, because they have a place. Their monuments aren't monuments to rebellion against the United States or a fetishism of Antebellum South where black people got treated like ****. Also they weren't monuments built by the KKK and white supremacist groups 60 years after the war. They weren't put up to make sure black people knew their place in a society that was still targeting them and pulling them out of homes to by lynched.

They are only there for hate. There are no positives to society that these provide. History will pay more attention to the statue being torn down, than a mass produced symbol of hate.

If this is a hill you want to die on, be my guest. Stand up for the south and the white supremacy and hatred they were built for. If people start going after the founding fathers and the like, I'll stand with you. But this. Nope. Bring 'em the **** down and let's start fresh.

I'm not really sympathetic to the segregation era reimagineering. But ultimately these decisions have to be made democratically because there's no cut and dried line that says one flawed individual can be in while another is out.

It can't be up to any and every individual roaming the streets.

Cascadia Bronco
08-16-2017, 11:39 AM
I'm not really sympathetic to the segregation era reimagineering. But ultimately these decisions have to be made democratically because there's no cut and dried line that says one flawed individual can be in while another is out.

It can't be up to any and every individual roaming the streets.

Places like NC have prevented cities from taking them down. There is a small population that is clinging to this idea of "Long live the south" and keeping these up. The one in Charlottesville was decided to be taken down by the city, but then a bunch of Nazis showed up with their confederate KKK friends and ended up killing a person and injuring a bunch more.

To be fair, if the US wouldn't have bitched out on reconstruction, a lot of this could have been avoided. We let this wound linger on for generations, and it's finally coming to a head, and people are getting sick of it. So down come the monuments that are being used as a rallying point and symbols for white supremacists, the KKK and Nazis.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
08-16-2017, 12:15 PM
Confederate monuments about hate, not heritage, say scholars

White nationalists have now “attached themselves like albatrosses” to the Confederate monument issue

On Monday, as much of the nation was grappling with the aftermath of the violent demonstrations (https://www.vox.com/2017/8/12/16138246/charlottesville-nazi-rally-right-uva) at a “Unite the Right” rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, a group of protestors in Durham, North Carolina decided to take action. A few among the crowd at an impromptu rally removed a 15-foot-tall granite-and-bronze Confederate monument (http://docsouth.unc.edu/commland/monument/118/) that stood in front of the Durham County Courthouse. Erected in 1924, the statue featured an inscription reading “In Memory of ‘The Boys Who Wore the Grey.’” The demonstrators slung a rope around the figure, toppled it (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/14/us/protesters-in-durham-topple-a-confederate-monument.html), and kicked it while playing a guitar over it (https://twitter.com/DerrickQLewis/status/897235297485901825?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=about%3Asrcdoc). Others began posing for pictures besides the fallen monument.

This spontaneous demonstration may be a harbinger of things to come. Blain Roberts, a professor of history at California State University, Fresno, and Ethan J. Kytle, a professor and colleague of Roberts, co-authored a piece on Confederate monuments for The Atlantic (http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/06/-confederate-monuments-flags-south-carolina/396836/)and are working on a book about the memory of slavery. Both scholars agree an important shift has taken place.

Roberts and Kytle see the events of the past weekend changing the tenor and debate around Confederate monuments (https://www.curbed.com/2016/2/23/11098668/monument-men-historic-preservation-and-confederate-statues), much like Dylan Roof’s horrific church shooting (https://www.vox.com/identities/2016/12/7/13868662/dylann-roof-trial-verdict-charleston-church-shooting)in Charleston in 2015 spurred the Confederate flag removal in South Carolina. Kytle says white nationalists have now “attached themselves like albatrosses” to the Confederate monument issue.

https://www.curbed.com/2017/8/15/16150826/charlottesville-confederate-monuments-historic-preservation

BroncoBeavis
08-16-2017, 12:24 PM
Places like NC have prevented cities from taking them down. There is a small population that is clinging to this idea of "Long live the south" and keeping these up. The one in Charlottesville was decided to be taken down by the city, but then a bunch of Nazis showed up with their confederate KKK friends and ended up killing a person and injuring a bunch more.

To be fair, if the US wouldn't have b****ed out on reconstruction, a lot of this could have been avoided. We let this wound linger on for generations, and it's finally coming to a head, and people are getting sick of it. So down come the monuments that are being used as a rallying point and symbols for white supremacists, the KKK and Nazis.

Many should come down. Unfortunately we'll likely swing from under-reaction to over. I think most of the earliest monuments were mostly soldiers' monuments. I'd hope those would mostly be deemed safe, but in this environment, who knows.

Arkie
08-16-2017, 01:49 PM
Now that I think about it, the Washington Redskins are offensive in two ways. I'm sure Kaep agrees. :devil:

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
08-16-2017, 03:14 PM
https://s22.postimg.org/vkhjy3xc1/IMG_6195.jpg

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
08-16-2017, 03:19 PM
Lee was a U.S. Army traitor who fought for white supremacy and an economic system built on the enslavement of another race.

There is no light in which he looks good.

No, President Trump, Washington's slaves and Lee's treason are not the same things

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/opinion-la/la-ol-trump-statues-confederacy-20170816-story.html

Blueflame
08-16-2017, 03:44 PM
I'm not really sympathetic to the segregation era reimagineering. But ultimately these decisions have to be made democratically because there's no cut and dried line that says one flawed individual can be in while another is out.

It can't be up to any and every individual roaming the streets.

Actually, I think there IS a cut and dried line: Did the individual in question intentionally aim and fire a rifle at troops representing the USA; marching under the American flag? For the Confederate generals, the answer to that question is "yes".

Rohirrim
08-16-2017, 05:51 PM
I go along with William Tecumseh Sherman's opinion: They were all a bunch of traitors.

Pontius Pirate
08-16-2017, 06:28 PM
Time to change the name of the state in which Charlottesville is located.



Queen Lizzy just happens to be Britain's first slave trader, acknowledged as such even by the Church of England.

Good luck with that one, slippery slope guy

rmsanger
08-16-2017, 06:49 PM
Lee was a U.S. Army traitor who fought for white supremacy and an economic system built on the enslavement of another race.

There is no light in which he looks good.

No, President Trump, Washington's slaves and Lee's treason are not the same things

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/opinion-la/la-ol-trump-statues-confederacy-20170816-story.html

Lee was a great general and served the US military with honor before the civil war. He chose to fight for his home state of Virginia rather than the United States.

It doesn't make the man hitler.

El Minion
08-16-2017, 07:27 PM
Lee was a great general and served the US military with honor before the civil war. He chose to fight for his home state of Virginia rather than the United States.

It doesn't make the man hitler.

Washington was commander of the Continental Army during the American Revolutionary, was a participant in the The Constitutional Convention, enforced the first American tax, the Whiskey Tax, first POTUS and set the standard for all future POTUS. Jefferson Founding Father, author of the Declaration of Independence, the third President of the United States, organized the Louisiana Purchase, founded the University of Virginia etc. Both nation creators and nation builders.

Robert Lee, attempted destroyer of USA. But lets give him participation trophy and celebrate the loser :wave:

Rohirrim
08-16-2017, 08:26 PM
Washington was commander of the Continental Army during the American Revolutionary, was a participant in the The Constitutional Convention, enforced the first American tax, the Whiskey Tax, first POTUS and set the standard for all future POTUS. Jefferson Founding Father, author of the Declaration of Independence, the third President of the United States, organized the Louisiana Purchase, founded the University of Virginia etc. Both nation creators and nation builders.

Robert Lee, attempted destroyer of USA. But lets give him participation trophy and celebrate the loser :wave:

They did build the national cemetery on his front porch. :~ohyah!:

El Minion
08-16-2017, 08:31 PM
https://i.redd.it/6mor8v72z5gz.png

Atwater His Ass
08-16-2017, 09:38 PM
Lee was a great general and served the US military with honor before the civil war. He chose to fight for his home state of Virginia rather than the United States.

It doesn't make the man hitler.

He was a man who was very much torn by the war, as many were. He was offered by Lincoln to be a general for the Union, but in the end he couldn't reconcile with himself the idea of taking up arms against his friends, neighbors and state.

The civil war wasn't a black and white issue. It tore not only the country apart, but families. It wasn't about slavery so much as it was about a way of life and state's rights vs. union's right. Lincoln said himself that if he could preseve the Union by continuing slavery and not freeing a single slave he would have done it.

Grant didn't free his slaves until he was legally bound to do so. Lee, never owned slaves during the war period. Does that make either of them better or worse human beings? You cannot judge people of the past based on the presents standards. Those that wish to do so are ignorant of the time period and aren't worth listening too.

The only thing that really separated the north from the south during this time was tragdey on both sides. It's worth rembereing history for what it was, not through the lens of hindsight. The soliders that died from the south, defending what at the time was their way of life, deserve to be remebered for their sacrifice. They had families and friends they lost just as much as the north did.

They were and are Americans.

TD4HOF
08-16-2017, 09:42 PM
He was a man who was very much torn by the war, as many were. He was offered by Lincoln to be a general for the Union, but in the end he couldn't reconcile with himself the idea of taking up arms against his friends, neighbors and state.

The civil war wasn't a black and white issue. It tore not only the country apart, but families. It wasn't about slavery so much as it was about a way of life and state's rights vs. union's right. Lincoln said himself that if he could preseve the Union by continuing slavery and not freeing a single slave he would have done it.

Grant didn't free his slaves until he was legally bound to do so. Lee, never owned slaves during the war period. Does that make either of them better or worse human beings? You cannot judge people of the past based on the presents standards. Those that wish to do so are ignorant of the time period and aren't worth listening too.

The only thing that really separated the north from the south during this time was tragdey on both sides. It's worth rembereing history for what it was, not through the lens of hindsight. The soliders that died from the south, defending what at the time was their way of life, deserve to be remebered for their sacrifice. They had families and friends they lost just as much as the north did.

They were and are Americans.

TL/DR: it was about slavery.

peacepipe
08-16-2017, 10:07 PM
Lee was a great general and served the US military with honor before the civil war. He chose to fight for his home state of Virginia rather than the United States.

It doesn't make the man hitler.

Yeah, that would make him a traitor. He gave up any honor when he attacked the United States.

ShaneFalco
08-16-2017, 10:13 PM
He was a man who was very much torn by the war, as many were. He was offered by Lincoln to be a general for the Union, but in the end he couldn't reconcile with himself the idea of taking up arms against his friends, neighbors and state.

The civil war wasn't a black and white issue. It tore not only the country apart, but families. It wasn't about slavery so much as it was about a way of life and state's rights vs. union's right. Lincoln said himself that if he could preseve the Union by continuing slavery and not freeing a single slave he would have done it.

Grant didn't free his slaves until he was legally bound to do so. Lee, never owned slaves during the war period. Does that make either of them better or worse human beings? You cannot judge people of the past based on the presents standards. Those that wish to do so are ignorant of the time period and aren't worth listening too.

The only thing that really separated the north from the south during this time was tragdey on both sides. It's worth rembereing history for what it was, not through the lens of hindsight. The soliders that died from the south, defending what at the time was their way of life, deserve to be remebered for their sacrifice. They had families and friends they lost just as much as the north did.

They were and are Americans.

yup. Like i said before.

The idiots on this forum believe every single confederate soldier held slaves.

You are arguing with people who hold up an alternate history.

ShaneFalco
08-16-2017, 10:18 PM
https://i.redd.it/6mor8v72z5gz.png

was stupid the first time you posted it.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
08-17-2017, 02:04 AM
yup. Like i said before.

The idiots on this forum believe every single confederate soldier held slaves.

You are arguing with people who hold up an alternate history.

Not the point, moron.

Each soldier fought on the side of slavery in an act of treason against the United States of America.

No surprise to find a racist maggot like you here defending slavers and secessionists.

https://s3.postimg.org/hr12vgps3/IMG_0571.jpg

Rohirrim
08-17-2017, 02:32 AM
I go along with William Tecumseh Sherman's opinion: They were all a bunch of traitors.

Oh, and Grant had one slave he inherited along with his father in law's farm who he freed in 1858.

elsid13
08-17-2017, 02:42 AM
Lee was different then those like Jefferson Davis. Lee actually told people not to build status to the Southern Cause, and didn't allow the Confederate Flag to be flown. He wanted the country to heal.

elsid13
08-17-2017, 02:43 AM
For the record Sherman was racist SOB.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
08-17-2017, 02:45 AM
Lee was a great general and served the US military with honor before the civil war. He chose to fight for his home state of Virginia rather than the United States.

It doesn't make the man hitler.

Lee is only famous for leading the confederacy.

Therefore, monuments to Lee are monuments to treason against the United States of America.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
08-17-2017, 02:47 AM
For the record Sherman was racist SOB.

He deserves credit for putting down the rebels, but after that his legacy is not a positive one.

Rohirrim
08-17-2017, 03:07 AM
For the record Sherman was racist SOB.

That's a fact. And Grant wasn't.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
08-17-2017, 03:49 AM
https://scontent.fbkk8-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20770449_10214296503876455_5029450689321257963_n.j pg?oh=4a34f0ddc9c28cfbd4faac817c7ca4ae&oe=5A1989D7

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
08-17-2017, 04:30 AM
https://scontent.fbkk8-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20799160_1227355977376437_3631883093931590667_n.jp g?oh=eb52b01e45c7c01b6b41107e67527266&oe=5A2D958B

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
08-17-2017, 09:09 AM
Next up...

https://scontent.fbkk8-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20840664_1227636834015018_1113599176374886217_n.jp g?oh=16b7ef53185fe9c09db5a2cae9c7cd93&oe=5A318689

El Minion
08-17-2017, 10:54 AM
was stupid the first time you posted it.

http://i.imgur.com/DufX1hr.jpg

El Minion
08-17-2017, 03:39 PM
http://i.imgur.com/DufX1hr.jpg

https://i.redd.it/o36fdep1mbgz.jpg

elsid13
08-17-2017, 06:50 PM
Lee is only famous for leading the confederacy.

Therefore, monuments to Lee are monuments to treason against the United States of America.

Lee was so well respected that Lincoln offered him the job of General of Army. Also he told folks not to build monuments of him. He was far more then what we make him out today.

Cascadia Bronco
08-17-2017, 07:27 PM
Lee was so well respected that Lincoln offered him the job of General of Army. Also he told folks not to build monuments of him. He was far more then what we make him out today.

Benedict Arnold did a lot of positives for the early USA in the military. Do you think he gets a bad rap too?

ShaneFalco
08-17-2017, 11:49 PM
The left is now going after Lincoln, Jefferson, and Washington statues.

Proving once again, its about destroying the foundation of this country.

ShaneFalco
08-17-2017, 11:52 PM
Al Sharpton: Let’s Abandon The Jefferson Monument Because He Owned Slaves (http://thefederalist.com/2017/08/17/al-sharpton-lets-abandon-jefferson-monument-owned-slaves/)



Idiots.

Rohirrim
08-18-2017, 12:14 AM
The left is now going after Lincoln, Jefferson, and Washington statues.

Proving once again, its about destroying the foundation of this country.

Troll. Proving once again, full of ****.

ShaneFalco
08-18-2017, 12:29 AM
Troll. Proving once again, full of ****.

Not my fault you dont want to read.

ShaneFalco
08-18-2017, 12:39 AM
Next up is statues of any slaveholder.

George Washington statues! Feel our social justice!

bump from first page of thread

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
08-18-2017, 05:15 AM
The left is now going after Lincoln, Jefferson, and Washington statues.

Proving once again, its about destroying the foundation of this country.

"The left?"

Anything else you want to pull out of your ass while you're at it? ::)

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
08-18-2017, 05:16 AM
Troll. Proving once again, full of ****.

Shane Spicoli and Choda are in a dead heat for alt-right troll of the year.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
08-18-2017, 07:12 AM
https://scontent.fbkk8-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20952969_1404845209635493_592252243275320869_n.jpg ?oh=a6f70f2fd313e2a665fecf1e5106b62e&oe=5A31EC06

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
08-20-2017, 04:29 PM
<iframe src="https://www.facebook.com/plugins/video.php?href=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fsa cramentobee%2Fvideos%2F10155098843886225%2F&show_text=0&width=476" width="476" height="476" style="border:none;overflow:hidden" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowTransparency="true" allowFullScreen="true"></iframe>

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
08-21-2017, 04:02 AM
https://s27.postimg.org/gggolq3qr/statue.jpg

Rohirrim
08-21-2017, 06:01 AM
https://s27.postimg.org/gggolq3qr/statue.jpg

Ha!

Rohirrim
08-21-2017, 06:01 AM
There was actually a time when the federal government was effective. Of course, this was before the Republican Party convinced many Americans that their government is the enemy.

The worst violence occurred in South Carolina. Grant cited “a condition of lawlessness,” declared martial law, and suspended the writ of habeas corpus. The Senate heard eloquent and wrenching testimonies of hundreds of African-Americans who had been terrorized by the Klan.

Maria Carter of Haralson County, South Carolina testified that Klansmen broke into her home, pointed a gun at her husband, and frightened him to the point that he could not speak. They forced Carter’s husband to go with them to a neighbor’s house where they assaulted a woman so ferociously that Carter remembered that the house looked “as if somebody had been killing hogs there.” The men shot and then severely whipped the woman’s husband. Carter’s husband was beaten mercilessly; his clothes were blood-soaked and the next morning, they clung to his body.

With Akerman’s oversight, 600 Klansmen were convicted and 65 men were sent to the US penitentiary in Albany for up to five years. The intervention of the federal government marked an important divergence from the norm of allowing state and local authorities to handle racial crimes. With the passage of the first Enforcement Act, Congress made it a federal offense to deprive a person of civil or political rights.

Akerman knew that destroying the Klan would require “extraordinary means.” To his mind, there was only one side in this fight, not “many.” There was no equivalence to be drawn between the Klan and the African-Americans who had been attacked and murdered.

Grant did not view the Confederates as heroes. He did not embolden them or stoke their resentment about the Confederacy’s defeat. Instead, after the Enforcement Acts were passed, he sent federal troops to the South and stated categorically that “insurgents were in rebellion against the authority of the United States.”

By 1872, the Klan had been defeated. The weight of the federal government broke the back of the organization and reduced racial violence throughout the South. Frederick Douglass declared that without Grant’s actions, black Americans likely would have been trapped in a condition similar to slavery. The violence did not end altogether, but the Klan was no longer a formidable player in American politics, nor would it be until 50 years later, when the second Klan rose in the 1920s.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/21/us-government-ku-klux-klan-charlottesville

Which is when most of these statues got built.

Guess Who
08-21-2017, 05:03 PM
By 1872, the Klan had been defeated. The weight of the federal government broke the back of the organization and reduced racial violence throughout the South. Frederick Douglass declared that without Grant’s actions, black Americans likely would have been trapped in a condition similar to slavery. The violence did not end altogether, but the Klan was no longer a formidable player in American politics, nor would it be until 50 years later, when the second Klan rose in the 1920s.[/I]
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/21/us-government-ku-klux-klan-charlottesville

Which is when most of these statues got built.

Yep, all about hatred not heritage

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
08-22-2017, 01:50 AM
https://scontent.fbkk8-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20882913_1977250328952602_8101161630712638311_n.jp g?oh=af9178cb671290327ec31f0ace3341e1&oe=5A24CE2D

ShaneFalco
08-22-2017, 07:30 AM
http://nypost.com/2017/08/17/fighting-nazis-doesnt-make-antifa-the-good-guys/


The antifa crowd has a very similar agenda with regard to American liberalism. These goons and thugs oppose free speech, celebrate violence, despise dissent and have little use for anything else in the American political tradition. But many liberals, particularly in the media, are victims of the same kind of confusion that vexed so much of American liberalism in the 20th century. Because antifa suddenly has the (alt-)right enemies, they must be the good guys.

ShaneFalco
08-22-2017, 07:32 AM
https://img.memecdn.com/antifa-in-a-nutshell_o_7097167.jpg

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
08-22-2017, 07:53 AM
https://s27.postimg.org/xamsu25ir/both_sides_2.jpg.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
08-22-2017, 08:06 AM
http://nypost.com/2017/08/17/fighting-nazis-doesnt-make-antifa-the-good-guys/

https://s27.postimg.org/9l1yj3wj7/false_equivalence.jpg

ShaneFalco
08-22-2017, 08:11 AM
http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/221/619/f2d.jpg

ShaneFalco
08-22-2017, 08:13 AM
i decided its not worth giving these people more of a platform.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
08-22-2017, 08:15 AM
Shane Spicoli is morally defective.

Otherwise, it wouldn't be necessary to explain the following...

https://s27.postimg.org/6ec0d81gz/antifa.jpg

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
08-22-2017, 09:11 AM
https://scontent.fbkk8-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20992916_1232923656819669_8719210039703558663_n.jp g?oh=02f9b58d3b84bf52ca3e05c44cc7b0d8&oe=5A1DC6C6

:~ohyah!:

Rohirrim
08-22-2017, 09:13 AM
Lee was so well respected that Lincoln offered him the job of General of Army. Also he told folks not to build monuments of him. He was far more then what we make him out today.

Lincoln never offered Lee the job. Blair may have.

ShaneFalco
08-22-2017, 09:15 AM
Lincoln never offered Lee the job. Blair may have.

Lee loved his state, his was going where his state decided to go.

TD4HOF
08-22-2017, 10:39 AM
http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/221/619/f2d.jpg

That doesn't even make any sense and I would label the "creator" as a troubled person. Not to mention those who find it worth anything.

Rohirrim
08-22-2017, 10:41 AM
Lee loved his state, his was going where his state decided to go.

And Lincoln loved his country and was determined that it would not disintegrate.

ShaneFalco
08-22-2017, 11:19 AM
And Lincoln loved his country and was determined that it would not disintegrate.

agree. Lincoln one of top 5 prez for me.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
08-22-2017, 01:59 PM
That doesn't even make any sense and I would label the "creator" as a troubled person. Not to mention those who find it worth anything.

Perfect summary of Shane Spicoli's input on this forum. :thumbsup:

elsid13
08-22-2017, 04:38 PM
Lincoln never offered Lee the job. Blair may have.

http://civilwar150th.blogspot.com/2011/04/lincoln-offers-lee-command.html

Pontius Pirate
08-22-2017, 10:05 PM
i decided its not worth giving these people more of a platform.

L O L

Shaddup you dumb b*tch