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Pony Boy
08-04-2014, 09:32 AM
Federal Debt Up $7 Trillion Under Obama

(CNSNews.com) - The total federal debt of the U.S. government has now increased more than $7 trillion during the slightly more than five and a half years Barack Obama has been president.

That is more than the debt increased under all U.S. presidents from George Washington through Bill Clinton combined, and it is more debt than was accumulated in the first 227 years of this nation's existence--from 1776 through 2003.

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/terence-p-jeffrey/706025967449751-federal-debt-7t-under-obama


Obama says adding trillions to debt is unpatriotic.


<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/1kuTG19Cu_Q" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

bronco militia
08-04-2014, 10:59 AM
http://mrwgifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Muslim-Man-Shows-off-His-Dance-Moves-To-The-Crowd-Breaking-Out-In-Song.gif

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
08-04-2014, 11:10 AM
Right-wingers: Debt hawks since 2009.

Rohirrim
08-04-2014, 12:44 PM
http://mrwgifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Muslim-Man-Shows-off-His-Dance-Moves-To-The-Crowd-Breaking-Out-In-Song.gif

:spit:


Blaming Obama for this debt is as ridiculous as this dance. It doesn't matter who you elect. All you're doing is strapping him or her to the back of an out of control tiger and saying, "Here! Go for a ride." You think that debt is something? You should read about the "shadow banking system." http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=115996&highlight=shadow

Pony Boy
08-04-2014, 12:44 PM
Right-wingers: Debt hawks since 2009.

So I guess by his own definition this would make BO an unpatriotic President?

Rohirrim
08-04-2014, 12:47 PM
http://mrwgifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Muslim-Man-Shows-off-His-Dance-Moves-To-The-Crowd-Breaking-Out-In-Song.gif

Meanwhile, I'm going to have fun imagining what music they're dancing to. I choose this:

<iframe width="640" height="390" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/MLv7viCMGo8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Arkie
08-04-2014, 01:07 PM
http://mrwgifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Muslim-Man-Shows-off-His-Dance-Moves-To-The-Crowd-Breaking-Out-In-Song.gif
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/EoS52fVtVQM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Rigs11
08-04-2014, 01:39 PM
So has that evil Kenyan spent 7 trillion since he was elected or did that debt increase due to unfunded wars and tax cuts?

Pony Boy
08-04-2014, 01:56 PM
So has that evil Kenyan spent 7 trillion since he was elected or did that debt increase due to unfunded wars and tax cuts?

As Hillary said "What difference does it make".

You got to love this quote from BO in 2006 ..........

The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies. Over the past 5 years, our federal debt has increased by $3.5 trillion to $8.6 trillion. That is ‘‘trillion’’ with a ‘‘T.’’ That is money that we have borrowed from the Social Security trust fund, borrowed from China and Japan, borrowed from American taxpayers. And over the next 5 years, between now and 2011, the President’s budget will increase the debt by almost another $3.5 trillion.

Increasing America’s debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that ‘‘the buck stops here.’’ Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2013/10/09/obama_s_2006_debt_ceiling_speech.html

Rohirrim
08-04-2014, 02:10 PM
Time for a pie chart!

http://peteware.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/Global_Spending_Graph.jpeg

U.S. military spending in comparison to the rest of the world. Keep in mind, the Cold War ended almost twenty five years ago.

The Lone Bolt
08-04-2014, 02:41 PM
Time for a pie chart!

http://peteware.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/Global_Spending_Graph.jpeg

U.S. military spending in comparison to the rest of the world. Keep in mind, the Cold War ended almost twenty five years ago.

But... but... but... if we cut even a dime we'll be completely defenseless!! zowie!

BroncoBeavis
08-04-2014, 02:59 PM
Time for a pie chart!

http://peteware.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/Global_Spending_Graph.jpeg

U.S. military spending in comparison to the rest of the world. Keep in mind, the Cold War ended almost twenty five years ago.

You anti-Keynesians just hate duh jobs!

And Nothin's more Keynesian than defense spending. Since it's the least possible to outsource. Fall in line. :)

Anyway, what's the end goal here? Cut the defense budget in half so we might've only racked up $6 trillion in debt instead of $7?

Fedaykin
08-04-2014, 03:37 PM
I see the 'conservatives' are still quite happy to remain willfully ignorant of the causes of our debt and spending problem.

orinjkrush
08-04-2014, 04:41 PM
Time for a pie chart!

http://peteware.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/Global_Spending_Graph.jpeg

U.S. military spending in comparison to the rest of the world. Keep in mind, the Cold War ended almost twenty five years ago.

unfortunately, it is our last and only healthy industry. Cut it and the economy continues down....faster.

Rigs11
08-04-2014, 04:45 PM
You anti-Keynesians just hate duh jobs!

And Nothin's more Keynesian than defense spending. Since it's the least possible to outsource. Fall in line. :)

Anyway, what's the end goal here? Cut the defense budget in half so we might've only racked up $6 trillion in debt instead of $7?

Or gasp! Infrastructure jobs. You righties and your unfunded wars and tax cuts.then your crying about the debt. Its comical

Arkie
08-04-2014, 05:13 PM
unfortunately, it is our last and only healthy industry. Cut it and the economy continues down....faster.

More jobs can be created by putting that money almost anywhere else including tax cuts.

Fedaykin
08-04-2014, 05:50 PM
unfortunately, it is our last and only healthy industry. Cut it and the economy continues down....faster.

There's no reason we can't move soem of those funds to much more needed things. When we build thousands of tanks, aircraft, etc. that the military didn't ask for, doesn't need, and does nothing with but mothball we're just wasting manpower and resources to pad the profits of defense contractors.

TailgateNut
08-04-2014, 05:56 PM
So has that evil Kenyan spent 7 trillion since he was elected or did that debt increase due to unfunded wars and tax cuts?


These Bushbots will never factor in the cost of Dumbyas war and the snowball effect of the damages and disabling injuries. All of those have to be funded and eventially paid off......then add in the effect of the unregulated banking fiasco......
None of this seems to sink in with any of these clowns........

I didn't cast my vote for BO the last time but to be fair he was given an Edsel and tasked to win a NASCAR race.....

W*GS
08-04-2014, 06:42 PM
We already got a thread for this (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=115990).

TailgateNut
08-04-2014, 06:46 PM
We already got a thread for this (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=115990).

Considering that with the exception of a small percentage most of them vote against their own best interests, I would agree with the title of the linked thread....

BroncoBeavis
08-04-2014, 06:58 PM
I see the 'conservatives' are still quite happy to remain willfully ignorant of the causes of our debt and spending problem.

You finally learned about entitlement spending? Good on ya' Fed. :)

TailgateNut
08-04-2014, 07:15 PM
There's no reason we can't move soem of those funds to much more needed things. When we build thousands of tanks, aircraft, etc. that the military didn't ask for, doesn't need, and does nothing with but mothball we're just wasting manpower and resources to pad the profits of defense contractors.


I spend quite a bit of time with vets. Considering the long term care costs associated with those who are/were diagnosed with PTSD and disabilties due to injuries boggles the mind. We cannot stick our heads in the sand and only look at the costs of IRAQ in terms of money spent during time on the ground but the long term care costs associated with that fiasco. Iraq will coninue to cost the US billions if not Trillions for decades to come......for what? For Bush and Cheney to sport a Woody during their circle jerk in the WH.

Fedaykin
08-04-2014, 07:22 PM
You finally learned about entitlement spending? Good on ya' Fed. :)

See, you think this is some great gotcha, but all it does is reenforce the fact that you are ignorant on this topic -- as you are with most.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
08-05-2014, 11:56 AM
I spend quite a bit of time with vets. Considering the long term care costs associated with those who are/were diagnosed with PTSD and disabilties due to injuries boggles the mind. We cannot stick our heads in the sand and only look at the costs of IRAQ in terms of money spent during time on the ground but the long term care costs associated with that fiasco. Iraq will coninue to cost the US billions if not Trillions for decades to come......for what? For Bush and Cheney to sport a Woody during their circle jerk in the WH.

...and to enrich the usual cast of war profiteers (read: Bush's real base.)

Iraq was a huge bonanza for these parasitic c0****ckers.

BroncoBeavis
08-05-2014, 12:49 PM
See, you think this is some great gotcha, but all it does is reenforce the fact that you are ignorant on this topic -- as you are with most.

Uh huh.

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSffvqpUpZfFyKDYDkxUtiTmORkjEFBE ludqAcGm9x2uYQoOf_G

"Just Cut out that little pink part! Then we're almost solvent! For a few years. Military Schmilitary." LOL

B-Large
08-05-2014, 12:59 PM
Instead of arguing over who to blame...

why not cut every budget, every program, every sector of Government by 10% right off the top, and put together a package of taxes intended soley to pay off the LTD?

then, take Government manipulative power away and do a flat OR VAT tax. Every dollar the Governmemt overspends this year, gets paid for with a dollar for dollar increase then next.

No more Credit Card wars- people get taxed for every engagement- everybody feels the pain

No more easy, endless handouts for the poor- require work, they'll feel better and so will everybody else.

Make Political Campaigns 100% publicaly financed. May the best candidate win with the same resources.


See easy.

mhgaffney
08-05-2014, 01:12 PM
This is what happens when you bail out the too bigs.

B-Large
08-05-2014, 01:23 PM
This is what happens when you bail out the too bigs.

and yes, we no longer bail out banks that can't stand on their own. I understand proving liquidity, but this bail out **** is nonsensical.

Rohirrim
08-05-2014, 02:38 PM
Many don't realize this, but the next bailout, they not only take it from your taxes, but they take your deposits too. Read the fine print. ;D

Fedaykin
08-05-2014, 07:41 PM
Uh huh.

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSffvqpUpZfFyKDYDkxUtiTmORkjEFBE ludqAcGm9x2uYQoOf_G

"Just Cut out that little pink part! Then we're almost solvent! For a few years. Military Schmilitary." LOL

Oh look, more proof of your ignorance. I'll give you a hint: 17% on defense? total bull**** (even officially, not counting redirected funds).

Can you find out why and report back to the group?

Pony Boy
08-06-2014, 06:08 AM
BO doesn’t have any intention of cutting anything from the budget in the next 2 years. It’s a safe bet that he will probably hand the next President a 20 trillion dollar debt.

Arkie
08-06-2014, 11:47 AM
Instead of arguing over who to blame...

why not cut every budget, every program, every sector of Government by 10% right off the top, and put together a package of taxes intended soley to pay off the LTD?

then, take Government manipulative power away and do a flat OR VAT tax. Every dollar the Governmemt overspends this year, gets paid for with a dollar for dollar increase then next.

No more Credit Card wars- people get taxed for every engagement- everybody feels the pain

No more easy, endless handouts for the poor- require work, they'll feel better and so will everybody else.

Make Political Campaigns 100% publicaly financed. May the best candidate win with the same resources.


See easy.

https://www.nationalpriorities.org/media/uploads/spending_-_total_spending_pie_2014_big.png

Total spending = $3.7 Trillion
10% Cuts = $370 billion

Make the following cuts, and raise revenue by another 10% to balance the budget.

Social Security, Unemployment = $122 Billion
Medical & Health = $93 Billion
Military = $63 Billion
Veterans = $15 Billion
Transportation = $15 Billion
Food & Agriculture = $15 Billion
Housing & Community = $7 Billion
Education = $7 Billion
Energy & Environment = $4 Billion
International Affairs = $4 Billion
Science = $4 Billion
Government = $4 Billion

BroncoBeavis
08-06-2014, 12:37 PM
Oh look, more proof of your ignorance. I'll give you a hint: 17% on defense? total bull**** (even officially, not counting redirected funds).

Can you find out why and report back to the group?

Oh look, CBPP uses a number that's pretty close as well.

http://www.cbpp.org/images/cms/policybasics-wheretaxdollarsgo-f1.png

Except they lump in foreign aid and get 19%. So the reality still stands...

Long-term trillion dollar deficits can't be 'solved' by cuts to a military that doesn't even spend a trillion dollars. I'm not opposed to some meaningful military cuts, alongside many other cuts to other parts of the federal budget... but the Proggie Meme of "Cut duh miltry and all duh forin aid! Then Soshusecurty is fine!" doesn't hold an ounce of water.

Fedaykin
08-06-2014, 02:33 PM
Oh look, CBPP uses a number that's pretty close as well.

http://www.cbpp.org/images/cms/policybasics-wheretaxdollarsgo-f1.png

Except they lump in foreign aid and get 19%. So the reality still stands...

Long-term trillion dollar deficits can't be 'solved' by cuts to a military that doesn't even spend a trillion dollars. I'm not opposed to some meaningful military cuts, alongside many other cuts to other parts of the federal budget... but the Proggie Meme of "Cut duh miltry and all duh forin aid! Then Soshusecurty is fine!" doesn't hold an ounce of water.

Still wrong. Try looking at the actual budget items, instead of the selective choosing that is typically done, and then report back. It's very simple, go to Wikipedia or some other source get a list of major budget areas, classify them yourself, and then sum it up. Actually try to engage your brain instead of just gobbling up stuff that is spoon fed to you.

BroncoBeavis
08-06-2014, 02:43 PM
Still wrong. Try looking at the actual budget items, instead of the selective choosing that is typically done, and then report back. It's very simple, go to Wikipedia or some other source get a list of major budget areas, classify them yourself, and then sum it up. Actually try to engage your brain instead of just gobbling up stuff that is spoon fed to you.

http://cbo.gov/topics/national-security

Defense spending constitutes a sizable share of all spending by the federal government, about 18 percent in 2013.

LIES. Dirty Government LIES! Only Fed knows the REAL amount we spend on defense. All other websites, liberal think tanks, and the federal government itself are in CAHOOTS! LOL

I'm sure Gaff can dig up an informationclearinghouse link you can use somewhere. :)

Rohirrim
08-06-2014, 03:47 PM
http://cbo.gov/topics/national-security



LIES. Dirty Government LIES! Only Fed knows the REAL amount we spend on defense. All other websites, liberal think tanks, and the federal government itself are in CAHOOTS! LOL

I'm sure Gaff can dig up an informationclearinghouse link you can use somewhere. :)

You do realize that almost half the DOD budget is hidden under other budget lines, right? What the CBO counts is the DOD base defense budget.

Plus, the net interest incurred on the military spending part of the debt last year was $63.7 billion.

Fedaykin
08-06-2014, 07:49 PM
You do realize that almost half the DOD budget is hidden under other budget lines, right? What the CBO counts is the DOD base defense budget.

Plus, the net interest incurred on the military spending part of the debt last year was $63.7 billion.

Of course he didn't realize. He's incapable of thinking for himself.

barryr
08-07-2014, 07:17 AM
The country is a mess and so is the world. Glad we keep getting more and more in debt with nothing to show for it.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
08-07-2014, 07:44 AM
Of course he didn't realize. He's incapable of thinking for himself.

Beavis is the poster boy for the whole Internet "never have to admit you're wrong about anything" generation.

Otherwise, how can he show his face around here after getting his ass handed to him by Roh and yourself on this thread?

BroncoBeavis
08-07-2014, 08:04 AM
You do realize that almost half the DOD budget is hidden under other budget lines, right? What the CBO counts is the DOD base defense budget.

Yeah, no. Look at the pie chart. There's literally no room for you to say DOD is really eating up twice what the Congressional Budget Office says. I'm sure, just like the last time Fed pulled this trick, I'll get a link to some hack website trying to force us to immediately accrue all fantasmically hippie-professor-projected military costs over the coming decades. Even though you guys never account for anything else in that manner. Only the things you don't like.

Plus, the net interest incurred on the military spending part of the debt last year was $63.7 billion.

More bull**** parlor tricks. Every ounce of Democratic spending could be accounted for this same way. "Medicare is costing us much more than claimed, because debt interest!" Words you'll never hear coming from a Democratic mouth.

Interest is the penalty for all debt, not just the debt you don't like.

BroncoBeavis
08-07-2014, 08:10 AM
Of course he didn't realize. He's incapable of thinking for himself.

Is this going to be that time where you lectured me about Iraq/Afghan war spending because of some hack website you read, contrary to every official or credible source (including CBO)

Then when I dug into their numbers, they were using numbers from another organization who had published total numbers pretty much in line with CBO. Then when I dug further, we found out that your hack website was lumping in things like Homeland Security, Border Patrol, and TSA Screeners into 'war cost'

Do you really feel the need to be so fundamentally beclowned again? LOL

Rohirrim
08-07-2014, 09:05 AM
Yeah, no. Look at the pie chart. There's literally no room for you to say DOD is really eating up twice what the Congressional Budget Office says. I'm sure, just like the last time Fed pulled this trick, I'll get a link to some hack website trying to force us to immediately accrue all fantasmically hippie-professor-projected military costs over the coming decades. Even though you guys never account for anything else in that manner. Only the things you don't like.



More bull**** parlor tricks. Every ounce of Democratic spending could be accounted for this same way. "Medicare is costing us much more than claimed, because debt interest!" Words you'll never hear coming from a Democratic mouth.

Interest is the penalty for all debt, not just the debt you don't like.

Actually, the list was put together by a guy named Winslow Wheeler, a Republican working for the Center for Defense Information:

http://cdn.theatlantic.com/static/mt/assets/steve_clemons/Defense%20Budget%202012%202013.jpg

The question Right Wingers never ask themselves: The U.S. spends more on military than the next 10 highest spending countries combined. Why?

Garcia Bronco
08-07-2014, 09:42 AM
The President doesn't spend the Money in this country. Congress does. Can anyone name the two committees and their respective houses without looking it up? I gotta tell you that I doubt most of you can.

Peace, Love, and Understanding,

GB

BroncoBeavis
08-07-2014, 10:08 AM
Once again, we have DHS funding lumped in. So FEMA employees, TSA Baggage Handlers, Air traffic controllers, Immigration Agents.

All are now "The Military"

Bull****.

Then we have the usual debt interest shenanigans. How about this? End Medicare. Then there's no military 'deficits' and no new interest to be paid. See how easy that was? It was really all Medicare's fault all along. Not the military's. :)

and then maybe the closest line that has anything resembling a point...

VA... not department of defense. Provides no defense. And in Democrat speak, it's pretty much non-discretionary anyway. No Democrat has ever (or will ever) propose cutting VA's budget. So even if you were to lump retired veterans' proctologists into "defense spending" it offers you absolutely no realistic room for 'military cuts' so you'll have to look elsewhere regardless.

At the end of the day, the only real 'military' cuts to be had are in that $530 or so billion. Which is, as we've all seen, less than 20% of federal spending.

Rohirrim
08-07-2014, 02:28 PM
Once again, we have DHS funding lumped in. So FEMA employees, TSA Baggage Handlers, Air traffic controllers, Immigration Agents.

All are now "The Military"

Bull****.

Then we have the usual debt interest shenanigans. How about this? End Medicare. Then there's no military 'deficits' and no new interest to be paid. See how easy that was? It was really all Medicare's fault all along. Not the military's. :)

and then maybe the closest line that has anything resembling a point...

VA... not department of defense. Provides no defense. And in Democrat speak, it's pretty much non-discretionary anyway. No Democrat has ever (or will ever) propose cutting VA's budget. So even if you were to lump retired veterans' proctologists into "defense spending" it offers you absolutely no realistic room for 'military cuts' so you'll have to look elsewhere regardless.

At the end of the day, the only real 'military' cuts to be had are in that $530 or so billion. Which is, as we've all seen, less than 20% of federal spending.

The question Right Wingers never ask themselves: The U.S. spends more on military than the next 10 highest spending countries combined. Why?

BroncoBeavis
08-07-2014, 02:55 PM
The question Right Wingers never ask themselves: The U.S. spends more on military than the next 10 highest spending countries combined. Why?

One, you have to look at who our main rivals are. China and Russia. The 2nd and 3rd most formidable militaries in the world.

That's not to say we don't have more firepower than both . We do. But military pay and development costs also exaggerate the gap between us quite a bit, if you're only looking in pure dollar terms.

Both China and Russia can field the same number of men for much less money. Once you go down the list, pretty soon you get to Western countries who spend comically pathetic amounts on their militaries because they mostly rely on us.

So at the end of the day, do we spend too much on the military? Probably. But is it nearly so out of line as some people like to paint it, given the realities of the capabilities of our enemies, and the general uselessness of some of our allies? Not really.

Fedaykin
08-07-2014, 02:58 PM
Once again, we have DHS funding lumped in. So FEMA employees, TSA Baggage Handlers, Air traffic controllers, Immigration Agents.

All are now "The Military"

Bull****.

Then we have the usual debt interest shenanigans. How about this? End Medicare. Then there's no military 'deficits' and no new interest to be paid. See how easy that was? It was really all Medicare's fault all along. Not the military's. :)

and then maybe the closest line that has anything resembling a point...

VA... not department of defense. Provides no defense. And in Democrat speak, it's pretty much non-discretionary anyway. No Democrat has ever (or will ever) propose cutting VA's budget. So even if you were to lump retired veterans' proctologists into "defense spending" it offers you absolutely no realistic room for 'military cuts' so you'll have to look elsewhere regardless.

At the end of the day, the only real 'military' cuts to be had are in that $530 or so billion. Which is, as we've all seen, less than 20% of federal spending.

ROFL!ROFL!

The VA is not a defense cost? So benefits paid to employees to perform a government function aren't a cost of that function, eh?

The coast guard (DHS) -- a branch of the military tasks with policing and defending littoral waters -- doesn't serve a defensive purpose?

The border patrol (DHS) doesn't serve a defensive purpose?

Cybersecurity (DHS) isn't a defensive task?

Conducting a war (pardon me: Overseas Contingency Operations) isn't a defense cost?

Let me guess, none of these activities serve a defensive purpose and/or are costs from defensive purposes either:

* Pensions (more benefits!) paid to military personnel
* Gathering intelligence and investigating foreign threats
* Space, aeronautics & materials fundamental R&D
* Maintenance of the nuclear arsenal

(and that's just the easy stuff that anyone with even half a brain can pick out)

You're a joke BB, which is plain for everyone to see -- yet again.

elsid13
08-07-2014, 03:10 PM
The President doesn't spend the Money in this country. Congress does. Can anyone name the two committees and their respective houses without looking it up? I gotta tell you that I doubt most of you can.

Peace, Love, and Understanding,

GB

It really 2+2 committees, you need both the appropriators and authorizers before you can spend.

Arkie
08-07-2014, 03:13 PM
Both China and Russia can field the same number of men for much less money. Once you go down the list, pretty soon you get to Western countries who spend comically pathetic amounts on their militaries because they mostly rely on us.


I agree. We have more than 30,000 stationed in Germany, more than 50,000 in Japan including the United States 7th Fleet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_7th_Fleet). We have 23,000 in Italy and 11,000 in the UK. Israel is basically a giant US "aircraft carrier" in the sea of the Middle East. We have bases in Afghanistan, Australia, Bahrain, Brazil, British Indian Ocean Territory, Bulgaria, Cuba, Djibouti, Greece, Greenland, Guam, Kosovo, Kuwait, Netherlands, Oman, Pakistan, Portugal, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Singapore, South Korea, Spain, Turkey, and United Arab Emirates.

This ****'s getting expensive. How much do the European taxpayers pay to defend our soil?

BroncoBeavis
08-07-2014, 03:52 PM
ROFL!ROFL!

The VA is not a defense cost? So benefits paid to employees to perform a government function aren't a cost of that function, eh?

Next you'll show me where Social Security administration employees' retirement are paid out of the social security 'trust fund'. Oh, no you won't. Because they aren't. Are you going to make the argument that Social Security is less solvent than reported because it has employees that will need retirement? Nah, you won't. Because you account for things differently when you like them vs when you don't.

The coast guard (DHS) -- a branch of the military tasks with policing and defending littoral waters -- doesn't serve a defensive purpose?

Uh no. Pretty sure the Coast Guard spends most of its time on drug interdiction and contraband (law enforcement) and civilian rescue operations. But have your wet dream, and throw them all in. Congrats, another 10 billion. Disband it entirely, now you're 1% of the way to something resembling solvency. Oh and all of our civilian maritime population is now on its own.

The border patrol (DHS) doesn't serve a defensive purpose?

Sure. LOL The agency that can't keep Guatemalan schoolgirls out of the country serves as our first line of defense from invasion. LOL

Cybersecurity (DHS) isn't a defensive task?

DoD has its own cybersecurity arm for national defense. DHS focuses more on civilian infrastructure and law enforcement. But go ahead, take that 1 billion too. Shut it down. Congrats. You're 1.1% of the way there!

Conducting a war (pardon me: Overseas Contingency Operations) isn't a defense cost?

No idea what you're talking about.

Let me guess, none of these activities serve a defensive purpose and/or are costs from defensive purposes either:

* Pensions (more benefits!) paid to military personnel
* Gathering intelligence and investigating foreign threats
* Space, aeronautics & materials fundamental R&D
* Maintenance of the nuclear arsenal

As for Pensions, you can see that it's split out for all federal employees. The military, budgetarily, is treated no differently. Since the government spends quite a bit more on civilian retirees than military ones, you'll have to also start upping the 'real' cost of all your favorite federal programs as well. So we're back to you playing by two sets of rules.... one for spending you like, another for spending you don't.

As for the rest, you'll have to break that out for me. Much of it would already fall under the DoD's budget.

(and that's just the easy stuff that anyone with even half a brain can pick out)

You're a joke BB, which is plain for everyone to see -- yet again.

Says the guy still desperately trying to shoehorn his local Airport's TSA crotchgrabbers into the national defense budget. LOL

Requiem
08-07-2014, 04:38 PM
Beavis, the OCO.
(http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/omb/budget/fy2013/assets/overseas.pdf)
You are welcome.

Requiem
08-07-2014, 04:39 PM
Does the CBO include discretionary spending in the above analysis, Beavis?

W*GS
08-07-2014, 04:55 PM
The question Right Wingers never ask themselves: The U.S. spends more on military than the next 10 highest spending countries combined. Why?

Because that means we have the biggest cock on the planet.

Fedaykin
08-07-2014, 05:24 PM
Next you'll show me where Social Security administration employees' retirement are paid out of the social security 'trust fund'. Oh, no you won't. Because they aren't. Are you going to make the argument that Social Security is less solvent than reported because it has employees that will need retirement? Nah, you won't. Because you account for things differently when you like them vs when you don't.


Your gumby impression is wonderful as usual. Only in your lala land is funding agreed upon benefits to employees not a cost. I can understand why you are so desperate to not count it, but it's still idiotic and dishonest.


Uh no. Pretty sure the Coast Guard spends most of its time on drug interdiction and contraband (law enforcement) and civilian rescue operations. But have your wet dream, and throw them all in. Congrats, another 10 billion. Disband it entirely, now you're 1% of the way to something resembling solvency. Oh and all of our civilian maritime population is now on its own.


The coast guard is a military branch, whether you like it or not. In times of war, it is moved under the direct authority of the Navy and actively participates in combat when necessary. Guess what, most military units don't actively do anything for defense unless there is a need for their services. At least the coast guard does something with their down time.


Sure. LOL The agency that can't keep Guatemalan schoolgirls out of the country serves as our first line of defense from invasion. LOL


More utter sh*t. That they aren't good at what they do doesn't mean they aren't doing it.


DoD has its own cybersecurity arm for national defense. DHS focuses more on civilian infrastructure and law enforcement. But go ahead, take that 1 billion too. Shut it down. Congrats. You're 1.1% of the way there!


So protecting civilian infrastructure isn't defense eh? Only protecting military assets is defense? ROFL!


No idea what you're talking about.


The DoD base budget is around 550bn, with another 100bn (down from around 300 billion peak) for ongoing war spending. Ironically enough, the classification of those "overseas contingency operations" as NOT DoD budget (until recently) is just another bullsh*t accounting tactic to hide the true spending on defense.

Hey guys, those wars were fighting *totally* aren't part of our defense spending! Just like the compensation we provide the soldiers! *wink*


As for Pensions, you can see that it's split out for all federal employees. The military, budgetarily, is treated no differently. Since the government spends quite a bit more on civilian retirees than military ones, you'll have to also start upping the 'real' cost of all your favorite federal programs as well. So we're back to you playing by two sets of rules.... one for spending you like, another for spending you don't.


Of course pensions (and other benefits) for all employees are a cost to their respective government units. Only you are trying to argue otherwise, by lumping all treasury (handles pensions) and VA costs under non-defense costs.


As for the rest, you'll have to break that out for me. Much of it would already fall under the DoD's budget.


Not Funded by DOD:

* Intelligence Agencies (there's actually a specific line item for the CIA -- the rest? who the **** knows as they have black budgets )
* NASA (most of its budget is consumed with aeronautics research, not civilian science)
* DoE (designs, builds, dismantles, tests and maintains nuclear arsenal)

Of course, as Roh pointed out with his earlier post, there are also other defense costs (such as the costs to train soldiers in Iraq) that are not shouldered by the DoD.

And yes, the massive defense spending has contributed to our interest costs, just like other things. The only major budget item that hasn't is Social Security, which is about $3 trillion in the black (and is actually a major financer of the current debt).

Calling the DoD budget the total of what we spend on defense is utterly idiotic.

Roh's post earlier with a breakdown is a very good one.

BroncoBeavis
08-07-2014, 08:27 PM
I think we just have a major miscommunication here. Maybe we've finally come to an agreement on something.

I mean when I hear "military cuts" from resident Democrats, I had no idea we were putting TSA disbandment, or NSA decommissioning on the table.

What a brave new world of possibilities. :)