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View Full Version : How good is Seattle's pass rush?


Broncobiv
01-30-2014, 01:11 AM
All anyone talks about is Seattle's secondary. But to me, the more important topic is their pass rush.

How did the Giants beat the 18-0 Patriots? Pass rush. Brady had no time to throw and he was always under pressure. It didn't matter how good or bad NY's secondary was because their front 4 was all over Brady.

Does anyone really believe that if Manning gets all day to throw, he won't be able to pick apart Seattle's vaunted, legendary secondary? Of course he will. But if he is under pressure, it will be a bit more tricky. Peyton can defeat any defense if he has enough time. And it doesn't take much.

So how good is Seattle's line/pass rushing LB's? If they aren't great, then Surgeon Manning will have no problem pick pick picking apart the rest of their defense.

Blueflame
01-30-2014, 01:40 AM
All anyone talks about is Seattle's secondary. But to me, the more important topic is their pass rush.

How did the Giants beat the 18-0 Patriots? Pass rush. Brady had no time to throw and he was always under pressure. It didn't matter how good or bad NY's secondary was because their front 4 was all over Brady.

Does anyone really believe that if Manning gets all day to throw, he won't be able to pick apart Seattle's vaunted, legendary secondary? Of course he will. But if he is under pressure, it will be a bit more tricky. Peyton can defeat any defense if he has enough time. And it doesn't take much.

So how good is Seattle's line/pass rushing LB's? If they aren't great, then Surgeon Manning will have no problem pick pick picking apart the rest of their defense.

From his homework watching film, I believe Manning will have some idea from the get-go of which matchup is the one he wants to exploit. Within a few series, we'll be able to discern a pattern (one specific receiver/defender combo) he's targeting. No pass rush is likely to be significantly effective against a QB who already knows where he's going and can get the ball out in >3 seconds.

Agamemnon
01-30-2014, 01:43 AM
Their pass rush is good but not great. Nothing we haven't faced before.

Doggcow
01-30-2014, 02:35 AM
They don't have a Pot

Roast

TripleTilde
01-30-2014, 04:56 AM
All anyone talks about is Seattle's secondary. But to me, the more important topic is their pass rush.

How did the Giants beat the 18-0 Patriots? Pass rush. Brady had no time to throw and he was always under pressure. It didn't matter how good or bad NY's secondary was because their front 4 was all over Brady.

Does anyone really believe that if Manning gets all day to throw, he won't be able to pick apart Seattle's vaunted, legendary secondary? Of course he will. But if he is under pressure, it will be a bit more tricky. Peyton can defeat any defense if he has enough time. And it doesn't take much.

So how good is Seattle's line/pass rushing LB's? If they aren't great, then Surgeon Manning will have no problem pick pick picking apart the rest of their defense.

You're absolutely correct. If you give someone like Manning time, you expose your secondary no matter how good they are or how much they like to hold.

The thing that is starting to worry me is that thus game might be all about what the officials let the Seattle DBs get away with. Even if Manning has time, there might be times when he throws quickly based on recognizing what he feels is a favorable matchup. If Seattle is committing PI on those plays and it's not being called, it could throw off the timing.

canadianbroncosfan
01-30-2014, 05:50 AM
With how we seem to have mastered the quick screen passes, I'm not concerned with this at all. Our O-Line has been great at protecting Manning long enough for his to get the ball to any of the five eligibles.

Action
01-30-2014, 06:10 AM
I would imagine their pass rush will be a lot better than what they've put on tape all year.

BroncoMan4ever
01-30-2014, 06:30 AM
Surprisingly I'd rank KC pass rush ahead of Seattle's and theirs didn't do much against our line

ludo21
01-30-2014, 06:36 AM
Seattle comes with waves of guys. They have a lot of good to very good pass rushers, nobody GREAT.

The key will be to not let them substitute, which we already know PFM is well aware of. Going to be interesting if we can get the tempo moving once on offense.

Agamemnon
01-30-2014, 06:54 AM
I would imagine their pass rush will be a lot better than what they've put on tape all year.

Why?

TonyR
01-30-2014, 06:56 AM
The thing that is starting to worry me is that thus game might be all about what the officials let the Seattle DBs get away with. Even if Manning has time, there might be times when he throws quickly based on recognizing what he feels is a favorable matchup. If Seattle is committing PI on those plays and it's not being called, it could throw off the timing.

Everyones talking about the weather, but his is by far a bigger factor. This could even be a deciding factor.

Quietly, the Seahawks have achieved a 13-3 record and home-field advantage throughout the NFC playoffs by exploiting a loophole: NFL referees are reluctant to throw endless flags for pass interference and defensive holding, even if defenses deserve them.

"They look at it and say, 'We may get called for one but not 10,'" said Mike Pereira, a former NFL vice president of officiating who is now a Fox analyst.

...

Waiting for the officials to save you isn't a strategy. "If you think they're going to be called and expect that to be the solution to the problem, you're going to be sadly mistaken," said former Giants offensive coordinator Kevin Gilbride, who said the Seahawks' persistent interference happens on nearly every play. "They've perfected the art."
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303754404579310500005285822

Old Dude
01-30-2014, 07:00 AM
Seattle had 44 sacks in the regular season, tied for 8th-best with Green Bay and behind Carolina (60), Buffalo (57), St. Louis (53), New Orleans (49), New England (48), and Arizona and Kansas City (each with 47).

To my surprise, the Broncos had only three fewer sacks on the season than Seattle. (41)

In four games against teams with better sack records than the Seahawks (2 vs. KC and 2 vs. New England - one in the playoffs) Denver only gave up two sacks.

Pundits will argue, however, that the stats are skewed, because they don't reflect on the one hand how often Seahawks pass rushers hurried the opposing QB and on the other how often Manning avoided sacks by throwing the ball away.

I think there's some truth to the first factor, but we all saw a lot of games in which Manning was barely touched.

TonyR
01-30-2014, 07:09 AM
Pundits will argue, however, that the stats are skewed, because they don't reflect on the one hand how often Seahawks pass rushers hurried the opposing QB...

Yup, it's really more about pressure than sacks. But there isn't an official stat on pressures so sacks is the only concrete number we have to work with.

cmhargrove
01-30-2014, 07:10 AM
With how we seem to have mastered the quick screen passes, I'm not concerned with this at all. Our O-Line has been great at protecting Manning long enough for his to get the ball to any of the five eligibles.

I think they are going to be well prepared for our screens, and they are a fast defense. I expect several of our quick WR screens to get blown up, but even that has some value - kind of like sticking with the run game. If Gase is creative and patient, i'm sure we will see a way to counter their attacks on our screen game. I think that we are going to have some real openings to take 6-8 yard shots all day, and if Manning is on early, flooding the boundaries and forcing Earl Thomas to commit early could pay huge dividends (even over the middle).

This is going to be an exciting game with some great match ups. I'm not sure that it will be as fun as watching the Manning vs. Polamolu battle (Manning's first game as a Bronco), but it will be fun nonetheless.

Breaker
01-30-2014, 04:15 PM
Yup, it's really more about pressure than sacks. But there isn't an official stat on pressures so sacks is the only concrete number we have to work with.

Yes there are. Seahawks had 160 pressures and the Broncos had 170 this year.

KevinJames
01-30-2014, 04:17 PM
about as good as ours probably

broncosteven
01-30-2014, 04:19 PM
I would be more worried about having to face the San Fran pass rush.

bronc_fan23
01-30-2014, 04:21 PM
I think they are going to be well prepared for our screens, and they are a fast defense. I expect several of our quick WR screens to get blown up, but even that has some value - kind of like sticking with the run game. If Gase is creative and patient, i'm sure we will see a way to counter their attacks on our screen game. I think that we are going to have some real openings to take 6-8 yard shots all day, and if Manning is on early, flooding the boundaries and forcing Earl Thomas to commit early could pay huge dividends (even over the middle).


That fake WR screen TD pass to Welker against Jacksonville comes to mind.

errand
01-30-2014, 04:27 PM
I'm sure the Broncos have already figured that the officials will let the Seahawks play their normal "physical" game.....and that also means they should probably allow the Broncos to play theirs as well.

Agamemnon
01-30-2014, 04:29 PM
I think they are going to be well prepared for our screens, and they are a fast defense. I expect several of our quick WR screens to get blown up, but even that has some value - kind of like sticking with the run game. If Gase is creative and patient, i'm sure we will see a way to counter their attacks on our screen game. I think that we are going to have some real openings to take 6-8 yard shots all day, and if Manning is on early, flooding the boundaries and forcing Earl Thomas to commit early could pay huge dividends (even over the middle).

This is going to be an exciting game with some great match ups. I'm not sure that it will be as fun as watching the Manning vs. Polamolu battle (Manning's first game as a Bronco), but it will be fun nonetheless.

I doubt we will have much success with WR screens. I do think we can exploit them with some RB screens with the right formations.

Garcia Bronco
01-30-2014, 05:02 PM
Man their pass rush is so good that they can divide by zero.

TonyR
01-30-2014, 05:28 PM
Yes there are. Seahawks had 160 pressures and the Broncos had 170 this year.

Hook a brotha up wit a link?

andyh64000
01-30-2014, 05:41 PM
I doubt we will have much success with WR screens. I do think we can exploit them with some RB screens with the right formations.

I don't think screens worked much at all this year against the Seahawks but RBs in the flat or releasing after their protection assignment was occasionally effective as I recall. That worries me. I lost a few beers to carpet this season after the QB couldn't find anyone open only to dump it off the pass blocking RB for 15 yards.

cutthemdown
01-30-2014, 05:50 PM
Seattle comes with waves of guys. They have a lot of good to very good pass rushers, nobody GREAT.

The key will be to not let them substitute, which we already know PFM is well aware of. Going to be interesting if we can get the tempo moving once on offense.

Exactly. To be honest I have no idea what grouping Manning likes best. He may like the big run stopping front 3 they use, and not the so called NASCAR package they use on passing downs. I don't know though because I haven't watched anything but the SF/SEA games.

You are 100% correct though. Once Manning has the package he likes he won't huddle. I think the Broncos could go slow hurry up. Make Seattle put hand in the dirt for literally the whole play clock and trap whatever grouping we like on the field.

The thing about the Broncos offense is it's plug and play. They don't have to substitute. Broncos can throw out DT, Decker, Moreno, Thomas and Welker and leave them on the field for big chucks of time. Can Seattle say the same about their defense?

cutthemdown
01-30-2014, 05:50 PM
I disagree on not being able to use screens to the WR. If they go cover 3 or play off too much you will see quick throws to the WR IMO.

cutthemdown
01-30-2014, 05:53 PM
Hawks haven't had to contend with the WR and TE combo the Broncos will throw at them. The WR screens work for Denver because teams are scared to death of this offense.

Many teams just play a bend don't break and hope to force turnovers and FG. If the play soft to stop the big plays then Manning will do quick throws on early downs to the WR/TE/RB. Maybe not screens but quick hitters. If they will give 4-5 yrds like that on first down manning will take it all day long.

Dr. Broncenstein
01-30-2014, 05:53 PM
Pretty good. But no match for sustained no-huddle offense that grinds out the play clock.

andyh64000
01-30-2014, 05:53 PM
I disagree on not being able to use screens to the WR. If they go cover 3 or play off too much you will see quick throws to the WR IMO.

Maybe...but those plays would go for -3 yards all season long.

Just to expand on this...it is largely because of this stat (http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/team-yards-after-catch-allowed/2013/)

The Seahawks fly to the ball and tackle well.

canadianbroncosfan
01-30-2014, 06:07 PM
Hawks haven't had to contend with the WR and TE combo the Broncos will throw at them. The WR screens work for Denver because teams are scared to death of this offense.

Many teams just play a bend don't break and hope to force turnovers and FG. If the play soft to stop the big plays then Manning will do quick throws on early downs to the WR/TE/RB. Maybe not screens but quick hitters. If they will give 4-5 yrds like that on first down manning will take it all day long.

Exactly. It's what this whole game is based upon. We've had tons of success with WR screens, Seattle has had tons of success against it. I'm bias sure but I think we win this battle.

BigPlayShay
01-30-2014, 06:25 PM
There were at least 3 screens in that the Saints ran in the Divisional game that would have gone for big yardage, but were flat out dropped. Saints moved the ball really well, but shot themselves in the foot.

cutthemdown
01-30-2014, 07:16 PM
Maybe...but those plays would go for -3 yards all season long.

Just to expand on this...it is largely because of this stat (http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/team-yards-after-catch-allowed/2013/)

The Seahawks fly to the ball and tackle well.

I see it more like avg offenses got 85 yrds a game on them after the catch. They haven't seen the evil **** Manning, DT, Decker, Welker, Moreno and Orange Julious have in store for them.

They have a great secondary but the pass rush is dependent on getting the nascar package into the game. If they do that early we will run it down their throats for 5 yrds a pop all game long. Go ahead and let manning have 2-5, it won't work out well for them.

If the put the big grouping on the field I don't think they can get by our oline so Sherman better be ready to cover for a long time.

DENVERDUI55
01-30-2014, 07:22 PM
Hawks haven't had to contend with the WR and TE combo the Broncos will throw at them. The WR screens work for Denver because teams are scared to death of this offense.
.

I don't see Denver running many of them against Seattle. They don't play the type of D that those plays go big on.

Agamemnon
01-30-2014, 07:23 PM
Does anyone else feel like the Seahawks think they are going to be playing checkers while we are actually bringing a chess set?

Agamemnon
01-30-2014, 07:24 PM
I don't see Denver running many of them against Seattle. They don't play the type of D that those plays go big on.

Manning generally only calls them against certain looks. If they provide those looks I suspect he will give it a try.

cutthemdown
01-30-2014, 07:31 PM
I don't see Denver running many of them against Seattle. They don't play the type of D that those plays go big on.

IMO we never run that many of them. When i say we will do them I mean that if Seattle gives a cushion, or leaves 3 WR with only 2 defenders, and they are off, that he will do it.

He won't say wow they tackle to well to try that.

To be honest I have no idea lol I just know Manning has enough weapons that IMO Seattle is going to struggle. They like to subsitute so whatever package Manning fears less he is going to trap on the field.

Broncos WR IMO can go deep, the can run digs, the can cross, they can screen, they can do it all. They have a guy that is good at everything and IMO that will make it very tough on Seattle.

Meanwhile I see Golden Tate as a pretty fast player who isn't explosive and takes 20 yrds to get up to speed. Bailey can take him period. In fact I think he will. DRC will take Baldwin and we will see what Harvin brings. They may stick a zone on him unless he goes outside.

Our backers are quick and our pass rush is decent enough to make Wilson throw the ball without sitting back there all day.

The x factor is how many 3rd downs conversions can Wilson and Lynch pick up on the ground. That will determine a lot of who wins.

If it comes down to Wilson having to throw on 3rd down I like our chances.

cutthemdown
01-30-2014, 07:32 PM
Manning generally only calls them against certain looks. If they provide those looks I suspect he will give it a try.

They should some looks VS San Fran where I was like wow they should have taken the wide open WR on the LOS and grab what the defense gives. Sometimes they play up showing press then drop at the snap.

LOL Manning won't fall for that crap.

Vegas_Bronco
01-30-2014, 07:50 PM
We should use diversions to offset the edge attack...

http://jokideo.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Funny-gif-Epic-fail.gif

DENVERDUI55
01-30-2014, 07:52 PM
Manning generally only calls them against certain looks. If they provide those looks I suspect he will give it a try.

He tries to catch them Blitzing which Seattle rarely does. When they do it is Wagner in the Middle not an OLB, S, or CB.

cutthemdown
01-30-2014, 07:56 PM
Wagner is a great linebacker. I imagine he will make some plays along with lot's of other Seattle defenders. I just don't think they will make 2 plays in a row. Manning will convert and keep ball moving.

strafen
02-03-2014, 08:39 AM
about as good as ours probably

Not really

TonyR
02-03-2014, 08:44 AM
This thread was largely ignored, but it really turned out to be the most overlooked factor. Their pressure killed us. And it's the main reason their defense is elite. They didn't let Manning or our offense get comfortable all night.

SonOfLe-loLang
02-03-2014, 09:07 AM
This thread was largely ignored, but it really turned out to be the most overlooked factor. Their pressure killed us. And it's the main reason their defense is elite. They didn't let Manning or our offense get comfortable all night.

Yeah i def underestimated their ability to get pressure with 4. Their D line kicked the **** out of our o-line. Obviously, the Broncos arent THAT bad on offense, but seattle certainly won the day.

Smiling Assassin27
02-03-2014, 09:13 AM
This thread was largely ignored, but it really turned out to be the most overlooked factor. Their pressure killed us. And it's the main reason their defense is elite. They didn't let Manning or our offense get comfortable all night.

when everyone on the defense knows that losing contain on the qb is not something they have to even consider, it becomes a lot easier. the lack of any kind of scramble threat is cherry pie for this kind of defense.

TonyR
02-03-2014, 09:16 AM
when everyone on the defense knows that losing contain on the qb is not something they have to even consider, it becomes a lot easier. the lack of any kind of scramble threat is cherry pie for this kind of defense.

The Ravens won the Super Bowl with a relatively immobile pocket passer last year. And the Giants with Eli the year before that. So it's not like a pocket passer helmed offense is obsolete. The Broncos just didn't protect Manning well enough last night.

DENVERDUI55
02-03-2014, 09:18 AM
"Kill the head and the body will fall." That is what Seattle did. I have a feeling the coaches put too much time on Seattle's secondary when it was the DL that killed the OT's and caused Manning to have a bad game.

GreatBronco16
02-03-2014, 10:44 AM
Both our tackles went from being two of the best of the year to just utter garbage in one game. Clark and Franklin were abused all night long. Hell, J. Thomas actually held his blocks better than these two when he had to block.