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rugbythug
01-18-2016, 12:08 PM
I have seen this repeated many times that because our D gave up big pass plays to Ben especially YAC. That the Pats will eat us up. While the Patriots have an elite passing game and will create some passing stats it will not look like yesterday. Remember that the Steelers have a WR corps (Even without Antonio) that is built on elite speed. To this point I would guess that every match up across the field yesterday the WR was faster than the DB. This is going to push us back in our coverage and show larger cushion most of the night. Combine this with a QB that is excellent at staying upright and you have a big play big pass offense. Look at their entire season they were excellent. And while the loss of AB was big, the next guys up are not JAG's. Martavious Bryant and Markus Wheaton are super athletic speed merchants that will be a force to be reckoned with next year and in the future.

The Patriots on the other hand do not have elite speed receivers. They have elite quickness receivers and Mongo. Will they do damage? undoubtedly. But it will not look anything like yesterday. Expect play after play of 7-8 yards with some YAC but nothing like yesterday. Our DB's will be tight and trying to put there hands on the Patriots water bugs to make them re-route. Also expect them to sprinkle in a touch of zone coverage. In order to win this game we have to control the center of the line of scrimmage with out adding additional bodies. Malik and Wolfe must win their matchups for us to win the game. If they shut down the run and leave little space for Brady to shuffle forward we will have a chance.

As for Mongo well He Run's Bordertown. He will get 8 catches 100 yards and a TD. Manning and the Offense has to make sure they put enough points on the board that that is not the end of the game.

Mediator12
01-18-2016, 12:17 PM
The thing about playing NE next week, is you beat Brady by playing zone and letting the 4 pass rushers hit him and hit him often. The Pats kill man to man coverages with option routes and stacks. I have ZERO confidence in this defense to execute zone coverage and when they are not playing under Man 1 with a heavy dose of pressure.

I just hope Wade comes up with a better plan than yesterday. DEN gave up 8 highly explosive plays over 20 yards and 10 explosive plays of 15 and over. They need to get a better communication plan as well as they continue to blow coverages with missed signals.

Doggcow
01-18-2016, 12:20 PM
The thing about playing NE next week, is you beat Brady by playing zone and letting the 4 pass rushers hit him and hit him often. The Pats kill man to man coverages with option routes and stacks. I have ZERO confidence in this defense to execute zone coverage and when they are not playing under Man 1 with a heavy dose of pressure.

I just hope Wade comes up with a better plan than yesterday. DEN gave up 8 highly explosive plays over 20 yards and 10 explosive plays of 15 and over. They need to get a better communication plan as well as they continue to blow coverages with missed signals.

In all fairness, those big gains came on the rush not getting there. We will have a much easier time getting to Brady than Ben (I hope)

24champ
01-18-2016, 12:22 PM
I would also say that the Steelers have a much better offensive line than the Patriots in addition to having better receivers. Their line yesterday, held up for the most part. They should be AFC favorites next season with the new guys they got on both sides of the ball.

With the Patriots, they struggle against middling to decent defenses, especially on the road. I didn't understand the Chiefs game plan of throwing it constantly and not having their D attack Brady. Then again, that's the Chiefs.

Mediator12
01-18-2016, 12:25 PM
In all fairness, those big gains came on the rush not getting there. We will have a much easier time getting to Brady than Ben (I hope)

Well, that never helps, but it was NOT because of the lack of a rush! It was zone coverage and Crossing patterns in man that caused those plays. And, major separation leading to huge YAC numbers.

BroncosfanGuy
01-18-2016, 12:29 PM
We will have a much easier time getting to Brady than Ben (I hope)

Brady gets the ball out of his hands within something like 2.4 seconds.

it's going to be difficult getting to him since he'll have Edelman/Gronk/Amendola running the pick and roll right off the snap.

probably more difficult than getting to Roeth. Brady mitigated KC's pass rush. his OL didn't suddenly improve

2KBack
01-18-2016, 12:29 PM
seriously, dudes were wide the **** open. I can't even remember a contested pass.

Garcia Bronco
01-18-2016, 12:29 PM
The thing about playing NE next week, is you beat Brady by playing zone and letting the 4 pass rushers hit him and hit him often. The Pats kill man to man coverages with option routes and stacks. I have ZERO confidence in this defense to execute zone coverage and when they are not playing under Man 1 with a heavy dose of pressure.

I just hope Wade comes up with a better plan than yesterday. DEN gave up 8 highly explosive plays over 20 yards and 10 explosive plays of 15 and over. They need to get a better communication plan as well as they continue to blow coverages with missed signals.

I think you have to mix it up. Man and zone to be successful. If you don't get to Brady with your front 4, he'll eat your zone up too.

muninoel
01-18-2016, 12:30 PM
I would also say that the Steelers have a much better offensive line than the Patriots in addition to having better receivers. Their line yesterday, held up for the most part. They should be AFC favorites next season with the new guys they got on both sides of the ball.

With the Patriots, they struggle against middling to decent defenses, especially on the road. I didn't understand the Chiefs game plan of throwing it constantly and not having their D attack Brady. Then again, that's the Chiefs.

Brady was 23/42 for 280 yards and 3 TDs against the Broncos in Denver, missing his top 2 wide receivers in bad weather. Is that your definition of struggling against the #1 ranked defense on the road?

Mediator12
01-18-2016, 12:34 PM
I would also say that the Steelers have a much better offensive line than the Patriots in addition to having better receivers. Their line yesterday, held up for the most part. They should be AFC favorites next season with the new guys they got on both sides of the ball.

With the Patriots, they struggle against middling to decent defenses, especially on the road. I didn't understand the Chiefs game plan of throwing it constantly and not having their D attack Brady. Then again, that's the Chiefs.

Brady loves the blitz and is a blitz killer. Check his passing numbers and he is outstanding versus the blitz. He hates a solid 4 man rush and Zone behind it taking out the option plays in the middle of the field. The thing is creating a solid rush package with 4 that constantly hits him while covering the underneath routes. DEN has the capability to do that, but they have to stop the run too.

Mediator12
01-18-2016, 12:35 PM
I think you have to mix it up. Man and zone to be successful. If you don't get to Brady with your front 4, he'll eat your zone up too.

Yep, but you let him eat you up underneath and live to fight another day. Stop letting explosive plays change the game.

24champ
01-18-2016, 12:37 PM
Brady gets the ball out of his hands within something like 2.4 seconds.

it's going to be difficult getting to him since he'll have Edelman/Gronk/Amendola running the pick and roll right off the snap.

probably more difficult than getting to Roeth. Brady mitigated KC's pass rush. his OL didn't suddenly improve

Yeah NE's OL didn't improve overnight. They were pretty bad against the Dolphins in week 17. Brady wasn't really pressured at all in that game against KC, since KC didn't blitz that much once Houston wimped out.

injury that turned out to be more crucial was the one that kept LB Justin Houston (+0.1) out for the majority of the game. He played just eight snaps, none of them in the second half, and without him the Chiefs only managed to pressure Patriots QB Tom Brady seven times. Last week the defensive line picked up the slack a bit with big games from Allen Bailey (-1.0) and Dontari Poe (-0.4), but the pair totaled just two pressures in 69 combined rushes on Saturday. It was similarly bad on the outside with Dee Ford (-1.6) and Tamba Hali (-0.8) shut down by New Englandís tackles and a quick release from Brady ó he spent an average of just 2.19 seconds in the pocket.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2016/01/17/pro-kc-ne-grades-pats-win-with-passing-game-defense/

BroncoInferno
01-18-2016, 12:37 PM
The thing about playing NE next week, is you beat Brady by playing zone and letting the 4 pass rushers hit him and hit him often. The Pats kill man to man coverages with option routes and stacks. I have ZERO confidence in this defense to execute zone coverage and when they are not playing under Man 1 with a heavy dose of pressure.

I just hope Wade comes up with a better plan than yesterday. DEN gave up 8 highly explosive plays over 20 yards and 10 explosive plays of 15 and over. They need to get a better communication plan as well as they continue to blow coverages with missed signals.

Agreed, but the good news is that other than the one TD drive, the defense mostly tightened the screws on drives following a big play and kept Pitt out of the end zone.

orinjkrush
01-18-2016, 12:41 PM
quick passes over the middle are low trajectory.

got to get in the pass lanes and bat some balls down.

enjolras
01-18-2016, 12:44 PM
We're gonna have to do it without Chris Harris, who once again is clearly injured when we really need him.

mhgaffney
01-18-2016, 12:53 PM
Denver's D gave up a lot of yards against Pitt but only one TD -- which is the stat that counts.

24champ
01-18-2016, 12:58 PM
Brady was 23/42 for 280 yards and 3 TDs against the Broncos in Denver, missing his top 2 wide receivers in bad weather. Is that your definition of struggling against the #1 ranked defense on the road?

Yeah he was pretty pedestrian if you watched the game.

Let's not forget that he was crying to the refs all night in that game because he was under siege. Brady caught a break on a wheel route to Bolden and when it mattered in the 4th quarter, he didn't do well.


http://www.pressherald.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Patriots-Broncos-Foot_Boyk-3-762x1024.jpg

uplink
01-18-2016, 12:59 PM
broncos have to limit the yards after the catch with good tackling on Sunday. They should try and punch the ball out of the receivers hands at every opportunity.

peacepipe
01-18-2016, 01:00 PM
The thing about playing NE next week, is you beat Brady by playing zone and letting the 4 pass rushers hit him and hit him often. The Pats kill man to man coverages with option routes and stacks. I have ZERO confidence in this defense to execute zone coverage and when they are not playing under Man 1 with a heavy dose of pressure.

I just hope Wade comes up with a better plan than yesterday. DEN gave up 8 highly explosive plays over 20 yards and 10 explosive plays of 15 and over. They need to get a better communication plan as well as they continue to blow coverages with missed signals.

You play both, Brady will pick zone a part. Mix it up man to man jamming wrs, got to give our rushers time to get to brady.

uplink
01-18-2016, 01:04 PM
have trev and marshall ready to jump in front of short crossing routes in the middle, make brady throw to the sidelines. Bump Gronk at the line every time, if they play zone have one guy, a CB or Safety dedicated to covering Gronk where ever he lines up. Don't have outside LBers covering him. Trev may be able to stick with Gronk

Mediator12
01-18-2016, 01:13 PM
You play both, Brady will pick zone a part. Mix it up man to man jamming wrs, got to give our rushers time to get to brady.

The problem is DEN does not have any zone proficiency. They can not play a cover 2/cover 4/Tampa 2 mix that is disguised pre-snap and that makes Brady hold the ball longer to decipher the 2 deep safeties and whether the LB is up the seam on Gronkowski alone or with help.

Playing Zone is a major mismatch at this point and playing man is not as effective against this team because Brady knows how to beat man coverage quickly and get the ball out faster and negating the pass rush.

I do not like the matchup at all with a healthy NE receiver group.

Buffsroam
01-18-2016, 01:17 PM
seriously, dudes were wide the **** open. I can't even remember a contested pass.

Except the passes that were broken up or contested, but live in your fantasy world as long as you want.

Mediator12
01-18-2016, 01:17 PM
I have to go, but this was priceless:

Broncos LB Brandon Marshall on why it's so hard to cover Patriots TE Rob Gronkowski: "Because he pushes off."

Requiem
01-18-2016, 01:18 PM
I love threads like this because I am now smarter after reading them.

DBroncos4life
01-18-2016, 01:19 PM
It all comes down to Ware and Action Jackson's desire to get paid like a elite DE. Those two can set the tone.

Blart
01-18-2016, 01:24 PM
I would also say that the Steelers have a much better offensive line than the Patriots

Understatement.


http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

Pass blocking

PIT: 8
NE: 18

LikeABoss5820
01-18-2016, 01:27 PM
Brady was 23/42 for 280 yards and 3 TDs against the Broncos in Denver, missing his top 2 wide receivers in bad weather. Is that your definition of struggling against the #1 ranked defense on the road?

Well one of those came on a short field, the other came on an option route for 50+ yards.

Not saying he struggled.

But just putting it in perspective.

DENVERDUI55
01-18-2016, 01:29 PM
The thing about playing NE next week, is you beat Brady by playing zone and letting the 4 pass rushers hit him and hit him often. The Pats kill man to man coverages with option routes and stacks. I have ZERO confidence in this defense to execute zone coverage and when they are not playing under Man 1 with a heavy dose of pressure.

I just hope Wade comes up with a better plan than yesterday. DEN gave up 8 highly explosive plays over 20 yards and 10 explosive plays of 15 and over. They need to get a better communication plan as well as they continue to blow coverages with missed signals.
Agreed. As good as the D is they are one of the worst at zone coverage.

LikeABoss5820
01-18-2016, 01:30 PM
Same thing i said in the KC/NE game, it comes down to getting/hitting Brady.

In fairness, Houston barely played, Hali had a hurt thumb and they were down to Zombo and Dee Ford.

Den has all 4 of Ware, Miller, Shaq, and Ray with its interior, but when Brady has everyone, he gets rid of the ball laser quick.

BroncoMan4ever
01-18-2016, 01:33 PM
Well, that never helps, but it was NOT because of the lack of a rush! It was zone coverage and Crossing patterns in man that caused those plays. And, major separation leading to huge YAC numbers.

The separation and zone coverage were out of necessity and respect to the Steelers receivers speed. New England doesn't pose that same threat and as a result won't get the same look.

NoFlyZone
01-18-2016, 01:37 PM
They have no running game.

Their offense is 1000x better with gronk.

GAMEPLAN:

Dare them to run, focus on gronk.

BroncosfanGuy
01-18-2016, 01:37 PM
Denver's D gave up 8 huge plays yesterday. Outside of those 8 plays, Pitt averaged something like 2.8 yards per play.

Obviously Denver MUST limit the big plays by playing sound coverage, maintaining gap integrity in the run game (this includes staying home on the backside in case of some misdirection/jet sweep/end around stuff ne will likely employ to take advantage of an aggressive D), and making tackles.

ne's O isn't much of a quick-strike O anymore, but they feast on teams making defensive mistakes, panicking with untimely blitzes, and ne creates creases via the pick routes. Sound tackling could go a long way in this one since so many of their passes are horizontal. The D needs to play maybe its best game of the year this Sunday.

DBroncos4life
01-18-2016, 01:41 PM
They said on ESPN today that Brady averaged 2.1 seconds on his release this weekend.

ColoradoDarin
01-18-2016, 01:41 PM
I'd just like us to not let them have several plays where their WRs/TEs have no one within 20 yards of them on defense.

B-Large
01-18-2016, 01:46 PM
seriously, dudes were wide the **** open. I can't even remember a contested pass.

Talib's end zone breakup- I think Wade played a little more bend don't break yesterday, let them complete passes they were going to anyway, nothing big over the top, and get stingy and force 3's. It hard to watch, but we do it pretty well when we need to.

broncosteven
01-18-2016, 02:45 PM
Brady loves the blitz and is a blitz killer. Check his passing numbers and he is outstanding versus the blitz. He hates a solid 4 man rush and Zone behind it taking out the option plays in the middle of the field. The thing is creating a solid rush package with 4 that constantly hits him while covering the underneath routes. DEN has the capability to do that, but they have to stop the run too.

Pats ran the ball 7 times, Brady is credited with 6 other runs. Belly had a game that he threw it every down.

I don't know what to expect from Belly other than no matter what it will be a pass heavy O GP.

kFc couldn't manage any kind of pass rush at all. We managed to get Ben down 3 times in big spots too. That could decide the game. Need to execute on O as well. Vs SD had the turnovers and then drops yesterday. Need a couple of clean games to win the next 2.

KevinJames
01-18-2016, 03:23 PM
Yeah the difference is NE doesn't even have close to that WR line up even without Antonio Brown those WRs are freaks. We just play them the same way the Dolphins did in week 17 and we will win.

Only thing NE has we gotta worry strongly about is Gronk, **** I say TJ ward and Darian Stewart just keep going for his knees and we will be fine.

fontaine
01-18-2016, 03:23 PM
The problem is DEN does not have any zone proficiency. They can not play a cover 2/cover 4/Tampa 2 mix that is disguised pre-snap and that makes Brady hold the ball longer to decipher the 2 deep safeties and whether the LB is up the seam on Gronkowski alone or with help.

Playing Zone is a major mismatch at this point and playing man is not as effective against this team because Brady knows how to beat man coverage quickly and get the ball out faster and negating the pass rush.

I do not like the matchup at all with a healthy NE receiver group.

It's not as simple as that.

I agree playing man results in NE (and a lot of other very good offenses) going stack/bunch WRs to beat those coverages.

Mixing up coverages according to down and distance, though, is what we can do without heavily relying on zone concepts and using it as a change up rather than base.

I have no doubt NE will get their yards but can they do it against this pass rush (and Wade's blitz concepts) for 4-5 long/deep drives results in TDs? Probably not.

Which is why we'll need to beat NE playing complimentary football (special teams, controlling clock with running the ball), rather than just expecting the defense to do it all.

LongDongJohnson
01-18-2016, 03:29 PM
Hit stick edelman on the very first play of the game like Rodgers Cromartie did in the 2014 afc champ game. Set the tone early.

CHEF LUIGI
01-18-2016, 03:43 PM
The problem is DEN does not have any zone proficiency. They can not play a cover 2/cover 4/Tampa 2 mix that is disguised pre-snap and that makes Brady hold the ball longer to decipher the 2 deep safeties and whether the LB is up the seam on Gronkowski alone or with help.

Playing Zone is a major mismatch at this point and playing man is not as effective against this team because Brady knows how to beat man coverage quickly and get the ball out faster and negating the pass rush.

I do not like the matchup at all with a healthy NE receiver group.
Brady has been sacked and hurried, PLENTY this season !
Our O line looks like the COLOSSUS OF RHODES, when it was intact, compared to the NE o-Line !
Brady always has targets...
You attack their passing game by attacking Brady and not allowing yardage after the catch, and definatrly NOT after contact.
Get the sack, avoid the YAC !

When was the last time a Denver defender BLOCKED a pass ?

CHEF LUIGI
01-18-2016, 03:45 PM
Pats ran the ball 7 times, Brady is credited with 6 other runs. Belly had a game that he threw it every down.

I don't know what to expect from Belly other than no matter what it will be a pass heavy O GP.

kFc couldn't manage any kind of pass rush at all. We managed to get Ben down 3 times in big spots too. That could decide the game. Need to execute on O as well. Vs SD had the turnovers and then drops yesterday. Need a couple of clean games to win the next 2.word.

CHEF LUIGI
01-18-2016, 03:46 PM
It's not as simple as that.

I agree playing man results in NE (and a lot of other very good offenses) going stack/bunch WRs to beat those coverages.

Mixing up coverages according to down and distance, though, is what we can do without heavily relying on zone concepts and using it as a change up rather than base.

I have no doubt NE will get their yards but can they do it against this pass rush (and Wade's blitz concepts) for 4-5 long/deep drives results in TDs? Probably not.

Which is why we'll need to beat NE playing complimentary football (special teams, controlling clock with running the ball), rather than just expecting the defense to do it all.

Complimentary offense and solid special teams, word too.

MiamiChico
01-18-2016, 03:46 PM
Brady gets the ball out of his hands within something like 2.4 seconds.

it's going to be difficult getting to him since he'll have Edelman/Gronk/Amendola running the pick and roll right off the snap.

probably more difficult than getting to Roeth. Brady mitigated KC's pass rush. his OL didn't suddenly improve

It helped that Houston didnt play at all and Hali was also limited.

CHEF LUIGI
01-18-2016, 03:52 PM
They have no running game.

Their offense is 1000x better with gronk.

GAMEPLAN:

Dare them to run, focus on gronk.Gronk is just one of 5 targets for TOM, if he has time he will find his target. and TOM attacks individual defenders ! He finds the weakest member of the D, and attacks at that weakness !
Philips has to avoid putting TJ ward in that position.

CHEF LUIGI
01-18-2016, 03:54 PM
Denver's D gave up 8 huge plays yesterday. Outside of those 8 plays, Pitt averaged something like 2.8 yards per play.

Obviously Denver MUST limit the big plays by playing sound coverage, maintaining gap integrity in the run game (this includes staying home on the backside in case of some misdirection/jet sweep/end around stuff ne will likely employ to take advantage of an aggressive D), and making tackles.

ne's O isn't much of a quick-strike O anymore, but they feast on teams making defensive mistakes, panicking with untimely blitzes, and ne creates creases via the pick routes. Sound tackling could go a long way in this one since so many of their passes are horizontal. The D needs to play maybe its best game of the year this Sunday.missed tackles were as glaring as dropped passes.

Action
01-18-2016, 04:55 PM
Talib needs to be on Gronk when he's outside.

Gronk seems to always put up points to start games as if teams don't have a game plan.

DENVERDUI55
01-18-2016, 05:13 PM
Brady mitigated KC's pass rush. his OL didn't suddenly improve

They did get some players back and rested from injuries.

BroncosfanGuy
01-18-2016, 06:38 PM
They did get some players back and rested from injuries.

Vollmer is the only one offhand I can think of. but my point stands--when the QB is getting the ball out of his hand in 2.1 seconds, the lack of pass rush is not really due to OL proficiency

wolf754life
01-18-2016, 06:46 PM
have trev and marshall ready to jump in front of short crossing routes in the middle, make brady throw to the sidelines. Bump Gronk at the line every time, if they play zone have one guy, a CB or Safety dedicated to covering Gronk where ever he lines up. Don't have outside LBers covering him. Trev may be able to stick with Gronk

How tall is Trev? How tall is Gronk? Lol, gotta love the Mane....Sunshiny Days!

wolf754life
01-18-2016, 10:40 PM
How tall is Trev? How tall is Gronk? Lol, gotta love the Mane....Sunshiny Days!

Buehler? Buehler?

Fanboy homers thinking Trevathan can shut down Gronk....

Ugh