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ShaneFalco
07-14-2016, 03:50 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CnW8TXTWAAAAR8T.jpg

TRUCK PLOWS INTO CROWD, COTE D'AZUR


'BODIES EVERYWHERE' DURING BASTILLE DAY CELEBRATION


60+ dead.


https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/1447619/at-least-30-dead-as-lorry-crashes-into-crowd-of-revellers-celebrating-bastille-day-in-france-terror-attack/

Gutless Drunk
07-14-2016, 03:51 PM
WRP

Nordcore
07-14-2016, 03:56 PM
Once again my country is under attack....We are wounded but We are not afraid. **** you Isis

Smiling Assassin27
07-14-2016, 03:59 PM
Some gruesome images coming out of there. Prayers for repose, safety, and comfort.

DHallblows
07-14-2016, 04:01 PM
http://i.imgur.com/oQThwvi.png

ShaneFalco
07-14-2016, 04:01 PM
<blockquote class="twitter-video" data-lang="en"><p lang="es" dir="ltr">ALERTE : incendie au pied de la <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/TourEiffel?src=hash">#TourEiffel</a> !! Video : <a href="https://t.co/aUkmzlpyV2">pic.twitter.com/aUkmzlpyV2</a></p>&mdash; Alexis THIEBAUT (@alexisthiebaut) <a href="https://twitter.com/alexisthiebaut/status/753710743753752576">July 14, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

OABB
07-14-2016, 04:04 PM
Islam is so peaceful

Nordcore
07-14-2016, 04:05 PM
<blockquote class="twitter-video" data-lang="en"><p lang="es" dir="ltr">ALERTE : incendie au pied de la <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/TourEiffel?src=hash">#TourEiffel</a> !! Video : <a href="https://t.co/aUkmzlpyV2">pic.twitter.com/aUkmzlpyV2</a></p>&mdash; Alexis THIEBAUT (@alexisthiebaut) <a href="https://twitter.com/alexisthiebaut/status/753710743753752576">July 14, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

No news here un France about that. The attack was in Nice. At least 73dead peoples....

ShaneFalco
07-14-2016, 04:06 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CnW0n0-WEAAEoBs.jpg

ShaneFalco
07-14-2016, 04:07 PM
73 now dead

ShaneFalco
07-14-2016, 04:08 PM
This video shows the attack. very graphic.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/nice-terror-attack-horrifying-footage-8425181

Willynowei
07-14-2016, 04:09 PM
I heard this was just an accident from fireworks truck. Which one is it. Accident or attack?

ShaneFalco
07-14-2016, 04:11 PM
I heard this was just an accident from fireworks truck. Which one is it. Accident or attack?

look at the link above.

Truck driving into crowds. Definitely an attack.

DENVERDUI55
07-14-2016, 04:11 PM
Islam is so peaceful

Very peaceful.

Nordcore
07-14-2016, 04:12 PM
I heard this was just an accident from fireworks truck. Which one is it. Accident or attack?

Here in France We are pretty sure that it was an attack. The driver had a weapon and used it apparently.

ShaneFalco
07-14-2016, 04:18 PM
live news feed from skynews

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/y60wDzZt8yg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Arkie
07-14-2016, 04:19 PM
Islam is so peaceful

Do you propose we globally ban Islam?

Nordcore
07-14-2016, 04:20 PM
Nothing in Paris, it was an hoax.

ShaneFalco
07-14-2016, 04:21 PM
Yea apparently the Eiffel tower was just a fire from fireworks.

underrated29
07-14-2016, 04:21 PM
Nothing in Paris, it was an hoax.



This whole thing is a hoax?

ShaneFalco
07-14-2016, 04:23 PM
No the fire from the Eiffel tower was just an accident from fireworks.

But the truck driving into crowds was real.

Nordcore
07-14-2016, 04:23 PM
Not in Nice, at least 73 dead peoples.

underrated29
07-14-2016, 04:24 PM
So people did die and 73 or so are dead, ya?

fontaine
07-14-2016, 04:27 PM
Do you propose we globally ban Islam?

Not just Islam but any religion, ideology, belief system that permits or promotes violence against others in it's name.

Freedom of religion must also mean freedom from religion.

Maleficent
07-14-2016, 04:35 PM
Heartbreaking. The world is so evil.

Praying for the victims.

SonOfLe-loLang
07-14-2016, 04:36 PM
Humans aren't good enough for this world.

ShaneFalco
07-14-2016, 04:40 PM
so driver of truck. Started shooting, then drove about a mile into people. weapons and explosives found in truck

Punisher
07-14-2016, 04:42 PM
Humans aren't good enough for this world.

This

Broncoandrew
07-14-2016, 04:42 PM
Not just Islam but any religion, ideology, belief system that permits or promotes violence against others in it's name.

Freedom of religion must also mean freedom from religion.

Let's get a little less hasty my friend. Any ideology kills people that disagree. China and the Soviet Union were certainly not exemplars of religion and they did their fair share of mass killings. Humans kill plain and simple.

OBF1
07-14-2016, 04:46 PM
Humans aren't good enough for this world.

Yet people are breeding like roaches around the world. Great thinking parents.

SonOfLe-loLang
07-14-2016, 04:47 PM
Yet people are breeding like roaches around the world. Great thinking parents.

Well, its in our nature to do it, so thats a hard thing to fight against. We're just assholes and not equipped to live on top of each other like this

69bronco
07-14-2016, 04:49 PM
NSFW very graphic this might ruin your day Warning !!!!

Aftermath, brutal to the extreme

https://youtu.be/RXxZk97X-2s

Dr. Broncenstein
07-14-2016, 05:18 PM
Must have been an offensive cartoon or youtube video. That, or just not enough acceptance of Islam.

orinjkrush
07-14-2016, 05:24 PM
sumbitch assault weapons. oh wait.

sumbitch white heterosexual christian male racist cops. oh wait.

another damn politically-programmed human hand-grenade goes off. this time with a tractor trailer.

Willynowei
07-14-2016, 05:28 PM
Let's get a little less hasty my friend. Any ideology kills people that disagree. China and the Soviet Union were certainly not exemplars of religion and they did their fair share of mass killings. Humans kill plain and simple.

You're comparing a couple of leaders in a totalatarian regime to a religion. Do you know how absurd that is? Dictators die, ideas don't.

Miss I.
07-14-2016, 05:31 PM
Humans aren't good enough for this world.

People are assholes. Some are bigger assholes couple with psychosis. Never a good combo.

So weary of seeing the news. Prayers to the world, except ISIS and psycho assholes, you ****tards can piss up a rope and die.

Dr. Broncenstein
07-14-2016, 05:33 PM
People are a-holes. Some are bigger a-holes couple with psychosis. Never a good combo.

So weary of seeing the news. Prayers to the world, except ISIS and psycho a-holes, you ****tards can piss up a rope and die.

Those ISIS guys giving the millions of sharia law abiding muslims a bad rep.

Miss I.
07-14-2016, 05:34 PM
Those ISIS guys giving the millions of sharia law abiding muslims a bad rep.

Sterile Fields forever? sorry, just fascinated by your location and maybe the Beatles.

B-Large
07-14-2016, 05:42 PM
Thoughts and Prayers.


See, I care after all.

El Minion
07-14-2016, 05:50 PM
NSFW, graphic (http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=814_1468533717)

rmsanger
07-14-2016, 06:00 PM
Passing on the vids guys... Don't derive kicks from watching people die.

:thumbsdow

ShaneFalco
07-14-2016, 06:02 PM
so a truck killed as many people as an assault rifle.

Kind of crazy how they will use just about anything to kill others.

Punisher
07-14-2016, 06:07 PM
Passing on the vids guys... Don't derive kicks from watching people die.

:thumbsdow

This

ZONA
07-14-2016, 06:16 PM
Those ISIS guys giving the millions of sharia law abiding muslims a bad rep.

Just because Sharia law might be in their book doesn't mean they all follow it to the vest. Do you follow every single last word of the Bible to the vest? I think not.

The Bible cracks me up sometimes. I mean, why is an ox more valuable then a sheep? LMAO

Exodus 22:1-31 - If a man shall steal an ox, or a sheep, and kill it, or sell it; he shall restore five oxen for an ox, and four sheep for a sheep.

Dr. Broncenstein
07-14-2016, 06:18 PM
**** Islam and every one of its apologists.

RonMexico
07-14-2016, 06:21 PM
Just because Sharia law might be in their book doesn't mean they all follow it to the vest. Do you follow every single last word of the Bible to the vest? I think not.

The Bible cracks me up sometimes. I mean, why is an ox more valuable then a sheep? LMAO

Exodus 22:1-31 - If a man shall steal an ox, or a sheep, and kill it, or sell it; he shall restore five oxen for an ox, and four sheep for a sheep.

Those are Bronze Age Jewish laws. That's the Septaugint, only a prelude to the important stuff for Christians and modern Jews.

Willynowei
07-14-2016, 06:38 PM
Just because Sharia law might be in their book doesn't mean they all follow it to the vest. Do you follow every single last word of the Bible to the vest? I think not.

The Bible cracks me up sometimes. I mean, why is an ox more valuable then a sheep? LMAO

Exodus 22:1-31 - If a man shall steal an ox, or a sheep, and kill it, or sell it; he shall restore five oxen for an ox, and four sheep for a sheep.

Probably because that verse was written when agriculture was the backbone of the economy and an ox helped in transporting goods and plowing fields

FlaBroncosFan
07-14-2016, 06:39 PM
**** Islam and every one of its apologists.

This

OBF1
07-14-2016, 07:06 PM
Reminds me a little bit of the 1984 Westwood/Olympics killings.


Guess it is time to push for tighter Truck control. Like I have been saying, If not guns they will find another way to kill.

69bronco
07-14-2016, 07:07 PM
so a truck killed as many people as an assault rifle.

Kind of crazy how they will use just about anything to kill others.

as many people? The truck has killed more people than any single person has with a gun has in any mass murder.


And 100% agree with the doc and flabroncofan, **** Islam, their ideology will be this earth's demise.

broncocalijohn
07-14-2016, 07:26 PM
Yet people are breeding like roaches around the world. Great thinking parents.

They aren't in France except those that are immigrants. White French (and I guess black French too) would be the minority in a generation or so.

RonMexico
07-14-2016, 07:27 PM
Reminds me a little bit of the 1984 Westwood/Olympics killings.


Guess it is time to push for tighter Truck control. Like I have been saying, If not guns they will find another way to kill.

We'll have to create a terrorist....oops, I meant extremist....watch list and prevent "extremists" from having drivers licenses.

RonMexico
07-14-2016, 07:30 PM
Death toll has risen to 80.

Suspect is an immigrant from Tunisia.

oubronco
07-14-2016, 07:33 PM
Has Obumma blamed the truck yet?

Garcia Bronco
07-14-2016, 07:39 PM
Once again my country is under attack....We are wounded but We are not afraid. **** you Isis

We are with you Nordcore. Viva La France

ShaneFalco
07-14-2016, 08:02 PM
so they think based on the amount of weapons found, some people have speculated that, he was going to drive thru the crowd, meet up with others who would then use the weapons on the people left.

Some have said this was a coordinated group attack that was stopped early.

ColoradoDarin
07-14-2016, 08:08 PM
Just because Sharia law might be in their book doesn't mean they all follow it to the vest. Do you follow every single last word of the Bible to the vest? I think not.

The Bible cracks me up sometimes. I mean, why is an ox more valuable then a sheep? LMAO

Exodus 22:1-31 - If a man shall steal an ox, or a sheep, and kill it, or sell it; he shall restore five oxen for an ox, and four sheep for a sheep.

You seem confused, this might be some help to you:

What is the difference between the ceremonial law, the moral law, and the judicial law in the Old Testament? (http://www.gotquestions.org/ceremonial-law.html)

retro
07-14-2016, 08:14 PM
Another sermon from the religion of peace. How man dead offering to Allah this time? How many before the world realizes we are at war with radical Islamic terrorism.

oubronco
07-14-2016, 08:26 PM
Another sermon from the religion of peace. How man dead offering to Allah this time? How many before the world realizes we are at war with radical Islamic terrorism.

Let's just bring them over here cause they are a peaceful people and all

pricejj
07-14-2016, 08:32 PM
It's going to get real interesting when Iran gets nukes.

RonMexico
07-14-2016, 08:54 PM
This is just the religion of peace carrying out peaceful protests.

kappys
07-14-2016, 09:01 PM
It's going to get real interesting when Iran gets nukes.

So far there haven't been any attacks from Shia Muslims I am aware of. I remain much more concerned about nukes in Sunni Pakistani hands

OABB
07-14-2016, 09:17 PM
Do you propose we globally ban Islam?

Yes. Or genocide

Bigdawg26
07-14-2016, 09:18 PM
Has Obumma blamed the truck yet?

No but it's only a matter of time before he gets blamed for it though.

RonMexico
07-14-2016, 09:26 PM
Yes. Or genocide

Um...

OABB
07-14-2016, 09:31 PM
Um...

Has to be said. Disavow sharia law or be beheaded. Problem solved

Meck77
07-14-2016, 09:38 PM
Tragic. Seems to be very little overall reaction across the internet. Trucks dont seem to get people moved like an ar-15 debate.

The question is this. How do you stop trucks from slamming into parades and people all across America in the future? You don't need a background check to rent a U-Haul. $99 bucks or so and anyone is barreling down the road. Unreal.

jacob2125
07-14-2016, 09:45 PM
Extremist Muslims are no better than the nazis, if they had their way they'd exterminate everyone who didn't convert to their religion. It baffles me that we really haven't taken on this threat head on. Whe're just sitting on our thumbs and fighting amongst ourselves like imbicils.

bronco militia
07-14-2016, 09:45 PM
http://i.imgur.com/oQThwvi.png

:militia:

Bronc0guy
07-14-2016, 09:47 PM
NSFW, graphic (http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=814_1468533717)

That just makes my heart hurt. What is wrong with this world....

RonMexico
07-14-2016, 09:48 PM
Tragic. Seems to be very little overall reaction across the internet. Trucks dont seem to get people moved like an ar-15 debate.

The question is this. How do you stop trucks from slamming into parades and people all across America in the future? You don't need a background check to rent a U-Haul. $99 bucks or so and anyone is barreling down the road. Unreal.

The French media is slow-rolling out information. We don't know much about the killer. That could be for a couple of reasons: to shelve the radical Islam narrative and/or to help in the investigation that may include others trying to flee France.

OBF1
07-14-2016, 10:01 PM
Tragic. Seems to be very little overall reaction across the internet. Trucks dont seem to get people moved like an ar-15 debate.

The question is this. How do you stop trucks from slamming into parades and people all across America in the future? You don't need a background check to rent a U-Haul. $99 bucks or so and anyone is barreling down the road. Unreal.

The answer is you can not stop it, Just as you can not stop the shootings. There are already a BILLION+ guns in the world, they will never disappear not matter what laws/regulations you make or have. If all guns magically disappeared over night, murders/terrorists would just go back to old fashion ways to kill and it will never end.

I think we are going to start seeing more and more of these different killing tactics in the future, make the sheep even more afraid than they already are... But that is what Terrorism is all about.

broncocalijohn
07-14-2016, 10:30 PM
80 killed with a truck? Yeah, more of these are coming. Then it will explode when it crashes into a building and bringing part of it down killing another 250. This with just 1 or 2 radical muslims.

tsmarine1
07-14-2016, 10:35 PM
First I am not Christian.But I dealt with Assyrians and Chaldeans and I dealt with the "pro" American muslim Iraqis....like the Kurds(Kurds are mostly Sunni the worst terror groups are Sunni) etc....there is a massive difference between how christian Iraqis act over there vs muslim Iraqis.There are no real "pro" America muslims over there they all have an agenda and will do whatever it takes at the time for it to be pushed...for their ethnic group to have power and control.They will all kill you without blinking an eye.

The Christian Iraqis were always meek and mild people.Our platoon was under fire once and didn't get any help from the Kurds in the area...it was a group of Christians that gave us shelter and I'll always remember that.We were told a month later most of those Christians were killed and houses burnt to the ground...the rumor we heard was by the Kurds.The Kurds "protect" the Christians in the north because they are cheap labor but I guess you do what you have to do in that hell hole.

So no all religions are not the issue here...it's what's being taught by said religion that is the issue...and one that's taking over the world produces parasites.

JoshMcDanielsIsTheDevil
07-14-2016, 10:41 PM
Humans aren't good enough for this world.

"Cause I'm praying for rain
I'm praying for tidal waves
I wanna see the ground give way.
I wanna watch it all go down.
Mom, please flush it all away.
I wanna see it go right in down.
I wanna watch it go right in.
Watch you flush it all away."

LongDongJohnson
07-14-2016, 10:55 PM
Soon Europe will be a predominantly Muslim continent

RonMexico
07-14-2016, 11:15 PM
"Cause I'm praying for rain
I'm praying for tidal waves
I wanna see the ground give way.
I wanna watch it all go down.
Mom, please flush it all away.
I wanna see it go right in down.
I wanna watch it go right in.
Watch you flush it all away."

Wow...sounds like the radical Islam perspective. Maynard writing for ISIS?

JoshMcDanielsIsTheDevil
07-14-2016, 11:31 PM
Wow...sounds like the radical Islam perspective. Maynard writing for ISIS?

There is no god but progressive metal and MJK is his messenger.

Nordcore
07-15-2016, 01:42 AM
We are with you Nordcore. Viva La France

Thank you... Sad day again

Bigdawg26
07-15-2016, 04:22 AM
Soon Europe will be a predominantly Muslim continent

Not that there is anything wrong with being Muslim right?

Rohirrim
07-15-2016, 04:34 AM
Islam is a murder cult, and has been for a very long time.

<iframe width="854" height="480" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/CADoG-gu5Zk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Rohirrim
07-15-2016, 05:02 AM
You can't handle the truth:

<iframe width="854" height="480" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/bIUyMwOJ3aw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Bronx33
07-15-2016, 06:22 AM
The problem isn't going away the question is how long before governments take necessary steps to exterminate these animals? Until then people die.

Bronx33
07-15-2016, 06:32 AM
That just makes my heart hurt. What is wrong with this world....

I am not even going too watch it .

Tombstone RJ
07-15-2016, 07:06 AM
This is really sad. I hope the people of France wake up before Islamic extremists detonates an atomic bomb in Paris.

69bronco
07-15-2016, 07:11 AM
Is it just me or is this attack getting swept under the rug by the US media cause there wasn't a gun involved or it probably helps trump get more supporters? I know they've all mentioned it or had a story but the local news website I frequent doesn't even have a story about on their mobile site right now.

Either way I think I'm done going anywhere where there is big crowds. you couldn't pay me to go down to the olympics with one of those dudes Obama freed from gitmo missing down there right now.. It's not a question of will there be another terrorist attack it's a question of will it today, next week. Or the week after that.

jacob2125
07-15-2016, 07:26 AM
Is it just me or is this attack getting swept under the rug by the US media cause there wasn't a gun involved or it probably helps trump get more supporters? I know they've all mentioned it or had a story but the local news website I frequent doesn't even have a story about on their mobile site right now.

Either way I think I'm done going anywhere where there is big crowds. you couldn't pay me to go down to the olympics with one of those dudes Obama freed from gitmo missing down there right now.. It's not a question of will there be another terrorist attack it's a question of will it today, next week. Or the week after that.

Well it didn't involve gun violence or a black man being killed by a cop so what do you expect?

It's sad that I turn on the news every day expecting something like this to have happened instead of being shocked. It's ironic though that the countries that have been the most accepting of Muslims are the ones that are getting the majority of the attacks.

FlaBroncosFan
07-15-2016, 07:37 AM
Well it didn't involve gun violence or a black man being killed by a cop so what do you expect?

It's sad that I turn on the news every day expecting something like this to have happened instead of being shocked. It's ironic though that the countries that have been the most accepting of Muslims are the ones that are getting the majority of the attacks.

And we're supposed to accept refugees from Syria. I have no confidence in our government's ability to distinguish the good from the bad right now.

SleepingTiger
07-15-2016, 07:54 AM
Well it didn't involve gun violence or a black man being killed by a cop so what do you expect?

It's sad that I turn on the news every day expecting something like this to have happened instead of being shocked. It's ironic though that the countries that have been the most accepting of Muslims are the ones that are getting the majority of the attacks.

I heard there is a movement to ban all 18 wheelers.

Chris
07-15-2016, 08:24 AM
I've walked the promenade 30 times I'd say (my parents live there). Sad day for Nice, France and the civilised world. Just a sad drop in an amazing ocean of collaboration and optimism we call society.

maven
07-15-2016, 08:28 AM
I've walked the promenade 30 times I'd say (my parents live there). Sad day for Nice, France and the civilised world. Just a sad drop in an amazing ocean of collaboration and optimism we call society.

Walked it myself as well. It's like of all places... Nice?

TonyR
07-15-2016, 08:32 AM
I hope the people of France wake up...

Just curious as to why you think the French aren't "awake"?

SonOfLe-loLang
07-15-2016, 08:45 AM
i think its funny that people think government can do much about lone wolves. This is just our new reality.

Pony Boy
07-15-2016, 09:03 AM
i think its funny that people think government can do much about lone wolves. This is just our new reality.

It's good to see you realize that government gun control has nothing to do with these idiots.

SonOfLe-loLang
07-15-2016, 09:08 AM
It's good to see you realize that government gun control has nothing to do with these idiots.

I personally don't think arming people to the teeth is ever the right answer, but no gun control is gonna stop this ****.

SleepingTiger
07-15-2016, 09:18 AM
i think its funny that people think government can do much about lone wolves. This is just our new reality.

these lone wolves are sometimes trained by isis. these lone wolves get their hate from isis.

get rid of these terrorist group, these idiots wont have anyone to influence them to do crap like this.

Dr. Broncenstein
07-15-2016, 09:25 AM
Islam is what radicalizes these assholes. Islam is the enemy.

Tombstone RJ
07-15-2016, 09:33 AM
Just curious as to why you think the French aren't "awake"?

This is the 3rd major Islamic terrorist attack in 3 years and the second within the last 6 months? How about stopping the influx of radicals coming up the terrorist pipeline through Turkey? How about saying, no more immigrants (all people so as not to appear wacist!!!) until the attacks stop?

Bronco Yoda
07-15-2016, 09:51 AM
First I am not Christian.But I dealt with Assyrians and Chaldeans and I dealt with the "pro" American muslim Iraqis....like the Kurds(Kurds are mostly Sunni the worst terror groups are Sunni) etc....there is a massive difference between how christian Iraqis act over there vs muslim Iraqis.There are no real "pro" America muslims over there they all have an agenda and will do whatever it takes at the time for it to be pushed...for their ethnic group to have power and control.They will all kill you without blinking an eye.

The Christian Iraqis were always meek and mild people.Our platoon was under fire once and didn't get any help from the Kurds in the area...it was a group of Christians that gave us shelter and I'll always remember that.We were told a month later most of those Christians were killed and houses burnt to the ground...the rumor we heard was by the Kurds.The Kurds "protect" the Christians in the north because they are cheap labor but I guess you do what you have to do in that hell hole.

So no all religions are not the issue here...it's what's being taught by said religion that is the issue...and one that's taking over the world produces parasites.

thx for sharing that :thumbs:

Willynowei
07-15-2016, 09:54 AM
I can't think of a single Muslim majority secular state (in all of human history) where the residents lived in peace with each other.

Yet, there's been plenty of secular states with predominate Christian or Buddhist populations. How many Muslim intellectuals have ever advocated separation of church and state?

That religion is a poison.

SonOfLe-loLang
07-15-2016, 09:55 AM
It's not about stopping "lone wolves". It's about stopping a poisonous ideology that breeds these "lone wolves" with regularity.

I agree, but good luck stopping that as an outside force. I'm a firm believer that that ****s only going to be stopped from within. Defeating terrorist groups is like whack a mole. Eliminate one, another will pop up. I have no clue how you stop that.

Bronco Yoda
07-15-2016, 10:11 AM
Islam is what radicalizes these a-holes. Islam is the enemy.

You need to go further... It's those who are using Islam as a weapon.

Sure... Islam is a perfectly designed tool for such a job... but it's still just a tool. If this tool was blunted, the 'carpenters' would simply grab for another tool. wink:

TerrElway
07-15-2016, 10:31 AM
The end goal is a global caliphate and a hastening of the Islamic version of Armageddon. You just get the feeling that the radicals will continue to inflict heinous attacks around the world, hoping to draw western powers into actual open conflict. Then they can frame it to the rest of the muslim world as an infidel v. muslim conflict and that the infidels are trying to destroy them and they will finally have an all out global war.

How many more attacks like this before the call for action becomes so deafening, that we start seeing things like interment camps? Before other groups start to take the law into their own hands against the Islamic community? That is exactly what the radical groups want, with the hope that it will spur all of Islam, not just the radicals into open Jihad.

There is no simple answer but it is certain that the Islam Question looms large over the entire western world.

TonyR
07-15-2016, 10:32 AM
I agree, but good luck stopping that as an outside force. I'm a firm believer that that ****s only going to be stopped from within. Defeating terrorist groups is like whack a mole. Eliminate one, another will pop up. I have no clue how you stop that.

Yup. Put radical Islam on the list with cancer, drugs, poverty, and global warming. There's no simple solution. And, worse, perhaps no solution.

Meck77
07-15-2016, 10:34 AM
We should have just let Israel smash Iraq before gulf war 1. The argument then was if Israel defended itself against Saddam's scuds it would cause a bigger war. Well it's a big ass war now.

Sadly it seems just a matter of time before the east coast gets really hit again.

My generation. I guess we were called x will be the last to really remember what a terrorist free life in America was like.

Football stadiums, baseball games, parades, weddings churches are all likely to be targets from now on.

What a mess.

Tombstone RJ
07-15-2016, 10:46 AM
Islamic nations respect one thing (as do socialist totalitarian regimes like North Korea)--POWER! They only respect you if they know you will destroy them if they mess with you. Whether you like it or not, IF we want to defeat Islamic terrorism we have to take the fight to them. Period. End of story. We have to attack and annihilate them in their territories. And as for terrorist cells within, we have to expose them and prosecute them or deport them before they attack. We have to destroy Islamic terrorists wherever they are. Once this happens, I guarantee you they will be much more likely to sit down and actually negotiate or talk about peace.

But they only respect power. That's it. We have negotiate from the position of power. Obama has done the exact opposite.

jacob2125
07-15-2016, 11:28 AM
Islamic nations respect one thing (as do socialist totalitarian regimes like North Korea)--POWER! They only respect you if they know you will destroy them if they mess with you. Whether you like it or not, IF we want to defeat Islamic terrorism we have to take the fight to them. Period. End of story. We have to attack and annihilate them in their territories. And as for terrorist cells within, we have to expose them and prosecute them or deport them before they attack. We have to destroy Islamic terrorists wherever they are. Once this happens, I guarantee you they will be much more likely to sit down and actually negotiate or talk about peace.

But they only respect power. That's it. We have negotiate from the position of power. Obama has done the exact opposite.

I agree with all of this but especially the part about taking the fight to them instead of just sitting on our asses and taking sucker punches while we call for more gun control and bull**** like that. Don't hold back with these ****ers. If they want to come onto our turf and cause problems then we need to go into their house and just **** **** up. And any douche that gets caught supporting these assholes needs to be deported to the middle of the ****ing Sahara desert with nothing but a bottle of sun screen and a copy of the Koran.

TonyR
07-15-2016, 11:32 AM
Islamic nations respect one thing (as do socialist totalitarian regimes like North Korea)--POWER!

Most available evidence suggests that your suggestion is incorrect. And radical Islam is not a nation-state issue, assuming you understand the concept of a nation-state as opposed to a religion and/or a terrorist organization.

Bronco Yoda
07-15-2016, 11:35 AM
I agree with all of this but especially the part about taking the fight to them instead of just sitting on our asses and taking sucker punches while we call for more gun control and bull**** like that. Don't hold back with these ****ers. If they want to come onto our turf and cause problems then we need to go into their house and just **** **** up. And any douche that gets caught supporting these a-holes needs to be deported to the middle of the ****ing Sahara desert with nothing but a bottle of sun screen and a copy of the Koran.

You're saying then French then should be taking it to them... right?

jacob2125
07-15-2016, 11:44 AM
You're saying then French then should be taking it to them... right?

Doggie style.

Bronco Yoda
07-15-2016, 11:49 AM
People need to keep this tragedy in perspective before going off the deep end and letting fear take control !!!

• 151,600 people die each day
• 6,316 people die each hour
• 105 people die each minute
• Nearly two people die each second

France is a 6,000 KM swim across the Alantic Ocean.

SonOfLe-loLang
07-15-2016, 11:52 AM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/inside-isis-quietly-preparing-for-the-loss-of-the-caliphate/2016/07/12/9a1a8a02-454b-11e6-8856-f26de2537a9d_story.html

Lots more "lone wolves" incoming, LeLo and Tony

And yet its not some massive attack on american soil. I also think they are opportunistic and just take credit for **** when they had nothing to do with it. I wouldn't trust anything coming out of their mouths.

Also, I'm not saying don't fight ISIS. Obviously we need to. I just think fighting an ideology is next to impossible. That needs to come from within.

jacob2125
07-15-2016, 11:53 AM
People need to keep this tragedy in perspective before going off the deep end and letting fear take control !!!

• 151,600 people die each day
• 6,316 people die each hour
• 105 people die each minute
• Nearly two people die each second

France is a 6,000 KM swim across the Alantic Ocean.

Someone should tell this to the families of the victims of the Nice and Orlando massacres. I mean, hey, people die every day right? It's not a big deal.

RepentWalpurgis
07-15-2016, 12:02 PM
I saw a headline that said Nice Truck Killer.

SonOfLe-loLang
07-15-2016, 12:04 PM
Hilarious!

I don't know why this is laughable. What in our brief history of fighting terrorists has exterminated them? You really think if we eliminate ISIS tomorrow, more won't pop up?

Im not saying i know an answer or that there is an answer. But its total whack a mole.

And as far as the orlando killing, i don't think ISIS had much to do with that. Doesn't seem to fit their profile. I think it was just some self hating gay dude who found an ideology to cover his shame.

SonOfLe-loLang
07-15-2016, 12:15 PM
You have a known ISIS sympathizer raised in a pro-Taliban culture, associated with other ISIS members, who makes MULTIPLE calls during a mass killing saying over and over and over again that he's doing it in the name of ISIS, and then afterward ISIS claims responsibility

...And you say "I mean, who knows why this 'Lone Wolf' did it"

It is an absolutely astounding level of ignorance.


How is this ignorance? I don't think they aren't a threat. I do question why you'd believe everything that comes from their mouths though. I think a lot of people cling to ideology because of mental problems. And, yes, i do think ISIS will claim responsibility for these things regardless because its good for business.

And, again, the main point is there's no real way of stopping an ideology. You could get rid of ISIS tomorrow and more will pop up. Also, how are you going to exterminate the ones in our country? "Ban all the muslims?" Round them up and put them into camps? Of course not. And if you did, well, there's just more fuel for their fire.

Welcome to our new reality.

Also, where are the known links to ISIS? Where did you get that info from... i can't find any

Arkie
07-15-2016, 12:17 PM
The terrorists in Orlando and Nice were both locals that had multiple run-ins with the police. How do you stop these guys if the police can't even detect them while in direct contact?

rmsanger
07-15-2016, 12:24 PM
American is now a giant conglomeration of special interest minority groups bent on blaming opposition.

There are very limited special interest groups here that are Pro French or Anti box truck.

When it doesn't ring a common bell it falls to back page fodder for the Murican tele.

ColoradoDarin
07-15-2016, 12:28 PM
Why the terrorists are winning the intelligence war (http://atimes.com/2016/07/why-the-terrorists-are-winning-the-intelligence-war/)

Yet another criminal known to security services has perpetrated a mass killing, the Tunisian Mohamed Lahouaiej-Bouhlel. Why did the French police allow a foreign national with a criminal record of violence to reside in France? Apart from utter incompetence, the explanation is that he was a snitch for the French authorities. Blackmailing Muslim criminals to inform on prospective terrorists is the principal activity of European counter-terrorism agencies, as I noted in 2015. Every Muslim in Europe knows this.

The terrorists, though, have succeeded in turning the police agents sent to spy on them and forcing them to commit suicide attacks to expiate their sins. This has become depressingly familiar; as Ryan Gallagher reported recently, perpetrators already known to the authorities committed ten of the highest-profile attacks between 2013 and 2015.

The terrorists, in other words, are adding insult to injury. By deploying police snitches as suicide attackers, terrorists assert their moral superiority and power over western governments. The message may be lost on the western public, whose security agencies and media do their best to obscure it, but it is well understood among the core constituencies of the terrorist groups: the superiority of Islam turns around the depraved criminals whom the western police send to spy on us, and persuades them to become martyrs for the cause of Islam.

pricejj
07-15-2016, 12:35 PM
Why the terrorists are winning the intelligence war (http://atimes.com/2016/07/why-the-terrorists-are-winning-the-intelligence-war/)

Yet another reason why EU is a complete failure.

Bronco Yoda
07-15-2016, 12:38 PM
Someone should tell this to the families of the victims of the Nice and Orlando massacres. I mean, hey, people die every day right? It's not a big deal.

Is it fair to say you just spent at least 45 seconds on this brain fart? During that time approximately 90 people died on this earth.

Are you going to cry to their families as well? Of course you're not. Spare us your crocodile tears.... ok?

pricejj
07-15-2016, 12:45 PM
...And then we ghosted and gave them free advanced weapons

Thanks Obama and Hillary!

This is what is most incomprehensible about the entire ISIS campaign. These losers have spread across North Africa after Obama and Hillary's Arab Spring. Just complete ineptitude.

Dr.5280
07-15-2016, 01:08 PM
This is what is most incomprehensible about the entire ISIS campaign. These losers have spread across North Africa after Obama and Hillary's Arab Spring. Just complete ineptitude.

G.W. Bush, Dick Cheney, Halliburton and others were not mentioned.

ColoradoDarin
07-15-2016, 01:23 PM
G.W. Bush, Dick Cheney, Halliburton and others were not mentioned.

Because they won Gulf War 2 then Obama came in a screwed up (on purpose?) the SoFa leading the aforementioned vacuum?

TimHippo
07-15-2016, 01:46 PM
This is what is most incomprehensible about the entire ISIS campaign. These losers have spread across North Africa after Obama and Hillary's Arab Spring. Just complete ineptitude.

Yup. The way we handled the Arab Spring was a colossal ButtFumble.

Smiling Assassin27
07-15-2016, 01:47 PM
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Man armed with a machete storms vigil for Victims of the <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/NiceAttack?src=hash">#NiceAttack</a> <a href="https://t.co/8wdJjDJhuf">https://t.co/8wdJjDJhuf</a> <a href="https://t.co/dJA8t4p6S6">pic.twitter.com/dJA8t4p6S6</a></p>&mdash; The Sun (@TheSun) <a href="https://twitter.com/TheSun/status/754048031000039426">July 15, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Time to do something, France. Pretending it will go away on its own is getting your people killed.

broncocalijohn
07-15-2016, 02:02 PM
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Man armed with a machete storms vigil for Victims of the <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/NiceAttack?src=hash">#NiceAttack</a> <a href="https://t.co/8wdJjDJhuf">https://t.co/8wdJjDJhuf</a> <a href="https://t.co/dJA8t4p6S6">pic.twitter.com/dJA8t4p6S6</a></p>&mdash; The Sun (@TheSun) <a href="https://twitter.com/TheSun/status/754048031000039426">July 15, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Time to do something, France. Pretending it will go away on its own is getting your people killed.

Agree. They need to take the offense as does our country. First things first, get machete free zones.

RonMexico
07-15-2016, 02:09 PM
American is now a giant conglomeration of special interest minority groups bent on blaming opposition.

There are very limited special interest groups here that are Pro French or Anti box truck.

When it doesn't ring a common bell it falls to back page fodder for the Murican tele.
Truth

RonMexico
07-15-2016, 02:15 PM
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Man armed with a machete storms vigil for Victims of the <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/NiceAttack?src=hash">#NiceAttack</a> <a href="https://t.co/8wdJjDJhuf">https://t.co/8wdJjDJhuf</a> <a href="https://t.co/dJA8t4p6S6">pic.twitter.com/dJA8t4p6S6</a></p>&mdash; The Sun (@TheSun) <a href="https://twitter.com/TheSun/status/754048031000039426">July 15, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Time to do something, France. Pretending it will go away on its own is getting your people killed.

Yeah, they'll have their own Trump soon. They're so far down the failed multiculti road that they'll face some real internal violence when the pro-Western French leaders rise and begin reaffirming the population. It won't be pretty.

Ignoring the reality that there is a real and tangible culture clash is putting regular citizens at risk.

Tombstone RJ
07-15-2016, 02:38 PM
Most available evidence suggests that your suggestion is incorrect. And radical Islam is not a nation-state issue, assuming you understand the concept of a nation-state as opposed to a religion and/or a terrorist organization.

Wrong, just look at Turkey, it's crumbling and a NATO Allie... I'm sure Obama has a plan.

Nordcore
07-15-2016, 03:01 PM
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Man armed with a machete storms vigil for Victims of the <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/NiceAttack?src=hash">#NiceAttack</a> <a href="https://t.co/8wdJjDJhuf">https://t.co/8wdJjDJhuf</a> <a href="https://t.co/dJA8t4p6S6">pic.twitter.com/dJA8t4p6S6</a></p>&mdash; The Sun (@TheSun) <a href="https://twitter.com/TheSun/status/754048031000039426">July 15, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Time to do something, France. Pretending it will go away on its own is getting your people killed.

Just à lunatic apparently, he is in jail.

Bronx33
07-15-2016, 03:23 PM
Just à lunatic apparently, he is in jail.

He hurt anybody?

Bronx33
07-15-2016, 03:24 PM
Wrong, just look at Turkey, it's crumbling and a NATO Allie... I'm sure Obama has a plan.

Buying a new 5 iron Hilarious!

Nordcore
07-15-2016, 03:25 PM
He hurt anybody?

No

Bronx33
07-15-2016, 03:27 PM
No

good to hear...

RepentWalpurgis
07-15-2016, 03:28 PM
How do you run over 100 people without high-centering on the bodies?

Bronx33
07-15-2016, 03:32 PM
How do you run over 100 people without high-centering on the bodies?

speed

Ol#7
07-15-2016, 03:47 PM
How do you run over 100 people without high-centering on the bodies?

I don't know how many people he ran over, but it was a pedestrian area, probably dimly lit since fireworks had ended, and he was armed to the teeth, and commenced firing on said crowd. Heard today that this is an actual attack idea that these bastards had suggested previously. France is completely melting down. Not surprised, when I was in Paris in 2010, might as well have been the middle east. Burkha clad women everywhere. Was shocking in 5 or 6 years between visits the transformation of citizenry that had occurred.

pricejj
07-15-2016, 03:53 PM
Yup. The way we handled the Arab Spring was a colossal ButtFumble.

Obama and Hillary CREATED the Arab Spring. Let's oust every leader in the Middle East, give radical extremists a bunch of money and weapons, then just disappear!

RepentWalpurgis
07-15-2016, 03:54 PM
I don't know how many people he ran over, but it was a pedestrian area, probably dimly lit since fireworks had ended, and he was armed to the teeth, and commenced firing on said crowd. Heard today that this is an actual attack idea that these bastards had suggested previously. France is completely melting down. Not surprised, when I was in Paris in 2010, might as well have been the middle east. Burkha clad women everywhere. Was shocking in 5 or 6 years between visits the transformation of citizenry that had occurred.



Ah. Thanks.

elsid13
07-15-2016, 04:03 PM
Obama and Hillary CREATED the Arab Spring. Let's oust every leader in the Middle East, give radical extremists a bunch of money and weapons, then just disappear!

No a guy in Tunisia was the spark and current administration had nothing to do with it.

http://guides.library.cornell.edu/c.php?g=31688&p=200750

Al Wilson
07-15-2016, 05:24 PM
Look at the bigger picture here folks. If the USA never invaded Iraq, there would be no such thing as ISIS. This is all a game. It's a political game involving money and power. The USA invaded and took over Iraq in about 2 weeks. ISIS came into north Iraq (about two hundred individuals), and they let them take over half that country. Where's all their weapons and machinery from? The USA.

USA puts Saddam Hussein in power, supports Bin Ladin 20 years ago, and all that other ****. Who's the real instigator here? I'm just a realist.

RepentWalpurgis
07-15-2016, 06:13 PM
Look at the bigger picture here folks. If the USA never invaded Iraq, there would be no such thing as ISIS. This is all a game. It's a political game involving money and power. The USA invaded and took over Iraq in about 2 weeks. ISIS came into north Iraq (about two hundred individuals), and they let them take over half that country. Where's all their weapons and machinery from? The USA.

USA puts Saddam Hussein in power, supports Bin Ladin 20 years ago, and all that other ****. Who's the real instigator here? I'm just a realist.



Agree. Sadam staying in power was in our best interests. Anyway, since when don't we support brutal dictators?

tsmarine1
07-15-2016, 06:18 PM
You folks do understand that both the Sunni and Shiites believe in bringing the Mahdi to earth right?They just have different approaches to doing that.Once you understand that this is what it's all about then you start to see things much better.

broncocalijohn
07-15-2016, 06:41 PM
You folks do understand that both the Sunni and Shiites believe in bringing the Mahdi to earth right?They just have different approaches to doing that.Once you understand that this is what it's all about then you start to see things much better.

why did you switch your name by starting a new account?

DenverBroncosJM
07-15-2016, 09:43 PM
**** Muhammad and his flying horse

pricejj
07-15-2016, 10:31 PM
Hillary already gifted them the Uranium for $140 million

jesus

pricejj
07-15-2016, 10:40 PM
No a guy in Tunisia was the spark and current administration had nothing to do with it.

http://guides.library.cornell.edu/c.php?g=31688&p=200750

No, I said Obama and Hillary created the Arab Spring and gave ISIS power (when they had none). What you are witnessing now is a direct manifestation of their utterly fatal foreign policy.

SoCalBronco
07-15-2016, 10:45 PM
No, I said Obama and Hillary created the Arab Spring and gave ISIS power (when they had none). What you are witnessing now is a direct manifestation of their utterly fatal foreign policy.

Price, I think both of the last two administrations are culpable with the majority of the blame going to Bush by destabilizing the region with the Iraq war.

Certainly, Obama deposing Mubarak and Quaddafi worsened the problem, however. Our best bet in the ME is as it's always been, brutal but secular strongmen.

This is why Assad must be kept in Syria. I don't want to hear bull**** about how the rebels are "moderates". Objective No. 1 is always to keep the Islamists out of power, repressed and persecuted. IDGAF how brutal the secular dictators are.

pricejj
07-15-2016, 11:01 PM
Price, I think both of the last two administrations are culpable with the majority of the blame going to Bush by destabilizing the region with the Iraq war.

Certainly, Obama deposing Mubarak and Quaddafi worsened the problem, however. Our best bet in the ME is as it's always been, brutal but secular strongmen.

This is why Assad must be kept in Syria. I don't want to hear bull**** about how the rebels are "moderates". Objective No. 1 is always to keep the Islamists out of power, repressed and persecuted. IDGAF how brutal the secular dictators are.

Rule #1: Let the people choose their own leaders. If the people really want to change their leader, they will.
Rule #2: Prevent nuclear proliferation with warning, monitoring, and finally military strikes to completely take out all nuclear facilities.
Rule #3: Do not supply any foreign entity with weapons.

The tricky part is guys like Saddam Hussein. George Bush Sr. was right in that he repelled Hussein out of Kuwait. In that way, I think it is acceptable to prevent dictators from taking over other sovereign nations by force (if feasible).

Dr. Broncenstein
07-15-2016, 11:15 PM
Those peaceful Muslims were just minding their own bidness until we invaded Iraq.

SoCalBronco
07-15-2016, 11:40 PM
Rule #1: Let the people choose their own leaders. If the people really want to change their leader, they will.
Rule #2: Prevent nuclear proliferation with warning, monitoring, and finally military strikes to completely take out all nuclear facilities.
Rule #3: Do not supply any foreign entity with weapons.

The tricky part is guys like Saddam Hussein. George Bush Sr. was right in that he repelled Hussein out of Kuwait. In that way, I think it is acceptable to prevent dictators from taking over other sovereign nations by force (if feasible).

I agree with you on 2, 3 is a difficult grey area with pros and cons. I don't agree on 1 at all.

pricejj
07-15-2016, 11:47 PM
The U.S. Is actually in a unique position in world history, as we are governed by a unique document, the U.S. Constitution. Therefore, we have a pivotal role to play, though with great power comes great responsibility.

Of course, oppression of all people is the problem.

broncocalijohn
07-15-2016, 11:53 PM
I agree with you on 2, 3 is a difficult grey area with pros and cons. I don't agree on 1 at all.

I think it has been proven that #1 doesn't work. The hardasses won't allow it and fight for their opinion onto the majority. Sounds horrible but dictators were working out OK for stability.

pricejj
07-15-2016, 11:54 PM
I agree with you on 2, 3 is a difficult grey area with pros and cons. I don't agree on 1 at all.

Do you think these people want to be led by extremists? No. Extremists accomplish nothing and kill innocent people. I don't care what religion you are, it is illegal to kill innocent people.

Extremists can't build a road, they can't govern. All they can do is create war. Muslims know this.

pricejj
07-15-2016, 11:59 PM
I think it has been proven that #1 doesn't work. The hardasses won't allow it and fight for their opinion onto the majority. Sounds horrible but dictators were working out OK for stability.

The dictators were the hardasses. And once you leave a vacuum of power, warlords take over, and everyone is deprived of human rights. I.E. ISIS. This is not the natural way for humanity.

Everyone knows that. Even ISIS knows that.

pricejj
07-16-2016, 12:12 AM
This is why I cannot fault GWB. Surely, the Iraqi people, left to their own devices would have solved their problem themselves eventually. However, Hussein became Kuwait's problem, then was deceptive in the peace process.

Saddam died, and through the sacrifices of people like the Reverend, the citizens of Iraq had their first vote in what centuries? Then we disappeared and gave the extremists weapons, with the most predictable result ever.

This does not change the fact that the U.S.. Constitution is the best governing document in the history of mankind, and is one that would be wise to be emulated, without force, throughout the world.

pricejj
07-16-2016, 12:25 AM
I do know that the way that these many countries with inept leaders (Christians, Buddhists, Taoists, Muslim) are not following the way of their religions as taught by the prophets.

You cannot say that any country in the world is following the way of Jesus, Buddha, Lao Tsu, or Buddha. Drone bombing innocent people is not the way of Jesus, as beekeeper outfits, and suicide vests are not the way of Muhammed.

Bad people are attracted to positions of power, this is why we must limit centralized power, and fight in the way of freedom as U.S citizens.

pricejj
07-16-2016, 12:31 AM
By all means, protect ourselves. Fix our own problems, and do not go in debt creating chaos across the world.

FireFly
07-16-2016, 01:10 AM
People need to keep this tragedy in perspective before going off the deep end and letting fear take control !!!

• 151,600 people die each day
• 6,316 people die each hour
• 105 people die each minute
• Nearly two people die each second

France is a 6,000 KM swim across the Alantic Ocean.

Oh that's good. It's a long way away and they don't speak English. Nothing to see here. Need to have some perspective, not our problem right?

Broncoandrew
07-16-2016, 01:47 AM
Do you think these people want to be led by extremists? No. Extremists accomplish nothing and kill innocent people. I don't care what religion you are, it is illegal to kill innocent people.

Extremists can't build a road, they can't govern. All they can do is create war. Muslims know this.

The problem is what a religion considers an innocent. We tend to make the mistake of considering all religions equal and equivalent in thought. This is absolutely not true, just like Western culture and Oriental cultures thinks very differently.

Islam, in its fundamental state, requires people to follow Islamic law. If they (other people) are not Muslim they must pay the Jizya, if they are not either Muslims, or paying the Jizya, they are not innocent and therefore open for removal.

Since the 30 years war Christianity in the public square has been muted and receded steadily. We are ingrained, for the most part, to think of "Nationalism" and personal freedoms. Children of the Enlightenment and classical liberalism. The ME has not gone through anything comparable, and they don't have an ingrained sense of separation of state and religion. It is irresponsible to assume that any muslim state will operate the way a European or western state would. This assumption has been what has caused the massive turmoil and disaster in foreign relations for the last 50 years. They simply think differently than we do.

elsid13
07-16-2016, 05:26 AM
No, I said Obama and Hillary created the Arab Spring and gave ISIS power (when they had none). What you are witnessing now is a direct manifestation of their utterly fatal foreign policy.

This WH had nothing to do with the Arab Spring and was caught off guard like every other Western Power, because our intel on the ground sucks.

The Arab Spring was not a "planned" event it was a number of factors coming together no different then orange revolution we saw in Eastern Europe. It was oppressed societies, angered by economic downturn and political disfranchisement looking for a spark (Mohamed Bouazizi). With ability of social media to create a movement and inspiration it expand across the Arab World.

The narrative that Arab Spring is result of US foreign policy is simple radio talk that is not based in either a true understand of the world or lazy sound bite.

You are right our foreign policy has been failure because of instead of doing the right thing we have half assed it because of politics and stupidity on both sides of the aisle.

elsid13
07-16-2016, 05:36 AM
Price, I think both of the last two administrations are culpable with the majority of the blame going to Bush by destabilizing the region with the Iraq war.

Certainly, Obama deposing Mubarak and Quaddafi worsened the problem, however. Our best bet in the ME is as it's always been, brutal but secular strongmen.

This is why Assad must be kept in Syria. I don't want to hear bull**** about how the rebels are "moderates". Objective No. 1 is always to keep the Islamists out of power, repressed and persecuted. IDGAF how brutal the secular dictators are.

Our best bet is to grow and encourage democrat movements. It is hard and long and there is going to be set backs but if we want peace we need to change our vision for short term objective to long term outcomes.

Dr.5280
07-16-2016, 05:39 AM
No, I said Obama and Hillary created the Arab Spring and gave ISIS power (when they had none). What you are witnessing now is a direct manifestation of their utterly fatal foreign policy.

ISIS is commanded by former Iraqi officers. The same group that G.W. refused to work with restoring Iraq. Obama simply inherited the situation.

elsid13
07-16-2016, 05:42 AM
ISIS is commanded by former Iraqi officers. The same group that G.W. refused to work with restoring Iraq. Obama simply inherited the situation.

ISIS was trained by former Iraqi officers, not lead by them. Most of those officers are now either dead or fled the group.

Dr.5280
07-16-2016, 05:54 AM
Yes Elsid and that starts with western values which are based on civic responsibilities that are just not present in those societies. Their obligation is what the mullah says it is.

RonMexico
07-16-2016, 07:38 AM
Our best bet is to grow and encourage democrat movements. It is hard and long and there is going to be set backs but if we want peace we need to change our vision for short term objective to long term outcomes.

Democratic movements do not result in stable, peaceful governments in the Middle East. They result in warring factions of militant Islamists.

Bronco Yoda
07-16-2016, 09:07 AM
Oh that's good. It's a long way away and they don't speak English. Nothing to see here. Need to have some perspective, not our problem right?

If you're an American living in the states, then this tragic incident is not your problem. I don't know what to tell you about your fixation on language. That's something you'll have to deal with yourself.

Live your life. Don't be ruled by fear.

Stop listening to the talking heads drilling into your brain that YOU should be afraid. Ignore the politicians (on both sides) that will attach tragedies like these to their own fear mongering (guns and immigration).

TonyR
07-16-2016, 10:10 AM
Wrong...

Wrong? Have you ever heard of the Israeli–Palestinian conflict? Has Israel ever exerted any "power" during that conflict? Has that "power" resolved the conflict?

TonyR
07-16-2016, 10:14 AM
Price, I think both of the last two administrations are culpable with the majority of the blame going to Bush by destabilizing the region with the Iraq war.

Exactly right. You really can't have a serious conversation on this topic with someone who even begins to suggest otherwise. That being said, assigning blame doesn't change anything or get us anywhere.

RonMexico
07-16-2016, 10:56 AM
Exactly right. You really can't have a serious conversation on this topic with someone who even begins to suggest otherwise. That being said, assigning blame doesn't change anything or get us anywhere.

The president disagrees. He has been blaming Bush for 8 years.

pricejj
07-16-2016, 11:01 AM
This WH had nothing to do with the Arab Spring .

This is an absolutely false statement. The Obama administration funded NGO's in Egypt to overthrow Mubarak. The Obama administration coordinated NATO efforts to overthrow Ghaddafi in Libya. The Obama administration also funded Ethiopia to invade and overthrow the Somalian government, as well as participating in Syria and Yemen. The list goes on and on.

Egypt convicts US NGO workers
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jun/04/egypt-convicts-us-ngo-workers-sam-lahood

RonMexico
07-16-2016, 11:02 AM
This is an absolutely false statement. The Obama administration funded NGO's in Egypt to overthrow Mubarak. The Obama administration coordinated NATO efforts to overthrow Ghaddafi in Libya. The Obama administration also funded Ethiopia to invade and overthrow the Somalian government, as well as participating in Syria and Yemen. The list goes on and on.

Egypt convicts US NGO workers
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jun/04/egypt-convicts-us-ngo-workers-sam-lahood

We also aided with black ops on the ground, including funneling weapons to opposition groups.

pricejj
07-16-2016, 11:04 AM
The Obama administration's role in destroying Egypt is well documented. I can go on if any pro-Obama hack wants to dispute this.



Bloomberg: Obama Administration Considers Continuing Aid to Egypt’s Military Despite Crackdown on NGOs
http://www.iri.org/resource/bloomberg-obama-administration-considers-continuing-aid-egypt%E2%80%99s-military-despite-crackdown

RonMexico
07-16-2016, 11:08 AM
Let's make sure we get the record straight...Bush destabilized Iraq and Afghanistan.

When the current administration came into the office with a mandate to withdraw, the troop withdrawal began. Radical Islamists moved into the power vacuum and claimed that space.

Committing US troops to iraq and Afghanistan was Bushs fault. The subsequent decisions that led to the expanse of power of radical Islamists in Iraq after troop withdrawal and in the greater region was absolutely the fault of the current administration as a direct result of policy.

SoCalBronco
07-16-2016, 11:12 AM
Price, you're definitely correct on the administrations naive, idealistic eyed democracy spreading disaster in the ME. I'm disappointed that Obama, who is supposed to be a cold realist, allowed himself to get pushed into bull**** about populism, human rights, "spreading democracy" and other garbage. Emotion and values have NO place in US foreign policy. This isn't a ****ing comic book where we are supposed to be the good guy.


However, the invasion of Iraq was even more catastrophic, and we blew much in the realm of American blood and treasure (we had excellent surpluses, although a portion of these surpluses may have been illusory due to raiding the SS trust fund, but we were on solid financial footing nonetheless and it was essentially thrown away for nothing).

pricejj
07-16-2016, 11:14 AM
The problem is what a religion considers an innocent. We tend to make the mistake of considering all religions equal and equivalent in thought. This is absolutely not true, just like Western culture and Oriental cultures thinks very differently.

Islam, in its fundamental state, requires people to follow Islamic law. If they (other people) are not Muslim they must pay the Jizya, if they are not either Muslims, or paying the Jizya, they are not innocent and therefore open for removal.

Since the 30 years war Christianity in the public square has been muted and receded steadily. We are ingrained, for the most part, to think of "Nationalism" and personal freedoms. Children of the Enlightenment and classical liberalism. The ME has not gone through anything comparable, and they don't have an ingrained sense of separation of state and religion. It is irresponsible to assume that any muslim state will operate the way a European or western state would. This assumption has been what has caused the massive turmoil and disaster in foreign relations for the last 50 years. They simply think differently than we do.

Every muslim is required to pay the poor tax. Muslims pay zakat (10% of income) every year. Non-muslims pay Jizya. Tax-paying Americans pay a much higher percentage than that. Western Europeans have the highest taxes in the world.


The point is that these two civilizations are quite compatible, and have lived in harmony in the past. The solution is easy.

pricejj
07-16-2016, 11:16 AM
Yes Elsid and that starts with western values which are based on civic responsibilities that are just not present in those societies. Their obligation is what the mullah says it is.

That is completely false.

RonMexico
07-16-2016, 11:19 AM
Price, you're definitely correct on the administrations naive, idealistic eyed democracy spreading disaster in the ME. I'm disappointed that Obama, who is supposed to be a cold realist, allowed himself to get pushed into bull**** about populism, human rights, "spreading democracy" and other garbage. Emotion and values have NO place in US foreign policy. This isn't a ****ing comic book where we are supposed to be the good guy.


However, the invasion of Iraq was even more catastrophic, and we blew much in the realm of American blood and treasure (we had excellent surpluses, although a portion of these surpluses may have been illusory due to raiding the SS trust fund, but we were on solid financial footing nonetheless and it was essentially thrown away for nothing).

If we would have had our own interests first, we would have seized control of Iraq and directed subsequent reorganization efforts just like we did in Japan, Germany, and Korea. We would have had to commit for a few generations, but the result would have been another outpost in the world and increased control over fossil fuels. We would have gained a regional leverage point from which to increase our influence with Iran and Saudi Arabia. The neocon dream looks like the correct vision in retrospect.

Instead, we started navel-gazing and lost the spine to compete in the fashion that people in that region compete.

pricejj
07-16-2016, 11:28 AM
Price, you're definitely correct on the administrations naive, idealistic eyed democracy spreading disaster in the ME. I'm disappointed that Obama, who is supposed to be a cold realist, allowed himself to get pushed into bull**** about populism, human rights, "spreading democracy" and other garbage. Emotion and values have NO place in US foreign policy. This isn't a ****ing comic book where we are supposed to be the good guy.


However, the invasion of Iraq was even more catastrophic, and we blew much in the realm of American blood and treasure (we had excellent surpluses, although a portion of these surpluses may have been illusory due to raiding the SS trust fund, but we were on solid financial footing nonetheless and it was essentially thrown away for nothing).

I have no skin in the game, because I voted for Nader. All we can do is make correct choices in the future. The problem is, it has gotten much worse under Obama, and stands to get even worse still under Hillary Clinton.

TonyR
07-16-2016, 11:31 AM
The neocon dream looks like the correct vision in retrospect.

So we should have occupied Iraq forever? And paid for this, how? Oh, let me guess, with oil profits? The same ones we were told would pay for the Iraq war? Neocon dreams, lol.

TonyR
07-16-2016, 11:34 AM
I have no skin in the game, because I voted for Nader. All we can do is make correct choices in the future. The problem is, it has gotten much worse under Obama, and stands to get even worse still under Hillary Clinton.

Yes, thank goodness Trump has a great plan to fix everything!

http://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-isis-brussels-attack-2016-3

RepentWalpurgis
07-16-2016, 11:35 AM
So we should have occupied Iraq forever? And paid for this, how? Oh, let me guess, with oil profits? The same ones we were told would pay for the Iraq war? Neocon dreams, lol.


Dollar a gallon gas! The guy who was gleefully singing and dancing at the service for the slain Dallas cops promised.

pricejj
07-16-2016, 11:39 AM
Yes, thank goodness Trump has a great plan to fix everything!

http://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-isis-brussels-attack-2016-3

Who is more unprepared for ISIS TonyR? I man (Trump) who has shown signs of understanding the problem? Or Hillary Clinton who created ISIS? You know, the JV team?

The utter incompetence of Hillary Clinton isn't even debatable.

SoCalBronco
07-16-2016, 11:43 AM
If we would have had our own interests first, we would have seized control of Iraq and directed subsequent reorganization efforts just like we did in Japan, Germany, and Korea. We would have had to commit for a few generations, but the result would have been another outpost in the world and increased control over fossil fuels. We would have gained a regional leverage point from which to increase our influence with Iran and Saudi Arabia. The neocon dream looks like the correct vision in retrospect.

Instead, we started navel-gazing and lost the spine to compete in the fashion that people in that region compete.

Given the shale boom and the fact that US oil reserves now exceed that of Russia or SA, I'm not sure there's any overriding benefit to the reorganization that you speak of, at least as compared to the huge deficits we have incurred as a result but ofcourse I'm not sure US policy makers could have forseen domestic oil production changes at the time.

At this time, the most important issues we need to tackle are the spiraling debt to GDP ratio which is well beyond the historical norm and is unsustainable and will need to be addressed by structural changes in Medicare and SS (Medicare is a bigger problem), including but not limited to changing benefit formulas and inflationary ratios, eligibility ages, some cost shifting etc, as well as significant cuts to the military budget in the field of procurement especially, but not R&D. All we need is qualitative superiority, not necessarily quantitative superiority and some increases in taxes for the wealthy, matched by some tax cuts for the middle class, as those usually provide better bang for the buck. The supply side stuff doesn't work.

Climate Change will need to be addressed soon. It is a pity that the cap and trade bill is DOA in the Congress as it's far preferable to a carbon tax. C&T should be embraced by conservatives as it puts in place real market mechanisms to incentivize people to be more efficient so they can profit by trading carbon credits, rather than the simple imposition of a tax. C&T has also been successful in Europe.

I'd like to see more bloc grants to the states to replace non-core federal programs and let them use the money for their communities in a manner the local officials decide,is best. It's better to promote laboratories of democracy and experimentation that way, plus citizens at the local level would have more voice as to how to deploy the funds in each topical area.

TonyR
07-16-2016, 11:46 AM
(Trump) who has shown signs of understanding the problem?

Oh fo sho. Here's what he said on The O’Reilly Factor when asked if he'd use ground troops:

“I’m not telling you anything,” he said to O’Reilly. “And the reason I’m not is because if I run and I win, I don’t want them to know the game plan.”

SoCalBronco
07-16-2016, 11:52 AM
Trump doesn't know anything about anything, price. He lacks even a rudimentary understanding of policy issues and apparently has little desire to learn. He's an attention whoring bombast that has no place as a serious candidate. He's plainly unqualified to be dogcatcher much less President. He is even more unprepared and his policy opinions and thoughts appear to be even less refined than Bush in 2000 if you compare candidate speeches and Q&A and that's a low bar that he failed to beat.

He's just attention whoring to drive up business and now I suspect he's looking for a way out. If he were to win, we must begin the impeachment process immediately. And Pence is a small time evangelical governor with again little policy chops, a social agenda that's completely out of place in 2016 and is horrifyingly ignorant on basic issues. Impeach him, too. This ticket is disgusting (coming from a Republican albeit a moderate one). We must begin impeachment at once if this joke of a ticket somehow prevails. I don't care whether there are crimes there or not. It' is and has always been a political process and nothing more. These men have no business on a national ticket. Get rid of them and Speaker Ryan can assume the presidency, which is a far far better alternative.

TonyR
07-16-2016, 11:56 AM
Amen, SoCal.

SoCalBronco
07-16-2016, 12:02 PM
#BringBackDick

SoCalBronco
07-16-2016, 12:54 PM
I'd place current odds at 85/15.

Clinton will seal VA with Kaine and she definitely should capture FL due to rapid demographic changes there with non-Cuban Hispanics (final preelection polling and modeling there last time undercounted demographic changes with most polls showing a 3-4 point Romney lead which turned into a slight loss on Election Day and that trend will be further pronounced now). The campaign infrastructure and GOTV strengths will translate into huge mail-in and absentee ballot advantages by Election Day that will be difficult to overcome as well in many battleground states (this is why despite polling at a tie on CA primary day with Sanders, she won by double digits, because she banked a 400k vote lead via mail in ballots, despite Election Day voters being a draw).

It will be very difficult for Trump to win if he can't pull VA and FL, and that's even if he was able to carry PA and OH. NC is also fast slipping away due to demographics as well and that would absolutely seal it.

Pence doesn't do anything to help him with anyone other than conservatives and the millennials who dislike Hillary but hate Trump will be further pushed to her corner because it's easy to paint Pence as a bigot for the whole gay issues. His statements about smoking not killing you will be a further turnoff to the center.

Against a normal Dem candidate who wasn't widely despised, this pair would be set to do just somewhat better than Goldwater-Miller electorally. But with the heavily flawed and uninspiring HRC, they'll manage to perhaps do slightly better than Dole-Kemp 8 point loss.

Clinton should win by 4-6, with at least 2 points of that coming from vastly superior GOTV, analytics and financial resources.

broncocalijohn
07-16-2016, 03:03 PM
I'd place current odds at 85/15.

Clinton will seal VA with Kaine and she definitely should capture FL due to rapid demographic changes there with non-Cuban Hispanics (final preelection polling and modeling there last time undercounted demographic changes with most polls showing a 3-4 point Romney lead which turned into a slight loss on Election Day and that trend will be further pronounced now). The campaign infrastructure and GOTV strengths will translate into huge mail-in and absentee ballot advantages by Election Day that will be difficult to overcome as well in many battleground states (this is why despite polling at a tie on CA primary day with Sanders, she won by double digits, because she banked a 400k vote lead via mail in ballots, despite Election Day voters being a draw).

It will be very difficult for Trump to win if he can't pull VA and FL, and that's even if he was able to carry PA and OH. NC is also fast slipping away due to demographics as well and that would absolutely seal it.

Pence doesn't do anything to help him with anyone other than conservatives and the millennials who dislike Hillary but hate Trump will be further pushed to her corner because it's easy to paint Pence as a bigot for the whole gay issues. His statements about smoking not killing you will be a further turnoff to the center.

Against a normal Dem candidate who wasn't widely despised, this pair would be set to do just somewhat better than Goldwater-Miller electorally. But with the heavily flawed and uninspiring HRC, they'll manage to perhaps do slightly better than Dole-Kemp 8 point loss.

Clinton should win by 4-6, with at least 2 points of that coming from vastly superior GOTV, analytics and financial resources.

Great, sounds like a post for Pre Draft 2016. I completely laugh at your suggestion that impeachment hearings start if Trump is our next POTUS. We have absolute **** for candidates but that is laughable. Also, he is worst than Bush because you knew Bush would have insiders for Foreign policy to help him along. Who knows what is up Trump's sleeve.

SoCalBronco
07-16-2016, 03:13 PM
Great, sounds like a post for Pre Draft 2016. I completely laugh at your suggestion that impeachment hearings start if Trump is our next POTUS. We have absolute **** for candidates but that is laughable. Also, he is worst than Bush because you knew Bush would have insiders for Foreign policy to help him along. Who knows what is up Trump's sleeve.

Why is it laughable?


Id absolutely love it if the nomination was stolen from Trump at the convention but the anti Trump forces seem to have failed in the convention amendments that were offered.

The other issue is the alternatives. No one wants to see Romney again. I could definitely vote for Ryan and obviously I'd be thrilled with Kasich as the hometown favorite son but unfortunately these kinds of backroom dealing at conventions are just a thing of the past now. Cruz would get destroyed in the general and while he could definitely win the general, Jeb! seems to be hated by the base. I'm a fan of Jeb! although his tax plan is too supply side for my liking. Otherwise, I'm good with him. Basically, all the decent candidates have no shot because the base is behaving like its 1964 when in reality the only similarity to that year if they keep up the current course would be the electoral result.


Maybe a shellacking is what is needed for the party to wake up. And then I won't hear anymore that "well we lost because we weren't conservative enough." Businessman baffoon hand picked by conservative GOP voters in primaries and evangelical governor, there's nowhere for the Tea Party wing to hide after this election. They got what they wanted and they are going up against a soulless completely hated b**** that the public despises and they'll still get smashed. This will be the final humiliation for the post 1981 GOP.

SoCalBronco
07-16-2016, 03:27 PM
BTW, if Kaine is picked by Clinton as I expect, I would assume McAuliffe would appoint himself as the Senate replacement since he can't serve another term as Governor anyway and possibly being the 1 vote difference in a razor thin Dem Senate is excellent Insurance against an indictment by the Feds should Clinton win as is likely. It doesn't make politival sense that a Dem DOJ is gonna throw away a Senate majority with an indictment.

Johnykbr
07-16-2016, 05:09 PM
I'd place current odds at 85/15.

Clinton will seal VA with Kaine and she definitely should capture FL due to rapid demographic changes there with non-Cuban Hispanics (final preelection polling and modeling there last time undercounted demographic changes with most polls showing a 3-4 point Romney lead which turned into a slight loss on Election Day and that trend will be further pronounced now). The campaign infrastructure and GOTV strengths will translate into huge mail-in and absentee ballot advantages by Election Day that will be difficult to overcome as well in many battleground states (this is why despite polling at a tie on CA primary day with Sanders, she won by double digits, because she banked a 400k vote lead via mail in ballots, despite Election Day voters being a draw).

It will be very difficult for Trump to win if he can't pull VA and FL, and that's even if he was able to carry PA and OH. NC is also fast slipping away due to demographics as well and that would absolutely seal it.

Pence doesn't do anything to help him with anyone other than conservatives and the millennials who dislike Hillary but hate Trump will be further pushed to her corner because it's easy to paint Pence as a bigot for the whole gay issues. His statements about smoking not killing you will be a further turnoff to the center.

Against a normal Dem candidate who wasn't widely despised, this pair would be set to do just somewhat better than Goldwater-Miller electorally. But with the heavily flawed and uninspiring HRC, they'll manage to perhaps do slightly better than Dole-Kemp 8 point loss.

Clinton should win by 4-6, with at least 2 points of that coming from vastly superior GOTV, analytics and financial resources.

NC is not changing demographically. He will take NC. I have no doubt of that. I highly doubt he takes PA unless the labor unions switch

RonMexico
07-16-2016, 08:16 PM
NC is not changing demographically. He will take NC. I have no doubt of that. I highly doubt he takes PA unless the labor unions switch

The labor unions may be in play. Policy-wise, Trump is essentially an east coast centrist democrat. His position on trade will be enough to get labor unions to consider endorsing him. At the very least, the nomination of Clinton is enough to weaken union support enough to lower turnout.

This election is going to defy our expectations. I think that Trump will take PA, VA, CO, OH, NC, and FL. He will also make NJ and NY closer calls then we think.

pricejj
07-16-2016, 09:09 PM
Impeachment for Trump? Tea Party gets what it deserves? From a Jon Huntsman Republican? Grow up, Socal. People with a brain are sick and tired of the shell game by the Republican establishment. The ruse is up.

Your boy, Democrat-lite Jon Huntsman got 0.6% of the Republican vote in the 2012 Iowa caucus. That should tell you something about where the establishment stands with the voters. And Paul Ryan hasn't done jack crap to reign in deficit spending. Have fun voting for Hillary.

Hilarious!

SoCalBronco
07-16-2016, 09:12 PM
Impeachment for Trump? Tea Party gets what it deserves? From a Jon Huntsman Republican? Grow up, Socal. People with a brain are sick and tired of the shell game by the Republican establishment. The ruse is up.

Your boy, Democrat-lite Jon Huntsman got 0.6% of the Republican vote in the 2012 Iowa caucus. That should tell you something about where the establishment stands with the voters. And Paul Ryan hasn't done jack crap to reign in deficit spending. Have fun voting for Hillary.

Hilarious!

I'm never voting for Hillary, price. Ever.

Enjoy 45% of the popular vote price. This ticket is hot garbage.

pricejj
07-16-2016, 09:22 PM
I'm never voting for Hillary, price. Ever.

Enjoy 45% of the popular vote price. This ticket is hot garbage.

I supported Ben Carson. Paul Ryan used to be one of my favorite guys, until he proved his true colors. Last time I liked Ron Paul, but voted Romney. Gingrich would have been a much better VP pick, have no idea who Pence is.

Enjoy having an incompetent lying wretch as your president for the next 8 years. My dad said it best, "lock and load."

SoCalBronco
07-16-2016, 09:28 PM
I supported Ben Carson. Paul Ryan used to be one of my favorite guys, until he proved his true colors. Last time I liked Ron Paul, but voted Romney. Gingrich would have been a much better VP pick, have no idea who Pence is.

Enjoy having an incompetent lying wretch as your president for the next 8 years. My dad said it best, "lock and load."

I agree that Gingrich would have lent some intellectual heft to the ticket since it was bereft of any to start with. Pence is a lunatic evangelical moron. He might consolidate some of the conservative vote but won't expand the pie in any way at all.

Clinton will be the President but I wouldn't say she's "my" President. I have no plans to support her. I cannot vote for her now or at any point in the future, although at least at her core she has evolved into a pragmatist, ofcourse it's because of political expediency but so what, pragmatism is a good thing. Richard Nixon is my President and that's about it.

pricejj
07-16-2016, 10:24 PM
I agree that Gingrich would have lent some intellectual heft to the ticket since it was bereft of any to start with. Pence is a lunatic evangelical moron. He might consolidate some of the conservative vote but won't expand the pie in any way at all.

Clinton will be the President but I wouldn't say she's "my" President. I have no plans to support her. I cannot vote for her now or at any point in the future, although at least at her core she has evolved into a pragmatist, ofcourse it's because of political expediency but so what, pragmatism is a good thing. Richard Nixon is my President and that's about it.

If by "pragmatist" you mean her goal is complete fundamental transformation of the US into something far left of France, then I'd agree with you. Trump could do nothing and would never approach the ineptitude and destruction of a Hillary Clinton administration.

Rohirrim
07-17-2016, 06:27 AM
Look at the bigger picture here folks. If the USA never invaded Iraq, there would be no such thing as ISIS. This is all a game. It's a political game involving money and power. The USA invaded and took over Iraq in about 2 weeks. ISIS came into north Iraq (about two hundred individuals), and they let them take over half that country. Where's all their weapons and machinery from? The USA.

USA puts Saddam Hussein in power, supports Bin Ladin 20 years ago, and all that other ****. Who's the real instigator here? I'm just a realist.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/blood-money-these-companies-and-people-make-billions-of-dollars-from-war/5438657

elsid13
07-17-2016, 08:31 AM
Democratic movements do not result in stable, peaceful governments in the Middle East. They result in warring factions of militant Islamists.

Because there has never been full world wide support to help build the required institutions. Most of the team they are chaos without security or aid need to move them along.

peacepipe
07-17-2016, 08:43 AM
If by "pragmatist" you mean her goal is complete fundamental transformation of the US into something far left of France, then I'd agree with you. Trump could do nothing and would never approach the ineptitude and destruction of a Hillary Clinton administration.

LOL you know nothing of HRC if you think she's going to move this country left of France.

RonMexico
07-17-2016, 09:12 AM
Because there has never been full world wide support to help build the required institutions. Most of the team they are chaos without security or aid need to move them along.

That region has been a cauldron of wars for centuries.

It's not "the worlds'" fault, it's the fault of the people who live there. They still live in medieval times. They continually reject the world, and even strike out against it. Violence is what they know and understand. Violence is their institution. Violence is the institution that they choose.

Until they choose something different, nothing will change.